Why Do People HATE Electric Cars?
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
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Personally my main two issues are that the charging infrastructure isn’t there yet. Also most electric cars seem to focus on being status symbols rather than being practical and affordable
The charging infrastructure could certainly be better... and is getting better. However, the fact that most people will be charging at home almost all of the time is a HUGE plus for electric vehicles. Not having to stop at the gas station once (or more) a week is very appealing to me.
@@BrianMelancon that’s the way you’re supposed to do it, plug the car in overnight like a phone.
what do you mean by status symbols of course there are luxury EVs just like there are luxury ICE cars. there are also cheaper EVS just like cheaper ICE cars. Manufactures build cars that they think people want and make the manufacture the most money so that is why you see more expensive EVs being made just like there are more expensive ICE cars being made. So your issue is with new cars being made not with electric ones. I wish people would stop making excuses to justify why they don't like something and not wanting change. Yes you are right charging infrastructure needs to improve but most people charge at home and don't drive more than there cars range in a day. You charge the car overnight and then you get up in the morning to a fully charged car, if you go to the gas station every night you can experience the same thing. I charge my car to 70% and only have to charge it once a week at home while I'm sleeping.
Unless you’re driving a clapped out 20 year old POS and instead you bought your vehicle new….guess what? You’re driving your own personal status symbol. Congratulations. Here’s your sign.
I don’t know about that charging infrastructure argument. Most people considering an EV are looking at it being a commuter vehicle to compliment their hybrid or gas vehicle. Charge at home. In my case my work has free charging stations for EVs. I mean if you’re in Texas where a pigeon shitting on an electrical line can cause rolling blackouts i get it.
How many people buy a truck that almost does everything they need it to do? Tommy is right. I’d rather have the truck that does what I need. If it doesn’t, I’m getting a bigger truck!!
So that means an electric truck doesn't fit your use case.. not that it's a stupid idea.
@@DrewHaughton I never said it was a stupid idea. I’m saying that Roman’s argument about a truck that does 99% of what you need it to do is a bad argument.
When I was working my remodeling company I consistently towed 5,000 lbs of tools daily back and forth from home to various jobs for years and would have been hindered by having to charge and monitor a state of charge constantly. On the weekends and holidays i would be able to take the family out in the same vehicle. Why would I want the extra hassle?.... so I could go 0 to 60 real fast. Wow!!..... what a benefit to my business. The problem with this conversation is people who really don't like big trucks want to push the benefits of an electric truck and the ones who actually use their trucks don't want to be limited by the people who really aren't truck people. Buy a $5000 lp generator and when the power goes out your house is automatically powered and you can still drive to get food and supplies.
Not sure if you will be around at this time but the world oil reserves will run out at 2052 no more manufacturing for your kid or grandkids everything you take for granted they won't get... doesn't that bug you
@@lesstevens2370 no it doesn't bother me but what does is a bunch of econuts and politicians trying to guilt and legislate our way out of this problem overnight with technology that doesn't quite muster up to our current needs. The light bulb wasn't created because the government made a law it was create out of necessity by innovation and a person's want for light without oil. So the only way this will work is by someone smarter than you and me to innovate a better way without government help and most likely their financial gain. If we allow our government to get involved it will definitely slow down the process of finding adequate alternatives to oil. So again...no it doesn't bother me because I personally can't change it and no matter how many ev cars you can put on the road and just alter the way we currently use fossil fuels it won't change things until the real brains work out the bugs of the alternative fuels. Funny with a world largely encompassed in water not one of the econuts or government politicians are wanting to talk about or push hydrogen....wonder why? Must not be enough money to be made padding their stock portfolios.
If you towed the 5000 lbs. of tools back and forth daily, that implies that it wasn't long distance towing. Electric pickup trucks are not bad for all towing. They are bad for long distance towing. They are very good for towing around town, and will save you a LOT of money on fuel. Charging at home is not a hassle. It's extremely easy, easier than going to a gas station.
@@dansanger5340yea I saw a video the ford lightning gets better mileage in the city then on the highway it works the other way around compared to gas wind drag is the biggest contributing factor to range loss not weight if your driving 30 40 mph around the city you probably can tow 230 miles charge up every night with out needing to monitor anything just set your charge percent to 80% and go to bed its 2022 computers do amazing things
Spot on. If I can't tow my camper to the woods. I'll keep my Cummins! Also I bought my 19' Ram 2500 Crew Cab 4x4 Cummins for $47,600 brand new! I can't even go out and buy an electric truck and if I could it will realistically cost me twice as much to purchase. Your talking about electric trucks like they are everywhere and easily obtainable. Lol. The average Joe isn't going to be driving around an electric truck for years.
How can you power the campsite with the Ford lightning if you are almost out of power GETTING to the campsite?! And if that campsite is 75-100 miles away from the nearest charging station? How do you get home? That is the 1% Tommy is talking about.
Roman, the Texas power grid is not "the worst" and unreliable. The grid is regularly servicing record loads with the countries highest mix of renewable energy resources, and at some of the most competitive rates in the nation. Once in a century events can and have caused problems for every electric grid in the US, and those lessons learned have made each stronger.
I love electric cars.....especially when they are stuck on the side of the road because the owners are ignorant.
Consumers had the same arguments about the model T, TV’s, Color TV’s, flat tv’s, home PC’s, laptops, mobile phone, smartphone. Give science and technology time to solve these problems. The free market has really only been working on EV’s for at most 10yrs. 10yrs from now a lot of these “problems” will be resolved.
Damn right and well said to! 👍🏻
We went from cars are for the rich to cars replaced horses for the majority in less than 10 years from the debut of the very first mass produced automobile. Now that we've reached the tipping point of over 5% of all sales being ev. The adoption rate will accelerate exponentially from here.
Even conservative estimates put the U.S. at over 25% ev market share by 2025. Yet if you look at all the new ev only factories, plus battery cell plants being built. It shows by the end of 2025 the U.S. will have enough domestic built cell capacity for 50-60% ev only sales.
I am beginning to wonder if making evs, ev cells and chargers. Is going to be directly responsible along with us building out solar/wind/geo thermal and renewable plants, plus mining for all of that. Will help in creating a new American based industrial renaissance. 🤔
@@4literv6 exactly!
If in ten years the problems aren't solved will the mandates go away? Because that isn't the free market
There are a few new Bolts for sale in my area for under $30K. To me they are the only affordable EV. Currently I think the hybrid Maverick is the best bang for the buck vehicle if you can get one at MSRP.
Wow, Roman what do you think most power plants use to power them?
in germany... nothing... they gona freeze this winter.... or pay russia WELL!
Completely depends on where you are. Nuclear , Wind, Hydro, Solar, Natural Gas . I get you mean Coal which FYI is only 22% of all power in US , and dropping.
@3L33T Your statistics are at least 20 years out of date. The statistics for 2021 according to the US government's Energy Information Administration are...
Natural gas: 38.3%
Coal: 21.8%
Renewables (hydro, wind, solar, etc.): 20.1%
Nuclear: 18.9%
Other: 0.9%
Years ago I read a book called “Get a Horse.” It was about the early days of the automobile, and most people thought motorists were stupid, since they spent so much time at the side of the road fixing their cars. The conventional wisdom was that getting a horse was the best way to avoid all of the auto breakdowns.
Guess the horse people were right. ICE is not going to last 2 centuries.
Well, now the cycles repeats itself, just in a different way
For me it’s about an electrical grid that’s not ready for everyone to have an electric car. Looking at California with its brownouts and blackouts for instance. Not to mention if you have more than one car.
Biggest difference is free market, horse and buggy were replaced because the market said they wanted a faster and easier way to get from point a to b. As a result other industries stepped in when they saw there was a dollar to be made and slowly everything switched over. Thinking you can legislate this kind of change or force it to happen rather than let the market decide is a very dangerous way of thinking. Cheap energy is what gives us as a developed nation the ability to create and innovate, or adapt which is what we humans are good at. Forcing that change as a result of policy is going to result in the opposite and cause a plethora of other problems. If they are better let them get there on their own as a natural result of them beating out the negatives of the ICE. I love electric cars but for my family of 8 not really an option at this point.
Exactly! Well said
YES, if I am spending my own money tens of thousands of dollars it needs to meet my needs AND wants. It has to meet the 99% and the 1% edge cases. It has to be just as good as my current vehicle in specs (I'm not paying for a downgrade). If I can only afford 1 vehicle it has to do it all. Obliviously if govt or pro EV folks want to buy me an EV as my main daily driver that's a different story.
I use to not be a fan of electric vehicles mostly because I'm not fan of Musk and the Tesla fanbois, but after giving a MacheE a chance, neither my wife nor I are ever going back to gas engines if we can avoid it. EVs are just fun to drive and I love charging at home. I have a truck which I use for towing short distances and hauling stuff from the hardware store, I do not need the towing range. EVs are not for everyone, that's a fact, but I do think a lot of people that hate them are more vocal in general.
You’re doing what I hope to do. Have an EV for every day use. A gas vehicle for long trips over 200 miles which is maybe once every few months.
I agree that Musk has turned a lot of people off of Teslas (I'd never buy one because of him), but thankfully we're getting lots of better BEVs coming to market every year now...
Picking up my BMW i3 in Colorado next week. Will be road tripping back to Virginia after a visit with friends.
Grant's road trip was a bad example, but also a good example. That same 1200 mile trip in my Model 3 LR is ~2.5 hours of charging, less if I can charge at a hotel overnight. Divide that into 2 days, that ~1 hour of charging is nothing to me. Even in a gas vehicle I would probably be stopped for at least 30 minutes for quick pit stops, but realistically more when stopping for lunch. But I'm also not an iron-butt type and I get really antsy to get out and walk around after 2-3 hours anyway.
But that just goes to show what a decent charging infrastructure and car can do. Electrify America and the F150 aren't sufficient for road tripping really long distances.
I think the biggest take-away from this episode is that "lifestyles" determine what vehicle(s) you buy. there are pros' and cons' to everything: electric vehicles are really efficient, with range drawbacks and gas and diesel are the inverse. Although, I think the most important thing to remember is that technology will evolve and progress w/ solutions and inventions allowing the "switch" to become easier in time.
I think the Best of both worlds would be a plug-in hybrid pickup hopefully someone makes it soon
Honest disagreement with well reasoned impassioned arguments on both sides, I absolutely love this podcast, the father/son repertoire works. Keep em' coming
I've owned 2 homes in my last 33 years of life and have yet to need to power my house from an external source . I'm sure it does happen but it's not going to be very common.
What if the lightning used the frunk for a small diesel with generator, enough to keep up with electrical use (like current trains). An amazing perfect FULL use truck for everything. Only use the diesel when long trip towing!!
I think your idea is good but I think the guys have said before that the current ev tech doesn’t allow for external charging and driving at the same time
When people talk about taking a truck and towing a trailer to Wyoming or whatever, that may be true, but Wyoming has 580,000 people and Colorado has like 5.6 million people. Meanwhile New York has 19.5 million people, New Jersey has 8.9 million, Florida has 21.2 million. The point is that many states are smaller, flatter, and way more densely populated. So if even a small fraction of suburbanites buy a Lightning in one of those states, it really doesn't matter that the truck can't haul a trailer 300+ miles.
And this is just Ford putting their toe in the water. The first iPhone didn't seem that great compared to a Blackberry, but now look at the cellphone market.
Great arguments both of you! I gotta say Tommy has a point with towing. Awesome episode.
For me, an EV has a place in my garage. We have a 1/2 ton gas 6.2L PU for pulling horses, carrying larger items, etc., my “lifetime” SUV for long remote trips, back country adventures, etc., and now have an EV on order for around town runs - which account for about 85% of all of our mileage. We’re lucky that our garage will (barely) hold 3 vehicles, and that our super off-peak power rates make EV charging a small fraction of the cost of fuel. If I could only have one vehicle, I don’t think I could make an EV work, unless I could reliably rent a gas vehicle suited for our particular need.
Hi Tommy i really like your arguments, but this time I’m agree with Roman
I don’t know how is in colorado, but here in South Texas every day i see more house installing Solar Panels on the roofs, and even if is expensive the solar panels finance them for 20 years, and that pretty much transfer your utility bill form your power utility company to the solar panel company, and that make the transition affordable for most of the home owners, but most of this home owner don Ghent the power wall because is way to expensive.
So on Romas point of view gettin a lightning could work very good because for the price of the truck even if you get the platinum your still are paying less than the power walls and you can use your truck, and in case of emergency you have electricity, now can you imagine been able to get the pro version even with the smaller battery.
I got no problem with electrics but (forcing) people to drive electrics and banning ICE cars is not a good idea ,its stupid
Hate the two party system because I vote Republican but don't agree with them on everything. Roman is spot on about the Leaf and Compliance cars setting back EVs. I was always under the impression they were slow, boring, and took forever to charge. Fast forward 10ish years, I now own a model 3 P and LOVE it. Electric cars are definitely the future. Now with that said there are still a lot of factors to consider and they may not be for everyone right now. If you need a heavy duty truck your going to get an ICE. If you leave in an apartment with no charging and compute to work that provides no charging it may be better to get an ICE unless your ok waiting at a supercharger. It really comes down to your lifestyle. Everyone should be able to have a choice and not be shamed or have their car/truck vandalized because of it.
I think the RAV4 Prime is the perfect family hauler and daily driver if you need it all in one vehicle. Having an EV for daily driving and a gas truck or SUV for the weekends would be the best setup.
Don't forget that solar also gets a federal rebate. I can say if you don't want to try an electric, don't bother. One day you will have to make a choice. It's just not know. Even for myself I could agree with Tommy on the 1% use, but again if overall I save thousands of dollars in fuel and maintenance of the vehicle that is pretty compelling. 1% of the time I want to tow my boat hundreds of miles. IF you have a home and multiple vehicles make one the EV to try, some time in the next 5-10 years EV will have range and charging speed (as well as infrastructure) it will be a no brainier choice. I love the waffle back and forth on both sides.
Electricity is cheap right now... but what happens when there are tons of electric cars and less gas cars? What... maybe gas goes down to a dollar and electricity is a dollar per Kwh? 🤔 Just a thought. Also on our APS plan during peak hours (which for us is 3pm to 8pm M-F) they charge us $6 per Kwh. So if you get home from work at 5pm and plug your electric car in. You will have a crazy bill. The way I see it. We cannot charge our electric vehicle during peak hours. Which if I need it to charge... makes me feel very tied down. 😕
I'm in the middle on this but my specific use case for a truck is towing my camper and long distance road trips. I have a GTI as a daily driver and we have an SUV for hauling the kids. Electric trucks aren't there for me yet, specifically for my use, but they are definitely in a usable place for at least half of truck buyers. A lot of the people at the campsites with smaller campers only travel 200-300 miles and would be fine with an electric truck. Our next family vehicle will be electric since it fits that use case perfectly of city driving. I don't know if I'd be replacing my car any time soon with electric as I'd like to start going to the track again and electric just isn't there for track driving either.
Man the electric hate is strong here. "let the hate flow through you" but seriously It's okay to try something out and be opened minded people. If you have the money for a new vehicle I think it would be great to have a daily electric vehicle if you can charge at home but I too would also want to keep one gas for long road trips. Most people could easily get by with a car/truck with 200 miles if they can charge at home every night. I know an electric vehicle in my household would account for 85% of my yearly milage while my gas car/truck would be there for doing long road trips until there is a better/faster charging infrastructure. I'll be first to admit i'm not sitting at walmarts for 45 min every 2-3 hours sounds awful.
I have nothing against electric cars and trucks. It's the way they are talked about. I want the truth about how green they are. You surely know what I'm talking about but you also skim right over the facts. The true long term costs are also skimmed over. I am 70 years old and have never bought a new car by choice. Buying used electric leaves a lot to be desired ( batteries). I drive very little these days and am a mechanic. So old used gasoline cars and trucks save me a lot of money. Please address these issues more often.
What is the cost comparison going to look like once the government stops subsidizing the electric cars and starts looking at how to tax them and the energy they use. A part of the 5 bucks a gallon we are paying for fuel today is road tax money.
If everything went electric tomorrow the government’s around our nation will have to find a way to tax our electricity or some other form of tax to creat and maintain our roads.
Not to mention our national power grid is nowhere close to being ready to handle a massive change to electric vehicles.
There is a lot of concerns questions I have about how electric cars will play out in our nations future.
Keep up the good work TFL
The kid is absolutely correct. No way in HELL I’m paying that kind of money and worrying about pulling my boat or gold cart. I’ll pull a trailer or boat more often than I’ll ever power my house. Nobody wants to pay $50-$100k for a vehicle that doesn’t do EVERYTHING
*golf cart 😂
I love the concept of electric but they just are not there yet sadly. They are focusing on the richer folks and the folks without kids. I have 6 in my family and they have yet to come out with something functional and affordable. P.S. Tommy is right about the solar panels, ours were installed a year and half ago for $50k. Our current infrastructure a hybrid truck makes perfect sense I think. None of the ranger sizes, we need the 6 seaters back that can tow decent camper and a family. That's why I am building out my 20yr old dodge. It sucks on gas but it fits us.
That started well but quickly went down the toilet. Nobody likes being told what to do, me included. But I wonder how many people, who say they don't want to be told what to do, wear a seatbelt in their car.
that power outage in texas it was a fi5o with the powerboost or what ever its called in the box,it was a regular f150,not a lighting
Many people I met doesn't hate EV, they just hate typical Tesla owners. 😄
How many actual Teslas really have those amounts of miles, just because you see a handful on UA-cam or some forum does not mean they all will do that, there are people who are having to replace Tesla batteries that are out of warranty no where near 200,000 miles at a cost of $22,000 dollars. Example there are Cummins powered Rams that have gone 1,000,000 miles but that does not mean all of them will.
I would agree with both of them# 1 is that majority of the time most people rarely will tow or use a truck like that for what a truck is actually many to do. And second the infrastructure is not there to handle ev vehicles but if you have a home then your okay. If you are like me too don't have just one vehicle you have three! I have my small sports car thati use as a daily driver to save from sworn because it gets awesome fuel mileage and I fill up with 13 gallons of gas. I have my truck for when I do need to tow and the weather gets really bad, and then I have an SUV when I do travel or go on a vacation with family or something else. To have an electric vehicle to do what most trucks( internal combustion engine) have been doing for the past 90 years is not going to happen over night give it at least 15-30 years and then you'll see a very big change. But for now I say if your going to tow anything big get a diesel/ gas truck but if you are just going to work and home get an ev or a hybrid. Then save the big tow rig for hauling a boat. As far as the hate goes is because most people are so set on their ways and are unwilling to change and therefore will hate.
Forget the big truck.. Rent one when you need one. The F150 will make for a great all around vehicle the rest of the time.
To expand on your history session a bit, you cannot leave out the fact GM sold out to big oil, crushed all their EV1s, and sold the battery technology to Texaco, who was taken over by Chevron. Chevron then made sure the technology was never used, and sued Toyota to stop using it on the Rav4-EV, which killed that EV.
As far as the long towing range, EV trucks are NOT there -- yet. However, that will slowly improve with the next generation of 800 volts and higher architecture (greater efficiency and close to 300kw charging speeds), super capacitors to take the highest strain off the batteries and regain the most energy when breaking or going downhill, and the addition of special trailers with battery packs below their beds. Those are being worked on now by several trailer making companies. Then finally get there with the much more efficient, lighter, and more powerful (while using less battery) axial flux motors. Mercedes Benz will be the first manufacturer use those in their EVs. They will do so on their next generation of AMG model EVs.
As far the current prices, ALL new products when first invented ALWAYS cost way more than existing. Flat screen TV's, cell phones, VHS, original TV's back in the 1940', even the first cars ever invented that used gas/diesel, that only had a handful of horse power and could only go 10 miles on a tankful, cost well over $100,000 when adjusted to todays rate. This will change in just 2 or 3 short years as competition ramps up, even from China and Vietnam, which will challenge the existing manufacturers to lower their prices. It's survival of the fittest. Either lower your price and adapt to compete, or become the next Nokia.
As far as solar, you can get $80 panels that produce 100 watts on Amazon. Buying 10, that's 1 kilowatt for power for $800, or 10 kilowatts for $8,000, plus a couple of thousands or so for the other hardware needed. So for a 10 kilowatts solar system (if you do it yourself -- it's not rocket science. Look at all the DIY on UA-cam) costs around $12,000. That makes 10,000 kilowatts EVERY HOUR during a good portion of the day, lets say from 10 am to 4 pm. then a little less than that with the sun and lower angles. So that's 60 kilowatts for those six hours, then another 40 during the rest of the day, for 100 kilowatts for the entire day on a good day. Even if it was cloudy, you could still get 50% (sometimes even more of that 10 kilowatts, or 30 kilowatts during just those hours.
Great point about the majority of owners and towing. Where I live I know a ton of people with a truck, and the vast majority, over 98% of them haven't towed a thing in years, while many never have. And the ones who have only done it once or twice. I tell them to do what I do -- rent a truck on those rare instances when you need to tow a very long distance.
"I tell them to do what I do -- rent a truck on those rare instances when you need to tow a very long distance."
This is the problem I have with self-righteous EV owners who feel it is their right to tell everyone else how to live their lives.
I have two criteria for an EV when I get one. If I'm not towing, I need to be able to make a day trip to see my family approx 3 hours way. This is not currently feasible without spending 30 to 40 minutes sitting in the middle of nowhere which takes away from spending time with them. I don't understand why it is wrong to take that into account when purchasing a car, and that the 5% of what I use the car for is irrelevant.
The second criteria relates to towing. We own a 5th wheel an go on multiple camping trips per year and also a couple long distance trips to visit family. There are two reasons I don't want to rent a truck. The first is I then need to get used to a new vehicle every time I tow, which is something I don't have to worry about if I tow with my own vehicle. The second is finding a rental company that doesn't specifically exclude me from towing..
I don't expect you to live your life based on my requirements, so why do you want me to live by your rules?
Some people can't help hating what they don't understand. In their world : Change = Bad
Sometimes change is bad...
@@MrTheguywiththemoney Key word is "sometimes", and one has to be knowledgeable enough to be able to accurately assess when that "sometimes" is. Far too many mistake their misinformed prejudices for knowledge.
@@robertshunter keep in mind everyone is allowed to have a different opinion on what is "bad"... we dont all think like you, doesn't make you right or wrong.
@@MrTheguywiththemoney Which was the key point of my first sentence, identifying a specific group.
@@robertshunter no you said other groups don't understand...
Question: Does the F150 Lightening HAVE to be wirelessly connected to operate? I can take an ICE truck and rip out the 4g/5g modem and the truck runs fine. Is that the case for an electric vehicle?
No…why would you even think that?
Chevette. The 1980 Chevette, was the only year that was looked on favorably by Consumer Reports. No rust, no problems, and sold it after ten years. A good runabout. A 4 door, black/grey. Did not learn of how it was rated, until after purchase. Ran great on 65 h.p. Rear wheel drive. Who would have thunk?? Ha ! 🔵
Much better than a Yugo. That is the best thing I can say about that.
Good video with concerns and opinions on both sides of discussion. Freedom of choice to choose your mode of transportation.
Unfortunately, we won't have a choice for long. Auto manufacturers are being coerced into switching over to only producing EVs. California is going to ban the sale of all new gas-powered cars by 2035. And as the biggest market, as California goes, the rest of the country goes. Soon, we won't have the freedom to choose a gas-powered car over an EV, because the government is coercing us into EVs with these policies
Roman is way off the mark on the electric truck vs towing issue. If you do any major towing, you’re definitely better off keeping your gas truck and installing a backup natural gas generator to your house. If you use the bed but never tow and rarely to never road trip then an electric truck could be awesome
Edit: clarified natural gas for the generator
You Guy's need to get your hands on a Rockwood HW 296 Premier Popup.
It's the largest one made in the world, try towing that and do the same test all over again with the 2 trucks.
The trailer only 2,750 lbs let's see how the lightning does with that trailer.
My Wife and own that trailer and own a 2020 F-150 Limited and go camping in Maine for a month in Aug, and to too to y saying you need gas truck to go Camping, we'll prove him wrong, and we won't mind sitting waiting to charge the truck.
IT, s 208 miles from our house on Cape Cod to the campground, if I figured it right we'll only have to charge 2 or 3 times, and there is a lot of chargers along our route so we're not worried about running 🏃 out of Battery.
We are getting a Lightning as soon as we can, My Ford Dealer has one on the lot that they are using for test drives, if I want it they are selling it in January, it's a fully loaded Lariat with the Max trailer tow package.
Here I am... broke, paycheck to paycheck living... I own a 2000 yukon xl... it's on E, I have enough gas to get to work and back, I want to drive my daughter to the nearest splash pad but I got no gas, so I have a multi- ton useless hunk of metal... and I keep thinking... if I had bought a cheap electric car in the forst place... it'd be charged from home and I'd have transportation.
Tommy’s US view is very slanted to his Geo Location. Tommy , dude, except in western huge states, no one is long haul towing with 1500 pickups. I love road tripping in a Truck, and having something that can haul gear to the beach, camping, and I’m in Texas, anywhere you would go is 1 charge away. Even in Texas , even with a camper. Look at a map. Houston Texas 200 miles to everything. San Antonio, Austin , Lake Charles , Dallas . And we buy the most trucks. As a Texan you’re wrong Tommy
If You Buy Electric Cars You Have To Go To Charge That Car Up For Like 72 Hours Because Electric Cars Doesn't Make Sense.If You Buy Electric Cars & You Have To Charge It Up That's On You.
Wow you're misinformed
Car people don't hate electric cars. We hate everything around them. The Ford Lightning is the best example. An encouraging MSRP, that nobody will ever be able to buy one for. Price gouging by dealers, a non-existent charging network, specifications that don't match reality, and religious arguments about the politics, instead of engineering solutions based on first-principles.
How does Roman go from saying "use the truck for blackouts to save your fridge" to "no one tows enough to justify hating the truck". How often do you need to save a fridge? Electric inverters to power a house can cost as little as a grand.... Why keep tools on your garage when you practically never have to fix broken stuff around the house? Just rent em 😂.
Tommy wins on this one.
I personally would rather not pay an extra mortgage payment every month to save under 400 bucks on fuel.
I would like to hear numbers on how many F150 owners actually ever tow anything.
F150 owner here, In 4 years probably towed about 4 times. I'm all for my next truck being electric and then having my 2nd vehicle stay gas for road trips.
I think it’s gonna take a very long time for more people to get used to EVs. It don’t think the world is completely ready for them yet.
If you value your time and want to road trip an EV, don’t buy an F150 Lightning. Buy a Taycan, Kia, Hyundai or Tesla EV which will all charge way quicker on a miles added per minute of charging basis. For proof watch this channel, Kyle’s Out of Spec and Tesla Bjørn’s channels for lots of evidence that fast charging efficient cars with decent sized batteries road trip at essentially the same speed as gas cars. This all assumes you’re driving a little faster than the speed limit in al cases.
You call it a ranch yet you removed the fences🤣😂 City folks can appreciate country living too, but EVs may not feel the same way.
The first time I saw an electric vehicle was in the form of the local buses. I could have said The first time I heard.. but that would be a lie as it made next to no noise, in comparison to anything traditional at least. I wonder how many people have been knocked over by electric vehicles in comparison. Especially when you consider how many people walk around glued to their phones.
Car racing enthusiasts may never want a replacement for a roaring engine. Another concern could be the soaring cost of electricity in many countries, outside of the US at least. I wonder if the batteries that potentially make some cars heavier than petrol or diesel cars, also pose more of a danger in problematic circumstances with a car out of control, but I suppose it depends on the situation.
Some media articles also mention heavier electric cars may ruin roads at a faster rate, leading to the possibility of increased taxation. A recent concern from last year is also the notably soaring cost of electric vehicle insurance in some countries.
Poor quality batteries increasing the likelyhood of fires or explosions have been noted for some time. There are plenty of examples on here of cheap or just poor quality car batteries going wrong, largely in china. Perhaps only a concern if you are willing to import cheap imitations, and if companies are able to filter out any chance of bad batteries within any batch becoming accidentally available.
Hydrogen cars were deemed a failure a few years ago, but some manufacturers are still vested in their future, although they are essentially electric but without the dreaded battery. Potentially a safer option, but I have no doubt that whatever the future is for cars, people will always miss the sound of a traditional car engine.
What I don't like about them is the range (which is still less than most ICE vehicles). The charge times are crazy long making long distance travel problematic. We keep hearing about how they are so much better for the environment, but the minerals used in the batter construction are mined which causes a lot of pollution. The battery packs last about 10 years before needing to be replaced and afterwards only about 10% of them are recycled. So the other 90% end up in landfills. A lot of places have issues with their power grids currently, but we are all suppose to switch to electric and those problems won't be worse? Finally, there is cost. I purchased a new vehicle 2 years ago and looked into EV's. The cost (at least here in Canada) for an equivalent EV was near double. So my choice was a nicely equipped ICE crossover or compact sedan EV with barely any options and very low range.
I found the same issues as you in Nova Scotia
I agree with Roman. EV’s have a place but are too expensive
One thing roman never ackloweged was where electricity comes from. he talked about gas coming from oil......... BUT electricity also comes from fossil fuels. Such as Natural Gas, Coal, and Oil...... EVs are not in able to compete with Gas/Diesel at this point in time. They are too hard to manage and take too long to charge. They will get there, just not there yet.
Why not have a combination of both ICE and EV? I think a lot of the hate that gets thrown at EVs is that they are being forced on people that either don't trust the technology (understandably) and those who like a good ICE vehicle- EVs are soulless vehicles. They're interesting now because they're relatively rare, but when they take a larger piece of the market they'll lose the appeal. Other than looks, vehicles will be the same. For example, the rivalry of a 5.0 Mustang GT, 6.2 Camaro SS, and 6.4 Challenger Scat Pack won't exist.
Plastic from oil is bad for the earth. I will not buy an EV for around town until the cost comes down. My Rav4 hybrid that I bought many years ago gives me great gas mileage (46) and we do many long drives since we are retired.
Never seen his dad so stubborn. Electric vehicles rule city driving. The charging times & charging Infrastructure is not there yet. No amount of money can buy me more time. Not having to dedicate time for charging is the only scenario that makes sense. If at work for running errands plugging in for a quick charge makes sense. When it comes to going on a cross country trip I’d rather not spend hours charging. Also I tow too frequently & a 100 mile towing range is unacceptable.
A few notes about TX's "unreliable" power grid.
1) The grid itself isn't deregulated. Quite the opposite. It is under the sole control of ERCOT.
2) According to recent news articles, the number of rolling blackouts triggered by ERCOT since 1989 is 4 including the '21 freeze. 4 in more than 30 years doesn't strike me as unreliable. CA has had at least 3 in a 20 year period (2000, 2001, and 2020).
3) Even our retail market isn't completely deregulated. Competition has both good and bad effects. My power company is a co-op established in the '30s. While they serve us well, if they didn't we be in trouble as they are allowed to be exclusive in their service area. Same for municipal & other special utilities.
4) I've lived in TX since '76 and, overall, our grid is well-run. Yes in particularly hot or cold times conservation requests can happen but there have been very few systemic failures.
5) Even with the recent addition of the most wind-produced energy in the nation, the balance between green and reliable has been good, though nothing is perfect. Renewable are nice if they work when you need them but they often don't since their output is unpredictable. Knowing this, TX uses renewables when we can but also maintains and grows our natural gas fired plants. Even CA has had to concede to this reality and they are desperately trying to not retire a nuke station that was to be taken offline.
Thanks for refuting that ludicrously dishonest line. I couldn’t believe he said it.
It can vary depending on your individual situation. I ordered a Volkswagen ID4. My commute is 60 miles a day, and there is a Walmart on my way home I already stop at twice a week anyway... With the 3 years of free Electrify America from Volkswagen, the big loser is the others stores I'll never shop at to again.
yes, that's where Walmart is shrewd and other store companies are missing the boat...
@@cbatiau2528 Exactly! I will top off my battery while I go grab some milk and eggs. twice a week. 45 min at EA will get me deep in the 80% range
I drive about 5,000 miles per month and spend pocket change to do it, especially with off peak charging. When everyone is bitching about gas prices I just laugh and burn my tires out of there, Then go to a parking lot sit in the AC doing my paper work with no engine running. Is it a missing gene that makes Rep so slow to not recognize change when its starring them in the face.
Tommy, GET OVER IT! 90% of truck owners don't even own a camper of any weight, much less so anything more than let it gather dust. No F series truck has ever met the needs of all buyers; the Lightning need not do so either.
My first car was a 1979 Chevette. Why aren't there cheap EV kits for ICE cars?
If you need to tow a lot electric is not for you yet. Plain and simple. If you are using it for around town then it can be a good option.
In the case of a power outage... the electric pumps at the gas station won't work either...
Roman is correct, we had 100 years to get gas where it is now, EVs will only get better. EVs already out perform ICE and are much more fun to drive. Towing will get there one day. I would love an EV Jeep, the would complete the garage.
Max payload the Lighting vs the diesel GM and make a series of delivery routes in city traffic and see which one empties first.
11:50 Smash the like button for TFL PEP Brothers Merch.
The biggest cause for EV hate is Americans’ bizarre Edge Use Case bias. The insistence on literally every vehicle in your household having 1000 mile, no downtime road trip capability makes no sense. Statistically speaking, that type of use is something the average American very rarely, if ever ACTUALLY does. Insisting on this capability is like saying we should all drive Uhaul box trucks because we might have to move house this year.
The simple fact is that the overwhelming majority of trips taken by American drivers are 100 miles or less. Add in the fact that a large portion of Americans have access to home charging and live in multi-car households that could theoretically keep at least one ICE vehicle and the “range/charging issue” argument completely falls apart.
If you are one of the few Americans that honestly DOES still require long distance, low downtime capability, then great. Go buy an ICE vehicle. They’re not going anywhere. But if you’re NOT one of those people, then it’s time to rethink your bias.
Cali where ppl go bankrupt and homeless thanks to the states high liberal taxes and social spending splurges, build back better lol...
For most people electric cars are too expensive n inconvenient. I live in the countryside n an EV just will not work for me. There’s almost nowhere to charge em n I don’t have a proper place at my house to charge em either. Until problems like these can be solved I’m sticking to my ICE vehicles
Folks who use gas should love electric cars, think how much gas demand they are reducing. Gas prices would be a lot higher if EVs had never happened.
Memes, anectodes, and conspriacy theories are easier to understand than reality. Many think that the US has infinite oil resources if we would just drill more. The fact is that innovations such as fracking and horizontal drilling have given the US a brief reprieve from an inevitable energy crisis and we must use this time wisely to diversify our energy footprint to more sustainable technologies.
Spending 50k on a house is a investment. 50k on a car is probably not.
I like EVs but they cost too much to buy. Good for around town. My used cheap truck sits in driveway unless I'm towing or hauling. I take road trips and camp/mtb constantly so daily driver is a minivan for gear a d sleep inside
I agree with people who complain about being forced. My biggest issue with electric cars is that I'm being forced to purchase them in CA eventually. That will be fine if they build up the infrastructure and give us high quality cars at a good price, but unfortunately, it looks as though when that day comes, I will have to downgrade. I can get a very high quality gas car for $35k right now, but if I want an electric car of the same quality (space, capability, range, tech) I need to spend twice as much. That would also be okay if I had a choice, but I won't when 2035 hits. That's a long time and I hope they find a solution by then, but I have doubts that there will be a meaningful improvement in infrastructure and value proposition by that time. I want an electric car, but I want one that costs the same and provides similar capability for the price. I understand you guys didn't want to talk about politics, but that really is a problem for those of us who aren't wealthy right now. I don't want to go from my nice SUV to a Nissan Leaf because that's all I can afford.
In 2034 buy a brand new gas one you'll be set for 20 years
EV's are too expensive and the Government mandates are forcing us to buy EV's and in CA they are taxing EV Drivers 30 cents per mile because there not getting enough tax revenue from gas sale tax.
I don’t hate electric cars but hate that I’ll be forced to buy one. Not by choice but government policy. I would buy one when its better then my ICE car.
I just lost dad at the end of the video Tommy won Tommy is right electric cars for the city gas car for real life scenarios it is not political when it comes to providing for your family still love TFL awesome channel you guys are real
This podcast summed up: EV technology is in its infancy. It’s an individual decision as to whether it is superior or not for any given application.
Kevin you are clearly wrong. EV tech in not in its infancy, because it works and well. Yes new tech will be developed just like there is a new Iphone every year or computers get smarter and faster. An electric motor is superior to an internal combustion engine the only thing holding EVs back are people. Question, would you say an old rotary phone is better than your smart phone? ICE cars have had over 100 years to develop and they still can't unlock more than 20-30% of the energy a gallon of gas has. Electric motors are 90% efficient.
@@chrishansel9324 it is in it's infancy when comparing years in use/development (you mention this yourself about ice having 100 years). It is also in it's infancy compared to how much more potential it has. This doesn't mean it's a bad thing just that there are improvements that can be made still. It hasn't peaked like ice has.
@@SasukeUchiha-zu6dw You and I have a different definition of infancy. Did you know that the modern electric vehicle has been around for over ten years and has gotten better every year. 10 year olds don't like being called infants. A 2011 Leaf got 73 miles with a 28 kwh battery pack or 2.6 miles per kw. My car is a 2020 Hyundai Ioniq EV it has a range of 170 and it has a 38kwh battery pack, so that is 4.5 miles per kw. In 9 years EV range has more than doubled and efficiency has gone by 100%. Show me an ICE car that has done that. Oh ya I tow too. Lose about 45 - 50% but so does an ICE car. Batteries and infrastructure need to improve but EVs are here.
@@chrishansel9324 I know they have been around 10 years yes we have a different definition but an EV won't get mad being called an infant as it's an inanimate object. EV fans tend to get mad though. I know they are improving and ice has peaked and won't really improve in a meaningful way. What many people are waiting for is EV to be = to ice in every way including charging times range etc. They don't want to downgrade on anything, they don't want to be forced into it before they are ready. That's the beauty of the free market.
@@SasukeUchiha-zu6dw I'm sorry got the 2011 leaf's pack size wrong, it is 24kwh so that means that it had a higher efficiency of 3 miles per kw. So efficiency only rose by 75% not 100% in 9 years still impressive.
Because people don't like being FORCED to buy a product that's not ready to replace gas.
I rather have multiple options instead of getting forced into it more options the better than just only one option I agree with it
@@Jbs6187 I would also say the Government does that too tells you what's best for you as well
@@Jbs6187 definitely
This guy gets it
Here is the thing, no one is forcing you into an EV. Yes, new ICE vehicles will be phased out of new vehicle production at some point, but as of yet I have not seen where ICE vehicles will be banned. If the average vehicle on the road is approximately 14 years old, even if they do actually phase out new ICE vehicles in 2035, that gives you until almost 2050 to be average in an ICE vehicle. Electric vehicles are still early in their development, things will get better with time just as they did and still do with ICE vehicles. Give it time, things will get better and at some point, it will most likely make sense for most if not everyone down the road. Given, I still see some horse and buggy’s on the road, so some will still hold on to the tried and true even when they make far less sense.
@@moarpwr4414 I live in New Jersey the Governor for New Jersey has said that ICE vehicles will be banned in 2025 I can't remember the year he said that they would ban them but he did say it so every state is different every state doesn't do the exact same things with other states
I like engines and I like motors, what I don't like is when the FEDERAL government forced the market to change rather than the public dictating the market.
If certain states want to pass laws restricting certain vehicles, then the citizens of those states are responsible for their choices. But most states are different. They have different economies, they have different infrastructure, they have different needs.
Unfortunately this is political and just like everything else the answer usually is, follow the money.
Right now, the public wants electric trucks so bad there is a 1 to 2 year waiting list for them. Millions of people have gotten line to buy an electric truck, payed deposits, and they still have to wait. How is that not the public dictating the market?
@@BrianMelancon The federal regulation (2035) that demands an end to conventional engines in passenger vehicles is the artificial market. The "demand" for electric vehicles seems high because it only makes up 1% of the market. And the wait list again is forced, what is being produced is in very small quantities. Like I said before, I like a few EVs on the road. I love the tech & theory behind all of it. But I don't want to be forced to buy something that I do not want. I feel the regulation deadline will be extended or possibly dropped. Europe had already requested a 5 year pushback because they cannot meet it. Just my 2 cents.
@@BrianMelancon So the government offering 7500.00 doll hairs for an EV is Not??? Sure helped the government create THE MARKET!
@@carlov.3017 Just say that you’re a conservative Republican that doesn’t like the government dictating what decisions people get to make, unless of course it’s the government telling women they are prohibited from making decisions for their own bodies and livelihoods - I’m sure you’re perfectly fine with that! Lol. Tell a woman she can’t have an abortion makes total conservative sense but telling someone they gotta slow down on beating up the atmosphere is such an abomination. Go figure!
Btw, the government isn’t punishing anyone from buying ICE products. Of course with the constant complaining of inflation and the price of gas, constant pollution from ICE vehicles, etc. the U.S. government would be smart to encourage a method that allows the economy to be more independent and less dependent on oil coming from other countries. Politics aside, EVs are simply more efficient and affective. They make too much sense that you’re rebelling against them because you’re not ready or willing to make the switch - but you don’t have to. Doesn’t mean they aren’t more efficient forms of transportation.
@@carlov.3017 I'm so glad people like you will be around when I finally get to purchase my electric truck. Otherwise, it'd be hard to sell my Hummer. I should throw a "Don't Tread On Me" sticker on it and raise the price a few thousand dollars. I am literally hoping people like you continue to think like you do for at least a few more years. You're awesome. Please continue!
At several points in this video, Tommy falls into the frame of mind that "People don't need that" or "People only need this". This is a large part of how the divide was created between pro-EV and everybody else. If the product makes sense, it will sell itself = do not presume you know what other people need. Also, in many people's minds the EV represents a loss of control in their life. You can get whatever liquid fuel you want from multitudes of vendors at what price you are willing to pay, also carry extra fuel with you in case you need it. With EVs, you have no choice & you Will pay whatever they want to charge you - sure, today electric fuel is mostly inexpensive, but there is no market control over that. As more EVs are sold, & the additional strain laid upon the grid, you will see electricity prices multiply.
I think arguing from a "needs" position as to the opposition like you stated. People buy and have plenty of things they don't need. But it's not anyone's say what others "need" or how they spend their money including govt.
Beautifully stated
The problem is a lot of the “EV represents a loss of control” is ICE proponents trying to use psychological tactics to convince people they have different needs than they actually have. There’s honestly more control in how people get electric than how they get gas in most places including solar, compare that to gas stations where Big Oil sets prices.
I just got my Tesla Model 3 and have been driving it around for almost a month. One thing that I have noticed is the range is nowhere near the EPA numbers. The build quality is also not the greatest for the price they charge for them. I am however very happy at using it as a commuter car to work, but would never want to take it on a long road trip. Time is to valuable and you only get so much in life.
I work with a guy that has a Tesla. His wife does too. He told me you must have a gasoline / diesel vehicle as well. You cannot only have electric because if you have a family emergency far away or have to haul ass away from some catastrophe / pending disaster you won't get the range with EV. I think EVs are great if you drive short ranges daily and don't mind spending $80K or more for a daily commuter. To each his own. I will keep rocking my RAM 2500 diesel.
I’m with Tommy on this one. If I want to tow 10% of the time, the lightning is absolutely useless 10% of the time and if I’m going to put 80k into a vehicle it had better be useful 100% of the time.
Amen
without a nuclear power grid electric vehicles are irrelevant.
I agree
Burning coal and gas to get green EV cars is counterintuitive and and a fraud on the environment.
Electric cars will not be viable till Nuke plants are widespread. It's the only way to make EV workable.
The public "hates" electric cars because they are being forced on the public.
If your life and wallet work with electric car then you are happy but for the rest of us let the best tool for the job do the job.
Long haul; diesel, comuter truck with towing on the weekend; plug in hybrid v8, turbo small displasment or hydrogen, commuter car; eletric
who is forcing a electric vehicle on you. Jesus there is 100 times more choices for ice
Difference in horse n buggy times compared to now is that you could still ride your horse (and still can), meanwhile now we are being forced through the almighty dollar.
Tommy is right on the 1% towing use case driving purchasing decisions. For example, I know a guy that sold his current gen gas heavy duty truck to buy a diesel because his towing range sucked so bad with the gas motor when towing his camper to and from the coast exactly 1 time per year.
Very much agree.
It’s one of the absolute dumbest fighting points..
96 % of Standard Truck buyers don’t tow
74% of truck buyers don’t haul cargo in bed. Ever lol
70% of truck buyers don’t take their truck off road ever
Lest we forget how many vehicles are sold that tow under 3500 lbs or don’t tow at all.
All your coupes , sedans , Jeeps , small suvs etc etc
Stay heavy duty or gas if you wanna tow.
But that doesn’t make the EV “not ready for mainstream lol”
Right! The vast majority of people I know with trucks have either NEVER had a trailer on it or had a trailer on it 2 times in the past 7 years... and most of em barely use the bed, you look under the tonneau cover and you'll see three 2x4s and an old coffee cup that have been in there for the last six months... I even know people that OWN a truck for the "just in case" scenario and you know what they did? They RENTED another truck to haul the trailer long distance cuz they didn't want to put the miles or wear and tear on thier own truck to keep the resale intact!
Agree with Roman, very few trucks ever see a trailer
@@phileasler5401 because you're polling all truck owners? Or is that narrative that's been implanted in your head?
Here's the problem, the $50,000 by purchasing the solar panels can eliminate the electricity bill. That is money that you will not have to spend. Purchasing the diesel did not change anything. Your needs will not change. The electric vehicle also lowers the operating costs so that difference also makes someone more liquid, and it is possible to recoup the costs from the difference.
If there is limited towing, that means a second vehicle is needed. Two vehicles can be turned into 1 unless you have 2 drivers for less than the cost of the 2 vehicles used. This also means lower insurance probably. What was lost? 2 passengers with the primary vehicle being a SUV or van. That van or SUV was probably purchased for the occasional hauling, which the truck will still do. That hauling also moved the efficiency of the gas-powered to the electric truck. The fact that Tommy needs to buy a trim and a range extender battery that only give 30 miles does not mean that all people need to buy that trim and battery. Towing package, software, and power required is $45,000. Used van that gives viability right now is about $30,000. There is also no subsidy. The truck needs to be at $15,000 to reach the full price. Remove the subsidy and that truck needs to be $7000 or less to run it. Once you are in that price range, the gas-powered truck is going to be the same as the electric truck with a lot more maintenance.
Also need to factor in battery pack replacement.
Solar panels don't eliminate the bill, when the sun don't shine ypur using grid power, and if ypu have gas powered anything in the house ypur paying for that, and if ypu use more power than ypur panels can make during the sun then ypur being charged that. And at night your on grid time cause ypu have no battery back ups at this time for most homes........
@@zacknelson8918 Your claim is that people have not even been paid after going solar. That is false. That is even with no battery backup. With a battery backup, your claim makes even less sense.
@@LucasLeCompteMusic Do you factor in the fact that your car is going to need the engine replaced? I've changed my fuel pump as well. Did you factor in your coolant and lubricant? Did you factor in the cost difference in terms of cost difference in fuel? Did you factor in the fact that you will need to replace spark plugs and the assembly behind it? Did you factor in the fact that you might need to replace the fuel injector? Did you factor in the fact that your car still has a computer inside it that might need to be replaced? Did you factor in the fact that you might need to replace your transmission? Do I need to keep going?
Pretty sure currently replacing those things on a normal car is cheaper than a 20k battery pack. Also pretty sure diesel machines are used to mine and transport the lithium that is in the battery. Also you have to look at this from the lens of someone living in a poor country. A lot of people can fix and repair older cars, that will be impossible with current EVs.
Just rent a gas truck Tommy for your once a year trip and enjoy the quiet fast ride and convenience of charging at home the other 99% of the time.
I actually touched a ev-1 in 1999 at Epcot and talked to a GM engineer. Ev driver for 10 years, Lightning Pro coming in about a week
Just chill. EV's and ICE can exist simultaneously people. There are pros and cons to both technologies after all. Your current living situation, finances and needs will dictate which works better for you as an individual. As time marches on however, I suspect EV shortcomings (price, range, charge time, infrastructure, grid limits etc) will most certainly be overcome and "eventually" supplant most ICE-based transportation. Give it time though... sheesh. I love both the current ability and future potential of electric vehicles, but these government mandated 5-10 year deadlines are ridiculously shortsighted and unrealistic.