Cmon let’s be real here… Tobirama is FAR out of pains league in terms of speed lol. Even without flying rajin he should be blitzing around pain if he is in fact relative to base hashirama/madara’s speed.
@@samiam9033 pain wasnt keeping up with naruto v2 cloak at all. at 4 tails he was already getting pummeled and when naruto went to 6 tails pain couldnt do anything but run as he got completely overpowered. and pains chibaku tensei aka his strongest move also got overpowered by naruto doing a partial bijuu transformation as he went to 8 tails. and that was less than halve of kuramas power which tobirama matches casually as seen in the fight against juubito.
@@samiam9033 Also 6 tails Naruto is confirmed to be weaker than Kcm Naruto by Kcm Naruto himself. When he claims he’s “stronger than when he fought pain” Tobirama was also blitzing around Kcm 1.5 Naruto so my scaling is very consistent. Pain EASILY gets speed blitzed by Tobirama.
Yeah I’ve decided that I think Pain has also become downplayed mainly by people who subscribe to Itachi winning, and while I would agree, I don’t like the reasons they give and it seems rather disingenuous
I think Itachi can win but it’s very situational. For example I’m sure we can agree he would perform far better if he replaced Jiraiya in the rain compared to having to battle all six simultaneously similarly to Naruto
@@remington_acr1651 Itachi winning against Pain is the very situational scenario* Itachi is specialized in finishing quick in 1v1 with one shots high chakra consumming techniques. Like his stamina isn't so much of an issue for him since he never relied on spamming shadow clones and attacks like Naruto or Jiraiya. 1 Tsukiyomi, 1 amaterasu or 1 Tsotsuka is enough for 99% of the verse. But when It comes to Pain there's nothing such as "one shot" him. First they are 6, they share their vision, can be brought back to life, and counter almost everything Itachi has.
Love how people just hate on then Yata mirror statement like Black Zetsu himself didn’t say it with full confidence while knowing people like Juubi and Kaguya existed
Zetsu was also wrong several times in the same fight. The Zetsu knows everything argument doesn't work because of this. Yata mirror is good if Itachi can maintain it. The problem is Pain can just sit back and wait it out.
@@treylearns634Bro the way it works ignores chakra defense and attack entirely, the only reason it should be denied is if someone overpowered it with chakra
I think Hashirama Tobirama and Minato could do it almost solely on their own strength. I’m glad you put emphasis on Hiruzen because his supporting cast is probably the best.
any of the 4 kage in their prime solo pain without problem. anybody relative to sennin mode naruto can take pain and all 4 kage are stronger than that.
@@takatotakasui8307 There are just no true feats that you can base this off of, all of his feats are stretched to the max I.e. "killer B states that he is the best genjutsui user" gets stretched to Shisui is the most powerful of all those that can weld genjutsu. It's obserd especially giving concepts we already know about shisui's genjutsu ability being ridiculous, thus it's a much easier extrapulation to simply say killer b is simply referring to his genjutsu ability rather than his overall power level.
@liamwheelerl890 The guy above your reply is taking a Shisui feat out of context, so his feats definitely do exist. Shisui is a Mangekyo Sharingan user with a lot of statements to prop him up. There's not a single MS user in the main series that isn't at the low Kage tier at least. On top of that, Shisui has hax similar to Minato. So why are you that surprised that Shisui is being rated highly? That's like complaining that Sakumo Hatake is getting scaled too high
2:25 That is up for debate with Deidara deferring to his "master". 2:31 Databook state Kisame is subservient to Itachi's will, ultimately, and Akatsuki Hiden indicates that Kisame would be killed in any serious battle. Even if it requires his higher dōjutsu, Kakashi notes that it represents his full power regardless. 2:44 Kakashi called Kakuzu (the one with the mask) the more troublesome, likely more powerful, member of the duo. Overall I would say each duo actually seemed to be one inferior and one superior, really. 2:45 They are not, and that is not the reason they are paired either. Sasori was paired with Orochimaru, but Deidara is not Sannin-level. They are paired to prevent defection, but it does not mean Pain thinks they can defeat each other. It is just an precaution to make it less likely. 2:55 Konan is arguably paired with him. Even if that is not his paired partner, that he does not have a partner does not somehow mean it is because the rest are about equal. He could just not need one as he is a controller of six, or the leader, so there is no risk of defection. 6:08 Might actually be stronger over all according to the birthday columns. 8:15 The Raikiri did not finish piercing through. Kakashi intended to run through both Paths but was "too late", implying that even two Paths together would be disabled by one complete Raikiri. 8:37 They are so weakened by that Edo Tensei I would not use it as confirmation of their living abilities therein. 9:30 Could just be showing off. 12:25 So could the Raikiri. Did not help when the Shinra Tensei is potentially fast enough to blast it away. 13:20 Feel two of six Paths potentially negating his ninjutsu would make his Water Release less effective than it would be otherwise. I think he might win if he resorts to making an Edo Tensei, though, which would be in-character. 15:12 Unlikely as every Uchiha with Sharingan can use genjutsu, and Fugaku was considered stronger than him regardless. 16:15 Yes it could. Time passes, he would grow stronger. The idea he is getting weaker also ignores the fact that Hashirama cells bolster physical eneriges and negates typical drawbacks from transplants. 16:55 It is just said if they are on a high-enough level, not that they need to exactly be on the same level. 19:40 I am not sure visual genjutsu works on Pain given Kakashi never tried it, and Pain can just "reboot" the paths regardless as he did with Jiraiya. That Kishimoto drew a lance does not mean Shisui uses it; Sakura is not an axe-wielder. The artwork is not canon. 21:29 Orochimaru stated that Hiruzen ten years ago would have just defeated him. He would be above the base Sannin by a significant margin, I feel. 21:54 Unless he can absorb Transformations themselves, which I am not sure, I think the Vajra Staff would be a good counter. Shinra Tensei has a limit as it could not push back Version 2 Naruto, either. 23:00 He was already making the seals before it was fired. 23:59 Itachi's true power was also not made known. He was holding back the entire time against Sasuke, Obito said he could have killed Sasuke at any time, et cetera. Even Kisame's true power was not shown until after Pain died. Technically Sasori's true power was not shown since he was under mental affiliation against the Mother and Father puppet.
I want to hear your thoughts on this. In Chapter 669, Gaara claims his sand isn't fast enough to avoid Madara's TSOs. Meaning he can't get Kakashi close enough to use kamui if the TSOs aren't removed. So Gaara couldn't have sent Kakashi within kamui range before Minato teleported away the TSOs. When Gaara lifts Kakashi so he can use kamui on the truth seeking orbs, Kakashi somehow ends up right next to Might Guy. Does this mean Gaara's sand outsped 8th gate guy?
Yeah so I think there can be a couple answers to this but what would say is that Gaara isn’t necessarily saying his sand can’t evade the TSO’s but rather it can’t evade either Madara or Guy’s attack (although he is likely only talking about one of them) and Minato responds with no worries and that’s when when we later see Gaara, his sand is out of Guy’s attack and the combo then was meant to rely on Minato’s FTG
@somerandomperson2626Gaara may mean that he isnt able to react with his sand to make a defensive maneuver while trying to get him there at the same time. Changing direction is always more difficult as speed increases.
@@1of1MaccSauceThen how Naruto catch him lacking with the shadow clone feints? Especially the end when he throws the smoke bomb and made his clones transform into rocks on the battlefield? He couldn't see it could he otherwise he would at minimum seen what was happening around him
Old man Hiruzen could be the only one who can't defeat Pain. Tsunade is arguably weaker than the Deva Path, but couldn't do anything else because she had to protect the people.
Bro did see the new statement comparing boruto's and Minato's ftg and it says minato can just teleport to anything infused with chakra within his eyesight or maybe his sensing range?? This shit amps Minato's ftg even more 👏🏽👏🏽🔥
@@wallywest7800 hell nah every Comment section and video I always see pain glazers and obito glazers making up feats and overestimating him. Itachi technically beat him in the show so I can see why people kind of glazers still anit right doe lol. But hands down the 1st hokage, pain/negato, and obito has the most glazing fan base in naruto with itachi being a honorable mention lmao
Pain can take down the entire Leaf Village. I don’t see Tobirama, Hiruzen, Base Minato, Pre-Rinnegan Sasuke, or Itachi to ever match that level of skill until after Sasuke gets the Rinnegan.
Yeah I'm pretty sure the Sanin should be relative to Hiruzen in base because Oro was and the Sanin are equals in base, but they all have their new forms that push them beyond their base forms
Pain isn't nerfed in the leaf village pain was nerfed in the rain village as he couldn't use any of his massive attacks to fight. The only thing that could maybe count as a disadvantage is the distance he has to cast pain bodies but not any where near a nerf of not being able to use half your bag of abilities.
Every single kage reign, except Tsunade would absolutely violate the 6 paths. 1. Hashirama solos 2. Tobirama solos 3. Hiruzen solos 3.5. Hiruzen dies, but has the help of Jiraiya, Gai, Tsunade and Kakashi in the village. 4. Minato solos 5. Only because of absentees why the invasion was almost successful. If folks like team gai and naruto were present. The paths would've gotten F'd 6. Kakashi (my dawg) dies. But naruto or sasuke no diff's 7. Naruto or Sasuke no diffs
I definitely believe nagato is much stronger than Itachi. But I don’t think it’s all that close in a 1v1. It’s kinda Itachi’s thing. We already seen how that plays out. Nagato has strength but he grew up diff from itachi. Itachi trained longer & fought many more battles. Nagato trained until what 16ish, fought Hanzo with gedo, jirayia, & Naruto then died. Itachi had much higher battle iq, & much more experience fighting tons more battles. Plus all the stuff at 4:06 is contradicted w the fact Itachi is a spy acting the part, & Kiseme is no where near itachi’s level. They aren’t paired together bc they rival each other. Kiseme has no known genjutsu res, itachi would kill him in a genjutsu point blank.
Having Tobirama die to the Kaku brothers is the most annoying thing about Kishimoto, he creates an interesting character or storyline then completely ruins it with something stupid
The strongest man in Akatsuki refers to Itachi. It says next time, "In pursuit of Itachi". The next chapter is chasing Itachi, which is all about Itachi. Pain is not even mentioned. Both Itachi and Naruto have separate captions pursuing each other. Obito didn't let Pain invade Konoha until Itachi was dead. Obito says no opponent could have stopped Itachi. Itachi says the same. Nagato has utmost respect for Itachi. Given a choice between watching Pain invade and Itachi fight Sasuke, Zetsu chose Itachi. This was before knowing about spirit weapons. And then called him invincible after seeing them. Itachi's power added to either Nagato and Obito was considered to be invincible I'm not even going to mention the feats of a weakened edo Itachi against a astronomically superior version of Pain. War arc power cliffing leaves Pain's power in the dust. Even Darui looks impressive in comparison. Portrayal, hype, and feats favour Itachi over Pain and Obito. And this isn't even the full list.
@@marwyn8152 You literally needed an mini essay just to glaze Itachi from your own head canon. The narrative has never showed Itachi being over Pain and Obito. Itachi is around there level and even so he's not beating them
@@marwyn8152 Stop, Itachi clarifies he wants to talk to Naruto not capture him. Pain was sent specifically after the 9 tails. Pain is shown to be the strongest in the Akatsuki in the Manga, Anime and Databook Zetsu never imagined Pain could be defeated and didn't understand why Obito even had a backup plan. Your Edo argument is weak and disingenuous. You are comparing a freely moving Itachi to a controlled Nagato fighting an ongoing 2v1? Come on now. In reference to the Akatsuki Pain is stated to be invincible and have power and charisma none of them can deny. This includes Itachi btw. Databook 3. It wouldn't even make sense for Itachi to be stronger narratively, why even spy if he can just beat everyone!?
You said that Pain doesnt have a partner, but I thought Konan was Pain's partner? She followed him to Konoha and she was there during the fight with Jiraiya.🤔
Obito isn’t included in jinchuriki capture and that’s the context and the only time would be Isobu, and that just means Pain > Tobi persona and Zetsu isn’t combative
The 1st could handle him, second is most likely done, the 3rd need alot of help kakashi, itachi, etc.. and the fourth raijin kajin can make things more favorable for him
The ONLY reason pain did what he did during tsunades reign is because of DANZO!! If Danzo never kills that toad and Naruto shows up on time with ma and pa… tsunade, safe mode Naruto, ma, pa, kakashi, the toads, are beating the ever loving stew out of pain! Or even if danzo and root HELPED the village certainly wins
Long story short hashirama stomps. Tobirama has a speed advantage but could potentially win. Hiruzen loses minato stomps and tsunade is a 50/50 depending on if she has to protect the villagers or not
Plus when Madara or whatever takes out the half of the 9 tails from Naruto Obito says that half can be replaced with the half Minato has in him. Replaced meaning Naruto had half in him to my understanding. @@SO6PDMSObitoUchiha
They all can beat him. But he can beat them too. The rinnegan wasn’t known until Pain killed Jiraiya. Hashirama is the strongest ever so he wouldn’t have a problem. He also had sage mode and could locate Nagato and kill him. Tobirama, Hiruzen, and Minato are gonna have to take on the 6 paths at once with zero knowledge and that’s difficult. I think they’ll win and beat Pain 9 times outta 10, but I doubt they prevent the village from getting blown.
Tbh, I think the Hiruzen with the Sannin is probably the more interesting fight to me when it comes to the third hokage, just because yes, the later hiruzen is supposed to be stacked, but...I mean...it's the three sannin, all together, and while yes, they are weaker at this point, as a team, they're still top notch.
None of the hokage except Naruto have the sensory capabilities to stop pain from nuking the village. Tsunade is the only hokage who can survive as a village. Every other hokage suffers massive loss of life. I would much rather have tsunade be my hokage than any other during the pain assault. It’s not about beating pain. It’s about mitigating the dmg he can cause and ensuring the survival of your top Shinobi and civilians. Post pain assault is a really dangerous time for konoha
@@Virhtue yaa no they would blitz pain before pain can do anything Considering the fact that how smart they are tobirama and Minato are worst matchup for pain As for hashirama pain wouldn't even dare to attack the village
Tobirama wasn’t too much weaker then hashirama I’d say in a scale of 0 to 1000 tobirama would be around 850 to 930 while Madara and hashirama should be 950 to 1000 tbh and also tobirama just doesn’t have the hacks everyone else has
Where does the “blitz tier above themselves” come from for the susanoo arrow and bijuu bomb? If that’s true, and the arrow and bijuu bomb are comparable, making them interchangeable, why did Naruto react to Sasuke’s arrows in their final valley fight? “Blitz tier” would imply that there was no chance Naruto would’ve been able to avoid or block those but he sends his TSO’s to block them like halfway between him and Sasuke. This means the Minato bijuu bomb feat doesn’t make him scale above KCM2 Naruto in speed, which is literally 80% of his kit, which is actually supported because Kurama directly told Naruto that he had surpassed Minato “a while ago” when he gives chakra cloaks to the entire remaining alliance. This is before going into BSM, and key words “a while ago” implies even early KCM2 or maybe even late KCM1 was stronger than or on par with Minato. Also the comparison with Obito doesn’t really work. Saying that Minato knew Naruto needed Kurama’s power to face Obito, while Minato himself beat Obito is very misleading. Minato beat YM Obito, a whole 16 years younger and one less Rinnegan than WM Obito that Naruto fought. They’re not in the same league, so furthering the idea that Minato is above KCM2 Naruto using their fights with Obito doesn’t work because Naruto fought a much stronger Obito.
True, but he’s pretty young there and considers how he is stated to be the most dedicated shinobi ever at training, his power growth and where he would have been is pretty loose
@Virhtue Hashirama, Naruto, and hokage kakashi just WAY too crazy. Tobirama and Minato way too fast and smart and have the AP for pain easily. Minato would teleport gravity sphere and tandem paper bombs would demolish it. Hiruzen has comparable feats to tobirama in combat speed as edo and hes more talented than tobirama. Him being stronger than tobirama is EXTREMELY likely. Tsunade gets dropped on her neck.
@ the same Obito who can just phase through all the attacks? The same Obito who can remove himself or pain from the battlefield at any point with kamui? Same Obito who was throwing hands with war ark kakashi one of the most lethal hand to hand fighters of his and Naruto’s time? Like cmon bruh Obito is more than enough for pain
Ok so hiruzen who is stated to be above tobirama loses, but pain wins comfortably still? Come on. I agree pain beats hiruzen but come on, why use different logic and leave out a bunch of things for tobirama and then wank pain when talking about hiruzen? If hiruzen loses, tobirama def does.
Bc hashirama beat the guy who nagato is using the eyes of? Unless nagato is stronger than Madara I guess. And the same reason Obito wasn't worried about pain is the same reason Minato isn't. Space time jutsu negates almost every nagato could do. No push, pull, or chibaku tensi available bc of the quicker abilities
@@Virhtue hashirama crushes all 6 pains and all their summons combined by creating a forest. tobirama and minato simply scatter some marked kunai around then blitz kill every pain body in an instant. im not saying pain is weak but hes severely overrated and has no way to actually fight those three.
Hiruzen fought a massively stronger version of Kurama than the one Sage Naruto fought with way worst backup. Full Kurama under control is on the same level of base Hashirama and therefore Juubito, so Prime Hiruzen can obliterate Prime Nagato with one blow.
@@greenbull_goatt It is said Bijus are weaker without a host because they can't control their power. So Hiruzen and some nameless shinobi pushed out of the village a massively stronger Kurama than the one Sage Naruto fought with the help of Kushina and War Arc Gyuki.
@@Virhtue The fact that hiruzen says "another one" when Kurama is prepping a bijuu bomb is nuts, like what the fuck did that old man did to deal with a full power Kurama bijuu bomb without teleporting it away like Minato?
Well hashirama is definitely stronger Tobirama I’ve never been sure of. Like lore wise he’s never considered up there as a hokage consistently portrayed as below everyone besides tsunade. But his feats in the war arc are kinda crazy. I think it comes down to kishi not understanding how much his series power cliffed like to him I imagine the verse power goes Six path/juubi tier this one should be obvious Pre six paths madara/hashi tier you can include bijuu sage Naruto here The peak legendary shinobi: This is where like the rest of the hokage (barring tsunade) sat, pain, obito, itachi hanzo etc Legendary shinobi tier: this is where the sannin most of the rest of the akatsuki and a lot of the current and former kage were But he didn’t realize he had certain characters do insane shit particularly through the war arc and wasn’t paying attention to just how cracked he made Kcm Naruto
@ I mean there were statements that saratobi was above him in his prime and minato has always been characterized as number 1 or 2 amongst the hokage, and hashirama is hashirama tobirama literally cucks down to him. Kakashi has post shippuden era feats and Naruto is Naruto so he’s obviously number 1. That leaves only 1 hokage who doesn’t have some lore or info that implys they are above tobirama and that’s tsunade Like I said war arc feats change things a little but before that tobirama was more portrayed as a genius in terms of jutsu creation not necessarily in terms of sheer power
It would seem more fair on the reigns before 3rd and 5th hokage reigns to have the entire Akatsuki or healthy nagato instead since pain while powerful a lot of the older villages have people on par with Madara or below but much stronger due to being a war village instead.
@ I have my own independent opinion on speed scaling to certain characters but u basically didn’t align with what I had thought…. Basically most Uchiha including Sasuke are faster & could react to 6 tails Naruto or above with ease & pain was running for his life!!! Shisui The Teleporter, & most other relevant Sharingan users would be able to read the style Naruto was using better than pain! Like you Said Hiruzen & Minato could combat/react to the full 18/18 Kurama to some extent while Pain was running from the 6/18 tails…Orochimaru already thought/ stated a beginning of Shipudden Sasuke was atleast 4/18 tails & by the 5 Kage summit hes Well above that & certain Uchiha are above Kurama in general as well as the fact that certain Uchiha > teenage obito or they could atleast replicate the same Feats…(Teen Obito Punked Pain & continues to do it as orange mask) Long story short before I type another Essay the Uchiha Blitz pain & all his fodder path’s Especially sick itachi, Shisui, Sasuke, & (idk what Fugaku would do) but there was a reason he waited til they all died to take action because even healthy Nagato knew better 💯 especially if he’s getting jumped which is GG if it happens…..THEY ALL beat Bee they all Beat Ay & they all beat Nagato & are more rivals to Obito who punks Nagato than anything.
Your scaling of shisui is disingenuous proof that is you taking killer bee saying verbatim shisui is “the uchias best genjutsu user” As saying him saying shisui is just the strongest uchiha capable of using genjutsu Be fr bro you know exactly what you are doing 🤣
@@Virhtue If you are the greatest does that not also mean you are the best? Most:greatest in amount, quantity, or degree. Powerful: having control and influence over people and events. Translation 🔽 Greatest in terms of the degree he can control and influence people and events aka genjutsu And in the statement it clarifies genjutsu user further proving its talking about genjutsu From the birthday column "You name checking the Uchiha's most powerful genjutsu user, Shisui the Teleporter?"
So you typically would however this doesn’t include characters who the databook hides their power, so for example Obito’s stats are all ? And unknown similar to Minato’s so it’s that no man in the akatsuki can beat pain and Obito’s introduction to display has power has yet to be seen
@@Virhtue Yeah, Boruto-era scaling clears anything from Shippuden, so Kakashi or Naruto in that era would wash Shippuden tier-characters unless they have hax abilities like Limbo clones against Kakashi. Other than that, Pain ain't winning. The village itself may still get clapped up but Pain would lose 100%
They would lose. Naruto only has sage mode and we know that age mode nsruto lost against pain even with prep intel so we disregard any feats naruto did after as pain>sage mode Kakashi ssid that naruto in base was stronger than him and we know that kakashi stays at the same strength level meaning Pain>sm naruto>base naruto>kakashi
you had the opportunity to do something really funny. Hashirama partner/strongest Jonin: Madara Uchiha Tobirama partner/strongest Jonin: Kagami Uchiha Hiruzen partner/strongest Jonin: Itachi & Shisui Uchiha Minato partner/strongest Jonin: Fugaku Uchiha also, Pain does have a partner. she may not be his rival, but Konan is his Akatsuki partner
15:10 bro that is blatantly false "Hes the strongest genjutsu user" means hes the best at genjutsu, not that hes the strongest uchiha who can use genjutsu Lets not be dishonest here
No that’s simply not how language works, you can even run it through unbiased systems like ChatGPT and it will tell you that this statement is drawing a quality of “the strongest” (upon Shisui) in comparison to the those capable of using genjutsu in the Uchiha clan”
@Virhtue no dude That would mean naruto is actually the strongest genjutsu user of all time because hes the strongest person who can theoretically lean 1 genjutsu. Which if you tried to tell anyone that, theyd look at you like you were crazy and say youre twisting words If thats how it worked, shisui would be called the strongest uchiha because they all know genjutsu But he wasnt. Because its really obvious how the phrase actually works.
First hokage caught most of if not all the tail beast when Akatsuki took years to do the same. Second has a lot of skills he can pull but not a master of any. 3rd lost to someone who pain could definitely beat. 4th Minato better get lucky to jump pain before he blows away all his kunai or the village 5th we saw the results 6-8 he'd definitely lose to them with Naruto or Sasuke alone in the village
Honestly i don't see pain beating itachi at all, but fair, as itachi would be implied to be much more relative to obito, while pain is clearly showed to be massively inferior to obito
1. Hashirama wins in like 30s, not even a question. 2. Tobirama and Minato (hokage version), these are probably the closest battles, since the power gaps are small, if they can figure out the coldown for pain’s abilities (especially Shinra Tensei) and capitalize the 5s gap, they would likely win, otherwise it will be extremely difficult to figure out the shared 360 vision and to combat his overwhelming abilities (Planterary Devstation, Chaotic Shinra Tensei, the replicating dog and so on). It will be 50/50. 3. Hiruzen will be defeated no matter what, Konoha at that time doesn’t have enough power to defeat Pain. Shishi(tho he is the biggest threat here due to Kotoamatsukami and body flicker), Itachi (no MS), Fugaku, Kakashi etc won’t do much to him and besides, Hiruzen doesn’t have the firepower/arsenal to match Pain, he’s on a different tier. 4. Tsunade gets stomped (we already saw that, even tho Pain didn’t actually engage her specifically).
All is well as long as tobirama sensei done treated fairly😂👍🏼
I always do
Cmon let’s be real here… Tobirama is FAR out of pains league in terms of speed lol. Even without flying rajin he should be blitzing around pain if he is in fact relative to base hashirama/madara’s speed.
I dunno about that, tendo pain was able to keep up and react to Naruto all the way upto 7 tails. Tendo is insanely fast aswell.
@@samiam9033
pain wasnt keeping up with naruto v2 cloak at all.
at 4 tails he was already getting pummeled and when naruto went to 6 tails pain couldnt do anything but run as he got completely overpowered.
and pains chibaku tensei aka his strongest move also got overpowered by naruto doing a partial bijuu transformation as he went to 8 tails.
and that was less than halve of kuramas power which tobirama matches casually as seen in the fight against juubito.
@@samiam9033 Also 6 tails Naruto is confirmed to be weaker than Kcm Naruto by Kcm Naruto himself. When he claims he’s “stronger than when he fought pain” Tobirama was also blitzing around Kcm 1.5 Naruto so my scaling is very consistent. Pain EASILY gets speed blitzed by Tobirama.
@@uteriel282Pain blitzed sage mode Naruto who is faster than tobirama. Tobirama was blitzed by kinkaku
@@reignjudgment1028Pain blitzed sage mode Naruto who is faster than tobirama. Tobirama was blitzed by kinkaku
I see we decided to wake up and decide pain>itachi today, no complaints here. Also the half of half kurama line was funny af
Yeah I’ve decided that I think Pain has also become downplayed mainly by people who subscribe to Itachi winning, and while I would agree, I don’t like the reasons they give and it seems rather disingenuous
I feel it can be possible for itachi to win, but it's an uphill battle with it being more likely for pain to win.
I think Itachi can win but it’s very situational. For example I’m sure we can agree he would perform far better if he replaced Jiraiya in the rain compared to having to battle all six simultaneously similarly to Naruto
@@remington_acr1651 Itachi winning against Pain is the very situational scenario*
Itachi is specialized in finishing quick in 1v1 with one shots high chakra consumming techniques.
Like his stamina isn't so much of an issue for him since he never relied on spamming shadow clones and attacks like Naruto or Jiraiya. 1 Tsukiyomi, 1 amaterasu or 1 Tsotsuka is enough for 99% of the verse.
But when It comes to Pain there's nothing such as "one shot" him. First they are 6, they share their vision, can be brought back to life, and counter almost everything Itachi has.
@@up1405 Exactly Pain is a terrible matchup for Itachi.
Your use of words and the clarity it illustrates is why I’ve subscribed. Never change. Best of luck to the growth of your channel.
Love how people just hate on then Yata mirror statement like Black Zetsu himself didn’t say it with full confidence while knowing people like Juubi and Kaguya existed
I’ve always said that the Yata mirror and how it’s described to function shouldn’t cap at databook three, I agree!
Zetsu was also wrong several times in the same fight. The Zetsu knows everything argument doesn't work because of this.
Yata mirror is good if Itachi can maintain it. The problem is Pain can just sit back and wait it out.
Yata miror has next to no feats of the caliber that most people claim. What is said is ALWAYS < Feats
@@treylearns634Bro the way it works ignores chakra defense and attack entirely, the only reason it should be denied is if someone overpowered it with chakra
@@treylearns634 Yup it's always hyped up.
Technically Madara and Tobirama operated under Hashirama's reign.
Pain is going to get jumped even as 6 bodies😭😭
I think Hashirama Tobirama and Minato could do it almost solely on their own strength. I’m glad you put emphasis on Hiruzen because his supporting cast is probably the best.
9 tailed fox assault Hiruzen or really any Hiruzen before that could do it alone too.
any of the 4 kage in their prime solo pain without problem.
anybody relative to sennin mode naruto can take pain and all 4 kage are stronger than that.
The reaching that is done with shisui on this chanel is hilarious
It's not that crazy really. Shisui was getting close to the Sannin level when he died, and MS Sasuke is also approaching that level
@@takatotakasui8307Y'all need to stop the glaze of a teen that lost to Danzo
@@takatotakasui8307 There are just no true feats that you can base this off of, all of his feats are stretched to the max I.e. "killer B states that he is the best genjutsui user" gets stretched to Shisui is the most powerful of all those that can weld genjutsu. It's obserd especially giving concepts we already know about shisui's genjutsu ability being ridiculous, thus it's a much easier extrapulation to simply say killer b is simply referring to his genjutsu ability rather than his overall power level.
@liamwheelerl890 The guy above your reply is taking a Shisui feat out of context, so his feats definitely do exist. Shisui is a Mangekyo Sharingan user with a lot of statements to prop him up. There's not a single MS user in the main series that isn't at the low Kage tier at least. On top of that, Shisui has hax similar to Minato. So why are you that surprised that Shisui is being rated highly? That's like complaining that Sakumo Hatake is getting scaled too high
@liamwheelerl890 It is true that he's kinda reaching with that Killer Bee statement, I won't deny that
W vid good consistency 🙏
Imagine when Hashirama sees his village destroyed by pain
Pain ia cook
2:25 That is up for debate with Deidara deferring to his "master".
2:31 Databook state Kisame is subservient to Itachi's will, ultimately, and Akatsuki Hiden indicates that Kisame would be killed in any serious battle. Even if it requires his higher dōjutsu, Kakashi notes that it represents his full power regardless.
2:44 Kakashi called Kakuzu (the one with the mask) the more troublesome, likely more powerful, member of the duo. Overall I would say each duo actually seemed to be one inferior and one superior, really.
2:45 They are not, and that is not the reason they are paired either. Sasori was paired with Orochimaru, but Deidara is not Sannin-level. They are paired to prevent defection, but it does not mean Pain thinks they can defeat each other. It is just an precaution to make it less likely.
2:55 Konan is arguably paired with him. Even if that is not his paired partner, that he does not have a partner does not somehow mean it is because the rest are about equal. He could just not need one as he is a controller of six, or the leader, so there is no risk of defection.
6:08 Might actually be stronger over all according to the birthday columns.
8:15 The Raikiri did not finish piercing through. Kakashi intended to run through both Paths but was "too late", implying that even two Paths together would be disabled by one complete Raikiri.
8:37 They are so weakened by that Edo Tensei I would not use it as confirmation of their living abilities therein.
9:30 Could just be showing off.
12:25 So could the Raikiri. Did not help when the Shinra Tensei is potentially fast enough to blast it away.
13:20 Feel two of six Paths potentially negating his ninjutsu would make his Water Release less effective than it would be otherwise. I think he might win if he resorts to making an Edo Tensei, though, which would be in-character.
15:12 Unlikely as every Uchiha with Sharingan can use genjutsu, and Fugaku was considered stronger than him regardless.
16:15 Yes it could. Time passes, he would grow stronger. The idea he is getting weaker also ignores the fact that Hashirama cells bolster physical eneriges and negates typical drawbacks from transplants.
16:55 It is just said if they are on a high-enough level, not that they need to exactly be on the same level.
19:40 I am not sure visual genjutsu works on Pain given Kakashi never tried it, and Pain can just "reboot" the paths regardless as he did with Jiraiya. That Kishimoto drew a lance does not mean Shisui uses it; Sakura is not an axe-wielder. The artwork is not canon.
21:29 Orochimaru stated that Hiruzen ten years ago would have just defeated him. He would be above the base Sannin by a significant margin, I feel.
21:54 Unless he can absorb Transformations themselves, which I am not sure, I think the Vajra Staff would be a good counter. Shinra Tensei has a limit as it could not push back Version 2 Naruto, either.
23:00 He was already making the seals before it was fired.
23:59 Itachi's true power was also not made known. He was holding back the entire time against Sasuke, Obito said he could have killed Sasuke at any time, et cetera. Even Kisame's true power was not shown until after Pain died. Technically Sasori's true power was not shown since he was under mental affiliation against the Mother and Father puppet.
Good job de-glazing the video.
The akatsuki being paired in 2s of equal power was baffling to me. That isnt implied at all.
Yeah I like this channel but he get's a lot of stuff wrong. The Shisui and Tobirama wank are extreme too.
I like this video. Thanks for uploading
I'm glad you enjoyed it!
You and sage are my life line yall get me through work stress free
quick like comment for the goat. i already know it's gonna be amaterasu
Yessir, love to see the support bro
I want to hear your thoughts on this. In Chapter 669, Gaara claims his sand isn't fast enough to avoid Madara's TSOs. Meaning he can't get Kakashi close enough to use kamui if the TSOs aren't removed. So Gaara couldn't have sent Kakashi within kamui range before Minato teleported away the TSOs. When Gaara lifts Kakashi so he can use kamui on the truth seeking orbs, Kakashi somehow ends up right next to Might Guy. Does this mean Gaara's sand outsped 8th gate guy?
Yeah so I think there can be a couple answers to this but what would say is that Gaara isn’t necessarily saying his sand can’t evade the TSO’s but rather it can’t evade either Madara or Guy’s attack (although he is likely only talking about one of them) and Minato responds with no worries and that’s when when we later see Gaara, his sand is out of Guy’s attack and the combo then was meant to rely on Minato’s FTG
@@Virhtue I'm still a bit confused. Perhaps I'm misunderstand your point? How exactly do you believe Kakashi was moved to end up right next to Guy?
@somerandomperson2626Gaara may mean that he isnt able to react with his sand to make a defensive maneuver while trying to get him there at the same time.
Changing direction is always more difficult as speed increases.
@ sorry if I've been unclear. I understand that. Really, what I want to know is whether or not the speed of gaara's sand scales to 8th gate guy
New sub 🤝🏾🖤
I really like those vids bro, but sometimes the scaling is a bit long when doin like 5 characters
Understandable, I just usually have tn lay a lot of groundwork for the interaction to not have headcanon or holes in it
@Virhtue yea super fair, just one voice. Feels like I heared the scaling before in other vids. Maybe timestamps? Dunno haha u doin a good job bro
There’s only like 3 … maybe 4 Kages at their peaks above Pain let alone Nagato himself … let’s be honest
Why so?
And the Rinnegan should be able to track objects thought out dimensions ( FTG) especially if he sees Tobirama is only down to FTG
@@1of1MaccSauceThen how Naruto catch him lacking with the shadow clone feints? Especially the end when he throws the smoke bomb and made his clones transform into rocks on the battlefield? He couldn't see it could he otherwise he would at minimum seen what was happening around him
Nah Pain gets washed
Old man Hiruzen could be the only one who can't defeat Pain. Tsunade is arguably weaker than the Deva Path, but couldn't do anything else because she had to protect the people.
Good vid thanks for all the info
Appreciate the love! I always try to put new information out there
Love me a great video like this right after getting off work
I absolutely love to hear this. 8 always love listening to videos at work so this makes me proud
Virhtue and TG uploading within minutes of each other?? We are truly blessed.
Nah it’s crazy, in sync for sure!!!
Pain got that Rizz fr. Nice Death Note music btw
Yessir, best type of music imo
Bro did see the new statement comparing boruto's and Minato's ftg and it says minato can just teleport to anything infused with chakra within his eyesight or maybe his sensing range?? This shit amps Minato's ftg even more 👏🏽👏🏽🔥
I do not like how much you’re trying to mimic the cadence of Seth 😂😂
Tired of the Pain downplay... I'd say Virtue was fair here in scaling him.
Downplay hell no it’s the opposite people either overestimate him or glaze him same with obito
@jaybud400 Tf where have you been?
@@jaybud400 Downplayed by people glazing Itachi like Virtue
@@wallywest7800 hell nah every Comment section and video I always see pain glazers and obito glazers making up feats and overestimating him. Itachi technically beat him in the show so I can see why people kind of glazers still anit right doe lol. But hands down the 1st hokage, pain/negato, and obito has the most glazing fan base in naruto with itachi being a honorable mention lmao
@@jaybud400 You literally just proved my point. LOL
I dont think any Kage (minus Tsunade and even the village still survived the pains assault) loses a single matchup against Pain. They beat him 10-0.
Ohnoki and ay might have a chance everybody else getting washed
honestly the issue with tsunade reign is that team guy was not there. Guy + Kakashi duo would probably win against pain.
Pain can take down the entire Leaf Village. I don’t see Tobirama, Hiruzen, Base Minato, Pre-Rinnegan Sasuke, or Itachi to ever match that level of skill until after Sasuke gets the Rinnegan.
Kakashi only wins because Guy is his top Jonin. Y’all are meat riding in the comments. There’s only 3 MAYBE 4 Kage that beat Pain alone
Guy is crippleddddd and Kakashi is way stronger
The only way I see sage Jiraiya being beyond sannin level is if the term only refers to Jiraiya,Tsunade and Orochimaru in base.
Yeah I'm pretty sure the Sanin should be relative to Hiruzen in base because Oro was and the Sanin are equals in base, but they all have their new forms that push them beyond their base forms
Akatsuki (including orange mask obito) vs madara in place of the 5 kage
I probably need to do an Akatsuki vs Madara in 2025
PAIN📈
Pain isn't nerfed in the leaf village pain was nerfed in the rain village as he couldn't use any of his massive attacks to fight. The only thing that could maybe count as a disadvantage is the distance he has to cast pain bodies but not any where near a nerf of not being able to use half your bag of abilities.
Every single kage reign, except Tsunade would absolutely violate the 6 paths.
1. Hashirama solos
2. Tobirama solos
3. Hiruzen solos
3.5. Hiruzen dies, but has the help of Jiraiya, Gai, Tsunade and Kakashi in the village.
4. Minato solos
5. Only because of absentees why the invasion was almost successful. If folks like team gai and naruto were present. The paths would've gotten F'd
6. Kakashi (my dawg) dies. But naruto or sasuke no diff's
7. Naruto or Sasuke no diffs
You talking about hokage Kakashi? Wasn't he stronger then his war arc self or is that just the boruto version?
I definitely believe nagato is much stronger than Itachi. But I don’t think it’s all that close in a 1v1. It’s kinda Itachi’s thing.
We already seen how that plays out. Nagato has strength but he grew up diff from itachi. Itachi trained longer & fought many more battles. Nagato trained until what 16ish, fought Hanzo with gedo, jirayia, & Naruto then died. Itachi had much higher battle iq, & much more experience fighting tons more battles. Plus all the stuff at 4:06 is contradicted w the fact Itachi is a spy acting the part, & Kiseme is no where near itachi’s level. They aren’t paired together bc they rival each other. Kiseme has no known genjutsu res, itachi would kill him in a genjutsu point blank.
Why?
If we’re being serious and not bias …. It’s always been
Nagato
WM Obito
Healthy Itachi
__________
Pain
Sick Itachi
OM Obito
Nagato is not above WM Obito but I mean other than that I could get behind this probably
@@Virhtuewhy not, gedo mazo?
@@Virhtue OM Obito below Sick Itachi and Pain?
OM itachi is definity stronger than pain and healthy itachi bro
@@TheRyanverma go back to sleep bro you need it
Good video ngl tho im never debating a guy called "Lucifer" again. The comments taught me that😭
What😆
Having Tobirama die to the Kaku brothers is the most annoying thing about Kishimoto, he creates an interesting character or storyline then completely ruins it with something stupid
I don’t even think it’s ruining or a disservice to his character tbh
Dang it I waited too long on this one 😩 Had a thumbnail, auio recorded with TG and everything about a year ago but never got around to editing it.
The paths of pain are just an op jutsu of Nagato. Anyone with the means of locating the real him could end him rather easy
The strongest man in Akatsuki refers to Itachi. It says next time, "In pursuit of Itachi".
The next chapter is chasing Itachi, which is all about Itachi. Pain is not even mentioned. Both Itachi and Naruto have separate captions pursuing each other.
Obito didn't let Pain invade Konoha until Itachi was dead.
Obito says no opponent could have stopped Itachi.
Itachi says the same.
Nagato has utmost respect for Itachi.
Given a choice between watching Pain invade and Itachi fight Sasuke, Zetsu chose Itachi. This was before knowing about spirit weapons. And then called him invincible after seeing them.
Itachi's power added to either Nagato and Obito was considered to be invincible
I'm not even going to mention the feats of a weakened edo Itachi against a astronomically superior version of Pain. War arc power cliffing leaves Pain's power in the dust. Even Darui looks impressive in comparison.
Portrayal, hype, and feats favour Itachi over Pain and Obito. And this isn't even the full list.
Bros onto nothing. You'll glaze Itachi all you want but Nagato and Obito have vastly superior dojutsu compared to Itachi.
@@christianwafula9302 Narrative straight up denies this. You have nothing.
@@marwyn8152
You literally needed an mini essay just to glaze Itachi from your own head canon. The narrative has never showed Itachi being over Pain and Obito. Itachi is around there level and even so he's not beating them
@@marwyn8152 Stop, Itachi clarifies he wants to talk to Naruto not capture him.
Pain was sent specifically after the 9 tails.
Pain is shown to be the strongest in the Akatsuki in the Manga, Anime and Databook
Zetsu never imagined Pain could be defeated and didn't understand why Obito even had a backup plan.
Your Edo argument is weak and disingenuous. You are comparing a freely moving Itachi to a controlled Nagato fighting an ongoing 2v1? Come on now.
In reference to the Akatsuki Pain is stated to be invincible and have power and charisma none of them can deny. This includes Itachi btw. Databook 3.
It wouldn't even make sense for Itachi to be stronger narratively, why even spy if he can just beat everyone!?
You said that Pain doesnt have a partner, but I thought Konan was Pain's partner? She followed him to Konoha and she was there during the fight with Jiraiya.🤔
2:59 obito doesn’t have a partner either, white zesty doesn’t have a partner either
Obito isn’t included in jinchuriki capture and that’s the context and the only time would be Isobu, and that just means Pain > Tobi persona and Zetsu isn’t combative
minato glazing is on another level, other than the senju brothers no one can touch pain.
I think that every hokage regime wins if they are at their prime including Tsunade.
The 1st could handle him, second is most likely done, the 3rd need alot of help kakashi, itachi, etc.. and the fourth raijin kajin can make things more favorable for him
Y’all acting like pain wasn’t looking at him the whole time your not using all the context for a lot of the feats you discussed
The ONLY reason pain did what he did during tsunades reign is because of DANZO!! If Danzo never kills that toad and Naruto shows up on time with ma and pa… tsunade, safe mode Naruto, ma, pa, kakashi, the toads, are beating the ever loving stew out of pain! Or even if danzo and root HELPED the village certainly wins
Danzo has always been a menace
13:17 this mans battle iq and the fact that hes a literal warbaby will already trouble pain heavily
True
The Hiruzen glaze is on point
Nah for sure
8:50 Press X to doubt
Long story short hashirama stomps. Tobirama has a speed advantage but could potentially win. Hiruzen loses minato stomps and tsunade is a 50/50 depending on if she has to protect the villagers or not
“ Half of Half “ this guys trolling Naruto naver had only 25% of kurama 😭
Then prove it, give a claim to support he had exactly half?
@ I’m pretty sure it’s universal knowledge 💀
@ if I’m not mistaken minato and Naruto both had half of kurama … 50/50 …. yin and yang ???
Plus when Madara or whatever takes out the half of the 9 tails from Naruto Obito says that half can be replaced with the half Minato has in him. Replaced meaning Naruto had half in him to my understanding. @@SO6PDMSObitoUchiha
@@Virhtue
its stated many times in the manga and anime that naruto has half of kurama sealed inside him.
They all can beat him. But he can beat them too. The rinnegan wasn’t known until Pain killed Jiraiya. Hashirama is the strongest ever so he wouldn’t have a problem. He also had sage mode and could locate Nagato and kill him. Tobirama, Hiruzen, and Minato are gonna have to take on the 6 paths at once with zero knowledge and that’s difficult. I think they’ll win and beat Pain 9 times outta 10, but I doubt they prevent the village from getting blown.
Interesting, why so
If kakashi is around to fight pain during hiruzen vs pain timeline..then maybe might guy also around to throw hands?
I thought about making a Might Guy vs Pain video
Tbh, I think the Hiruzen with the Sannin is probably the more interesting fight to me when it comes to the third hokage, just because yes, the later hiruzen is supposed to be stacked, but...I mean...it's the three sannin, all together, and while yes, they are weaker at this point, as a team, they're still top notch.
Why so
Very objective analysis. Subscribed.
Welcome aboard! Thank you!
do the other konoha assaults with other hokages 👍
For sure
Someone in the comments totally fact check this UA-camrs video😂😂😂
None of the hokage except Naruto have the sensory capabilities to stop pain from nuking the village. Tsunade is the only hokage who can survive as a village. Every other hokage suffers massive loss of life. I would much rather have tsunade be my hokage than any other during the pain assault. It’s not about beating pain. It’s about mitigating the dmg he can cause and ensuring the survival of your top Shinobi and civilians. Post pain assault is a really dangerous time for konoha
Tobirama and Minato both have superb sensory abilities
And Hashirama when he's in Sage Mode
@@lorenzotuletta7713and minato when he uses THE SAME sage mode naruto uses
@@Virhtue yaa no they would blitz pain before pain can do anything
Considering the fact that how smart they are tobirama and Minato are worst matchup for pain
As for hashirama pain wouldn't even dare to attack the village
You didn't read the Manga...
🔥🔥🔥🔥
Hiruzen is him
Tobirama is the only interesting fight, but imo he still looses. If pain can beat the entire akatsuki he can beat the Kinkaku force lol.
Why so? The Kinkaku force isn’t an antifeat
Tobirama wasn’t too much weaker then hashirama I’d say in a scale of 0 to 1000 tobirama would be around 850 to 930 while Madara and hashirama should be 950 to 1000 tbh and also tobirama just doesn’t have the hacks everyone else has
Where does the “blitz tier above themselves” come from for the susanoo arrow and bijuu bomb? If that’s true, and the arrow and bijuu bomb are comparable, making them interchangeable, why did Naruto react to Sasuke’s arrows in their final valley fight? “Blitz tier” would imply that there was no chance Naruto would’ve been able to avoid or block those but he sends his TSO’s to block them like halfway between him and Sasuke.
This means the Minato bijuu bomb feat doesn’t make him scale above KCM2 Naruto in speed, which is literally 80% of his kit, which is actually supported because Kurama directly told Naruto that he had surpassed Minato “a while ago” when he gives chakra cloaks to the entire remaining alliance. This is before going into BSM, and key words “a while ago” implies even early KCM2 or maybe even late KCM1 was stronger than or on par with Minato.
Also the comparison with Obito doesn’t really work. Saying that Minato knew Naruto needed Kurama’s power to face Obito, while Minato himself beat Obito is very misleading. Minato beat YM Obito, a whole 16 years younger and one less Rinnegan than WM Obito that Naruto fought. They’re not in the same league, so furthering the idea that Minato is above KCM2 Naruto using their fights with Obito doesn’t work because Naruto fought a much stronger Obito.
This is peak content. Truly virtuous.
I see what you did there, fire!
bro forgot about guy sensei in the hiruzen fight
True, but he’s pretty young there and considers how he is stated to be the most dedicated shinobi ever at training, his power growth and where he would have been is pretty loose
Shisui is way superior than Pain: faster than Minato, superior Genjutsus of all. Wtf ...
Why is he faster than Minato?
I honestly think all the hokage alone at the time they were kage win, except Tsunade if you think she got stronger for the war.
Why so?
@Virhtue Hashirama, Naruto, and hokage kakashi just WAY too crazy. Tobirama and Minato way too fast and smart and have the AP for pain easily. Minato would teleport gravity sphere and tandem paper bombs would demolish it. Hiruzen has comparable feats to tobirama in combat speed as edo and hes more talented than tobirama. Him being stronger than tobirama is EXTREMELY likely. Tsunade gets dropped on her neck.
Im sure the 3rd would try negotiating.
“You don’t have to do that ability bro, fr, your better than this”
Obito could beat pain but he’s got no equals in the akatsuki lol
Extreme doubt , obito is not like that
@ the same Obito who can just phase through all the attacks? The same Obito who can remove himself or pain from the battlefield at any point with kamui? Same Obito who was throwing hands with war ark kakashi one of the most lethal hand to hand fighters of his and Naruto’s time? Like cmon bruh Obito is more than enough for pain
@ kamui is borderline a shinjutsu when you really think about it. He’s just busted
guy vs 7 swordsmen
Ok so hiruzen who is stated to be above tobirama loses, but pain wins comfortably still? Come on. I agree pain beats hiruzen but come on, why use different logic and leave out a bunch of things for tobirama and then wank pain when talking about hiruzen?
If hiruzen loses, tobirama def does.
Still waiting for Sage Kabuto vs Nagato
Maybbebebebeeee
Why wasnt naruto and kakashi and tsunade explain cuz im stupid hehe
Hashirama stomps and Minato blitz him before he even notices what happened...
Why so?
Bc hashirama beat the guy who nagato is using the eyes of? Unless nagato is stronger than Madara I guess.
And the same reason Obito wasn't worried about pain is the same reason Minato isn't. Space time jutsu negates almost every nagato could do. No push, pull, or chibaku tensi available bc of the quicker abilities
@@Virhtue
hashirama crushes all 6 pains and all their summons combined by creating a forest.
tobirama and minato simply scatter some marked kunai around then blitz kill every pain body in an instant.
im not saying pain is weak but hes severely overrated and has no way to actually fight those three.
@@uteriel282
Bro the rinnegan can absorb chakra. But so can wood release. The fight between Hashirama and Pain is about who has the better hax.
Nagato vs Pain?
Hiruzen fought a massively stronger version of Kurama than the one Sage Naruto fought with way worst backup. Full Kurama under control is on the same level of base Hashirama and therefore Juubito, so Prime Hiruzen can obliterate Prime Nagato with one blow.
Nah I’m with you, I’ve said before nine tails attack Hiruzen is a monster
Hiruzen vs Kurama is filler
@@greenbull_goatt It is said Bijus are weaker without a host because they can't control their power. So Hiruzen and some nameless shinobi pushed out of the village a massively stronger Kurama than the one Sage Naruto fought with the help of Kushina and War Arc Gyuki.
@@Virhtue The fact that hiruzen says "another one" when Kurama is prepping a bijuu bomb is nuts, like what the fuck did that old man did to deal with a full power Kurama bijuu bomb without teleporting it away like Minato?
On Virhtue’s soul tsunade alone beating pain
Aye bro nahhhh nahh take that back
Well hashirama is definitely stronger
Tobirama I’ve never been sure of. Like lore wise he’s never considered up there as a hokage consistently portrayed as below everyone besides tsunade.
But his feats in the war arc are kinda crazy.
I think it comes down to kishi not understanding how much his series power cliffed like to him I imagine the verse power goes
Six path/juubi tier this one should be obvious
Pre six paths madara/hashi tier you can include bijuu sage Naruto here
The peak legendary shinobi:
This is where like the rest of the hokage (barring tsunade) sat, pain, obito, itachi hanzo etc
Legendary shinobi tier: this is where the sannin most of the rest of the akatsuki and a lot of the current and former kage were
But he didn’t realize he had certain characters do insane shit particularly through the war arc and wasn’t paying attention to just how cracked he made Kcm Naruto
What makes Tobirama seem below every homage other than Tsunade
@ I mean there were statements that saratobi was above him in his prime and minato has always been characterized as number 1 or 2 amongst the hokage, and hashirama is hashirama tobirama literally cucks down to him.
Kakashi has post shippuden era feats and Naruto is Naruto so he’s obviously number 1.
That leaves only 1 hokage who doesn’t have some lore or info that implys they are above tobirama and that’s tsunade
Like I said war arc feats change things a little but before that tobirama was more portrayed as a genius in terms of jutsu creation not necessarily in terms of sheer power
The narutop 99 artwork is not canon in so sorry 😭 it’s dope tho but sakura got a battle ax
Her having a battle axe has nothing to do whether it’s canon
Shino vs battles
It would seem more fair on the reigns before 3rd and 5th hokage reigns to have the entire Akatsuki or healthy nagato instead since pain while powerful a lot of the older villages have people on par with Madara or below but much stronger due to being a war village instead.
I mean maybe
Uchiha> Pain
Why so?
@ I have my own independent opinion on speed scaling to certain characters but u basically didn’t align with what I had thought….
Basically most Uchiha including Sasuke are faster & could react to 6 tails Naruto or above with ease & pain was running for his life!!! Shisui The Teleporter, & most other relevant Sharingan users would be able to read the style Naruto was using better than pain!
Like you Said Hiruzen & Minato could combat/react to the full 18/18 Kurama to some extent while Pain was running from the 6/18 tails…Orochimaru already thought/ stated a beginning of Shipudden Sasuke was atleast 4/18 tails & by the 5 Kage summit hes Well above that & certain Uchiha are above Kurama in general as well as the fact that certain Uchiha > teenage obito or they could atleast replicate the same Feats…(Teen Obito Punked Pain & continues to do it as orange mask)
Long story short before I type another Essay the Uchiha Blitz pain & all his fodder path’s Especially sick itachi, Shisui, Sasuke, & (idk what Fugaku would do) but there was a reason he waited til they all died to take action because even healthy Nagato knew better 💯 especially if he’s getting jumped which is GG if it happens…..THEY ALL beat Bee they all Beat Ay & they all beat Nagato & are more rivals to Obito who punks Nagato than anything.
@@JohnnyX225
Bros onto nothing
@@christianwafula9302 By bro u mean virhtue?
Kakazu superior to hidan imo
Your scaling of shisui is disingenuous proof that is you taking killer bee saying verbatim shisui is “the uchias best genjutsu user”
As saying him saying shisui is just the strongest uchiha capable of using genjutsu
Be fr bro you know exactly what you are doing 🤣
It would be wrong if I misquoted it like you did, but I didn’t. Even the official birthday columns state the same
@@Virhtue If you are the greatest does that not also mean you are the best?
Most:greatest in amount, quantity, or degree.
Powerful: having control and influence over people and events.
Translation 🔽
Greatest in terms of the degree he can control and influence people and events aka genjutsu
And in the statement it clarifies genjutsu user further proving its talking about genjutsu
From the birthday column "You name checking the Uchiha's most powerful genjutsu user, Shisui the Teleporter?"
Algo.
King
1:28 so with that statement do we take into account that he’s the Obito is the shadow head of the organization?
So you typically would however this doesn’t include characters who the databook hides their power, so for example Obito’s stats are all ? And unknown similar to Minato’s so it’s that no man in the akatsuki can beat pain and Obito’s introduction to display has power has yet to be seen
LeBron victims.
Kakashi? Naruto?
What about them, their era’s are too stacked and would each one shot blitz Pain, so it would be a quick conversation
@ fair enough😂
@@Virhtue Yeah, Boruto-era scaling clears anything from Shippuden, so Kakashi or Naruto in that era would wash Shippuden tier-characters unless they have hax abilities like Limbo clones against Kakashi. Other than that, Pain ain't winning. The village itself may still get clapped up but Pain would lose 100%
@@sirnetflix7162 i agree. maybe virtuhe can use other forms of kakashi or naruto to make it fair. For example wa kakashi and kcm1 naruto
They would lose.
Naruto only has sage mode and we know that age mode nsruto lost against pain even with prep intel so we disregard any feats naruto did after as pain>sage mode
Kakashi ssid that naruto in base was stronger than him and we know that kakashi stays at the same strength level meaning
Pain>sm naruto>base naruto>kakashi
Itachi - did 3 backflips before Killer bee finished his swimg
Pain - has power that no one can deny
Can never forget it
@Virhtue Yeah you legit repeated the pain thing like 4 times in 30 seconds
1 2 4 7 only
Kakashi wins. Why would you think he loses?
you had the opportunity to do something really funny.
Hashirama partner/strongest Jonin: Madara Uchiha
Tobirama partner/strongest Jonin: Kagami Uchiha
Hiruzen partner/strongest Jonin: Itachi & Shisui Uchiha
Minato partner/strongest Jonin: Fugaku Uchiha
also, Pain does have a partner. she may not be his rival, but Konan is his Akatsuki partner
🍳🍳🍳
15:10 bro that is blatantly false
"Hes the strongest genjutsu user" means hes the best at genjutsu, not that hes the strongest uchiha who can use genjutsu
Lets not be dishonest here
No that’s simply not how language works, you can even run it through unbiased systems like ChatGPT and it will tell you that this statement is drawing a quality of “the strongest” (upon Shisui) in comparison to the those capable of using genjutsu in the Uchiha clan”
@Virhtue no dude
That would mean naruto is actually the strongest genjutsu user of all time because hes the strongest person who can theoretically lean 1 genjutsu. Which if you tried to tell anyone that, theyd look at you like you were crazy and say youre twisting words
If thats how it worked, shisui would be called the strongest uchiha because they all know genjutsu
But he wasnt.
Because its really obvious how the phrase actually works.
@@VirhtueI’m sorry, but using ChatGPT to verify a phrasing of sentence is ass.
First hokage caught most of if not all the tail beast when Akatsuki took years to do the same.
Second has a lot of skills he can pull but not a master of any.
3rd lost to someone who pain could definitely beat.
4th Minato better get lucky to jump pain before he blows away all his kunai or the village
5th we saw the results
6-8 he'd definitely lose to them with Naruto or Sasuke alone in the village
Hashirama was showing there are levels to this
Minato is well within speed blitz level against this pain without FTG at all. This is a no diff fight for him.
Honestly i don't see pain beating itachi at all, but fair, as itachi would be implied to be much more relative to obito, while pain is clearly showed to be massively inferior to obito
Minato, 8 outta 10? comon Virthue, Minato 11 outta 10 times. we know this.
Yessirrrr
Unpopular opinion jiraiya solos pain if he knew secret. Like Naruto
Deva Pain one shots fodder jiraya
@ jiraiya relevant in boruto. Deva need backup
1. Hashirama wins in like 30s, not even a question.
2. Tobirama and Minato (hokage version), these are probably the closest battles, since the power gaps are small, if they can figure out the coldown for pain’s abilities (especially Shinra Tensei) and capitalize the 5s gap, they would likely win, otherwise it will be extremely difficult to figure out the shared 360 vision and to combat his overwhelming abilities (Planterary Devstation, Chaotic Shinra Tensei, the replicating dog and so on). It will be 50/50.
3. Hiruzen will be defeated no matter what, Konoha at that time doesn’t have enough power to defeat Pain. Shishi(tho he is the biggest threat here due to Kotoamatsukami and body flicker), Itachi (no MS), Fugaku, Kakashi etc won’t do much to him and besides, Hiruzen doesn’t have the firepower/arsenal to match Pain, he’s on a different tier.
4. Tsunade gets stomped (we already saw that, even tho Pain didn’t actually engage her specifically).