In a region with a language other than English, the confusion is even greater. The folder names are translated to native names on the desktop, but if you click on the path on the top in Explorer they are still in English, as they are in a cmd shell.
Ohhh yes. That drives me absolutely nuts. Especially since they like to drop the "My" in the translation, making it even more obscure. Also, even the explorer path can lie by now.
The absolute worst part is if those folders have accented letters in them. Like, imagine a folder named "Képek" (Hungarian word for Pictures) Good applications will save their stuff right there. But _most_ apps will instead do one of these: - kepek - k?pek - kÄ&$pek - kpek And eventually, every single variation will be created in your user folder by all those shitty apps.
@@hundvd_7 Well you kinda deserve it for giving your country's name to the worst programming naming scheme (Hungarian notation). It's just karma at this point.
Thanks, Leo! Retired dev here. Used MS products including Visual Studio Enterprise for decades! My battle cry was always "Microsoft! Stop! Helping! Me!" LOL! :)
@@WrecklessSandwichthere are still far more people who don't really understand computers but they're using them anyway than people who actually understand how they work. So it's no wonder software is "evolving" to serve the masses
Facts. Google just as much if not more than Microsoft. Bing and google: censorship ChromeOs, Android and Windows: making monopolies, data collection, required online account Google docs, slides, etc. And Microsoft 365: bundling text editing software with their cloud and other services. Google and Microsoft accounts: bundling with their other services.
Switching to Linux was the best decision I ever made. Gradually built up my knowledge to be able to usd Arch and its amazing to finally feel like im actually the one in control of the computer
I've done this for years for similar reasons. Microsoft's idea of "backup": Send a copy of your data to us for safekeeping and we'll delete your only copy.
Another reason I avoid saving my documents in the Microsoft default folders, is that the default folders are in the C: drive (where the OS is installed). I've learned since my first pc days, back in 1996, to always create at least a second partition where to save my documents, that is to immunize my documents in case a virus would infect my OS drive. And also I find it easier to backup my documents this way and clone or make image of my OS drive separately.
I had a machine with a relatively small windows drive, but a much larger second drive. So I wanted to store all my documents on that second drive. Really would be nice to easily point all those special folders to the D-drive, but windows makes that unnecessarily hard. (And even once you do that, various programs will still manage to store things directly on the c-drive)
Yes, I save all my documents, pictures and music on a separate drive (also on a nas backup), so if I need to re install windoze everything is safe and in the same place.
Asked the bot whether data on a separate partition is safe. This is the output. That after me being aware that ransomware can encrypt your backup external drive if connected to your system during encryption. "Virus Spread: A virus or malware that infects the OS partition can still potentially access and infect files on other partitions. This is because the virus operates within the OS environment and can typically read/write to any partition that the OS can access. Partition Isolation: While partitions are logically separate, they are not physically isolated. If a virus has the capability to spread, it can do so across partitions on the same drive. Access Permissions: Properly configured access permissions can help limit the damage. For instance, restricting the OS from accessing certain partitions can reduce the risk, but this is not foolproof." I have seen malware escaping a virtual machine, too. So I wouldn't be so certain.
One little known feature of Windows is the ability of the user to redirect My Documents to any folder on any external file volume. You can do this simply by changing the Location field in the Properties dialog of the My Documents folder in your User account. This is a completely separate consideration from the problematic behavior of Microsoft OneDrive discussed in this video.
Another downside to using OneDrive as your main user folders, is what happens when your internet goes down and your files aren't actually on your computer. Or what happens if something goes wrong with your Microsoft account, and you can't log in.
we all are forced to sign their huge document before installing windows , and i think clearly that it has an clause that forces you to accept these behaviours of ms
@@canalmaidebao-5197 - that's what comes when you have a monopoly with more than 70 percent of market share. That's doesn't make it right and that doesn't mean you can't do something about it. Just take a look at the document you are required to sign with the "free" Onenote program that comes with Windows 11. The government curbed MS two times but failed to keep them under control as time went on.
Simple. Nothing happens. Set one drive so that full files are kept on your hard drive locally. Don't use the "space saving" features that had proxy files on your computer. This is a zero issue you can resolve just by looking at the options screen. I think this might be even the default setting, and you have to choose for proxies. If something goes wrong with your MS account then you can't get into windows if you've got 11 which requires an account. (yes I know you can get around that, but if you're asking about these issues chances are you don't know how to)
I've done this for about a decade. The reason is that I don't store my data on my C-drive. On the drive that I do store my data, I made folders called 01 Pictures, 02 Documents, 03 Music and 04 Videos. The numbers prefixing the name ensure that they stay in order and stay at the top of the directory. I also have nothing to do with OneDrive. There is actually no such thing as the "Cloud" - it's just a fancy term for "someone else's computer".
You have made my day - I got so confused with the one drive thing I accidently deleted a heap of files to free up space - only to realise that I had actually deleted the document folder files as well. I actually reinstalled the Windows and Office and uninstalled the One Drive App full stop. Your video is perfect in explaining this. Well done
You went to a lot more trouble than you should have. Those files you deleted are still recoverable off of Microsoft OneDrive. If you're using the personal One Drive account then I think you have 30 days of recovery. You go online into your Microsoft account, then one drive and there's an undelete or restore option. Then you can reinstall OneDrive and have the computers files both in the cloud for safety and on your computer.
@@SpaceCadet4Jesus in fairness, Karen felt that the bigger priority was to make sure that it never happened again, and totally nuking one drive was an effective way of achieving that goal. I agree however that retrieving the lost docs would have been worth doing had she known how to do it at the time. The issue here is that One Drive is not effectively explained to users: it's just encouraged strongly without really making sure the user understands all the consequences. And the degree of persuasion is increasing to the point where for an uninformed user it can feel like coercion. And finally, you only have those 30 days. If you lost a file that you don't need till you do end of year accounts in 9 months time, then it's too late
@@trueriver1950 the remedy for the time limit of 30 days is to buy the paid version which gives you, I think, six months or one year? You're right they don't explain it very well. I turn it off for all my clients except for the ones that actually use it knowingly.
Other thing that most people do not know: If you delete data - it comes not in the desktop 🗑️ - but into the 'web' OneDrive 🗑️. And 'only' the website of OneDrive is the place to get your 😅deleted files & folders back 😂 [ the OneDrive App does not have / show the 🗑️ ]
I was born with a keyboard and mouse in my hands. I’ve been on windows since I was sitting on my dad’s lap playing Duke Nukem. I had one drive installed as a recommended tool by my university (Fullsail). I didn’t think anything of it at first. I used it to store my video files while I was traveling the world. Then, it became very apparent how big of a mistake that was. Not only do I not have those video files anymore. My documents, downloads, etc had become so jumbled I had to completely format my PC and avoid one drive like the plague. The moment you have one drive, you go from C>user>my documents to C>user>my one drive> my documents. You can wind up not only filling up your one drive space but also wind up filling up your hard drive quickly because there’s multiple document/download folders. I can’t express how much that system and its invasive nature infuriates me.
You made a UA-cam? Gained my sub! I used to actually get your newsletter in email from 20 years ago when I got into tech, you were a great resource during the early internet when i started my career in IT. You just randomly showed up in my feed. Its nice to see you are still around!
@JariNestel OneDrive is not an offline copy. Actually OneDrive is an attack target. Even without access to your computer an attacker could get your credentials, and slowly replace all your files with garbage, and your computer will sync it the next time.
It really bothers me that those "Documents/Downloads/etc" buttons don't change your explorer path to C:/Users//Documents, etc... but leave them as those special folder names. This means you can't bump up a direcotry to get to /users/ and then down to whichever other subdirectory you want. As for the one-drive mess, at one point I somehow ended up with 2 Documents folders in that qucik-access, neither of which showed the real path and I had to guess whether I was in the one that was acually /users/username/Documents or the one that was /users/username/One Drive/Documents
As a sysadmin that mainly works with Windows, it's really aggravating because a lot of the Quick Access folders are directed to This PC > Documents or whatnot, not > Documents. Just to get to the user dir I have to manually type in a path or click through a bunch of folders. I usually end up using CMD anyway, but it's nonsense.
I never use standard folders. I don't store any data on my C drive. Never use Onedrive. Don't do anything Microsoft wants you to. Eventually all software and data storage will only be available online. This is Microsoft trying to "help" you by owning everything. Most people will say "what's wrong with that?"
Yup, the harder they try to cram things like ondrive and windows11 down my throat the more determined it makes me to never use them. F MS! Don't even get me started about their AI spyware.
@@judmcc When an SSD or HDD goes South then the value of online storage will be evident. For my documents I use OneDrive, and Google Drive for my backups. Thus, regardless of my location I will have access to my documents. If they are on my computer, and I was not at that computer, then when the file(s) is need I would not have access. Another consideration, when we search the web from our computer the entire web is not on it, it is online in server farms strategically place around the world. we all have access to web information and for the most part is search and retrieval is extremely fast. Our banking, medical records, DMV, government stuffs, the list goes on is all online, not on our computers. Oh, for those saying "I would never do online banking" be aware your date is 100% available online created by the financial institution. YMMV.
Boy did microsoft screw me up a decade or two ago, to the tune of THOUSANDS of contract files. When the path length was too long for the new OS version, they just blew it off. You would think the older OS would have the shorter path length limit than the new OS version. I had created a taxonomy way back in the AT pooter days and paths could get long, so I was not vigilant enough. And just to be thorough, when the OS got updated all my files were given the same date as the OS change which made it really difficult to figure out which contracts the files were associated with because the contract number was in the file name as part of the path. Of course, not a reversible mistake. Lesson learned: When I got a new Windows 11 machine recently, I did not want everything crammed into my C drive so I put a folder called DOCUMENTS on the D drive and the MUSIC, PHOTOGRAPHS and VIDEO FOLDERS on a 4TB solid state drive. I maintain two USB drives for backup that I can unplug and put into a safe or take with me. I disabled the One Drive for a lot of the reasons you mentioned. I do not like losing rights to my own data because a contract expired. MS had taught me the hard way not to trust them to be transparent about their changes. After this video I did find some docs in my One Drive that I was surprised were there, so I appreciate the warnings in the video.
I had a lot of problems years ago with "path length" too long. Which was a pain having to rename folders to shorten them messing up my orginization. Does Windows 11 give you longer path lengths?
I simply don't organize stuff the way MS programmers think; I certainly don't name stuff the way MS programmers think; I also think that content data (low access frequency, low change volume etc) should be subject to the same mechanical risk as operating files. A bit like flying on an original Boeing 737-10 MAX... Low probability of it having a problem but catastrophically unrecoverable when it does.
@@colt5189 There might be a way to enable longer file paths. I believe a youtuber named Theo Joe put up a video about it not long ago. I'm not 100% sure that it works but you could try it.
I removed OneDrive after I lost months’ worth of work creating data files that were saved to OneDrive by default. Never could figure out where they went!
While I don’t touch one drive with a 10 foot pole, I have heard that you can access OneDrive files online if you have a Microsoft account which apparently you must if you have used one drive. So your data files are most likely available on the OneDrive website Even if you can’t find them locally. I don’t know how long ago that was but they might still be there.
When I ""upgraded"" to Windows 11 without knowing the perils, I naively used the standard folders (Documents most especially), as they'd always worked how you described they should before. Until one day I noticed the stuff in the documents folder was being backed up to the cloud (something I never opted into nor wanted to happen), and Microsoft complained at me for running out of space on my free account, so when I went to delete some cloud backups of things, luckily I noticed they were also being REMOVED FROM MY PC. Eventually I learned that, even though it looks just the same as always, the Win11 Documents folder is NOT stored on the local disk (even though it's in the C: directory like everything else in the User folders); it is actually on the cloud. I'm so glad I noticed this early, so I could move everything out of the fake, not local Documents "folder," and into a folder of my own creation, like you did in the video. Thank you for spreading the word; out really freaked me out and pissed me off, and I want for no other soul to become a victim of this insidious little change and its potentially huge consequences.
I forced myself to become proficient with Linux by not using it in a VM, but instead by deleting my Windows10 and using Ubuntu and later fedora as my desktop PC. ...not regretting it one bit, despite the learning curve and the occasional hurdles every now and then
@@marloelefant7500 A couple years ago I started having to use Windows again for work and I was surprised how many things were more user friendly in Ubuntu! Things like the lock screen, multiple desktops, and even text highlighting work so much better by default on Ubuntu than Windows 10.
yeah, I switched to Linux back in middle school, there were many reasons but Linux seemed overall more straight forward, it doesn't hide things from you (making things more confusing) and it gave my old cheap hardware a second life I started with Ubuntu, now I run Manjaro - my last Windows was XP and I get genuinely confused whenever I'm forced to use Windows, like at work, it's just a foreign world to me
Did it 5 years ago... first thing I noticed was how silent my PC was under any Linux distro. And the fact that HDD or SDD didn't need to be read every second as ib Windows.
Completely agree with you. I'm doing that since ages... saving MY stuff in MY folders. Didn't even know that Microsoft had the audacity to move personal files into a cloud folder, what the heck?! This is outrageous!
I use my own set of folders for over 10 years now, mainly because of ease of making back up's. Can't stand the assumptions of Windows, other software and AI to decide how and where to handle my files.
@@SpaceCadet4JesusYou definitely can. You don't have to store your files in the Linux user folders. Most of mine on my linux machine are still stored on a different physical drive entirely. But Linux isn't moving your files to the cloud and risking them getting deleted, their user folder is much more dependable.
I often did this, but MS has made it a huge hassle over time. Correcting default download locations like Leo mentioned, has to be done in every app. There's also the 'Places' shortcut list that apps use in their save/open dialogs, fixing those to point away from the library folders has become less and less consistent. Ultimately, I'm happy with using those default folders and simply never allowing Onedrive to exist on my machine.
@@valasdarkholme6255 Goodness, I have to get very specific, don't I? It’s generally NOT recommended to store personal files in system directories like /bin, /sbin, /lib, /usr, and /etc. These directories are reserved for system binaries, libraries, and configuration files. Storing files directly in the root directory (/) is also discouraged. This directory is meant for the top-level structure of the filesystem and should remain uncluttered For personal files, it’s best to use directories like /home/yourusername or /tmp for temporary files. This helps keep the system organized and ensures that you don’t accidentally interfere with system operations. Of course, you can keep your files on another drive, there's no limitation there unless there are quotas and limits on amount of space, restrict where you can store, or permissions disallow.
@@valasdarkholme6255The only thing that bothers me about the home folders is that Linux programs don't seem to ever agree on how, or at the very least where to store configs and user preferences, so you get jumpscared with tens of random folders and files when enabling hidden files on the file explorer, but at least it has never messed with my Docs, Pics, Music, Downloads, etc.
I totally agree, and have been keeping my files in non-default folder for decades. The only one I use is the “download” folder, but just temporarily during a download; right after finished downloading I then move the file to another stable destination. But in your video I found some additional valuable advice anyway, for which I thank you. 👍
I kept almost everything yet non-backupped in the Download folder for some years. I remember that someday (Win XP era?) people got severe trouble because M$ recommended to delete old files from that folder as a "cleanup" measure because they considered it a kind of Temp. Later they fortunately undid that stupid decision. (Firefox asks for similar crap when the browser wasn't used for few months.)
Reading through the comments so far, I don't get the impression people are understanding what Leo is suggesting. He's not talking about moving the "documents" folder to another loacation. He is saying to ignore it outright and make your own folder in a different location for your documents. The best way to do this is to partition your drive in to C: and D: Windows won't go into D: as long as you don't try to move the folders. On D: make your own documents (pictures, videos, music, etc) folder. If you don't partition your drive you can simply go to C:\ and make a folder that is completely outside the C:\Users hierarchy ... eg. C:\Home ... then inside that folder make your own documents (etc) folders. As Leo explains these self-created folder hierarchies are beyond Windows reach, so you can organize them and maintain them as you wish... without any meddling from automated processes. That is .... don't move the Windows folders... Ignore them .... Make your own... Then move your files to the new folders.
I've tried deleting them many times in the past and haven't been successful. Maybe there's a way to disable/hide them? Win7 still runs great with Updatepack7.
That means you will have to browse for your folder every time you want to save something. In an environment where productivity is important - that's not very productive. Disabling onedrive is the preferred method, along side with moving the default folders OUT of Users nightmare that m$ created. That way you can easily back up those folders and not fear that someone might reinstall windows which will just delete all folders in Users and re-make them empty.
@@Ludak021 No browsing .... if you open the file by association (click on the file, windows loads the program with the file open) you just click save when done. Trust me, it is no more difficult in your folders than in the Shell Folders.
It’s fine to use the user documents folder structure, as it preserves user security if multi users are using the PC. If you create a c:/ or d:/ folder, other users who log into that PC may have access to those folders, unless you try to use additional utilities to secure those folders, none which are easy or convenient for average users. I always have a good back up routine for my key files.
Junctions? You mean link files? You can do them on windows. Its possible to do all kinds of things same as linux, you could make an app install under program files on c while its really on a ram drive etc, its just a hassle
@@jovetj mklink /J ? Since 2k? Works only on local drives(symbolic link works on any targets) Tho ntfs provides ways to do it user dependently too and have active code.. Which gets messy
I've never ever used any standard Windows folders. They are just inconvenient for me and I've never dug deeper. All I want from Microsoft when I buy a new comp: clear OS, no additional apps, games, soft or folders. I would also prefer that the OS has all extra services off by default or unavailable. Just give me the naked OS. It takes time to delete all extras that come together with Windows. And some freaking sh@t cant be deleated, something like Playstation console or whatever it may be called. I am not using it so don't remember the exact name. 😊
Cracking video, Leo, so many people are completely lost about folder location, locally and OneDrive that they just dont attempt to do anything, just leave all alone. You have given a brilliant insight into how to take control of the situation, with useful caveats. Thanks for this.
Oh. Yeah, the first thing you say. I've always made my own, sometimes silly-elaborate, doc & pic & download, etc. folders on non-operating system drives. Just... because. I've watched MS increasingly try to "pay attention" to my data for years, casually from their sidelines, while I handled my own stuff. Good advice, Leo.
I just don't like to see a computing device as a repository or anything. It's a machine to do exactly the thing it's set to do, and uses local COPIES of the masters its working with. That also helps because limited storage won't just "fill up", it gets deleted (rather, marked as writeable) and archived when it's no longer USING that data. Nothing "sits" on the work desk, the work desk ought to be empty for new loads to arrive.
When I used Windows, I always partitioned the HDD and used D: as my (D)ata / (D)ocuments place. Everything I cased about and would backup was on D:, and I don't care if I need to nuke and rebuilt C:, it's just the OS and Program Files.
@@jlefeb6973 I can set individual sub folders such as "my document" and "my video" in D drive, but not sure how to set the root user folder in D drive.
@@mcha226 If you moved the actual user folder elsewhere, the problems the video is addressing would just follow it to the new location. You leave the OS managed user folder where it is for all the automatic junk that goes in there by default. You create a different set of folders for your documents, videos , pictures, music etc. that OS knows nothing about other than it's just some folder on a hard drive with some files in it. I usually put shortcuts in the default folders that link to my preferred locations so I can quickly get to them if a program insists ongoing to the default folders.
Dolphin is the best file program.. Of course, I use Linux so .. but yea.. 2nd partition out of the OS partition to save info.. Everyone learns this lesson sooner or later.. I have not used Winders for 25yrs... My KDE Kubuntu is smokin fast..
@@kansascityonline *_"lol.. touche~.. I am so happy I freed myself from windows after 7.... 25 yrs using Linux... Heck.. I don't even own a cell phone.. !."_* UA-cam: Linus Torvalds on why desktop Linux sucks
Since I have always kept my documents, pictures, downloads and videos on separate drives from the OS itself, I have always gotten into the habit of changing the location of those folders. If you right click on them, one of the tabs on the properties dialog is 'Location'. I change the location to point to a folder on a different drive. But since MS has been moving everything to OneDrive by default, this is almost impossible to do unless you completely unlink your OneDrive from the PC. Then you have documents in two separate locations. It's a real annoyance, let me tell you. I like your suggestions, Leo! I am now subscribing!!
I never understood why these folders existed. I already had folders for videos, pictures, etcetera. The explanation is appreciated and I’m glad I never used these default folders. I’m so tired of being jerked around by Microsoft that I’ve started transitioning my computers to Linux-starting with the Windows 11 one. I’m enjoying getting control; Computers will be fun again.
They exist so people don't have to create them every time they get a new computer. And if you don't use those folders you don't have to, nobody's forcing you, you can just delete them. Computers are fun even with the Microsoft operating system, you just got to know how to use it.
They exist for the numpties who would otherwise bung everything onto the desktop in a chaotic mess. They also exist so that browsers know where to put downloaded stuff if they are not told otherwise, where a word processing program is to put it's output if not told otherwise, and so on All these things are configurable, but they exist for people who can't be bothered to do learn how to set up their own folders; and for big organisations that want a standard system on all their staff computers. Remember Windows is designed for use by people who do not think of themselves as knowing about computers. The Linux desktops terms to follow the same ethos (annoying for us geeks, but an important part of making Linux accessible to the non-geek majority).
@@trueriver1950 I had a client whose computer needed some physical and logical cleanup. When I brought it back, the client complained about missing files. I said I did not go through your files, they are all there. I asked him to show me where he stored the files and he went directly into the recycle bin. He said he saves files he might need in the future there. I asked him how long have you done this? Oh...for a long time. I scolded him for saving his files in the trash can and said do you store your money or your keys in your trash bin at home? Just one use of CCleaner would wipe all the files out. I could write a book!
And when “your control” is actually just submitting to what a bunch of unknown guys have decided will be in your version of Linux??? Then what. And what will you do, when your version turns out to be worse than one of the other ones, where they have fixed some of the clutter in the old one, you change again “to get control”, and now you can’t find your stuff?
#1 I don't use a Microsoft account. #2 I long ago deleted One drive. #3 I have 2 other SSDs in my PC where I save everything. #4 I have a 4TB external SSD where I keep weekly backups of all files I give a fk about. Yes, I'm paranoid.
@@MarcusCactus Gee, where should I start. SSD means Solid State Drive, PC means Personal Computer, 4TB means 4 Terrabytes, which is the equivalent of eight 500 gigabyte drives. Is there anything else I can clear up for you?
Thanks for the heads up about creating our own folders for our documents instead of windows default folders that they mess with and we are out of control with . Very good ideas
The default folders are potentially shared folders. Use private personal folders on your hard disk to avoid cloud reorganization from shared folders. Shared folders are supposed to be for unimportant stuff you forgot to put in your private personal organisation folders on the hard disk partition. Backup important files to an external hard disk or usb
Thank you for sharing this. I was troubleshooting a computer with OneDrive backups enabled and couldn’t understand why no files were being saved to the local Documents folder.
Seems like 90% of the comments are saying the same thing lol. But probably those are the people that would watch this video so probably much less in general population.
This is an amazing presentation that I wish I had heard a few months ago because my entire work system kind of blew up because of this causing the hundreds of hours trying to figure out microsoft was useless because no one explained it like you do. I’m very grateful to you taking this on and playing English and I think it should be mandatory for anyone trying to figure out Windows.
Since 1994 I decided that ALL 'my documents' go on a separate partition, and then later (as it became reasonable) everything went on a separate PHYSICAL drive (D: , E: , J: , whatever). I only use the Windows \Downloads, then evaluate > MOVE or DELETE from there.
For me, I mainly only use the desktop, which has temporary files i'm working on, and shortcuts to my other folders like C:\Documents and C:\PortableApps and leave it like that.
Thanks Leo! Have spent the last couple days getting in control of my laptop and my data. You have, as always been a Godsend! And yes data has been truly backed up.
I always have every one of my computers set up as C: OS and D: Data with an E: DataBackup Robocopy backup drive. Plus my Data drives are Robocopied to my local NAS and to my offsite NAS. I don't put any data on the OS drive, ever. Plus OneDrive wants to always hijack the User folders which I don't want, so I will never use either.
@@patrickcardon1643 The core problem is that MS (and others) think some users are computer illiterate. Every one using a computer is literate, maybe not to vaunted level of thinking in Assembly which is a bit like being able to actually converse in Latin...
When Windows introduced "Libraries" I folded up the library options and never touched them again. Instead, I installed a new drive and created documents, music, pictures etc in a folder structure there and created shortcuts to them in Quick Access. I changed the default storage folder for all software installed to point to the new path on the new drive in a new folder. I did the same for any software I installed. The new drive was/is backed up to an external drive periodically. I changed the This PC landing page to reflect the new setup. (but that's a whole other story)
@@D.von.N I worry that one day a M$ bug will reconstruct AI hallucinations of your documents in OneDrive instead of giving back the real files created by you.
@@cyberyogicowindler2448 And therfore I am gradually switching my MS machines to Linux, only planning to use MS from a usb if needed, with files backed up separately on 2 different drives. There is one more PC left, running Win10 and having HDD that seems to be developing issues. I'll replace it for ssd and probably install Linux there too. I have heard somewhere the 22H2 version is losing support in 2 months. Microsoft is doing this to themselves.
@@D.von.N I also expect that M$ is mainly a slave of national intelligence and therefore wants us to give away all our documents to be scanned (but that do antivirus companies too). One day they may censor everything without notice. I am writing on a movie script about an AI based unhackable internet successor with legal ban of all private offline data media, that gradually turns into a kind of dictatorship doing personalized censorship.
Yeah. I think it's great for businesses, companies, and even home use if you need that accessibility from device to device, but it's really a ticking time bomb. If Microsoft decides to change their ToS, or change something to "help" you because they think they know better, if there's a bad update, server outages, hacking potential by parties that want to attack Microsoft, or hold your accounts hostage by ransomware, ...there's just so many things that can happen that only needs to happen ONCE for your whole account to disappear. Nevermind any personal information you've uploaded to be used to ruin your record financially, lawfully, or otherwise. ALSO nevermind the ability for law enforcement to snoop any personal information you've uploaded if they just ask Microsoft and scratch their belly. I use Onedrive only when I have to for class or needed for work, my personal answer is an external HD at home and I honestly need to get at least 1 more (I just don't have the funds now). The service to hold your data and do what they want with it is what they're offering. No thanks.
Not "if" they change their ToS, "when" they change it out from under users _again._ I've already seen >10000 people left without Google Docs access during a convention, when anyone who hadn't used a desktop interface to accept the new terms that month, became unable to access their files, all on the same morning. Microsoft did the same thing less than a year later. Services are not something to rely on, they're a convenience. If you're _reliant_ on a service, you're using it wrong.
Good video, when I came to this same conclusion what I ended up doing was to make a new clean (empty) D:/ Partition and create folders there (documents, downloads, etc) so when my pc needs a new OS installation I can simply backup my files and wipe the whole C drive without having to search for and extract every personal file spread all over windows default folders.
I like to keep all my "stuff" organised under a single root folder - called [path]\data of my choosing. Rather than deleting the shortcuts to documents, pictures, etc, I modify their locations under properties to point to my "data" path. In this way, most apps will take my preferred location settings as default. It's then easy to backup my "data" root folder using e.g. something like FreeFileSync for speed and convenience.
I do this too. Not sure if that would stop one-drive from moving the files though. I don't have one-drive installed, but it's possible that M$ installs it by stealth in the future.
I totally agree with the video. I even do an extra step, I shrink the C drive and create a new partition where I save all my documents as well as install most of the softwares to the new partition. This way if I ever have to reinstall Windows then I won't need to move my files. This method also kept all of my files 100% fragmented back in the days before SSD's.
I keep a separate data volume in case I ever need to rebuild the system volume. when I have had to rebuild the system volume, I MOVE the following folders from their default C: to my data volume and move my data into those folders: Desktop, Documents, Downloads, Favorites, Music, Pictures, Videos. I also keep a folder for Office 365 templates and dictionary on my data volume, then I change settings in 365 to point to the templates and dictionary. I am so glad the need to hack the registry is in the past.
This was a common practice before MS Windows starting using standard simple folder names such as Documents, Music, Video, Games, etc. People used their own naming schemes for their folders. Part of the reasoning was if someone got into their computer(s) they'd have to spend time to hunt for stuff. When standard folder names were first introduced, some people like yourself decided to avoid using them for the same security concerns. Others didn't really care. Businesses loved having a uniform folder naming scheme as it was so much easier to know where certain types of files were likely to be located and thus was easier to train new employees on. I know this seems trivial in hindsight, but lots of things that made sense in the early days of computing don't always age well.
The current default folders didn't exist in XP. The current default folders are under your user folder in the "Users" folder. That folder hierarchy didn't exist in XP; at least not any XP installation I saw. The current default folder locations were introduced, I believe, in Windows 10. In XP, Windows 7 and 8 there was a "My Documents" folder in the root of C, which was not specific to any user. I'm not sure the other default folders even existed somewhere in older versions of Windows. There may have been a default Downloads folder somewhere, but it was shared by all users, unlike with Windows 10 and 11.
@@wildbill4496good old Documents and Settings I'm pretty sure we had folders for pictures, music and video back in XP, however its been so long I don't remember the exact path. We didn't have libraries though. I believe those came with either Vista or 7, with the default folders included being these new folders.
That is Very good advice. You have earned a new subscriber. When I installed my Windows I created a local account without ever logging in to my Microsoft account. The absence of a Microsoft account prevents me from using one drive. and it prevents a whole lot of unnecessary apps from functioning. Lucky for me I have never experienced Microsoft managing my folder content. Even with my setup, one can never be careful enough. I will definitely consider your folder advice as having total control of my folders content and location is of the highest importance to me
MS doesn't help the situation when these standard folders are for the C drive. My C drive is only 256 GB. I don't keep my music or pictures there. I keep them on my RAID 1 HDDs which is safer than the C drive.
@@pedroferrr1412 Just because he doesn't mention that, doesn't mean that he doesn't know. I'm 100% sure he knows, and for your information, moving them a different drive doesn't change much, OneDrive for example will be aware of the change because of a registry settings that was changed once the move was initiated, and still find your files.
Exactly, these can be relocated but that doesen't solve the initial problem of programs controlling your actual "important" documents. As for why a shortcut to them on your desktop or explorer is better in some cases.
In the case of application making assumptions, you can definitely make a shortcut folder with the original names. This can be helpful in cases like video games that save the progress in the Documents folder
If you are diligent about keeping user files off of C:, when there is a glitch, rather than tracking the solution down, just restore your most recent image of C:.
I used to do all that, but as I've gotten older I decided the hassle just isn't worth it. Though, the only "standard folder" I use is the Documents folder. But I am also not infected with the Windows 10 or Windows 11 virus.
One important thing to add, especially since you are talking about losing files: BACKUP is essential. Always make sure to make regular backups of all important files. If you do not use OneDrive, which is ok, use a different method, be it an external USB drive or flash media, a NAS, another cloud storage, or anything else... But always do backups :)
OneDrive can be useful, but it really needs an option for 'Leave on this Computer Only'; so we wouldn't have to make separate folders to hide files from OneDrive.
I normally always put stuff in my own folders and don't use the quick access folders. I will use the quick access to make it easier to find my important stuff. Thanks, Leo
Never keep document files on the C: drive. You are asking for trouble if you do. The C: drive is what crashes most often. If you reinstall Windows on the C: drive you may lose your data. I keep data files on other hard drives and in my own folders.
I had many computers with that problem(comp eng.), and could always restore the files to another drive. To be unable to restore the files, is because you have a very bad drive(cheaper) or the drive was very old or suffer some form of "violence". You should always do backups of important files, does not matter in what drive the files are.
Really stupid advice. Reinstalling Windows is not a thing and has not been for about 15 years. Partitioning only leads to wasted space. As Dan said above, backup is a must, regardless of the location of your stuff.
not sure which version of windows you are using, but is has never been too unstable and the edge cases are really rare. people will continue to use windows because they muscled world domination. there is no reason to say the operating system or your programs will delete all your files, and not being in a library can't stop them from being deleted. if you have used a modern operating system then you have used a normal bog-standard journaled filesystem which prevents many manners of data loss.
Now this is an interesting topic! Certainly one I haven't seen before. As an MCSE, I've always used the Windows default folders, understanding they receive special protection to avoid inadvertent deletion and data loss. I've also avoided OneDrive like the plague. Your approach is excellent.
Back in the Win2000 days, I compulsively formatted and re-imaged my boot drive, so I got in the habit of storing everything in folders on other drives. That was obviously a while ago. I never use OneDrive or anything like that, so I never even knew they were pushing it as hard as they are. Thanks for the video.
Same here. Every stupid software author writes in "My Documents" and Microsoft keeps changing their access and locations. I just make a folder on my data drive and keep all my content there.
@@CathrineMacNiel because hardly all of the files being stored are actually documents. The best example off the top of my head is games that store their save files there instead of appdata. Its frustrating how completely disorganised things are where there are many different "standard" locations that programs store their stuff. Out of all of them Documents is the one that makes the least sense
@@ultimate9056 But when you look at it like a savegame being something you work on to complete, then storing them in my documents make total sense. Also that way, when you sync for files by using the default folders, your savegames also get sycned. AppData is hardly the right location.
If you do this, I recommend adding the new folder to windows search indexing. If you don’t then searching within file explorer will be very slow and often limited.
@@ruben_balea why ever enable one drive in the first place? Microsoft bombards me with messages to enable one drive and I love it because it's confirmation that it's not been enabled.
I do, and have for years. In fact, I often have multiple OneDrive accounts on a single computer. You do need to understand the behavior, especially the default behavior. The file loss Leo describes is easily avoidable if you watch your storage and act accordingly.
@@frankus9999 Same here. I have a personal laptop, a personal desktop, and laptops from two different employers. I don't put everything on OneDrive, but I do have everything I like to access from wherever I am in a couple of OneDrive accounts. OneDrive does have its uses. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I agree completely, brother. I always store my personal files in a way that makes sense to me. I hate that if you try deleting the default folders, even if they’re empty, eventually Windows will put them right back. Customization shouldn’t be a chore.
You are right, and the first thing I do after installing Windows is arranging my own folder system. It would however be much handier if Onedrive handled NTFS links, but it doesn't. And I know one program that sticks to Windows Documents folder: SpiderOak. You cannot change it and it is even explicitly declared by them that this is for us, users, not to confuse our files...
The idea that you have to use "Save As" is only for new documents. Rather than loading a program then opening a document in that program.... go to the document itself and click on it. The Windows file associations will open the program for you with the file already loaded. Now your program knows where the file is and you can save it just like you're used to.
A very annoying aberration to this is windows paint. It ignores where the document is that you are editing and always uses the last place you saved a file to even if that's from 2 weeks ago for something completely unrelated.
Thank you for this. Good suggestion. Well stated. Lost My Documents folder & entire contents without OneDrive enabled on my laptop. Laptop is now Linux only to preclude such heavy handed actions.
Thanks for the info. I want my Word files to be easy to find and to access for sharing. Ever since my war against Onedrive started, organizing my files has not been easy.
With encrption on default the MS assumes quite correctly the vast majority of people have no clue about the bitlocker and the forced MS account is there for them. For their own good. The small minority of just suffer along.
@@D.von.N Yeah, the vast majority of people don't need Bitlocker. It's only useful if you travel a lot with a laptop, live in a bad neighborhood with a lot of home breakins or have a bad living situation with people you don't trust, who might have physical access to your computer. Its purpose it to prevent data theft via physical access to the computer and/or drives contained within the computer. Most people don't have that concern and don't need Bitlocker, but Microshaft wants to force it on people by default. There's nothing wrong with having a Microsoft account, so long as you're not using it as the log in account for your computer. There are benefits to having one for other purposes, so long as it's not controlling if you have access to your computer.
You do have the "nuclear option" choice of saying some rude words to M$oft and downloading Linux While folk tolerate this abuse, and complain while still using their system, M$ are not going to change. They don't want happy users, they just want users (happy or not) as bait for their advertisers
August 7, 2020 - Thanks very much Leo👍👍😊 I'm going to store this video's link for future reference. As us old Trekkies say.. "Live long and prosper!🖖🏻"😊
@@donjindra then don't enable it... I'm just saying that what they do makes sense. IF you use MS to backup the files, it would only work if you backed up where your files are.
A major problem with OneDrive backup is that it doesn’t do a backup. It does a move. So it’s deceptive, you could say fraudulent. See Leo's video on this.
Excellent vid. Thanks. Microsoft defaults its folders to the OS drive (where the operating system) is. A lot of people don't understand how risky that is. The OS drive takes a lot of 'punishment' with regular read-writes, crashes and so on. It is not uncommon for it to become corrupted - and with resulting data loss. The default folders can be redirected - as I do - to a separate internal storage drive which does not take the constant 'punishment'. I then configure OneDrive to backup and sync those folders cloud. Video and Music folders become usually hefty and if left on the OS drive invariably cause Windows to slow down.
Not only that, if you get malware, ransomware or get hacked, they may target the docs folder. I have a separate folder on a non-OS drive where my important files and docs are kept.
Right on the money Leo! I am willing to bet over 95% of Windows users do not know that their files are, by default, saved to the Windows/Microsoft cloud where who knows what government agencies have access to. I have a close friend who is adamant about never using the cloud for anything. About a year ago, I found out what you just shared in your video, and when I shared it with my friend, he was furious. Why Microsoft has not been sued over this completely veiled consumer deception is beyond me. Please keep up the great work.
why would you want to scatter your stuff all over the partitions? Whats the reason for that? You can also let windows point those standard folders to different places, there aint a need for them to be inside your %USERPROFILE%.
Thanks Leo. I've always wanted to explain this to non-techs; you are better spoken than I 🙂 Looks like you're about the same age... so, back before "My Documents"... or even "Documents"..... Back then, we were on our own for a data folder. For that matter, the system drives were often too small to store Windows AND data (my first HDD was 10 MB). So, like others here, I started using **D:\data** for everything. - quick to type - volume label for D is "data" so its an extra visual que lol - when I change computers, I know where ALL my data is - when the system drive or Windows pukes (and it WILL), I can reinstall or replace C drive willy-nilly. - can move the data drive to another computer and back again (i.e. can easily be external) - store the data drive in a Safe while on vacation - can Map D to the NAS or SUBST somewhere else, etc.... Again, like you say -- YOU have the control. (p.s. VisualSubst is a cool tool ! ) - backup is easier - no spaces in the file path - avoids the apps that put stuff in MyDocs that really belongs in ProgData folder. - can junction link all or parts into OneDrive, Dropbox, iCloud, Google, ... (or use robocopy/etc where you control rules) - global to all users on the computer - avoid loosing files if you need to use a system drive RestorePoint - other things I am forgetting at the moment lol I've experimented with adding d:\data to the Documents Library but did not love these.
If you use "restore points" is another reason. These folders are treated almost as "system" folders, mainly the desktop, so it is very likely that you will lose files restoring the system to a previous state. The desktop should be always used as a temporary intermediate for files, never their permanent destination.
My biggest problem with the quick access folders is the lack of expansion. I like a directory tree, not a buffet. Also, the one time I tried to embrace one drive, years ago, is still haunting me.
Not only have I never used M$ folders, I have Added deny permissions to all of them since NT file system became default and made the S, H, R previous to that on folders they tried to control.
1:07 You mean like when you do a Windows update and your files just go "poof", great feeling huh? So great to have to back up your files BEFORE every update just to be sure you won't lose them... even better when it's a "surprise update" and the pc update on his own like a grapist and then you just pray to the god of ssds and motherboard for your files not to be deleted...
This is just a good example of giving you less control of your own property. I don't like to put files in the users file. I have heard that bloated user files slow down the computer. The first thing I do is create one or sometimes two partitions to put files in. If I need to reinstall the OS, I only need to format drive C: If windows failed, unless they changed it and you have no other option to retrieve files, you can opt to NOT format drive C: and install the operating system over it. Some of your lost files will be still available and retrievable. On WORD, on my first computer, it came with a Word install disk as well as a full WordPerfect install disk. Now, Word is a subscription. I did buy the upgrade and newer versions of WordPerfect and install it on all new computers I own. Others hate it and call it outdated. But, I own it. I can continue to install it on new computers and it does spell check, grammar, etc. as standard. It also allows me to install say German and it'll do the same thing. Last time I checked, if I wanted to do the same with Word--back when it was still buyable and not rentable, you had to buy an additional module. Maybe the gates foundation wouldn't have to give away so much money to poor people if MS didn't price gouge customers making them poor?
It hasn't been "your computer" for many years. Anyone that allows automatic (and especially mandatory) "updates" has no idea what code is being put on _their_ computer.
Thanks for the video! I held out for maybe 10 years before I ceased fighting for control of my top level 'magic' folders. I especially don't like the legerdemain with the abstraction in file explorer. I think the confusion compounds with the Onedrive folders. I still don't welcome how the standard folders took over but unfortunately it really smooths things out for my purposes if I don't try to fight it. I don't appreciate that they push us this way but there are so many companies that do similar things that I just abandoned this particular hill to stand on. (I install the OS a fair amount and I just got tired of fighting it. :/ - their goal of course.) :)
To follow up on this you should mention users should use a 2nd drive or partition, for when windows breaks, all the docs will be left alone during the install, then you can re-add your quick links to them after installing a fresh windows. The other benefit you didn't touch on is ransomware targets the documents, desktop, music etc default folders. meaning you are 99% likely to want the things it encrypts.. but if you use your own drive and own folders, they rarely touch other drives. On this topic, a 3 2 1 backup is required to make sure your data is actually safe. Onedrive, dropbox, google drive are all able to be used for very important backups, but nobody should put their entire collection of random docs on them and you should choose what to upload, 5gb or 2gb of space isn't a real lot.
I go even further. The first thing I do when getting a new computer, I split the hard drive in 2 partitions and create a D: drive where I put everything that is not related to programs and program settings. All documents downloads pictures files. This way when I backup I can backup everything on D: the rest is installable features. When the computer dies. I just start from clean and install what I need to install and copy my stuff to the new D: drive.
I'm with you on this one. I started with Vista to put nothing in those folders - at first because of name length problems. Those folders were just too deep into the structure.
I like having my own partitions. Drive A for Personal OneDrive, Drive B for Business OneDrive Drive E for local app profile storage (apps I can control the destination).
I personally have a NAS that I set as default for all my personal data. Makes it a lot easier to just not have any personal files on my computer so if it crashes I just reinstall the OS and programs then pin my data folders back to Windows Explorer. 😁
Thanks Leo, I have done the same as you for a loooong time as well. I like my OneDrive manually sorted out for some documents I willingly and knowingly put in there, and everything else I do consciously locally and sync in other ways
Also beware that Disk Cleanup can delete your whole Downloads folder if you check the wrong box. That might include stuff like decompressed archive folders with application data, saves files, etc.
In a region with a language other than English, the confusion is even greater.
The folder names are translated to native names on the desktop, but if you click on the path on the top in Explorer they are still in English, as they are in a cmd shell.
Ohhh yes. That drives me absolutely nuts. Especially since they like to drop the "My" in the translation, making it even more obscure. Also, even the explorer path can lie by now.
The absolute worst part is if those folders have accented letters in them.
Like, imagine a folder named "Képek" (Hungarian word for Pictures)
Good applications will save their stuff right there.
But _most_ apps will instead do one of these:
- kepek
- k?pek
- kÄ&$pek
- kpek
And eventually, every single variation will be created in your user folder by all those shitty apps.
@@hundvd_7 ahh, good old Mojibake we call it. That's a problem resulting from text being decoded using an unintended character encoding.
@@hundvd_7 This is the reason why I only use the english localization for my windows installs. Prevents all this from happening.
@@hundvd_7 Well you kinda deserve it for giving your country's name to the worst programming naming scheme (Hungarian notation). It's just karma at this point.
Thanks, Leo! Retired dev here. Used MS products including Visual Studio Enterprise for decades! My battle cry was always "Microsoft! Stop! Helping! Me!" LOL! :)
That's been my recurring line across far too many pieces of software in recent years. No! Stop trying to help! I feel like I'm scolding a dog.
@@WrecklessSandwich Clippy will help.
that's so true! they always add "helpful" features that get in the way!
@@WrecklessSandwichthere are still far more people who don't really understand computers but they're using them anyway than people who actually understand how they work. So it's no wonder software is "evolving" to serve the masses
@@david103857recently there's chatgpt/copilot I didn't ask for in pretty much everything from MS... How do I turn it off for good?
Microsoft has crossed not one, but many lines if you ask me
Facts.
Google just as much if not more than Microsoft.
Bing and google: censorship
ChromeOs, Android and Windows: making monopolies, data collection, required online account
Google docs, slides, etc. And Microsoft 365: bundling text editing software with their cloud and other services.
Google and Microsoft accounts: bundling with their other services.
This is why we have ReactOS
It's company policy since Microsoft Bob.
Ya back in the 90s. They've been building condos and highrise office buildings on the other side of the line for decades now.
Switching to Linux was the best decision I ever made. Gradually built up my knowledge to be able to usd Arch and its amazing to finally feel like im actually the one in control of the computer
I've done this for years for similar reasons. Microsoft's idea of "backup": Send a copy of your data to us for safekeeping and we'll delete your only copy.
That's why I have three external HHDs that I use for backups daily on a rotating basis.
@@philhart4849 Smart because I think ransomeware makers would be smart enough to target external your back up drive. Just wait until it's accessed.
OneDrive is basically an extortion racket at this point
And to hand over the NSA
Or worse
AI to read and learn and possibly replicate any of your private IP content.
@@philhart4849 What's an HHD?
Another reason I avoid saving my documents in the Microsoft default folders, is that the default folders are in the C: drive (where the OS is installed). I've learned since my first pc days, back in 1996, to always create at least a second partition where to save my documents, that is to immunize my documents in case a virus would infect my OS drive. And also I find it easier to backup my documents this way and clone or make image of my OS drive separately.
I use the same way of doing it, but I have 2 seperate drives 🙂
I had a machine with a relatively small windows drive, but a much larger second drive. So I wanted to store all my documents on that second drive. Really would be nice to easily point all those special folders to the D-drive, but windows makes that unnecessarily hard. (And even once you do that, various programs will still manage to store things directly on the c-drive)
Yes, I save all my documents, pictures and music on a separate drive (also on a nas backup), so if I need to re install windoze everything is safe and in the same place.
Asked the bot whether data on a separate partition is safe. This is the output. That after me being aware that ransomware can encrypt your backup external drive if connected to your system during encryption. "Virus Spread: A virus or malware that infects the OS partition can still potentially access and infect files on other partitions. This is because the virus operates within the OS environment and can typically read/write to any partition that the OS can access.
Partition Isolation: While partitions are logically separate, they are not physically isolated. If a virus has the capability to spread, it can do so across partitions on the same drive.
Access Permissions: Properly configured access permissions can help limit the damage. For instance, restricting the OS from accessing certain partitions can reduce the risk, but this is not foolproof."
I have seen malware escaping a virtual machine, too. So I wouldn't be so certain.
One little known feature of Windows is the ability of the user to redirect My Documents to any folder on any external file volume. You can do this simply by changing the Location field in the Properties dialog of the My Documents folder in your User account. This is a completely separate consideration from the problematic behavior of Microsoft OneDrive discussed in this video.
Another downside to using OneDrive as your main user folders, is what happens when your internet goes down and your files aren't actually on your computer. Or what happens if something goes wrong with your Microsoft account, and you can't log in.
That just happened so it is a good example. They have no right to manipulate your file system to the cloud without your approval.
we all are forced to sign their huge document before installing windows , and i think clearly that it has an clause that forces you to accept these behaviours of ms
@@canalmaidebao-5197 - that's what comes when you have a monopoly with more than 70 percent of market share. That's doesn't make it right and that doesn't mean you can't do something about it. Just take a look at the document you are required to sign with the "free" Onenote program that comes with Windows 11. The government curbed MS two times but failed to keep them under control as time went on.
Sync another copy with Dropbox….
Simple. Nothing happens. Set one drive so that full files are kept on your hard drive locally. Don't use the "space saving" features that had proxy files on your computer. This is a zero issue you can resolve just by looking at the options screen. I think this might be even the default setting, and you have to choose for proxies. If something goes wrong with your MS account then you can't get into windows if you've got 11 which requires an account. (yes I know you can get around that, but if you're asking about these issues chances are you don't know how to)
I've done this for about a decade. The reason is that I don't store my data on my C-drive. On the drive that I do store my data, I made folders called 01 Pictures, 02 Documents, 03 Music and 04 Videos. The numbers prefixing the name ensure that they stay in order and stay at the top of the directory.
I also have nothing to do with OneDrive. There is actually no such thing as the "Cloud" - it's just a fancy term for "someone else's computer".
Wait for the ransomware notice. Now they know your UA-cam account and the folder names on your comp. 😊
@@TroyQwert Maybe. But they'll have to be quick. I'm in the process of converting to Linux. And no, they don't know which drive I use.
@@TroyQwert Lol this is why a lot of times I'd like to share my best security and privacy tricks but I have to avoid it.
On laptops with an SD card slot, I put all of my files on the SD card.
@@colt5189SD cards have a higher chance of getting defective, as also pen drives
You have made my day - I got so confused with the one drive thing I accidently deleted a heap of files to free up space - only to realise that I had actually deleted the document folder files as well. I actually reinstalled the Windows and Office and uninstalled the One Drive App full stop. Your video is perfect in explaining this. Well done
You went to a lot more trouble than you should have. Those files you deleted are still recoverable off of Microsoft OneDrive. If you're using the personal One Drive account then I think you have 30 days of recovery. You go online into your Microsoft account, then one drive and there's an undelete or restore option.
Then you can reinstall OneDrive and have the computers files both in the cloud for safety and on your computer.
@@SpaceCadet4Jesus in fairness, Karen felt that the bigger priority was to make sure that it never happened again, and totally nuking one drive was an effective way of achieving that goal.
I agree however that retrieving the lost docs would have been worth doing had she known how to do it at the time. The issue here is that One Drive is not effectively explained to users: it's just encouraged strongly without really making sure the user understands all the consequences. And the degree of persuasion is increasing to the point where for an uninformed user it can feel like coercion.
And finally, you only have those 30 days. If you lost a file that you don't need till you do end of year accounts in 9 months time, then it's too late
@@trueriver1950 the remedy for the time limit of 30 days is to buy the paid version which gives you, I think, six months or one year? You're right they don't explain it very well. I turn it off for all my clients except for the ones that actually use it knowingly.
Other thing that most people do not know: If you delete data - it comes not in the desktop 🗑️ - but into the 'web' OneDrive 🗑️. And 'only' the website of OneDrive is the place to get your 😅deleted files & folders back 😂 [ the OneDrive App does not have / show the 🗑️ ]
I'd never even think of enabling one drive in the first place for privacy reasons. But this is just another reason not to.
I was born with a keyboard and mouse in my hands. I’ve been on windows since I was sitting on my dad’s lap playing Duke Nukem. I had one drive installed as a recommended tool by my university (Fullsail). I didn’t think anything of it at first. I used it to store my video files while I was traveling the world. Then, it became very apparent how big of a mistake that was. Not only do I not have those video files anymore. My documents, downloads, etc had become so jumbled I had to completely format my PC and avoid one drive like the plague. The moment you have one drive, you go from C>user>my documents to C>user>my one drive> my documents. You can wind up not only filling up your one drive space but also wind up filling up your hard drive quickly because there’s multiple document/download folders. I can’t express how much that system and its invasive nature infuriates me.
Your mother must have gone through a lot of pain during your birth, not to mention that it must have been quite the medical sensation. 😮
@@antred11 LMFAO
You made a UA-cam? Gained my sub! I used to actually get your newsletter in email from 20 years ago when I got into tech, you were a great resource during the early internet when i started my career in IT. You just randomly showed up in my feed. Its nice to see you are still around!
I have one strict rule: Always have an offline copy (of important files) and have an unplugged copy of very important files.
Always have multiple offline copies of important data.
I mean with OneDrive you have an offline copy - Microsoft is just going to delete that for you too.
@JariNestel OneDrive is not an offline copy. Actually OneDrive is an attack target. Even without access to your computer an attacker could get your credentials, and slowly replace all your files with garbage, and your computer will sync it the next time.
It really bothers me that those "Documents/Downloads/etc" buttons don't change your explorer path to C:/Users//Documents, etc... but leave them as those special folder names. This means you can't bump up a direcotry to get to /users/ and then down to whichever other subdirectory you want.
As for the one-drive mess, at one point I somehow ended up with 2 Documents folders in that qucik-access, neither of which showed the real path and I had to guess whether I was in the one that was acually /users/username/Documents or the one that was /users/username/One Drive/Documents
As a sysadmin that mainly works with Windows, it's really aggravating because a lot of the Quick Access folders are directed to This PC > Documents or whatnot, not > Documents. Just to get to the user dir I have to manually type in a path or click through a bunch of folders. I usually end up using CMD anyway, but it's nonsense.
I never use standard folders. I don't store any data on my C drive.
Never use Onedrive. Don't do anything Microsoft wants you to.
Eventually all software and data storage will only be available online. This is Microsoft trying to "help" you by owning everything. Most people will say "what's wrong with that?"
I do use OneDrive regularly but keep it under my control. I don’t use even Microsoft’s local backup tool, let alone the OneDrive backup.
Yup, the harder they try to cram things like ondrive and windows11 down my throat the more determined it makes me to never use them. F MS! Don't even get me started about their AI spyware.
Online storage makes no sense to me when we have plenty of storage (faster too) inside our computers.
@@judmcc Viruses.
@@judmcc When an SSD or HDD goes South then the value of online storage will be evident. For my documents I use OneDrive, and Google Drive for my backups. Thus, regardless of my location I will have access to my documents. If they are on my computer, and I was not at that computer, then when the file(s) is need I would not have access. Another consideration, when we search the web from our computer the entire web is not on it, it is online in server farms strategically place around the world. we all have access to web information and for the most part is search and retrieval is extremely fast. Our banking, medical records, DMV, government stuffs, the list goes on is all online, not on our computers. Oh, for those saying "I would never do online banking" be aware your date is 100% available online created by the financial institution. YMMV.
Boy did microsoft screw me up a decade or two ago, to the tune of THOUSANDS of contract files. When the path length was too long for the new OS version, they just blew it off. You would think the older OS would have the shorter path length limit than the new OS version. I had created a taxonomy way back in the AT pooter days and paths could get long, so I was not vigilant enough. And just to be thorough, when the OS got updated all my files were given the same date as the OS change which made it really difficult to figure out which contracts the files were associated with because the contract number was in the file name as part of the path. Of course, not a reversible mistake. Lesson learned: When I got a new Windows 11 machine recently, I did not want everything crammed into my C drive so I put a folder called DOCUMENTS on the D drive and the MUSIC, PHOTOGRAPHS and VIDEO FOLDERS on a 4TB solid state drive. I maintain two USB drives for backup that I can unplug and put into a safe or take with me. I disabled the One Drive for a lot of the reasons you mentioned. I do not like losing rights to my own data because a contract expired. MS had taught me the hard way not to trust them to be transparent about their changes. After this video I did find some docs in my One Drive that I was surprised were there, so I appreciate the warnings in the video.
I had a lot of problems years ago with "path length" too long. Which was a pain having to rename folders to shorten them messing up my orginization. Does Windows 11 give you longer path lengths?
I simply don't organize stuff the way MS programmers think; I certainly don't name stuff the way MS programmers think; I also think that content data (low access frequency, low change volume etc) should be subject to the same mechanical risk as operating files. A bit like flying on an original Boeing 737-10 MAX... Low probability of it having a problem but catastrophically unrecoverable when it does.
@@colt5189 There might be a way to enable longer file paths. I believe a youtuber named Theo Joe put up a video about it not long ago. I'm not 100% sure that it works but you could try it.
That sounds like a good use for SQL blobs, but learning that isn't trivial.
I remember Win98SE trouble by the Smalltalk programming language compiler trying to create way too long paths (making scandisk fail etc.).
I removed OneDrive after I lost months’ worth of work creating data files that were saved to OneDrive by default. Never could figure out where they went!
While I don’t touch one drive with a 10 foot pole, I have heard that you can access OneDrive files online if you have a Microsoft account which apparently you must if you have used one drive. So your data files are most likely available on the OneDrive website Even if you can’t find them locally. I don’t know how long ago that was but they might still be there.
"the cloud"
Maybe you ran out of space? They should have shown up in the Recycle Bin in Onedrive. They stay there for 3 months/93 days.
When I ""upgraded"" to Windows 11 without knowing the perils, I naively used the standard folders (Documents most especially), as they'd always worked how you described they should before.
Until one day I noticed the stuff in the documents folder was being backed up to the cloud (something I never opted into nor wanted to happen), and Microsoft complained at me for running out of space on my free account, so when I went to delete some cloud backups of things, luckily I noticed they were also being REMOVED FROM MY PC.
Eventually I learned that, even though it looks just the same as always, the Win11 Documents folder is NOT stored on the local disk (even though it's in the C: directory like everything else in the User folders); it is actually on the cloud.
I'm so glad I noticed this early, so I could move everything out of the fake, not local Documents "folder," and into a folder of my own creation, like you did in the video.
Thank you for spreading the word; out really freaked me out and pissed me off, and I want for no other soul to become a victim of this insidious little change and its potentially huge consequences.
I forced myself to become proficient with Linux by not using it in a VM, but instead by deleting my Windows10 and using Ubuntu and later fedora as my desktop PC.
...not regretting it one bit, despite the learning curve and the occasional hurdles every now and then
Welcome on the penguin side! 🐧
It can be hard at times, but when I see what's currently going on in Windows land, I'm not regretting anything.
@@marloelefant7500 A couple years ago I started having to use Windows again for work and I was surprised how many things were more user friendly in Ubuntu! Things like the lock screen, multiple desktops, and even text highlighting work so much better by default on Ubuntu than Windows 10.
yeah, I switched to Linux back in middle school, there were many reasons but Linux seemed overall more straight forward, it doesn't hide things from you (making things more confusing) and it gave my old cheap hardware a second life
I started with Ubuntu, now I run Manjaro - my last Windows was XP and I get genuinely confused whenever I'm forced to use Windows, like at work, it's just a foreign world to me
Did it 5 years ago... first thing I noticed was how silent my PC was under any Linux distro. And the fact that HDD or SDD didn't need to be read every second as ib Windows.
Completely agree with you. I'm doing that since ages... saving MY stuff in MY folders. Didn't even know that Microsoft had the audacity to move personal files into a cloud folder, what the heck?! This is outrageous!
I use my own set of folders for over 10 years now, mainly because of ease of making back up's. Can't stand the assumptions of Windows, other software and AI to decide how and where to handle my files.
Linux does the same thing. You can't just throw your files all over the computer.
@@SpaceCadet4JesusYou definitely can. You don't have to store your files in the Linux user folders. Most of mine on my linux machine are still stored on a different physical drive entirely. But Linux isn't moving your files to the cloud and risking them getting deleted, their user folder is much more dependable.
I often did this, but MS has made it a huge hassle over time. Correcting default download locations like Leo mentioned, has to be done in every app. There's also the 'Places' shortcut list that apps use in their save/open dialogs, fixing those to point away from the library folders has become less and less consistent.
Ultimately, I'm happy with using those default folders and simply never allowing Onedrive to exist on my machine.
@@valasdarkholme6255 Goodness, I have to get very specific, don't I?
It’s generally NOT recommended to store personal files in system directories like /bin, /sbin, /lib, /usr, and /etc. These directories are reserved for system binaries, libraries, and configuration files.
Storing files directly in the root directory (/) is also discouraged. This directory is meant for the top-level structure of the filesystem and should remain uncluttered
For personal files, it’s best to use directories like /home/yourusername or /tmp for temporary files. This helps keep the system organized and ensures that you don’t accidentally interfere with system operations.
Of course, you can keep your files on another drive, there's no limitation there unless there are quotas and limits on amount of space, restrict where you can store, or permissions disallow.
@@valasdarkholme6255The only thing that bothers me about the home folders is that Linux programs don't seem to ever agree on how, or at the very least where to store configs and user preferences, so you get jumpscared with tens of random folders and files when enabling hidden files on the file explorer, but at least it has never messed with my Docs, Pics, Music, Downloads, etc.
I totally agree, and have been keeping my files in non-default folder for decades. The only one I use is the “download” folder, but just temporarily during a download; right after finished downloading I then move the file to another stable destination.
But in your video I found some additional valuable advice anyway, for which I thank you. 👍
It's difficult to do this for my parents computer which I maintain because they can't do all of this.
I kept almost everything yet non-backupped in the Download folder for some years. I remember that someday (Win XP era?) people got severe trouble because M$ recommended to delete old files from that folder as a "cleanup" measure because they considered it a kind of Temp. Later they fortunately undid that stupid decision. (Firefox asks for similar crap when the browser wasn't used for few months.)
You know you can change the default download location, right?
Thank you for explaining. I've had an ongoing struggle with this and now I know exactly what to do.
Reading through the comments so far, I don't get the impression people are understanding what Leo is suggesting.
He's not talking about moving the "documents" folder to another loacation. He is saying to ignore it outright and make your own folder in a different location for your documents.
The best way to do this is to partition your drive in to C: and D: Windows won't go into D: as long as you don't try to move the folders. On D: make your own documents (pictures, videos, music, etc) folder.
If you don't partition your drive you can simply go to C:\ and make a folder that is completely outside the C:\Users hierarchy ... eg. C:\Home ... then inside that folder make your own documents (etc) folders.
As Leo explains these self-created folder hierarchies are beyond Windows reach, so you can organize them and maintain them as you wish... without any meddling from automated processes.
That is .... don't move the Windows folders... Ignore them .... Make your own... Then move your files to the new folders.
I've tried deleting them many times in the past and haven't been successful. Maybe there's a way to disable/hide them? Win7 still runs great with Updatepack7.
That means you will have to browse for your folder every time you want to save something. In an environment where productivity is important - that's not very productive. Disabling onedrive is the preferred method, along side with moving the default folders OUT of Users nightmare that m$ created. That way you can easily back up those folders and not fear that someone might reinstall windows which will just delete all folders in Users and re-make them empty.
@@Ludak021
No browsing .... if you open the file by association (click on the file, windows loads the program with the file open) you just click save when done. Trust me, it is no more difficult in your folders than in the Shell Folders.
It’s fine to use the user documents folder structure, as it preserves user security if multi users are using the PC.
If you create a c:/ or d:/ folder, other users who log into that PC may have access to those folders, unless you try to use additional utilities to secure those folders, none which are easy or convenient for average users.
I always have a good back up routine for my key files.
@@Ludak021have you ever heard of these things called LINKS or SHORTCUTS that have existed FOR DECADES?
This magic/obfuscation of these folders always gave me nightmares.
Just give us regular folders damnit.
yea and junctions
Junctions? You mean link files? You can do them on windows. Its possible to do all kinds of things same as linux, you could make an app install under program files on c while its really on a ram drive etc, its just a hassle
@@lassikinnunen Junctions are junctions. Symbolic links are symbolic links.
@@jovetj mklink /J ? Since 2k? Works only on local drives(symbolic link works on any targets)
Tho ntfs provides ways to do it user dependently too and have active code.. Which gets messy
Uhm, they ARE regular folders, just some with shortcuts presaved.
I've never ever used any standard Windows folders. They are just inconvenient for me and I've never dug deeper. All I want from Microsoft when I buy a new comp: clear OS, no additional apps, games, soft or folders. I would also prefer that the OS has all extra services off by default or unavailable. Just give me the naked OS. It takes time to delete all extras that come together with Windows. And some freaking sh@t cant be deleated, something like Playstation console or whatever it may be called. I am not using it so don't remember the exact name. 😊
C:/PrJ
That said, it would be nice if they hadn't discontinued their media tools; I do prefer _not_ to install third party apps if I can help it!
Hence why I love minimal Linux distros
Cracking video, Leo, so many people are completely lost about folder location, locally and OneDrive that they just dont attempt to do anything, just leave all alone. You have given a brilliant insight into how to take control of the situation, with useful caveats. Thanks for this.
Oh. Yeah, the first thing you say. I've always made my own, sometimes silly-elaborate, doc & pic & download, etc. folders on non-operating system drives. Just... because. I've watched MS increasingly try to "pay attention" to my data for years, casually from their sidelines, while I handled my own stuff. Good advice, Leo.
I think there's lots of people who would use Leo's stragetgy just on their own instincts. Me also.
I just don't like to see a computing device as a repository or anything. It's a machine to do exactly the thing it's set to do, and uses local COPIES of the masters its working with.
That also helps because limited storage won't just "fill up", it gets deleted (rather, marked as writeable) and archived when it's no longer USING that data. Nothing "sits" on the work desk, the work desk ought to be empty for new loads to arrive.
When I used Windows, I always partitioned the HDD and used D: as my (D)ata / (D)ocuments place. Everything I cased about and would backup was on D:, and I don't care if I need to nuke and rebuilt C:, it's just the OS and Program Files.
Unfortunately I don't think there is a way to set a user folder in D drive.
@@jlefeb6973 I can set individual sub folders such as "my document" and "my video" in D drive, but not sure how to set the root user folder in D drive.
@@mcha226 If you moved the actual user folder elsewhere, the problems the video is addressing would just follow it to the new location.
You leave the OS managed user folder where it is for all the automatic junk that goes in there by default. You create a different set of folders for your documents, videos , pictures, music etc. that OS knows nothing about other than it's just some folder on a hard drive with some files in it.
I usually put shortcuts in the default folders that link to my preferred locations so I can quickly get to them if a program insists ongoing to the default folders.
Dolphin is the best file program.. Of course, I use Linux so .. but yea.. 2nd partition out of the OS partition to save info.. Everyone learns this lesson sooner or later.. I have not used Winders for 25yrs... My KDE Kubuntu is smokin fast..
You really should have ended with "BTW, I use Arch."
@@dansanger5340 lol.. touche~.. I am so happy I freed myself from windows after 7.... 25 yrs using Linux... Heck.. I don't even own a cell phone.. !.🙃
*_"My KDE Kubuntu is smokin fast.."_*
UA-cam: "Linus Torvalds on why desktop Linux sucks"
@@kansascityonline
*_"lol.. touche~.. I am so happy I freed myself from windows after 7.... 25 yrs using Linux... Heck.. I don't even own a cell phone.. !."_*
UA-cam: Linus Torvalds on why desktop Linux sucks
@@user-rk9kb2sd9b yea.. watched that video awhile back....
Since I have always kept my documents, pictures, downloads and videos on separate drives from the OS itself, I have always gotten into the habit of changing the location of those folders. If you right click on them, one of the tabs on the properties dialog is 'Location'. I change the location to point to a folder on a different drive. But since MS has been moving everything to OneDrive by default, this is almost impossible to do unless you completely unlink your OneDrive from the PC. Then you have documents in two separate locations. It's a real annoyance, let me tell you. I like your suggestions, Leo! I am now subscribing!!
Yup. First thing I do when clean installing is disabling and deleting/uninstalling OneDrive.
I never understood why these folders existed. I already had folders for videos, pictures, etcetera. The explanation is appreciated and I’m glad I never used these default folders. I’m so tired of being jerked around by Microsoft that I’ve started transitioning my computers to Linux-starting with the Windows 11 one. I’m enjoying getting control; Computers will be fun again.
They exist so people don't have to create them every time they get a new computer. And if you don't use those folders you don't have to, nobody's forcing you, you can just delete them.
Computers are fun even with the Microsoft operating system, you just got to know how to use it.
They exist for the numpties who would otherwise bung everything onto the desktop in a chaotic mess.
They also exist so that browsers know where to put downloaded stuff if they are not told otherwise, where a word processing program is to put it's output if not told otherwise, and so on
All these things are configurable, but they exist for people who can't be bothered to do learn how to set up their own folders; and for big organisations that want a standard system on all their staff computers.
Remember Windows is designed for use by people who do not think of themselves as knowing about computers. The Linux desktops terms to follow the same ethos (annoying for us geeks, but an important part of making Linux accessible to the non-geek majority).
No. Computers are not reliable with MS. Run away guys from it, to Linux. And, do not use Ubuntu neither distris of it@@SpaceCadet4Jesus
@@trueriver1950 I had a client whose computer needed some physical and logical cleanup.
When I brought it back, the client complained about missing files.
I said I did not go through your files, they are all there.
I asked him to show me where he stored the files and he went directly into the recycle bin.
He said he saves files he might need in the future there.
I asked him how long have you done this?
Oh...for a long time.
I scolded him for saving his files in the trash can and said do you store your money or your keys in your trash bin at home?
Just one use of CCleaner would wipe all the files out.
I could write a book!
And when “your control” is actually just submitting to what a bunch of unknown guys have decided will be in your version of Linux???
Then what. And what will you do, when your version turns out to be worse than one of the other ones, where they have fixed some of the clutter in the old one, you change again “to get control”, and now you can’t find your stuff?
#1 I don't use a Microsoft account. #2 I long ago deleted One drive. #3 I have 2 other SSDs in my PC where I save everything. #4 I have a 4TB external SSD where I keep weekly backups of all files I give a fk about. Yes, I'm paranoid.
not paranoid, smart!
More than paranoid. Self-isolated.
You speak geek, I don't understand half of your acronyms.
@@MarcusCactus Gee, where should I start. SSD means Solid State Drive, PC means Personal Computer, 4TB means 4 Terrabytes, which is the equivalent of eight 500 gigabyte drives. Is there anything else I can clear up for you?
If you were paranoid I wouldn't understand how you could possibly be okay with Windows
Thanks for the heads up about creating our own folders for our documents instead of windows default folders that they mess with and we are out of control with . Very good ideas
Thanks, I always have avoided these default folders just intuitively
The default folders are potentially shared folders. Use private personal folders on your hard disk to avoid cloud reorganization from shared folders. Shared folders are supposed to be for unimportant stuff you forgot to put in your private personal organisation folders on the hard disk partition. Backup important files to an external hard disk or usb
What do you mean with potentially shared folders?
Thank you for sharing this. I was troubleshooting a computer with OneDrive backups enabled and couldn’t understand why no files were being saved to the local Documents folder.
Funny, I do the same thing avoid those folders and make my own going all the way back to XP days Great Video!
Seems like 90% of the comments are saying the same thing lol. But probably those are the people that would watch this video so probably much less in general population.
This is an amazing presentation that I wish I had heard a few months ago because my entire work system kind of blew up because of this causing the hundreds of hours trying to figure out microsoft was useless because no one explained it like you do. I’m very grateful to you taking this on and playing English and I think it should be mandatory for anyone trying to figure out Windows.
Since 1994 I decided that ALL 'my documents' go on a separate partition, and then later (as it became reasonable) everything went on a separate PHYSICAL drive (D: , E: , J: , whatever). I only use the Windows \Downloads, then evaluate > MOVE or DELETE from there.
For me, I mainly only use the desktop, which has temporary files i'm working on, and shortcuts to my other folders like C:\Documents and C:\PortableApps and leave it like that.
Thanks Leo! Have spent the last couple days getting in control of my laptop and my data. You have, as always been a Godsend! And yes data has been truly backed up.
I always have every one of my computers set up as C: OS and D: Data with an E: DataBackup Robocopy backup drive. Plus my Data drives are Robocopied to my local NAS and to my offsite NAS. I don't put any data on the OS drive, ever. Plus OneDrive wants to always hijack the User folders which I don't want, so I will never use either.
Likewise ... standard folders are fine for computer illiterate people but forcing them on everyone is plain unusable
You can install One Drive not to use the default location, but it does get very messy
@@patrickcardon1643 The core problem is that MS (and others) think some users are computer illiterate. Every one using a computer is literate, maybe not to vaunted level of thinking in Assembly which is a bit like being able to actually converse in Latin...
I don't use OneDrive at all
FastCopy > Robocopy
The first 40 seconds of the video tells exactly why I feel the same! I want to control where my files are, so I can find AND access them!
When Windows introduced "Libraries" I folded up the library options and never touched them again. Instead, I installed a new drive and created documents, music, pictures etc in a folder structure there and created shortcuts to them in Quick Access. I changed the default storage folder for all software installed to point to the new path on the new drive in a new folder. I did the same for any software I installed. The new drive was/is backed up to an external drive periodically. I changed the This PC landing page to reflect the new setup. (but that's a whole other story)
Wait until the AI has a look inside your computer and figures things out 😆😆😆
@@D.von.N I worry that one day a M$ bug will reconstruct AI hallucinations of your documents in OneDrive instead of giving back the real files created by you.
@@cyberyogicowindler2448 And therfore I am gradually switching my MS machines to Linux, only planning to use MS from a usb if needed, with files backed up separately on 2 different drives. There is one more PC left, running Win10 and having HDD that seems to be developing issues. I'll replace it for ssd and probably install Linux there too. I have heard somewhere the 22H2 version is losing support in 2 months. Microsoft is doing this to themselves.
@@D.von.N I also expect that M$ is mainly a slave of national intelligence and therefore wants us to give away all our documents to be scanned (but that do antivirus companies too). One day they may censor everything without notice. I am writing on a movie script about an AI based unhackable internet successor with legal ban of all private offline data media, that gradually turns into a kind of dictatorship doing personalized censorship.
Trusting your files to Windows is dumb. Trusting your files to a free, online cloud service is dumb as bricks. Just sayin'
Yeah. I think it's great for businesses, companies, and even home use if you need that accessibility from device to device, but it's really a ticking time bomb.
If Microsoft decides to change their ToS, or change something to "help" you because they think they know better, if there's a bad update, server outages, hacking potential by parties that want to attack Microsoft, or hold your accounts hostage by ransomware, ...there's just so many things that can happen that only needs to happen ONCE for your whole account to disappear. Nevermind any personal information you've uploaded to be used to ruin your record financially, lawfully, or otherwise.
ALSO nevermind the ability for law enforcement to snoop any personal information you've uploaded if they just ask Microsoft and scratch their belly.
I use Onedrive only when I have to for class or needed for work, my personal answer is an external HD at home and I honestly need to get at least 1 more (I just don't have the funds now).
The service to hold your data and do what they want with it is what they're offering.
No thanks.
"There is no cloud, there's just someone else's computer".
Not "if" they change their ToS, "when" they change it out from under users _again._
I've already seen >10000 people left without Google Docs access during a convention, when anyone who hadn't used a desktop interface to accept the new terms that month, became unable to access their files, all on the same morning.
Microsoft did the same thing less than a year later.
Services are not something to rely on, they're a convenience. If you're _reliant_ on a service, you're using it wrong.
Using Windows as your main OS is even dumber XD
@@streyngthz so is linux. Welcome to society 🤡
Good video, when I came to this same conclusion what I ended up doing was to make a new clean (empty) D:/ Partition and create folders there (documents, downloads, etc) so when my pc needs a new OS installation I can simply backup my files and wipe the whole C drive without having to search for and extract every personal file spread all over windows default folders.
I like to keep all my "stuff" organised under a single root folder - called [path]\data of my choosing. Rather than deleting the shortcuts to documents, pictures, etc, I modify their locations under properties to point to my "data" path. In this way, most apps will take my preferred location settings as default. It's then easy to backup my "data" root folder using e.g. something like FreeFileSync for speed and convenience.
I do this too. Not sure if that would stop one-drive from moving the files though. I don't have one-drive installed, but it's possible that M$ installs it by stealth in the future.
Telling Windows where to find your files "by default" is not the point the video is making.
I totally agree with the video.
I even do an extra step, I shrink the C drive and create a new partition where I save all my documents as well as install most of the softwares to the new partition.
This way if I ever have to reinstall Windows then I won't need to move my files.
This method also kept all of my files 100% fragmented back in the days before SSD's.
I leave the Desktop folder where it is, but all the others are on a drive other than C. OneDrive was deleted long ago.
I keep a separate data volume in case I ever need to rebuild the system volume. when I have had to rebuild the system volume, I MOVE the following folders from their default C: to my data volume and move my data into those folders: Desktop, Documents, Downloads, Favorites, Music, Pictures, Videos. I also keep a folder for Office 365 templates and dictionary on my data volume, then I change settings in 365 to point to the templates and dictionary.
I am so glad the need to hack the registry is in the past.
This was a common practice before MS Windows starting using standard simple folder names such as Documents, Music, Video, Games, etc. People used their own naming schemes for their folders. Part of the reasoning was if someone got into their computer(s) they'd have to spend time to hunt for stuff. When standard folder names were first introduced, some people like yourself decided to avoid using them for the same security concerns. Others didn't really care. Businesses loved having a uniform folder naming scheme as it was so much easier to know where certain types of files were likely to be located and thus was easier to train new employees on. I know this seems trivial in hindsight, but lots of things that made sense in the early days of computing don't always age well.
I haven't used these folders since Windows XP. I always partition my hdd/ssd for os and data separately...
The current default folders didn't exist in XP. The current default folders are under your user folder in the "Users" folder. That folder hierarchy didn't exist in XP; at least not any XP installation I saw. The current default folder locations were introduced, I believe, in Windows 10. In XP, Windows 7 and 8 there was a "My Documents" folder in the root of C, which was not specific to any user. I'm not sure the other default folders even existed somewhere in older versions of Windows. There may have been a default Downloads folder somewhere, but it was shared by all users, unlike with Windows 10 and 11.
@@wildbill4496 what about vista
@@wildbill4496good old Documents and Settings
I'm pretty sure we had folders for pictures, music and video back in XP, however its been so long I don't remember the exact path.
We didn't have libraries though. I believe those came with either Vista or 7, with the default folders included being these new folders.
That is Very good advice. You have earned a new subscriber.
When I installed my Windows I created a local account without ever logging in to my Microsoft account. The absence of a Microsoft account prevents me from using one drive. and it prevents a whole lot of unnecessary apps from functioning. Lucky for me I have never experienced Microsoft managing my folder content.
Even with my setup, one can never be careful enough. I will definitely consider your folder advice as having total control of my folders content and location is of the highest importance to me
MS doesn't help the situation when these standard folders are for the C drive. My C drive is only 256 GB. I don't keep my music or pictures there. I keep them on my RAID 1 HDDs which is safer than the C drive.
You can move them, which includes automatically changing all the pointers, under Properties, Location.
@@daemon1143 Exactly, but it seems most don´t know that, even the guy of the video...
@@pedroferrr1412 Just because he doesn't mention that, doesn't mean that he doesn't know. I'm 100% sure he knows, and for your information, moving them a different drive doesn't change much, OneDrive for example will be aware of the change because of a registry settings that was changed once the move was initiated, and still find your files.
Exactly, these can be relocated but that doesen't solve the initial problem of programs controlling your actual "important" documents. As for why a shortcut to them on your desktop or explorer is better in some cases.
@@user-rk9kb2sd9b On one drive's settings, you can disable the 'backups of all folders', or selected folders.
In the case of application making assumptions, you can definitely make a shortcut folder with the original names. This can be helpful in cases like video games that save the progress in the Documents folder
If you are diligent about keeping user files off of C:, when there is a glitch, rather than tracking the solution down, just restore your most recent image of C:.
I used to do all that, but as I've gotten older I decided the hassle just isn't worth it. Though, the only "standard folder" I use is the Documents folder. But I am also not infected with the Windows 10 or Windows 11 virus.
One important thing to add, especially since you are talking about losing files: BACKUP is essential. Always make sure to make regular backups of all important files. If you do not use OneDrive, which is ok, use a different method, be it an external USB drive or flash media, a NAS, another cloud storage, or anything else... But always do backups :)
OneDrive can be useful, but it really needs an option for 'Leave on this Computer Only'; so we wouldn't have to make separate folders to hide files from OneDrive.
Can't believe they don't have that option as someone who's never even touched it. That's astonishing.
I normally always put stuff in my own folders and don't use the quick access folders. I will use the quick access to make it easier to find my important stuff. Thanks, Leo
Never keep document files on the C: drive. You are asking for trouble if you do. The C: drive is what crashes most often. If you reinstall Windows on the C: drive you may lose your data. I keep data files on other hard drives and in my own folders.
I had many computers with that problem(comp eng.), and could always restore the files to another drive. To be unable to restore the files, is because you have a very bad drive(cheaper) or the drive was very old or suffer some form of "violence". You should always do backups of important files, does not matter in what drive the files are.
You have to back up your data regardless of which drive it's on.
Really stupid advice. Reinstalling Windows is not a thing and has not been for about 15 years. Partitioning only leads to wasted space. As Dan said above, backup is a must, regardless of the location of your stuff.
not sure which version of windows you are using, but is has never been too unstable and the edge cases are really rare. people will continue to use windows because they muscled world domination. there is no reason to say the operating system or your programs will delete all your files, and not being in a library can't stop them from being deleted.
if you have used a modern operating system then you have used a normal bog-standard journaled filesystem which prevents many manners of data loss.
This advice is about 20 years out of date
Now this is an interesting topic! Certainly one I haven't seen before.
As an MCSE, I've always used the Windows default folders, understanding they receive special protection to avoid inadvertent deletion and data loss.
I've also avoided OneDrive like the plague.
Your approach is excellent.
Back in the Win2000 days, I compulsively formatted and re-imaged my boot drive, so I got in the habit of storing everything in folders on other drives. That was obviously a while ago.
I never use OneDrive or anything like that, so I never even knew they were pushing it as hard as they are. Thanks for the video.
Good video. I also hate how so many applications remove control from the user nowadays - typically for malicious and financial reasons.
Same here. Every stupid software author writes in "My Documents" and Microsoft keeps changing their access and locations.
I just make a folder on my data drive and keep all my content there.
Why is it stupid for a software author to use %USERPROFILE%\Documents for well Documents of the currently logged in user?
@@CathrineMacNiel because hardly all of the files being stored are actually documents. The best example off the top of my head is games that store their save files there instead of appdata. Its frustrating how completely disorganised things are where there are many different "standard" locations that programs store their stuff. Out of all of them Documents is the one that makes the least sense
@@ultimate9056 But when you look at it like a savegame being something you work on to complete, then storing them in my documents make total sense.
Also that way, when you sync for files by using the default folders, your savegames also get sycned. AppData is hardly the right location.
If you do this, I recommend adding the new folder to windows search indexing. If you don’t then searching within file explorer will be very slow and often limited.
Solution: Ditch OneDrive
Yep ... first chance you get.
I only use the web version, it's one of the first things that I uninstall just after installing Windows
@@ruben_balea why ever enable one drive in the first place? Microsoft bombards me with messages to enable one drive and I love it because it's confirmation that it's not been enabled.
@@linsqopiring6816 Yeah but I still prefer to uninstall it just in case, if it is not there it can be enabled (I hope!)
I do too. I point most to my Windows SSD NAS and then run iDrive backup from that. That way if my machine or C: drive breaks I'm mostly in the clear.
2:40 What sane person would touch OneDrive? I usually root it out of the system even during installation.
I do, and have for years. In fact, I often have multiple OneDrive accounts on a single computer. You do need to understand the behavior, especially the default behavior. The file loss Leo describes is easily avoidable if you watch your storage and act accordingly.
@@frankus9999 Same here. I have a personal laptop, a personal desktop, and laptops from two different employers. I don't put everything on OneDrive, but I do have everything I like to access from wherever I am in a couple of OneDrive accounts.
OneDrive does have its uses. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I agree completely, brother. I always store my personal files in a way that makes sense to me. I hate that if you try deleting the default folders, even if they’re empty, eventually Windows will put them right back. Customization shouldn’t be a chore.
You are correct about MS behavior. They now act like they own your computer.
Because they do. If you use Windows 8 or later, they own it. It's not yours.
You are right, and the first thing I do after installing Windows is arranging my own folder system. It would however be much handier if Onedrive handled NTFS links, but it doesn't.
And I know one program that sticks to Windows Documents folder: SpiderOak. You cannot change it and it is even explicitly declared by them that this is for us, users, not to confuse our files...
The idea that you have to use "Save As" is only for new documents.
Rather than loading a program then opening a document in that program.... go to the document itself and click on it. The Windows file associations will open the program for you with the file already loaded. Now your program knows where the file is and you can save it just like you're used to.
A very annoying aberration to this is windows paint. It ignores where the document is that you are editing and always uses the last place you saved a file to even if that's from 2 weeks ago for something completely unrelated.
@@linsqopiring6816
There's always one .... 🥺
Thank you for this. Good suggestion. Well stated. Lost My Documents folder & entire contents without OneDrive enabled on my laptop. Laptop is now Linux only to preclude such heavy handed actions.
Thanks for the info. I want my Word files to be easy to find and to access for sharing. Ever since my war against Onedrive started, organizing my files has not been easy.
you can just not enable it, it has never gotten in anyones way, unless it was enabled or something and you clicked on a microsoft popup.
This is amazing advice and instructions. I didn't know I needed it until now, but it makes so much sense. Thank you so much Leo.
Microsoft shouldn't force us to use a Microsoft Account and OneDrive. They should give us choices and not assume
With encrption on default the MS assumes quite correctly the vast majority of people have no clue about the bitlocker and the forced MS account is there for them. For their own good. The small minority of just suffer along.
@@D.von.N Yeah, the vast majority of people don't need Bitlocker. It's only useful if you travel a lot with a laptop, live in a bad neighborhood with a lot of home breakins or have a bad living situation with people you don't trust, who might have physical access to your computer. Its purpose it to prevent data theft via physical access to the computer and/or drives contained within the computer. Most people don't have that concern and don't need Bitlocker, but Microshaft wants to force it on people by default.
There's nothing wrong with having a Microsoft account, so long as you're not using it as the log in account for your computer. There are benefits to having one for other purposes, so long as it's not controlling if you have access to your computer.
You do have the "nuclear option" choice of saying some rude words to M$oft and downloading Linux
While folk tolerate this abuse, and complain while still using their system, M$ are not going to change. They don't want happy users, they just want users (happy or not) as bait for their advertisers
August 7, 2020 - Thanks very much Leo👍👍😊 I'm going to store this video's link for future reference. As us old Trekkies say.. "Live long and prosper!🖖🏻"😊
What MS is doing, as much as I don't like them, makes sense. A backup does no good if you aren't backing up where your files are...
But I don't need Microsoft's folder organization to backup my files. I wouldn't trust Microsoft's backup anyway.
@@donjindra then don't enable it... I'm just saying that what they do makes sense. IF you use MS to backup the files, it would only work if you backed up where your files are.
A major problem with OneDrive backup is that it doesn’t do a backup. It does a move. So it’s deceptive, you could say fraudulent. See Leo's video on this.
@@rockymarquiss8327 I don't enable it. I have my own way of backing up files.
@@rockymarquiss8327 your statement doesn't make any sense
Excellent vid. Thanks. Microsoft defaults its folders to the OS drive (where the operating system) is. A lot of people don't understand how risky that is. The OS drive takes a lot of 'punishment' with regular read-writes, crashes and so on. It is not uncommon for it to become corrupted - and with resulting data loss. The default folders can be redirected - as I do - to a separate internal storage drive which does not take the constant 'punishment'. I then configure OneDrive to backup and sync those folders cloud. Video and Music folders become usually hefty and if left on the OS drive invariably cause Windows to slow down.
Not only that, if you get malware, ransomware or get hacked, they may target the docs folder. I have a separate folder on a non-OS drive where my important files and docs are kept.
A lot of stuff does just hard code that folder so if you have your own stuff elsewhere then you are fine.
Right on the money Leo! I am willing to bet over 95% of Windows users do not know that their files are, by default, saved to the Windows/Microsoft cloud where who knows what government agencies have access to. I have a close friend who is adamant about never using the cloud for anything. About a year ago, I found out what you just shared in your video, and when I shared it with my friend, he was furious. Why Microsoft has not been sued over this completely veiled consumer deception is beyond me. Please keep up the great work.
In my mind, One Drive is hackable. I have a heap of Hard Drives where I keep my stuff, and always save as "Save As". I do NOT trust the cloud.
As soon as you mentioned "Microsoft standard folders," I knew exactly where you were going and decided to change their names.
Changing their names will not stop the shell from treating them as "owned" folders.
I HATE the standard folders! I cant put my stuff where I want it! Fully with you on this one!
why would you want to scatter your stuff all over the partitions? Whats the reason for that? You can also let windows point those standard folders to different places, there aint a need for them to be inside your %USERPROFILE%.
Thanks Leo. I've always wanted to explain this to non-techs; you are better spoken than I 🙂
Looks like you're about the same age... so, back before "My Documents"... or even "Documents".....
Back then, we were on our own for a data folder. For that matter, the system drives were often too small to store Windows AND data (my first HDD was 10 MB).
So, like others here, I started using **D:\data** for everything.
- quick to type
- volume label for D is "data" so its an extra visual que lol
- when I change computers, I know where ALL my data is
- when the system drive or Windows pukes (and it WILL), I can reinstall or replace C drive willy-nilly.
- can move the data drive to another computer and back again (i.e. can easily be external)
- store the data drive in a Safe while on vacation
- can Map D to the NAS or SUBST somewhere else, etc.... Again, like you say -- YOU have the control. (p.s. VisualSubst is a cool tool ! )
- backup is easier
- no spaces in the file path
- avoids the apps that put stuff in MyDocs that really belongs in ProgData folder.
- can junction link all or parts into OneDrive, Dropbox, iCloud, Google, ... (or use robocopy/etc where you control rules)
- global to all users on the computer
- avoid loosing files if you need to use a system drive RestorePoint
- other things I am forgetting at the moment lol
I've experimented with adding d:\data to the Documents Library but did not love these.
If you use "restore points" is another reason. These folders are treated almost as "system" folders, mainly the desktop, so it is very likely that you will lose files restoring the system to a previous state. The desktop should be always used as a temporary intermediate for files, never their permanent destination.
That is not true!
agree,+more reasons, OS/apps an possibly malware assuming folder name it's not "My documents", it's "Our documents"
My biggest problem with the quick access folders is the lack of expansion. I like a directory tree, not a buffet. Also, the one time I tried to embrace one drive, years ago, is still haunting me.
Not only have I never used M$ folders, I have Added deny permissions to all of them since NT file system became default and made the S, H, R previous to that on folders they tried to control.
1:07 You mean like when you do a Windows update and your files just go "poof", great feeling huh? So great to have to back up your files BEFORE every update just to be sure you won't lose them... even better when it's a "surprise update" and the pc update on his own like a grapist and then you just pray to the god of ssds and motherboard for your files not to be deleted...
LOL. What on earth did you do to cause that? Never happened to majority of us dude
This is just a good example of giving you less control of your own property.
I don't like to put files in the users file. I have heard that bloated user files slow down the computer.
The first thing I do is create one or sometimes two partitions to put files in. If I need to reinstall the OS, I only need to format drive C: If windows failed, unless they changed it and you have no other option to retrieve files, you can opt to NOT format drive C: and install the operating system over it. Some of your lost files will be still available and retrievable.
On WORD, on my first computer, it came with a Word install disk as well as a full WordPerfect install disk. Now, Word is a subscription. I did buy the upgrade and newer versions of WordPerfect and install it on all new computers I own.
Others hate it and call it outdated. But, I own it. I can continue to install it on new computers and it does spell check, grammar, etc. as standard. It also allows me to install say German and it'll do the same thing. Last time I checked, if I wanted to do the same with Word--back when it was still buyable and not rentable, you had to buy an additional module.
Maybe the gates foundation wouldn't have to give away so much money to poor people if MS didn't price gouge customers making them poor?
It hasn't been "your computer" for many years. Anyone that allows automatic (and especially mandatory) "updates" has no idea what code is being put on _their_ computer.
@@jovetj this is why I don't do auto updates. :)0
Thanks for the video! I held out for maybe 10 years before I ceased fighting for control of my top level 'magic' folders. I especially don't like the legerdemain with the abstraction in file explorer. I think the confusion compounds with the Onedrive folders. I still don't welcome how the standard folders took over but unfortunately it really smooths things out for my purposes if I don't try to fight it. I don't appreciate that they push us this way but there are so many companies that do similar things that I just abandoned this particular hill to stand on. (I install the OS a fair amount and I just got tired of fighting it. :/ - their goal of course.) :)
Greatly explained! I did not know that Microsoft / OneDrive would delete files, what is really unacceptable!
Thank you!
To follow up on this you should mention users should use a 2nd drive or partition, for when windows breaks, all the docs will be left alone during the install, then you can re-add your quick links to them after installing a fresh windows. The other benefit you didn't touch on is ransomware targets the documents, desktop, music etc default folders. meaning you are 99% likely to want the things it encrypts.. but if you use your own drive and own folders, they rarely touch other drives.
On this topic, a 3 2 1 backup is required to make sure your data is actually safe. Onedrive, dropbox, google drive are all able to be used for very important backups, but nobody should put their entire collection of random docs on them and you should choose what to upload, 5gb or 2gb of space isn't a real lot.
Hey Leo, This approach make so much sense. I am sick of hearing about one drive and other such crap from microsoft.
Exactly why I've gone to Linux!
I've never used the One Drive, but I do use the regular folders. I check the one drive, occasionally, to make sure it isn't collecting anything.
I go even further. The first thing I do when getting a new computer, I split the hard drive in 2 partitions and create a D: drive where I put everything that is not related to programs and program settings. All documents downloads pictures files. This way when I backup I can backup everything on D: the rest is installable features. When the computer dies. I just start from clean and install what I need to install and copy my stuff to the new D:
drive.
I'm with you on this one. I started with Vista to put nothing in those folders - at first because of name length problems. Those folders were just too deep into the structure.
I like having my own partitions. Drive A for Personal OneDrive, Drive B for Business OneDrive Drive E for local app profile storage (apps I can control the destination).
I personally have a NAS that I set as default for all my personal data. Makes it a lot easier to just not have any personal files on my computer so if it crashes I just reinstall the OS and programs then pin my data folders back to Windows Explorer. 😁
I do the same
Thanks Leo, I have done the same as you for a loooong time as well. I like my OneDrive manually sorted out for some documents I willingly and knowingly put in there, and everything else I do consciously locally and sync in other ways
Also beware that Disk Cleanup can delete your whole Downloads folder if you check the wrong box. That might include stuff like decompressed archive folders with application data, saves files, etc.