Generic Dungeon Design Tips
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- How to Create a Location Based Adventure
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#dmtips #osr - Розваги
I really like having at least two themes to play off of each other. I just built a buried temple that had themes of “secrets, spirits, madness, and sacrifice” (it was a rather large temple complex) and it worked really well to have different areas that leaned into those different themes. (Secrets were the library, study, etc. hidden away behind secret doors. Spirits were the tombs and sarcophagi the temple maintained, madness was icky cult stuff, and sacrifice was more and different icky cult stuff.)
Each time you manage to find outof this world illustrations for your thumbnails, I love it
I love looking for fun classic art
Midjourney does a pretty good job at generating those I've found, though human made ones have that polish and underlying secret meaning which is more enticing of course
@@TheDetonadoBRofcourse, AI stuff can always generate lesser versions of everything "decently"
In my HOTD inspired game Team Green has learned The First Crown is on the head of a jester statue on Level 17. This Crown will grant special powers to Rule The Land. Currently the Dungeon had only been explored to Level 2.
I'd love a video on deathtrap dungeons! I feel some younger or newer players have a skewed perception of OSR gaming in general due to misunderstanding these types of dungeons. (Myself included at one point).
Indeed!
Just wanted to say thanks for this advice! I decided to make a very small dungeon to test some of the mechanics out and see how much players would explore so I ran a 1 on 1 session with my sister where she controlled a party of 8 and although she didn't find much treasure, she was able to slay several monsters and 7 of her members walked out of the dungeon alive. Overall, it was very fun for the both of us.
Excellent!
12:00 .. mention of 10,000gp, .." so why will that group of adventures ever go out adventuring again ? "
Well, a suit of full plate armor cost nearly a 1,000gp on its own. Riding or war horse with basic gear is between 75go to 200gp. Four to six adventures can go through a 1,000gp very quickly. Depending on the DM, horses get killed very quickly and need replace often.
Historic knights called to service were required to have Five back up horse, three sets of gambesons padded armor, three to five large wooden shields, five spears, and a crew/motley of three to six men to act as back up and camp tenders. Which adds up in funds.
Also of note during the thousand years of French/English conflicts, English law level to women a labor tax and not a coin tax. Weaving was .. women's work .. and it was the women's tax/job to weave the gambesons padded armor, which in some views were just the stander fall/ winter coat to stay warm in. Along for males stander archery practice after church service. As a teenager back in the 1980's & 90's with AD&D, I never could buy in the concept of 0zero-level humans.
The concept of 0 lvl was something I loved back in the 70's and 80's. The reason was that the modules all had shopkeepers of immense power (judges guild city state for example.) The butcher was a 15th level MU, the scribe was a fighter lvl 4 etc. Annoyed the hell out of me, so I made most of them 0 lvl with a few ex fighters etc of lvl 1 or 2.
I suppose judges guild and d&d modules made them so powerful was to stop PC murder hobos, but in my campaign, if the PC's indulged in such activity they would quickly learn about the constabulary, the militia and townspeople vigilante mobs, all chasing them down and putting a bounty on their heads. I even had a group offering their services to the city as 'detectives' or bounty hunters. If caught the PC's would then be thrown into the arena and forced to face a 15th lvl MU, (not the butcher).
Well, that is strange since in AD&D most humans are simply not capable of leveling, while PC and other great heroes / villain actually were special -- meanwhile even experienced battle-hardened soldiers were "0 level" "normal men." Even PCs reduced to level 0 through energy drain could no longer level up and needed to retire (unless someone cast restoration on them). Of course, basic doesn't have a "0 level" concept per se, instead just talking about normal humans, and soldiers were first level fighters (or a few levels higher for officers). It seems, though, that training and experience were not sufficient to be above level 0 in that system, so archery training (or fencing lessons, etc.) would make no difference.
@@MikeWhiskyTango That was a fun read, as for the .. scribe .. being a 4th-level fighter, well many retired European soldiers or landless knights became laymen of the church or monks if they survived to reach the age of forty or fifty years old.
As for real world concepts, not everyone as a teenager let alone a 26yo man is capable of competing in high school level sports, let alone professional athlete sports, so in that a 0zero-level human is possible.
Another view to take in effect from being raised by Great Depression era farmers and bigot azz hole homophobia c0ps. If you don't carry your own weight then someone or your local social group Will beat your backside till you man up.
@@krispalermo8133 There was series based on Ellis books in the UK. It was called 'Cadfael', he was a Benedictine monk who solved crimes. Prior to becoming a monk he had served in the crusades and then as a sailor.
@@BlackJar72 That you for the post.
As a teenage during 1980's & 90's, I had to deal with too much .. specialness .. from teenagers and local adults along with the nonsense of the Satanic Panic. Also the other two rpg my peer group played was TMNT and WEG Star Wars which both those two was more of a skill base system. AD&D never was a skill base system in level growth.
Other note, my peer group was a collection of construction and land scrapers. We as 14yo had better work ethic and knowledge set than the adults in their twenties cause our grand/parent force us to step up in life. So as teenagers we were overly engross in skill development. In short we drop out of school as soon as we could drive and worked construction jobs till we got our GED.
2.) As for AD&D2ndE, it was flexible and stating to play with your own house rules, also had a section in the DMG in creating your own character class. The DMG had a section which stated that the players' PCs were Superheroes of their campaign world. So take that as you will.
Other hand we just made everyone rogues between 2d6 level, cause between mom or granny, they could Hear/ detect noise from anywhere in the house if you were bad mouthing them. Or trying to sneak out at night.
Also being country children, playing hide & seek we were closer to being rogues than anything else. Not forgetting static ability scores which don't improve over leveling up or months/years of weight lifting.
AD&D just had a lot of fun supplement books to read, but we house brew D&D with TMNT just to keep everything fun and fast pace.
Very good video!
I see no problem with running modules. I prefer running my own adventures and encourage others to do so if they want to, but running modules if often easier for those with busy lives who still want to game, so no problems there. For a lot of new DMs, I'll loan them a module to use as an idea factory for their own creations and be there to offer and listen to suggestions, ideas, and concepts. My first boxed set module, B1 In Search of the Unknown, is the one I most often give neophyte DMs so they can read through it, take the advice given, look for neat concepts (of which the module is chock full), and then develop their own ideas and/or reuse some aspects of the module.
In relation to your video, and the aforementioned module, I agree completely that an adventure should have interesting aspects like sloping halls, strange room contents, or other things to make them stand out. There's nothing memorable about a dungeon that is pretty much just blank uninteresting rooms with a monster and/or treasure inside. The stories come in to being from the oddities within the adventure, and we're here to build stories. 🙂
That's a lot of pressure on the dungeon decorators and set dressers
Double Fakeout Dungeon: The dungeon is relatively easy to beat. A few rather obvious traps, some of them already sprung by previous adventurers, some just self-sprung due to material decay, non of them deadly, even if in good condition; there is just one deadly trap, but that one is already sprung. Monsters are just a few swarms of rats, bats and maybe a mini-tribe of Kobolds or Goblins, nothing big. But by all indications, the dungeon is already pretty much looted...maybe a coin or two can be found amongst the detritus that previous adventurers missed.
SPOILERS:
The one deadly trap is a pitfall with spikes at the bottom, a desecated skeleton laying between the spikes and a ricketty board laid across the top. The pit is only an illusion, there are no spikes and once at the bottom, you can see the dorrway into the REAL dungeon where the real treasure is. In this dungeon, there are still only Rats and Spiders and other bugs that are not impressed by mere illusions...also some undead.
I've just discovered your channel yesterday, and I already want to send these vids all players I know
Thank You! Welcome!
Pretty much random generator tables for me. I use a combination of the Delve rules from Ironsworn, my own area generator and a combo of the DMG and Runecairn: Wardensaga.
THe dirtest dungeon building trick I ever pulled was the corridor of traps. It was a pain hallway that went 80 feet then turned left. Every ten feet was a trap. The party gets to the turn and see the hallway goes another 30 feet and ends at a wall. They said screw this and left. Course the thing is that wall had the secret door the dungeon boss used o skip having to walk through half the place.
On man, they missed out there!
Your definition of Mega Dungeon make me think back to an adventure book I had called World's Largesr Dungeon. That was quite a number of sessions.
Cool, I have never heard of that book - do you recall when it was published?
@@BanditsKeep 2004. It cost $100 at the time.
Would love a video on deathtrap dungeons!
For sure
I love death trap dungeons.
As do I
Just in time! BTW random question. Was running Curse of Strahd (5e) and saw in the "playtesters" section that it had been playtested by "Daniel Norton". Was it you or it's just a coincidence?
Yes, just a coincidence - though I did play through that adventure (after publication)
Great stuff, as always, Daniel!
Thank You!
Another great video, Daniel. Thank you. I always learn something when watching your channel. Ever insightful and thought-provoking.
Thank You!
Lol the book said you might roll for the in lair after the encounter.
I think the wilderness stuff assumed you were rolling around with an army and taking on the orcs in a mass battle. You fight all the stuff rolled up. Roll to see if their lair was near by, then roll for treasure.
I think it’s better to do all at once beforehand personally. It also gives information for someone who would like orc mercenaries.
Which book? I think you have to look at the encounter as a process - that is you roll all that stuff at once and announce to the PCs the situation. You don’t fight 80 orcs then check to see if that was their Lair. Also, in most case the game expects you to evade and come back prepared - thus the rules for that.
The Adnd dungeon masters guide.
I’m quoting from the explanatory notes on page 5. Under % in lair
“Whether or not an encounter is occurring in the monster’s lair might be totally unknown to the person or persons involved until after the outcome of the encounter is resolved.”
The purpose seems to be mostly on the type of treasure. %lair was also intended to be used during overworld exploration when people were assumed by gygax to have an army. I assume he’d describe some den or cave for a wild animal and would make up camps or cave complex on the fly for other creatures. I’m sure he had a go to goblin camp design he could use if needed.
I also agree with your process. Roll everything ahead of time. Lets you smooth out bits that don’t make sense and in general make it best and not stopping to roll and consult tables.
I really do think war gaming with armies is intended to happen rather than dungeon delving because that’s kinda what’s described in the dungeon master’s guide.
But after having looked in a bunch of places trying to find the process used(not in the best edition for that because it was assumed you already knew. Maybe BX or 0dnd might have the intended process). I think that quote is there so you don’t give the existence of the lair away. It’s kinda how gygax seems to have been. His players were savy and would not engage in the fight if it was not a lair encounter.
Orcs have underground lairs 75% of the time. With this in mind, the orc king and bodyguards would be reserved for the small scale battle after the war. Their presence would tip your hand and he doesn’t get more soldiers.
Under ‘number appearing’ in the “monster manual” it says “it is not GENERALLY recommended for use in establishing the population of dungeon levels.”
Under ‘treasure type’ “the use of treasure type is not GENERALLY recommended.”
I quote those only to show the intended encounters ie not dungeon. I emphasized generally because I know you have done it in the past but took the necessary actions to balance the numbers of monsters and treasure and wanted to note it wasn’t explicitly disallowed.(although what is really?)
In the 1adnd dungeon master’s guide ‘the campaign’ section under ‘territory development by player characters’: “the player character and his henchmen and VARIOUS RETAINERS must now go to the construction site, explore and map it, and have construction commence”
Later on it talks about patrols, which the player could do but would be better to send armed troops on patrols.
I’m pretty sure older books did similar things with the wilderness exploration stuff but I don’t have those books handy.(Adnd doesn’t actually describe exploration of the wilderness outside building a stronghold). This to say, you raised an army and cleared the surrounding area. Then became a baron or something.
Maybe I missed something else in the books. The organization isn’t always the best(which is partly why your content is helpful)
I think you were supposed to prepare for the exploration and take all comers. However, the book also note things stay there so, prepare and come back is also in play. They also suggest making the treasure so bulky as to require wagons and lots of people. Then when the unprepared come back prepared there’s a chance it’s gone in part or whole.
I don’t think it’s too different from dungeon exploration though. You prepare before the trip for everything you think you might encounter. If you’re surprised, you leave and come back later or improvise.
I’d also say that lots of creatures would have their lair in the area wether or not the encounter was there.
But, most people’s play doesn’t use armies so it’d be useless to limit it to that. Instead making chunks of encounters is valid but I’d also suggest not feeling beholden to the book on numbers and treasure because that wasn’t the original intention.
@@jeremymullens7167 for sure. I mean, you’d still roll to know if it was a lair, you just won’t necessarily tell the players that. i’m not 100% sure about the army thing, I wasn’t there, of course. But in ODD again it kind of expects you are going to evade if you are encountering a large force. You may come back with an army though!
Do a video about curses and PCs that be a fun one. Great work as always
Very fun!
[insert Bruce Willis in Sin City meme saying "good advice"]
just to add something to the conversation, I was hoping you also talked a little about random dungeon encounters versus pre-planned dungeon encounters, but maybe that's in another video. personally, most of my DM schooling was in Dark Sun (2nd e AD&D) in my early teens, and Star Wars in my early twenties, so I've never actually run dungeons (maybe once or twice).
Good topic! I did do a video on random monsters in general a while back.
Would absolutely love a video about a deathtrap dungeon. Have been working on one in a powerful wizards lair for some time now and i sometimes find it hard to visualize what a wizard of that scale would actually be able to do
For sure
Have you ever done a video where you show us how you keep track of your mega dungeons? I am about to start a DCC campaign for the first time, and after doing one of the funnels I plan on doing a mega dungeon. I would love to see how you organize and keep track of it all. I feel like i would get lost in my own design.
great video senpai
Thanks
Always great tips
Thanks!
Would love to hear your thoughts on death traps.
Excellent I shall put something together
Death Trap Dungeon video is a big YES. Please do one oh greatest of greatest Dungeon Master.
Will do!
Daniel, looking good!
Thank You!
Great general advice - esp agree on the 12-15 rooms, and multiple entrances, etc. Although personally I like to level after each adventure or second adventure (I mean, depends on how many sessions the adventures run for).
Do you do that as milestones or put enough XP (gold or monsters) in each session?
@@BanditsKeep previously I used a milestone style system but am moving back towards a simplistic xp table (xp for loot, exploration, combat and social). Which would mean leveling quickly at low level, but increasingly slower as you get higher (like traditional dnd)
I create my own campaign, but I use published adventures as resources. I'm happy to lift someone else's ideas for specific dungeon areas or rooms or just a trap or puzzle. Creating stat blocks and such is not that interesting to me.
Death trap dungeon...Go!
Yes!
Great video, thanks!
Thank You!
16:43 YES IT ADDS SO MUCH DIMENSION AND POSSIBLITY TO CONSIDER *WHY* THE MONSTERS R THERE. I FIND WITHOUT THIS DETAIL EVERYTHING DEGENERATES INTO A MURDERHOBO PARADISE.
That has not been my experience - but I’m also not yelling 😉
@@BanditsKeep U.R. MORE FORTUNATE THAN I. KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!
I liked this
Thank You!
I know it's irrational, but I feel like your advice is 47% more basic because you look like Gary.
😊
Thanks this was awesome
Thank You!