The reason it didn't work is because the Apple TV only boots from its own EFI file that is used for its own OS. In order to boot Linux you need to make a fake mach_kernel (OS X) file that contains a Linux kernel. A mach_kernel that contains the XP kernel/loader doesn't exist yet.
This project might actually be a lot more possible these days, because the XP source code leaked a while ago. The bootloader and everything is also included there. I would suspect that the easiest way for this is probably through making grub-efi or something similar into a mach_kernel and then letting that load the ntldr directly...
i can imagine this isnt very fun for you when it happens but these are my favourite type of videos from you, watching you troubleshoot problems probably no one else has ever had in todays age its just very entertaining
troubleshooting problems like that (obscure problems that yourself caused by trying to do something out of the norm) is absolutely the worst thing I know of when dealing with computers... but at the same time at the end of the troubleshooting you 99/100 times come out with lots more knowledge then you did at the start of the troubleshooting. I absolutely hate when computers don't do exactly what I expect them to do, I never regret learning something new, I might not solve my problem, but more often then not, I do learn something extremely practical.
i can imagine this isnt very fun for you when it happens but these are my favourite type of videos from you, watching you troubleshoot problems probably no one else has ever had in todays age its just entertaining
I have to say, your persistance is admirable. Even though you didn't succeed in your quest to install windows on the apple tv, your video is for sure a success. I rarely sit through a video on youtube longer than 15 minutes, but this had me glued to the very end and I enjoyed every minute of it. If there will ever be a continuation to this project I would run to the nearest store and buy snacks and drinks before watching.
I have to tell you I was in hysterics watching everything go wrong. Seeing you try to use 40/44 pin switches for the reverse of what they were intended was a stroke of genius if it had worked. This really was the best 45 minutes of my day. Thanks Michael!
This video is giving me Druaga1 vibes, the consistent attempts to problem solve along with failures, buying an egregious amounts of adapters to jerry rig a device in an unorthodoxed manner. This felt awesome to see for almost 50 mins.
Speaking at a PCB level, unless there are bespoke integrated circuits on/in those IDE adapters, they *will* work regardless of the direction. The second adapter that was shown is truly a passive device, i.e, a bunch of tiny wires packed into a "sandwich" of laminate/synthetic materials. The resistors on it I believe are purely for the red and green LEDs. There is something that could be done with that second adapter: desolder the bad female 44 pin connector and solder the double male 44 pin connector in place of that original one as it came.
I used to have a Latitude D600. Only real difference was the 600 didn't have BT, the 610 did, and maybe the 610 had a Celeron D and the 600 had a Pentium 4 ? Can't remember. But I got the D600 for my 10th birthday, and being a 10 year old kid getting a full fledged Windows XP laptop, was the coolest feeling in the world. That laptop got me started into the world of UA-cam and lasted me a good 2 years. Miss it. Like seeing your 610 every now and then, my grandma had a 610 lol. I just can't escape that laptop
I had a D600, it used a 1st gen pentium M 1.5GHz cpu (or another pentium/Celeron M counterpart), the D610 used second gen Pentium/celeron M cpus with a faster FSB.
@@joeynebulous816 ah yeah that’s what it was. Such good memories with that laptop. Was a really solid little computer within its realm, the second you started to push it past it limits it showed you it can’t do that but I mean it did everything I wanted it to do until I accidentally killed it with viruses being a kid. (LimeWire 🤣)
I had an Acer Aspire 3690 with a Celeron M 420 in 2020-2021. Now in 2022 changed to an Asus X551CA with 3217U and integrated graphics. But it's not mine of course, it's a family one. I still don't have mine. I'm just used to calling it that.
In XP, when you go to set folder options, you can also set the default action for folders/file folders to "explore" instead of "open" and that gives you the left hand nav pane more consistently in explorer. In case that's relevant.
keep up the good work MJD i cant wait to see more of your videos as i enjoy watching them, and watching what you do because i learn a lot from your videos. And its always cool to see whats going to happen in each episode especially this one tbh i have never seen so many adapters at once just to complete one task. Cant wait to see your next video thanks for the great videos i like to watch them before i fall asleep :)
What you could have done to repair the original Mac OS installation was plug in the hard drive to another pc and change the Mac OS version back on that ext file to see if that would fix the problem. After this, you could have booted up Mac OS and entered system settings. When there you would go to restart settings (something like that) where you can choose which drive to boot from at the next boot. Great video man!
The best such experiment I've done is when I installed Windows 2000 Pro SP4 on my Dad's old busted HP laptop which came with Windows Vista. Just when I start to think that's pretty impressive, I see this video... Well done, keep these going!
The boot MGR, recovery, target disk mode, And diagnostics are likely stored in the BIOS as you can erase the hard drive and still have access to these on a normal MacBook. This also means that they will not be accessible on an Apple TV, meeting it will just boot off of the hard drive every single time. Hope this was useful!
@48:00 you mentioned not having an older intel mac. I do have a 2006 mac mini that was fully upgraded (core duo to core 2 duo upgrade, and max ram upgrade, along with SSD) that i could send to you. i replaced it with a 2014 mac mini for having a modern OS mac sitting on my network.
You could try a push pin to allow the ide adapter to fit onto the ide header then make sure the hdd and DVD drives are set properly master slave cable select. Also set both the hdd and dvd on the same cable instead of trying the usb route since the usb seems disabled on boot which would make sense being an apple device.
You know, maybe this video wasn't a banger because the project couldn't even get off the ground, but that's all the more reason to like and comment imo. You put so much effort into this and made it a fun ride regardless, so the least I can do is give some engagement.
1: the Apple TV can boot USB (that is its first boot priority if it can detect a bootable EFI/UEFI drive, this can be seen with some Apple TV Linux videos like the 8-bit guy. 2. Would it be possible to install Windows 7 (with a UEFI USB (those are different from regular Rufus USB with UEFI!!)) or windows 8 with its stock USB EFI drive *without* using BootCamp? My Mac runs windows server 2019 without bootcamp assistant, only the drivers.
Ah yeah I did forget about that. It is definitely able to boot to those Linux distros if you put them on a USB drive. What's interesting is I wasn't able to get it to boot from the internal drive when it was plugged in via USB. Not sure about using Windows 8 though.
@@MichaelMJD The way that Linux works is that the TV thinks it's booting into the Apple TV OS (since it boots using the stock boot.efi file, which is the only one that the TV's firmware can boot from) but uses a fake Mac OS X (Apple TV OS, but there's no practical difference) kernel ("mach_kernel") that contains a standard Linux kernel. In order to boot Windows XP, you'd need to wrap an XP kernel (or something to load one) into a mach_kernel file, which would require a significant amount of programming knowledge.
Michael, you should try that... I have seen this video 5 times and I saw this comment and the correction on top in the cards section. If it is possible, like to mock the kernel, then I guess you should try it. I know that you have a lot of other work and video plans but I would like to see the followup on this video. Waiting for the USB boot up on the Apple TV first generation.. 😂😂 To the Apple TV 😂😂 You better not show that freaking question mark above the Apple TV logo !!! I hate Michael being sad !!
16:03 - Yeah it seems as if the Apple TV firmware wasn't programmed for the same shortcuts Intel Macs were. The solution to that would've been to go to System Preferences > Startup Disk. If the OSX CD wasn't showing up here, then it wasn't considered "bootable" (this might be because certain OSX builds were modified for hackintoshes)
My god, hearing about rEFIt just brough back so many memories of college and trying to get my 17" MBP to boot windows, linux and OSX. I have no idea why I decided to do that but I did.
Interesting video. I think it is the firmware too. You are trying to make the Apple TV into a general purpose computer when it was not designed to be that. I think you would have to write new firmware for it. Also, when you already have a MacOS command prompt open, just use the "passwd" command to change your user password. Much faster than going back to the GUI control panel.
My assumption here is that that the AppleTV firmware is looking for a specific EFI application, it’s clearly a very cut down EFI from what’s on a typical Intel Mac. Just a guess, but I think for any chance you’d either need to write an NVRAM/EFI setting from a booted copy of OS X, or have an XP/rEFInd modified loader like what’s used in the Leopard image.
Your assumption is correct. In order to boot XP you would need to load a fake “mach_kernel” binary that pretended to be a macOS (the Apple TV OS is essentially macos) kernel but was actually windows. This has been done with linux but never with windows since linux and macos share far more in common than linux and windows.
As I recall Windows 7 did have UEFI support. But they only did that with the 64-bit build. It's not a thing for the 32 bit version of the OS and wasn't available as x86 until Windows 8.
hi mjd, consider taking alook into the hackintosh scene. loads of useful tools for booting there. in general macs only can read the efi files from a fat32 partition. thats where the EFI folder has to sit. love you content an enjoy your work
Yeah I believe the EFI boot partition *must* always be formatted in FAT32. Its the case on every EFI system: Windows 11 on x86-64 and ARM64, macOS, Linux, even Windows XP 64-Bit Edition on Itanium hardware.
Yeah, but a hackintosh booting XP/7/10 through Clover or OpenCore isn't all that interesting. It's basically a regular PC booting regular Windows, just in a roundabout way. It's just about doing something oddball for fun.
@@KiraSlith jep, but for the initial boot process and for loading the necessary efi files clover IST great. If clover runs mjds problem could be solved
I have indeed used a 44pin IDE to 40pin IDE adapter in reverse (very similar to the first one). I don't remember what it was for but it did work. it's just a passive adapter the hardest part is maintaining pin compatibility as the keying the missing pin is either there or not they're. And there's usually no marking as to what pin 1 is. I'm assuming they borrowed from laptop design and the IDE channel could support two drives?
I think it would make more sense to mount an image of Microsoft Virtual PC (Version 7) and use that, which installs a Windows XP virtual machine in OSX. It's aimed at PowerPC Macs, but might work with Rosetta (I'm not familiar with Macs, so that idea might not work)
That would be emulating an x86 OS using PowerPC software, which is itself running in emulation on an x86 machine. The two layers of code translation would make the performance terrible. He might be able to run an x86 virtualisation program natively on the Apple TV, however. (e.g. VMware Fusion, VirtualBox)
In case you change the version string in the plist and screw your machine up: Boot into single-user mode by holding down Command+S, type /sbin/mount -uw / to mount the filesystem as read/write, type nano /System/Library/CoreServices/SystemVersion.plist, edit the file (insert the correct version number), exit nano and then type exit to continue booting into OS X. That should take care of this...
Me: "Man, the last few Michael MJD videos seemed to have gone off pretty hitchless-" Most Recent Vid Title: Installing Windows XP on an Apple TV _but Everything Goes Wrong..._ Me: "Ah, there it is."
Dude! I am loving this I used to do shit like this all the time! It was fun! Of course as I have grown old my eyesight is not very good anymore and I just don't have the energy I used to and my income has improved so needless to say my hobbies have skewed to align with who I am now. Thank you for posting this I am going to subscribe. At my peak with aid from a controlled substance I will not specify. I remember soldering a PC IDE cable to a laptop hdd (needless to say my eyesight was far better) It worked perfectly. I modified old server cases to fit new Mainboards... to many insane projects to name. thank you for this so much fun to watch. BTW the sound of an old 3ft tall solid steel server tower with a 32x CDROM spinning up! I would laugh every time!
I love these. Im curious tho: Have you thought about trying a third party virtual machine? Something that starts the Mac OS, but only has the boot up info, then launches a virtual PC and loads windows
32:23 Vista and 7 support booting from UEFI, but only on the 64 bit version and with CSM enabled, as they still use some components from it. As windows 8 is the first to fully support it without CSM, you can try to install it on the apple tv.
@@johang727 I just found out it only has 256mb of ram and a pentium m. It's way weaker than I thought, but if the pentium m supports PAE and NX (required features for windows 8), you may be able to boot with 256mb.
Why not do.. rEFInd instead of rEFIt? it's a fork of rEFIt, and much more modern and compatible. I'm hoping you'll revisit and try rEFInd, i mean it works on the latest Intel Macs and standard UEFI PCs.
Is it possible you could edit the .efi file to report itself as an OS10 boot image even though it's actually an XP EFI or rEFIt? I dunno, seems worth checking it out in a hex editor.
If you edit the EFI file the TV won’t boot at all, since the TV verifies the file at boot using hashes. The only way that XP could boot is if an XP loader was hacked into a Mach kernel file.
The AplTV shouldn't care about whether the drive is powered on before booting the ATV so it will already have enough time to load the disc and all that (I'm going from using drives in this manner with PC hardware) and even with a power off the disc will be 'loaded' in the drive just the host (PC/ATV) will send the command to read the disc when/if it wants to. If the ATV is using Cable Select (CS) to ID the drives using CS the furthest device from host connector will be master and the closest will be slave (you can set the DVD drive to slave to be sure of this with the pin jumpers), IDE usually can support 2 devices per cable (again PC architecture) but this is a possibility to boot and make this project work. Another thing is that pin 20 (key pin) on a 44 or 40 pin cable is a no connect so you could also potentially break that off the MOBO of the ATV and use a 44 to 40 pin adapter to connect a regular 40 pin cable to the DVD drive then a 40 to 44 pin adapter for the HDD with external power. Hope this helps
So, theory. When you created the EFI folder in the C:\ folder, was that an NTFS filesystem or a FAT32 filesystem? I wonder if you could make a GPT-formatted drive, partition 0 being a FAT32-formatted partition labelled for EFI boot, partition 1 being NTFS, and putting the EFI files in the partition 0.
32:30 Windows Vista and 7 both support UEFI booting, I have such a Vista system installed on a 2010 laptop. UEFI simply didn't overtake/replace legacy BIOS until the Windows 8 era.
Great content Micheal!!! Been watching for years!!! I was wondering, do you think this thing could boot Mac OS Sorbet Leopard? That would be cool if it could!!!
There is an ultimate way to do a WinXp install: 1st connect the 44pin laptop hdd to a Mac or PC, Boot from the WinXp sp2 Disc and do the regular installation best is Fat32 if not NTSF. Let it do the inital installation, when it reboots turn off immedaitely. UNplug the HDD and put it back into the AppleTV and let it boot, it will continue to install XP as it doesn't require the CD anymore. I did this to all my imacs, MacPros and Apple TV too. My Apply TV currently runs Batocera 34 with Old Desktop/Laptop with a 32bit CPU (x86) image on a SD2IDE adaptor on a 256GB MicroSD ;)
Camera: Man i'm tired Michael MJD : Come on focus.. Camera:no Michael MJD: Come on.. Camera: FINE 😩 Then again..... Camera: Nahhh man I cannot do it I'm so tired Michael MJD: This thing's focus is bad as the pcb right now... Camera : ILL PROVE THAT IM THE BEST CAMERA THE WORLD 😡😡😡
The gen1 appletv supports usb booting. However to boot from usb requires a usb storage device with a special partition GUID that the appletv recognizes. This was used to hack appletv without needing to open the case. You used to be able to run a mac program to create this usb stick which formatted the usb stick and installed OS X on it, which then installed a bunch of utilities that hacked the appletv in service mode. It is possible, it just requires a little work. It is possible to install regular Macos this way
Going out on a limb here possibly: what would happen if you put a different bootloader in between ( thinking about GRUB - as it boots Linux and Mac OS can dual boot with GRUB)? Could that connect the dots? I'm not quite familiar with Apple hardware, but I've spent many a night tinkering. I could be wrong, but you never know...
That's what rEFIt is, an alternative bootloader like GRUB. Unfortunately the Apple TV doesn't seem to want to boot off it as is. Since the Apple TV is probably looking for a specific OS and won't boot off anything else.
@@doorknob60 Thanks for clarifying! I read somewhere in this comment section that the Apple TV can boot Linux. That's why I was suggesting trying GRUB as a bootloader. About the Apple TV looking for a specific OS: would that be hardcoded into BIOS then? So, reflashing custom BIOS to jailbreak? Sorry for the many questions. This kind of tinkering really fascinates me.
The fat32 partition is an EFI System partition, that contains the bootloader. The firmware is not capable of reading NTFS formatted volumes so the XP installation failed to boot. It should be possible to get XOM working by manually putting it on the EFI System Partition and installing XP to a second NTFS Partition. Also I am not sure if the drive in the AppleTV is a GPT partition table or MBR, but your xp drive needs to match that setup.
On macs it actually doesn’t even less so on the Apple TV. The Mac firmware will always look for HFS/APFS partitions for the file System/Library/CoreServices/boot.efi or whatever file was blessed/selected in Startup Manager. However the reason why refit and xom doesn’t work is because the Apple TV implements a rudimentary checksum check for the bootloader. Since the boot loader only loads the macOS kernel and driver cache with no additional checks regular macOS and linux can be coerced into running. Probably if someone ports the ReactOS loader to run on the AppleTV XP might be possible to run but you will need a lot of workarounds since Windows versions before 8 still rely on legacy BIOS being present even in UEFI mode
I don’t know if it matters, but is your DVD IDE cable backwards?? Usually the single side goes to the motherboard, and the side with two headers would go to the drives.
All DVD drives can READ dual layer DVDs (since many or even most commercial movie DVDs are dual layer), but only certain ones can WRITE dual layer DVDs. If it didn't work on the DVD drive in the Win98 PC, it wasn't going to work at all.
the apple tv is actually fully capable of booting to USB but it needs special gpt modifications on the usb partition to trick the apple tv into thinking its a recovery usb for restoring the factory firmware
“Everything went wrong” is by far my favorite series on this channel
Thats my life
Goes*
Me 2
Maybe Michael should rename his channel "Everything Went Wrong" 🤔 🤔 🤔
@sleepygraham5482 The whole channel went wrong your saying?
The reason it didn't work is because the Apple TV only boots from its own EFI file that is used for its own OS. In order to boot Linux you need to make a fake mach_kernel (OS X) file that contains a Linux kernel. A mach_kernel that contains the XP kernel/loader doesn't exist yet.
Time to learn xp's boot kernel and the mach_kernel syntax and code to make one that will have it work
so there's a chance a ReactOS modified kernel might boot.....
this
This project might actually be a lot more possible these days, because the XP source code leaked a while ago. The bootloader and everything is also included there.
I would suspect that the easiest way for this is probably through making grub-efi or something similar into a mach_kernel and then letting that load the ntldr directly...
@@Manawyrm The source code leak wouldn't help because Microsoft would just do a C&D against anything using their source code directly
i can imagine this isnt very fun for you when it happens but these are my favourite type of videos from you, watching you troubleshoot problems probably no one else has ever had in todays age its just very entertaining
troubleshooting problems like that (obscure problems that yourself caused by trying to do something out of the norm) is absolutely the worst thing I know of when dealing with computers... but at the same time at the end of the troubleshooting you 99/100 times come out with lots more knowledge then you did at the start of the troubleshooting.
I absolutely hate when computers don't do exactly what I expect them to do, I never regret learning something new, I might not solve my problem, but more often then not, I do learn something extremely practical.
@@svampebob007 terry a. davis would have liked your comment
i can imagine this isnt very fun for you when it happens but these are my favourite type of videos from you, watching you troubleshoot problems probably no one else has ever had in todays age its just entertaining
@@Theunicorn2012 why did you just copy my comment
@@ruinfox4108 it's a youtube bot trying to farm likes
I have to say, your persistance is admirable. Even though you didn't succeed in your quest to install windows on the apple tv, your video is for sure a success. I rarely sit through a video on youtube longer than 15 minutes, but this had me glued to the very end and I enjoyed every minute of it. If there will ever be a continuation to this project I would run to the nearest store and buy snacks and drinks before watching.
Good idea, I’ll get my friend to give us both discounts on them
Spoilers much!
I have to tell you I was in hysterics watching everything go wrong. Seeing you try to use 40/44 pin switches for the reverse of what they were intended was a stroke of genius if it had worked. This really was the best 45 minutes of my day. Thanks Michael!
I am a newcomer to your channel and absolutely enjoyed your installing Windows operating systems on the old $5 Windows 98 PC.
ok EB The Original Master
@@arubberroomwithrats he's not the original master now
@@Qwerty-uiop fr
Oh yeah! What happened to the 98 pc? I don’t See it anymore
@@arubberroomwithrats Do you have a problem?
This video is giving me Druaga1 vibes, the consistent attempts to problem solve along with failures, buying an egregious amounts of adapters to jerry rig a device in an unorthodoxed manner. This felt awesome to see for almost 50 mins.
God I miss the one true smoker
im so glad i wasnt the only one who thought this
Speaking at a PCB level, unless there are bespoke integrated circuits on/in those IDE adapters, they *will* work regardless of the direction. The second adapter that was shown is truly a passive device, i.e, a bunch of tiny wires packed into a "sandwich" of laminate/synthetic materials. The resistors on it I believe are purely for the red and green LEDs. There is something that could be done with that second adapter: desolder the bad female 44 pin connector and solder the double male 44 pin connector in place of that original one as it came.
I love this installing but everything goes wrong series. they're all very entertaining and informative at the same time.
I used to have a Latitude D600. Only real difference was the 600 didn't have BT, the 610 did, and maybe the 610 had a Celeron D and the 600 had a Pentium 4 ? Can't remember. But I got the D600 for my 10th birthday, and being a 10 year old kid getting a full fledged Windows XP laptop, was the coolest feeling in the world. That laptop got me started into the world of UA-cam and lasted me a good 2 years. Miss it. Like seeing your 610 every now and then, my grandma had a 610 lol. I just can't escape that laptop
Wow
I had a D600, it used a 1st gen pentium M 1.5GHz cpu (or another pentium/Celeron M counterpart), the D610 used second gen Pentium/celeron M cpus with a faster FSB.
@@joeynebulous816 ah yeah that’s what it was. Such good memories with that laptop. Was a really solid little computer within its realm, the second you started to push it past it limits it showed you it can’t do that but I mean it did everything I wanted it to do until I accidentally killed it with viruses being a kid. (LimeWire 🤣)
I had an Acer Aspire 3690 with a Celeron M 420 in 2020-2021. Now in 2022 changed to an Asus X551CA with 3217U and integrated graphics.
But it's not mine of course, it's a family one. I still don't have mine. I'm just used to calling it that.
I'm 18 years old now. The first computer I used was a laptop, and that was in 2012. I was eight years old at the time.
_"It's always a MJD video when something goes wrong."_
-sun tzube, art of internet
best fake quote of all time
so real (also marker teapot/beeffbee/beefdeewhy!!!)
I always enjoy your Windows XP videos! I have a ton of nostalgia for that OS.
I remember some of XP
In XP, when you go to set folder options, you can also set the default action for folders/file folders to "explore" instead of "open" and that gives you the left hand nav pane more consistently in explorer. In case that's relevant.
Claim your late ticket here:
Edit: MOM IM FAMOUS
Claim your WAYYY to late ticket here 🎫
@Istealbeans oop
too la8 m8@Istealbeans
@@Iandonutguy Wth is your translation?
@@angheloemanuel1660the long jibberish is the Reply ID, youtube comment translatons break that sometimes
USB booting should be possible. I remember the 8 Bit Guy did a Video years ago about an alternative firmware for this Apple TV from a flash drive.
i saw that too
keep up the good work MJD i cant wait to see more of your videos as i enjoy watching them, and watching what you do because i learn a lot from your videos. And its always cool to see whats going to happen in each episode especially this one tbh i have never seen so many adapters at once just to complete one task. Cant wait to see your next video thanks for the great videos i like to watch them before i fall asleep :)
What you could have done to repair the original Mac OS installation was plug in the hard drive to another pc and change the Mac OS version back on that ext file to see if that would fix the problem. After this, you could have booted up Mac OS and entered system settings. When there you would go to restart settings (something like that) where you can choose which drive to boot from at the next boot. Great video man!
The best such experiment I've done is when I installed Windows 2000 Pro SP4 on my Dad's old busted HP laptop which came with Windows Vista. Just when I start to think that's pretty impressive, I see this video... Well done, keep these going!
I love that his desktop background at 14:55 is “Bliss”, but how it looks now, when he went to see it
I love how Eddy reliable trustman is always in your videos!
The boot MGR, recovery, target disk mode, And diagnostics are likely stored in the BIOS as you can erase the hard drive and still have access to these on a normal MacBook. This also means that they will not be accessible on an Apple TV, meeting it will just boot off of the hard drive every single time. Hope this was useful!
Great video as always, the amount of time you invest into making these is impressive, keep it up because despite being long it's still fun to watch
Even though sometimes your experiments do not work, I love to watch people in a problem solving state of mind.
@48:00 you mentioned not having an older intel mac. I do have a 2006 mac mini that was fully upgraded (core duo to core 2 duo upgrade, and max ram upgrade, along with SSD) that i could send to you. i replaced it with a 2014 mac mini for having a modern OS mac sitting on my network.
You could try a push pin to allow the ide adapter to fit onto the ide header then make sure the hdd and DVD drives are set properly master slave cable select. Also set both the hdd and dvd on the same cable instead of trying the usb route since the usb seems disabled on boot which would make sense being an apple device.
Seeing XP running is making me nostalgic for it again. It is the one operating system that I legitimately miss.
You know, maybe this video wasn't a banger because the project couldn't even get off the ground, but that's all the more reason to like and comment imo. You put so much effort into this and made it a fun ride regardless, so the least I can do is give some engagement.
1: the Apple TV can boot USB (that is its first boot priority if it can detect a bootable EFI/UEFI drive, this can be seen with some Apple TV Linux videos like the 8-bit guy.
2. Would it be possible to install Windows 7 (with a UEFI USB (those are different from regular Rufus USB with UEFI!!)) or windows 8 with its stock USB EFI drive *without* using BootCamp? My Mac runs windows server 2019 without bootcamp assistant, only the drivers.
Unfortunately Windows 7 doesn't support 32 bit EFI booting
Ah yeah I did forget about that. It is definitely able to boot to those Linux distros if you put them on a USB drive. What's interesting is I wasn't able to get it to boot from the internal drive when it was plugged in via USB. Not sure about using Windows 8 though.
@@MichaelMJD The way that Linux works is that the TV thinks it's booting into the Apple TV OS (since it boots using the stock boot.efi file, which is the only one that the TV's firmware can boot from) but uses a fake Mac OS X (Apple TV OS, but there's no practical difference) kernel ("mach_kernel") that contains a standard Linux kernel. In order to boot Windows XP, you'd need to wrap an XP kernel (or something to load one) into a mach_kernel file, which would require a significant amount of programming knowledge.
@@DistrosProjects That makes sense, thanks for the info!
Michael, you should try that... I have seen this video 5 times and I saw this comment and the correction on top in the cards section. If it is possible, like to mock the kernel, then I guess you should try it. I know that you have a lot of other work and video plans but I would like to see the followup on this video. Waiting for the USB boot up on the Apple TV first generation..
😂😂 To the Apple TV 😂😂
You better not show that freaking question mark above the Apple TV logo !!! I hate Michael being sad !!
THiS !!! Now you gave me (even more) ideas for my channel ! Thank you so much ! :D
Ah. Its a good day when mjd uploads.
Edit: Wtf 20 likes POG
A 50-minute "Everything Goes Wrong" video, no less. These are always the true gems of this channel.
16:03 - Yeah it seems as if the Apple TV firmware wasn't programmed for the same shortcuts Intel Macs were. The solution to that would've been to go to System Preferences > Startup Disk. If the OSX CD wasn't showing up here, then it wasn't considered "bootable" (this might be because certain OSX builds were modified for hackintoshes)
My god, hearing about rEFIt just brough back so many memories of college and trying to get my 17" MBP to boot windows, linux and OSX. I have no idea why I decided to do that but I did.
I got Windows 7 running on my early-2006 iMac with rEFIt once, it had a bad disk drive and wouldn't except USB drives
Interesting video. I think it is the firmware too. You are trying to make the Apple TV into a general purpose computer when it was not designed to be that. I think you would have to write new firmware for it. Also, when you already have a MacOS command prompt open, just use the "passwd" command to change your user password. Much faster than going back to the GUI control panel.
My assumption here is that that the AppleTV firmware is looking for a specific EFI application, it’s clearly a very cut down EFI from what’s on a typical Intel Mac.
Just a guess, but I think for any chance you’d either need to write an NVRAM/EFI setting from a booted copy of OS X, or have an XP/rEFInd modified loader like what’s used in the Leopard image.
Your assumption is correct. In order to boot XP you would need to load a fake “mach_kernel” binary that pretended to be a macOS (the Apple TV OS is essentially macos) kernel but was actually windows. This has been done with linux but never with windows since linux and macos share far more in common than linux and windows.
@@DistrosProjects and since Windows and its kernel is closed source so we might not know much abt it to work with it ig
As I recall Windows 7 did have UEFI support. But they only did that with the 64-bit build. It's not a thing for the 32 bit version of the OS and wasn't available as x86 until Windows 8.
hi mjd, consider taking alook into the hackintosh scene. loads of useful tools for booting there. in general macs only can read the efi files from a fat32 partition. thats where the EFI folder has to sit.
love you content an enjoy your work
Yeah I believe the EFI boot partition *must* always be formatted in FAT32. Its the case on every EFI system: Windows 11 on x86-64 and ARM64, macOS, Linux, even Windows XP 64-Bit Edition on Itanium hardware.
Yeah, but a hackintosh booting XP/7/10 through Clover or OpenCore isn't all that interesting. It's basically a regular PC booting regular Windows, just in a roundabout way. It's just about doing something oddball for fun.
@@KiraSlith jep, but for the initial boot process and for loading the necessary efi files clover IST great. If clover runs mjds problem could be solved
I have indeed used a 44pin IDE to 40pin IDE adapter in reverse (very similar to the first one). I don't remember what it was for but it did work. it's just a passive adapter the hardest part is maintaining pin compatibility as the keying the missing pin is either there or not they're. And there's usually no marking as to what pin 1 is.
I'm assuming they borrowed from laptop design and the IDE channel could support two drives?
Even when things go wrong, it's still fun to watch!
I love the way you did the recap, i skipped the video and i knew everything that happened because of the recap. Instantly subscribed!
I think it would make more sense to mount an image of Microsoft Virtual PC (Version 7) and use that, which installs a Windows XP virtual machine in OSX. It's aimed at PowerPC Macs, but might work with Rosetta (I'm not familiar with Macs, so that idea might not work)
That would be emulating an x86 OS using PowerPC software, which is itself running in emulation on an x86 machine. The two layers of code translation would make the performance terrible.
He might be able to run an x86 virtualisation program natively on the Apple TV, however. (e.g. VMware Fusion, VirtualBox)
No, Virtual PC doesn't work on Intel Macs. An old version of VMWare Fusion or Parallels might work though.
In case you change the version string in the plist and screw your machine up:
Boot into single-user mode by holding down Command+S, type /sbin/mount -uw / to mount the filesystem as read/write, type nano /System/Library/CoreServices/SystemVersion.plist, edit the file (insert the correct version number), exit nano and then type exit to continue booting into OS X. That should take care of this...
Me: "Man, the last few Michael MJD videos seemed to have gone off pretty hitchless-"
Most Recent Vid Title: Installing Windows XP on an Apple TV _but Everything Goes Wrong..._
Me: "Ah, there it is."
Watching your "everything goes wrong" videos while trying (and failing) to fix my own broken setup is...somehow helping me feel better
At least the “Does it run Windows XP?” Question didn’t even know if it works on Apple TV even needed to work via VM.
Try this:
Find a tutorial on how to disable the firmware
Boot on a computer with the apple tv Hardware
Then do the (maybe rEFIt) Installation
disable the thing that makes the computer work, fucking genius
@@mewity 🤫🧏
oh no its the infamous "Everything Goes Wrong"
12:53 Well guys that’s the end of the video, thanks for watching! Like and subscribe!
*Outro Music*
Awesome content as always brother!
So much work goes into these videos❤ Thank you!
Dude! I am loving this I used to do shit like this all the time! It was fun! Of course as I have grown old my eyesight is not very good anymore and I just don't have the energy I used to and my income has improved so needless to say my hobbies have skewed to align with who I am now. Thank you for posting this I am going to subscribe. At my peak with aid from a controlled substance I will not specify. I remember soldering a PC IDE cable to a laptop hdd (needless to say my eyesight was far better) It worked perfectly. I modified old server cases to fit new Mainboards... to many insane projects to name. thank you for this so much fun to watch. BTW the sound of an old 3ft tall solid steel server tower with a 32x CDROM spinning up! I would laugh every time!
But can you install tvOS on an old Mac mini?
that actually sounds more useful than this lmao
The Computer Clan would be proud of you, with your conversion technology! 😁
I know, youtube just recommended this video to you now
Nope, I was on his channel
I love these videos because no matter how much goes wrong, we still learn something. Thank you so much! ❤😊
"Mom, can we have Apple TV"
"We have Apple TV at home"
Apple TV at home:
I have no idea about what you’re talking about but I love the videos 💙💙
I love these.
Im curious tho:
Have you thought about trying a third party virtual machine? Something that starts the Mac OS, but only has the boot up info, then launches a virtual PC and loads windows
It's been a year and a day since you've uploaded this video... GGs, @MichaelMJD
32:23 Vista and 7 support booting from UEFI, but only on the 64 bit version and with CSM enabled, as they still use some components from it.
As windows 8 is the first to fully support it without CSM, you can try to install it on the apple tv.
Windows 8 on a Frist Gen Apple TV? I don't even wanna imagine that
@@johang727 I just found out it only has 256mb of ram and a pentium m. It's way weaker than I thought, but if the pentium m supports PAE and NX (required features for windows 8), you may be able to boot with 256mb.
Why not do.. rEFInd instead of rEFIt? it's a fork of rEFIt, and much more modern and compatible. I'm hoping you'll revisit and try rEFInd, i mean it works on the latest Intel Macs and standard UEFI PCs.
It's so much fun watching someone screwing around this to breach all the barriers :D
Is it possible you could edit the .efi file to report itself as an OS10 boot image even though it's actually an XP EFI or rEFIt? I dunno, seems worth checking it out in a hex editor.
If you edit the EFI file the TV won’t boot at all, since the TV verifies the file at boot using hashes. The only way that XP could boot is if an XP loader was hacked into a Mach kernel file.
41:47 this is the right amount of adapters
correction 44:38 this is the right amount of adapters
Installing Windows 11 on Apple TV
The AplTV shouldn't care about whether the drive is powered on before booting the ATV so it will already have enough time to load the disc and all that (I'm going from using drives in this manner with PC hardware) and even with a power off the disc will be 'loaded' in the drive just the host (PC/ATV) will send the command to read the disc when/if it wants to. If the ATV is using Cable Select (CS) to ID the drives using CS the furthest device from host connector will be master and the closest will be slave (you can set the DVD drive to slave to be sure of this with the pin jumpers), IDE usually can support 2 devices per cable (again PC architecture) but this is a possibility to boot and make this project work. Another thing is that pin 20 (key pin) on a 44 or 40 pin cable is a no connect so you could also potentially break that off the MOBO of the ATV and use a 44 to 40 pin adapter to connect a regular 40 pin cable to the DVD drive then a 40 to 44 pin adapter for the HDD with external power. Hope this helps
So, theory.
When you created the EFI folder in the C:\ folder, was that an NTFS filesystem or a FAT32 filesystem?
I wonder if you could make a GPT-formatted drive, partition 0 being a FAT32-formatted partition labelled for EFI boot, partition 1 being NTFS, and putting the EFI files in the partition 0.
That may work as that was the partioning done in Windows Longhorn
32:30 Windows Vista and 7 both support UEFI booting, I have such a Vista system installed on a 2010 laptop. UEFI simply didn't overtake/replace legacy BIOS until the Windows 8 era.
Great content Micheal!!! Been watching for years!!!
I was wondering, do you think this thing could boot Mac OS Sorbet Leopard? That would be cool if it could!!!
There is an ultimate way to do a WinXp install: 1st connect the 44pin laptop hdd to a Mac or PC, Boot from the WinXp sp2 Disc and do the regular installation best is Fat32 if not NTSF. Let it do the inital installation, when it reboots turn off immedaitely. UNplug the HDD and put it back into the AppleTV and let it boot, it will continue to install XP as it doesn't require the CD anymore. I did this to all my imacs, MacPros and Apple TV too. My Apply TV currently runs Batocera 34 with Old Desktop/Laptop with a 32bit CPU
(x86) image on a SD2IDE adaptor on a 256GB MicroSD ;)
Fun channel you've got here, SUBBED!
Thank you!
School tech support: Have you restarted your "Apple TV"?
Try Clover, OpenCore or the old chameleon Bootloader
Camera: Man i'm tired
Michael MJD : Come on focus..
Camera:no
Michael MJD: Come on..
Camera: FINE 😩
Then again.....
Camera: Nahhh man I cannot do it I'm so tired
Michael MJD: This thing's focus is bad as the pcb right now...
Camera : ILL PROVE THAT IM THE BEST CAMERA THE WORLD 😡😡😡
Claim your early ticket here:
thanks
yeet
Thanks. Windows XP ftw
Thanks m8
Thanks mate
The gen1 appletv supports usb booting. However to boot from usb requires a usb storage device with a special partition GUID that the appletv recognizes. This was used to hack appletv without needing to open the case. You used to be able to run a mac program to create this usb stick which formatted the usb stick and installed OS X on it, which then installed a bunch of utilities that hacked the appletv in service mode. It is possible, it just requires a little work. It is possible to install regular Macos this way
Going out on a limb here possibly: what would happen if you put a different bootloader in between ( thinking about GRUB - as it boots Linux and Mac OS can dual boot with GRUB)? Could that connect the dots? I'm not quite familiar with Apple hardware, but I've spent many a night tinkering. I could be wrong, but you never know...
ah yes the limb
That's what rEFIt is, an alternative bootloader like GRUB. Unfortunately the Apple TV doesn't seem to want to boot off it as is. Since the Apple TV is probably looking for a specific OS and won't boot off anything else.
@@doorknob60 Thanks for clarifying! I read somewhere in this comment section that the Apple TV can boot Linux. That's why I was suggesting trying GRUB as a bootloader. About the Apple TV looking for a specific OS: would that be hardcoded into BIOS then? So, reflashing custom BIOS to jailbreak?
Sorry for the many questions. This kind of tinkering really fascinates me.
This was absurd and over the top with adapters……… and I love it!😂
Before seeing the ''but Everything Goes Wrong'' text in the title, I already knew this was a bad idea..
Awesome video, Michael!
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This is the most "why?"video I've seen of yours and I'm loving it keep it up
Who's watching in 2024
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I love your videos i hope one day you get to 1 million subscribers keep up the good work man i really love your content 😁❤
Claim ticket for late only allowing 1000 likes
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thunfisch
The string under ProductVersion in the plist file shows 10.5.8 instead of 10.4.11.
Maybe that's the problem?
UwUntu on it when?
Hehe
bro 😭😭😭
The fat32 partition is an EFI System partition, that contains the bootloader. The firmware is not capable of reading NTFS formatted volumes so the XP installation failed to boot. It should be possible to get XOM working by manually putting it on the EFI System Partition and installing XP to a second NTFS Partition. Also I am not sure if the drive in the AppleTV is a GPT partition table or MBR, but your xp drive needs to match that setup.
On macs it actually doesn’t even less so on the Apple TV. The Mac firmware will always look for HFS/APFS partitions for the file System/Library/CoreServices/boot.efi or whatever file was blessed/selected in Startup Manager. However the reason why refit and xom doesn’t work is because the Apple TV implements a rudimentary checksum check for the bootloader. Since the boot loader only loads the macOS kernel and driver cache with no additional checks regular macOS and linux can be coerced into running. Probably if someone ports the ReactOS loader to run on the AppleTV XP might be possible to run but you will need a lot of workarounds since Windows versions before 8 still rely on legacy BIOS being present even in UEFI mode
35:08 That "Welcome back once again..." finally killed me hahahaha
All DVD drives with the official DVD logo on them can read dual layer dvd’s. Writing to a dual layer DVD came later, totally different thing.
You said you were looking for suggestions. Have you tried turning it off, and then back on again?
Thankyou for this, I struggling with getting my new purchase of a windows xp laptop to boot, im not the only one suffering.
I don’t know if it matters, but is your DVD IDE cable backwards?? Usually the single side goes to the motherboard, and the side with two headers would go to the drives.
All DVD drives can READ dual layer DVDs (since many or even most commercial movie DVDs are dual layer), but only certain ones can WRITE dual layer DVDs. If it didn't work on the DVD drive in the Win98 PC, it wasn't going to work at all.
I love the Frankensteining of the connectors, reminds me of so many repair efforts I've done.
every time you upload my day is instantly better
you should totally make a discord server
This is a really good video. You just got a new subscriber!
Great persistence Mike!
Any chance the apple TV is rejecting the disc drive because it's not det3cting current draw on the power pins?
I latterly Exclaimed “Oh my GOSH! When I heard the Nero burn bit. Wow, It’s been a while, lol!!
the apple tv is actually fully capable of booting to USB
but it needs special gpt modifications on the usb partition to trick the apple tv into thinking its a recovery usb for restoring the factory firmware
Yeah that must have slipped my mind while filming this, lol.
IS there anything you won't try when it comes to old computers and computer-like devices? :-)