Wow! This completely explains the feedback you gave me in the video I sent you! I get it now! Of course, actually doing it is a different matter! BTW- I could care less if FISA allows you to use their video or not. I'd watch if you were providing analysis of novice rowers! In fact it may be even more relevant to those of us who are not elite. Thank you!
I used to compare it to an excellent long jumper, hitting the take off board at perfect speed and timing. This is excellent further explanation. Great work. Thank you
Thank you. I have long believed in the a soft catch and accelerating to a middle loaded drive but I keep quiet because at clubs they hammer mechanical instructions into everyone. Nobody thinks or experiments, they just follow. The general feeling is that if it feels hard you must be a real star athlete giving it your all. I don’t strive to follow the instructions because the feel of the stroke acceleration, the efficiency of not wasting so much hitting a wall with a hard front loaded catch, and the ability to keep consistent horizontal blade depth just below the water, and connection to the end from leg hips lats is obvious to me. It’s the same as so many people thinking rigging is just for comfort, but they don’t realize it is the very thing that makes or breaks whether you can actually achieve efficient technique for your specific height and physiology.
Whats your thought on why most elite Rowers use the plain edge smoothies instead of the ones with vortex edge or Conceot2's Fat2 Blades? Here in Germany many club crews and national team rowers row the smoothie vortex blades (f.e. GER LM2X, GER M1X Zeidler, some of the Rowers in the Quad and double use them in the 1x) While watching the worldcups I can see mostly plain edge blades
Having tried the Randallfoils and now working with them, I must say that everything else feels pretty much out-dated and similar. So, I think it is just a personal preference which out-dated blade shape seems to "fit better"; plane or with vortex edge. The fact that other teams use this or that is often pure marketing or sponsorship related.
I find the C2 rower seems to reward a hard catch. Do you see that and the corresponding difference in the handle force at early stages of the stroke on the C2 vs dynamic rowers and on water force curves?
This could be. In my opinion, all linear drive ergs, no matter what they are called and how "dynamic" they may be - all of them make athletes lose their mobility and understanding for the boat. It is not so much a brain thing, but body-motorics which are learnt by repetition.
@@AramTraining I have the belief that too much emphasis is placed on the OUTCOME of Erg machine rowing and we have forgotten that we race on water for RESULTS. I have seen too often some athletes are excluded because the first question asked, "what is your Erg Score". But when you track the athlete, the guy or girl wins a lot of races!
How do you take into account the bending of the oar with the timing of the drive? You place a lot of emphasis on the point when the oar handles are perpendicular, but even with "stiff" modern oars, this is oftentimes not when the shaft/blade is perpendicular. The blade would then have to "catch up" to the shaft with its whipping motion. Perhaps a front-middle leg drive (a hybrid of the two extremes you demonstrated) would result in the blade coming through the perpendicular point with as much force behind it as possible, since it takes time and length (~1/4 stroke length it seems) for the impulse at the handle to travel down the shaft. How do you think this handle and shaft lag affects the timing of an efficient leg drive/point of peak force application?
Front-loaded drive makes as much sense as explosive yanking at the bottom of the deadlift. The more force you try, the more your body absorbs. Just like the deadlift, you have to be organized and then once there is movement you can thrust with power through the hips. Rowing seems to be the same since the fundamental movers are the same.
And even in the startings stroke of a race, i dought, that I can apply a force as high as in an deadlift.... And even there I never 'killed my shoulders or hips.
"Why? I am convinced....thats why!". Regardless of whether you are right or wrong, you need to come up with some more evidence based or rationale/explanation for what you are saying....Once you begin your video like that I stop listening....
I’m watching this with my team, W video
Are you on capital city rowing?
@@Grassy89 yeah the only rowing team in Tallahassee
Wow! This completely explains the feedback you gave me in the video I sent you! I get it now! Of course, actually doing it is a different matter! BTW- I could care less if FISA allows you to use their video or not. I'd watch if you were providing analysis of novice rowers! In fact it may be even more relevant to those of us who are not elite. Thank you!
Thank you Aram and Alex ! Crystal clear explanation and demostración !
I used to compare it to an excellent long jumper, hitting the take off board at perfect speed and timing. This is excellent further explanation. Great work. Thank you
This is a really usefull for all teams and more
Thank you. I have long believed in the a soft catch and accelerating to a middle loaded drive but I keep quiet because at clubs they hammer mechanical instructions into everyone. Nobody thinks or experiments, they just follow. The general feeling is that if it feels hard you must be a real star athlete giving it your all. I don’t strive to follow the instructions because the feel of the stroke acceleration, the efficiency of not wasting so much hitting a wall with a hard front loaded catch, and the ability to keep consistent horizontal blade depth just below the water, and connection to the end from leg hips lats is obvious to me. It’s the same as so many people thinking rigging is just for comfort, but they don’t realize it is the very thing that makes or breaks whether you can actually achieve efficient technique for your specific height and physiology.
Thank you very much for your comment. I agree with what you say. I have experienced this as well.
Word 👍
Whats your thought on why most elite Rowers use the plain edge smoothies instead of the ones with vortex edge or Conceot2's Fat2 Blades?
Here in Germany many club crews and national team rowers row the smoothie vortex blades (f.e. GER LM2X, GER M1X Zeidler, some of the Rowers in the Quad and double use them in the 1x)
While watching the worldcups I can see mostly plain edge blades
Having tried the Randallfoils and now working with them, I must say that everything else feels pretty much out-dated and similar. So, I think it is just a personal preference which out-dated blade shape seems to "fit better"; plane or with vortex edge. The fact that other teams use this or that is often pure marketing or sponsorship related.
I find the C2 rower seems to reward a hard catch. Do you see that and the corresponding difference in the handle force at early stages of the stroke on the C2 vs dynamic rowers and on water force curves?
This could be. In my opinion, all linear drive ergs, no matter what they are called and how "dynamic" they may be - all of them make athletes lose their mobility and understanding for the boat. It is not so much a brain thing, but body-motorics which are learnt by repetition.
@@AramTraining I have the belief that too much emphasis is placed on the OUTCOME of Erg machine rowing and we have forgotten that we race on water for RESULTS. I have seen too often some athletes are excluded because the first question asked, "what is your Erg Score". But when you track the athlete, the guy or girl wins a lot of races!
So true!!!!
does the bi rower have different resistance the deeper the blade goes?
vertical hand stability does effect the readout
How do you take into account the bending of the oar with the timing of the drive? You place a lot of emphasis on the point when the oar handles are perpendicular, but even with "stiff" modern oars, this is oftentimes not when the shaft/blade is perpendicular. The blade would then have to "catch up" to the shaft with its whipping motion.
Perhaps a front-middle leg drive (a hybrid of the two extremes you demonstrated) would result in the blade coming through the perpendicular point with as much force behind it as possible, since it takes time and length (~1/4 stroke length it seems) for the impulse at the handle to travel down the shaft. How do you think this handle and shaft lag affects the timing of an efficient leg drive/point of peak force application?
Front-loaded drive makes as much sense as explosive yanking at the bottom of the deadlift. The more force you try, the more your body absorbs. Just like the deadlift, you have to be organized and then once there is movement you can thrust with power through the hips. Rowing seems to be the same since the fundamental movers are the same.
I lost one of my foils a few days ago. Rip. :(
Does this apply to sweeping as well as sculling?
I believe that the principle is the same, although force curves should not be as congruent
Nobody gives a sh* how much you legpress. But the kilos most rowers can deadlift are still quite impressive! ;)
And even in the startings stroke of a race, i dought, that I can apply a force as high as in an deadlift.... And even there I never 'killed my shoulders or hips.
"Why? I am convinced....thats why!". Regardless of whether you are right or wrong, you need to come up with some more evidence based or rationale/explanation for what you are saying....Once you begin your video like that I stop listening....
Nobody forces you to watch... I am looking forward to your video. I am always learning