Do Power Conditioners Really Work? Snake Oil?
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- This video demonstrates whether or not a power conditioner actually cleans and filters the electricity going to your devices. If you are looking to purchase a power conditioner for your music studio, then you definitely need to watch this before you buy a power conditioner. I used a broadband EMI Meter to show proof of the power conditioner's performance. Are they worth it? Depends on why you need one.
You can get the broadband EMI meter here amzn.to/2J1c4ip
Pro tip set playback speed to 2x, you're welcome!
Thanks!
Pro Tip, 1.5x speed actually sounds better because you can actually hear every word. 2x speed blurrs words together.
I settled on 1.75x lol
I’m watching this on 0.5x speed
@@RyanHarris77still watching it? :)
I have an EMI meter which measures around 800 mV on every circuit in my house. I installed a temporary dedicated line and for the same results. I bought a very expensive brand of power conditioner and it reduced it to around 600mV. I bought 2 Tripp-Lite 500 watt Isolation Transformers, only $300 ea. Each reduced the EMI noise to around 10mV. That is not a typo. The Tripp-Lites reduced the EMI noise to around 10!
I suspect there are other sources or noise in the line but only very expensive equipment can detect other kinds of noise.
Wow, thanks for sharing
Brother - that initial reading of 183 mV strikes me as quite good - I’ve seen other demonstration videos here on UA-cam where outlets were generating 1000 mV or more of interference. I’de be damn happy with that sort of baseline in my studio.
The whole thing of 25 mV or less is incorrect?
@@johnmartin5153 what would be an accurate number? .. if there is such a number.
@@7Wounds that’s what I’ve heard but to be honest with you I’ve heard so many different things from so many different people I’m confused as hell now 🤷🏻♂️
Time to study into this deeper
I concur that 183 mV is quite good. In the industry, 5% distortion is acceptable for line power. Calling it "noise" is irrelevant. A good linear or switching power supply turns it into DC regardless. That Green Power thing, that's snake oil.
I noticed that you did not have a grounding pin on the cord that you were plugging in to the units. Reasoning?
You can tell it has a non-polarized plug also, by the 'reference' (non fluctuating) voltage switching from top to bottom between different outlets... ughh
I'm really glad you made this video. Regardless of the terminology used, it proved an incredibly useful visual. I almost got the furman and i'm glad I didn't waste my money. I own a studio as well and need to clean up my power.
I have seen numerous sources say *actual* power conditioners are pretty expensive. If you had the budget, I'd be curious to see you buy a relatively expensive power conditioner to test that theory. After all, after you do the test, you can just return it. I live in coastal florida and it storms A LOT; my power goes out regularly and the power company is constantly restoring our power due to lightning. I own a lot of studio gear and nothing would make me more unhappy than losing it because of a storm.
Thanks bro...I'm looking at the Niagara product. I've heard good things about it. I understand how you feel. Gotta protect your gear man!! Especially in Florida.
try this;
ua-cam.com/video/RibTdDAYXs8/v-deo.html
A, depends on the power and wiring in your home. Nothing is going to clean up bad wiring. That Furhman is from 2001 to 2012.. Here's a test with someone using the same EMI meter who has it jump up to 189 when plugged into the wall. On the high power banks he got 22 to 23. The other four low power banks didn't due so we'll but you really want the high power analog devices in those to protect. Digital has hardware in it to control power but analog is where you really hear the noise.
The guy tested another brand and it was just as bad. Really these are only needed for analog eequipment,, usually tube amps.If you've spent 20K plus on a home theater system then I'm would personally get a sine wave battery backup but good ones are not cheap.
The only other company I have see besides Furhmann that works is iFI, but it's more expensive although the iFi AÇ purifier plugs into one outlet while you plug a surge protector in the othe and it fixes the noise in a different way then most line comditionars.r. You can also plug it directly into your surge protector. Let's say you had a nine outlet surge protector and 4 analogue devices and four digital devices. You would put the iFi in the middle and four devices in-between (4 analogue on the left, 4 digital on the right.
Really these are only needed for very expensive Audio setups and older equipment like turntables, DACs, tube amps and DACs. I just got one and really wish I had that EMI reader to do some testing.
While not used as.muvh anymore, power line adapters add tons of noise. Considering that they use your existing home wiring to extend your LAN/Wifi that's not shocking but the iFi removes all of that.
So, you need the right set of circumstances for these to improve anything one other is older houses with no ground line. They still exist. So bad electricity that an electrician can't fix, or would be ridiculously expensive with expensive reference analog gear. I don't think these make much difference with digital as most digital equipment can handle the power fluctuation, at least to an extent.
ua-cam.com/video/eq6Wpd7Egg8/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/X5V1JOSjbRA/v-deo.html
Yeah I am using it as a surge protection. But the fact that they do help somewhat is an extra bonus.
Thanks for this test.
Clean/dirty depends on how you are looking at it. A power conditioner regulates voltage. Not every place is wired the same...just like people. We all know that annoying "buzz". High and low spikes in voltage. Millivolts is what the EMI meter was measuring in. Conditioners, in theory, reduce the spikes in voltage that can "dirty" up the sound.....the sound.....less buzzing. Does not "clean" the electricity so much as it regulates it. Which gives you a cleaner sound.
You sound just like Tyrone from Ownage Pranks. Great video btw
Thought the same exact thing.
I am running my Distributed Analog Converters (DAC) on 2 mono volts (mV) which is like only 2 rather than 100 of the multi kind.
LMFAO!!!
I play live on stage and do occasional studio work.
I use a Monster 1100 Power Bar from the wall to power a Monster 2500 Power Conditioner, an ETA PD9 Power Conditioner to give clean power to a 16 space rack system and large effects pedalboard full of digital effects processors and analog effects units.
I never had EMI , RFI, hum or hiss in my system.
When I take my digital effects processors ;;Digitech 2112 SGS, RP-12, RP-1 in for a check up with a tech, all the capacitors are still 100 % fuctional and my sound on on stage or in the studio, is clean and prestine.
Doctor DirtySound and the Multi-Volts of Electricity
The conditioners don't filter dirty power.... they smooth the sinusoidal A.C. wave form and maintain a constant voltage over varying loads. Get an oscilloscope if you want to see what they do.....
Hmmm.....good info. You seem to be very knowledgeable. Thanks for the tip. I'm not an expert, just a consumer trying to figure out whether or not I wasted my money on this gear. Thanks again.
Enjoyed it. Honest and straight forward testing we can all relate to and understand. Thanks Nat for getting us thinking again about clean power.
You're welcome
Thank you for performing a scientific test on power conditioners. The Internet has needed this for a long time. Would you be willing to review the audio quest powerquest 2 or 3? Thanks!
Thanks for the comment. I dont have one of those units, but if I get one I definitely will test it out for everyone.
@@natcoziay You're very welcome, I'll subscribe in the event you do. Thanks!
👍thanks!
Are you a truck driver?
@@natcoziay Yessir, 48 state longhaul out of Oregon
If your electricity is dirty why dont you clean it with some water?
409 makes some good power cleaner!
No offense but I think you are thinking on Power conditioner as Insolation Transformer, those are different things. Power conditioning helps to remove noise from other devices drawing power from a wall. So you have to run this test with multiple equipment running to see how well these remove noise. A Insolation Transformer is what cleans electricity but they require a proper galvanic ground.
A way to see it, a power conditioner is like water filter, while a isolation transformer is like having your own clean water reservoir.
thank you NAT!!! I HAVE BEEN WONDERING!!! this is real shit, it's what the people need. "multivolts." despite your misknowledge, you still have a legitimate scientific reasoning and demonstration. very helpful.
You're welcome. Thanks for watching.
@@natcoziay agreed, good video. It’s all nonsense.
I should have said. I was able to build a filter to any sensible layout . I ended up using a simple 4.4 uF shunt filter. I would liken that to maximum dose paracetamol with strong coffee. I was left with the feeling the meter was more the snake oil device. It's like a light meter they doesn't say what the exact problem is. One experimenter used 25 uF..That seems very close to the mains frequency.
Are the 2 conditioners grounded (that is with a third prong inserted on a properly grounded socket)? If not, you surely will get a lot of EMI. Just grounding alone will reduce significantly the EMI, and further reduction on connecting to conditioner, that is why I have found.
Yes they are grounded.
So basically, they offer some surge protection, neatness behind the rack and some visual esthetics to the rack???
You got it
183v without any filters is actually darn good on your location. Unless you had nothing really plugged in on that circuit that is.
Great video man, it's should be helpful for audio lover,,, i just learning something new....
Thanks for making a helpful video....
You're welcome
Cool he told us they dont work, respect... SO what do we do to clean up the power?
Either get something like an Audioquest Niagara 1200 or have a dedicated power line run into your studio. You will need an electrician for the dedicated line. The Audioquest Niagara costs around $1K
Great job Nat, thanks for sharing..
Thank you, no problem.
Mine doesn’t indicate a steady 120. It shows 128. I bought it from Amazon, should I return it?
Are you referring to your power conditioner?
@@natcoziay correct
No don't send it back, there is nothing wrong with it. That number is the voltage amount coming from your house. Some areas have higher or lower voltage outputs depending on the time of day. That has nothing to do with the power conditioner itself. The power conditioner is letting you know that your house is putting out 128.
@@natcoziay keep in mind I have a P-1800 AR, it’s a voltage regulator that promotes converting regulation to steady 120 (-/+5). I sent an email to Furman and posted a question on Quora. Folks at Quora suggest I may need to add more load.
@@ReynaldoIvanPena ok I see. I still think the power conditioner is fine.
Yes, I can clearly see the 183 multi-Volts. Even though I have no Idea what a multi-Volts might be???
I have dirty multiamps. Is that bad?
Depends on how much multiwatts the device is using.
You guys are multinuts lol
No. You can never have too many dirty, filthy amps. Ditto guitars. 😉
MULTI VOLTS ? YOURE KILLING ME
A lot of multiamps will kill you too! CAUTION
So what do we do guys ? Any suggestion ?
Was that an active or passive power conditioner?
The Truth! in the REAL WORLD. Thank you for this, now to APC or Belkin.
very good and instructive test
So what's the best thing to use for Studio to get clean energy
Check out the audioquest niagara 1200. It's supposed to be really good. That's what I plan on getting.
we know that thing will reduce noice from plugs, but the true factor is and only is, will it make the systems sound better
No, of course not.
Could you do a test with ferrite cores?
Have you tried using the Greenwave Filters?
No I haven't
I’m looking for audio quality improvement as well for my Home Theatre. I just ordered an EMI meter and those filters. Hopefully I see a difference.
I have done research on audioquest. Their reviews are good. I will be getting the audioquest niagara 1200. I hear it's the best on the market right now
Check this vid out. It may work.
ua-cam.com/video/1pW9WTiNuls/v-deo.html
@@D1Calderon any updates about filters? looking to try some
Gotta look out for those multi-volts. lol
I have it worse. Dirty multiamps!
Look into shunyata research they have noise reduction cables and power conditioners
Saved me money. Thanks.
Furman is better than monster.... what happens if you run a power conditioner into a power conditioner?
hey nat coziay is a pure sine wave converter better
@@Meditationisthebestmedicine Absolutely! Those other inverters can damage your electronics. Always go pure sine wave if you can afford it.
@@natcoziay hey i appreciate your reply,
I live in an apartment with a smart meter if you have one replace it for the vintage original mechanical meters the smart meters have radio frequency and wireless transmission and that is causing dirty electrictiy the UN planned this smart meter smart grid bullshit.
anyways in my apartment i have a shit ton of dirty electricty and i bought one of the meters off of ali experess and im tryna fix my dirty electricity problem. i just dont want
dirty ac to come out of the pure sine wave inverter also i think im looking for a pure sine wave inverter UPS but at this rate im not sure i just dont want dirty electricty
Get a good battery backup... No surge, no undervolt. Protects equipment.
I don't think you can make a sweeping judgement based on an entry-level power conditioners...you get what you paid for...the more you pay...the better the filtration...it's like cars...can't expect the same performance out of a Yugo than a Mercedes...the Furman you used doesn't even have LiFT filtration...Furman has Elite and IT versions that eliminate all noise...I currently use a Panamax m5400-pm for my home entertainment system...and one can clearly see and hear the difference in tv, projector and sound system....
What's it supposed to be at?
I am not an electrical expert...but from what I know, the closer you get to zero, the cleaner the signal
Misspelling must be a trend nowadays to attract more viewers!
Great review thanks! Please try the new Audioquest Niagra 1200. These power products are not of high quality.
Thanks. I'll look into that.
It's $1000+ dollars.... not for the faint of heart.
In reality, cleaning up "dirty electric" is usually negligible to zero in the vast majority of so-called power conditioners. I have an expensive Furman PL-PLUS DMC Power Conditioner and the dirty electric signal in my wall outlet is 56 mV and any outlet on the Furman itself is worse at 169 mV. So yeah, according to my Greenwave EMI Dirty Electricity Meter, the Furman is NOT cleaning up the dirty electricity.
Hello Andy, What Power Conditioner do u recommend? I'm in the Market for a Power Conditioner? Thanks!
@@williestyle2345 Hey DJ. Well, I'm waiting on the Radial Engineering Power-2 to come out soon. I'm interested in testing if the Radial Power-2 has the capability to reduce harmonic noise "dirty electric". But as far as reducing dirty electric, I'm using several Greenwave and Satic plugin filters thought my house and in my sound studio for that task. Most so-called power conditioners are mostly for maintaining consistent voltage and nanosecond clamping in case of over-voltage to protect your gear. I'm thinking of installing a Satic Power Perfect Box at the electric panel in the future.
This is all meaningless. It is the same as cleaning your laundry, before you put it into the Washing machine. Yes, your device have a emi filter cleaner itself, every device has And a transformer too. If device A does a poor job, sell it. It is junk. Buy a device with proper emi. You do not keep a bad washingmachine either, do you? Proper emi filtering does bot cost much, it us deart cheap. What a wonderfull solution. Why do we drool to spend way more money for unproven and not needed technology?
ok since u proved they dont do sit, ill give you 20 bucks for both
I imagine a lot of the real work would include redoing a ton of the electrical wiring and components in your studio or building (Which is one of those "crap out of luck deals if you don't own your own place or are in an apartment, etc.) like "dedicated lines" on top of having something like this. It seems like at least the Furman was trying to do something, and shaved off around 40-60 Mv on certain plugs. I imagine getting clean power into a studio is going to take a lot more than one little rack unit can do without going up into some insane price point. Even then i'd be skeptical. I was looking into Furman units to use as a good power supply / surge protector with some added features. Seems like the more I look into them the more questions get raised than answered. Thanks for the video! Appreciate the info!
Yeah it seems to be a black hole. But the audioquest niagara 1200 seems to be the best bet right now. Look it up. Right now it's hard to find one because of supply shortages, but it has great reviews.
@@natcoziay Wait, aren't those like 10k+ $$$? Edit: Wait, nm. I was thinking of the 7000 20 amp. My bad. Im trying to set up a small studio of my own just for fun to noodle around in. Been watching a lot of videos. Yours here was by far one of the most helpful i've seen. Subbing for sure!
@@onokomi9723 thanks. The audioquest Niagara 1200 starts at $1k. Still not cheap, but more cost effective than hiring an electrician.
Multivolts?????
Quick fucking saying "multi-" volt. It's millivolt (mV). Even the product description on the device you're using says that word.
You cannot make a sweeping statement that all power conditioners do not do the job based on a test of 2 different units. You need to do the leg work or alternatively go to a trusted supplier that knows there sh#t before making a purchase! Also, how do you know the test gauge you are using is not the issue??? Paul McGowan from PS Audio is one of the foremost audio experts on the planet. Check out this video: ua-cam.com/video/8oFlgPPp9XA/v-deo.html or Lenny from HIFI U's video @ : ua-cam.com/video/YDqobV6doGk/v-deo.html
Try a PowerQuest3
At least the furman is consistent
I’d suggest buying an “online ups”. Converts ac to dc and then back to ac. It’s like having you own power plant without waisting money on some pos from ps audio etc... most office supply stores carry ups units.
Many UPSses are not suitable for audio. The give a block waveform. A transformer goes bezerk on that.
I wish my electricity was that dirty! lol so pretty much is just BS?
*millivolts. Not multivolts
That is NOT dirty electricity at all
Can you please educate me on what dirty electricity is? I am not an electrical expert so I sincerely would like to know if you have the time to explain. Thank you kindly.
0% reduction though.
Those are basically high current power distribution with a few stages of filtering aka power conditioner. You need to look at power regenerators or something like a Richard Gray substation/ or just talk to an electrician since you are recording /mixing/ playing back music. Also look at a getting another meter.
Thank you for that. That is good to know. Do yo have a meter recommendation?
this is way off the chain. i could fix this in a day. proper grounds and wire n.
would have been great if you were like. Do power conditioners work... No, and thats it for this one.
Very helpful!
WTF is a multivolt?
Dirty electricity, |I wash it in the sink while I do the dishes!!!!!! Where do they come from what country has multi volts???? Let me guess.
MILLI volts. Great eye opener though
MULTIVOLTS??? So much for your knowledge! Bad review, move on!
It’s millivolts. It all depends on how the circuit was wired in the wall. What other devices are also wired to that circuit in your home. There is more to it than what you are describing. I bet you could get the numbers much lower with an electrician paying a visit. Thank You for the video.
Well the point is that when you use power conditioners in your rack for live gigs, you do so in order to clean the electricity you get from the venue.
He’s just debunking the myth.
It's millivolts" Thanks captain. If you know everything why are you on UA-cam? Shouldn't you be reading a book or something?
@@FabioPoianMusic No debunking a myth because the conditioners dont claim to clean the power only a ReGen will do that. If it is dirty going in its dirty going out. It is a massive misconception that people always think a conditioner cleans the power it will only filter certain spikes in certain frequencies to eliminate noise for a better sound floor. And yes everyone it is millivolts not multi volts. But thanks to Nat for taking the time to do the video and the comments to help and educate people...
@@mattmoshercom They keep a more "consistent" flow of electricity. Not to mention regulating voltage, since that is why I bought mine. To regulate voltage which in turn does what you have already explained. Never know what kind of place you are walking into. At least with a power conditioner you should have "cleaner" power/sound...buzz free.
Isn’t a millivolt is just one thousand of a volt, so nothing to do with whether your power conditioner is doing or not doing.
Thanks for the video. According to Amazon, this measure a broad range of dirty electricity frequencies (approximately 3 kHz -- 10 MHz). However, if you check the spec of a lower cost Furman conditioner, it typically say filter only 10 khz and up. May be that is why the power conditioners didn't get the level down that much.
This makes sense
Good point
Where can you find the spec of a furman conditioner that says filtering the 10khz? I can't find it in the spec on Furman web. Thanks!
There are no specs of Furman (or any other conditioner), because it is easily measureable...@@haowu3319
10 kHz is within the range you stated ( 3kHz - 10 mHz )
An isolated, dedicated circuit is what you need. Hook up your line conditioners once that’s accomplished. Also, have your home ground checked. Home builders often take shortcuts on wiring.
Hey Bro. It is not called "multi volt". It is called "milli volt". 148 mV means 0.148V and this ist a very low reading. You need ~ 15 times this value to run a red LED. The important thing is, how much energy the 0.148 mV can deliver. What this means is, are these 0.148mV able to deliver some current or will the voltage drop down. The mains filtering is done in the appliances. There are filters an caps inside the power supply that smooth out any voltage variation before a very clean dc voltage is delivered to the electronics. The biggest impact does have the components used inside of your amp or mixer and so on. Especially the quality of the used caps.
In my opinion all these filtering and cleaning devices are nonsense. The point is... if you believe in its effectiveness you will hear a difference, even if it is not there.
Would be cool to see what a cheap EMI surge protector measures and a UPS
Great to see the real world effect the filters have. Thanks for posting Nat. Any device to plug in will have it's own filtering that will cleanup that unregulated power. The filter is more important to trap far greater spikes.
Multivolts huh? Well it would take a bolt of lightning.
lol he said Multi-Volts or is it Maga-Volts no it’s Mad-volts!!! Wait it’s Millivolts!! The answer is correct I greet you my friend.
Multivolts?? Just learn first the BASIC technical terms before you make a video. -- millivolts not multivolts
Yes. I winced everytime he said that. Still, I'm grateful for this video. It has helped me a lot.
Let's see You make a video if you think your that clever, you put yourself out there. Money where your mouth is.
Bahaaaahaaa..!! "Multi"-Volts"...hahaaaaaaa...!!
best laugh all day... "Multi Volts" Durty Powar.. learn the units of measurements bruh before trying to be technical...
hahaaa.
Can't take advice on electrical stuff seriously from someone who talks about "multivolts".
This is dangerous. I’m getting used to multivolts instead of millivolts
Mohahahah
What the hell is a multi volt?
@@BigAl60504 I guess volts but multiple
I need a painkiller after hearing multivolts about 200 times. I think 30 multigrams of oxycodone should do the trick. 😄
What did you expect using cheap power conditioners ? Try a Gigawatt or Audioquest, and the result will be very different ...
dude, it's not that simple
Care to elaborate?
mV is millivolts, an electrical term, a division of one volt.
normally yes, but we aren’t in Kansas anymore. Now we are in emi and rf territory. mV is a unit of measure of something entirely different here.
The meter is the problem. Almost like a Ghost detector. To be useful it would have common mode and differential mode separation. A spectrum analyser would be handy. 10 kHz to 5 MHz is a useful range. I have tried a device like this at home and found the same as here. Using my 25 MHz analyser I found nothing down to - 70 dB. I use a medium cost filter unit.
Which device so you use?
Multivolts are cool 🙂
Your voice at times sounds like Denzel Washington's voice.
Lol...I need Denzel's money though!!
That green wave is sweet. I’d love to see more testing with some of the higher end conditioners to see if they actually do anything. Would also love to see if on a regenerator.
interesting experiment with curious results. i would like to see the wave form on the ac line with an oscilloscope. thanks for sharing
Puritan power conditioners have good reviews, there a little pricey but might be worth it... check out OCD hi fi guy.
what did you end up getting instead? home studio guy
I didn't get anything. My power source is clean enough to get by. I don't want to waste money on snake oil products. I think the best option is a dedicated power line. That way at least you know you're not being swindled.
Absolutely valuable video. So, How to solve problem of "dirty electricity"?. Does anyone tried a true online UPS (AC-DC-AC conversion) an then notice the output voltage is really cleaner than input one?. Thank you.
UPS with sine conversion in DC->AC are rare. Usually they use square signal to avoid energy loss on sine generation using transistors logic.
But if ignore it is square it is clean of other noises.
Isolation transformers are the only thing that really works. I use them in my studio
Do a video on audiophile fuses, they make a huge difference.😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Thank you, Sir :D
I needed to know about M8DX, looks like garbage to me. I just bought Furman ELITE15 DM i
If you want me to post my findings, just like my comment, so I remember to post up the results.
I will test the unit using Trifield Dirty Electricity tester
Yes please let us know your findings.
The units you are testing are passive units and stop gap solutions. Real power conditioners are very expensive and use active components.
Thanks
What do you think about the audioquest niagara 1200?
@@natcoziay welcome actually I am waiting for you to review that 😉
You could try a isotek evo3 power conditioner, they get amazing reviews from / upscale audio
MULTIVOLTS LMFAO! 😆😂😂🤣🤣
MoronVolts 👈🏼👏👏👏
With Furman at least, you get what you pay for. There more premium offerings do a much better job at filtration but they cost $1000++
The fundamental problem is that anything produce noise on the line, if you filter it, your equipment will generate a minimal amount of noise, that may end up on your track when recording.
Unless you use pro-grade equipment in a studio with proper gauge wires with proper insulation with proper filtering before they get to the actual plug; you are still dealing withe issue in a way or another.
For home studios, I can't really tell the difference to be honest, using a regular surge protector
Hey Nat, What If You Stack The Conditioner? One To Condition The Second? Outcome?
Can someone suggest a low noise power conditioner
1000mv is 1v ain't it? conditioner vs voltage regulators. Those numbers is pretty good. So if it's 183mv that about .183v. Yeah that all good. I can see if it's beyond 120v then the millivolt reading should be super high. wow maybe need AC to DC power converter.
Now this just remind of an issue before which we ended up replacing breakers/wiring size and outlet. The measurement was not in millivolt. Sometimes old stuff will eventually need to be replaced as in commercial building that have many things ranging from motors to fridge, relay lighting system and more.
now only few things i can recall the difference in sound with conditioners. It had to do with what transformers mainly used then if its a good voltage regular then the conditioners will be great. All i can say is i still prefer Toroidal but dang expensive and heavy.