D&D Is Betting It's FUTURE On The 80's?! 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide Preview!
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- Опубліковано 28 тра 2024
- The Character Sheet is back with more Fantasy and TTRPG news as we look at the new D&D Dungeon Masters Guide 2024, and see how Wizards of the Coast and D&D are once again turning to 1980's nostalgie to try and build the future of D&D...and if that is really the best idea for the games future! So how does the new Dungeon Masters Guide 2024 hit players with that 1980's nostalgia bait...and just what are the dangers of having so much of their 80's content like the D&D Cartoon and the old D&D toy lines tied to the FUTURE of D&D 5e and their new 2024 Core Rulebooks?
Find out as we show you the new DMG 2024 cover, and dive into the pros and cons of Wizards of the Coast and D&D going all in our 1980's nostalgia to try and sell Core 2024!
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Are you a fan of D&D bringing back so many 1980's Characters and lore for the Core 2024 Rulebooks? Let us know!
We are not old, we are high leveled.
Lvl 420
Time to pull a gold box and reincarnate to level 1 for another go and eventual godhood!
Impertinent noobs, with their advantage, and their subclasses, and their tortles. In my day, we delved 20 levels, every day, through trolls, both ways, with only 20 hit points! And we liked it that way!
@@Ironoclasty 20 whole hitpoints? I was a magic user and on a good day I had 4 hitpoint! =P
@@mythrando Well, some day you may get to level 9 and enjoy those sexy 20 hp. My cleric knew each one of those hit points so well, her vow of chastity was in jeopardy.
This is pretty awesome. I mean normies won’t care either way. They are just going to like the art. Old school fans will like it. No one loses.
Yeah, it is a little easter eggs for the fans of the older stuff. The real question is will that limit appeal to the newer fans? But only time will tell!
@@TheCharacterSheet Why would there be a limit? Newer fans still do for example not know who Vecna is. The respresentation in 5e has nothing to do with much of his lore.
Dude DnD is for normies now 😂😂😂
Warduke was in The Shady Dragon Inn in 1983, concurrent with the release of the LJN toys and the Dungeons & Dragons cartoon where he also appeared. He then appeared again in Quest for the Heartstone along with several other of the LJN toys characters, but some of them were in The Shady Dragon Inn before that as well.
Yes, he's still '80s nostalgia; but, he existed before the toys or the cartoon did.
I think this just embraces all of d&d lore and history. ALL of it, including the more "silly" parts. Sort of embracing "play the game how you want to". And I love it all.
“Have to be over 40 to be born before these characters”
Emotional Damage!
I think it's a pretty good idea for a number of reasons. On the one hand, most of these characters are pretty strong designs, which make for great visuals for the newcomers who have no frame of reference, and for oldsters like me who actually remember them (and owned that one BECMI module where the toy-figure characters got statted) it's some neat nostalgia, so win-win. On the other hand, by not featuring lore-heavy characters , they don't have to interact with that lore (and folks today have no idea that half the lore characters are native to Greyhawk, anyway, something that I just took for granted as someone who was around in the hobby when TSR first licensed the Forgotten Realms), which is good since these are core rulebooks, not setting guides or adventures (a principle that they seem to be embracing with how they're using Greyhawk in the DMG and the public statements they've made about it, though it's yet to be seen if they actually stick to it). And since it's all part of a 50th Anniversary project, leaning into the whole history of D&D for source elements celebrates that.
Nice use of Dodgeball!!
I'm 51 and yes I have many fond memories of playing with the D&D figures and fortress of fangs. That thing was awesome! :)
Absolutely love the art. I am late 20s in age but i love they are using these iconic characters.
I mean, Vecna has been around since the original set of pamphlets in 1974 or so, before even the Basic Set or AD&D, and he's the flavor of the month in May 2024.
I play in person with 6 other people. Most of them are Millennial and Gen Z adult professionals and get a kick out of the fact that I have characters older than most of them. These kind of things are fun easter eggs that give me a chance to share some of the old lore from the early days. You know, when we had to walk to the dungeon through the driving snow uphill both ways.
Nostalgias bait is the correct term, But I think all those fish have swam onto warmer waters.
I've made my wisdom save... not buying into this.
I would say that I made my save vs psychic damage. But, as a Gen-X’er that turns 50 this year, I know you’ll actually just forget to target me when you cast it. 😂
I'm impressed that he actually said the words Gen X in the video. He must have passive perception off the charts to get past our generation's inherent invisibility!
I knew Venger before I knew about the game Dungeons & Dragons. This kids' show played reruns over and over again in the in the 2000s in my country. I grew up thinking it was just a cartoon. 🤣
I think it's just a matter of them embracing the entirety of dnd history, it IS the 50th anniversary after all. And coincidentally all these characters are different enough that they serve as a pretty good "oooh that particular one looks cool, i wanna play something like that :0"-representation for newcomers to the hobby. Like, this Venger actually looks pretty sicc ngl. The cartoonishness is scaled back just enough that it doesn't look goofy but you can still get a feel for the slightly pulp-y, slightly wacky brand of high fantasy that the rules are geared towards.
That is a fair point, it's just funny that so much of it is from like a 4 year window in the 80s :D
@@TheCharacterSheet. There were modules in the late 80s and 90s that included some of these characters, most notably WarDuke and Strongheart.
Everyone today knows who Vecna is from Critical Role and Stranger Things.
Using him as your marketing centerpiece probably doesn’t gain anything.
However, the strong visuals of characters like War Duke, Venger, and Strongheart will likely appeal to newer players.
Using those older characters may entice older players who never gave 5E a chance to at least take a look at it.
Revitalizing the old characters in an "updated" system is a smart play. One, it's been a decent marketing strategy for the brand, especially considering that they are celebrating 50 years. Not to mention that there are tons of 40+ (myself included) who played and loved the game for decades. Two, character growth is a huge part of the game. Seeing the images of old character grown and matured speaks to game itself. We get to see them all leveled up which is a boon imo.
As part of the age group you describe who had some of the figures and played with them, I must say that this intrigues me. I’m hoping it’s not just art. I hope they incorporate these characters into the mythos, using them in examples throughout the book, stuff like that. Forgotten realms is all well and good, but this actually got me excited to buy the books. And that’s a hard sell because the system is much too crunchy for my taste.
You aren't alone, we are hearing from a lot of people in that age group that are super excited for the new stuff now.
Let me say yes and for those in the back of the room…YES!! This art is on point, the theme is bang on. It’s the 50th Anniversary of D&D. Modernization of the old images is the right play.
I’ve gone back to BECMI. Best thing I ever did in the D&D universe!
I did as well. 5th edition has been on my nerves since Tasha's came out. They are devoid of creative talent at WotC. I miss art where the adventurers looked from another time or place and not like they were in CosPlay.
i love that old classic 80's nostalgia stuff, and for those that don't know it, they won't care anyways because the characters are all still cool/fun looking
They finally realized a big market are the Gen X, those 50 to 65 year olds, will be their staying market. That age group has a tendency for nostalgia and resist change (because getting old). Before you comment, I am speaking from personal perspective, as I am 50 with many friends that go up to 65; and most are not interested in learning yet another game system.
I watched the D&D cartoon when it first aired, and my reaction upon seeing the new DMG cover was "What the [explative] is Venger doing there?" but not in an "I hate it" sort of way, it just seemed like a weird choice.
That said, I barely used the Forgotten Realms or Grayhawk settings back in the day (Though I did use Ravenloft and Al Qadim) so the "big name" characters have never meant much to me either.
I love that these awesome characters appear on the PHB and DM's guide. I played with these toys as a child and love them greatly. But let's not forget that these are just covers to the books. I don't think they will affect that much the opinions of those wanting to buy the 6th edition. I will say if I was going to buy 6th edition and I probably won't, I would buy those covers over the special editions. And we are not old, we are seasoned veterans of the gaming wars.
Being old enough that you played with the toys does not equal psychic damage, but EMOTIONAL Damage, sir. I know of which I speak.
Fair point!
I turn 49 in a couple months. I had these action figures when I was younger. I'm excited to see these figures on the 50th anniversary covers. My 11-year-old, who grew up with 5e, think the new covers look great, too. I don't think nostalgia matters. Warduke looks cool whether you grew up in the 80s or not (imo). Also, the characters also featured in the 1984 module XL1: Quest for the Heartstone and the 1983 supplement AC1: The Shady Dragon Inn.
For those of us who watched the cartoon, it's nice to see our fave characters on the covers of these books.... but that's about it! With the way D&D is right now, there's little to attract us back to playing if we've stopped, or if we are still playing, we're not going to touch any of the new books, regardless of who's in them, as we've already included them in our games! It's way too little, way too late!
I'm actually old enough to have played with those but was completely unaware a toy line existed I always thought DnD too niche to be toys I had a hard enough time finding other dorks to play with DnD with back then
Al those villains you've named already have books where they starred. In a lot of ways the 2024 books are really the 50th anniversary books. They are embracing all of DnDs history.
I think they're just trying to create more IP characters that they can license.
I loved the cartoon, back in the day, and own them all on DVD but even as a Gen-Xer I'd never bought any of those toys. And them on the cover is kinda cool, I guess, but it's not really a selling point for me. Maybe for collectors as a collector's special edition or something? Maybe?
Well I'm just gonna pull the "early Gen Z" card.
I think it's great they're digging in to the 80s characters and whackier aspects of their lore.
When I started out I downright hated most of the official Forgotten Realms setting because it seemed so dull and half-arsed. Only after digging around the Forgotten Realms wiki for ages did I begin to develop some appreciation for it. Stuff like this seems to be a way better way to highlight that this is a game with 50 years worth of history and settings to explore.
Not to mention the designs are eye-catching and will probably make you want to find out more.
Can't say looking at the art of the 2014 PHB evoked any sort of feeling like that.
reruns of the Dungeons and Dragons show showed up a couple times in the 90s so some millennials would know the Saturday morning cartoon characters. at my grandparents cottage there was a Warduke action figure kept there.
As long as the art is better than what was on the original covers it's ok.
Cover seems at best ok, ill be looking for the alt cover
they never appeared in modules until now? sorry but wrong on that point, XL-1 Quest for the heartstone was a module that encouraged people to buy the ljn toys to use with the module.
As a member of Gen Z who has only played 5th edition, doesn’t give a picofuck about Vecna, and just watched the D&D cartoon last year, I am *hype* to have Venger on the front of the book.
Stanger things also has 91 nostalgia too since venca didn't come as a villain till 91
Old guy here, Verna is one of the original villains of D&D, he was first introduced in the third official supplement, Eldritch Wizardry in 1976, ie the hand and eye of vecna magical items and their description revealed the lore behind Vecna. He continued being a Pat of the game, and his lore included in each consequential DM’s guide of 1st and 2nd edition and into present day. I think the confusion is that Vecna didn’t get his first actual adventure appearance until the early 90’s with Vecna Lives… which would have to incur that Vecna had lived in the lore before. Just a heads up.
@gonzo529 yeah but the villain him self didn't appear till the adventure venca lives that came out in 1991
I played with them. Make of that what you will.
It’s easier to market something old and ‘classic’ than something brand new, while WotC has probably exhausted all its current branded settings.
Long live BECMI. Long live red box.
It's quite controversial they leaning on the Dungeons & Dragons cartoon while cancelling the Portuguese translation. Caverna do Dragão is HUGE for 80s kids from Brazil.
it's more about cross-referenciality, they re-instate characters who have cool designs and a past in DnD's history because we can do *insert sitting leonardo meme' it's okay to have some new old stuff my man, don't fret
Maybe hasbro wants to make figures of those old cartoons again either way cool art covers regardless
Plenty of the people I play D&D with weren't even born until the late 90s/ early 2000s, so they idea that they would have nostalgia for a time they never lived through is unlikely.
Meanwhile, the D&D cartoon didn't even release in the UK until I was already... well, I was ten years old, and it felt childish to me. I'd already been playing a couple of years at that point.
Thanks for reminding me how old I am.
I'm crying, I wanted to play the new DND but I'm Brazilian 😭, I've played it a few times and I loved it, I just don't play it anymore because there's no point in it, there's no more DND in Brazil
If it was 5E I'd be more hyped but I'm still kinda hyped.
Not buying it tho cuz money & I'm not learning a new system when I'm not even done with the old one.
This is some next-level concern-trolling for clicks.
I wonder if the internet was to reintroduce previously successful characters to a new generation hoping they'll be successful again? Broaden the scope of their current line-up of widely recognized characters?
I guess one can make a case for the DnD cartoon characters but I don’t get the nostalgia for crappy looking toys that ended up in the discount bins.
Very cool new art with these characters, the obvious pessimism in the narrator's voice is hilarious
This just feels like dnd is not the place for me, pathfinder and Dagger heart here I come.
Don't fool yourselves about trying to entice the old-schoolers. They showed how much they wanted our business when they stabbed us in the back with 4th Edition. Nobody I've gamed with ever showed any interest in the action figure line, and the cartoon was cool as a novelty, but it was for little kids, not hardcore gamers. Quick trivia fact: They cancelled the D&D cartoon because they said it promoted violence, and they replaced the time slot with . . . wait for it . . . Big Time Wrestling!
I am nearly 50. Lol
Is it 6th Edition?
Par for the course. WotC creates very little for D&D. Even though they've owned the game for as long as TSR did, most of what they produce is just a rehashed version of something they bought from TSR.
Long time DM c1980first time commenter. I have maintained my AD&D books for 30+ years and am not interested in buying the new editions. It wasn't broke and didn't need fixing. Thin appeal, no substance. It's a trap.
This is the 50th Anniversary Edition. It isn't at all out of place for them to lean into the history of the game.
Why would this dampen anyone's interest? The covers of 5e 2014 feature characters from old. Were the newbs put off by King Snurre or Acererak on their PHB and MM? Of course not. Most probably didn't even know who these characters were, and don't care. For most, those figures were simply D&D fantasy characters, and that's more than fine.
"its* future"
Pandering to Gen X?? I’ll allow it.
Boomers? so 70 year olds are playing?
Some people have been playing since the first Pamphlet came out in '74 so I don't doubt it
A shockingly large amount, yes. But to be fair, this is really in the sweet spot for Gen X.
Sure. People who started with D&D in 1974 were in their teens, 20s and 30s, so they'd be in their 60s-80s today, and still enjoying the hobby.
Yeah, I got my dad to play a bit 2 years ago before he finally stopped. He was 71 to 72. So yep. Totally possible.
I say because in my case my folks looked at me like I was worshiping bad stuff don't want to get your channel hit. in the 80 they burned all my 1st ed and 2nd ed books. so yeah Gen X yeah we are the targets
Gen-X, definitely. Boomers were the “it’s the DEVIL’s game!” generation of Satanic Panic era. So few of em around who were players.
I hold absolutely no nostalgia for these characters and I find very underwhelming that both the PHB and DMG covers for the 50th anniversary edition of the game features them, when they cuold have featured real dnd characters like elminster, drizzt, and the like.
It's just cool art. Your hot take is unnecessarily harsh.
It's also not a hot take. We like the art, we just questioned if going so hard into 80's nostalgia with the art, lore, and background of core 2024 could make it harder for players with no reference point to those times to get into the game.
@@TheCharacterSheet Definitely a hot take. Your tone and language said, "This is dumb." It's clear what your opinion is.
"Bets it all" is hyperbole.
So strange; the rules have shifted significantly from how D&D used to be played. Not talking about mechanic changes, those have been mostly good. But other alterations, like how WotC has changed the lore, races, and themes from TSRs version of the game. I think this 80s nostalgia is a desperate attempt to get the largest spending demographic to still buy their crappy new addition.
Personally I've switched to Shadow Dark and BECMI. I've played since 1982 and feel these capture the actual D&D experience and not the DND version. I'm curious to see how many can make their Wisdom Save against this pathetic marketing scam.
Except it will be 90% female, black, and lesbian
Holy shit you butchered the acererak pronunciation
Who cares about Acerek? It’s just a skull resting in a musty old, unfun tomb
Just redo AD&D ..reskinning sucky 5e is still reskinned sucky 5e
As much as I hate all the regurgitated crap appearing in different DnD editions like Straud and Vecna reimagined ad nauseam, this gritty reimagining of a very silly cartoon is kind of cool. Uni all grown up would be cool but idk how they handle the actual DM. We did have a DM have the Dungeon Master appear in one of our games, to many eye rolls,but we found out he was a prankster and somewhat malicious deity named something like Danse Mortika. It was after the quest and discovering his nature he awarded us with one of the items from the cartoon. All I know is that, because I got it, the club crit on and 18 up. We didn’t fight Venger mostly because we just got the weapons at the end of the game and we kind of agreed it was too campy to carry on.
No, it won't help. Most older gamers play OSR, older versions of AD&D. As well as other games. Lots of Indie Games. We have walked away, and no, this ISN'T going to make anyone come running back. FFS MAKE SOMETHING ORIGINAL FOR ONCE INSTEAD OF REHASHING OLDER CONTENT...