I were a signalman at Edgeley no.2 from Feb 1980, and I recall 6J41 passing me, towards the end of my early turn..I can`t recall if I heard about this just before I finished, but it was a shock to learn that the driver and secondman were sadly killed shortly afterwards I had seen them pass the box..and as we had a Goods line at Edgeley with permissive working, and was only partly track circuited between E1 and E2 boxes, it makes you think a little deeper..it could happen closer to home..I lost an uncle at Crewe whom I beleive was sadly hit by a train, while he was working as a ganger..that was about 1969..
I caught this almost as soon as it was put on. Then half an hour later it was taken down. I know why, lol! I spotted the mistake right away, of course. SG42 would most certainly NOT have shown a green aspect and 'C' indication, as it was a colour light signal. A semaphore would have done so, however. I'm not being arrogant or disrespectful. Quite the opposite, in fact. You'll see why. FWIW, I was also a drivers assistant at GB back then, and ironically would go on to serve as a driver at Crewe for over 30 years. Thus I have extensive knowledge of the area and this accident. I'm very grateful for the respect you have shown to the deceased. They were great blokes to work with. You see, my brother was the survivor of this one. All the best.
Hi, just found your channel and find it excellent. The subject matter is well chosen and you have kept the contents short and to the point only including relevant matters, so channels try to pad their videos out including all sorts of immaterial facts. Thank you I have started to view your content in reverse order and have subscribed.
Very interesting, to note 47190 has been released by model manufacturers Lima and Bachmann in its later two tone grey livery, they must have been aware of its history so maybe thats why they picked it.
I was a Guard at Guide Bridge at the time and remember this accident well. I knew the 3 men involved and had worked with the driver a few days previous. It came as a great shock to everyone at Guide Bridge and will be remembered by all of us who are left. Also your commenter @laszlofyre845 I knew through the Guide Bridge reunions. I also spent the last 22 years of my railway career as a driver at Manchester Piccadilly. Thank you for the video.
Credit where due. I took issue with the critical inaccuracies regarding the aspect displayed to the second train in the sequence of events described in the first version of this story. It is therefore pleasing to see you've responded to the critique and remedied the video so in this key respect it is no longer as misleading as it first could have been seen to be. ✅ FWIW the 'two lights' are commonly known as a Position Light signal or two WHITE lights which denote the driver is authorised to pass into the next signal section at a speed consistent with being able to stop short of an obstruction. The driver through their route knowledge will understand the likely status of the line ahead.
Most odd. My original comment on this has disappeared. Why? I explained EXACTLY what happened, and some further experince of taking 47 190 over that same section many years later. I was the surviving crew member of this mess.
@@DayOfDisaster Not sure. I think it was , it was about early July, if memory serves. That may well account for it. Our kid has commented recently , (Laszlo Fire ) , that is still there, but not sure when he posted. Good vid, not a lot of folks knew of this. It was a potentially good day (beers after , back at shed planned ) gone to hell in the blink of an eye. Very surreal at the time.
The 47s were good diesels, but geez their cabs were not crash worthy! I only just looked at the photos of an accident at Bridgend in 1965, the 37 involved crushed that 47s cab as well.
FFS, Please ditch the background 'music' track! It makes it much harder for those of us with less than perfect hearing to separate the 'music' from the narration.
The Engineering Train 6J41 must have been travelling too fast in the section under caution looking at the damage there. Surely the Signal on approach to the stationary Tanker Train would have been at danger?
Permissive working at Salop Goods Jct train gets the cats eyes to go behind another not like that up to Gresty Lane now it's TCB one at a time. Salop Goods on the countdown to closure along with Basford Hall Jct and SS North.
@@smedleyfarnsworth263 Everything he said is absolutely correct. And I don't know what in Heaven you think wrong line orders have to do with this? He's saying that permissive working was in force at the time between Salop Goods Junction and Gresty Lane No.1 for freight trains. This is was and always will be common on freight lines and permits more than one train to be in a block section on the same line at the same time. It is used to allow slow freight trains without passengers on board to follow one another closely at low speed. Permissive working also covers for example platform lines (where, incidentally, freight trains are not permitted to work permissively) where passenger trains can share platforms, join, divide, etc. Not generally considered 'permissive working', but similarly involving allowing trains to proceed onto occupied or potentially occupied pieces of track, we have things like run-round moves (a locomotive detaching from the front of the train and running around it to couple up onto the back of the train to take it back in the opposite direction), movements onto sidings which are already occupied, etc. In colour light areas permissive movements and movements to sidings and depots and things are usually signalled by position light signals which, when clear, display two small white lights at 45 degrees (colloquially called 'cat's eyes'). This authorises the driver to proceed at caution towards the next train, signal, or buffer stop, being prepared to stop short of any obstruction. It is a clear indication the train has been signalled towards a line which is or may be occupied. In the case of the signal involved there was a three aspect main signal which would show red (danger, stop) when the section was occupied, yellow (caution, proceed) when the section was clear to the next signal at red and green (clear, proceed) when the section was clear to the next signal at yellow or green. Below that were the 'cat's eyes'. If a freight train was to be allowed into the section while it was occupied by another train, the main signal would remain at red and when the next train was within 100 yards of the signal the 'cat's eyes' would illuminate along with a letter 'C'.
@@smedleyfarnsworth263 He then goes on to tell you that it is not like that now. Track Circuit Block (TCB) regulations are in force. Now actually you can have permissive working on track circuit block lines, but in any case that is no longer done and you can only have one train in a section on the same line at the same time. He is further giving you the sad and dreadful news that Salop Goods, Basford Hall Junction and Sorting Sidings North Signal Boxes are scheduled for closure in a few months.
I were a signalman at Edgeley no.2 from Feb 1980, and I recall 6J41 passing me, towards the end of my early turn..I can`t recall if I heard about this just before I finished, but it was a shock to learn that the driver and secondman were sadly killed shortly afterwards I had seen them pass the box..and as we had a Goods line at Edgeley with permissive working, and was only partly track circuited between E1 and E2 boxes, it makes you think a little deeper..it could happen closer to home..I lost an uncle at Crewe whom I beleive was sadly hit by a train, while he was working as a ganger..that was about 1969..
I caught this almost as soon as it was put on. Then half an hour later it was taken down. I know why, lol! I spotted the mistake right away, of course. SG42 would most certainly NOT have shown a green aspect and 'C' indication, as it was a colour light signal. A semaphore would have done so, however. I'm not being arrogant or disrespectful. Quite the opposite, in fact. You'll see why. FWIW, I was also a drivers assistant at GB back then, and ironically would go on to serve as a driver at Crewe for over 30 years. Thus I have extensive knowledge of the area and this accident.
I'm very grateful for the respect you have shown to the deceased. They were great blokes to work with.
You see, my brother was the survivor of this one.
All the best.
The video made reference to two lights, I think they meant cats eyes although I hadn’t realised the chord was permissive.
Hi, just found your channel and find it excellent. The subject matter is well chosen and you have kept the contents short and to the point only including relevant matters, so channels try to pad their videos out including all sorts of immaterial facts.
Thank you I have started to view your content in reverse order and have subscribed.
Like the others, a short summary, but still giving all the key facts. I look forward to find more. Many thanks.
Very interesting, to note 47190 has been released by model manufacturers Lima and Bachmann in its later two tone grey livery, they must have been aware of its history so maybe thats why they picked it.
I was a Guard at Guide Bridge at the time and remember this accident well. I knew the 3 men involved and had worked with the driver a few days previous. It came as a great shock to everyone at Guide Bridge and will be remembered by all of us who are left. Also your commenter @laszlofyre845 I knew through the Guide Bridge reunions. I also spent the last 22 years of my railway career as a driver at Manchester Piccadilly. Thank you for the video.
Credit where due. I took issue with the critical inaccuracies regarding the aspect displayed to the second train in the sequence of events described in the first version of this story. It is therefore pleasing to see you've responded to the critique and remedied the video so in this key respect it is no longer as misleading as it first could have been seen to be. ✅
FWIW the 'two lights' are commonly known as a Position Light signal or two WHITE lights which denote the driver is authorised to pass into the next signal section at a speed consistent with being able to stop short of an obstruction. The driver through their route knowledge will understand the likely status of the line ahead.
I don't remember this, but I vividly remember the Colwich junction disaster in 1986, living only a couple of miles away.
Not heard of this collision until now.
Most odd. My original comment on this has disappeared. Why? I explained EXACTLY what happened, and some further experince of taking 47 190 over that same section many years later. I was the surviving crew member of this mess.
Was that posted on the original video?
@@DayOfDisaster Not sure. I think it was , it was about early July, if memory serves. That may well account for it. Our kid has commented recently , (Laszlo Fire ) , that is still there, but not sure when he posted. Good vid, not a lot of folks knew of this. It was a potentially good day (beers after , back at shed planned ) gone to hell in the blink of an eye. Very surreal at the time.
Farnley Junction 1977 is a good one, a 47 hit by another loco in similar circumstances.
The 47s were good diesels, but geez their cabs were not crash worthy! I only just looked at the photos of an accident at Bridgend in 1965, the 37 involved crushed that 47s cab as well.
My school councillor/therapist’s uncle was George Schofield. Tragic way for her to have lost him. RIP George 🌹.
In railway terms ‘Crewe Junction’ isn’t at Crewe, it’s near Shrewsbury. Interesting vid though, thanks for sharing.
FFS, Please ditch the background 'music' track! It makes it much harder for those of us with less than perfect hearing to separate the 'music' from the narration.
The Engineering Train 6J41 must have been travelling too fast in the section under caution looking at the damage there. Surely the Signal on approach to the stationary Tanker Train would have been at danger?
It would or should have been running under some form of wrong line order.
Permissive working at Salop Goods Jct train gets the cats eyes to go behind another not like that up to Gresty Lane now it's TCB one at a time. Salop Goods on the countdown to closure along with Basford Hall Jct and SS North.
@@johnroberts8512 John, well that sounds very impressive, but what the heck are you talking about? Your missive makes no sense.
@@smedleyfarnsworth263 Everything he said is absolutely correct. And I don't know what in Heaven you think wrong line orders have to do with this? He's saying that permissive working was in force at the time between Salop Goods Junction and Gresty Lane No.1 for freight trains. This is was and always will be common on freight lines and permits more than one train to be in a block section on the same line at the same time. It is used to allow slow freight trains without passengers on board to follow one another closely at low speed. Permissive working also covers for example platform lines (where, incidentally, freight trains are not permitted to work permissively) where passenger trains can share platforms, join, divide, etc. Not generally considered 'permissive working', but similarly involving allowing trains to proceed onto occupied or potentially occupied pieces of track, we have things like run-round moves (a locomotive detaching from the front of the train and running around it to couple up onto the back of the train to take it back in the opposite direction), movements onto sidings which are already occupied, etc. In colour light areas permissive movements and movements to sidings and depots and things are usually signalled by position light signals which, when clear, display two small white lights at 45 degrees (colloquially called 'cat's eyes'). This authorises the driver to proceed at caution towards the next train, signal, or buffer stop, being prepared to stop short of any obstruction. It is a clear indication the train has been signalled towards a line which is or may be occupied. In the case of the signal involved there was a three aspect main signal which would show red (danger, stop) when the section was occupied, yellow (caution, proceed) when the section was clear to the next signal at red and green (clear, proceed) when the section was clear to the next signal at yellow or green. Below that were the 'cat's eyes'. If a freight train was to be allowed into the section while it was occupied by another train, the main signal would remain at red and when the next train was within 100 yards of the signal the 'cat's eyes' would illuminate along with a letter 'C'.
@@smedleyfarnsworth263 He then goes on to tell you that it is not like that now. Track Circuit Block (TCB) regulations are in force. Now actually you can have permissive working on track circuit block lines, but in any case that is no longer done and you can only have one train in a section on the same line at the same time. He is further giving you the sad and dreadful news that Salop Goods, Basford Hall Junction and Sorting Sidings North Signal Boxes are scheduled for closure in a few months.
The report came out in May 1980, but the crash happened in November!
May 1983
Could you do these videos without the creepy background music. Would be much clearer to understand and much more professional.
I thought it was weird 2 write out a report of a crash that hadn't happened!
47 299