Venerian Demonic Afterlife - The Scariest Worldview Ever?
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
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C. M. Kosemen explores a harrowing view of the universe, as outlined in C. S. Lewis's "Voyage to Venus".
Read "Voyage to Venus" for free on
gutenberg.ca/e...
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Read "Voyage to Venus" for free on gutenberg.ca/ebooks/lewiscs-perelandra/lewiscs-perelandra-00-h.html
I wish you success
The BASED Koseman not afraid of cursing in the first few minutes of the video to not get demonetized by youtube.
I hope I'm never forced into monetising this channel. You guys' Patreon & bmAc donos have been a lifeline for these few last years...
Scariest universe you say
*Insert Warhammer 40k here*
I'm a Warhammer 40k fan!
Also I'd like to see the various Xenos species and Chaos Daemons reimagined in the style of CM Kosemen
I love Warhammer too, might tackle some of its lore someday. Tho there are far better channels out there doing it.
@@cmkosemen That description of the universe here sounds quite like Warp dimension. But Warp also can burst out back to realspace...
Show mecthe deepest hell, daddy kosemen 😩
Even as a big Warhammer fan, I have to say that Xeelee Sequence is far, far scarier.
There’s actually a bit of speculative evolution in this book, too. Ransom describes seeing mute, unintelligent, mermaid-like creatures at one point in the book, and it’s heavily implied that these are the “Australopithecus” forms of the Queen and King of Venus.
Or maybe "solving" the problem of animal diversity vs. creation by proposing "almost-human-like" beings devoid of the divine spark. There's also a weird sorcerer-like thing on a cart drawn by big bugs in that underground realm - almost has a pagan god feel to it.
I actually find this chaotic meaningless inner world under the skin to be quite comforting in a sense - this constant state of self-evaporation into a sort of dreamlike collective subconscious realm as you describe it feels more like 'home' to me than our tangible world ever has.
I find it comforting too - like an eternal sleep with deep dreams...
@@cmkosemen Exactly !
YES
personally i find it deeply unsettling and mildly horrifying
I find it kind of unsettling and more than a little horrifying personally
Wow, I never thought I'd hear someone talk about Perelandra. That book was a trip.
I loved every second... Thanks for tuning in!
Greg Sadler has a nice breakdown of the trilogy on youtube.
C.S. Lewis wrote his space trilogy under the influence of David Lindsay's "Voyage to Arcturus", wich, I think, is more insane and no less philosophical. If Lewis is a christian, Lindsay is a gnostical pessimist.
Wow I did NOT know that. Voyage to Arcturus was simply incredible...
I tried to read a synopsis of the plot of "Voyage to Arcturus" and I was like "Yep, those sure are words, alright."
I love that the scariest universe of them all is literally just Christianity. Chefs kiss.
Because your so right, the idea of eternal torment for all people who don’t accept one specific religions views, its kinda the most horrifying cosmology out there already.
@@xavier84623 Eternal depends on which denomination.
Try Islam
@emptyblue Islam exists because Christianity is too horrifying for a reasonable man to accept.
Christ is King!
@@emptyblue6530 *looks at the state of muslim majority countries
Nah I'm good
Idk why but I think the chaos of the book is oddly wholesome? Like... let me put it like this: It's like you're seeing life in its purest form, it's chaotic, it's crazy, it's flourishing, and it's weirdly natural and unnatural at the same time. I find it wholesome because it's the stark and contrasting opposite of something like a post apocalyptic dystopia where everything is dying and nothing new comes up and it's just suffering and death.
I get where you are coming from... Like really deep & dreamy sleep...
I am so glad you talk about your passions and such with concepts like this. Your influences for your work really appreciated. And I hope everyone can support you and I hope things go well with your travelling. You need the well deserved recognition and support so I hope you are doing well.
Thank you so much my dear friend! :)
I never expected the author of All Tomorrows to talk about one of my favorite C. S. Lewis books! I definitely recommend reading the first and third books of the trilogy- That Hideous Strength also gets really dark in some bits too. The Screwtape Letters is also an interesting bit of satire too, regarding the demonic view of human existence and the divine, so I recommend that as well.!
I'm looking for all those other books now. That Hideous Strength feels like an Orwellian post WWII managerial state critique.
Just got finished listening, wow! C.S. Lewis's presentation was on the level of an H.P. Lovecraft concept if not better.
HPL had the adjectives but CSL has the "spirit"...
wouldnt be a cm kosemen video without sudden sickly mouth noises into to the mic
I actually read the entire trilogy! I really enjoyed the first two books. I love how CS Lewis describes these alien worlds. It's all very surreal. Perelandra is essentially a retelling of the Genesis story. In Out of the Silent Planet, we are first introduced to the Eldils. I absolutely loved the description of them as creatures of energy that move faster than our frame of reference. It's honestly a really cool and original concept.
Chad Koseman swearing and being goofy despite being a very influental and famous figure. Based
Thank you!
The idea of evolution being related to an afterlife somehow is hurting my brain.
Thank you for covering a C.S. Lewis book!
My pleasure !
Wait hold up
CM Koseman has a youtube channel?
For over 12 years now... Enjoy the ride!
I'm waiting for the Perelandra anime.
Please, oh please, Mr. Gresham, let the Japanese take this one.
Now THAT would be an interesting watch, I never considered such a thing....
oh cool! my worldbuilding project is taking the 'entire alternative cosmology' route
That's cool!
This sounds less like a higher level of speculative evolution and more like speculative mythology.
While both are parts worldbuilding I don't really see how you could compare them like being on the same starcase of progression.
This is not to say I don't like these types of stories, I have some drafts for my own types of mythologies.
They are both exercises in lateral thinking - something which a LOT of people are simply incapable of doing.
I would call the cosmology of the trilogy as both a biological and mythological one, though it is definitely more mythology than biology.
You’re such a delightful guy Kosemen, an invaluable personality in this day and age. Shits just insane here in the USA all the time and this made my day considerably less stressful. ❤
I'm so glad it made your day better...
Haha insane! I am from Russia, you Americans are amateurs at insane
I’ve recently had my own “realization” (that is to say, hypothesization, except with a bit more of an intuitive inclination confirming its efficacy than a normal hypothesis would imply) that a description such as this indeed elucidates a real state of existence beyond what we know. That that thing is what many, or in fact, even those within the biblical “mold” refer to as “The Void”. What’s more, that this very overlayed existence is what the Bible describes as said Void surrounding the “celestial spheres” and the like. In addition, I’ve intuited that it may very well be the case that what we, or at least many know as “God” is itself an entity which is derived from this same Void. However, if we are to preserve the notion that it is a at least “well meaning” if not outright just and orderly centered being, we might surmise that it was one of a few, if not, dare I say, the only entity originating from this state (superstate?) that was in some ways (as we might know as) “decent”. That is to say, not deliberately malevolent and uniformly antagonistic to self actualized life. Being the absolute exception to the rule within the supremely chaotic realm which he sprang from, he “constructed” this ordered world we know. Perhaps both as a refuge from the infinite viciousness of his fellow “void born” entities, as well as a functional “nest” with which to fashion and foster the development of other entities of his otherwise utterly unique “bent” (that being what we’d refer to as “decency”). So as not to be alone amongst the infinite array of omnidirectional antagonistic impulse. Therefore having “children” who take after him, and through which he can finally have a semblance of what we call a “friendship/kinship” with…something! If this is the case, perhaps it is likely this Void does not take kindly to this “God’s” efforts to buck the infinite trend of chaotic antagonism. And thus is constantly attempting to wear down and dissolve his “creation” (this universe). These efforts, in the material sphere are what we know as “entropy”. Whereas in the spiritual or moral sphere they are the “Satanic urge”, as we might identify it. In the end, this might also explained why this same “God” has, on occasion, acted rather vicious and uncaring, himself. That may be because he is under constant barrage from his brethren in the Void, and is this on a perpetual “war footing”, so to speak. And so, when something within his specially unique and delicate creation diverts from his carefully engineered order, it risks allowing one of those “barrages” from the outside Void to compromise the system as a whole, which in turn risks total system collapse, and a “rushing in” of infinite chaos to reclaim all components for the Void once again. That, and of course, the fact that he himself is also an entity who originates from this self same Void of true chaos, and, thus, no matter how “decent” he may be, he still takes after his “family”, to some extent, so to speak, accounts for all the otherwise “quirky” behavior he is ascribed to have in various scriptural accounts. Again…this is all if he is even real. Because, if not…then, well, the Void still is! At least as far as my reckoning goes. Only…any hope for an escape from its chaos is rendered moot. As the single example of a possible state of transcendent decency has been removed from the larger picture. Meaning…only the Void lies ahead for anything and everything. It was merely a “fluke” that we ever experienced anything resembling ordered existence and a state of being amenable to life at all.😳
I didn't expect that was Perelandra the scariest worldview ... Really great
Thank you !
Its worth mentioning that this is not the actual cosmology of the trilogy, but rather, a manipulation of the spirit that possessed the doctor. What the spirit is describing is really meant to be what it has prepared for those who do not escape its spiritual web, but its presenting it as if it were an inevitability in order to frighten the main character. The actual cosmology of the series is itself quite interesting, but much much MUCH more beneficent.
Excellent video as always. There's a fascinating view on this topic of life and death I read about in the Majjhima Nikaya. In the Mahatanhasankhaya Sutta a fellow named Sati the fisherman's son, misunderstands the concept of rebirth to mean the transmigration of an eternal consciousness into different bodies upon death. The Buddha proceeds to correct him that there is no such eternal consciousness and elaborates on the concept of rebirth as a chain of conditional causation chain. Fascinating read.
Thanks for this amazing reference :)
Yeah, that's what I assumed it to be as well. Can you elaborate on the correction?.
I was surprised when this video turned out to be about Perelandra! Some of the details, as you related, are different than I recalled, (I read it in middle school, I think?) -- the main example being my recollection was that the a spirit from Earth followed the evil doctor, but only possessed him when he invited them in by accident, (it seemed to be suggested that it kills him when the main character tries to give him alcohol to wake him -- biting down on the glass -- so that it and it alone is now in control of his body... from thenceforth, the movements of the doctor are all mechanical, like he's being puppeteered by something that understands how his body works, but does not quite have that masterful touch of someone who has lived in it.) For some reason, I thought the King of Venus was the spirit of Venus, but I think I _definitely_ recalled wrongly.
I love the name of the first and third books, but Perelandra is my favorite. Out of the Silent Planet had some interesting ideas, but was a lot more like reading Narnia. That Hideous Strength entertained me a lot when I was young, but I have grown to like Perelandra the most. The overall religious cosmology of the trilogy is interesting, and I think it's interesting how the spirit of Earth essentially relates the afterlife as _it itself is experiencing it,_ (having rebelled from the spiritual hierarchy, and become a spirit of death, who both lives in perpetual torment, and seeks to draw others into it.) I like the idea of cosmologies that blend the spiritual and the biological, (like the original Final Fantasy 7,) and Perelandra's cosmology plays right into that.
C.S. Lewis' books are very often quite trippy. The Great Divorce uses some fantastical metaphors to argue for his religious convictions. The Screwtape Letters (I never actually finished them) are an interesting look into how C.S. Lewis internally battled his doubts in his religion. Till We Have Faces has an emotional rawness to it.
Hi mr koseman! This genre has always been one of my favorite!
Glad you like it !
I love your Patreon bro, and think everyone should join it !!!
Thank you brother !
Show me the deepest hell that's not being in a waiting room in a major city in America, sitting next to a Boomer who was never taught to chew with their mouth closed... and they brought the biggest bag of crisps. Their name gets called first because they just want to know if they have an appointment (they didn't).
Hope it went smooth... What sort of crisps was the boomer having?
@@cmkosemen Whichever ones are the smelliest and make the most mess of course.
First of nobody in America eats crisps so take your fake take on one of our older generations back "over the pond" to the limeystoned cliffs of dover you twat.
0:16 is that an Xbox turning on?
😂
I thought weston was only dabbling in occult stuff when he arrived and actively called out for the forces of the universe to come into him and that is when he was possessed. Idr... But that book trilogy was great. That Hideous Strength was gnarly.
That's what I recall, and I recall it was suggested that Weston also dies soon after, from biting down on and swallowing the glass --- the spirit essentially doing its best to oust _his_ soul, now that it had entered into his body.
Bro I'm so fucking happy you got a podcast. I've been following you since the early days of Snaiad and I started following you just right after you stopped updating it and I almost lost my mind! But I'm happy to hear your rants brother!
Thank you so much Charlie ! :)
There are plenty of places to be lost or found. Reality is not based on our comfort zones. Post-death is no different.
o kosemen, thank you for all the wonderful things you tell us about! it is a joy to listen to this video as i cook my dinner after work. i hope your move goes smoothly :)
Glad you enjoy it!
I am a fan but I didn't know you had made a youtube channel of your own, I'm definitely subbing this one.
Thank you!
Maybe the devil being the devil twisted the afterlife to sound far worst to scare the doctor?
Yep, that's what he did in the story.
Specifically, the evil spirit is drawing on the experience of both it and the souls of mortals who have been captured by it and the other spirits of Earth. The actual cosmology of the trilogy is _far_ more beneficent.
It's pretty cool to see some non-narnia cs Lewis content
Show me the deepest hell, Father Kösemen.
Thank you for the interaction!
0:40 wouldn’t be me since I never progressed past those doodles kids draw of a tree growing candy or whatever. To me it represents the most pure and genuine SF, uncorrupted by interdisciplinary knowledge and ‘coherency’ 🤢🤮
Show me the deepest hell, daddy Koseman
Sinking into Gaia Below sounds perfectly fine to me.
I think this stuff is great, look how science fiction has actually laid the foundation for science. I've always speculated about life forms that are born and die in space like Tinman from STNG Moia from Farscape. I've read ALOT of CS Lewis m was brilliant. I was raised Christian and still kinda am. Ain't read his science fiction but mainly his theology-philosoohy.
Anything which involves any eternal existence of any kind is scary af
This idea is taken to the absolute in Scott-Bakker's books - one of the races of his world at the peak of their scientific development, discovers the existence of the soul, and creates an artifact that allows everyone to see the fate of their soul in eternity. But by this point they had gone so far along the path of "transhumanism" and self-improvement that nothing of the creator’s intention remained in them - so they are all doomed to torment unimaginable from the moment of being born. So they have absolutely nothing to lose...and every imaginable technology from science fiction
Show me the deepest hell, daddy Kosemen!
Is there a work of speculative evolution which explores how life on Earth would evolve if humans (Homo genus) never evolved? It is such a simple concept, but I have never seen any exploration of it
Not that I know of...
SHOW ME THE DEEPEST HELL (this is cool af)
Took this guy 18 minutes to get to the point
Man, this is the stuff that drove me into the arms of Carl Capek and Olaf Stapledon.
Both are great authors !
I hope you have and amazing and creative day :) very fun listen
Thank you! You too!
algorithmic titration 😌 Koseman congrats on the grasshopper good sir
Thank you so much! It was a really great honor!
awsome video my man love from chile
Thank you!
Cmkosemen,
I personally think the scariest fictional universe either the Cthulhu Mythos or Warhammer 40k. I’m also willing to bet that things weren’t quite as bad as the demon character was making them out to be in the Space Trilogy universe, only because of C.S Lewis’ devout Christian faith, so there probably was some way out of that horrible existence after death
In the book, this worldview turns out to be a complete dark fantasy fabricated by the Devil ... :)
Another channel about alternative universes? Count me in
Welcome on board!
thanks for the upload. Brave and honest of Lewis to allow Westerfield to suggest such a bleak theory of the universe, without directly and immediately contradicting it. He's confident the reader will have enough faith to disavow and embrace their Christianity more. But what if they don't?
My personal belief is that there is no god or afterlife, but I wish there was. I would like to believe in God but just don't think there is one. I would like to be wrong, even if I found myself going to hell, a part of me would be happy that hell exists, because it means God exists too.
Give him what he wants
It does remind me of the divine comedy (and its inspirations). Beneath the surface of earth, there’s only worse hells until you meet the Devil himself at the center of creation.
There’s even the “heaven is away thing, with the heavens being away from earth, in the celestial spheres.
That bit also reminded me of this one particular engraving of the Devil frozen in the centre of Hell...
Long live the great Koseman
This is also based on Last and First Men by Olaf Stapledon or the Venus colonising part of the book. As both Venuses have only one continent a hot house world made up mostly of water. So it could be argued that Weston and Divine are some kind of amalgamation of H. G. Wells, J. B. S. Haldane and Olaf Stapledon. I drew some comparisons to All Tomorrows because it could be argued that the Qu are like a divine punishment to the Star people for destroying extra terrestrial ecosystems. I don't know it felt like it was close to a conclusion as I could get. I'm surprised you didn't touch on the fact C. S. Lewis hated that part of the book and wrote the Space trilogy as a response to it and Haldanes lecture series. Do you have any thoughts on this? I also liked Last and First Men and All Tomorrows.
great video :)
1:07 average slamming brutal death metal song title be like
It sounds quite like WH40k Warp...
Lore of Venerian Demonic Afterlife - The Scariest Worldview Ever? Momentum 100
Yes, this video really took off fast! :)
Shew me the deepest hel, Kosemenic Pater
Thanks for the titration!
Raaaaaansooome (chaotic choking)
You'll find that asking for and begging for support for 5 minutes at the beginning of the post, doesn't fare well, I have found UA-camrs who ask very politely, and very quickly 'if you did like the video please send a like and subscribe, it really helps" makes me want to do ate way more than someone pretending to be sick and begging? Not trying to be a dick, just trying to help, I'm broke too so here my contribution
Actually this is a good idea - thanks for the contribution!
For the algorithm!
23:10 i am very interested in hearing your theory on the afterlife
19:00 this is just Christianity, except he is telling you most people live in hell/limbo. Your spirit was always considered eternal and this mortal life but a brief flash by Christian’s. “This world is not my home I’m just a passin through”. “Store up your treasures in heaven“ etc. the main character still has hope that there is a good section of the afterlife with god or whatever, but they are still just describing what modern woowoo christians believe, demons and spirits and afterlife are all true just like in the Bible. So I guess I’m sorta disagreeing with you that this is new or interesting world building, more of just a genesis fanfic where Lewis writes what he imagined genisis was like for an alien world, because of course if god is everywhere and if aliens are real then they must each have to have their own genisis and Jesus and stuff. lol. So it’s not new cosmology at all, it’s just a direct copy of the Bibles world building but on Venus. A pure genisis fanfic.
A very good point
There are very few foundations for world views. Everything else is just decorative
@@Trollamollex ? Wat?
Show me the deepest hell, daddy Kosemen 😃
Here you go! - Thanks for watching!
Just a comment for the algorithm
Kaaan. Kaaaaan. Kaaaaan
:)
So is the skin of the membrane that we sink in represent life itself while God stays put in this scenario? What happens when it bursts? Do we all scatter as genetic material would when something like an amoeba dies?
I think it is not as bad as it's pictured, because all that material, like when stars explode, can be founding materials for new cosmic bodies or, in this case, new membranes of life (or perhaps something else).
Nice video! I'll have to read C.M. Lewis' work at some point.
The absence of God in this hypothesis is Satan's trick in the story...
Comment cuz algorithm
So the afterlife is like a place where god can't reach and things become incoherent. That's it? I'm not really impressed or terrified in particular of such worldbuilding.
What about having to witness an empty black void forever, or having to be human centipeded forever?
@@thesurvivorssanctuary6561 any eternal existence would be bad and unbearable
@@KateeAngelno it won't. Give me eternity to experience what humanity will do for all it's eternity.
Personal mystical experiences? Have you had an NDE, daddy Kosemen?
The closest was this ua-cam.com/video/ESl3WSH3fgY/v-deo.html
❤❤❤
Hello C.M.Kösemen!!!!
Hiii!
Show me the deepest hell kosemen daddy... (I'm broke😢)
Thank you so much!
I love you, get a pop filter for your mic.
Good idea - thanks!
Come on, first 3 minutes are just putting to sleep.
Show me the deepest hell
Thank you for watching all that way
395th like!👍
Awesome video!🤘
Love your work!😁
Keep up the awesome work!🤘😎🤘
Subscribed!😎👍
Show me the deepest hell!🔥🔥😈🔥🔥
based god, you can only drop gold
Thank you ! :)
Koseman kose meee~ 😫
What are you going on about?
Rrrrraaaansoooommmm
What's your thoughts on the Warhammer 40k universe?
Tyranids are not only the best race... they are the ONLY race!
@@cmkosemen Don't forget about my green mushroom boys, Da Orks!!
I wonder how you view the chronicles of narnia series
We read it in elementary school, they were fun.
@cmkosemen in my Taco Bell/kfc job I used to write C.s. Lewis, Tolkien and GK Chesterton on the back of receipts for families to encourage them to look them up and enjoy their stories.
life is good
Enjoy !
Cosemen creature, what trenches spawned you?
Mossy and overgrown trenches (See twitter drama on x.com/cmkosemen/status/1830959534736552197 )
@@cmkosemen Drama? I love little overgrown places, your arguments are completely understandable agaisnt tge world that slowly begins to forget that everything comes from nature, and hopefully to nature will come back one day. Cheers!
Christian apologist? U mean normal christian? Wtf is that choice of words dude?
You seem remarkably ill-informed about this... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_apologetics
ehh
siz türk müsünüz? şivenizi benzettim.
Ne mutlu Türk'üm diyene!
everyone loves his accent
Space Trilogy THE GOAT!!!
I dreamed about you
Go
What? @@idontknowwhattoputhere371
Cosmic daddy 😘
Danke !
bro I ain't calling you that 😭
Haha ok!
God is black.
DAS RITE!!!
Ebionite.