Modern Classics Summarized: Stranger In A Strange Land
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- Опубліковано 19 бер 2020
- This book is:
10% Mike
20% stars
15% concentrated power of mars
5% water
50% cult
and 100% topics that are very adult
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“Heterosexual love, the one thing unique to the human race” love that this implies all aliens are gay
Or that aliens have asexual reproductive systems. Or maybe aren't stuck in one sex their whole lives. Or that they don't breed at all during their lives but when they die they pump out a bunch of spores that combine with others to make the next generation. Or have lots and lots of sexes, and maybe get different results depending on which ones are involved in creating any given offspring. I remember a good short story about an entire ecosystem where everything was one species with a kajillion sexes, all with extreme polymorphism between them, and which things bred with what determined whether you got offspring that looked like bug-analogs, plant-analogs, beasties that carried other sessile sexes around, etc, etc. Terrestrial sex, gender, and reproductive options may seem complicated, but they're the tip of the iceberg in terms of potential. Dying to see what our machine-intelligence inheritors come up with - beyond "copy-paste" that is. :)
I ain't becoming an astronaut, cuz space is gay
listen aliens are all non-binary pansexuals, valid
J J thirteen that’s your loss
Katie Martin you. you get it.
"This is never explained, I think it's just something Heinlein is into"
literally the entire book
If you can't get the female members of your sex cult to enact the ultimate twin fantasy, then what's the point of even being a cult leader/archangel?
@@CasualNotice its the "my oc is better than all, so am I !" thing
@@CasualNotice "TWINS, BASIL! TWINS!!!"
I mean...can ya blame him?
@@alanivar2752 Yes.
An alien who doesn't laugh laughing for the first time at the sight of the cycle of abuse is legitimately creepy
The Three Stooges enters the chat. ;)
Heinlein is legitimately creepy. Still in my top five favorite science-fiction writers.
Not just an alien, but also the actual incarnation of an archangel. Not alarming at all.
I feel like it makes sense in context. Also that one part was one of the only compelling observations. Mike could not laugh because he had been told that funny things were a “goodness”. His realization was that laughing is the goodness, which we do in response to wrongness. I haven’t thought of too many examples, but a lot of jokes off the top of my head boil down to some sort of wrongness. Often not overt moral wrongness, but stuff that just isn’t correct. The main problem I had with it is that this moment was when he claimed to fully grok being human and that he grokked love. Seems kinda nontrivial to me to go from monkeys hitting each other and laughing yo understanding love.
@donfunk6613 He somehow manages to write really good fiction in the exact opposite genre he was going for.
This feels like a fanfic that switched writers halfway through.
My Immortal?
Part 1: Written on a good trip.
Part 2: Written on meth.
accurate
It got kinda silly after all the women kissed him and swooned. Am starting chapter 18
IMO it's closer to seeing the train headlights slowly glow brighter against the school bus
First half: "wow, this could be a movie"
Second half: "wow, this could be a *porn* movie"
nome sobrenome or a smutty fanfic
I think it should be...but only if done right. Speilberg won't touch it, high doubts about J.J. Abrams touching it, but absolutely NO ONE from the objectivist --films-- trainwrecks should come close to it.
Me: "so.... This could be an Anime?"
This sucks: the homophobic cultist guide to being a prick
Ok, but for real; take out the homophobia, sexism, and racism; this would be a cult classic anime
This book is basically "They had us in the first half, not gonna lie" meme in novel form.
Chamily Vasquez-Mendez the first half was SO GOOD.
Chamily Vasquez-Mendez second half ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Yeah who would want a cool sci-fi novel with good world building and an interesting outlook on human nature when we can have a sex cult on acid?
Chamily Vasquez-Mendez 😂
Asdf Asdf and the third half...
tl;dr: Heinlein wrote a book about a powerful alien coming to Earth and learning about humanity as an outsider, but unfortunately he only had one hand on the typewriter while he did it.
OH EW 😆
This comment is the best description of this book that I've ever read. This video is a close second
Yep
Honestly, he writes most of his books like that
Oh God I get it
That's both hilarious and deeply troubling
It’s nice to see that in the book humans have evolved enough that the argument “Mike can’t own Mars because there’s already other people living there” is actually accepted, because historically, a place already being inhabited unfortunately hasn’t been enough to stop people from claiming that they own it anyway
The fact that martians can disappear things is probably a pretty strong deterrent.
This is literally the only good message ever said in this entire book
it's called conquering....it's what people do.
@@sentryogmixmaster ok and?
@@sentryogmixmaster Just because people do it doesn’t make it not bad. Murder is also a thing that people do, and it is obviously still bad.
Time for some deep thoughts with Heinlein:
"Being gay... is gay... and that is not cool"
This concludes deep thoughts with Heinlein.
lol, says the asexual. xD
Being a women is cool only if your hot and naked.
129das that is definitely a title of a Panic at the Disco song
Oof I was too late
Really tired of experts on Heinlein who have, at most, read one book once.
"So this is my religion."
"Not interested."
"It involves sex."
*"I like your words, funny magic man."*
No gay sex
Pass
Nut
"You son of a bitch, I'm in."
Aliester? is that you?
I’m officially an adult now and can watch this video without hurting Red’s conscience. Finally.
Nice
@astoroidea6502
Huh. Now that I think about it, witnessing this video before the age of 🧓 would be pretty _strange,_ fr.
Happy birthday
Congrats! Was it everything you dreamed of?
Was it worth it my newly eldered friend?
I had a girlfriend whose favorite book was "Stranger in a Strange Land". She philosophically based a lot of her lifestyle around it. I didn't understand why our relationship was so one sided until I read it some years after we broke up.
Oh boy
I am scared to ask but what did she do?
@@leonhardeuler7647Start a cult, probably.
ok the key advice one should take from this .. if you have a girlfriend who has a favorite book etc., first thing read the book .. just saying
@@leonhardeuler7647do you really wish to know?
“That’s not an old one, that’s a corpse nobody’s eaten yet.”
Sentences I never expected to hear for 400
What is "incorrect HP Lovecraft quotes"?
Waffogram Correct! You win Jeapordy
Now I want to make jeopardy just with osp quotes
I’m tired B. That would actually be hilarious
Hey a LA BB murder case reference!
“Cannibalism good, homosexuality bad”
-Heinlein; a very “”big brain boy””
Big Brain Time
@@dropdead234 citation? That sounds really interesting.
@@dropdead234 See, if it's a joke that nobody got, it's not actually a joke-it's just a poor attempt at humor.
Are those quotations a typo? Why’re they there
Darthane Still if it is true he made it as a joke I think it means the guy can’t write comedy
If I had the power to make a movie adaptation of any book, I'd make an extremely gay, extremely modern version of Stranger in a Strange Land with the purpose of making Heinlein spin in his grave so fast, he could power the Texas power grid.
"making Heinlein spin in his grave so fast, he could power the Texas power grid."
This made me picture some straight-up Bethesda shit and made me laugh. Thank you for that.
@@catbatrat1760 Bethesda valve source creation engine
No no no this book deserves no attention, let die like a bad fire man
I’m fuckin sorry but I lost it at “making Heinlein spin in his grave so fast he could power the Texas power grid”
lol lord knows they could use the backup supply, and what could be more quintessentially Texan than an independent power grid fuelled by incandescent homophobia
“THATS the story? That was just the authors barely concealed fetish”
truth
Oh yeah… he was a known nudist and big proponent of poly relationships….. dude was… super weird… and sexist. Important to remember how much of what he wrote had not been written like that before anywhere near the main stream… his ideas seem blasé to us now…. But that’s cause we built modern sci fi on him, Asimov, and Clarke. All three of whom were batshit insane academics…. The other two just knew how to not write so blatantly about how insanely horny they where at all times……
barely concealed? really?
Barely feels like an overstatement
What do you mean barely?!
I wonder how many other literary classics are just a story loosely wrapped around Author Insert Fetish Porn
I mean, The Divine Comedy was basically a glorified self-insert fanfic
I don't think you'd be surprised...
Oedipus Rex
@YourThoughtCriminal I mean 1984 is actually... good.
Holy shiz JELLO??!!
I feel like Heinlein was writing a story about a super powered alien coming to earth and learning its customs but then he got distracted and started writing about his sexual fantasies.
That's about the reading experience, yeah
That is objectively true. I was such a devoted worshipper at the altar of Heinlein when I read this that I actually failed to recognize my own disappointment w/ the last half of the novel. Decades later, I can finally see what a bizarre, bigoted perv he was.
The story started out strong with a commentary about corrupt officials, likable characters and cool world building. But instead of paying attention to these interesting concepts, Heinlein makes turned the story into Charles Manson saves the world.
It is rumored he started taking LSD when writing this book
"Here I had my first draft of my deep, philosophical debate with a stranger from the stars, and here I had my personal kink story filled with massive amounts of naked women who all want me, but I accidentally sent them both to the publisher IN THE SAME ENVELOPE!"
(Jk it was prolly intentional, but I like to live in a world where it isn't because it's funny, instead of DEAR GOODNESS WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT)
"And Ben, who IS saying No to a lot of this is being treated like he'll learn or come around" as an aro/ace I can relate
Reasons it took me 18 years to realize I was asexual
Reason #1: That quote
didnt ask
@@thefrenchtaunter7916 then simply ignore my comment and move on with your life. It's not that hard
@@just_unnamed no
@@thefrenchtaunter7916 then it sounds like a you problem ngl.
She left out the part where the main female lead LITERALLY tells Mike not to kill r***sts because "9 out of 10 times when a woman gets r***d, it's at least partially her fault."
That was the part where I put the book down.
Good lord!😬
😳😳😳
You took to long to put the book down
At the moment this started you should have known this is f*cked up
She mentioned that in thier podcast, she wanted to put it in, but didn’t, it’s explained why in the podcast and I’m not saying it now, because it deserves to have larger audience and you all should check it out. And also because I forgot. But mostly the first thing.
Thanks for reminding me of this. I'd forgotten Bob's views of a LOT of topics were positively prehistoric. (That's code for he could be a real @hole sometimes).
“T-posing psychic nudist colony with rage-eyed Heinlein censor bars” is the most cursed thing I’ve seen all month.
Cursed? Or blessed? Afterall, how can any T-pose be more dominant than this one considering it was great enough to show dominance against lovecraftian Martians?
@Justin Bergeron you mean "blursed"?
I might be wrong, but theyre also t posing on the fludd from halo so now its even more cursed
This entire book is probably the most cursed classic I've experienced. No wonder such insane imagery came from it.
Bob the Monitor
That is a sentence I thought I would never read
"There used to be a fifth planet between Earth and Jupiter that the Martians decided shouldn't exist anymore and that's why there's an asteroid belt instead."
Okay but why couldn't the book have been about that
That's a story in and of itself
I know right, that’s like a one sentence horror story.
Marvin's first test of the "Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator".
mystery
Try Spirit Science's The Sumerian Epic for better info on that whole debacle.
Irl the asteroid belt is a failed planet, its just iirc jupiter moved too close messing up the orbits before moving back to its current position. But i agree a story centered on the destruction of that planet and subsequent asteroid belt formation would be more interesting.
The way Red describes it, this book would actually work remarkably well as a dark comedy.
It is a dark comedy. It is a satire on the prude and religious and superstitious and intolerant US society of the 1950s.
That's pretty much what they did with Starship Troopers.
I think the novel is a dark comedy.
It is, most Heinlein is. Job a comedy of Justice is exactly that.
It is supposed to be funny. The thing is, the laughs are supposed to come from your instinctive understanding that Robert Heinlein is right about everything and everyone opposed to his ideas is silly.
Red: "Which I'm sure real astrolagers would never do"
The time-travelling goat-fish: ...
*There is no Time-Traveling Goat-Fish in Ba Sing Se*
Thank you for making this joke. The cult of the time traveling goatfish appreciates your contribution
@@luigiboi4244 Why does this make me laugh so much? That's some talent you have.
@@positivelink6961 That cult is the... G.O.A.T.! ;)
Nobody:
Heinlein: “Homosexuality is gay”
Yes Heinlein, and the water is indeed wet.
Well most of it is
And people die when they are killed
@Mrimchaelson Water is moist. Fire is hot.
Ofoers You're mom is not hot.
"And then in the third act, he starts a sex cult."
Zeus could never-
At least he didn’t encourage his followers to do it veraciously. That is Aphrodites job
*Surprised Pikachu Face*
Ngl I'd join that cult
Well, to be fair, Zeus would be first in line to join. Will be drown in Demi Gods and Hera's personal vendettas on the little bastards for ages.
@@FlfyDfy I already have
for the first half I was like "huh, this is neat, maybe they have it in the school library", then I got to the 2nd half
They had it at my High school library. That's where I read it.
@@alexwork4829 I did check mine but it wasn't there
this was in my *elementary school* library.
...i'm very glad i got bored and put it back like, three pages in.
"This is never explained, I think it's just something Heinlein is into"
A lot of it really was. A little known fact about Heinlein at the time was that his personal life was really really out there, even by 60’s standards, and he was getting old by then. Also his fortune was made by writing juvenile fiction which was mostly advertised by its insertion into school libraries which meant he had to suck up to librarian associations which were made up of the most prudish people on the planet. For most of his life he was in the closet in *so* many ways, almost oddly not including being gay.
So Starship Troopers was Heinlein saying goodbye to the Juveniles, and Stranger was basically Heinlein coming out. As pretty much everything weird *except* gay.
I finally read the book, and I couldn't agree more. There's parts that are a bit cringey, but tbh it's not a bad scifi story. It's just a victim of the time period it was written.
Considering he went on to write shit like Time Enough For Love, in which a dude goes back in time and knowingly and enthusiastically has sex with his own mother...yeah, that tracks.
@@AdlaiArnold That's messed up. It makes Fry's "nasty in the past-y" moment seem perfectly innocent.
I saw no problem when you consider the Howards had a whole other definition of insest. The key was how many dangerous combinations the genes could have. Since they both had clean genetic strains they could not pass on bad mutations. They would consider two unrelated people who would not mix well to be incestuous. Interesting outlook. The whole concept behind the taboo is to prevent inbreeding. They eliminated the possibility totally beforehand.
@@Glittersword Yeah, tell it to the Hapsburgs. What's considerated a 'bad' trait is debatable.
Jill: Dont be attractive to men. Be more masculine.
Ancient Greece: Am I a joke to you?
hey man it is more masculine because you are dominating another man, what is more masculine then that.
Because, to quote Red, what's manlier than *TWO MEN*
I'm guessing Heinlein adhered to the belief that being a gay man must mean you're feminine and that by that logic gay men would only be attracted to feminine men.
or, you know: Actual gays: are we a joke to you?
@@trolldrool Or Heinlein assumed all men were attracted to feminine beauty, because that's just how men's minds work.
Heinlein tried to be progressive, at least relative to his time, but he had some serious unexamined essentialism clogging up his brain drain.
Basically: “my fetishes and homophobia are totally normal and I understand women more than women do if you disagree you’re a poser prep- I mean, brainwashed”
Do not compare the genius of Ebony Dark’ness Dementia Raven Way to this proto-boomer nonsense.
Maybe that's a libertarian thing? Ayn Rand does this exact same thing. Jay Naylor does almost the same thing, except without the homophobia because he is probably bisexual.
@@dylanchouinard6141 Yeah, weirdly enough I find My Immortal WAY more readable than this.
I mean, put it this way: My Immortal at least makes me laugh. A LOT.
THIS book made me struggle to get all the way through it and wonder what the beep was WRONG with sci-fi fans of the '60s...
Robin Chesterfield At least content wise, even ignoring the grammar and spelling issues, I much prefer My Immortal to this. My Immortal was probably written by a child, someone with little experience in writing and who wanted to be what her subculture defines as cool, as many do around her age. Heinlein, in contrast, was 54 when he wrote Stranger in a Strange Land.
@@robinchesterfield42 Drugs mostly. If I recall correctly. But it was the 60s, so...
I started reading the book and Gill’s introduction is not exaggerated in the video it literally says “GILLIAN BOARDMAN was a competent nurse and her hobby was men.” 😂
I hate how this could've been such an interesting story about Michael learning about Earth and humanity learning about Mars and Mike learning to live with his superpowers but Heinlein had to make it about weird sex stuff
Honestly that's why a pet project of mine is creating the martians and their culture whit a story of Michael growing up with them and having to adapt because he doesn't have the physical characteristics of a Martian.
We were robbed by the story's own dang author
Every time theres a "Deep Thoughts with Heinlein" you slowly begin to understand and feel the pain of the bystanders listening to the philosopher with agonizing looks on their faces in that greek painting
that's Socrates killing himself my man. Feel like that context only adds to "Deep Thoughts with Heinlein" portions.
@Corvus Morve I prefer the idea that it's actually Heinlein and everyone is in despair about his awful-I mean GREAT ideas on everything.
That's a painting of Sokrates you uncultured swine. Don't you go insulting the OG philosopher
I’m sry bystanders this guy is f**k
@@microchip9982 this sentence is a grammatical disgust
So according to this book, the meaning of life, the world, the universe and everything isn't 42. It's 69
You genius bastard lmfao
*Slow clapping*
No towels then?
@@ericpraline Oh you always need a towel
@@Vorloks Why thank you internet stranger
I like to think all the people Mike disappeared end up in another story somewhere. Like, imagine a story that has nothing to do with Stranger or Heinlein and these random people keep poofing out of nowhere, rambling about some naked Martian cannibal. 😂
I'm sure he didn't originate the concept, but _The Cat Who Walked Through Walls_ was Heinlein going full Multiverse, so this checks out.
Sounds like something Philip José Farmer would write, as a series, uh, sort of like the "Riverworld" series ... 😉
@@GSBarlevI thought it was _Number of the Beast_ that had the weird mutliverse stuff.
"The Cat Who Walks Through Walls" has a similar kind of structure: the first half of it is a fairly entertaining sequel to "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress", then it goes *sproing* and is suddenly a metafictional sequel to "The Number of the Beast", with crossover appearances from Jubal Harshaw and Lazarus Long, and an incredibly creepy scene about how hot 14-year-old girls are.
Can we appreciate how talented red is?!? Like she can sing, draw, I assume she’s the one who plays guitar at the end, and she’s also funny as hell
She is I think in one of the April fools or a livestream she pulled out the guitar and played
@hannahmotley1863
-*Skilled-
Yep, she's amazing. 😊☮️
"Cannibalism
is actually fine
so long as that cannibalism is _never gay_ "
This concludes Deep Thoughts with Heinlein
Is cannibalism gay? I mean you're basically eating a huMAN
@@raspberrycrowns9494 Look up Armin Miewes.
The thing about Heinlein being homophobic is that I don't think he actually was or at least wasn't in the traditional sense.
After becoming familiar with many of Heinleins books and short stories I seriously don't think that he views being gay as evil or a sin like most homophobic idiots and (I'm not joking) instead views it as being counterproductive to the survival of the human race since unlike most heterosexual love if left to it's own devices it won't most likely result in a human being born.
We need to keep in mind that this was written during the 60's and that overpopulation wasn't nearly as big of an issue as it is today.
@@melvinmerkelhopper5752 Oh dang
@@Moonstar79 You looked it up didn't you?
Michael: “I learned some very important lessons from all of this”
Everyone: “I’m guessing they’re all horrible distortions on the lessons you should have learned”
Michael: “Death isn’t real and I’m basically god”
Everyone: “Yeah that is so much worse”
@@ecrusar5216 I second this sentiment
To Human Being: Glad to see another fan of the Door Monster. That was from "Self-Fulfilling Idiocy 3", wasn't it?
Spectacular reference.
This comment cannot be liked enough
Can't like enough!
You know, this story actually has some cool ideas in it. It’s just everything else that screws it up. I will compliment Red for the attempt to make it hysterical rather than uncomfortable, but dang. Heinlein was one weird guy.
She over exagerates massively and skips the good parts, she focuses on 3 lines for a quarter of the video and does not cover anything the book was actually trying to say
@@willmcgonigle3107what was the book actually trying to say then lol
@@DonutCare564a lot of shit… mostly that it’s author is insanely weird and somehow only slightly problematic for his time. What is skipped is how fascinating and fresh what he wrote was. This video covered how crazy he was, but now how prolific of a sci fi writer he was. This wasn’t awarded a Hugo award and became on of the greatest selling sci fi novels of all time because it was what she said it was, it did that in spite of it, or at least adjacent to it….. the book actually started as a modern and adult version of The Jungle Book, by Kipling.
It gets crazier when you realize that this book did exceedingly well among those of the counter culture movement (beatniks and hippies)…. Honestly, this pre internet/post nuke era was batshit insane all around.
Crud, now y’all have gotten me to go read it. Good on you for inspiring me to broaden my mind.
@@willmcgonigle3107 she isn't exaggerating that much, and she hits the weirder points dead on. When was the last time YOU read the book?
"This is never explained, I think it's just something Heinlein is into."
That could be the cover blurb on pretty much every one of his novels. And to think, this one was written BEFORE he got into to his "weird old horndog" phase!
BEFORE?
what the hell did he write afterwards?
@@violetbean8928 If I say "time-travelling nudist polycule (with bonus self-insert fanfic)" or "man decides not to kill himself yet because he's horny for his mother," it sounds like I'm making it up on the spot, but those novels were published in 1980 and 1973, respectively...
I think midway through this book is the exact moment Late Heinlein appears, fully formed. Now, after this he still wrote some things that were more like Early Heinlein (he isn't Late Heinlein full-time until 1970), but he clearly had Late Heinlein on call.
“Are you one of those females that they keep talking about?”
“Can’t you teeeeeeellllll?”
*he actually can’t*
Dragon Ball?
NinjaBluefyre ?
@@chocomuffin7433 In early DragonBall Goku couldn't tell the difference between boys and girls.
Choco Chipzzz this reads like ASDFmovie
R0-83-RT oh
“Deep Thoughts with Heinlein”- Gay stuff is illegal, but love freely
Yeah, in this book. You should read Time Enough for Love it's all about polyamoury; have sex with anyone who agrees without limits.
But no guy on guy butt stuff. That is Icky.
I really don't grok that author.
I would like this comment, but it’s at 69
Don't forget The Moon is a Harsh Mistress!
Fun fact:
Some people who liked this book went out and actually founded the Church of All Worlds. It is a real organization now that you can join.
(I have no idea how true to the novel it is. I'm guessing they won't actually give you phenominal psionic powers.)
No but they will try to screw it into you and claim the failure is you not committed to sharing yourself enough. Lots of divorces based upon the jealousy between couples who joined it with one embracing it more than the other.
the whole "I am God/thou art God"-thing becomes actually hilarious when you know that the name 'Michael' is a question, and the question is "who is like God?"
But the question is rhetorical, bc no one is like God. ten bucks says Heinlein did that on purpose and if not, I'm going to throw things bc thats _even funnier_
Also Michael's other name being Valentine probably should have been a hint as to where this story was going-
According to the intro I read most of the important character names were chosen like that.
@@ReeveProductions I read that too. I was going to make that comment.
This feels like a hybrid between 60's ideals and a really weird anime.
Better say Hentai Anime is better then that. Hentai just does whatever.
That's Heinlein for ya.
That's a bit backwards. _Stranger_ was published in 1961, so it's more like it *informed* 60's ideals and really weird anime. For all the reactionary stuff Red calls out, it was surprisingly popular among the hippies.
I think that creepily, but astutely, sums it up!
Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave.
first act michael: soft boy, precious son. Protect Him.
second act michael: [CENSORED]
Third act Michael: murder spree
Fourth act michael: Angel Michael
This comment reminds me of the Oversimplified joke with Rasputin [CENSORED][CENSORED][CENSORED]
5th act Michael: DeStRuCtIoNN
@@InsaneGreatsword
Yes, but this is actually good
This book is actually a speculative dystopian vision of the future In which jared leto's cult grows in power
I’m unsure if this was purposeful but at 10:10, Michael is depicted with a traditional version of a Christian angelic halo, where in older art pieces halos weren’t any sort of rings but rather circles of holy bright light behind the head. If it was purposeful, insanely cool foreshadowing to Michael somehow being an archangel
You skipped over the part where Jill says that its the victims fault when they are raped, so yeah consent really isn't a thing the book cares about.
.....
....
.......
*WHAT??*
@@yasminafarih3681 When Jill becomes a stripper she tells Mike not to disappear any of the men no matter what they do because "9 times out of 10 when a woman gets raped it's partly her own fault," so the man hasn't done anything wrong.
@@falconJB
//vomit noises
Is it time for another *DEEP THOUGHTS WITH HEINLEIN* ?
Imagine if this book was released during the second half of this decade
"And then in the third act he starts a sex cult"
Me, an innocent bab: "A-a what?!?”
you heard it.
Me too brb bro me too
Reeeee
*Cover the child’s ears!*
Should have run away and continued to be innocent.
14:18 "They're just trying to show people the truth".
If she meant the NAKED truth, then yeah they clearly succeded.
"He realises comedy is built on pain."
Me who laughs at a deep fried picture of a lettuce if a reverberating voice calls it a cabbage instead: Am I pain?
The artists depiction of Michael as a soft femboy martian really furthering the realization of how anime this plot is.
I'ma just take Michael real quick
⁰00⁰0
Nah anime would be all for gay and bisexuality. couldn't be
@@animequeen9711 i mean not really?? there isn’t that much anime with LGBT characters-
I was maybe, actually, rooting for our fantastical little jelly bean 🥺 well up until the sex cult dlc.
This sounds like a D & D session gone wrong
Edit: I made this comment in 2019-2020 and now I've finally played d&d, y'all were right. That was just normal d&d, my character(an overpowered arsonist 8 year old) overthrew a kingdom just bc someone in the group told them not to do it.
TheTired Fangirl I did accidentally start a cult in D&D once where our goal was to save the world from aliens, the only big difference is sex wasn’t involved
...I dunno what would have happened if they gave us a few more sessions tho
More like a session gone right
@@crimson8867 Found the bard.
Depends how many bards are in the party.
In D&D, we started a “cult” in which we killed demons and were all like TIME FOR A FUCKING CRUSADE and terrorized Lucifer for fun. And we disintegrated Mars and Jupiter.
The fact that they weren't able to create a horoscope because he was born on Mars is surprinsingly accurate.
Since you need the date and time of birth as well as the location, since they are based on earth it would be nearly impossible to do an actual horoscope on someone born on a different planet.
The fact that it's not framed as a horror story in a way makes it even more horrifying. Pity that wasn't on purpose.
Man, I bet asexuality would really grind Heinlein's gears.
Honestly i think most reasonable things would grind his gears
his gears are whetstones slapping together at random, all they do is grind
Especially homoromantic asexuals.
Probably not. He was a pretty chill dude.
@@wisemankugelmemicus1701 well your first problem is that those aren't what those words mean
“And he may be the archangel Michael. Spoiler alert: He’s right.”
WE ARE REACHING LEVELS OF HERESY THAT SHOULDNT EVEN BE POSSIBLE!
THE CHURCH OF ALL WORLDS HAS TAKEN JERUSALEM! DEUS VULT!
@@HunterStiles651
DEUS VULT
BURN THEN IN HOLY FIRE BROTHA!
GATHER THE ORDER OF JERUSALEM, THE BROTHERS OF THE IMPERIUM OF MAN AND THE WRIGGLERS OF JOECRAP!!!!
DEUS VULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DEUS VULT!
FOR THE GOD EMPEROR OF MAN KIND
8:36 can we all just, sit an appreciate how adorable this is? They don’t understand fully but still do it because it’s important to their lil space buddy 😭
this book really should've stuck to the theming of the beginning instead of going all sex cult
I read this when it first came out; his later books became increasingly strange. Near the end of his career, he had an early (forgotten procedure name) carotid artery reaming out, restoring blood flow to the brain. This may have explained some of the weirdness.
Deadass admitting that an actual arch-angel wouldn’t have seen anything wrong with being gay if humans didn’t tell him it was wrong. I love that for how self-owning it is.
@@rblack1986 Okay... Why is it gross? And don't just cite the bible, give me an actual, logical reason it's a bad thing other than just "The bible says so and I'm not gay". It might be hard to give proper reasons because there _aren't any_
It's just two people loving each other. Just because they can't make a baby (Keep in mind they might not even want a baby, or sex at all) doesn't mean it's gross, it's just love
@@rblack1986 Tell me you know nothing about HIV infection without telling me you know nothing about HIV infection.
@@rblack1986 Also, you act like humans are the only species where same-sex relationships exist. Spoilers: WE AREN'T.
@@rblack1986 where in the bible does it say that? cause as far as I remember the one and only line in the bible which mentions being gay, was a mistranslation of "pedophilia" from the original text.
The irony of English Christian priests 'mistranslating' the Bible 'on accident' considering their reputation is hopefully not lost on you.
If you don't get it you're too far gone.
If you do get it you know you've mucked up and might need to retract some of the stuff you said.
@@rblack1986 I'm picking up "13/50" readings from you.
Like, I don't think you believe that necessarily, and I don't care either. Just... damn, your logic is flawed.
He really done ruined a perfectly fine panromantic asexual Martian just because he listened to Freud, which is never a good idea.
Panromantic asexual martian is my favorite combination of words now
@@Genesukt64 What does 'panromantic' mean?
He's not asexual. Mike lay with many people in the book!
@@ZephLodwick Yeah, that’s the point I was trying to make. Before he got his little ‘upgrade’ he didn’t
@@ZephLodwick panromantic means you're attracted to people regardless of their gender. Pansexual is the same thing but horny
The absolutely best part of this video is "Deep Thoughts with Heinlein". The music, the visuals, the tone change! *(chef's kiss)* PERFECT!!!
The fact that a Chick-fil-a ad ran right before the ‘unless it’s gay’ bit is terrifyingly hilarious
SAME
The sad part is that this story would've been WAY better if Mike was presented as the villain. Seriously, 80% of the book's problems would've been fixed if Mike was the villain and somebody else became the hero in act three.
I mean, you could take it as a bad end, or whatever.
I will say, I read and loved "Starship Troopers", so I heard about this book and tried it out. It gave me MAJOR Heebie Jeebies, and I didn't even get to the 2nd Half. :D
I thought Jill in the beginning looking out for Michael was pretty cute though. She reminded me of the sexy gal who's a big sis type.
Personally, I don't read him as being villainous, so much as extremely misguided. He wasn't trying to be evil.
Mike never comes off as a villain at any point though? He’s just extremely confused.
more act *PORN*
Or even if it was presented as something pure being corrupted by society and others beliefs.
This book is an aces worst nightmare... *never mind it’s everyone’s nightmare*
Minihonda123 I'm pretty sure ace people would just get bored in the last half of the book
I'm an ace, watching the second half of this was basically just:
"Are you kidding me?"
"This can't be a real book"
"Oh boy"
"Yes, no need for a plot, let's just include more sex"
Minihonda123 I’m reading this rn and I’ve finally gotten to... the latter half. I actually kinda enjoyed all the religious and social commentary of the first half but now.... oh god
God the fact that red is ace and she had to read this KILLS me every time
@@jackelle8250 Poor Red
If anyone else has seen Dominic Noble’s video on The Midwitch Cuckoos/Village of the Damned - he notes that there’s a type of middle aged white man author whose writing style is less about the action, and more about what middle aged white men have to SAY about the action.
(And has a main character who is almost definitely an author self insert)
I read Stranger a long, long time ago. Through-out much of it, I kept thinking "this is a bunch of hippie crap." However there is one scene it in that has always stuck with me, it's the scene where they talk about truth, and they come across a barn, and ask what color the barn is. And someone says "red" but it's pointed out that you can't see the other side of the barn, so the other side might not be red. A statement of truth often comes with an acknowledgement of what is unknown.
“So in case you were questioning the morality of his actions, it’s fine because he was an Angel the whole time. WEEEE.”
So was Satan and look how he turned out.
Yes but Mike goes back up to heaven to resume his angelic duties once he is done 'fixing' Earth.
Satan is Best Angel
You do realize Heinlein has never actually associated a portrayal of heaven with objective good?
@@Scotch20 I'd argue that Stranger In A Strange Land is an example of him doing exactly that.
@@alanivar2752 mmmm ah you see tho.. you know what I'm gonna not say anything.
It's not a good thing when you can say to yourself: "well, in context, of all the horrible opinions and general uneasiness that come from this book, cannibalism was probably one of the less troubling"
Yeah, I mean at least it was consensual cannibalism
Claire Thurston flashbacks to Madagascar movie and the lemur king offering his butt for a bite.
Honestly the consensual consumption of the dead for religious reasons isn’t really unusual or unethical. It’s the only thing I don’t mind about the story
Remember that the Catholic Church claims that all its followers are actually cannibals - that the communion wafer becomes the literal body of Christ (rather than being a symbolic representation of cannibalism like various protestant churches believe).
I like how it started out actually pretty cool for a 60s sci fi and then became progressively (pun unintended but now that I think about it) more Reki Kawahara for the last two thirds
I would like to formally thank Red for giving us an easy and well explained video to point to whenever a Twitter user asks "why is the new AI thing called Grok."
And giving us yet another reason to call Elon a fucking weirdo.
Him liking this book explains a LOT
Grok isn’t some obscure Elon thing. It’s been a reference in nerd circles for decades. And this video is extremely inaccurate and biased.
Love how Heinlein is like "Everything Mike does is Correct and Good because he's secretly the incarnation of the Archangel Michael. Except the pansexuality. We had to teach him not to do that. Encourage murder for inconvenience, discourage pansexuality."
It's _almost_ like the story is _supposed_ to be ridiculous.
@@themoleman6806 While the ideas Heinlein puts forth in is books are mostly so bad as to easily be mistaken for satire, if you read what he wrote outside his fiction you will fine that he seemed to believe them.
@@falconJB You're trying to say that the man that wrote _Job: a Comedy of Justice_ writing in all that stuff about heaven, complete with halos and angels, is being 100% serious and not taking the piss. Sure thing bud.
And I have seen a lot of the work he wrote outside of fiction. About 90% of it is typical libertarian stuff so I don't know what you've been reading.
Wow I can't believe that a book from the
*1960s*
Is not onboard with anything gay.
Eadric Robertson that’s what I meant, it was the 60s, if you have anything gay in your book or anything with gay undertones it’s either best case not gonna sell well or worst case get burnt. However Heinlein still snuck in some gay undertones in the book anyways disguised as hate
"Agnes was like that because Freud was right about everything."
Psychologist in me: "Wait that's illegal"
Part 2:
"Cannibalism is actually fine"
Me: "wait that's ACTUALLY illegal"
@@BladerBoi24 I'm a Prion and I approve this message.
@@BladerBoi24 *Technically* speaking, Cannibalism isn't illegal! It's all the things that require cannibalism to happen that's illegal (like the murder, and desecrating the dead bits).
@@109Rage Wonder if you could do cannibalism if you didn't kill them and they gave explicit permission in their will.
@@109Rage Not sure what country you live in, but in almost every country it IS illegal to desecrate or tamper with a dead body in any way
'Deap thoughts with Heinlein' had me in stitches 😂
I was gonna complain about how sarcastic this synopsis was, then I saw the channel name. Nailed it
This is literally just if Freud wrote a book.
... *Drinks a long sip of alcohol.*
you need more cocaine too read this book if that is the case
CHUG CHUG CHUG CHUG
Pretty sure Freud wrote books.
@@Marcus1526 If Freud wrote a book about himself.
Also, Freud wasn't anti-gay, and it seems like thats a big part of this book.
“Can’t own Mars because it’s inhabited and he doesn’t own it and doesn’t even want to”
That one Native American guy who was just a random person and was forced to sign a contract giving his tribal lands over to the English even though he couldn’t read the contract and he was in no position to have the right to sign it: 🧐
Martian can make you disappear at will if you piss them off, and anyone claiming ownership of their planet would defenetly piss them off.
@@justanotheronlineobserver3387 Martians apparently don't have a concept of "ownership". You'd have to teach them the concept first, and then afterwards tell them _"All your base are belong to us"_
To be fair, this is like the Native Americans having nukes.
Oh, I get it. It's sci-fi, space colonialism.
In the novel, Mike owning Mars is a political fiction based on the precedent that the lunar colonists own the Moon as the first people to live there (which goes back to a theory almost as old as agriculture - that the people who live on and work the land have a right of ownership to it) - though the idea that the colonists have the right to the entire Moon just from settling part of it seems like an over-extension of that ancient principle.
The theory that Mike owns Mars as the first person to live there relies on a narrow definition of "people" as "humans" - but it gets replaced through some face-saving political theatre with the theory that Mike is the representative of the sovereign nation of Mars, populated and governed by the native Martian peoples.
A combination of pointing out the realities and making a successful Fast Talk roll...
Fun fact: grok is a common word in programmer culture. It’s usually used in reference to comprehending a complicated code base or how an otherwise large program works especially with the intent to modify it.
I think my favorite part is "That's not an old one that's just a corpse no one has eaten yet."😆😂🤣
HILARIOUS!!!
Everyone is missing the point of the cannibalism. It is a punch on the concept of Communion in mainstream churches that branch from Catholicism. Communion is just symbolic cannibalism. This is my body, this is my blood. Wafer and wine symbolize ingesting the body of Christ. So not too far of a step to boiling a finger to make soup. Heinlein was rattling the cage of the Pope.
“Deep thoughts with Heinlein- Cannibalism is actually fine.”
I mean, while I absolutely don't agree with the presentation. Why would it be ethically wrong to eat a dead person who completely consented to be eaten after their death and has not been killed for the purpose of cannibalism?
@@aquila4460 Mainly because humans tend to become very ill when repeatedly consuming humans. While a little here and there may be physically OK, my social brainwashing rather puts me off the idea.
@Aquila In the words of the Great Master Red (No, not that one, the author of this video) "Hell if I know!"
Leaving Hannibal's true motivations aside, what I get from one of these is, that porn back then was made by man and man with fake breast.
Anything's fine with consent!
"He realizes comedy is built on pain. Humans laugh, because they can't do anything else." Wow, that caught me off guard
I mean he’s not wrong
Comedy = Tragedy + Time
Black Humor = (Tragedy + Time) - Time
@@Karak-_- I thought Black Comedy was Kevin Hart?
@@WizTroll fuck that was good.
@@crescenteon7619 Yes, he is. Comedy has nothing to do with pain.
I love how the idea that "the people who already live somewhere have more claim to it than we as outsiders do" was completely ignored by everyone involved until it became a convenient way to protect Mike lmao
I was already a bit skeptical about whether the writer of Starship Troopers is qualified to tell me about empathy and compassion, but I got to the scene where he writes "9 times out of 10, if a woman gets raped, it's partly her fault" and now the book is just annoying me. Gonna push through to the end, because as the book says, you can't truly hate something unless you fully understand it. Great video though!
yeah. I'm trying to withhold my distaste til I actually read it. It's not easy, tho.
Isn't the movie basically a parody
@@michelmanno8244 Haven't seen it but yes from what I know it's just ripping the piss out of the book
@@michelmanno8244 The movie essentially satirizes the fascism that the book played 100% straight and is all the better for it.
@@JamieCurrant The movie satirizes the fuck out of the book and it’s great.
Heinlein: "There's nothing inherently wrong with cannibalism. We only think it's disgusting because society says so."
Also Heinlein" "Gay people are icky."
The thing about Heinlein and homophobia is I don't think he was that in the traditional sense.
After becoming familiar with Heinleins books and short stories I seriously don't think he views being gay as evil or a sin like most homophobic idiots and (I'm not joking) instead views it as being counterproductive to the survival of the human race, since it unlike heterosexual love if left to it's own devices it won't most likely result in a human being born.
We need to remember that this was written during the 60's when overpopulation wasn't nearly as much of a problem as it is today.
batshineman overpopulation isn’t a problem now either though
@@batshineman174 ah, well, so long as you take the time to rationalize your homophobia, I guess lol.
@@Nazareadain How did I come across as homophobic?
I was only explaining what I thought Robert A. Heinleins views on being gay could've possibly been.
I even called those who are against being gay as homophobic idiots.
@@batshineman174 Heinlein's homophobia my have been rationalize but it was still homophobia. It is even said it the book that that Mike would never trust a gay person because he would sense their inherent wrongness.
Can we appreciate how every third sentence could be an absolutely hilarious cards against humanity card
Red's videos should be quoted and made into a cards against humanity pack. I would 1000 percent buy it
It's so specific yet its so perfect for it.
It's like that right-wing form of antifa - where you can do whatever you like, so long as it's one of the allowed activities.
Yoooo this is hurtfully true
Margarita
Household chores?!? THE MAN HAS NO SKIN!!!
This book makes me feel better about my own writing
Ikr? No matter what one writes, it has to be superior to this mess of a novel.
*Me looking at my half-finished DSMP shipping fanfics* Perhaps I treated you too harshly
@@lunaequinox7333dude, I feel like my writting is a bit forced sometimes, but after thinking about just people can be a bit...unique, I don't feel so bad anymore.
@@therealuncleowen2588 The weird thing is, this book is often regarded as not just OK, but as Heinlein's masterpiece and one of the central classics of science fiction literature. I *like* a lot of Heinlein, for all his many many faults, but I've always found this one difficult to take. I think it just appeared at exactly the right time to become a strange 60s counterculture icon, though Heinlein probably hated most things about the 60s counterculture.
The novel is highly acclaimed and award winning. Take it within its context.
Part 1: Actual sci fi
Part 2: belongs on Wattpad
Heinlein was an uncomfortably bizarre writer.
To convey that immense discomfort, I vote we get M. Night Shyamalan to direct an adaptation of this book that's portrayed entirely as a psychological horror, _without changing anything about the characters_
I would buy that movie
Honestly, I think that would almost be a good movie.
Underrated. Take this algorithm bump.
it would be great but for the love of satan dont
@@somedudewithsomememes2035 "for the love of Satan" is not a phrase I expected to see today, but I'm happier you said it than the other thing
I'm fairly certain I could rewrite the story and major plot points so things don't come out of left field and actually have a point. Here are some ways you could rewrite the plot to actually have it make more sense:
Rewrite Jill's whole character aside from being just "woman" and give her an actual character motivation, for example the reason she chose to save Michael at first could be, say, because she took a liking to him and because when she found out they were going to kill him she couldn't bare the idea of someone being killed for almost no reason, playing into her motherly traits and could maybe hint to Jill being either a mother of someone who died or maybe she had to care for her younger siblings for some reason
Completely rewrite the third act because the whole sex cult angle is completely unnecessary and replace it with the plot point of Michael's psychic connection being severed from the Martians and the third act being the protagonists trying to find a way to stop the Martians from invading Earth
Remove the homophobia and racism in the story (I know this story was written in the 60s but there's no real reason to keep it in the story)
Oh yeah don't make Michael the actual Archangel Michael. Like what was the point in that again?
Don't have Michael's powers be a Deus Ex Machina to multiple plot points and rather have him just have abilities such as Telekinesis and Telepathy.
Agreed, though the homophobia would clash well with Mike and Jill pretty obviously being bi without saying it, and it would also be a character development tool
@@itlivesinthewalls68430 No you're right, that could work if it's handled well
@@supersushi2139 I just like the idea of Jill realising that she likes girls too and apologizing to Mike for pressuring him into acting straight
I just clicked on this video again and it started off where I had left off:
"It's sex cult time baby"
"A very female woman with such hobbies as men and wearing dresses on dates with men"
Guys guys I think I just have a hunch that Heinline was a sexist I'm not sure tho
Edit: wow, 7 months later and I still get notifications for this comment. Truly I have struck a nerve
Speaking as someone who's read a lot of Heinlein, he was clearly trying to be feministy. There were several female characters who were explicitly as competent as any man in the story, women being successful in the military without comment, Hazel Stone, etc.
To be fair, I don't think he was very good at it. The number of women who give up their careers to be housewives is kinda telling.
He was a man of his time. And for a man of his time he did have some pretty competent female characters. Hazel Stone, Friday, Maureen Smith, Hilda Burroughs etc. True he was obsessed with sex and sexuality, but a least his heroins weren't all damsels in distress or trophy ladies. And in his later novels he had male bisexual characters.
To be fair, that makes sense for the time period. Unlike Lovecraft, who was so bigoted that even other bigots told him to tone it down.
More like he tried to be somewhat feminist but got lazy and gave up when it came to backstories....
@@annazinchenko7819 I mean, Ursula LeGuin published The Left Hand of Darkness only 6 years after this book, a sci-fi book that is about the concept of gender in society. So being a man of his time is not really a defense, to write great science fiction you need to be able to lift your gaze from your own time. To be fair, Heinlein could do that for some things, but compared to other contemporaries he was not great at it, especially when it came to gender and sexuality.
“I love all the people a bonded over water with!”
“Ok, but you shouldn’t love guys”
“What’s a guy”
“It’s what you are”
“So I can’t love me?”
“No just not other men”
“What’s men”
“... it’s the gender that you are”
“What’s a gender.”
“... its a... state of existence that defines your body”
“Ah, right.”
“Ok ok. Now, don’t be gay”
“What’s gay?”
“It’s when you love another person of your gender”
“But why is that bad?”
“ITS INHUMANE AND UNPURE!!”
“Ahh, ok.”
“So...”
“I love all the people a bonded over water with!”
I'm starting to think that the author painted his own character into a rhetorical corner.
@@JanusKastin Now I kinda want to see a crossover between Heinlein and Ayn Rand. The ultimate pseudophilosophical libertarian self-insert fantasy.
Big Mans it’s like who’s on first but with gayness...
lol so much mental acrobatics. i mean, just the normal amount for a right wing american, but really quite a lot.
did you know that jesus made a new covenant with his followers that replaced the old one?
so yeah all the people who go back to lovidicus to justify hatred of 'the gays' are actually not following the word of their supposed savior jesus christ.
being self consistent sure is hard.
JanusKastin no he did intentionally.
Every time I think of this video, I cannot help but think "Deep Thoughts From Heinlein," and it makes me very curious if we're ever going to get an episode about Ray "TV Bad" Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451°.
@jacobbohl192
Yo, good point!
When I was in college my GF was a writing major, and was tasked with reading this one. She got the book on tape, and I listened to maybe 15 minutes before I'd had enough. My main takeaway was that I never wanted to hear the word "grok" ever again, as the book had both introduced and worn out the word in the space of just 15 minutes. Like if the Smurfs said "smurf" for every other word not as a verbal quirk, but to attempt to sound insufferably smart. Actually, maybe that's what Brainy did...
Mike: is perfectly ok with gay people
Everyone else: bUt WhY wOuLd yUo dO ThAt
OoHHOH
Seriously... The whole point is that this Martian is not bound by society and knows the truth of this world, yet even he initially didn't care about gay people til the society he's supposedly fighting against tell him he's wrong..!
Okay idea: rewrite the book but make it gay
@@haru5257 this would actually work bc the anti gay part doesn't affect anything in the narrative
@@hp22h78 When I read it I took the whole anti gay stuff was that even the people closest to Mike didn't fully understand that his teachings meant, that they were still holding onto their past way of life. Then I learned about the writer. :(
“Love should be free and without limit, *unless it’s gay of course*-“
The thing about Heinlein and homophobia is I don't think he was that in the traditional sense.
After becoming familiar with Heinleins books and short stories I seriously don't think he views being gay as evil or a sin like most homophobic idiots and (I'm not joking) instead views it as being counterproductive to the survival of the human race, since it unlike heterosexual love if left to it's own devices it won't most likely result in a human being born.
We need to remember that this was written during the 60's when overpopulation wasn't nearly as much of a problem as it is today.
@@batshineman174 TL;DR: Basically Heinlein didn't like the gays because of reasons of homosexuality not producing kids.
@@advictoriamsshitposts8689 I think he's forgetting the hundreds of orphaned children and that gays could just adopt
xxAsh playzxx its more that they wanted more kids back then, not a family.
Eh In "Time Enough for Love" he seems all for gay stuff. That one's hella about pleasure too
For how many times I gave watched OSP vids, and I just realized something.
There are no noses, and I'm not disturbed by this. Red does amazing work.
I feel like this whole video is Red dunking on Heinlein.
And that's pretty cool.
"no women likes, watches, or even understands pornography" me, trying to convince my parents that I'm a good and pure christian girl and definitely NOT a horny lesbian
I don’t know according to this article if women ruled the internet porn wouldn’t exist (which is sad tbh, what’s the use of the internet if there is no porn?) Edit: why do my dumbest comments get the most attention?
@@starling1226 Knowledge? Entertainment? There's a lot of uses for the internet that isn't....18+ content.
@@akuraproductions3550 The Internet is for Porn Meme kinda dyed out.
What makes you think those things are mutually exclusive?
BIBLE NEVER MENTIONS LESBIANS WOO
@@starling1226 I'll put forth the claim that if women ruled the Internet, a lot more porn would be written.
Source: I am a woman and I don't wanna watch porn, but man do I read it.
Other source: There seem to be a lot of women writing porn on the Internet.