at first i was like: aw man, its pretty bad if Dom cant even muster up the energy to be angry about this, its like the disappointment has pushed out every other possible emotion a human might have 3:50 thanks dom, i was worried for a second :)
It used to be annoying when team mates would spam pings to make you back off from situations like this. It was annoying because no shit we're going to back off. We see the danger, we see it's a stretch. Stop stating the obvious. But now we just have pro players, paid stupid amounts of money, who don't have the awareness while in a 5 person voice chat, to not overchase a tank into his own jungle.
Bro I promise you if FlyQuest backed off we would be flaming them for being too passive. In the moment they made the right play. In hindsight they made the wrong play. Let's stop backseating these guys so hard. NRG and TL did good at last years worlds by overchasing, being overly aggressive, and making the game scrappy and volatile. How do you expect to beat eastern teams playing slow and methodical? Even G2 loses teamfights against the worst eastern teams 5k gold up. Playing principled is a terrible gameplan against a better team. Sure PSG isnt that good so you can play methodical versus them, but they still have Junjia and Maple do we really want to playing for 55/45 teamfights against eastern super stars? And against the better teams this play style is what they need anyways so might as well perfect it now than save it for later.
@@Tristan-ne1vzI see your point and somewhat agree on the need for NA or just weaker teams in general to be first to make the plays to get them ahead because the better team will make less mistakes and capitalize on yours. However, they are playing a team they’ve beaten this very same week very convincingly, with most the of same formula. As Dom said in the beginning of the video, your team comp and win conditions are very clear, make plays take small leads to control areas. That’s what they did in game 1&2 with Urgot day 1. I don’t accept the excuse of them having to go balls to the wall for any team comp they pick. If you want to play that way, you pick comps like loud and estral where it’s picks and fighting all game. It’s so frustrating because they picked a comp they’ve proved to be successful against PSG but were not disciplined enough to hold onto their leads.
@@Tristan-ne1vz "In the moment they made the right play" : They were in a zone of overextension, they collectively went auto-pilot because they felt in a winning position. But it's true that it's a mistake a lot of team do at international level. "NRG and TL did good at last years worlds by overchasing, being overly aggressive, and making the game scrappy and volatile." : I have no memories so I trust you on this one, but even then, I don't see how as a professional team, your plan can be aggressively without a methodical snowball. I don't see how a team can be consistent without following principles. Even if you consider that western teams need to play aggressive to disturb and put chaos in the "slow and methodical" playstyle of eastern teams, western teams won't win if their aggessivity isn't pixel perfect, which mean not giving up leads. Western teams have shown that they can get an advantage early game, but they are never able to keep this advantage till the end of the game because they lack ... method and discipline. We won't beat better teams by playing worse than them. And it's not because eastern teams are better that they are perfect, if we were getting at their level, we would be able to punish their mistakes, but usually they don't even have the opportunity to make one because western teams offer themselves first.
@@vasily8315 I think thats fair. This was obviously a blunder from FlyQuest, but my point is simply that western teams will only ever be competitive internationally by limit testing on stage. Which is 1) incredibly risky and 2) easy to criticize in hindsight but not clear in the moment. I simply think its better to encourage limit testing and accept that it was a missplay and move on than to criticize them for limit testing. I personally think the reason why western teams lose their lead in mid to late game isnt because of a lack of method and discipline. G2 was the methodical and disciplined western team last year, and what we consistently saw even in the games they won was they would out macro the early and mid game and get small advantages upwards of 5k gold. Just to lose late game teamfights. Western teams are simply so far behind when it comes to mechanical and positional 5v5 gameplay. By keeping the game scrappy in the late game you open yourself up to mistake but also the opponent. Yes its possible to play methodical and principled, but I don't think this year's NA teams are equipped for that champ pool, draft, or player wise. G2 is the only western team to make it work in recent history but even that is still very shaky versus the worst eastern teams. It definitely is a tough line to balance, but the most successful NA teams in the last few years have always been scrappy. The last time NA really overperformed was C9 coming out of the group of death at 2021 worlds with DWG, FPX, RGE. And this C9 team also got lots of criticism for their own scrappyness when it backfired. I simply think we shouldn't be criticizing teams for taking risks. We should be encouraging it.
As an NA fan, it just feels like ass when I make the effort to change my sleep schedule so I can watch the games, yet these teams make mistakes like this. Great rant tbh. Im just tired and each time shit like this happens I get less and less energetic to watch again.
Its easy to criticize mistakes in hindsight. This same playstyle is what got NA so far last year. Being aggressive and trying to push a lead as far as possible rather than using small leads and playing slow is what got NA wins over EU and close games versus the east.
@@Tristan-ne1vzbro let's be real NRG beat G2 because they played horribly, like 2 times worse than usual, when a team in Europe does what NRG did back then G2 absolutely demolishes them
That's the reason LCS viewership should die, it's the same shit for 10+ years now. Watch 4 months of competition that you know doesn't matter because the team being sent will get dumpstered and never improve. Every year, production team brings back hope. Every year, LCS teams let down the people who support them. I skipped last year's summer split and only watched playoffs, only to come to the same horrendous conclusion
@@Tristan-ne1vz "so far last year" you mean a fluke quarters appearance? that's what "so far" is? also just because it worked doesn't mean its correct... also metas change? "oh why aren't we picking X champion it worked last year" real good logic there I can see you used your whole brain.
@@liammckenna1479 oh really mb? i never watched any post game interview and drama so i thought he's just throwing some shade. Thanks for informing me haha
That's what happens when there's no punishment or paycuts for playing bad, or Riot not removing their third spot despite being a consistent bottom placer in international events.
There is punishments for playing bad. Its called not being in the league. Inspired, Bwipo, Jensen are all players who struggled to get starting spots in NA. And their botlane is probably gone next split or the split after if the budget allows for it. Despite having insane achievements and being some of the best players to ever play in EU and NA
It is not about punishments but the focus. The focus of these teams is to make money not to win. They always try to bring known players and bunch them into teams even if the team will not work at all you may even see what I'd call "legacy" players that should have retired years ago yet still playing in the top league of the region. When your focus is money your product / service suffers and that goes for everything including pro teams and gaming orgs.
Bwipo was taking too many unnecessary engages. Their entire comp work so well at disengage with Maokai Varus and Renata ult. They could always force 5 v 4 by taking someone out with Urgot ult. But instead Bwipo was always greedy for more. He flashed in alone and forced the team to follow up under a Azir turret. He also over chased and needlessly gave a kill at the upper brush later this game.
2 years ago i decided to watch the LCS playoffs because i had nothing to do, i was trying to claw my eyeballs out after watching Tactical int non-stop the whole series but still went on to win because the opponents were inting just as hard. As an LCK fan that was the most disgusting, filthy garbage ass competitive games i've ever seen. LCS will never win shit against eastern teams because they fundamentally can't stop throwing.
Here’s what doesn’t make sense to me. There is so much information, so many different opinions and angles to these kinds of plays. So much content on social media, it’s so easy to watch major regions and dissect their play style, yet it feels like NA has been getting worse every year for the last 7-8 years. The blatant ignorance and refusal to listen, watch, and understand higher levels of play even though teams are infinitely more resourced as orgs than we were back in 2015, which is the last time NA won an international comp at all. It blows my mind how simple their mistakes are that an emerald (me) player can see the problems.
Its easy to criticize mistakes in hindsight. At the end of the day they only get one chance. If they didn't take this fight and go as deep and still lost you would be criticizing them for not being aggressive enough and for playing too slow. Let's not forget that NA had massive success last year with this volatile aggressive playstyle that caught both eastern and EU teams offguard. NRG and TL in their good games were when they were taking fights no one thought they would/should take. Imo yes in hindsight this play was a bad call, but in the moment It's a very good play to take. Its a very well understood principle that if a team is better than you on paper then playing according to principles won't win you the game. You have to take them out of their comfort zone. Playing slow and using slow leads is exactly why EU and NA have lost most their games against the east. Just watched C9 at worlds despite being the best team domestically they did the worst internationally last worlds. They simply play too passive. G2 had the same issue (tbf its less bad since they have the best western players), and the rest of EU looked horrible they just never played aggressive and slowly died out. This principle is appreciated in basically every competitive sport. Just look at Bobby Fischer vs Spassky in Chess. He played incredibly unorthodox and even blundered like crazy before being the first American world champion and an incredibly underdog.
@@Tristan-ne1vz What massive success last year? NA won 1 game against LCK and LPL in 2023 and that was GG in MSI play-ins bo3 vs BLG. I don´t think winning one bo3 against EU is massive success when TL got knocked out by GAM last worlds, C9 by FNC and GG got 3-0ed by BDS.
@@netternachbar6260 It was more successful than EU and the best they've done since 2021. And lets not look at just the records but also the games. TL vs T1 was the closest a western team got to beating a top tier eastern seed in I don't know how many years. People were genuinely thinking TL would steam roll after that game.
@@Tristan-ne1vz NRG had a super easy draw and got to 2 wins by beating MAD and TL and then won against G2, they didn´t win a single game against the East. And about Western teams taking games against the East, G2 won games against BLG and Geng at MSI and BLG and Weibo at Worlds or are those not "top" Eastern Teams? TL in the end still got dunked on by GAM a minor region team, but barely winning 1 game matters more i guess.
@@Tristan-ne1vz Just as another little fun fact by winning 3 games against LCK and LPL at Worlds 2023 G2 has more wins against the East than the NA in the last 4 international tournaments combined.
Doms 100% right. Why do NA teams constantly think they have to go all in and just keep pushing instead of taking what they can get and playing patiently
Patient play = slowly dying. Even G2 was losing teamfights versus the worst eastern teams with 5k gold lead and draft advantage. How do you think NRG and TL did so good at last years worlds? It wasn't from being slow and patient. It was from aggressive and scrappy. Taking the enemy out of their comfort zone. Leaving them no room to breathe and forcing them into situations where they can easily make mistakes. Exactly same way T1 plays. Western teams need to stop playing patient. They will never beat eastern teams that way unless they consistently get better more unique drafts and bigger champ pools which isn't that reliable since once a western team brings a cool champ or idea into the game eastern team will take it and do it better.
@@Tristan-ne1vz I don't think LCS did good at worlds last year, the region is expected to make knockouts and the only NA that did that year NRG was 3-0d immediately after making it there. When you look at the teams they faced: 2 Eu teams, 1 NA team and 1 LPL team. the only reason they didn't go to a tiebreaker is because they overperformed against G2, but still got destroyed by WBG so it means they got a good group and G2 didn't play to THEIR standard is why they advanced. As for TL they lost all 3 games so i don't even think that you should be saying TL did good last year. The West as a whole for either region isn't competitive to eastern teams.
@@keyki9832 I agree the west as a whole isn't competitive with eastern teams, but the most competitive teams were the scrappy aggressive ones. TL didn't win but they had the most convincing game against a top eastern team out of any of the western teams. Compare TL T1 to MAD T1. No they didn't beat G2 because G2 underperformed. They beat them through their own gameplay. G2 was scrim world champs right before they played NRG. Theres really no saying G2 underperformed especially since it was bo3. G2 was playing the same way as they did versus DK and WBG which they only won through miracle teamfights and misplays from their opponents. But lets be real now in both games they won the early/midgame by playing slow and methodical just to get destroyed in teamfights and than clutch at the end from miracle blunders from their opponents while G2 was 10k gold down.
@@Tristan-ne1vz Based on the NRG vs G2 comms it just the exact opposite from your claim tho , the moment all of G2 pace was broke was when BB called to go all in for Sylas when they already lose BB for nothing and NRG snowballed the lead plus last year NRG have their support ignar as main shotcaller and they played exactly what ignar said even when dhokla or pallafox had different thought they just follow ignar call meanwhile G2 almost everyone except hans was shotcalling and played impatient , current NRG and G2 was swapped condition tho G2 comms sounds better with only caps and bb do the call meanwhile NRG cant even go to lcs playoff without ignar as shotcaller
@lazysean5418 I’m not saying teams should lack Comms and be random. I’m saying teams should play proactive and overly aggressive. G2 was not a proactive or aggressive team at all. They played slow and methodical getting small leads and trying to win late game team fights. You can point to times where they overextended in the NRG series, but by far NRG was the more proactive/aggressive team in that series and throughout worlds
You can tell the difference in opinions. Jensen is still pushing and could have come straight to the play if they were gonna force this hard. The team isn't on the same page, and it doesn't seem like there's a plan. There's just "see enemy, kill enemy."
I know he doesn't want to and earns way more money co-streaming, but goddamn with the amount of knowledge Dom has about asian macro he'd be a great analyst coach...
lmao I feel you mate. I've been shitting on Toronto hockey fans and media for quite a few years (mostly because it's just fun but partly also because I find both of them quite obnoxious) but I actually found myself geniunely rooting for the Leafs to get that game 7 just for the fans to not have to go through the same shit for 20 years now. (And part of me wants Pasta back in Czechia to represent the national team in the home IIHF WC even though I'm sure the SC is far more prestigious).
Bro. The way you are advocating for western teams to play is the reason why they do bad every year. Playing methodical and principled just means slowly losing to better teams. When you are against a better opponent (every eastern team) you have to play unorthodox and bring them out of their comfort zone. Just look at TL and NRG in their massive upsets. They achieved it by playing unorthodox and incredibly aggressive taking fights no one expected them to. Look at C9 and EU. They played orthodox according to principles playing slower and they just slowly lost the game. Even when they were 3k - 5k up in gold by 20 mins they were losing teamfights, and just slowly bled out. G2 the best western team showcased why that playstyle doesn't work. Even in miracle early and mid games eventually you just get outclassed by eastern teams unless they make insane blunders. Yes G2 can maybe make it work since they have insane talent, drafts, and champion pools, but I really don't think any other teams should be following their ideas unless they build as strong of a team. I would much rather see more NRGs and TLs.
@@Tristan-ne1vz wdym slowly losing? here they gained a lead and then inted it away the next second. playing slow and methodical AFTER you gain a lead should just be obvious
It's insane that NA teams don't actually understand the concept of tempo when it is one of, if not the most important concept in pro play & is ultimately quite simple
It was tough watching Inspired and Bwipo gifting a huge lead to the enemy mid lane in game two by continuing to over chase. I am sure Inspired will find a way to blame his team though.
I don't get why Inspired gets hate for his interview. He was making valid points about mistakes in his team's gameplay and also his own. He took just as much blame as he put on Jensen. Its essential a team gets constructive criticism to improve. First we complain that western players don't criticize their mistakes enough and when they do criticize their mistakes they get hate?? Makes no sense
its about time, i been saying this for so long, im tired of supports roaming at level 2 because i won a trade and have slightly more hp than my laner and my adc took a bad trade so obviously abandon it and go mid right STOP FORCING SHIT LET THEM FUCK UP ITS NA. we dont need to try just wait for the fuck up.
Interesting fact is that NA has done better than EU internationally over the past 3 years. Theres a reddit thread comparing their head to head and overall winrates at each stage and NA's winrate is very comparible if not better overall. Most of this is because of the 2021 and 2023 worlds where NA has been ahead. Every other tournament they've been pretty even or EU slightly better.
is this a joke? What NA won in 2021/2022 they never beat azian teams and get fisted my every eu team ... what are you smoking? give me so of that copium, ok the NRG fluke happened... where g2 pplayed their worst game and contractz had game of his life... congrats man, EU always outperformed NA , your region is joke and TL will get reality check soon too
You have to be the most braindead na fan there is 2020: g2 semifinals at world, fnatic top 8 losing 3:2 to tes, na not even advancing groups 2021: mad and tl both top 8 2022: rogue top 8, na not even leaving groups 2023: g2 beats 3 asian teams, fnatic eliminates c9; gg gets 3-0ed by bds, tl loses to gam
idk I could be way off but it seems to me that NA players are way more focused on their ego and having fun than winning. Like the all chatting stuff, the way i hear the teams voice comms in game, they're just memeing and barely taking the game seriously. If you're performing at the highest level in something, I feel like you shouldn't joke about it.
Even if you don’t see the tp coming in, it’s still taking a bad fight in a choke. You have tempo, you killed rumble, and you burned viego flash. You should know that azir backed and will show up somewhere, you don’t even need to see the tp. You don’t know where senna is, and you’re chasing a naut into a choke. It should be obvious that it’s a bad fight to take. Seems clear that bwipo and inspired were shot calling poorly all week. They 100% earned this early flight home.
Is that what people say is wrong? I think the problem is that they don't play their own game. JDG is going to play like JDG internationally. Actually LPL and LEC in general are going to play exactly in the way they do regular season. LCK is very emotional and Faker inting his first worlds set the tone for how things CAN go for LCK,. namely they can play very well and look solid but there's always the risk they will rush something, overforce, tunnel vision etc and lose. LCS is also very emotional but it's guaranteed to show up in their games with every member. They dont look like their regular season selves and individually there's a different problem everywhere. They go face, they try to 1v9, they hug fountain and cry, they attempt bizarre hail marys for no reason, they focus tanks, it's always a surprise what they do, even to themselves.
even if maple didnt TP (TP bot, covers top or anything)and they didnt get wiped, you can clearly see Bwipo dying from the overchase making it a 1 for 1 and they just lost tempo anyway. How is it ever worth going for this play?
Jensen although he is one who got farthest in worlds from NA, should not have been seed 2 or win as of now in these standard from the east, but he is one of the best in NA thats show you how much NA lacks behind
He's like a mid tier NA midlaner right now, and he got the furthest years ago. A comparative statement: "Perkz is one of the best EU midlaners to ever touch the game and he's currently worse than the majority of NA midlaners. That just shows you how much EU lacks behind"
Somebody needs to invest in a software to let this guy do like Madden style circles and arrows on screen. Not a LoL fan but do they have coaches? Maybe League of Legends teams need a coach cuz this sounds like Coach.
Thats exactly how TL almost beat C9 and how NRG beat G2. Being overly aggressive is why NA did so good at worlds last year. Playing slow and methodical = slowly bleeding out vs eastern teams. Even with a 5k gold lead G2 the best western team and draft advantages was losing teamfights to the worst eastern teams. So why would you opt into a slowpaced teamfight oriented game? Make the game scrappy and make the opponent have room for mistakes. T1 does the exact same stuff and thats why they looked so much better than GenG. They simply took enemy teams out of their comfort zone and prevented them from slowing the game down.
Dom’s anger feels so true against NA regions acting the way they do. Like the definition of insanity they KEEP DOING THE SAME SHIT EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS. I’m honestly surprised Dom didn’t scream FUCK NA SUCKS. Lmao
I dont even think Western players are that far beind in player skill and mechanics, especially with all the korean imports. Long gone are the days korean players can be up 50cs in lane at 20min 1v1. But the execution on teamfights and understanding of team comp fundamentals. I really feel like the gap between NA and the east just keep widening.
NA has the worst pros in the scene literally bar none, I'm not sure why we're still shocked that we "underperform" and make stupid mistakes (really this is probably our peak level of performance that we're capable of as a region)
Is it tho? I swear this gets said every year. Last msi c9 went 0-6 vs other regions and gg went 0-6 overall in the main event. At worlds 2022 NA barely went 3-15 in groups. The league didnt die from that so who knows
NA LoL suffers the same way NA football ( soccer ) suffers there's no money in it. I'm not saying the players and coaches aren't payed enough but, there's no money in the middle nothing to encourage coaching or players to come to NA. There's also no money being invested in creating players either, they have to find a way to make money for food and housing on their own while trying to grind away most go to streaming and just stay there cause the monies easier. The scariest part is people in NA don't see this and think pay cuts or taking away from the league is the answer when the answer is the country doesn't give them enough to begin with.
You clearly do not understand the economy of the LCS. For example, Perkz's salary was 2 million dollars to go to NA. You only have to look at the team's sponsors to know there's a lot of money in it.
@@lukeoliver1189 - I'm not saying the players and coaches aren't payed enough but, - said by me 1 hour ago at least read the whole thing the issue isn't the pros making money the issues there's no money involved in becoming a pro player.
@@axxura5286 That really doesn't make a difference. There's no money in becoming a pro player for any region, they do it out of passion and competition.
@@lukeoliver1189 South Korea has a school for it which cost money to run South Korea, Europe and China consider pro players as athletes which normally means there is funding somewhere to develop more of them. NA has none of that
@@axxura5286 Europe does not consider its players athletes and they do not get any special treatment. If you want to go pro here, you do it via your own means, you play until you're good enough for a team to notice, nothing other than that
Dom when it comes to hating: I got one more in me
you call this hating? ur a FLY fan or what?
he's right
@@smokiebatch8044 bwipo's Mom
as a meme, sure. but theres no hating in this clip
@@persephone9360 I'm just farming +2s brother we outchea
"Ranting is the best content for 3AM" thats the highlight of my streamer
you know it's a good one when Dom says "it's so unnecessary for no reason" and good morning Rachel ... thank you for your sacrifice.
Who is this Rachel that he is cheating on us with, explain.
at first i was like: aw man, its pretty bad if Dom cant even muster up the energy to be angry about this, its like the disappointment has pushed out every other possible emotion a human might have
3:50 thanks dom, i was worried for a second :)
1:04 "they see tp coming in" now thats a bold claim and a half
they should see tp the coming in hehe
I mean he addresses that statement in the next 15 seconds, saying even if they didn't see what they should do
They can, but did they? I don't know
🤣🤣
nah he said You see tp comong in, he knew they didn't from jump
It used to be annoying when team mates would spam pings to make you back off from situations like this. It was annoying because no shit we're going to back off. We see the danger, we see it's a stretch. Stop stating the obvious.
But now we just have pro players, paid stupid amounts of money, who don't have the awareness while in a 5 person voice chat, to not overchase a tank into his own jungle.
Bro I promise you if FlyQuest backed off we would be flaming them for being too passive. In the moment they made the right play. In hindsight they made the wrong play. Let's stop backseating these guys so hard.
NRG and TL did good at last years worlds by overchasing, being overly aggressive, and making the game scrappy and volatile. How do you expect to beat eastern teams playing slow and methodical? Even G2 loses teamfights against the worst eastern teams 5k gold up. Playing principled is a terrible gameplan against a better team.
Sure PSG isnt that good so you can play methodical versus them, but they still have Junjia and Maple do we really want to playing for 55/45 teamfights against eastern super stars? And against the better teams this play style is what they need anyways so might as well perfect it now than save it for later.
@@Tristan-ne1vzI see your point and somewhat agree on the need for NA or just weaker teams in general to be first to make the plays to get them ahead because the better team will make less mistakes and capitalize on yours.
However, they are playing a team they’ve beaten this very same week very convincingly, with most the of same formula. As Dom said in the beginning of the video, your team comp and win conditions are very clear, make plays take small leads to control areas. That’s what they did in game 1&2 with Urgot day 1.
I don’t accept the excuse of them having to go balls to the wall for any team comp they pick. If you want to play that way, you pick comps like loud and estral where it’s picks and fighting all game. It’s so frustrating because they picked a comp they’ve proved to be successful against PSG but were not disciplined enough to hold onto their leads.
@@Tristan-ne1vz "In the moment they made the right play" : They were in a zone of overextension, they collectively went auto-pilot because they felt in a winning position. But it's true that it's a mistake a lot of team do at international level.
"NRG and TL did good at last years worlds by overchasing, being overly aggressive, and making the game scrappy and volatile." : I have no memories so I trust you on this one, but even then, I don't see how as a professional team, your plan can be aggressively without a methodical snowball. I don't see how a team can be consistent without following principles.
Even if you consider that western teams need to play aggressive to disturb and put chaos in the "slow and methodical" playstyle of eastern teams, western teams won't win if their aggessivity isn't pixel perfect, which mean not giving up leads. Western teams have shown that they can get an advantage early game, but they are never able to keep this advantage till the end of the game because they lack ... method and discipline.
We won't beat better teams by playing worse than them. And it's not because eastern teams are better that they are perfect, if we were getting at their level, we would be able to punish their mistakes, but usually they don't even have the opportunity to make one because western teams offer themselves first.
No we wouldn't flame them what. The first game is so hard winnable. In what world did TL do last worlds?@@Tristan-ne1vz
@@vasily8315 I think thats fair. This was obviously a blunder from FlyQuest, but my point is simply that western teams will only ever be competitive internationally by limit testing on stage. Which is 1) incredibly risky and 2) easy to criticize in hindsight but not clear in the moment. I simply think its better to encourage limit testing and accept that it was a missplay and move on than to criticize them for limit testing.
I personally think the reason why western teams lose their lead in mid to late game isnt because of a lack of method and discipline. G2 was the methodical and disciplined western team last year, and what we consistently saw even in the games they won was they would out macro the early and mid game and get small advantages upwards of 5k gold. Just to lose late game teamfights. Western teams are simply so far behind when it comes to mechanical and positional 5v5 gameplay. By keeping the game scrappy in the late game you open yourself up to mistake but also the opponent. Yes its possible to play methodical and principled, but I don't think this year's NA teams are equipped for that champ pool, draft, or player wise. G2 is the only western team to make it work in recent history but even that is still very shaky versus the worst eastern teams.
It definitely is a tough line to balance, but the most successful NA teams in the last few years have always been scrappy. The last time NA really overperformed was C9 coming out of the group of death at 2021 worlds with DWG, FPX, RGE. And this C9 team also got lots of criticism for their own scrappyness when it backfired. I simply think we shouldn't be criticizing teams for taking risks. We should be encouraging it.
As an EU fan I am just here to thank FlyQuest for generating new memes.
"Nautilus is trolling no???" WideBoris
As an NA fan, it just feels like ass when I make the effort to change my sleep schedule so I can watch the games, yet these teams make mistakes like this.
Great rant tbh. Im just tired and each time shit like this happens I get less and less energetic to watch again.
Its easy to criticize mistakes in hindsight. This same playstyle is what got NA so far last year. Being aggressive and trying to push a lead as far as possible rather than using small leads and playing slow is what got NA wins over EU and close games versus the east.
You change your sleep schedule to watch NA play. I use these games to fall asleep. We are not built the same 😂
@@Tristan-ne1vzbro let's be real NRG beat G2 because they played horribly, like 2 times worse than usual, when a team in Europe does what NRG did back then G2 absolutely demolishes them
That's the reason LCS viewership should die, it's the same shit for 10+ years now. Watch 4 months of competition that you know doesn't matter because the team being sent will get dumpstered and never improve. Every year, production team brings back hope. Every year, LCS teams let down the people who support them. I skipped last year's summer split and only watched playoffs, only to come to the same horrendous conclusion
@@Tristan-ne1vz "so far last year" you mean a fluke quarters appearance? that's what "so far" is? also just because it worked doesn't mean its correct... also metas change? "oh why aren't we picking X champion it worked last year" real good logic there I can see you used your whole brain.
LOL THAT'S FROM MASSU'S INTERVIEW HAHAHA " when asian teams gained a little lead, they won't let go of it no matter what " AHHAHAHAH
It is said every year though
@@liammckenna1479 oh really mb? i never watched any post game interview and drama so i thought he's just throwing some shade. Thanks for informing me haha
It’s funny that Bwipo will talk for hours explaining pretty much the same kinda concepts but when he’s in game he shits his pants
So talk about the coach and invite him to play then.
League of Legends will always have the same concepts but every game is different. You will never win consistently just by yourself in proplay.
Well of course, since it's way harder to execute than analyze a play.
@@joangallegoq so what? We gonna get bwipo's girlfriend to play now?
Dang Rachael really had to wake up to that
That's what happens when there's no punishment or paycuts for playing bad, or Riot not removing their third spot despite being a consistent bottom placer in international events.
true, imagine if u got last place as a major region the worst team gets waterboarded for 1min, how fking good players would get real quick
Well, NA did outplace EU at the last international tourney so they wouldn't have lost a spot for MSI regardless.
There is punishments for playing bad. Its called not being in the league. Inspired, Bwipo, Jensen are all players who struggled to get starting spots in NA. And their botlane is probably gone next split or the split after if the budget allows for it. Despite having insane achievements and being some of the best players to ever play in EU and NA
Like nba and other American sports
It is not about punishments but the focus. The focus of these teams is to make money not to win. They always try to bring known players and bunch them into teams even if the team will not work at all you may even see what I'd call "legacy" players that should have retired years ago yet still playing in the top league of the region. When your focus is money your product / service suffers and that goes for everything including pro teams and gaming orgs.
OMG I love this, my brain feels free, great rant! also love the gm rachel xD
Its 3 Am and of all languages Dom chose to speak facts. Respect.
The crack is strong in this one
Bwipo cosplaying as Evi.
It's the discipline, as well as communication
Bwipo is def calling to go go go
Massu in his interview, when he was asked about, what he had picked up from playing against the likes of Guma Keria:
'They actually don't run it down'
Elite rant
Bwipo was taking too many unnecessary engages. Their entire comp work so well at disengage with Maokai Varus and Renata ult. They could always force 5 v 4 by taking someone out with Urgot ult. But instead Bwipo was always greedy for more. He flashed in alone and forced the team to follow up under a Azir turret. He also over chased and needlessly gave a kill at the upper brush later this game.
This is so true mid to late game na seems to think that spreading pressure is going mid to aram.
this was one of those cases where what starts out as winning actually starts to turn against you kind of how we see battles at war
2 years ago i decided to watch the LCS playoffs because i had nothing to do, i was trying to claw my eyeballs out after watching Tactical int non-stop the whole series but still went on to win because the opponents were inting just as hard.
As an LCK fan that was the most disgusting, filthy garbage ass competitive games i've ever seen.
LCS will never win shit against eastern teams because they fundamentally can't stop throwing.
If doublelift was your best player for over half a decade, your region is hopeless
just a throw away algo comment.. but dom kicking into high gear like that had me rolling
Nukeduck about to diagnose the whole team
Here’s what doesn’t make sense to me.
There is so much information, so many different opinions and angles to these kinds of plays. So much content on social media, it’s so easy to watch major regions and dissect their play style, yet it feels like NA has been getting worse every year for the last 7-8 years.
The blatant ignorance and refusal to listen, watch, and understand higher levels of play even though teams are infinitely more resourced as orgs than we were back in 2015, which is the last time NA won an international comp at all.
It blows my mind how simple their mistakes are that an emerald (me) player can see the problems.
Its easy to criticize mistakes in hindsight. At the end of the day they only get one chance. If they didn't take this fight and go as deep and still lost you would be criticizing them for not being aggressive enough and for playing too slow.
Let's not forget that NA had massive success last year with this volatile aggressive playstyle that caught both eastern and EU teams offguard. NRG and TL in their good games were when they were taking fights no one thought they would/should take. Imo yes in hindsight this play was a bad call, but in the moment It's a very good play to take.
Its a very well understood principle that if a team is better than you on paper then playing according to principles won't win you the game. You have to take them out of their comfort zone. Playing slow and using slow leads is exactly why EU and NA have lost most their games against the east. Just watched C9 at worlds despite being the best team domestically they did the worst internationally last worlds. They simply play too passive. G2 had the same issue (tbf its less bad since they have the best western players), and the rest of EU looked horrible they just never played aggressive and slowly died out.
This principle is appreciated in basically every competitive sport. Just look at Bobby Fischer vs Spassky in Chess. He played incredibly unorthodox and even blundered like crazy before being the first American world champion and an incredibly underdog.
@@Tristan-ne1vz What massive success last year? NA won 1 game against LCK and LPL in 2023 and that was GG in MSI play-ins bo3 vs BLG. I don´t think winning one bo3 against EU is massive success when TL got knocked out by GAM last worlds, C9 by FNC and GG got 3-0ed by BDS.
@@netternachbar6260 It was more successful than EU and the best they've done since 2021. And lets not look at just the records but also the games. TL vs T1 was the closest a western team got to beating a top tier eastern seed in I don't know how many years. People were genuinely thinking TL would steam roll after that game.
@@Tristan-ne1vz NRG had a super easy draw and got to 2 wins by beating MAD and TL and then won against G2, they didn´t win a single game against the East. And about Western teams taking games against the East, G2 won games against BLG and Geng at MSI and BLG and Weibo at Worlds or are those not "top" Eastern Teams? TL in the end still got dunked on by GAM a minor region team, but barely winning 1 game matters more i guess.
@@Tristan-ne1vz Just as another little fun fact by winning 3 games against LCK and LPL at Worlds 2023 G2 has more wins against the East than the NA in the last 4 international tournaments combined.
Doms 100% right. Why do NA teams constantly think they have to go all in and just keep pushing instead of taking what they can get and playing patiently
Patient play = slowly dying. Even G2 was losing teamfights versus the worst eastern teams with 5k gold lead and draft advantage. How do you think NRG and TL did so good at last years worlds? It wasn't from being slow and patient. It was from aggressive and scrappy. Taking the enemy out of their comfort zone. Leaving them no room to breathe and forcing them into situations where they can easily make mistakes. Exactly same way T1 plays.
Western teams need to stop playing patient. They will never beat eastern teams that way unless they consistently get better more unique drafts and bigger champ pools which isn't that reliable since once a western team brings a cool champ or idea into the game eastern team will take it and do it better.
@@Tristan-ne1vz I don't think LCS did good at worlds last year, the region is expected to make knockouts and the only NA that did that year NRG was 3-0d immediately after making it there. When you look at the teams they faced: 2 Eu teams, 1 NA team and 1 LPL team. the only reason they didn't go to a tiebreaker is because they overperformed against G2, but still got destroyed by WBG so it means they got a good group and G2 didn't play to THEIR standard is why they advanced. As for TL they lost all 3 games so i don't even think that you should be saying TL did good last year. The West as a whole for either region isn't competitive to eastern teams.
@@keyki9832 I agree the west as a whole isn't competitive with eastern teams, but the most competitive teams were the scrappy aggressive ones. TL didn't win but they had the most convincing game against a top eastern team out of any of the western teams. Compare TL T1 to MAD T1.
No they didn't beat G2 because G2 underperformed. They beat them through their own gameplay. G2 was scrim world champs right before they played NRG. Theres really no saying G2 underperformed especially since it was bo3. G2 was playing the same way as they did versus DK and WBG which they only won through miracle teamfights and misplays from their opponents. But lets be real now in both games they won the early/midgame by playing slow and methodical just to get destroyed in teamfights and than clutch at the end from miracle blunders from their opponents while G2 was 10k gold down.
@@Tristan-ne1vz Based on the NRG vs G2 comms it just the exact opposite from your claim tho , the moment all of G2 pace was broke was when BB called to go all in for Sylas when they already lose BB for nothing and NRG snowballed the lead plus last year NRG have their support ignar as main shotcaller and they played exactly what ignar said even when dhokla or pallafox had different thought they just follow ignar call meanwhile G2 almost everyone except hans was shotcalling and played impatient , current NRG and G2 was swapped condition tho G2 comms sounds better with only caps and bb do the call meanwhile NRG cant even go to lcs playoff without ignar as shotcaller
@lazysean5418 I’m not saying teams should lack Comms and be random. I’m saying teams should play proactive and overly aggressive. G2 was not a proactive or aggressive team at all. They played slow and methodical getting small leads and trying to win late game team fights. You can point to times where they overextended in the NRG series, but by far NRG was the more proactive/aggressive team in that series and throughout worlds
crazy how Caedrel said that the exact same thing. then again, that's probably because it is true...
Watching in 2x speed makes this 10 times more funny
You can tell the difference in opinions. Jensen is still pushing and could have come straight to the play if they were gonna force this hard. The team isn't on the same page, and it doesn't seem like there's a plan. There's just "see enemy, kill enemy."
I know he doesn't want to and earns way more money co-streaming, but goddamn with the amount of knowledge Dom has about asian macro he'd be a great analyst coach...
Bwipo glazers really quiet rn
"RANTING IS THE BEST CONTENT FOR 3 AM" just killed me 2h21 XD
This play feels so Fnatic that I need to keep on reminding myself every 5 seconds that it's actually flyquest
Based dom rant
Bwipo's choking in big moments needs to be studied
I needed this. If you can do one for the Leafs that would be cool 😎
lmao I feel you mate. I've been shitting on Toronto hockey fans and media for quite a few years (mostly because it's just fun but partly also because I find both of them quite obnoxious) but I actually found myself geniunely rooting for the Leafs to get that game 7 just for the fans to not have to go through the same shit for 20 years now. (And part of me wants Pasta back in Czechia to represent the national team in the home IIHF WC even though I'm sure the SC is far more prestigious).
Seriously I can’t even escape this shit even in the doldrums of an esports video comment section…please stop
Let’s ignore the fact that PSG Maple did Faker’s Flash Azir Shuffle, holy shit it’s a nightmare to flyquest
PSG has good talent, maple and junjia , and Betty is not bad as well
Bwipo/Inspired were overforcing so many fights this series. Feels bad because our NA rookies were playing well
Honestly it's criminal that T1 had to play play-ins meanwhile TL got a free pass, like bro we don't even know if they'd beat PSG too lol
I think Bwipo is a big inter. He might work against weaker teams but as soon as a team matches their skill he becomes and instant griefer.
Dom on his yellow flash arc
You can’t be this upset and not care, Dom is what an NA should be: righteously pissed off at their bullshit
NA coaches/teams/players have fundamental misunderstandings of how High-Level League works, always have and always will.
Bro. The way you are advocating for western teams to play is the reason why they do bad every year. Playing methodical and principled just means slowly losing to better teams. When you are against a better opponent (every eastern team) you have to play unorthodox and bring them out of their comfort zone.
Just look at TL and NRG in their massive upsets. They achieved it by playing unorthodox and incredibly aggressive taking fights no one expected them to. Look at C9 and EU. They played orthodox according to principles playing slower and they just slowly lost the game. Even when they were 3k - 5k up in gold by 20 mins they were losing teamfights, and just slowly bled out. G2 the best western team showcased why that playstyle doesn't work. Even in miracle early and mid games eventually you just get outclassed by eastern teams unless they make insane blunders.
Yes G2 can maybe make it work since they have insane talent, drafts, and champion pools, but I really don't think any other teams should be following their ideas unless they build as strong of a team. I would much rather see more NRGs and TLs.
@@Tristan-ne1vz wdym slowly losing? here they gained a lead and then inted it away the next second. playing slow and methodical AFTER you gain a lead should just be obvious
getting angry a lot can be a waste of energy
It's insane that NA teams don't actually understand the concept of tempo when it is one of, if not the most important concept in pro play & is ultimately quite simple
It was tough watching Inspired and Bwipo gifting a huge lead to the enemy mid lane in game two by continuing to over chase. I am sure Inspired will find a way to blame his team though.
I don't get why Inspired gets hate for his interview. He was making valid points about mistakes in his team's gameplay and also his own. He took just as much blame as he put on Jensen. Its essential a team gets constructive criticism to improve. First we complain that western players don't criticize their mistakes enough and when they do criticize their mistakes they get hate?? Makes no sense
its about time, i been saying this for so long, im tired of supports roaming at level 2 because i won a trade and have slightly more hp than my laner and my adc took a bad trade so obviously abandon it and go mid right STOP FORCING SHIT LET THEM FUCK UP ITS NA. we dont need to try just wait for the fuck up.
Interesting fact is that NA has done better than EU internationally over the past 3 years. Theres a reddit thread comparing their head to head and overall winrates at each stage and NA's winrate is very comparible if not better overall. Most of this is because of the 2021 and 2023 worlds where NA has been ahead. Every other tournament they've been pretty even or EU slightly better.
is this a joke? What NA won in 2021/2022 they never beat azian teams and get fisted my every eu team ... what are you smoking? give me so of that copium, ok the NRG fluke happened... where g2 pplayed their worst game and contractz had game of his life... congrats man, EU always outperformed NA , your region is joke and TL will get reality check soon too
You have to be the most braindead na fan there is
2020: g2 semifinals at world, fnatic top 8 losing 3:2 to tes, na not even advancing groups
2021: mad and tl both top 8
2022: rogue top 8, na not even leaving groups
2023: g2 beats 3 asian teams, fnatic eliminates c9; gg gets 3-0ed by bds, tl loses to gam
idk I could be way off but it seems to me that NA players are way more focused on their ego and having fun than winning. Like the all chatting stuff, the way i hear the teams voice comms in game, they're just memeing and barely taking the game seriously. If you're performing at the highest level in something, I feel like you shouldn't joke about it.
Even if you don’t see the tp coming in, it’s still taking a bad fight in a choke. You have tempo, you killed rumble, and you burned viego flash. You should know that azir backed and will show up somewhere, you don’t even need to see the tp. You don’t know where senna is, and you’re chasing a naut into a choke. It should be obvious that it’s a bad fight to take. Seems clear that bwipo and inspired were shot calling poorly all week. They 100% earned this early flight home.
Also good morning rachel
Grandpa it's 3 am, please take your meds and go to bed.
Is that what people say is wrong? I think the problem is that they don't play their own game. JDG is going to play like JDG internationally. Actually LPL and LEC in general are going to play exactly in the way they do regular season. LCK is very emotional and Faker inting his first worlds set the tone for how things CAN go for LCK,. namely they can play very well and look solid but there's always the risk they will rush something, overforce, tunnel vision etc and lose.
LCS is also very emotional but it's guaranteed to show up in their games with every member. They dont look like their regular season selves and individually there's a different problem everywhere. They go face, they try to 1v9, they hug fountain and cry, they attempt bizarre hail marys for no reason, they focus tanks, it's always a surprise what they do, even to themselves.
LEC plays budget version of LCK/LPL. They have no identity.
even if maple didnt TP (TP bot, covers top or anything)and they didnt get wiped, you can clearly see Bwipo dying from the overchase making it a 1 for 1 and they just lost tempo anyway. How is it ever worth going for this play?
Kendrick and Dom, good time for hater content
Jensen although he is one who got farthest in worlds from NA, should not have been seed 2 or win as of now in these standard from the east, but he is one of the best in NA thats show you how much NA lacks behind
He's like a mid tier NA midlaner right now, and he got the furthest years ago. A comparative statement: "Perkz is one of the best EU midlaners to ever touch the game and he's currently worse than the majority of NA midlaners. That just shows you how much EU lacks behind"
keep in mind, this team was suppose to be the favorites to win LCS
we need unlimited head coach power dom to save na ;o;
Domdrick Lavera
Who's the biggest hater in the world, Dom on league players or Kendrick on Drake?
Somebody needs to invest in a software to let this guy do like Madden style circles and arrows on screen. Not a LoL fan but do they have coaches? Maybe League of Legends teams need a coach cuz this sounds like Coach.
bro sounding like Zy0x yapping about vermillion
This will be GOOD
Risk/Reward Evaluation should be a basic consideration before engaging wtf…
Overchase, overstay and then throw the game = classic NA experience
Thats exactly how TL almost beat C9 and how NRG beat G2. Being overly aggressive is why NA did so good at worlds last year. Playing slow and methodical = slowly bleeding out vs eastern teams. Even with a 5k gold lead G2 the best western team and draft advantages was losing teamfights to the worst eastern teams. So why would you opt into a slowpaced teamfight oriented game? Make the game scrappy and make the opponent have room for mistakes. T1 does the exact same stuff and thats why they looked so much better than GenG. They simply took enemy teams out of their comfort zone and prevented them from slowing the game down.
Dom’s anger feels so true against NA regions acting the way they do. Like the definition of insanity they KEEP DOING THE SAME SHIT EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS. I’m honestly surprised Dom didn’t scream FUCK NA SUCKS. Lmao
Is this such a surprise LOOOOOOL
I dont even think Western players are that far beind in player skill and mechanics, especially with all the korean imports. Long gone are the days korean players can be up 50cs in lane at 20min 1v1. But the execution on teamfights and understanding of team comp fundamentals. I really feel like the gap between NA and the east just keep widening.
Leffler Landing
wasn't NA supposed to be stronger than EU this year ?
NA has the worst pros in the scene literally bar none, I'm not sure why we're still shocked that we "underperform" and make stupid mistakes (really this is probably our peak level of performance that we're capable of as a region)
Dom hating on NA teams is so funny because NA teams will continue to play like this and will never improve.
Wilson Curve
i really wanna know whats the means of “poke”
If TL perform badly it's over for LCS 😂
At least during playoffs, TL looked like they finally learned how to take small advantages and play like a real team! [Inhales weapons grade copium]
Is it tho? I swear this gets said every year. Last msi c9 went 0-6 vs other regions and gg went 0-6 overall in the main event. At worlds 2022 NA barely went 3-15 in groups. The league didnt die from that so who knows
But did Rachel have a good morning?
I pray Bwipo sees this video
NA LoL suffers the same way NA football ( soccer ) suffers there's no money in it. I'm not saying the players and coaches aren't payed enough but, there's no money in the middle nothing to encourage coaching or players to come to NA. There's also no money being invested in creating players either, they have to find a way to make money for food and housing on their own while trying to grind away most go to streaming and just stay there cause the monies easier. The scariest part is people in NA don't see this and think pay cuts or taking away from the league is the answer when the answer is the country doesn't give them enough to begin with.
You clearly do not understand the economy of the LCS. For example, Perkz's salary was 2 million dollars to go to NA. You only have to look at the team's sponsors to know there's a lot of money in it.
@@lukeoliver1189 - I'm not saying the players and coaches aren't payed enough but, - said by me 1 hour ago at least read the whole thing the issue isn't the pros making money the issues there's no money involved in becoming a pro player.
@@axxura5286 That really doesn't make a difference. There's no money in becoming a pro player for any region, they do it out of passion and competition.
@@lukeoliver1189 South Korea has a school for it which cost money to run South Korea, Europe and China consider pro players as athletes which normally means there is funding somewhere to develop more of them. NA has none of that
@@axxura5286 Europe does not consider its players athletes and they do not get any special treatment. If you want to go pro here, you do it via your own means, you play until you're good enough for a team to notice, nothing other than that
coach dom only way to save a NA
Since our best team c9 didn’t work out NA is gonna look extra trash this year. Unless they get their act together this is gonna be NA’s worst year.
Dom should go coach
Nice dosage of hate in the morning. Now the day can start
How is this rant? What this guy said is actually based
Perfect coach
Jarret Prairie
so true actually
Magnifico
Jerrell Ford
good morning rachel 😊
I love this shit, so true man haha
Where is nrg?
i didnt even get to see the clip ffs
This has been said over and over again....NA teams do not understand strategy...and when called out on it they bitch and moan.
I think Dom is the only one who's a bigger hater than Kendrick
Reichert Cliff
Cooldown resetting isn't in their vocabulary i guess, goto aram and learn how to reset fight winning plays over running it down off cooldowns