I think the sense of rarity/prestige for RGB comes from the fact that Europe and Japan (in the form of JP21) got this way before we had anything close here in the states. We want what we can’t (or couldn’t) have! Coupled with the fact that our component video just wasn’t all that sexy or well marketed when it did finally go mainstream leaves RGB with mystique and an aura of superiority. It’s really six of one, half a dozen of another. If you can get your retro console to display either properly - you win…
I wasted a bunch of time RGB modding my component tv (sharp) and found that rgb, on this particular set was actually inferior. The component picture was sharper and more vibrant, and not in the artificially sharpened sense. The RGB picture was noticeably softer. I ended up ripping all the wiring out and going back to stock component. lesson learned.
I saw a video where a guy RGB modded his TV and everything looked off. The image was over saturated and too bright. There is always a possibility that you won't get the circuit perfect when doing a RGB mod. I have a review coming out on a Sharp X Flat. Do you have one of those models?
@@riggel8804 I used to have a flat sharp 32". it had the best geometry I've ever seen on a flat consumer TV. I regret getting rid of it. The one I have now is a 27" curved tube and, to my eyes, looks just as good as any JVC D-series I've had.
@@rastanthebarbarian I've heard a lot of good things about sharp tubes. The one I reviewed (i haven't posted it yet) looked excellent. Unfortunately I couldn't find a way to turn off it's edge enhancement feature. Thanks for letting me know that there are curved sharps with component. I didn't know that.
@@riggel8804 it was manufactured in 2006. also has a digital tuner. model number 27sc260. keep your eye out for one, they're nice! to disable the VSM (edge enhancement crap) on sharp tvs, you can mess with the VSM GAIN option in the service menu, or physically disconnect the VM coil's power cable. on my 32 inch it was a 2 wire harness with a yellow and white wire that connected to the yoke.
@@rastanthebarbarian Cool thanks. I will include the vm tip in the description of my video. Wish I would have know about that sooner. Excellent TV besides the edge enhancement.
People want rare and expensive items that nobody has to show how important they are and what a mega collector they have become. In today’s retro gaming world the actual playing of games is on the bottom of totem poll. I figured I might as well make a few videos on my channel to show off the PVMs and what not but I’m definitely not a contest creator or pro you tuber. I’m just an old school gamer with an iPhone 📱 Your channel Riggs is outstanding and informative. Definitely learning more on how to properly get my collection dialed in. 🏆
Thanks! I like ro monitors and I think it's cool you are making videos on them. I' enjoy your videos. Making videos is fun. I've been holding off on doing videos on my pro monitors but now is probably a good time. I don't want people to think I am anti-pro monitor.
I think there was also the problem that people in general didn't become aware of Component until right at the end of its lifespan. The first major console that shipped with Component cables was the 360. However this is also right when the switch from analog CRT to Digital LCD TVs was in full swing. Just two years into its lifespan the 360 switched to HDMI as its main output. So to most people Component was less about color quality and more about image resolution. So only a very few ever knew they could get Component out of earlier consoles like the PS2 or that it was on option on TVs at all. Hell even S-Video (which offers probably the biggest leap in image clarity) was seriously undersold/used. When I was a kid I thought it was just a special port to plug a computer into a TV, while VGA was for Monitors. This was the only time I ever saw S-Video being used in the wild. And no wonder when the default cable they sold with every single device was Composite. Until HDMI rolled out you had to go out of your way and spend extra to get that S-Video or Component cable. So the lack of personal experience with Component (never included in the box), its confusingly similar name to Composite and coupled with using the same plug-style. Just made people assume it was the standard A/V snake oil. Especially when there is this beefy looking connector from overseas that legend tells does full RGB.
Yeah when I look on old online posts most people talking about componet are more interested in getting HD resolutions out of it. Something retro gamers don't really care about. If we want hd we are using hdmi. It's crazy how short lived component was compared to hdmi. Shit, HDMI is still going. When I was a kid I always used rf. I remember having a friend who tried to convince my friends and I to use composite because it looked better and we all teased him. Later, when I first got into CRTs I used s video. It was easy to find tvs and cables for and I think you are right, it is the biggest jump in quality.
I think the fact that many retro consoles support RGB natively but not Ypbpr, gives RGB a certain retro appeal over component. Like RGB is the original high quality format, and Ypbpr is this "weird imitation" that's like an extension of S-video. On a technical level, RGB is appealing because it's the native format of every CRT, which makes it seem more "pure" and untouched than Ypbpr.
As nice as a pvm is, I feel more satisfied with my consumer set with component, it's bigger anyway (40"). I figure if one wants a sharper image, assure that you have good caps and that the flyback isn't going out, adjust the brightness and you should be good to go. There isn't enough "signal loss" using a transcoder like RGB2COMP to say it looks worse than RGB, they're literally the same in terms of signal quality, but they are coming from a different color space. RGB is going to have a more of a purplish hue on dark colors because of how bright things are, set the bright down and it should look a bit more normal, component doesn't have this issue so you may be able to enjoy a brighter and sharper image at the end of the day.
I just don't see the difference between rgb and component. And I too wanted a pvm, the largest ever. The price was too much and the rgb input on the back wouldn't work, even with the bnc adapters. It'd have to be solely bnc cables but Idk honestly cuz' I didn't test it. It just isn't worth the hassle or the money. I spent less on a D Series that I'm eagerly waiting to be delivered and I'm happy with just component. If it has it, you don't need more done to it. Right?
I've been in Europe for 12 years now (UK), and I have acquired a few CRTs over the years, and as you may know, RGB SCART is abundant here on most CRTs, but my main set for 240p gaming, a KV-EF34M80, has no RGB SCART at all. But it does have YPbPr, and it looks beautiful. This test confirms what I've always suspected, the difference is minimal to barely existent. I use RGB2COMP. You're right about many collectors not playing games and just shelving everything. It's a bit sad, kinda like having a musical instrument that you never play.
Greetings from the USA! It's cool that you're interested in my channel even though I don't cover any UK TVs. I can relate. There is this dude in Australia that covers CRTs that I am never going to see. I still love his channel--RGB Rob.
@@riggel8804 Thank you very much. I'm American though, from Mississippi, but I moved here 12 years ago. The CRTs are similar to what we have back home, except they are PAL and most have RGB SCART support. All the 90s and 2000s CRTs here support 60hz via SCART and many support NTSC composite as well, although I have a couple that do not, but you never have to deal with PAL if you don't want, which is my case. All my consoles are either American or Japanese, except for the HDMI ones, as there's no need to deal with the PAL stuff with them. I had no luck with NTSC RF working on TVs here, that's a different story. My KV-EF34M80 was imported here, it is not a UK set, hence the YPbPr. The people I bought it from brought it here from overseas. Now there's a few consumer CRTs here that are hard to near impossible to find back home, and that would be true analog EDTVs (480p via YPbPr, no 540p/1080i, no processing, no lag, yes, they do exist) but there's only a couple of models from Panasonic and Toshiba and they are rare here too. I have three of the Panasonic EDTVs. As far as I know, they are non-existent in the US. Another type are widescreen CRTs that support 240p, so it properly displays scanlines and all, but in a widescreen. The easiest way to find those here is to look for widescreen curved tubes, as the flat tubes are nearly all 100Hz, so 240p is interpreted as 480i and looks like crap, good for PS2 though, I played Silent Hill 3 in one of them. As for that type, only one set like that was released in the USA. On the other hand, HD CRTs are not as common as they are in the US, and are nearly impossible to find here, as only a couple of sets came out. I have one of them, a Samsung with HDMI input, but it's not very good for gaming.
@@hellbillymods45 It sounds like the EDTVs do 480p natively but not 480i/240p. Is that correct? We have handful of "multiformat" monitors/TVs here in the states that will do 240p up to 1080i natively. Most are pro monitors but there is at least the RCA Proscan that is a consumer multiformat Tv. How is CRT hunting going in your area? There are still TVs were I live in Central Coast California but it's definitely drying up. I think it will be dead by 2023.
@@riggel8804 The Panasonic does 480i very well just like any other analog set, but it's a 100Hz tube and does not interpret 240p correctly, unfortunately. However, it doesn't matter much to me personally about either, as I use it for 480p widescreen content exclusively. I use a Sony CPD-E400 for 480p or 720p in 4:3 and for 480i and 240p widescreen I use a Sony KV-32WS2U, and then for 480i and 240p in 4:3 I alternate between my KV-EF34M80 or PVM-20M2MDE. That was my initial point of getting all of those, one for every situation, although I horded some for a rainy day. Yes, I know about the multiformat monitors, and unfortunately, you can't find those here, I don't think they exist, like the NEC one and all that. Multiformat PVMs and BVMs exist here just the same, usually even the same model numbers, with an E instead of a U at the end. Generic branded CRTs can be found abundantly for very cheap prices. They all have SCART, and the majority support RGB, but not all (some have just composite SCART). You can usually tell by the symbol on the back of the TV, a little screen with three dots is RGB, and one with an arrow is not. Regular 4:3 Trinitrons usually go for a much higher price, but nothing crazy, and plenty of them still left. Widescreen flat Trinitrons (480i only, no 240p) are considerably cheaper, I think that's because there are more recent and more of them survived. Widescreen curved Trinitrons (480i and proper 240p) are older and consequentially, much rarer, although there are other brands. Most of the time, with the widescreen sets here, I found that the flat newer ones don't do 240p, while the older curved ones do just fine, all the ones I have here do anyway. PVMs and BVMs is another story, the pricing is insane and largely prohibitive. I would really like a high TVL set, but man, it's a small fortune. And finding a 20 inch multiformat here at all is a bit tough, from what I experienced, I might have to settle for a 14" and even then, my pocket will get ravaged.
I totally agree, I always thought Component looked better, but all the people saying RGB was better never made sense and fucked with my head, but I know that I'm not the only one now who thinks this, so thank you for your thoughts, it's interesting to say the least, keep up the good work!
Such a great point about setting the monitor for the system. I get different results from pretty much every system I use with my CRTs. We are spoiled today with modern systems being so plug and play.
The geometry is a big one. Every time I switch consoles I have to adjust the geometry a little. The Genesis, in particular, always looks under-scanned compared to other systems.
@@riggel8804 Agreed. Even on my MiSTer you will have different geometry per core. I pulled up Tetris and the top and bottom were cut off the way it needs to be set.
That's just the nature of analog video, most consoles didn't aim for strict broadcast signal levels and timings and it was quite common to output a signal with slightly higher or lower framerate compared to broadcast TV, and if you start looking at arcade boards, they can be even weirder. Just look for one of Kuro's recent posts or interviews about the testing he did on many HDMI to VGA DACs and Analog IO boards used with the MiSTer, it's quite enlightening.
I have a nice crt with component and s-video. I would never bother to use RGB, honestly I just stick to S-video for all my retro consoles. It has that "look" I remember, and it looks 90% as good as component in my opinion. This obsession with pvms and RGB is very new, nobody I ever knew growing up actually playing these games even knew what a pvm was, or bothered with RGB.
Imo the biggest jump in video quality is composite to s video. S video is probably the easiest to hook up as well. But people like to tweak out on things. Myself included. Trying to squeeze every last bit of performance out of a nintendo. Can't wait for the rgb gameboy mod. Haha.
I just picked up a scart to component adapter so I can unplug the composite. I didn't know if RGB and YPbPr were equal or if there would be loss. Thanks for setting the record straight. Subbed.
Many want to be the holders of the ultimate truth. We are always learning new things. I did the same experiment you did On my TV's, the component also looks a little better than RGB. The RGB, had the colors a little darker, a little less brightness and a little less contrast The component had a little more brightness and contrast...The colors a tone or two below RGB... They had a harmony, a better proportion between them, even being weaker than in RGB. I spent a month to make an RGB mod on my TV... After comparing RGB and component on the same tv.... Without any pretense, I found that everything I needed was ready..Without spending money, time, or causing damage to the TV set A colleague said the component looked better...I thought he was lying...After I published my opinion after my test. They said I was crazy and a liar too... Thanks friend. Not for demonstrating that Component is better than RGB, as we know it can vary from tv to tv.. But by showing people that there are options...And that they can actually choose the one that's best for them. A lie told a thousand times will never come true... For a lie will never be true... For men like you, who through work and effort. That the truth always prevails... Congratulations on the wonderful video!!!
Thanks! Going into this test my hunch was that they would look identical to the naked eye but RGB would look slightly better when zoomed in. I'm glad I was wrong and they look identical. Being wrong is often more rewarding than being right.
I've been wanting to do a video on audiophile vs videophile. I'm in both communities. I get that the sense that audiophiles use their gear more than videophiles. They still hoard gear but their are lots of videophiles that never use their gear, also audiophiles will listen to the entire album before they review it where as in the videophile community it's appropriate to review a game without beating it.
I did a video comparison between HD Retrovision vs RGB Scart with setup (didn't do as good comparison side by side like you) but I came up with exactly the same conclusion: Both are about the exact same. Just pick what's best for you setup and go. I started in the RGB scart route, and since I invested in that, it would cost more to switch over if I wanted to. If I had to do it over again I'd be tempted to go component for the flexibility of both upscaler and US CRT's both. Not to mention easier to get good quality component switches. Great topic man. You still recalibrate and fix CRT issues? Future reference lol.
Cool! I see the video on your channel. I will watch it later and get back to you. I agree that the choice between RGB and component should be dictated by convenience rather than quality. RGB is easier to calibrate but component equipment is less prone to interference and is far cheaper.
Excellent video and I couldn't agree more! Everyone talks about how great RGB is and then fail to include that Component is just as good. I have been tracking down a CRT that I can attempt to mod primarily just to see if I'm able to do it on a previously undocumented model. I wouldn't attempt such a thing on a Component capable device though after doing some research. I still think that RGB SCART cables are a reasonable investment because they are easy to convert to component with a SCART to Component box without adding significant lag in most instances. If you are considering doing an RGB mod, see if you can find a component CRT and spend the money on a SCART to Component converter instead. The time saved and decrease in potential for error is priceless.
I couldn't have explained it myself better. YPbPr (Component Image) is VERY GOOD in terms of price vs quality. I'm a happy owner of a SCART to YPbPr transcoder connected to my Philips 29"TV. I even have a VGA (15Khz) to YPbPr (Component) transcoder and that saves you the trouble to look for a male SCART connector, you just need a male VGA connector and a 3RCA cable and you're ready to play in a CRT TV with 99.9% quality of a RGBS signal. Hugs from Chile 🇨🇱 (currently in late fall in late May, getting too cold here)
To me there is no "better", they are different, one is used for computer graphics back in the day (RGB) and the other is used for vídeo content (Component). Also, without RGB there is no component, so, component it's a conversion from RGB and also RGB requires more bandwidth than component to transport the exact same signal. You can't perceive the conversion losses in component but is there, whenever I can, I always choose RGB first but again, there is no "better".
The grass is always greener on the other side. UK wants Component, and North America wants RGB.. I’m Canadian and I use a Retrotek VGA to Component transcoder. No point in messing with RGB Modding just to be trendy and make it way more difficult than it needs to be.
I use a VGA to component transcoder as well but it usually out of stock. Do you have a link to the one you use? Yea it's funny, I have talked to guys from the UK. They say Component gets the Paul Bunyan treatment over there.
It transcodes everything from native resolutions to super resolutions with no input delay. I’ve had mine powered on for like 2 years now. It runs nice and cool and gives a beautiful picture. Highly recommend this. Great product and great customer service.
@@VAMPIREMACHIINE Thanks again for doing the CRTEmudriver Fitghtcade video. I use that every day. If you ever play Super Turbo send me a challenge. I'm Riggel1983 on fightcade.
Made some really good points in this video about the hype of RGB over component. Love your vids man! I also love your channel for the fact that you show users how to calibrate their pro-sumer TV's. I'm going to try to work on some more color balancing today using your white/black balancing videos.
@@riggel8804 I got pretty far with doing some various cuts initially mostly with the blue and green guns, but I'm still fighting a bit of some scenes appearing quite dark in darker scenes and a little bit of red push (if I'm identifying that right, basically red running little hot like on Sonic's shoes for example). I had read somewhere to turn the AXIS setting down to zero which I initially had, but I put back up to around 8 last night as I thought that setting could be a part of my darkness issue. This is a 24 inch FV300 by the way for reference. I think I need to learn more about calibrating the low end of the spectrum with calibrating drive and so forth, but I'm definitely not an expert. Please let me know if you have any ideas.
I think it's also down to the fact that people may have heard that YUV/YPbPr gets transcoded internally in the monitor/tv to RGB before it's displayed. So doing that old system RGB -> YUV -> RGB in the tv may "degrade" the signal. In reality it's probably not true. Also since some transcoder boxes are more expensive or "better" than others, it leads you to believe that why bother trying to find the best when you can just RGB mod. Personally I wouldn't go through the hassle to RGB a low line count consumer tv. The cleanest image for cheap is finding an old pc VGA monitor anyhow. Plus scanlines with something like a mister. But yes, I'm sure there's people who RGB mod because it's cheap and easy for them over buying an expensive transcoder or various retrovision cables, however much they cost.
Great video! I’ve always thought RGB and component where displaying the same info to the screen but they arrived there through different means. This video confirms my suspicions. I used to have a PVM but it died. I located a Sony HD CRT and it works great via component. I was wondering if you think I need an upscaler of some kind or if the HD CRT will automatically upscale? Thanks!!
The built in upscalers on the hd crts are really bad. They have terrible input lag and no scanlines. I would look into getting a osc or a retrotink 5x unless you don't care about scanlines and input lag. Even then I think you need to disable the CRT's built in upscaler in the service menu and feed the TV it's native resolution. But I am not sure. Most of the HD CRTs have a weird native res of something like 540p. You could always dump it and get a SD CRT but I know they are getting harder to find.
First: I love your videos on CRTs you really know what your talking about. Second: At the end of the video you talk about the prestige of Scart modded CRTs and I just want to mention that a lot of people don’t realize that component is just as good. When I started getting CRTs recently I just thought scart was the best Since that’s what everyone was using with upscalers. Love the vids, can’t wait to open the back of my crt for some calibration, and thanks for opening my eyes to component.
You're welcome. I wish someone would of told me about component a long time ago. I'm glad I could help. Thanks for the encouragement. I really appreciate it.
Huge difference. Component looks better here to me. With that being said you're not wrong about setup making a difference and then the tube regardless of chassis. I have a stunning trinitron but I still prefer my Panasonic Quintrix. It's far nicer to use for long periods of time. I've actually started to prefer shadowmask over aperture grille by a long shot too. After a couple of years of CRtr collecting and repair I can safely say based on my experience that Trinitrons are crazy overrated and so is RGB (if component is an option)
I've got some stereos that are exhausting to listen to for long periods but I have never noticed my Trinitrons getting exhausting after long periods. That's interesting.
@@jrudymorganclark2072 never heard of it. Might as well rgb mod it at that point. You could rgb mod it and get a component transcoder. I think this is what native component tvs basically do. They just have a built in transcoder.
I'm still kicking myself because when I used to have a working Wega set that supported 480p, I could have picked up this YPbPr converter and just ordered scart cables to all my consoles. Even when the tv died, I still had a way to run video up to my vga monitor.
I just started getting into CRTs, I think they're really cool. I like them a lot also because I've been wanting to get into speed running Super Metroid. I also just like things of high quality. I knew that Component was good but not THAT good. Do you happen to sell any monitors anymore? I'd be interested in buying.
I just sold the last CRT I was interested in selling. Just keep looking around for anything with component, Sony , Sharp, JVC Toshiba all make good stuff. You can still find stuff. Good luck. One of the main attractions for me and CRTs is that they are high quality but not appreciated. Most people I picked up my CRTs from were amused that I was interested in them at all. You have to spend a lot of money to get a comparable experience from an LCD or OLED.
I have a Sony KV-27S40, the same family CRT that we've kept around since 1998. That set is composite only from factory, and instead of searching around for another consumer set that supports component, I decided to take what I already have and get it modded for both S-Video and RGB. I think that's the best use case of RGB modding CRTs, is if it comes with only Composite video from factory. If it already comes with at least S-Video, then you only get diminishing returns from there.
I don't even think the collector attitude is a problem, I do think it's cool to own rare things! The problem is when the collector's start getting stuck up and thinking that there's really more reasons to their collecting beyond just wanting to have something. I think it would be cool to get a PVM just because they look sick and are cool. But to be honest I would probably just keep using my consumer set cause it's much more accurate to what people would have been playing on when retro consoles were actually around... but yeah. Great video. I love when people actually ask critical questions instead of just being swept up in the opinions of their peers.
How does the Extron switch handle audio? I want to output to 3 devices; PVM, Toshiba AF, and retrotink 5x for my Plasma. About 8-9 consoles. I have 2 scart cables but I don’t mind starting from scratch with the component cable setup how you did. I just want to make sure about the audio. Thanks for all your work!!
I'm not sure. I don't use the audio on my switcher. It has "Phoenix " connectors on the back for audio but it sounds like you just buy the connectors and crimp them onto your audio wire. I've heard good things about the audio on the extron switchers.
Great video! I’m curious how component looks compared to s-video. I’m pretty much a novice. Got my systems hooked up through s-video on my flat Trinitron.
In my experience s video is really close to component video. There is a noticeable difference but it's not as noticeable as going from composite to s video.
@@DadRacer If your happy with it I would say don't bother. What you could do is next time you get a new system try hooking it up with component instead of buying s video cables. The MiSTer for example will output component right out of the box, so will the PS2.
11:58 I wholeheartedly agree with you that most people seek RGB for the prestige, it's a checkbox they have to tick in order to feel good. YPbPr can output HD content just fine, the only issue I find with it is that some TVs are more picky* about YPbPr signals than with S-Video or composite, not sure if any such TV would do any better with RGB, though. And it's worth pointing out some devices will output "bad" stuff over RGB as well, it's no panacea. I've seen mentions of the Dreamcast outputting dangerously high signal levels on RGB and the non-linear output of the SNES. And a final interesting point: S-Video is way too underrated. Sure, it won't do HD like YPbPr, but with SD content it's nearly flawless, you can send a nasty multiburst or zone plate test signal over S-Video and see absolutely no luma/chroma interference like you'd get on composite. * mostly modern TVs, some of those will do some ridiculously weird stuff with analog inputs
RetroRGB went over this with his sync on green post and he showed the comparison that RGB provides a better image. I'm curious if he did any of the same readjusting as you did?
I don't know about his sync on green post but I saw a video that RetroRGB did where he compares RGB and component with a BVM and a RGB modded consumer CRT. He doesn't do it right. You can see in his comparison that the brightness and contrast are up way too high on his component recordings.
he does that in purporse just to sell more products where he get comissions… everything changes when u realize is all about money (as always) so thanks for the video
@@gabnrami Maybe he'll have to do one of those videos where he denounces YPbPr as an inferior format and proves his point to keep said promotion? That would however just start a retro format war amongst the 'Purists' and the alternative (Could see PackAPunch cables being impacted by this somehow)
For my setup, I could use RGB but I already invested in Component thinking I'd never find a pro monitor with RGB. Fast forward a few years later, I now have a few PVMs but still run component because it's easier to switch out with a consumer set and the signal is hard to find any meaningful difference. I've run both signals through my Retrotink and can't spot the difference.
Love the component input on my jvc. It’s hard to dial the colors right for some reason, but the sharpness and color depth is all there. With hd Retrovision cables in 2021, there is no point to deal with scart or rgb imo. I’m all in on component
Iv'e noticed color issues with several of the JVCs I've had. For some reason it bothers me less on the JVSs than on my Sonys. Partly because I don't watch movies on my JVCs. I think color accuracy is more important for movies than it is for 24op games.
I think what you're saying is generally on point, but I would have liked to see this done with different sources - I generally hear people say the PS2 has a vastly less distinct RGB signal compared to most older consoles, and the X Collection isn't without its own fingerprinting on the original graphics. Have you done this sort of comparison using a more neutral setup and arrived at the same results?
Not sure what you mean by, " neutral" or " distinct rgb signal". Do you think the ps2 natively outputs better component compared to rgb? I doubt that. I tried to make this comparison as unbiased as possible. I use the same monitor, the same console, the same av cable and the same room lighting during the comparison. I use a ps2 because it's the only console I have that outputs rgb and component. I used to have two setups in my room. One was rgb to mt bvm and the other was component to my consumer crt. After hundreds of hours of gaming on both setups I noticed that the rgb signal looked just as clean as the component. I later switched my bvm setup to component (so all my equipment was component) and I saw no loss in quality. Sounds like you think rgb is better. It would be cool if you made a video demonstrating this. I would like to see it. I've seen two other videos, one by retro rgb and one by phonedork where they compare rgb to component and they come to the conclusion that rgb is better. Those videos are wrong because they didn't calibrate their monitors after switching from rgb to component. Component always looks washed out after switching from a rgb source that's calibrated and rgb always looks garish after switching from a component source that's calibrated. Those knobs on the front of your pvm are there for a reason. You need to calibrate the image when switching signal.
@@riggel8804 I don't personally have a horse in this race, I'm not at a place where I can afford a pro monitor or an RGB setup right now. I just find it interesting to learn about in case I ever decide to pursue it. From the folks I know who do have those setups, the consensus has been that the PS2's component is pretty much on par with its RGB output, and this matches the results My Life in Gaming put up in their PS2 breakdown. Comparatively, samples from places like MLiG comparing RGB and component signals on other consoles tend to show a greater difference in sharpness, even after calibration. Is it significantly better? Not necessarily, you hit diminishing returns pretty fast as you go up the ladder. But I do think there is a difference in results at least in some circumstances, and that it's a bit too broad to suggest based on this single case study that RGB as a format produces identical results.
@@TheLimboOfTheLost The purpose of my video is to convince retro gamers that component video produces identical results to rgb and I think it does that. It's really aimed towards people like you that haven't committed to one or the other yet. You would be a lot better off picking up a consumer grade 27 inch Trinitron with component video and a transcoder over purchasing a 14 inch rgb monitor. The former is going to cost less money and be more enjoyable due to the larger screen.
If you do notice a difference, it's likely not because of a difference between the two signal types, and more likely related to there being more interference on one cable vs. the other, or something else like that. Like the guy in the video said, it's more to do with "setup" than with inherent differences between the signals. I never see anybody complaining about the quality difference of one signal vs. the other. Either one is very good and much better than the signals used by S-video or Composite video, or even worse, RF/coax. A lot of people actually confuse the two and don't realize that they're different, in part because "RGB modded" consoles often still end up having component video cables used with them, and don't realize that circuitry in the cable itself is actually converting the signal from RGB to YPbPr.
Information like this should be shared more out there. RGB and YPbPr are pretty much identical, it's a clean signal, but in my opinion YPbPr is easier to handle, has no sync issues, only 3 cables, etc. As you said it's mostly a collectors mind set going for RGB. I'm curious you mentioned finding different brightness levels between RGB and YPbPr on your PVM. Have you tried adjusting Sub-Contrast, Sub-Brightness, Sub-everything on the service menu YPBPr section of your PVM? My PVM was adjusted with very saturated levels for YPbPr and YC, I'm not sure if they were using it with weak signal equipment or just liked the saturated look. After I adjusted sub levels to the front panel's knob neutral positions everything is perfect for RGB and component
I haven't adjusted those levels on that pvm however I have noticed on multiple crts that switching from rgb to ypbpr increases the brightness. I just use the brightness and contrast knobs on the front to compensate.
@@nomprenom440 don't know. Cheap dollar store cables seem to work fine for component. Rgb cables need more shielding or you will get artifact on screen. Usually looks like wavy white lines
Thank you for calling out the collector that's all about "yea...I've got that, got it for cheap too" vs "I got ____, and actually used/played/enjoyed it"
A lot of people don't care that much about fine tuning video signals and I can dig that. There is something appealing about grabbing a free crt off the curb, plugging in composite and calling it good. There is this cool channel on UA-cam called Battletoad overload where a guy does that.
Incredible job filming this! LUMIX GH5? I completely agree with you though, component is super underrated in the retro gaming scene. I prefer it for convenience’s sake alone so I can swap it into my consumer sets. We’ve got to get back to making playing games the main thing.
There are scenes where playing games is the main focus and I have been gravitating towards them in the last few years. I'm talking about the FGC and STG, fighting games and shmups. I use an old ass iphone 5 for filming. It works better than most expensive cameras. You Can't do better for 200 bucks.
I modded for RGB for a few reasons. First it’s simpler to get all your classic systems all into scart, half of them support it natively. Second it was a fun challenge, then get to go through and do the nesrgb mod etc, as a hobby it’s been fun. So now I have most my stuff on a scart switch and a coupe on component on a nice looking TV. Maybe a transcoded would be simpler.. but but you still have to get rgb cables and mod consoles
Yeah you definitely need RGB cables and your consoles outpututing RGB if you are going to use RGB or component on your tv. But that's besides the point. The question remains, what are you going to plug all that shit into? RGB or component? For most people it's far cheaper and easier to get a transcoder. That's cool you like modding stuff. I thought it would be cool to mod this old trini I had that only had s video but I never got around to it. Too many games to play.
i think the reason people think of rgb better is that it doesnt have to translate ypbpr to rgb to the red green and blue electron guns in the tube but i have two pro monitors and in my case its just less of a hassle to go component instead of rgb
I'm picking up a modded RGB Trinitron soon. Growing up with just RF and composite, I want to see what RGB is like. That, plus a lot of the CRTs being sold where I live that are of the component variety also happen to be 100Hz ones and not good for 240p gaming. You make a good point though needlessly modding a perfectly good component CRT though. Despite being informative, the people of the CRT gaming subreddit scare me. I really do wonder if they actually do anything with all of the consumer CRTs, PVMs and BVMs they've amassed for themselves. As for myself, once I lay my hands on this Trinitron, that'll be it for me. Rather than obsess over the minutia, I'll be gaming.
@@riggel8804 Well, I plan to use it with a MiSTer (which I am still waiting for). I think I will start with Alladin for the Sega Megadrive because I never finished it as a kid. My father did though (with one hand as well!). After that, probably some stuff from the NES, because I never had one. I want to play everything from the 8-bit and 16-bit eras!
@@johnhammond7579 When I got back into gaming I beat all the games that kicked my ass as a kid. I felt like the Karate Kid learning martial arts and taking revenge on all the bullies.
I fell for the RGB hype cult myself, I bought a TV many years ago that was RGB modded just to experience this coveted connector, the TV also had component, and when I went and tested both inputs I discovered that not only component looked identical but to my eyes it even looked slightly better, and I paid quite a lot for the TV. It truly was a waste of money just like it's a waste to RGB mod a TV that already has Component. Although I totally understand doing it to a set from the 90s or 80s that only has composite or even worse RF only, in that case it truly is an improvement even if you don't do a great job with the mod, nowadays I've done it myself to those curved early 90s/late 80s TVs and it's very worth it.
Thanks for sharing your pov. There are a lot of excellent 90s sony crts out there with no component. I bet they look great with an rgb mod. What do you think about modding a lower quality tube for rgb? I had a low quality tube with component before and i thought it looked better with COMPOSITE. the component video was too sharp and there was a "screen door pattern " on the tube. Basically the vertical black lines were as prominent as the scanlines. Not a good look imo.
@@riggel8804 You're right not all tubes are created equal, personally I had great success with all Sonys I've tried but they were the gold standard back then although I do try to collect good ones, but it's no wonder they look so great with RGB when a lot of the same models already had RGB in their Japanese and European variants via their RGBS/SCART connectors, while the NTSC variants were downgraded with Composite/RF only, they were already made with RGB in mind is just that us in the Americas didn't know about it. I actually did mod a non Sony TV once and it didn't look good, it's a Samsung TV from the mid 90s, back when they were still considered an El-Cheapo brand. I ended up going back to Composite with it as something didn't look right when using RGB and no matter what kind of adjustments I made even in the service menu it never looked good, maybe it really is the tube that is low quality and the RGB just makes all its defects more obvious, explains why even Component would probably look bad on a set like that too if it had it, I guess they were never meant to be used like that, I still have it around as is 36 inches and best of all it has under 100 hours of use, it belonged to an elderly lady that passed away not long after she bought the TV and it just sat there on a pretty clean room for over 20 years unused, it's basically my backup and last resort if something were to happen to all my high-end Sonys, the tube itself while not as high quality as a Sony is not horrible by any means, and is super fresh and is a sight to behold, especially when gaming, the colors really pop, the contrast is on point, and the geometry is perfect, stuff that you can only get with an almost brand new tube, it beats any old tired tube out of the water even if RGB doesn't look good. Man if only we could still get new Sony ones sigh.
Nope. My Sega doesn't output s vid and I don't have my MiSTer setup to output s vid... I got an early model SNES with s vid cables. I remember the S video being very similar to RGB on it but that model has crap RGB.
All CRT monitors display in RGB. The monitor converts Composite, S-video, and Component into RGB. A native RGB signal going straight to the monitor is technically better because it’s not processed (RGB in and RGB out). Component vídeo on the other hand is a processed signal, but because the signal is similar to RGB their difference is minimal. In practice, I prefer Component video just because you can further tweak the image by adjusting the aperture and chroma on your monitor settings. After tweaking the monitor settings, I can make Component video look even better than RGB.
Technically the component should be worse since the original image is converted from RGB to YPbPr luma+chroma and then back to RGB. However with good convertors, cables, and the resolution being only 240p, the difference would practically be zero.
Great video. I recently sold a nice component Trinitron because it was too large for me and instead am using my basic 13" CRT I found off the street. It looks fantastic, has great geometry and is a much more manageable size. I'm interested in doing the RGB mod because it's composite only and I think that's the only valid reason to do this RGB mod. It's a lot easier to find a composite CRT in the US than one with component, especially small TVs. But even if I don't do the mod, my tv still looks pretty great.
@@Matt_Sorensen some tvs look wack imo with an rgb mod. If its an inferior tube you get a screen door pattern when you feed it a clean signal like rgb or component. Inferior tubes look better with composite imo. However if your tube is good i.e. Sony then it will look good in rgb. Smaller tubes don't suffer from screen dooring in general so your probably fine.
@@Matt_Sorensen depends on the mod. Some disable composite but some leave it intact. You're probably fine since the tv is 13 inches. Even if it screen doors you probably won't notice it. What type of tv is it?
@@riggel8804 I'd probably do the mod with a switch to turn on the RGB input if possible. The tv is an Apex AT1308, silver budget CRT but actually the picture and geometry is really nice.
@@Matt_Sorensen never heard of that tv. some of the "budget tvs" have really good tubes in them. Main thing is that you like it. If you can put in a toggle switch you don't have anything to lose...unless you fuck up the mod.
The composite is plugged in with a third party cord. The same cord I used for rgb and component in this video. The monitor in this video has the comb filter enabled. This cleans up the composite signal. No converters. No mods.
Most of the retro consoles support RGB nativity or through modifications such as SEGA Genesis and SNES. As for PC-E, it seems only has RGB modifications. Could that be a factor to consider when choosing RGB or component?
@@linxeen135 if you live in an area with lots of rgb tvs by all means get an rgb tv. Here in the usa rgb tvs are rare and component tvs with a transcoder is a better option
@@riggel8804Most of my TVs only have S video and composite hence I mainly use PVM for gaming. Thanks for this great video which gives another perspective for me to reflect. Is RGB the best and only option? I'm now ordering some component cables to try them out.
In North America we got shafted when it came to image quality for our video games. In the 90s game systems were shipping with crappy RF adapters, and unless you had a more recent TV, that might have been the only way you could even hook your games up to a TV set from the 70s or 80s. We were trained to accept garbage, and now people want redemption. They want what everyone else already had. I still struggle to understand why we were given these lower standards of image input/output. This is 'Murica, but we didn't care how crappy our TVs image quality looked until HDTV became suddenly relevant one day.
Component is slightly better than RGB. It also eliminates the need for an external sync cable due to it syncing on green. That's the main reason it became the standard on consumer products before HDMI.
With decent signal quality, there's virtually no practical difference. If your goal is to actually play and enjoy games, there is zero reason to choose RGB/SCART over component. Honestly, if I'm sitting 8 feet away from my CRT, it's hard to tell the difference between s-video, YPbPr, and RGB SCART. The huge jump happens between composite video and s-video. Having that separate channel for luma brings the clarity and the rest is about color. Even still, when sitting a few feet back, a lot of the composite and RF artifacts become much less noticeable. I absolutely agree with going for whatever your highest quality option is, but people with component, or even composite only, TVs should feel zero shame. Jump on some damn turtles and have fun. Mario and Sonic don't care what port is feeding them into the TV.
i use the same cables for rgb and component in this video I show the cable early on. its got rca jacks on the end....dont get hung up on cables. shits overblown.
I’ve found, in most cases, that Component actually looks better than RGB. RGB can appear too bright and actually wash out colors in the process. Component keeps the bright colors vibrant while keeping the dark tones nice and warm. Its hard to compare the two, but Component definitely can be arguably a lot easier to pull off in a retro setup 😂
From a technical point of view, Component has reduced bandwidth on the (chroma) Pb and Pr channels compared to the (luma) Y channel. RGB cannot do that - all three channels always have to be equal in bandwidth. This means the horizontal chroma resolution is slightly compromised for Component. For all practical applications, this difference is pretty much invisible, especially to the untrained eye. You can just about see it however in the very first extreme close up (0:00). Look at Megaman's red ear. The red slightly loses it's saturation towards (in this case) the left end because of the chroma subsampling inherent in Component. But I bet nobody would have noticed if I didn't spoil it. You should pick what works better for you with the equipment you have. In reality there are lots of other factors, most notably how a TV or monitor processes both signals, and that has way more impact than the technical fact that RGB has no chroma subsampling.
@@riggel8804 Most of the time it's caused by the frequency of the color modulation in the Composite video signal that leaks into the RGB lines with long cables and weak shielding. As you probably know, RGB needs a separate sync signal as there is no sync in either the R, B or G channel (there also exits sync-on-green, but it's badly supported). Most of the time this sync signal is, unfortunately, regular Composite video of which the TV or monitor only extracts the sync pulses and discards everything else. It also leaks into the audio channels if they are close by or in the same cable, like with Scart. You may have heard it before, it's a buzzing sound and it gets louder the brighter the image. It's most obvious when there is no sound played. A good example is the Konami logo with white background displayed at the start of some games. Component video's Y channel is a simple Video Baseband Signal without any color (same as black and white TV was), or in other words, it's like Composite but without any color modulation. This is a lot less prone to leak into other channels. This is also the reason there exist special "Sync-on-Luma" RGB-Scart cables for some consoles (PS1/PS2 for example). These cables pick the Luma (Y) signal instead of Composite for use with RGB to use as the sync signal. This is only possible with consoles that output Y (for use in S-Video) along with RGB.
I can't believe we still have this debate. On a PVM there will be hardly to no perceivable difference between component and rgb. On a consumer set it depends on how the component input/processing is implemented. If it is done poorly it will look worse than running RGB via a mod/bypass. If it is well implemented it will look almost identical. At the end of the day it isnt the type of connection its more to do with the TV itself.
I think as RGB is a raw format with the red, green and blue, prism split images, being captured by 3 separate sensors in cameras and PVM's as well as BVM's being the superior types of CRT displays, that most people think that its the best signal, as the best CRT displays generally use that format. Component YPbPr having the Y luma signal (luminance and sync), the Pb (differential between blue and luma) and Pr (differential between red and luma) only sends two color signals as the green color can be derived from the Pb and Pr signals. This probably leads them to think it is inferior. Having an extra signal for green (Pr) would be redundant. It is because of intelegent engineering that component video, which is derived from RGB, that it can deliver such an image with fewer cables. They say that its almost identical... I would argue whether or not people can tell the difference, as you have shown in your video they look the same. I don't think most of these people doing RGB mods on component ready CRT's, have ever sat down and compared the same images from RGB and YPbPr on the same display. Yes many of these people are doing it because they think its cool or for the prestige of having something rare. When you make a video like this I'm sure it will be like rain on their parade, or they will ignore you because they can no longer argue with you. Thanks for making these videos.
I'm guessing this video will be ignored by the collector types. From how I see it now, there is not much communication between the collecting scene and the "hardcore" gaming scene ( I hate the term hardcore but I don't know what else to call it). I wish it wasn't this way. I would like to be more welcoming towards collectors and I wish collectors would be more open to correction from the hardcore scene.
I can't speak for everyone, but most older consoles support RGB and not component video, and modding the TV itself for RGB (if possible) would be a lot cheaper than buying a converter. I still haven't gotten around to it, though..my main TV needs a recap before it would need anything like an RGB mod. BTW, not sure if you mentioned this, but I think another couple of reasons people dislike component: People commonly get it mixed up with "composite" video because it starts with the same five letters. People think it's bad because of all the negative press it received during Hollywood's campaign to replace it with HDMI.
I've got a video where I talk about RGB mod vs transcoder. I think it's called, "how to get rgb into your North American consumer TV". I disagree. I think most people are better off with a transcoder but RGB mods are cool too.
Depends on one's definition of "expensive". I personally can't justify spending over $100 on one device, just so I can have a prettier picture if I want to plug my PC into an old TV. And most of them are no longer in production. I did just find an RGB->composite converter for under $50 the other night, though. It's out of production, but one site still has a few in stock.
Nowadays with cheap (19 USD to 27 USD) RGBS+SCART to YPbPr you can enhoy a 99% like image on a cheap old CRT TV with the advantage that there are tons of 21", 25", 29", 34" consumer grade TV's with YPbPr (Component) input. I'd absolutely recommend this to many people in the US, Canada, And Latin America that cannot afford importing am european CRT TV with SCART input (we're talking about shipping of at least 45lbs for 21"TVs and 100lbs for 29"TVs). Greets for all retrogames lovers and in greater part to purists that want to play retro consoles and arcade games (through MAME) with an almost flawless video quality. Hugs from Chile 🇨🇱, South America (currently in late fall...getting colder...)
Greetings! Yeah it's getting warmer up here in California. It's cool to here from different parts of the world and how they are gaming. Here in the USA a lot of gamers want RGB. Typically they purchase an professional video monitor instead of importing a crt from Europe. Problem with that is that Professional crts are expensive and there typically really small.. I play a lot of arcade games. I use fbneo instead of mame because fbneo allows me to use runahead latency reduction but mame is cool too.
I saw a video of a guy looking for an appropiate consumer CRT for RGB mod and he got a TV with component inputs and threw it away because it had the microcontroller and jungle in the same chip or something so it would not be easy to RGB mod it. I thought it was ludicrous. Component cables are easy to find and many consoles do have native component output.
I totally agree. I wish there was more awareness out there about component video. That's one of the reasons I made this video. I have another video titled something like, "How to get RGB into USA consumer CRTs". At the end of that video I go into the culture around rgb and component.
Well this does it for me!! Got 3 flat Trinis all with component but, wanted to find a curved Trini with component which either doesn't exist or a unicorn. I'm more into arcade emulation so I use a vga to component transcoder and crt emudriver for the 240p pc. My other pc Is just has dvi-i out to vga adapter going to a vga trisync arcade monitor for 480p gaming. I guess no need to mod tv's or anything else which is good news. Thanks for the comparison bro!!
You're welcome. I think you will like next month's video. I compare all the best consumer grade tvs. There is a curved glass sony with component in there.
good points. i been collecting not playing. but its me buying my old consoles and everdrives so i did it quick.had retropies but latency and inaccuracies and poor performance sometimes. waiting on 2 scarts and final cart. learned how composite is useful regarding some genesis games so i keep composites. haven't seen rgb in rlf so i am eager. but true, no component fanboyism like rgb. yet i seen one guy change sides like a cult. selling all rgb hardware and maybe unmodding (i personally dont mod for rgb but i think its fine. ) to go component. why not just keep stuff and convert/transcode or get other cables? interesting too see how they are the same or nearly the same. I think developers had different screens that varied and considered different cables, i prefer options not sides.
Yeah there is that dihthering thing with composite. There is a option with the MiSTer Genesis core that allows you to have dihthering with component/RGB. Best of both worlds.
Im still partial about doing an RGB mod. I mean if only my tv had something better than composite, i'd stop there. Problem is, 90% of the tv's in my country are composite, which honestly by all means it looks good already. The JVC N series i have from 2003 seems to have exceptional comb filter that makes composite viable. Biggest problem is i only wanna use a PC for everything. Any VGA to composite converter seems to introduce palpable lag around 30ms and that's too much. Welp i hope i dont break anything in the tv or zap myself.
I hate how rgb removes some of the softnesses and color blending We can never get a perfect look. U ether get a sharpe image with. A harsh look Or a fuzzy image with. A nice soft look with blended colors
I can only speak by myself, I have a way to emulate games on my pc, I don't care about rgb, I use a rgb to component transcorder and that's it, for this purpose I have a big sony crt tv. if i want someting portable i will often use a game console through composite on a tiny composite tv, I was lucky and got tiny ikegami who does the job, my toshiba 10' tv doe's it as well, it depends if i will play alone or with my wife.for the games, the console is the priority (if you want(care about) the real thing), and now we are lucky to have multicarts so if I have one I can play most with one cartridge that's it, but as you said I use the things I purchase and it's often not to exhibit to others.For old pc games I have the hardware for that and I have a crt vga monitor and that's it still use it for work on a regular basis and it's fine.(note: ereryone will have a way or preference to play in whatever mode they fell they like, if it looks good enough for the person who make it's purchase with their own money then its fine)
you got that CRTemudriver? You remind me of this dude on youtube that plays Battletoads on as many CRTs as possible. He doesn't care about RGB or composite. He just wants to play Battletoads. I respect that.
@@riggel8804 yeah i have, I use crt emudriver on a ati radeon hd 4550 and works fine ps1 through retroarch it's the limit of this card, on mame 3d games most works fine the only problematic are tekken 3 and soul calibur, the workaround is rise the processor speeds on mame in the settings, 2d are perfecty fine no issues.for arcade I use advmenu with mame and a arcade stick.
@@riggel8804 BTW there is a Brazilian channel who posted some free arcade packs with the system included using advmenu for free Clandoordie, if you are intrested. Then the configuration and installation of the crt emudriver will be by yourself but, is not that dificult, the thing is that you can use like i did a dell optiplex 780 on the cheap and build one yourself, you will need and transcoder form the rgb form vga/dvi to component, I guess you have one since you used to use a pc on the crts.
curious why you use hd retrovision for the ps2? It's got native component output. That's cool you can turn down vsm in the service menu. That's the only thing I found wrong with the x flat (the edge enhancement). I wish I would have known how to do that when I did my video on the xfalt.
@@riggel8804 Oh, it’s the only component cable I have at the moment. I used it for a EDTV and HDTV I had lying around. Is there a reason to use the native component? Will it look better? Sorry I’m new to all this! Yeah it’s a good set and I even got my hands on an original remote. The service manual is online (thankfully) and I have been tweaking settings conservatively here and there. It’ll never be 100% but it’s getting there haha
@@disbeatcontinues I don't shoot for perfection personally. I just try and improve things. The HD retrovision cables are fine. They do have to calibrate the image when converting from rgb but I heard they do a really good job at it and they are console specific. If I had them lying around I would probably use them but if you are looking to buy cables I would just get ps2 component cables and tell the ps2 to output component in the settings. Unless I am missing something....Do you're ps2 hd retrovision cables convert rgb to comp or are they straight component cables?
Damn dude, great job but how could you not use OEM/HDRetrovision component cables?? Makes me wonder about your RGB cable quality too. Either way, great job. Once I get better at adjusting white balance I’d love to recreate this comparison. Gotta watch your white balance video a few more times. Always have trouble trusting a reference monitor’s white level to adjust towards.
I wanted to use the same cable for both signals. I think this is the best way to control for the cable variable. If there is a flaw with the cable it will be shared across both signals. The OEM cable will do component but it won't do RGB. The HD retrovision cable will do component but not RGB. You can use an lcd monitor as reference for adjusting white balance. Most LCD monitors have excellent white balance.
@@riggel8804 whoa yeah man the same principle you pointed out about having to calibrate differently for each signal; the same applies to well made cables. RGB and component cables, good ones, are attenuated within the cable. That’s a variable I’d really consider researching. I also have a recapped OEV203 so I’ll definitely be recreating this with HD retrovision and retro access scart cables. I’m going to try the white level adjustment soon! Thanks!
I've been bothered about this because people mod their tvs and consoles hoping to get that better image quality and it's debatable whether we had it this whole time already. There's enough posts making YUV look terrible by comparison, but not enough to show that it could be fixed and improved upon. Also nobody is debating YUV 4:4:4 as the color output and how it gets paired with 4:2:2, 4:2:0, which is something we wanna avoid.
I was dissapointed with the rgb vs component videos out there. That's why I made this video. What's all that stuff about 4;4;4 and 4;2;2? I am not familiar with those ratios.
@@riggel8804 That's something to do with the color space and 4:4:4 is as pure as it gets. Both for RGB and YUV values. 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 are lesser values and don't offer quite as much colour detail. There's other terms that go with YUV as well. YPbPr = Analog YUV YCbCr = Digital YUV
As an owner of a ‘96 Sony Trinitron (RGB modded, but pre-component) and a ‘03 Toshiba with component I will say that there is literally no reason to mod a component TV. Any signal processing/noise of component is minuscule and/or microseconds.
@@riggel8804 Well, I use them both with MiSTer FPGA and that system seems to crank up the brights & colors. So, I’ve had to dial back the brights & contrast a bit. I can tell you that the curved-screen 27” Sony crt has better, overall geometry to the flat-tube 27”Toshiba. The flat-tube has a slight pinch in the middle that I see on virtually all flat-tubes over 20”. I have a flat-tube 14” Advent that has no pinch, but it might just be the smaller size. The little Advent actually has an amazing picture, but it is the youngest with a 2005 date tube and probably got the least amount of use with its original owner.
@@MrArkBrian cool thanks for the feedback. I think a lot of the talk about curved screen sonys having a dimmer image can be credited to the fact that they are just old, worn out, tired tubes.
I agree, I specially like how the plant looks on composite but X (Mega Man) is too blurry, you can't even see his mouth, it destroys too much detail, I think S-Video is a better middle ground between a softer look without destroying so much detail.
@@AJ-po6up unfortunately my tv has either component or composite. My other crt has only composite. Most people would agree with you. Svideo is the best. Component should only be used on 480i games like ps2 or on lcd tv.
I've RGB modded like 6 TVs at this point, granted they all were curved Sonys that maxed out with S Video. RGB looks way better then the S Video, been trying to film a comparison but it's so hard to get a good video of the TV
Those are great tvs to RGB mod. Sony was at the top of there game back then. They had some really good tubes. Have you ever noticed if the curved Sony tubes are dimmer than the flatscreens? I have heard people remark on this. I have noticed that my xbr48 is dimmer than any of my flatscreens but I am not sure if this is just normal aging.
@@riggel8804 I got a xbr200 to compare too, hard to say about brightness. They both can get way brighter then needed. I also recap them when I convert them so that may help with brightness
I love that I clicked on the video and was immediately just shown the comparison lol.
I think the sense of rarity/prestige for RGB comes from the fact that Europe and Japan (in the form of JP21) got this way before we had anything close here in the states. We want what we can’t (or couldn’t) have! Coupled with the fact that our component video just wasn’t all that sexy or well marketed when it did finally go mainstream leaves RGB with mystique and an aura of superiority. It’s really six of one, half a dozen of another. If you can get your retro console to display either properly - you win…
thats what drew me in. your right
there is a lot of misinformation from retrorgb just to sell their products
I wasted a bunch of time RGB modding my component tv (sharp) and found that rgb, on this particular set was actually inferior. The component picture was sharper and more vibrant, and not in the artificially sharpened sense. The RGB picture was noticeably softer. I ended up ripping all the wiring out and going back to stock component. lesson learned.
I saw a video where a guy RGB modded his TV and everything looked off. The image was over saturated and too bright. There is always a possibility that you won't get the circuit perfect when doing a RGB mod.
I have a review coming out on a Sharp X Flat. Do you have one of those models?
@@riggel8804 I used to have a flat sharp 32". it had the best geometry I've ever seen on a flat consumer TV. I regret getting rid of it. The one I have now is a 27" curved tube and, to my eyes, looks just as good as any JVC D-series I've had.
@@rastanthebarbarian I've heard a lot of good things about sharp tubes. The one I reviewed (i haven't posted it yet) looked excellent. Unfortunately I couldn't find a way to turn off it's edge enhancement feature.
Thanks for letting me know that there are curved sharps with component. I didn't know that.
@@riggel8804 it was manufactured in 2006. also has a digital tuner. model number 27sc260. keep your eye out for one, they're nice! to disable the VSM (edge enhancement crap) on sharp tvs, you can mess with the VSM GAIN option in the service menu, or physically disconnect the VM coil's power cable. on my 32 inch it was a 2 wire harness with a yellow and white wire that connected to the yoke.
@@rastanthebarbarian Cool thanks. I will include the vm tip in the description of my video. Wish I would have know about that sooner. Excellent TV besides the edge enhancement.
People want rare and expensive items that nobody has to show how important they are and what a mega collector they have become.
In today’s retro gaming world the actual playing of games is on the bottom of totem poll.
I figured I might as well make a few videos on my channel to show off the PVMs and what not but I’m definitely not a contest creator or pro you tuber. I’m just an old school gamer with an iPhone 📱
Your channel Riggs is outstanding and informative. Definitely learning more on how to properly get my collection dialed in. 🏆
Thanks! I like ro monitors and I think it's cool you are making videos on them. I' enjoy your videos. Making videos is fun. I've been holding off on doing videos on my pro monitors but now is probably a good time. I don't want people to think I am anti-pro monitor.
I think there was also the problem that people in general didn't become aware of Component until right at the end of its lifespan. The first major console that shipped with Component cables was the 360. However this is also right when the switch from analog CRT to Digital LCD TVs was in full swing. Just two years into its lifespan the 360 switched to HDMI as its main output. So to most people Component was less about color quality and more about image resolution.
So only a very few ever knew they could get Component out of earlier consoles like the PS2 or that it was on option on TVs at all. Hell even S-Video (which offers probably the biggest leap in image clarity) was seriously undersold/used. When I was a kid I thought it was just a special port to plug a computer into a TV, while VGA was for Monitors. This was the only time I ever saw S-Video being used in the wild. And no wonder when the default cable they sold with every single device was Composite. Until HDMI rolled out you had to go out of your way and spend extra to get that S-Video or Component cable.
So the lack of personal experience with Component (never included in the box), its confusingly similar name to Composite and coupled with using the same plug-style. Just made people assume it was the standard A/V snake oil. Especially when there is this beefy looking connector from overseas that legend tells does full RGB.
Yeah when I look on old online posts most people talking about componet are more interested in getting HD resolutions out of it. Something retro gamers don't really care about. If we want hd we are using hdmi. It's crazy how short lived component was compared to hdmi. Shit, HDMI is still going.
When I was a kid I always used rf. I remember having a friend who tried to convince my friends and I to use composite because it looked better and we all teased him. Later, when I first got into CRTs I used s video. It was easy to find tvs and cables for and I think you are right, it is the biggest jump in quality.
I think the fact that many retro consoles support RGB natively but not Ypbpr, gives RGB a certain retro appeal over component. Like RGB is the original high quality format, and Ypbpr is this "weird imitation" that's like an extension of S-video.
On a technical level, RGB is appealing because it's the native format of every CRT, which makes it seem more "pure" and untouched than Ypbpr.
Very good take, thank you for reinforcing my components setup in my time of doubt.
Ye my dude. Can't do better than component. Time to play some games. I'm doing Fire EMblem 4 right now. What u playin?
As nice as a pvm is, I feel more satisfied with my consumer set with component, it's bigger anyway (40"). I figure if one wants a sharper image, assure that you have good caps and that the flyback isn't going out, adjust the brightness and you should be good to go. There isn't enough "signal loss" using a transcoder like RGB2COMP to say it looks worse than RGB, they're literally the same in terms of signal quality, but they are coming from a different color space. RGB is going to have a more of a purplish hue on dark colors because of how bright things are, set the bright down and it should look a bit more normal, component doesn't have this issue so you may be able to enjoy a brighter and sharper image at the end of the day.
I just don't see the difference between rgb and component. And I too wanted a pvm, the largest ever. The price was too much and the rgb input on the back wouldn't work, even with the bnc adapters. It'd have to be solely bnc cables but Idk honestly cuz' I didn't test it. It just isn't worth the hassle or the money. I spent less on a D Series that I'm eagerly waiting to be delivered and I'm happy with just component. If it has it, you don't need more done to it. Right?
I've been in Europe for 12 years now (UK), and I have acquired a few CRTs over the years, and as you may know, RGB SCART is abundant here on most CRTs, but my main set for 240p gaming, a KV-EF34M80, has no RGB SCART at all. But it does have YPbPr, and it looks beautiful. This test confirms what I've always suspected, the difference is minimal to barely existent. I use RGB2COMP.
You're right about many collectors not playing games and just shelving everything. It's a bit sad, kinda like having a musical instrument that you never play.
Greetings from the USA! It's cool that you're interested in my channel even though I don't cover any UK TVs. I can relate. There is this dude in Australia that covers CRTs that I am never going to see. I still love his channel--RGB Rob.
@@riggel8804 Thank you very much. I'm American though, from Mississippi, but I moved here 12 years ago. The CRTs are similar to what we have back home, except they are PAL and most have RGB SCART support. All the 90s and 2000s CRTs here support 60hz via SCART and many support NTSC composite as well, although I have a couple that do not, but you never have to deal with PAL if you don't want, which is my case. All my consoles are either American or Japanese, except for the HDMI ones, as there's no need to deal with the PAL stuff with them.
I had no luck with NTSC RF working on TVs here, that's a different story. My KV-EF34M80 was imported here, it is not a UK set, hence the YPbPr. The people I bought it from brought it here from overseas.
Now there's a few consumer CRTs here that are hard to near impossible to find back home, and that would be true analog EDTVs (480p via YPbPr, no 540p/1080i, no processing, no lag, yes, they do exist) but there's only a couple of models from Panasonic and Toshiba and they are rare here too. I have three of the Panasonic EDTVs. As far as I know, they are non-existent in the US. Another type are widescreen CRTs that support 240p, so it properly displays scanlines and all, but in a widescreen. The easiest way to find those here is to look for widescreen curved tubes, as the flat tubes are nearly all 100Hz, so 240p is interpreted as 480i and looks like crap, good for PS2 though, I played Silent Hill 3 in one of them. As for that type, only one set like that was released in the USA.
On the other hand, HD CRTs are not as common as they are in the US, and are nearly impossible to find here, as only a couple of sets came out. I have one of them, a Samsung with HDMI input, but it's not very good for gaming.
@@hellbillymods45 It sounds like the EDTVs do 480p natively but not 480i/240p. Is that correct? We have handful of "multiformat" monitors/TVs here in the states that will do 240p up to 1080i natively. Most are pro monitors but there is at least the RCA Proscan that is a consumer multiformat Tv.
How is CRT hunting going in your area? There are still TVs were I live in Central Coast California but it's definitely drying up. I think it will be dead by 2023.
@@riggel8804 The Panasonic does 480i very well just like any other analog set, but it's a 100Hz tube and does not interpret 240p correctly, unfortunately. However, it doesn't matter much to me personally about either, as I use it for 480p widescreen content exclusively. I use a Sony CPD-E400 for 480p or 720p in 4:3 and for 480i and 240p widescreen I use a Sony KV-32WS2U, and then for 480i and 240p in 4:3 I alternate between my KV-EF34M80 or PVM-20M2MDE. That was my initial point of getting all of those, one for every situation, although I horded some for a rainy day.
Yes, I know about the multiformat monitors, and unfortunately, you can't find those here, I don't think they exist, like the NEC one and all that. Multiformat PVMs and BVMs exist here just the same, usually even the same model numbers, with an E instead of a U at the end.
Generic branded CRTs can be found abundantly for very cheap prices. They all have SCART, and the majority support RGB, but not all (some have just composite SCART). You can usually tell by the symbol on the back of the TV, a little screen with three dots is RGB, and one with an arrow is not. Regular 4:3 Trinitrons usually go for a much higher price, but nothing crazy, and plenty of them still left.
Widescreen flat Trinitrons (480i only, no 240p) are considerably cheaper, I think that's because there are more recent and more of them survived. Widescreen curved Trinitrons (480i and proper 240p) are older and consequentially, much rarer, although there are other brands. Most of the time, with the widescreen sets here, I found that the flat newer ones don't do 240p, while the older curved ones do just fine, all the ones I have here do anyway.
PVMs and BVMs is another story, the pricing is insane and largely prohibitive. I would really like a high TVL set, but man, it's a small fortune. And finding a 20 inch multiformat here at all is a bit tough, from what I experienced, I might have to settle for a 14" and even then, my pocket will get ravaged.
I totally agree, I always thought Component looked better, but all the people saying RGB was better never made sense and fucked with my head, but I know that I'm not the only one now who thinks this, so thank you for your thoughts, it's interesting to say the least, keep up the good work!
Such a great point about setting the monitor for the system. I get different results from pretty much every system I use with my CRTs. We are spoiled today with modern systems being so plug and play.
The geometry is a big one. Every time I switch consoles I have to adjust the geometry a little. The Genesis, in particular, always looks under-scanned compared to other systems.
@@riggel8804 Agreed. Even on my MiSTer you will have different geometry per core. I pulled up Tetris and the top and bottom were cut off the way it needs to be set.
That's just the nature of analog video, most consoles didn't aim for strict broadcast signal levels and timings and it was quite common to output a signal with slightly higher or lower framerate compared to broadcast TV, and if you start looking at arcade boards, they can be even weirder. Just look for one of Kuro's recent posts or interviews about the testing he did on many HDMI to VGA DACs and Analog IO boards used with the MiSTer, it's quite enlightening.
I have a nice crt with component and s-video. I would never bother to use RGB, honestly I just stick to S-video for all my retro consoles. It has that "look" I remember, and it looks 90% as good as component in my opinion.
This obsession with pvms and RGB is very new, nobody I ever knew growing up actually playing these games even knew what a pvm was, or bothered with RGB.
Imo the biggest jump in video quality is composite to s video. S video is probably the easiest to hook up as well. But people like to tweak out on things. Myself included. Trying to squeeze every last bit of performance out of a nintendo. Can't wait for the rgb gameboy mod. Haha.
I just picked up a scart to component adapter so I can unplug the composite. I didn't know if RGB and YPbPr were equal or if there would be loss. Thanks for setting the record straight. Subbed.
You're welcome. You are going to be impressed. The jump from composite to component is a big one.
Many want to be the holders of the ultimate truth.
We are always learning new things.
I did the same experiment you did
On my TV's, the component also looks a little better than RGB.
The RGB, had the colors a little darker, a little less brightness and a little less contrast
The component had a little more brightness and contrast...The colors a tone or two below RGB...
They had a harmony, a better proportion between them, even being weaker than in RGB.
I spent a month to make an RGB mod on my TV...
After comparing RGB and component on the same tv....
Without any pretense, I found that everything I needed was ready..Without spending money, time, or causing damage to the TV set
A colleague said the component looked better...I thought he was lying...After I published my opinion after my test.
They said I was crazy and a liar too...
Thanks friend. Not for demonstrating that Component is better than RGB, as we know it can vary from tv to tv..
But by showing people that there are options...And that they can actually choose the one that's best for them.
A lie told a thousand times will never come true...
For a lie will never be true... For men like you, who through work and effort.
That the truth always prevails... Congratulations on the wonderful video!!!
Thanks! Going into this test my hunch was that they would look identical to the naked eye but RGB would look slightly better when zoomed in. I'm glad I was wrong and they look identical. Being wrong is often more rewarding than being right.
This, RGB folks are the audiophiles of retro gaming. They don't care about actually enjoying the content with the gear, but just the gear itself!
I've been wanting to do a video on audiophile vs videophile. I'm in both communities. I get that the sense that audiophiles use their gear more than videophiles. They still hoard gear but their are lots of videophiles that never use their gear, also audiophiles will listen to the entire album before they review it where as in the videophile community it's appropriate to review a game without beating it.
I did a video comparison between HD Retrovision vs RGB Scart with setup (didn't do as good comparison side by side like you) but I came up with exactly the same conclusion: Both are about the exact same. Just pick what's best for you setup and go. I started in the RGB scart route, and since I invested in that, it would cost more to switch over if I wanted to. If I had to do it over again I'd be tempted to go component for the flexibility of both upscaler and US CRT's both. Not to mention easier to get good quality component switches. Great topic man. You still recalibrate and fix CRT issues? Future reference lol.
Cool! I see the video on your channel. I will watch it later and get back to you.
I agree that the choice between RGB and component should be dictated by convenience rather than quality. RGB is easier to calibrate but component equipment is less prone to interference and is far cheaper.
Every time I search a topic, one of your videos comes up. I really enjoy your content and appreciate you sharing this knowledge!
thanks man. I goin through some booo shit right now but i get back to uploading in bout 3 month
I had that question too, why RGB modding a component tv, well thanks for clarifying it really makes sense
RGB modding a component TV is actual crazy talk, can't believe people actually do that. Great video!
Excellent video and I couldn't agree more! Everyone talks about how great RGB is and then fail to include that Component is just as good. I have been tracking down a CRT that I can attempt to mod primarily just to see if I'm able to do it on a previously undocumented model. I wouldn't attempt such a thing on a Component capable device though after doing some research.
I still think that RGB SCART cables are a reasonable investment because they are easy to convert to component with a SCART to Component box without adding significant lag in most instances.
If you are considering doing an RGB mod, see if you can find a component CRT and spend the money on a SCART to Component converter instead. The time saved and decrease in potential for error is priceless.
I couldn't have explained it myself better. YPbPr (Component Image) is VERY GOOD in terms of price vs quality. I'm a happy owner of a SCART to YPbPr transcoder connected to my Philips 29"TV. I even have a VGA (15Khz) to YPbPr (Component) transcoder and that saves you the trouble to look for a male SCART connector, you just need a male VGA connector and a 3RCA cable and you're ready to play in a CRT TV with 99.9% quality of a RGBS signal. Hugs from Chile 🇨🇱 (currently in late fall in late May, getting too cold here)
Your argument about collecting vs playing is so damn spot on.
amazing and important points here! tweaking your tv per console and even per game is a key and adds a ceremonious quality i personally like.
Yeah, the ceremony is real. Something special about pulling a game off a shelf and plugging it in. It's not the same selecting a rom off a list.
To me there is no "better", they are different, one is used for computer graphics back in the day (RGB) and the other is used for vídeo content (Component). Also, without RGB there is no component, so, component it's a conversion from RGB and also RGB requires more bandwidth than component to transport the exact same signal. You can't perceive the conversion losses in component but is there, whenever I can, I always choose RGB first but again, there is no "better".
The grass is always greener on the other side. UK wants Component, and North America wants RGB.. I’m Canadian and I use a Retrotek VGA to Component transcoder. No point in messing with RGB Modding just to be trendy and make it way more difficult than it needs to be.
I use a VGA to component transcoder as well but it usually out of stock. Do you have a link to the one you use?
Yea it's funny, I have talked to guys from the UK. They say Component gets the Paul Bunyan treatment over there.
It transcodes everything from native resolutions to super resolutions with no input delay. I’ve had mine powered on for like 2 years now. It runs nice and cool and gives a beautiful picture. Highly recommend this. Great product and great customer service.
@@VAMPIREMACHIINE I checked out their website looks good. Thanks for the info.
@@riggel8804 Glad to help man.
@@VAMPIREMACHIINE Thanks again for doing the CRTEmudriver Fitghtcade video. I use that every day. If you ever play Super Turbo send me a challenge. I'm Riggel1983 on fightcade.
Made some really good points in this video about the hype of RGB over component. Love your vids man! I also love your channel for the fact that you show users how to calibrate their pro-sumer TV's. I'm going to try to work on some more color balancing today using your white/black balancing videos.
Cool dude. Get back to me and let me know how you do adjusting white balance.
@@riggel8804 I got pretty far with doing some various cuts initially mostly with the blue and green guns, but I'm still fighting a bit of some scenes appearing quite dark in darker scenes and a little bit of red push (if I'm identifying that right, basically red running little hot like on Sonic's shoes for example). I had read somewhere to turn the AXIS setting down to zero which I initially had, but I put back up to around 8 last night as I thought that setting could be a part of my darkness issue. This is a 24 inch FV300 by the way for reference. I think I need to learn more about calibrating the low end of the spectrum with calibrating drive and so forth, but I'm definitely not an expert. Please let me know if you have any ideas.
14:40 RGB does look better here tho, it's a lot sharper.
I think it's also down to the fact that people may have heard that YUV/YPbPr gets transcoded internally in the monitor/tv to RGB before it's displayed. So doing that old system RGB -> YUV -> RGB in the tv may "degrade" the signal. In reality it's probably not true. Also since some transcoder boxes are more expensive or "better" than others, it leads you to believe that why bother trying to find the best when you can just RGB mod. Personally I wouldn't go through the hassle to RGB a low line count consumer tv. The cleanest image for cheap is finding an old pc VGA monitor anyhow. Plus scanlines with something like a mister. But yes, I'm sure there's people who RGB mod because it's cheap and easy for them over buying an expensive transcoder or various retrovision cables, however much they cost.
Great video! I’ve always thought RGB and component where displaying the same info to the screen but they arrived there through different means. This video confirms my suspicions. I used to have a PVM but it died. I located a Sony HD CRT and it works great via component. I was wondering if you think I need an upscaler of some kind or if the HD CRT will automatically upscale? Thanks!!
The built in upscalers on the hd crts are really bad. They have terrible input lag and no scanlines. I would look into getting a osc or a retrotink 5x unless you don't care about scanlines and input lag. Even then I think you need to disable the CRT's built in upscaler in the service menu and feed the TV it's native resolution. But I am not sure. Most of the HD CRTs have a weird native res of something like 540p. You could always dump it and get a SD CRT but I know they are getting harder to find.
First: I love your videos on CRTs you really know what your talking about.
Second: At the end of the video you talk about the prestige of Scart modded CRTs and I just want to mention that a lot of people don’t realize that component is just as good. When I started getting CRTs recently I just thought scart was the best Since that’s what everyone was using with upscalers.
Love the vids, can’t wait to open the back of my crt for some calibration, and thanks for opening my eyes to component.
You're welcome. I wish someone would of told me about component a long time ago. I'm glad I could help.
Thanks for the encouragement. I really appreciate it.
Huge difference. Component looks better here to me. With that being said you're not wrong about setup making a difference and then the tube regardless of chassis. I have a stunning trinitron but I still prefer my Panasonic Quintrix. It's far nicer to use for long periods of time. I've actually started to prefer shadowmask over aperture grille by a long shot too. After a couple of years of CRtr collecting and repair I can safely say based on my experience that Trinitrons are crazy overrated and so is RGB (if component is an option)
I've got some stereos that are exhausting to listen to for long periods but I have never noticed my Trinitrons getting exhausting after long periods. That's interesting.
You made some valid points. Great job on the video. Keep up the good work.
My question is can you upgrade a CRT TV from composite and s video to component mode?
@@jrudymorganclark2072 never heard of it. Might as well rgb mod it at that point. You could rgb mod it and get a component transcoder. I think this is what native component tvs basically do. They just have a built in transcoder.
Or can I mount a component RCA into my TV for instead of the composite input jacks? @@riggel8804
RF is the true video signal. Secret top tier video signal. You heard it from me first :3
Some games need RF/Composite artifacts to look decent.
RGB allows me to assert dominance over component plebians. They will never know the status and power of that RGB lifestyle!
I'm still kicking myself because when I used to have a working Wega set that supported 480p, I could have picked up this YPbPr converter and just ordered scart cables to all my consoles. Even when the tv died, I still had a way to run video up to my vga monitor.
I just started getting into CRTs, I think they're really cool. I like them a lot also because I've been wanting to get into speed running Super Metroid. I also just like things of high quality. I knew that Component was good but not THAT good. Do you happen to sell any monitors anymore? I'd be interested in buying.
I just sold the last CRT I was interested in selling. Just keep looking around for anything with component, Sony , Sharp, JVC Toshiba all make good stuff. You can still find stuff. Good luck.
One of the main attractions for me and CRTs is that they are high quality but not appreciated. Most people I picked up my CRTs from were amused that I was interested in them at all. You have to spend a lot of money to get a comparable experience from an LCD or OLED.
I have a Sony KV-27S40, the same family CRT that we've kept around since 1998. That set is composite only from factory, and instead of searching around for another consumer set that supports component, I decided to take what I already have and get it modded for both S-Video and RGB. I think that's the best use case of RGB modding CRTs, is if it comes with only Composite video from factory. If it already comes with at least S-Video, then you only get diminishing returns from there.
I don't even think the collector attitude is a problem, I do think it's cool to own rare things! The problem is when the collector's start getting stuck up and thinking that there's really more reasons to their collecting beyond just wanting to have something. I think it would be cool to get a PVM just because they look sick and are cool. But to be honest I would probably just keep using my consumer set cause it's much more accurate to what people would have been playing on when retro consoles were actually around... but yeah. Great video. I love when people actually ask critical questions instead of just being swept up in the opinions of their peers.
How does the Extron switch handle audio? I want to output to 3 devices; PVM, Toshiba AF, and retrotink 5x for my Plasma. About 8-9 consoles. I have 2 scart cables but I don’t mind starting from scratch with the component cable setup how you did. I just want to make sure about the audio. Thanks for all your work!!
I'm not sure. I don't use the audio on my switcher. It has "Phoenix " connectors on the back for audio but it sounds like you just buy the connectors and crimp them onto your audio wire. I've heard good things about the audio on the extron switchers.
Great video! I’m curious how component looks compared to s-video. I’m pretty much a novice. Got my systems hooked up through s-video on my flat Trinitron.
In my experience s video is really close to component video. There is a noticeable difference but it's not as noticeable as going from composite to s video.
@@riggel8804 Yeah I figured it was probably close, and you’re right. Major jump from composite to s-video.
@@DadRacer If your happy with it I would say don't bother. What you could do is next time you get a new system try hooking it up with component instead of buying s video cables. The MiSTer for example will output component right out of the box, so will the PS2.
11:58 I wholeheartedly agree with you that most people seek RGB for the prestige, it's a checkbox they have to tick in order to feel good. YPbPr can output HD content just fine, the only issue I find with it is that some TVs are more picky* about YPbPr signals than with S-Video or composite, not sure if any such TV would do any better with RGB, though.
And it's worth pointing out some devices will output "bad" stuff over RGB as well, it's no panacea. I've seen mentions of the Dreamcast outputting dangerously high signal levels on RGB and the non-linear output of the SNES. And a final interesting point: S-Video is way too underrated. Sure, it won't do HD like YPbPr, but with SD content it's nearly flawless, you can send a nasty multiburst or zone plate test signal over S-Video and see absolutely no luma/chroma interference like you'd get on composite.
* mostly modern TVs, some of those will do some ridiculously weird stuff with analog inputs
Just found your channel. You're awesome, man!
RetroRGB went over this with his sync on green post and he showed the comparison that RGB provides a better image. I'm curious if he did any of the same readjusting as you did?
I don't know about his sync on green post but I saw a video that RetroRGB did where he compares RGB and component with a BVM and a RGB modded consumer CRT. He doesn't do it right. You can see in his comparison that the brightness and contrast are up way too high on his component recordings.
he does that in purporse just to sell more products where he get comissions… everything changes when u realize is all about money (as always) so thanks for the video
@@gabnrami Maybe he'll have to do one of those videos where he denounces YPbPr as an inferior format and proves his point to keep said promotion? That would however just start a retro format war amongst the 'Purists' and the alternative (Could see PackAPunch cables being impacted by this somehow)
For my setup, I could use RGB but I already invested in Component thinking I'd never find a pro monitor with RGB. Fast forward a few years later, I now have a few PVMs but still run component because it's easier to switch out with a consumer set and the signal is hard to find any meaningful difference. I've run both signals through my Retrotink and can't spot the difference.
Love the component input on my jvc. It’s hard to dial the colors right for some reason, but the sharpness and color depth is all there. With hd Retrovision cables in 2021, there is no point to deal with scart or rgb imo. I’m all in on component
Iv'e noticed color issues with several of the JVCs I've had. For some reason it bothers me less on the JVSs than on my Sonys. Partly because I don't watch movies on my JVCs. I think color accuracy is more important for movies than it is for 24op games.
Is it just me or do D series run a little on the black side? I had noticed that when I had my D series hooked up
I think what you're saying is generally on point, but I would have liked to see this done with different sources - I generally hear people say the PS2 has a vastly less distinct RGB signal compared to most older consoles, and the X Collection isn't without its own fingerprinting on the original graphics. Have you done this sort of comparison using a more neutral setup and arrived at the same results?
Not sure what you mean by, " neutral" or " distinct rgb signal". Do you think the ps2 natively outputs better component compared to rgb? I doubt that. I tried to make this comparison as unbiased as possible. I use the same monitor, the same console, the same av cable and the same room lighting during the comparison. I use a ps2 because it's the only console I have that outputs rgb and component.
I used to have two setups in my room. One was rgb to mt bvm and the other was component to my consumer crt. After hundreds of hours of gaming on both setups I noticed that the rgb signal looked just as clean as the component. I later switched my bvm setup to component (so all my equipment was component) and I saw no loss in quality.
Sounds like you think rgb is better. It would be cool if you made a video demonstrating this. I would like to see it. I've seen two other videos, one by retro rgb and one by phonedork where they compare rgb to component and they come to the conclusion that rgb is better. Those videos are wrong because they didn't calibrate their monitors after switching from rgb to component. Component always looks washed out after switching from a rgb source that's calibrated and rgb always looks garish after switching from a component source that's calibrated. Those knobs on the front of your pvm are there for a reason. You need to calibrate the image when switching signal.
@@riggel8804 I don't personally have a horse in this race, I'm not at a place where I can afford a pro monitor or an RGB setup right now. I just find it interesting to learn about in case I ever decide to pursue it. From the folks I know who do have those setups, the consensus has been that the PS2's component is pretty much on par with its RGB output, and this matches the results My Life in Gaming put up in their PS2 breakdown. Comparatively, samples from places like MLiG comparing RGB and component signals on other consoles tend to show a greater difference in sharpness, even after calibration.
Is it significantly better? Not necessarily, you hit diminishing returns pretty fast as you go up the ladder. But I do think there is a difference in results at least in some circumstances, and that it's a bit too broad to suggest based on this single case study that RGB as a format produces identical results.
@@TheLimboOfTheLost The purpose of my video is to convince retro gamers that component video produces identical results to rgb and I think it does that. It's really aimed towards people like you that haven't committed to one or the other yet. You would be a lot better off picking up a consumer grade 27 inch Trinitron with component video and a transcoder over purchasing a 14 inch rgb monitor. The former is going to cost less money and be more enjoyable due to the larger screen.
If you do notice a difference, it's likely not because of a difference between the two signal types, and more likely related to there being more interference on one cable vs. the other, or something else like that. Like the guy in the video said, it's more to do with "setup" than with inherent differences between the signals.
I never see anybody complaining about the quality difference of one signal vs. the other. Either one is very good and much better than the signals used by S-video or Composite video, or even worse, RF/coax. A lot of people actually confuse the two and don't realize that they're different, in part because "RGB modded" consoles often still end up having component video cables used with them, and don't realize that circuitry in the cable itself is actually converting the signal from RGB to YPbPr.
Information like this should be shared more out there. RGB and YPbPr are pretty much identical, it's a clean signal, but in my opinion YPbPr is easier to handle, has no sync issues, only 3 cables, etc. As you said it's mostly a collectors mind set going for RGB.
I'm curious you mentioned finding different brightness levels between RGB and YPbPr on your PVM. Have you tried adjusting Sub-Contrast, Sub-Brightness, Sub-everything on the service menu YPBPr section of your PVM? My PVM was adjusted with very saturated levels for YPbPr and YC, I'm not sure if they were using it with weak signal equipment or just liked the saturated look. After I adjusted sub levels to the front panel's knob neutral positions everything is perfect for RGB and component
I haven't adjusted those levels on that pvm however I have noticed on multiple crts that switching from rgb to ypbpr increases the brightness. I just use the brightness and contrast knobs on the front to compensate.
Hi, could you tell what rgb/component cable you are using ?
@@nomprenom440 don't know. Cheap dollar store cables seem to work fine for component. Rgb cables need more shielding or you will get artifact on screen. Usually looks like wavy white lines
Thank you for calling out the collector that's all about "yea...I've got that, got it for cheap too" vs "I got ____, and actually used/played/enjoyed it"
I'll play games on anything: composite, s-video, ypbpr, or rgb. Especially with svideo vs component, I can look past which is which.
A lot of people don't care that much about fine tuning video signals and I can dig that. There is something appealing about grabbing a free crt off the curb, plugging in composite and calling it good. There is this cool channel on UA-cam called Battletoad overload where a guy does that.
Incredible job filming this! LUMIX GH5? I completely agree with you though, component is super underrated in the retro gaming scene. I prefer it for convenience’s sake alone so I can swap it into my consumer sets. We’ve got to get back to making playing games the main thing.
There are scenes where playing games is the main focus and I have been gravitating towards them in the last few years. I'm talking about the FGC and STG, fighting games and shmups.
I use an old ass iphone 5 for filming. It works better than most expensive cameras. You Can't do better for 200 bucks.
@@riggel8804 That’s insane haha! Could have fooled me that this was a DSLR.
I modded for RGB for a few reasons. First it’s simpler to get all your classic systems all into scart, half of them support it natively. Second it was a fun challenge, then get to go through and do the nesrgb mod etc, as a hobby it’s been fun. So now I have most my stuff on a scart switch and a coupe on component on a nice looking TV. Maybe a transcoded would be simpler.. but but you still have to get rgb cables and mod consoles
Yeah you definitely need RGB cables and your consoles outpututing RGB if you are going to use RGB or component on your tv. But that's besides the point. The question remains, what are you going to plug all that shit into? RGB or component? For most people it's far cheaper and easier to get a transcoder.
That's cool you like modding stuff. I thought it would be cool to mod this old trini I had that only had s video but I never got around to it. Too many games to play.
i think the reason people think of rgb better is that it doesnt have to translate ypbpr to rgb to the red green and blue electron guns in the tube but i have two pro monitors and in my case its just less of a hassle to go component instead of rgb
I'm picking up a modded RGB Trinitron soon. Growing up with just RF and composite, I want to see what RGB is like. That, plus a lot of the CRTs being sold where I live that are of the component variety also happen to be 100Hz ones and not good for 240p gaming. You make a good point though needlessly modding a perfectly good component CRT though. Despite being informative, the people of the CRT gaming subreddit scare me. I really do wonder if they actually do anything with all of the consumer CRTs, PVMs and BVMs they've amassed for themselves. As for myself, once I lay my hands on this Trinitron, that'll be it for me. Rather than obsess over the minutia, I'll be gaming.
Awesome. Good luck with your trinitron. I think you will be impressed. Composite to RGB is a big jump. What games you playing?
@@riggel8804 Well, I plan to use it with a MiSTer (which I am still waiting for). I think I will start with Alladin for the Sega Megadrive because I never finished it as a kid. My father did though (with one hand as well!). After that, probably some stuff from the NES, because I never had one. I want to play everything from the 8-bit and 16-bit eras!
@@johnhammond7579 When I got back into gaming I beat all the games that kicked my ass as a kid. I felt like the Karate Kid learning martial arts and taking revenge on all the bullies.
I fell for the RGB hype cult myself, I bought a TV many years ago that was RGB modded just to experience this coveted connector, the TV also had component, and when I went and tested both inputs I discovered that not only component looked identical but to my eyes it even looked slightly better, and I paid quite a lot for the TV. It truly was a waste of money just like it's a waste to RGB mod a TV that already has Component. Although I totally understand doing it to a set from the 90s or 80s that only has composite or even worse RF only, in that case it truly is an improvement even if you don't do a great job with the mod, nowadays I've done it myself to those curved early 90s/late 80s TVs and it's very worth it.
Thanks for sharing your pov. There are a lot of excellent 90s sony crts out there with no component. I bet they look great with an rgb mod. What do you think about modding a lower quality tube for rgb? I had a low quality tube with component before and i thought it looked better with COMPOSITE. the component video was too sharp and there was a "screen door pattern " on the tube. Basically the vertical black lines were as prominent as the scanlines. Not a good look imo.
@@riggel8804 You're right not all tubes are created equal, personally I had great success with all Sonys I've tried but they were the gold standard back then although I do try to collect good ones, but it's no wonder they look so great with RGB when a lot of the same models already had RGB in their Japanese and European variants via their RGBS/SCART connectors, while the NTSC variants were downgraded with Composite/RF only, they were already made with RGB in mind is just that us in the Americas didn't know about it. I actually did mod a non Sony TV once and it didn't look good, it's a Samsung TV from the mid 90s, back when they were still considered an El-Cheapo brand. I ended up going back to Composite with it as something didn't look right when using RGB and no matter what kind of adjustments I made even in the service menu it never looked good, maybe it really is the tube that is low quality and the RGB just makes all its defects more obvious, explains why even Component would probably look bad on a set like that too if it had it, I guess they were never meant to be used like that, I still have it around as is 36 inches and best of all it has under 100 hours of use, it belonged to an elderly lady that passed away not long after she bought the TV and it just sat there on a pretty clean room for over 20 years unused, it's basically my backup and last resort if something were to happen to all my high-end Sonys, the tube itself while not as high quality as a Sony is not horrible by any means, and is super fresh and is a sight to behold, especially when gaming, the colors really pop, the contrast is on point, and the geometry is perfect, stuff that you can only get with an almost brand new tube, it beats any old tired tube out of the water even if RGB doesn't look good. Man if only we could still get new Sony ones sigh.
Thank ya for this, it truly does come down to setup. I prefer converting my rgbs bncs to component just because its easier to setup.
Could you make a comparison between S-video vs Component/RGB on Sega Genesis/Mega Drive?
Nope. My Sega doesn't output s vid and I don't have my MiSTer setup to output s vid... I got an early model SNES with s vid cables. I remember the S video being very similar to RGB on it but that model has crap RGB.
I like my setup on standard sometimes vivid. I mainly going back to component because of my oled and crts.
Should have compared RGB and component to AV. That's a good comparison.
All CRT monitors display in RGB. The monitor converts Composite, S-video, and Component into RGB. A native RGB signal going straight to the monitor is technically better because it’s not processed (RGB in and RGB out). Component vídeo on the other hand is a processed signal, but because the signal is similar to RGB their difference is minimal. In practice, I prefer Component video just because you can further tweak the image by adjusting the aperture and chroma on your monitor settings. After tweaking the monitor settings, I can make Component video look even better than RGB.
I've used a RGB AND component cable to connect mi Wii with a HD CRT. RGB was great but component was a little bit better.
Technically the component should be worse since the original image is converted from RGB to YPbPr luma+chroma and then back to RGB. However with good convertors, cables, and the resolution being only 240p, the difference would practically be zero.
Great video. I recently sold a nice component Trinitron because it was too large for me and instead am using my basic 13" CRT I found off the street. It looks fantastic, has great geometry and is a much more manageable size. I'm interested in doing the RGB mod because it's composite only and I think that's the only valid reason to do this RGB mod. It's a lot easier to find a composite CRT in the US than one with component, especially small TVs. But even if I don't do the mod, my tv still looks pretty great.
@@Matt_Sorensen some tvs look wack imo with an rgb mod. If its an inferior tube you get a screen door pattern when you feed it a clean signal like rgb or component. Inferior tubes look better with composite imo. However if your tube is good i.e. Sony then it will look good in rgb. Smaller tubes don't suffer from screen dooring in general so your probably fine.
@@riggel8804 that's good to know, thanks! If it the mod did look bad I could always just not use it, right?
@@Matt_Sorensen depends on the mod. Some disable composite but some leave it intact. You're probably fine since the tv is 13 inches. Even if it screen doors you probably won't notice it. What type of tv is it?
@@riggel8804 I'd probably do the mod with a switch to turn on the RGB input if possible. The tv is an Apex AT1308, silver budget CRT but actually the picture and geometry is really nice.
@@Matt_Sorensen never heard of that tv. some of the "budget tvs" have really good tubes in them. Main thing is that you like it. If you can put in a toggle switch you don't have anything to lose...unless you fuck up the mod.
Just what did you even used for showing the composite signal? you're not using any converters at all to upgrade it than using mods.
The composite is plugged in with a third party cord. The same cord I used for rgb and component in this video. The monitor in this video has the comb filter enabled. This cleans up the composite signal. No converters. No mods.
Most of the retro consoles support RGB nativity or through modifications such as SEGA Genesis and SNES. As for PC-E, it seems only has RGB modifications. Could that be a factor to consider when choosing RGB or component?
Na. Just get a component tv and buy a transcoder
@riggel8804 Don't quite understand buy a transcoder to convert RGB from console to component input on TV?
@@linxeen135 ive got a video on it. I think its titled "how to get rgb into north american crts"
@@linxeen135 if you live in an area with lots of rgb tvs by all means get an rgb tv. Here in the usa rgb tvs are rare and component tvs with a transcoder is a better option
@@riggel8804Most of my TVs only have S video and composite hence I mainly use PVM for gaming. Thanks for this great video which gives another perspective for me to reflect. Is RGB the best and only option? I'm now ordering some component cables to try them out.
In North America we got shafted when it came to image quality for our video games. In the 90s game systems were shipping with crappy RF adapters, and unless you had a more recent TV, that might have been the only way you could even hook your games up to a TV set from the 70s or 80s. We were trained to accept garbage, and now people want redemption. They want what everyone else already had. I still struggle to understand why we were given these lower standards of image input/output. This is 'Murica, but we didn't care how crappy our TVs image quality looked until HDTV became suddenly relevant one day.
S video is good. It's not as good as component or RGB but it's pretty close.
Component is slightly better than RGB. It also eliminates the need for an external sync cable due to it syncing on green. That's the main reason it became the standard on consumer products before HDMI.
With decent signal quality, there's virtually no practical difference. If your goal is to actually play and enjoy games, there is zero reason to choose RGB/SCART over component. Honestly, if I'm sitting 8 feet away from my CRT, it's hard to tell the difference between s-video, YPbPr, and RGB SCART. The huge jump happens between composite video and s-video. Having that separate channel for luma brings the clarity and the rest is about color. Even still, when sitting a few feet back, a lot of the composite and RF artifacts become much less noticeable. I absolutely agree with going for whatever your highest quality option is, but people with component, or even composite only, TVs should feel zero shame. Jump on some damn turtles and have fun. Mario and Sonic don't care what port is feeding them into the TV.
RGB and component looks the same . S-VIDEO is brighter and it's good as well.
is rgb using scart or just component cables?
i use the same cables for rgb and component in this video I show the cable early on. its got rca jacks on the end....dont get hung up on cables. shits overblown.
I’ve found, in most cases, that Component actually looks better than RGB. RGB can appear too bright and actually wash out colors in the process. Component keeps the bright colors vibrant while keeping the dark tones nice and warm. Its hard to compare the two, but Component definitely can be arguably a lot easier to pull off in a retro setup 😂
From a technical point of view, Component has reduced bandwidth on the (chroma) Pb and Pr channels compared to the (luma) Y channel. RGB cannot do that - all three channels always have to be equal in bandwidth.
This means the horizontal chroma resolution is slightly compromised for Component. For all practical applications, this difference is pretty much invisible, especially to the untrained eye.
You can just about see it however in the very first extreme close up (0:00). Look at Megaman's red ear. The red slightly loses it's saturation towards (in this case) the left end because of the chroma subsampling inherent in Component. But I bet nobody would have noticed if I didn't spoil it.
You should pick what works better for you with the equipment you have. In reality there are lots of other factors, most notably how a TV or monitor processes both signals, and that has way more impact than the technical fact that RGB has no chroma subsampling.
I've noticed that component video doesn't suffer from artifacts the way rgb does with long cable length and poor shielding. Any thoughts on this?
@@riggel8804 Most of the time it's caused by the frequency of the color modulation in the Composite video signal that leaks into the RGB lines with long cables and weak shielding.
As you probably know, RGB needs a separate sync signal as there is no sync in either the R, B or G channel (there also exits sync-on-green, but it's badly supported). Most of the time this sync signal is, unfortunately, regular Composite video of which the TV or monitor only extracts the sync pulses and discards everything else.
It also leaks into the audio channels if they are close by or in the same cable, like with Scart.
You may have heard it before, it's a buzzing sound and it gets louder the brighter the image. It's most obvious when there is no sound played. A good example is the Konami logo with white background displayed at the start of some games.
Component video's Y channel is a simple Video Baseband Signal without any color (same as black and white TV was), or in other words, it's like Composite but without any color modulation. This is a lot less prone to leak into other channels.
This is also the reason there exist special "Sync-on-Luma" RGB-Scart cables for some consoles (PS1/PS2 for example). These cables pick the Luma (Y) signal instead of Composite for use with RGB to use as the sync signal. This is only possible with consoles that output Y (for use in S-Video) along with RGB.
*curios to see a comparison with S-VIdeo and component.
I can't believe we still have this debate. On a PVM there will be hardly to no perceivable difference between component and rgb. On a consumer set it depends on how the component input/processing is implemented. If it is done poorly it will look worse than running RGB via a mod/bypass. If it is well implemented it will look almost identical. At the end of the day it isnt the type of connection its more to do with the TV itself.
What's the game's name at 12:38?
CASTLEVANIA RONDO OF BLOOD
For me the component looks mich netter than RGB.
I think as RGB is a raw format with the red, green and blue, prism split images, being captured by 3 separate sensors in cameras and PVM's as well as BVM's being the superior types of CRT displays, that most people think that its the best signal, as the best CRT displays generally use that format. Component YPbPr having the Y luma signal (luminance and sync), the Pb (differential between blue and luma) and Pr (differential between red and luma) only sends two color signals as the green color can be derived from the Pb and Pr signals. This probably leads them to think it is inferior. Having an extra signal for green (Pr) would be redundant. It is because of intelegent engineering that component video, which is derived from RGB, that it can deliver such an image with fewer cables. They say that its almost identical... I would argue whether or not people can tell the difference, as you have shown in your video they look the same. I don't think most of these people doing RGB mods on component ready CRT's, have ever sat down and compared the same images from RGB and YPbPr on the same display. Yes many of these people are doing it because they think its cool or for the prestige of having something rare. When you make a video like this I'm sure it will be like rain on their parade, or they will ignore you because they can no longer argue with you. Thanks for making these videos.
I'm guessing this video will be ignored by the collector types. From how I see it now, there is not much communication between the collecting scene and the "hardcore" gaming scene ( I hate the term hardcore but I don't know what else to call it). I wish it wasn't this way. I would like to be more welcoming towards collectors and I wish collectors would be more open to correction from the hardcore scene.
yep it def looks pretty similar.
I can't speak for everyone, but most older consoles support RGB and not component video, and modding the TV itself for RGB (if possible) would be a lot cheaper than buying a converter.
I still haven't gotten around to it, though..my main TV needs a recap before it would need anything like an RGB mod.
BTW, not sure if you mentioned this, but I think another couple of reasons people dislike component:
People commonly get it mixed up with "composite" video because it starts with the same five letters.
People think it's bad because of all the negative press it received during Hollywood's campaign to replace it with HDMI.
I've got a video where I talk about RGB mod vs transcoder. I think it's called, "how to get rgb into your North American consumer TV". I disagree. I think most people are better off with a transcoder but RGB mods are cool too.
It's honestly not too expensive/hard to find a rgb to component converter out there. Just gotta do research and make sure not to buy junk
Depends on one's definition of "expensive". I personally can't justify spending over $100 on one device, just so I can have a prettier picture if I want to plug my PC into an old TV.
And most of them are no longer in production.
I did just find an RGB->composite converter for under $50 the other night, though. It's out of production, but one site still has a few in stock.
Nowadays with cheap (19 USD to 27 USD) RGBS+SCART to YPbPr you can enhoy a 99% like image on a cheap old CRT TV with the advantage that there are tons of 21", 25", 29", 34" consumer grade TV's with YPbPr (Component) input. I'd absolutely recommend this to many people in the US, Canada, And Latin America that cannot afford importing am european CRT TV with SCART input (we're talking about shipping of at least 45lbs for 21"TVs and 100lbs for 29"TVs).
Greets for all retrogames lovers and in greater part to purists that want to play retro consoles and arcade games (through MAME) with an almost flawless video quality. Hugs from Chile 🇨🇱, South America (currently in late fall...getting colder...)
Greetings! Yeah it's getting warmer up here in California. It's cool to here from different parts of the world and how they are gaming. Here in the USA a lot of gamers want RGB. Typically they purchase an professional video monitor instead of importing a crt from Europe. Problem with that is that Professional crts are expensive and there typically really small..
I play a lot of arcade games. I use fbneo instead of mame because fbneo allows me to use runahead latency reduction but mame is cool too.
I saw a video of a guy looking for an appropiate consumer CRT for RGB mod and he got a TV with component inputs and threw it away because it had the microcontroller and jungle in the same chip or something so it would not be easy to RGB mod it. I thought it was ludicrous. Component cables are easy to find and many consoles do have native component output.
I totally agree. I wish there was more awareness out there about component video. That's one of the reasons I made this video. I have another video titled something like, "How to get RGB into USA consumer CRTs". At the end of that video I go into the culture around rgb and component.
Well this does it for me!! Got 3 flat Trinis all with component but, wanted to find a curved Trini with component which either doesn't exist or a unicorn. I'm more into arcade emulation so I use a vga to component transcoder and crt emudriver for the 240p pc. My other pc Is just has dvi-i out to vga adapter going to a vga trisync arcade monitor for 480p gaming. I guess no need to mod tv's or anything else which is good news. Thanks for the comparison bro!!
You're welcome. I think you will like next month's video. I compare all the best consumer grade tvs. There is a curved glass sony with component in there.
@@riggel8804 right after I commented, I saw you had one. Now sits time for you to ship that right on over this way!! 🤣. Good stuff brother.
I have the same Olympus PVM.
good points. i been collecting not playing. but its me buying my old consoles and everdrives so i did it quick.had retropies but latency and inaccuracies and poor performance sometimes. waiting on 2 scarts and final cart. learned how composite is useful regarding some genesis games so i keep composites. haven't seen rgb in rlf so i am eager. but true, no component fanboyism like rgb. yet i seen one guy change sides like a cult. selling all rgb hardware and maybe unmodding (i personally dont mod for rgb but i think its fine. ) to go component. why not just keep stuff and convert/transcode or get other cables?
interesting too see how they are the same or nearly the same. I think developers had different screens that varied and considered different cables, i prefer options not sides.
Yeah there is that dihthering thing with composite. There is a option with the MiSTer Genesis core that allows you to have dihthering with component/RGB. Best of both worlds.
Im still partial about doing an RGB mod. I mean if only my tv had something better than composite, i'd stop there.
Problem is, 90% of the tv's in my country are composite, which honestly by all means it looks good already.
The JVC N series i have from 2003 seems to have exceptional comb filter that makes composite viable.
Biggest problem is i only wanna use a PC for everything. Any VGA to composite converter seems to introduce palpable lag around 30ms and that's too much.
Welp i hope i dont break anything in the tv or zap myself.
I think it's worth doing a RGB mod if the TV only has composite. Good luck.
I hate how rgb removes some of the softnesses and color blending
We can never get a perfect look.
U ether get a sharpe image with. A harsh look
Or a fuzzy image with. A nice soft look with blended colors
I can only speak by myself, I have a way to emulate games on my pc, I don't care about rgb, I use a rgb to component transcorder and that's it, for this purpose I have a big sony crt tv. if i want someting portable i will often use a game console through composite on a tiny composite tv, I was lucky and got tiny ikegami who does the job, my toshiba 10' tv doe's it as well, it depends if i will play alone or with my wife.for the games, the console is the priority (if you want(care about) the real thing), and now we are lucky to have multicarts so if I have one I can play most with one cartridge that's it, but as you said I use the things I purchase and it's often not to exhibit to others.For old pc games I have the hardware for that and I have a crt vga monitor and that's it still use it for work on a regular basis and it's fine.(note: ereryone will have a way or preference to play in whatever mode they fell they like, if it looks good enough for the person who make it's purchase with their own money then its fine)
you got that CRTemudriver?
You remind me of this dude on youtube that plays Battletoads on as many CRTs as possible. He doesn't care about RGB or composite. He just wants to play Battletoads. I respect that.
@@riggel8804 yeah i have, I use crt emudriver on a ati radeon hd 4550 and works fine ps1 through retroarch it's the limit of this card, on mame 3d games most works fine the only problematic are tekken 3 and soul calibur, the workaround is rise the processor speeds on mame in the settings, 2d are perfecty fine no issues.for arcade I use advmenu with mame and a arcade stick.
@@riggel8804 BTW there is a Brazilian channel who posted some free arcade packs with the system included using advmenu for free Clandoordie, if you are intrested. Then the configuration and installation of the crt emudriver will be by yourself but, is not that dificult, the thing is that you can use like i did a dell optiplex 780 on the cheap and build one yourself, you will need and transcoder form the rgb form vga/dvi to component, I guess you have one since you used to use a pc on the crts.
I use HD Retrovision Component for my PlayStation 2 with my Sharp 27F541 X-Flat
Turned down VSM Gain in service menu
It’s gorgeous!!!
curious why you use hd retrovision for the ps2? It's got native component output.
That's cool you can turn down vsm in the service menu. That's the only thing I found wrong with the x flat (the edge enhancement). I wish I would have known how to do that when I did my video on the xfalt.
@@riggel8804 Oh, it’s the only component cable I have at the moment.
I used it for a EDTV and HDTV I had lying around.
Is there a reason to use the native component? Will it look better? Sorry I’m new to all this!
Yeah it’s a good set and I even got my hands on an original remote.
The service manual is online (thankfully) and I have been tweaking settings conservatively here and there. It’ll never be 100% but it’s getting there haha
@@disbeatcontinues I don't shoot for perfection personally. I just try and improve things.
The HD retrovision cables are fine. They do have to calibrate the image when converting from rgb but I heard they do a really good job at it and they are console specific. If I had them lying around I would probably use them but if you are looking to buy cables I would just get ps2 component cables and tell the ps2 to output component in the settings. Unless I am missing something....Do you're ps2 hd retrovision cables convert rgb to comp or are they straight component cables?
@@riggel8804 they are straight component cables, I think they look fantastic already haha
@@disbeatcontinues i am thinking about ordering SNES HD retrovision comp cable -- any thoughts on that quality?
Damn dude, great job but how could you not use OEM/HDRetrovision component cables?? Makes me wonder about your RGB cable quality too.
Either way, great job. Once I get better at adjusting white balance I’d love to recreate this comparison. Gotta watch your white balance video a few more times. Always have trouble trusting a reference monitor’s white level to adjust towards.
I wanted to use the same cable for both signals. I think this is the best way to control for the cable variable. If there is a flaw with the cable it will be shared across both signals. The OEM cable will do component but it won't do RGB. The HD retrovision cable will do component but not RGB.
You can use an lcd monitor as reference for adjusting white balance. Most LCD monitors have excellent white balance.
@@riggel8804 whoa yeah man the same
principle you pointed out about having to calibrate differently for each signal; the same applies to well made cables. RGB and component cables, good ones, are attenuated within the cable. That’s a variable I’d really consider researching.
I also have a recapped OEV203 so I’ll definitely be recreating this with HD retrovision and retro access scart cables.
I’m going to try the white level adjustment soon! Thanks!
Great! thanks!
RGB and component are the same. Red blue Green separated.
RGB 15khz só perde para componente 480p, parabéns pelo vídeo.
10:39 straight facts
I've been bothered about this because people mod their tvs and consoles hoping to get that better image quality and it's debatable whether we had it this whole time already. There's enough posts making YUV look terrible by comparison, but not enough to show that it could be fixed and improved upon.
Also nobody is debating YUV 4:4:4 as the color output and how it gets paired with 4:2:2, 4:2:0, which is something we wanna avoid.
I was dissapointed with the rgb vs component videos out there. That's why I made this video. What's all that stuff about 4;4;4 and 4;2;2? I am not familiar with those ratios.
@@riggel8804 That's something to do with the color space and 4:4:4 is as pure as it gets. Both for RGB and YUV values. 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 are lesser values and don't offer quite as much colour detail.
There's other terms that go with YUV as well.
YPbPr = Analog YUV
YCbCr = Digital YUV
So there's no indistinguishable difference between RGB and Component other than what tips they use. Got it.
I prefer composite for the dithering
As an owner of a ‘96 Sony Trinitron (RGB modded, but pre-component) and a ‘03 Toshiba with component I will say that there is literally no reason to mod a component TV. Any signal processing/noise of component is minuscule and/or microseconds.
How does your toshiba compare to your rgb modded sony? I've heard people say that the curved glass sony consumer tvs have a dimmer image.
@@riggel8804 Well, I use them both with MiSTer FPGA and that system seems to crank up the brights & colors. So, I’ve had to dial back the brights & contrast a bit. I can tell you that the curved-screen 27” Sony crt has better, overall geometry to the flat-tube 27”Toshiba. The flat-tube has a slight pinch in the middle that I see on virtually all flat-tubes over 20”. I have a flat-tube 14” Advent that has no pinch, but it might just be the smaller size. The little Advent actually has an amazing picture, but it is the youngest with a 2005 date tube and probably got the least amount of use with its original owner.
P.S. I seems like it is getting more and more difficult to even come across CRTs these days… especially Component-input models.
@@MrArkBrian cool thanks for the feedback. I think a lot of the talk about curved screen sonys having a dimmer image can be credited to the fact that they are just old, worn out, tired tubes.
@@MrArkBrian I agree. It has definitely dried up in my area.
I like composite , it looks softer, less aliased and less blocky
I agree, I specially like how the plant looks on composite but X (Mega Man) is too blurry, you can't even see his mouth, it destroys too much detail, I think S-Video is a better middle ground between a softer look without destroying so much detail.
@@AJ-po6up unfortunately my tv has either component or composite. My other crt has only composite. Most people would agree with you. Svideo is the best. Component should only be used on 480i games like ps2 or on lcd tv.
Component looks better here, richer colour saturation and more contrasty.
Great video
Thanks!
I've RGB modded like 6 TVs at this point, granted they all were curved Sonys that maxed out with S Video. RGB looks way better then the S Video, been trying to film a comparison but it's so hard to get a good video of the TV
Those are great tvs to RGB mod. Sony was at the top of there game back then. They had some really good tubes.
Have you ever noticed if the curved Sony tubes are dimmer than the flatscreens? I have heard people remark on this. I have noticed that my xbr48 is dimmer than any of my flatscreens but I am not sure if this is just normal aging.
@@riggel8804 I got a xbr200 to compare too, hard to say about brightness. They both can get way brighter then needed. I also recap them when I convert them so that may help with brightness
@@Fahrenheit38 cool. Thanks for the info