It’s something we all complain about in this trade. How are the controls on million dollar machines less advanced than an Atari? It’s cool to see that a company out there is taking it to the next level! Hope to work on one soon
The TNC 7 Simulater needs 16GB of Ram. I could not find requirements for Siemens Sinumerik one because sadly they are locking it up behind a paywall. And the graphics in both of them are probably 1000x better than a Atari because the simulation needs it.
@@TheDayzmani had the tnc7 installed but it was a pita to do because i had to install a kind of business virtualmachine with some special addon software and disable some windows features. I was kind of shocked when i saw the alerts in the top right corner because they look like some scam popups on websites^^
I write CAM post processors for both Siemens 840D and Heidenhain control. I'd say both are equally as powerful, but Heidenhain is so much easier to work with from a code perspective. It's way more intuitive than Siemens. Plane spatial vs cycle 800 is one example. Heidenhain drilling cycles are also so much easier to set up and read. Siemens has the same problem as fanuc, in that you can configure it 10,000 different ways, making troubleshooting post processors way more annoying than Heidenhain
Could you operate CNC with the other controllers the same way on Grinding/Additive/Multitasking/Millturn/Laser/Turnmill/Anytype possible technology machine tool?. With SINUMERIK you can do it. That's why it's the most complex controller with the best performance you can achieve.
Heidenhain is way more easier to use. If you write the prog on the machine Heidenhain is the way. All so simple and powerfull. In some cases is usefull to write a simple program on the machine. Heidenhain Klartext programming is so easy. I do that for over 6 years and was easy. The best machine is a Hermle with a Heidenhain control. Nothing can beat that. A Hermle is so powerfull and precise. It‘s so funny to work on it
I'm trying to get Camworks to post correctly for the Sinumerik 840D 5 axis gantry Zimmermann with A-C .. Lots of time invested so far to get any reults.
Absolutely could not agree more! I’ve been using Siemens CNCs for more than 20 years, and I’ve always preferred them over any other. Even the old 840D PowerLine CNCs were far more powerful than most others today. Glad to see the rest of the world is finally catching up!
Good vid Barry. I ran a 2003 Giddings with the 840d and it's still my favorite control. Even back then, the control had most of the features you showed here. Two points I'd like to add: 1. Restarting is so easy and you can do it anywhere. The machine will find its way there. 2. The power of sinumerik for parametric programming. It makes the latest generation of Macro B look like an abacus by comparison. I have a couple fanuc 31i-B5 controls with iHMI and they don't wven compare.
I didnt like the calling tools by name instead of T number thing at first becouse i was used to the "old system", but now after using it for a while i love it.
I'm an electrician and I repair many different machines from different manufacturers and years of construction, no control was so simple and intuitive before. The graphical displays make it really easy to understand what the machine is doing with each command. Inserting a drilling cycle into a program is a matter of seconds, even if you've never done it before. Creating a workpiece and simulating the machining on the control is also super easy.
I have experience with both the Siemens 840 and the Heidenhein TNC640 systems. While both are excellent, I find the Heidenhein system a bit easier to use. It offers similar or even greater capabilities, and its touchscreen interface with larger buttons is better optimized compared to Siemens, where precise button presses can be challenging at least with my greasy fingers
i worked on both 2 for me the siemens is the easiest you will get. if you use it for cycles you can take a random person from the street and he can done a cycle with no problem
I work with hurco machines almost exclusively at my shop, and I have to say it's super user friendly and awesome to work with. Have any of you guys from Titans worked with those machines? To be honest it looks like of one the only controls that could give the Siemens a run for its money
i`ve been on the Siemens 828D for about 6 or so years, and for our application mainly multi start tapered thread ( new and repair), it has been amazing
This sounds like a terrific control. I'm an old retired manufacturing engineer who used to do manual programming on a Flex-O-Writer, and then feed the tape into the machine's memory. I programmed mostly Fanuc, Pratt & Whitney, Cincinnati Milacron, Meldas CNC controls....... But by far my favorite control was a Seimens 7-M hooked up to an Acroloc Machining Center (2.5 sec. tool change -- lightning fast!). The features on the Siemens control that I liked most of all where the ability to put in variables, and to have the machining cycle jump around in the program anyway that you wanted to. These made programs very short and easy to understand and debug. It was what I would call "a programmer's control". Siemens came out with an 8-M control also, but almost nobody ordered them..... They were just too sophisticated for the average programmer. The Siemens mentality was so far beyond other control manufacturers mentalities. They built flexibility into their programming style that other MCU units just didn't have. I'm not surprised that this Siemens control is your favorite!
My last job as a journeyman manual machinist was at Allied Systems in Tualatin, OR. At age 70 then I got to see CNC equipment evolve to what I see now, totally mind blowing machining I have never seen before! Ha, my last machine was as horizontal boring mill. It was so warn out every bearing surface was out of tolerance years ago. Not all the speeds even worked! The spindle deflected as I bored out holes or milled. To counter this, I used hand ground high speed tool bits with radical angles to minimize push back hoping the tool would last the job to bore through without tool failure. That means low rpm and modest feed rates but peeling out steel with as deep a cut as I could make it. I always went to the lower end of tolerances, a total most of the time within 2 thou. If the hole was too small, I got out the air grinder and a flapper wheel to open up the bore, checking as I went to get it in tolerance. It was the complete opposite of what I see here! The company I worked for did not make enough profit to buy new, modern machines and the owners did not appreciate what a good machine could do to pay for itself. It was a dirty, grizzly, hard, back breaking job, but at 70, planters faciatis, hurting back, no air conditioning or heat, I got it done. There are so many smaller size businesses like this one. Before that I temped at ESCO, another grizzly job doing heavy lathe work. I am glad I am out of the trade. I went to school to learn CNC programming and operating, but no one would pay enough to support my family, so I was forced to stay in the manual side. Nice work, guys, I wish I was there!
I don't have much experience with the Siemens control personally. Like any control, they all have their quirks and the operator needs to spend enough time familiarizing themselves with the control. If the machine is dancing, the chips are falling, and profits are being made. Great video team!
@@ninjaabcde haha. I’m going to be real honest, it’s not likely. I work more closely with the team behind the scenes, serving our manufacturing community.
@@ninjaabcde I’m the Community Coordinator for TITANS of CNC. Judging by some of my responses, you can probably tell that I’ve worked with CNC machines in the past 🙂 Titan Blessed me with an opportunity to join the team.
10 years in the trade and almost exclusively been running old and brand new Okuma OSP machines which I like alot and for what it looks like quite similar to Siemens.
Seems to be an unpopular opinion in the feild , but I've always been a big fan of Mazatrol controls. Love the way it gives a nice template that will tell u if u have a issue so even with little experience u can easily write a program on the machine, while it also allows u to run G code for when u need to do more complicated 3d work.
Siemens has shopmill and shop turn which are easier to use than mazatrol. Also runs iso code just fine, and has a "macro" language that makes the Japanese controls look like Macintosh computers. They don't even compare.
i have been working with siemens 810D and 840D sl for over 15 years in germany. i think this control system is one of the best of all, next to Haidenhain. It is quite simple to understand and very easy to reproduce Solid Cam programmes. I love TITANS OF CNC in America. Greetings from a German fan
I think this is very cool. I am more or less a newer cnc machinist been only at it for 6 years after a long time as a welder. One of the first machines I had to learn how to use was an older Monarch Spinner using a Siemans setup but only setup for Germans called sinumerik. I was often lost at figuring out how to work the controls on this vertical and find it pretty crazy I had to learn the TSM on my own and other things to set things like my Z offsets. The place I was working at gave me mediocre instructions because they had their own way of making things "work" more or less and no harm there but I really wish I was able to learn that machine to its fullest potential. I am now in a world where a lot of fanucs are used as the the nc and control systems but we also added a communicative siemans Cin/Milcron Arrow to the shop, the fucking thing still runs on windows 98 and I really like the way it works, I would like it even more to have your set up for sure so thank you so much for showing me something pretty rad!
I've been working with heidenhain for a few years and i loved it. But i'm working on siemens controls now, and i have to say, that they are more powerful. parametric programs, loops and stuff are much easier to do. the only thing i hate on siemens is the limited memory in the NC-Area (mostly around 5MB).
Barry you missed the most important thing about the Siemens control and that is the conversational on machine programming ie: Shopmill and I’ve used it for over 12 years now and the time you save using will blow most people’s minds. Also what you can do in it is amazing.
I am not master of all controls but Haas can even have a video in program etc. And this pdf is good stuff, but is there method to find it if you have 1000 pdfs. Haas can also have option to engrave number of part and increase it by 1 for every part, get WCS in 180° arc (not full hole), but still can not get angle between 2 holes, like Siemens can. Heidenhain doesn't lose MDI data, once you leave it... Every control has something better than other, and once you start fully use that option you miss it on other more than you benefit from all other features. Mazatrol is apparently most advanced control, but it's only on mazak....
One of the fantastic features on the 840 shopmill control is the way it handles sister tooling allowing the machine to automatically swap over to a new tool after a given number of parts OR a given number of hours/minutes/seconds. The tool naming is in my opinion far superior to the old conventional tool number system. Absolutely THE best control i have used EVER, and i have a lot of experience in my 38 years in the industry with Hurco, Fanuc, Mazatrol, Fanuc Anilam and Heidenhein all heavily used by me and all inferior.
As someone that works for Siemens as a CNC machinist. It’s interesting no machine here uses Siemens control, we use primarily fanuc and a couple machines with (what I use) heidenhain
@@BobWidlefish not a clue. But the two Bridgeport machines I’m using have TNC370 on them. Which is about 20 years old. I think that says enough about the state of things😅
Ohhhhhhh that's so interesting!!! Edit: Sorry i included no context at all 😅 I'm a machining apprentice at the moment and just found that info to be super interesting 👍👍
That's because it is the same sinumeric,,,, I work on dmg dmc 60 dublock and on Hamuel reichenbacher 500hd and they have almost identical UI with few differences
Not much that is better than Heidenhain from the early 2000. And nothing that impressed me that much after working with a TNC 640 with touch and OCM packet. Sure the program edit on the fly is nice but I simulate everything for the next job while running the the last parts of the old one. The only thing I give it is the calculater. Heidenhain has one too but it has no "list", just one number.
I go TNC 150 had to hand input all programs by hand. Only way we had to transfer programs was free copy of TNC Remo ( if I am remembering it right. probity not.) programming software cost to much and was crap anyway.
@@kdenyer1 I dont know the 150 but I know the 155/355 and they are the archaic garbage Barry talked about. Im talking about the iTNC 530 and TNC 640. They are state of the art controls. I hope I can get my hands on the TNC 7 on the EMO next month.
From my own multus 4000 with the OSP 300 controller, there isnt much difference, but i would say getting a tool from the tool page on the siemens is better, still need to remember the tool number when i've found the tool i want in the list on the OSP... but the Okuma doesn't need homing and referencing when you turn on the machine... beside that, pretty much the same over all.
I love modern controls and all the functionality that comes with them, but I dont want newer controls to remove physical buttons the same way cars have done. I would rather have Function buttons around the screen and a full keyboard instead of in some sub-menu on the screen itself. Maybe thats just me
No its not just you. I hate controls without a keyboard too. Removing the function buttons around the screen and just having to touch the function that is on the edge control UI is okay imo, because it allows for beneficial manufacturer UI that can help you a lot, eg DMGs CELOS, but removing the keyboard or programming buttens is a nogo.
I think Fanuc is the most widely used control type and it is certainly the control type I've seen the most in my 13 years in the manufacturing industry. The company I work for does a lot of high volume production and Fanuc just works for most of our North American facilities. I know you see a lot more Siemens controllers on machines in Europe, Heller uses Siemens as do other brands from Europe.
I’ve just started in applications for a company and just only been exposed to the world of cnc milling like crazy. The machines we have at our showroom have Siemens 828D Control and wow it’s a breeze to program and set and operate. Fanuc manual guide feels prehistoric! I don’t want to go back to Fanuc now! These controls are so user friendly, also Siemens control on our machines are cheaper than the Fanuc controls. I know what I would choose if I wanted a new machine!
What's the Siemens control like for full 5-axis simultaneous work? Everyone I talk to tells me that Heidenhain is the best control when it comes to this, as it's the most powerful control, and therefore doesn't have any trouble processing the code. I even had someone tell me that they got rid of their Siemens machine and replaced it with a Heidenhain machine for this very reason (that's 10 yrs ago now though, so the Siemens may have improved) Our Fanuc controls doesn't like full 5-axis work. You have to really slow them down.... but i don't think anyone would argue that Fanuc is better than either Siemens or Heidenhain...
I have 3 machines with the 840D and yeah it's very intuitive. The only thing you explain kinda wrong is about the program name. you can't name them what ever you want... the name is limited to 28 digits 😁
Best thing is you can run Programms directly of a Network drive no need for a Thumb drive :) and to be precise its a 840D sl (Solution Line) older model was PL for Power Line
Control looks very similar to the OKUMS OSP300 Control. We have an OKUMA and love the control. Only real quirk is program file name is limited to 16 characters for wtv reason lol!
I work for Siemens machine shop and not 1 machine we have has a Siemens control. 😂 i would love to try one because it looks pretty similar to Okumas controls. Especially when getting programs . But Siemens control deff. Looks like it does even more. I love the canned cycle arrow portion.
I used to work with Hurco controls and they are very user friendly almost resembling some features of the Siemens controls. Now, unfortunately I have to work with 2018 Fanuc controls and it’s night and day. Everything is so involved on Fanuc controls from making a simple tool change to loading a program. I miss being able to go into the folder on the Hurco and just select the program and you probe the part, ready to go.
Its the best control. I use it for turning. you can write programms so fast, no control ever can do this in this time. in my opinion Celos from DMG Mori is one of the best Interfaces/ subcontrols with siemens 840d.
@@jessetonhauser3516 that's early true. Mazatrol have dialogue control yes. But the difference between this controls is the confort in so much points that Siemens have.
Hey Barry, it would be interesting to compare the possibilities of simulation on the machine control of the 840D with the Haidenhain tnc 640 on the ibarmia. I work with the tnc and i love the possibility to write a label for the raw stock. Greetings from Germany
Warum ein LBL für das Rohmaterial? Dafür gibt es doch die BLK Form. Oder meinst du Simulations schruppen für Halbfertigteile? Oder gibt es Funktionen fürs Rohmaterial die ich nicht kenne? O.o
@@TheDayzmanman kann auch Rotationssymetrische Rohteile mittels Label erstellen, wenn zB Drehteile mit komplexer geometrie schon vorgedreht sind oder das Rohteil eine nicht-Zylindrische Form hat.
Lol, we were just talking about this last week. The damn controls on HAAS suck on the new machines slow AF and they freeze up often. Then the Motoman board on one of our Amada robots using PCMCIA cards to store parameters, just getting those cards these days is a pain. That Siemens control is pretty slick, of course I would expect that on a high dig machine like a Heller. The only control that was ahead of it's time was on the old Cincinnati machines, similar to how that Siemens is, drag and drop files, running a Windows type of interface.
Almost every controllers have their pros and cons, the easiest controller to training people on is without doubt Heidenhain, also the quickest for programming on the work shop floor. A little bit awkward with system variabels, so when i do training and are programming on the shopfloor i prefer heidenhain, if i make macroes, using system variables etc, i prefer osp
I’ve used Mazatrol, MSX-501, Celos MAPPS, straight G code and Siemens 828D. And IMO Siemens would have to be the best. And then Mazatrol in second place.
that is just the tip of the iceberg. You can create your own cycles, loops, subprograms, if else conditions, define own variables (global and in cycles local), combine strings, while, repeat, when, sync different spindles and so on. you can do pretty much everything with this controller
@@boldlyspokennoah307 There's an entire community of retro enthusiasts that use bespoke little adapters that make working with them just that much easier. Gotek makes them.
The last company I was with had two brand new 5 axis Mazak lathes w/mazatrol and they were scared to touch them. Expensive paperweights. I did manage to dust off a few doosan slant turns and get them going and turning a profit. Sadly they got their PPP loan and 90% of the shop floor was laid off within two weeks.
Great video. Glad to see what Siemens is all about. Even though it looks nice and full of fun options. I don’t see it worth it here where I am as they have a bad reputation on support and machinists who know Siemens, Heiden, or mazatrol tend to expect better wage just for knowing the control even if less skillful. Fanuc , Yasnac, or Haas does the same result and more user friendly to change or modify the code on the machine. However IF you program on the controller; that could be a whole different discussion as I was told THATS where the power of these controls shines most. Or so I think anyways I could be wrong of course. But great video I love to be able to see how much Siemens evolved I remember it being a task to make a tool change on that control 20 or so years ago. 😂
Could not agree more, we have one 840D on a DMU50 and 2 other machines with Fanuc's, and i would literally go bankrupt with the Fanuc's alone. The 840d will show you how outdated almost all other controls really are. The 840d takes much much less time and the siemens support and online community is invaluable.
Half of the functions you showed are not exactly about siemens control. It's about heller machines. And this is why those controls are great. You don't have to, as an IEM control user, put your own interface on top of control, like in old fanuc controls. You can integrate functions you need inside the default hmi. And that flexibility is why those controls are amazing.
Siemens looks like a nice platform to work with! Can you also probe centrepoints between X+ and X- for example? Or level out a flat plane like Heidenhain 640 can do with plane spatial? These features are of extreme importance for the workpieces I make,
@@orze1191 that's great, thanks! Those probing sequences shown in this video made me a bit confused as to what else would be possible. But they can only put so much into a single video
Can you call pdf files as part of a program (eg call up an image as an instruction to the operator to take a manual measurements using a certain procedure)
Damn that is a really nice controller. You know what is great though, for being a "hobby" machine, I dont even like calling them that for how capable they are, but I really love pathpilot with tormach. I would say its easily the best controller software of its tier of machine. I know mach3 is capable but pathpilot is just so user friendly and intuitive. I hope fanuc starts upgrading their UI and getting more intuitive like the siemens because the next upgrade I plan to go from a tormach is a brother speedio and they all run on fanuc.
The one thing i dont like about modern maschines are touchscreens. Unless youre working under really clean conditions or wash your hands every 5 minutes you get dirty fingerprints all over the place.
Which leads to the next question: Let's say I've got a mill sitting on my floor that (1) was built during the Reagan Administration and (2) is older than any of my employees. The machine still runs profitably but I'd like to change to a better control. Can the 840D be retrofitted to it, or does the mill have to go too?
In my point of view, the best CNC controller depends on the kind of part you're going to machine. For example, for production parts, FANUC controller is faster than Siemens, but, if you work with aerospace parts and mold and die, Heidenhain is much better and has more features than Siemens. Just my point of view, but, at the end of the day, we need to do the best with the resource that we have. This is our life! LOL
Those "atari style" controllers are the best, it has no input lag, it has no bugs in software, you can do everything on keyboard pretty fast.....today CNC machines are terrible, it looks everything great only on paper, but in real life, it's better to program it on 20 years old machine. At least in woodworking where you mostly do pretty simple things and just type G code is much faster and easier than doing some CAD/CAM nonsenses. We have morbidelli machines and to work on new models is really pain, I feel always so relaxed when I can work on old machine once again because it always work, it's not showing nonsense errors and everything is simple, you want some basic milling, you just type "go from point A to pont B" and done, no stupid cad things like on moder machines, I totaly hate it. But I understand that you can't just type code directly for some 3D milling. Those wired controllers on modern machines.....it's such a pain, when I was testing some new program on old machine, I didn't need to watch controller, I just felt that I am moving with speed or RPM knob and it was always doing what it was supposed to do, on modern machine, when I want to paus program, I press it 10 times to be sure that machine really noticed that I pressed something. 😀 And speed gomb.....jesus, it has some acceleration, so more fast I move with that, more it change speed, so even when I watch that speed marker on display, it's really hard to set what you want there, it's everything delayed and responding weirdly. And I feel like I am only one person on this planet who is annoying that every modern stuff is like that, nobody cares, which is sad. It's the same even with "modern" cash desks in shops....it just doesn't work, it's slow, it's freezing, everyone is bothered, but nobody cares, they won't fix it becasue this is how it is. But I believe that german companies like Siemens are better, or at least I hope.
I really like Sinumerik for many reasons . But user interface is just a part of an NC. If you want to compare the performance of two nc's in terms of speed and accuracy you should run the same part on the same machine equipped with different controllers. There are also further aspects to take into account, such as hardware reilability, which is a real strenght of Fanuc. That said
I'm 65 years old, and I figure I'd need 1 to 4 weeks to get totally comfortable with that controller. What's the OS underneath Windows, or did the smarten up and go with SELinux? (DMG boots SELinux on their heidenhain (sp) controllers, with a python coded gui.)
That is an awesome control. Having developed many applications with gui’s to accommodate the general masses is a daunting task to say the least. You can tell a lot of thought went into designing this control. Man if I had that machine I don’t think I’d ever leave my shop. Wonder if you can watch YT in a PIP window . It does everything else it seems! As always I appreciate the awesome content you guys put out. Much love and gratitude. ❤💥
I started working on this control in 2010. and it was so amazing that my company purchased five more machines with same control.
It’s something we all complain about in this trade. How are the controls on million dollar machines less advanced than an Atari? It’s cool to see that a company out there is taking it to the next level! Hope to work on one soon
Now how long do we have to wsit
The TNC 7 Simulater needs 16GB of Ram. I could not find requirements for Siemens Sinumerik one because sadly they are locking it up behind a paywall.
And the graphics in both of them are probably 1000x better than a Atari because the simulation needs it.
@@TheDayzmani had the tnc7 installed but it was a pita to do because i had to install a kind of business virtualmachine with some special addon software and disable some windows features. I was kind of shocked when i saw the alerts in the top right corner because they look like some scam popups on websites^^
Me 2 and 3! I hope my company invests into some of these Heller machines cause they are definitely taking things to the next level!
I write CAM post processors for both Siemens 840D and Heidenhain control. I'd say both are equally as powerful, but Heidenhain is so much easier to work with from a code perspective. It's way more intuitive than Siemens. Plane spatial vs cycle 800 is one example. Heidenhain drilling cycles are also so much easier to set up and read.
Siemens has the same problem as fanuc, in that you can configure it 10,000 different ways, making troubleshooting post processors way more annoying than Heidenhain
Could you operate CNC with the other controllers the same way on Grinding/Additive/Multitasking/Millturn/Laser/Turnmill/Anytype possible technology machine tool?. With SINUMERIK you can do it.
That's why it's the most complex controller with the best performance you can achieve.
Heidenhain is built based on Linux and Seimens is on windows...sure now you know why
Heidenhain is way more easier to use.
If you write the prog on the machine Heidenhain is the way. All so simple and powerfull. In some cases is usefull to write a simple program on the machine. Heidenhain Klartext programming is so easy. I do that for over 6 years and was easy.
The best machine is a Hermle with a Heidenhain control. Nothing can beat that.
A Hermle is so powerfull and precise. It‘s so funny to work on it
I'm trying to get Camworks to post correctly for the Sinumerik 840D 5 axis gantry Zimmermann with A-C .. Lots of time invested so far to get any reults.
@@makro8218 howdy sir. Which is Better Hermle C series or Deckel Maho (DMG)?
Absolutely could not agree more! I’ve been using Siemens CNCs for more than 20 years, and I’ve always preferred them over any other. Even the old 840D PowerLine CNCs were far more powerful than most others today. Glad to see the rest of the world is finally catching up!
Good vid Barry. I ran a 2003 Giddings with the 840d and it's still my favorite control. Even back then, the control had most of the features you showed here. Two points I'd like to add:
1. Restarting is so easy and you can do it anywhere. The machine will find its way there.
2. The power of sinumerik for parametric programming. It makes the latest generation of Macro B look like an abacus by comparison. I have a couple fanuc 31i-B5 controls with iHMI and they don't wven compare.
I didnt like the calling tools by name instead of T number thing at first becouse i was used to the "old system", but now after using it for a while i love it.
A very comprehensive presentation on that Siemens controller.
I'm an electrician and I repair many different machines from different manufacturers and years of construction, no control was so simple and intuitive before. The graphical displays make it really easy to understand what the machine is doing with each command. Inserting a drilling cycle into a program is a matter of seconds, even if you've never done it before. Creating a workpiece and simulating the machining on the control is also super easy.
I have experience with both the Siemens 840 and the Heidenhein TNC640 systems. While both are excellent, I find the Heidenhein system a bit easier to use. It offers similar or even greater capabilities, and its touchscreen interface with larger buttons is better optimized compared to Siemens, where precise button presses can be challenging at least with my greasy fingers
i worked on both 2 for me the siemens is the easiest you will get. if you use it for cycles you can take a random person from the street and he can done a cycle with no problem
I work with hurco machines almost exclusively at my shop, and I have to say it's super user friendly and awesome to work with. Have any of you guys from Titans worked with those machines? To be honest it looks like of one the only controls that could give the Siemens a run for its money
i`ve been on the Siemens 828D for about 6 or so years, and for our application mainly multi start tapered thread ( new and repair), it has been amazing
This sounds like a terrific control. I'm an old retired manufacturing engineer who used to do manual programming on a Flex-O-Writer, and then feed the tape into the machine's memory. I programmed mostly Fanuc, Pratt & Whitney, Cincinnati Milacron, Meldas CNC controls....... But by far my favorite control was a Seimens 7-M hooked up to an Acroloc Machining Center (2.5 sec. tool change -- lightning fast!).
The features on the Siemens control that I liked most of all where the ability to put in variables, and to have the machining cycle jump around in the program anyway that you wanted to. These made programs very short and easy to understand and debug. It was what I would call "a programmer's control".
Siemens came out with an 8-M control also, but almost nobody ordered them..... They were just too sophisticated for the average programmer. The Siemens mentality was so far beyond other control manufacturers mentalities. They built flexibility into their programming style that other MCU units just didn't have.
I'm not surprised that this Siemens control is your favorite!
Once you go Siemens you never go back, waited for youse to show off some of the features can’t wait for more.
I have been using controls for several years including haas fanuc siemens 810 and more and I definitely prefer the mazak smooth range over all
My last job as a journeyman manual machinist was at Allied Systems in Tualatin, OR. At age 70 then I got to see CNC equipment evolve to what I see now, totally mind blowing machining I have never seen before! Ha, my last machine was as horizontal boring mill. It was so warn out every bearing surface was out of tolerance years ago. Not all the speeds even worked! The spindle deflected as I bored out holes or milled. To counter this, I used hand ground high speed tool bits with radical angles to minimize push back hoping the tool would last the job to bore through without tool failure. That means low rpm and modest feed rates but peeling out steel with as deep a cut as I could make it. I always went to the lower end of tolerances, a total most of the time within 2 thou. If the hole was too small, I got out the air grinder and a flapper wheel to open up the bore, checking as I went to get it in tolerance. It was the complete opposite of what I see here! The company I worked for did not make enough profit to buy new, modern machines and the owners did not appreciate what a good machine could do to pay for itself. It was a dirty, grizzly, hard, back breaking job, but at 70, planters faciatis, hurting back, no air conditioning or heat, I got it done. There are so many smaller size businesses like this one. Before that I temped at ESCO, another grizzly job doing heavy lathe work. I am glad I am out of the trade. I went to school to learn CNC programming and operating, but no one would pay enough to support my family, so I was forced to stay in the manual side. Nice work, guys, I wish I was there!
I don't have much experience with the Siemens control personally. Like any control, they all have their quirks and the operator needs to spend enough time familiarizing themselves with the control. If the machine is dancing, the chips are falling, and profits are being made. Great video team!
when will we see a vid of you talking :) ?
@@ninjaabcde haha. I’m going to be real honest, it’s not likely. I work more closely with the team behind the scenes, serving our manufacturing community.
@@Sara-TOC cool. What do you do?
@@ninjaabcde I’m the Community Coordinator for TITANS of CNC. Judging by some of my responses, you can probably tell that I’ve worked with CNC machines in the past 🙂 Titan Blessed me with an opportunity to join the team.
10 years in the trade and almost exclusively been running old and brand new Okuma OSP machines which I like alot and for what it looks like quite similar to Siemens.
OSPis the best modern control in my humble opinion.
I Love the Siemens controls because they offer simple userfriendly controls with all the Bells and whistles you need for optimal producing.
Seems to be an unpopular opinion in the feild , but I've always been a big fan of Mazatrol controls. Love the way it gives a nice template that will tell u if u have a issue so even with little experience u can easily write a program on the machine, while it also allows u to run G code for when u need to do more complicated 3d work.
Siemens has shopmill and shop turn which are easier to use than mazatrol. Also runs iso code just fine, and has a "macro" language that makes the Japanese controls look like Macintosh computers. They don't even compare.
@@steelwheelsminnesotawould be interesting to check that out mazatrol is definitely gravy compared to Mori’s MAAPS conversational programing
i have been working with siemens 810D and 840D sl for over 15 years in germany. i think this control system is one of the best of all, next to Haidenhain. It is quite simple to understand and very easy to reproduce Solid Cam programmes. I love TITANS OF CNC in America. Greetings from a German fan
I think this is very cool. I am more or less a newer cnc machinist been only at it for 6 years after a long time as a welder. One of the first machines I had to learn how to use was an older Monarch Spinner using a Siemans setup but only setup for Germans called sinumerik. I was often lost at figuring out how to work the controls on this vertical and find it pretty crazy I had to learn the TSM on my own and other things to set things like my Z offsets. The place I was working at gave me mediocre instructions because they had their own way of making things "work" more or less and no harm there but I really wish I was able to learn that machine to its fullest potential. I am now in a world where a lot of fanucs are used as the the nc and control systems but we also added a communicative siemans Cin/Milcron Arrow to the shop, the fucking thing still runs on windows 98 and I really like the way it works, I would like it even more to have your set up for sure so thank you so much for showing me something pretty rad!
I wish you guys would put machining THIS part in a playlist. I been trying to keep up with it. Super cool
At 5:14 you dont need to put in tool name again if you want to run the spindle :D just type in desire RPM and you good to go. ;)
Heidenhain is the best cnc control. even dmg mori uses it in their own machines/plant
I've been working with heidenhain for a few years and i loved it. But i'm working on siemens controls now, and i have to say, that they are more powerful. parametric programs, loops and stuff are much easier to do. the only thing i hate on siemens is the limited memory in the NC-Area (mostly around 5MB).
Use instead the NC-Extended Memory (system-Disk). Today, there's for most users no difference in speed of data transfer.
Barry you missed the most important thing about the Siemens control and that is the conversational on machine programming ie: Shopmill and I’ve used it for over 12 years now and the time you save using will blow most people’s minds.
Also what you can do in it is amazing.
YASSS CONTROL GREATNESS!
Hi Barry. I use sinumerik 808 advanced
Great video Barry! I would agree. My favorite control as well.
I use this control everyday and it's definitely the best
I am not master of all controls but Haas can even have a video in program etc. And this pdf is good stuff, but is there method to find it if you have 1000 pdfs. Haas can also have option to engrave number of part and increase it by 1 for every part, get WCS in 180° arc (not full hole), but still can not get angle between 2 holes, like Siemens can. Heidenhain doesn't lose MDI data, once you leave it... Every control has something better than other, and once you start fully use that option you miss it on other more than you benefit from all other features. Mazatrol is apparently most advanced control, but it's only on mazak....
One of the fantastic features on the 840 shopmill control is the way it handles sister tooling allowing the machine to automatically swap over to a new tool after a given number of parts OR a given number of hours/minutes/seconds. The tool naming is in my opinion far superior to the old conventional tool number system.
Absolutely THE best control i have used EVER, and i have a lot of experience in my 38 years in the industry with Hurco, Fanuc, Mazatrol, Fanuc Anilam and Heidenhein all heavily used by me and all inferior.
Controllers are a fascinating subject! The Siemens has a nice, clean layout. Very cool!
I agree, Siemens are the best controls, very user-friendly and intuitive, very powerful as well. Great showcase video!
As someone that works for Siemens as a CNC machinist. It’s interesting no machine here uses Siemens control, we use primarily fanuc and a couple machines with (what I use) heidenhain
Why not use the in house?
@@BobWidlefish not a clue. But the two Bridgeport machines I’m using have TNC370 on them. Which is about 20 years old. I think that says enough about the state of things😅
Ohhhhhhh that's so interesting!!!
Edit: Sorry i included no context at all 😅 I'm a machining apprentice at the moment and just found that info to be super interesting 👍👍
Interest to know what siemens you work at?
The UI looks like the one we have on our DMG CLX 350. Its an awesome and very intuitive UI to work with.
That's because it is the same sinumeric,,,, I work on dmg dmc 60 dublock and on Hamuel reichenbacher 500hd and they have almost identical UI with few differences
I worked on 840d but i like Heidenhain TNC 640 more. I'm looking forward into trying TNC 7
The TNC7 is the newest Heidenhain
Not much that is better than Heidenhain from the early 2000.
And nothing that impressed me that much after working with a TNC 640 with touch and OCM packet.
Sure the program edit on the fly is nice but I simulate everything for the next job while running the the last parts of the old one. The only thing I give it is the calculater. Heidenhain has one too but it has no "list", just one number.
I go TNC 150 had to hand input all programs by hand. Only way we had to transfer programs was free copy of TNC Remo ( if I am remembering it right. probity not.) programming software cost to much and was crap anyway.
@@kdenyer1 I dont know the 150 but I know the 155/355 and they are the archaic garbage Barry talked about. Im talking about the iTNC 530 and TNC 640. They are state of the art controls. I hope I can get my hands on the TNC 7 on the EMO next month.
You can run simulations of other programs as well while the machine is running other stuff.
@@nils2618 That is exactly what I do
From my own multus 4000 with the OSP 300 controller, there isnt much difference, but i would say getting a tool from the tool page on the siemens is better, still need to remember the tool number when i've found the tool i want in the list on the OSP... but the Okuma doesn't need homing and referencing when you turn on the machine... beside that, pretty much the same over all.
I love modern controls and all the functionality that comes with them, but I dont want newer controls to remove physical buttons the same way cars have done. I would rather have Function buttons around the screen and a full keyboard instead of in some sub-menu on the screen itself. Maybe thats just me
No its not just you. I hate controls without a keyboard too. Removing the function buttons around the screen and just having to touch the function that is on the edge control UI is okay imo, because it allows for beneficial manufacturer UI that can help you a lot, eg DMGs CELOS, but removing the keyboard or programming buttens is a nogo.
Definitely not just you. Physical controls will always be superior
We use 840D at my work its so good, we do some really precise work with it
I have 30 years of experience with many different CNC controls. My ranking: 1. Siemens, 2. Haidenhein, 3. Fanuc.
I think Fanuc is the most widely used control type and it is certainly the control type I've seen the most in my 13 years in the manufacturing industry. The company I work for does a lot of high volume production and Fanuc just works for most of our North American facilities. I know you see a lot more Siemens controllers on machines in Europe, Heller uses Siemens as do other brands from Europe.
We also do a lot of high volume production where I work here in England. 18/20 machine here running Fanuc too
my shop in the northeastern US is about 50/50 fanuc and okuma
Love running 840D, once I got used to it I never want to run anything else.
I’ve just started in applications for a company and just only been exposed to the world of cnc milling like crazy.
The machines we have at our showroom have Siemens 828D Control and wow it’s a breeze to program and set and operate. Fanuc manual guide feels prehistoric!
I don’t want to go back to Fanuc now! These controls are so user friendly, also Siemens control on our machines are cheaper than the Fanuc controls. I know what I would choose if I wanted a new machine!
Sinumerik 840d is best cnc controller i ever worked!
What's the Siemens control like for full 5-axis simultaneous work? Everyone I talk to tells me that Heidenhain is the best control when it comes to this, as it's the most powerful control, and therefore doesn't have any trouble processing the code. I even had someone tell me that they got rid of their Siemens machine and replaced it with a Heidenhain machine for this very reason (that's 10 yrs ago now though, so the Siemens may have improved)
Our Fanuc controls doesn't like full 5-axis work. You have to really slow them down.... but i don't think anyone would argue that Fanuc is better than either Siemens or Heidenhain...
now compare it to Heidenhain ITNC 640 xD still my favourite
heidenhain is better.
PLEASE MAKE VIDEO REGARDING HIEDENHAIN CONTROL
Jea for our one of parts and this is the best control in my opinion itnc640❤
I have 3 machines with the 840D and yeah it's very intuitive. The only thing you explain kinda wrong is about the program name. you can't name them what ever you want... the name is limited to 28 digits 😁
only thing i dislike is the onscreen keyboard, i like my physical keys but other than that 840d is a bliss to work with
Best thing is you can run Programms directly of a Network drive no need for a Thumb drive :) and to be precise its a 840D sl (Solution Line) older model was PL for Power Line
The most intuitive UI for a CNC I have seen, is the one Datron has.
100 % agree. This just looks outdated in comparison
Control looks very similar to the OKUMS OSP300 Control. We have an OKUMA and love the control. Only real quirk is program file name is limited to 16 characters for wtv reason lol!
I work for Siemens machine shop and not 1 machine we have has a Siemens control. 😂 i would love to try one because it looks pretty similar to Okumas controls. Especially when getting programs .
But Siemens control deff. Looks like it does even more. I love the canned cycle arrow portion.
I used to work with Hurco controls and they are very user friendly almost resembling some features of the Siemens controls. Now, unfortunately I have to work with 2018 Fanuc controls and it’s night and day. Everything is so involved on Fanuc controls from making a simple tool change to loading a program. I miss being able to go into the folder on the Hurco and just select the program and you probe the part, ready to go.
Its the best control. I use it for turning. you can write programms so fast, no control ever can do this in this time. in my opinion Celos from DMG Mori is one of the best Interfaces/ subcontrols with siemens 840d.
yeah i can only agree, work on am DMU 75 Monoblock and it is amazing.
I’d argue the same for Mazatrol. It’s so damn fast for writing any type of unit.
@@jessetonhauser3516 that's early true. Mazatrol have dialogue control yes. But the difference between this controls is the confort in so much points that Siemens have.
Hey Barry, it would be interesting to compare the possibilities of simulation on the machine control of the 840D with the Haidenhain tnc 640 on the ibarmia. I work with the tnc and i love the possibility to write a label for the raw stock. Greetings from Germany
Warum ein LBL für das Rohmaterial? Dafür gibt es doch die BLK Form. Oder meinst du Simulations schruppen für Halbfertigteile?
Oder gibt es Funktionen fürs Rohmaterial die ich nicht kenne? O.o
@@TheDayzmanman kann auch Rotationssymetrische Rohteile mittels Label erstellen, wenn zB Drehteile mit komplexer geometrie schon vorgedreht sind oder das Rohteil eine nicht-Zylindrische Form hat.
@@ipadize Danke die Funktion hatte ich nicht auf dem Schirm. Hab leider nicht so lange an der 640 gearbeitet.
Deutschland jaaaaa
@@ipadizekönntest du kurz erklären wie das funktioniert?
Barrymetric Therapy on a Tuesday…..perfect
Lol, we were just talking about this last week. The damn controls on HAAS suck on the new machines slow AF and they freeze up often. Then the Motoman board on one of our Amada robots using PCMCIA cards to store parameters, just getting those cards these days is a pain. That Siemens control is pretty slick, of course I would expect that on a high dig machine like a Heller. The only control that was ahead of it's time was on the old Cincinnati machines, similar to how that Siemens is, drag and drop files, running a Windows type of interface.
Almost every controllers have their pros and cons, the easiest controller to training people on is without doubt Heidenhain, also the quickest for programming on the work shop floor.
A little bit awkward with system variabels, so when i do training and are programming on the shopfloor i prefer heidenhain, if i make macroes, using system variables etc, i prefer osp
I’ve used Mazatrol, MSX-501, Celos MAPPS, straight G code and Siemens 828D. And IMO Siemens would have to be the best. And then Mazatrol in second place.
These controls are so far advanced from punched tape I used in college. It’s like living in a since fiction world.😊
that is just the tip of the iceberg.
You can create your own cycles, loops, subprograms, if else conditions, define own variables (global and in cycles local), combine strings, while, repeat, when, sync different spindles and so on.
you can do pretty much everything with this controller
or use .arc files to automatically import several programs and subprograms to a defined folder
Im Working with Heidenhain 530 &640 and I like them more than Simens control
Great video. I haven’t seen anybody show how to use a controller before. Everybody just asu es that you know how to use it.
You don't need to select the tool in the TSM menu to use the s function to let it rotate. If the tool is loaded into the spindle thats enough.
No joke at the shop I’m at we have a Haas that runs on floppy disk. It’s honestly an amazing machine and holds great tolerance but runs on floppy
There's drop in floppy drive emulators out there that take USB.
@@No-mq5lw yooo what
@@boldlyspokennoah307 There's an entire community of retro enthusiasts that use bespoke little adapters that make working with them just that much easier.
Gotek makes them.
The last company I was with had two brand new 5 axis Mazak lathes w/mazatrol and they were scared to touch them. Expensive paperweights. I did manage to dust off a few doosan slant turns and get them going and turning a profit. Sadly they got their PPP loan and 90% of the shop floor was laid off within two weeks.
Great video. Glad to see what Siemens is all about. Even though it looks nice and full of fun options. I don’t see it worth it here where I am as they have a bad reputation on support and machinists who know Siemens, Heiden, or mazatrol tend to expect better wage just for knowing the control even if less skillful. Fanuc , Yasnac, or Haas does the same result and more user friendly to change or modify the code on the machine. However IF you program on the controller; that could be a whole different discussion as I was told THATS where the power of these controls shines most. Or so I think anyways I could be wrong of course. But great video I love to be able to see how much Siemens evolved I remember it being a task to make a tool change on that control 20 or so years ago. 😂
Siemens is the best in every industrial field :) It must be because I work there :D
Could not agree more, we have one 840D on a DMU50 and 2 other machines with Fanuc's, and i would literally go bankrupt with the Fanuc's alone. The 840d will show you how outdated almost all other controls really are. The 840d takes much much less time and the siemens support and online community is invaluable.
Half of the functions you showed are not exactly about siemens control. It's about heller machines.
And this is why those controls are great. You don't have to, as an IEM control user, put your own interface on top of control, like in old fanuc controls. You can integrate functions you need inside the default hmi. And that flexibility is why those controls are amazing.
Siemens is probably the only other control i would work with (i only work with Heidenhain atm)
Sei doch froh
I used Siemens. I used Mitsubishi. I used fanuc. the best control fanuc. easy and practical.
Obviously I'm biased from running Heidenhein for most of my career but watching this I'd still prefer it...Although Siemens does look very similar
Siemens looks like a nice platform to work with! Can you also probe centrepoints between X+ and X- for example? Or level out a flat plane like Heidenhain 640 can do with plane spatial? These features are of extreme importance for the workpieces I make,
Of course you can do it and even way more beyond that.
@@orze1191 that's great, thanks! Those probing sequences shown in this video made me a bit confused as to what else would be possible. But they can only put so much into a single video
Great video. Keep ‘em coming.
Can you call pdf files as part of a program (eg call up an image as an instruction to the operator to take a manual measurements using a certain procedure)
Damn that is a really nice controller. You know what is great though, for being a "hobby" machine, I dont even like calling them that for how capable they are, but I really love pathpilot with tormach. I would say its easily the best controller software of its tier of machine. I know mach3 is capable but pathpilot is just so user friendly and intuitive. I hope fanuc starts upgrading their UI and getting more intuitive like the siemens because the next upgrade I plan to go from a tormach is a brother speedio and they all run on fanuc.
The one thing i dont like about modern maschines are touchscreens. Unless youre working under really clean conditions or wash your hands every 5 minutes you get dirty fingerprints all over the place.
Which leads to the next question:
Let's say I've got a mill sitting on my floor that (1) was built during the Reagan Administration and (2) is older than any of my employees. The machine still runs profitably but I'd like to change to a better control. Can the 840D be retrofitted to it, or does the mill have to go too?
there are way to retro a siemens on the machine. there are are a lot of variables
In my point of view, the best CNC controller depends on the kind of part you're going to machine. For example, for production parts, FANUC controller is faster than Siemens, but, if you work with aerospace parts and mold and die, Heidenhain is much better and has more features than Siemens.
Just my point of view, but, at the end of the day, we need to do the best with the resource that we have.
This is our life! LOL
I like Siemens 840d sl controller with dmg Mori machine
Never used this type of control before. Seems just as user friendly and the newer heidenhain touch screen.
Those "atari style" controllers are the best, it has no input lag, it has no bugs in software, you can do everything on keyboard pretty fast.....today CNC machines are terrible, it looks everything great only on paper, but in real life, it's better to program it on 20 years old machine. At least in woodworking where you mostly do pretty simple things and just type G code is much faster and easier than doing some CAD/CAM nonsenses. We have morbidelli machines and to work on new models is really pain, I feel always so relaxed when I can work on old machine once again because it always work, it's not showing nonsense errors and everything is simple, you want some basic milling, you just type "go from point A to pont B" and done, no stupid cad things like on moder machines, I totaly hate it. But I understand that you can't just type code directly for some 3D milling.
Those wired controllers on modern machines.....it's such a pain, when I was testing some new program on old machine, I didn't need to watch controller, I just felt that I am moving with speed or RPM knob and it was always doing what it was supposed to do, on modern machine, when I want to paus program, I press it 10 times to be sure that machine really noticed that I pressed something. 😀 And speed gomb.....jesus, it has some acceleration, so more fast I move with that, more it change speed, so even when I watch that speed marker on display, it's really hard to set what you want there, it's everything delayed and responding weirdly. And I feel like I am only one person on this planet who is annoying that every modern stuff is like that, nobody cares, which is sad. It's the same even with "modern" cash desks in shops....it just doesn't work, it's slow, it's freezing, everyone is bothered, but nobody cares, they won't fix it becasue this is how it is.
But I believe that german companies like Siemens are better, or at least I hope.
I really like Sinumerik for many reasons . But user interface is just a part of an NC. If you want to compare the performance of two nc's in terms of speed and accuracy you should run the same part on the same machine equipped with different controllers. There are also further aspects to take into account, such as hardware reilability, which is a real strenght of Fanuc. That said
I'm 65 years old, and I figure I'd need 1 to 4 weeks to get totally comfortable with that controller. What's the OS underneath Windows, or did the smarten up and go with SELinux? (DMG boots SELinux on their heidenhain (sp) controllers, with a python coded gui.)
Edge Precision spotted!
That’s what I was gonna comment on!
Initialy I was trained on Siemens Sinumerik 840D. Now I work on Fanuc. There is no doubt. Siemens is way better.
That is an awesome control. Having developed many applications with gui’s to accommodate the general masses is a daunting task to say the least. You can tell a lot of thought went into designing this control. Man if I had that machine I don’t think I’d ever leave my shop. Wonder if you can watch YT in a PIP window . It does everything else it seems! As always I appreciate the awesome content you guys put out. Much love and gratitude. ❤💥
What about a C.O.R.E. panel from UGG?
with the controls so easy and intuitive... can you explain to a noob as myself - how did you turn a drill insert into stardust accidentally? :D
I prefer Heidenhain controller
Siemens best command 😍
Can you do a video on spline cutting with a lathe
Please do more on this subjeckt
What's the difference between the first align edge and the second align edge in probing cycles?
Try swiss turning on Mitsubishi controls :D thats fun