Just be careful this doesn’t go into helicopter parenting territory. Oh but you’re a leftist so you don’t believe in moderation for this kind of thing I forgot
Usually the line is "raising girls is easier until puberty" because they associate their little boys with being messy and chaotic and their little girls being sweet and quiet (despite both of those things being their fault). Then during puberty they have to go to war to defend her virginity so now suddenly it's easier to just raise a son who does the womanizing himself.
A thing I've noticed among guys is ironic homoeroticism. Like when guys want to tell their male friends that they like them a lot, instead of just saying it they go over the top and get ironically homoerotic about it (like in terms of what they say, not what they do). I think it's to avoid the vulnerability of sincerely expressing affection for another man, while still doing so. Women don't do this in my experience, they just say that they care about each other. I could be completely off base, this is anecdotal after all.
No I live in Austria and it's exactly the same, in fact that's what I do personally. But I completely disagree that this "avoids" showing genuine affection. You are working off the notion that in order to successfully communicate affection, you have to say it point blank in an almost autistic, mechanical kind of way. Sure this is probably good every once in a while, but there are a lot of ways to communicate subtly, yet still unambiguously that we love each other dearly. There's nothing wrong with that
@@resir9807 Oh then I probably miscommunicated my point. I think it is a genuine attempt to show affection, but also trying to avoid the vulnerability of showing genuine affection, if that distinction makes sense? Like the ironic homoeroticism is said as a joke and can be played off as one, but at its core it's still someone saying "I care about you". Not to contradict your own experience, though.
@@tombouric No, I think I understood it wrong. But in that case, I don't really understand the value of that kind of vulnerability, if we agree that the mutual understanding that we love each other is already there. I don't know why, but ironically, the ironic homoeroticism feels more sincere. Because anybody can lie and say they love you (it's actually crazy to me how casually people in the US say it), but joking about your homie's balls takes a lot of balls on its own. And a toxic dude I don't want to associate with could never act homoerotically.
@@resir9807 That last point is true yeah. I guess in my head I was thinking of it in terms of trying to pass it as a joke. Like "Haha, I'd never actually do that, that's why it's funny" kinda deal.
You know what, one of my teachers from Uni is essentially studying what Vaush is saying for their thesis. And I swear to god they were talking about Jo cat as an example.
@@Echo81Rumple83I subscribed to Jocat just out of spite towards the people harassing him at the time. I find it very pathetic that people took a video that at best probably made them feel uncomfortable so seriously that they felt the need to do a harassment campaign towards the guy. What a bloody joke.
As a straight guy that tries to be emotionally expressive and direct - my social media is clogged with takes like these. So it's hard to express myself in any way that might be perceived as inconvenient or requiring emotional labor to support - I feel like I've already exhausted everyone around me just by existing. A lot of men "suffer in silence" because they're convinced they'll just get booed out of the room.
Gotta have a balance. Time around friends cannot always be sharing negativity otherwise that does get draining, but real friends want to talk about shit usually so that they can help. A friend isn't a therapist, and they might get frustrated if they offer advice and you never seem to listen or take it, but try not to shut yourself down. Easier said than done I know. I catch myself doing the same thing. But it's actually a pretty shitty way to treat friends, always assuming the worst and never thinking they'll understand or want to support you. If I think about it that way it helps.
The same as every other social rule, having feelings as a guy is usually shamed. Both men and women shame men. Even if they can imagine an emotional guy as a good thing, when they actually see it they assume the worst. There are certain pre-made rationalizations, but deeper down people internalize a certain emotional reaction, and that emotional reaction can work with a variety of supposed reasons. Women claim that the problem is that men trauma dump to strangers, I believe that, but I think it is also true that it feels extra inappropriate when a man does it, because there is that little patriachal voice claiming that men are supposed to be stoic.
Sometimes they do get booed out of the room. By other men AND by women. I think there's no quick and easy solve, gender dynamics are in a weird place right now and will continue to be. Also there are so many different types of social settings and relationships. Heart on your sleeve isn't always the move.
Far too many people who claim to want men to be more earnest and sincere, see men who are that and think they're gay, or are just annoyed and put off by it. The call is coming from inside the house.
This is honestly the reason why I absolutely hate it when Vaush says that Jocat is "gay for women." We tell men to be more open and honest with their feelings but when they are they get called gay by both the left and the right. The left just thinks it's okay when they do it because they think adding a positive connotation makes it okay.
You're right to an extent. Everyone has internalized the message then men need to be emotionally distant even if it fuck over everyone. But lets be honest here, a lot of the people who are the most shitty about this are heterosexual hyper-masculine motherfuckers who think their lack of emotional maturity makes them better men. And rest of us that don't speak out because society tells us that they're right. That being said since we have all internalized this, a lot of people are complaining before having any solid way forward- which I mean culture doesn't change overnight we do all need to work on this. But I'd saw the worst offenders here are not the people who realize this is a problem.
Ironic detachment is something we need to talk about more as a society. Whenever im with a group of guy friends i swear 95% of the time its just the fellas going person to person making light of everything, even when im trying to have a serious intellectual discussion it gets derailed by this male ironic detachment shit
My guy friends clam up and shut the conversation down when I try to speak seriously or sincerely to them about things. The only thing they ever want to talk about with me is video games. So that's what I talk to them about, and that's it. I don't try to go any deeper with them anymore because it isn't welcome.
Use video-games as a way to talk about those things. In a subtle way at the beginning and getting deeper later. Many games have underlying psychological messaging and many people use video-games as a way to vent their inner frustrations.
i had a few really awesome guy friends growing up and they deadass spoiled me. because now as an adult i try talking to guys with dating potential and keep being disappointed 😭 its just like you said, shallow topics only and god help me if the video game they like isnt minecraft lmaooo
I feel like a lot of men have trauma around emotional openness, trusting the wrong person, getting your heart broken, that kinda shit does terrible things to your ability to really trust somebody enough to be open with them.
When I was younger I was always shut down from my mum telling me to stop crying because “I’m a man”, while my sister was able to be open and vulnerable all the time. The problem is people reinforcing toxic masculinity on young men which causes them to see other alternatives like right wing groups who exploit those emotional vulnerabilities.
Yeah, people *say* they want men to be open and vulnerable and honest, but just try doing it and watch what happens. For all of their supposed emotional sophistication most women just don't know how to handle it when a man actually does this - and that's the best case scenario. It's certainly been my own experience that being vulnerable is, shall we say, not rewarded. For instance, just look at the s**t storm that followed sh0eonhead when she dared to so much as acknowledge that a lot of men are lonely and it hurts.
@@rdormerNo joke, we give women too much credit for emotional intelligence. I've had so many women tell me about their bitchy little catfights and the rampant jealousy of each other. A lot of male lack of confidence and social skills comes from learning to take bs from women and being told that this is the right way because they're more mature and social. Like, I have rarely seen men ostrecize as viciously as women do, or treat guys with disrespect for hitting on them respectfully. Necessary addendum that I do in fact love women, and have many wonderful female friends who are nothing like that
@@kylemaljevac5482 Bruh that's almost 1:1 my experience minus the sister thing cause i never had any siblings. When i was super young and i cried about anything or got really upset over something, my mom's way of consoling me was to tell me "men don't cry silly stop it right now" so eventually i just became quiet with everyone, still am but now more in a "i don't care about what others are thinking and i don't have to share anything with them anyway" kind of way.
As a trans woman who recently ish went to a boys school I can confirm. Irony posoining and video games are their main forms of communication (next to talking about studying ofc, it was an academic school). I feel like straight norms have prevented guys from being normal because of all the restrictive ideas (whether it's about women, being close to other guys etc).
The fact that people ridicule and laugh at you for having depression is something we ALL need to talk about. It isn’t funny. Depression is real and the fact that so many are choosing to keep it within is simply disturbing.
We're obliged to be ready to face death. The death of dreams, ego death, even soul death, if physical death is not imminent. Depression feels like a fulfillment of that primitive obligation. It is proof of weakness, and it is also the wages of weakness. How perfect, how cleansing, how holy...even as it destroys us.
Despite being a woman, emotional neglect gave me traits found in toxic masculinity. It has cost me relationships with men and women. Men get pissed that I give them the same withering reactions their man friends have over something that should be taken seriously, and women weren’t equip to navigate my emotional unavailability when I have my backslide moments. Case and point I broke up with my last boyfriend and he wanted advice to impress another woman, I stared and went “uuuuh.” He wheeled back with “nah I can’t ask you. You aren’t a normal woman.” I mean he was right but it still hurt. And if you left me outside I’d start digging for cool shit, my role in Minecraft is being a human mole.
Honestly the key is to just stop giving a sh*t. People who "play games" about social interactions whether dating or platonic are a waste of time and not worth yours. Be honest, up front, and happy. The rest will follow.
This is true. One of the things that made my girlfriend first have a crush on me was my open sincerity and openness to being vulnerable. Forget playing these silly social games, just be unapologetically you and take the shot, and odds are better that it'll work!
This is true but we are social animals and if we experience nothing but rejection within our community, we will objectively physically and psychologically suffer. It is HIGH stakes
The greatest hitter in major league baseball history - Ted Williams - FAILED to reach base more than half the time and failed to get a hit over 65% of the time. Get over yourself bro.... and I mean that in the nicest and most supportive way possible@@KayosHybrid
Usually they’ve been burned for being emotionally vulnerable. People don’t act certain ways for no reason. There is active discouragement and shaming that men tend to get for that. Also as a gay man, I don’t want to be someone “gay best friend”. I’m just a person, I’m not a stereotype or something to be used.
@@ianwazowski5607 that probably means different things to different people. Feminist has become a loaded term, though I believe in equal rights so by the definition I know, I would be a feminist.
@@ianwazowski5607 BLM is a bad example, because it's not really an ambiguous term. Whereas both socialism and feminism have very broad highly contested definitions. For a lot of people, nothing short of common property over the means of production can be socialism. Thus they see Bernie Sanders as nothing more than a wishy washy capitalist. For others, socialism is "when the goverment does stuff" and Bernie Sanders might as well be Stalin.
My husband and I got together in high school. His family was/is extremely emotionally unintelligent and he’s been learning how to properly express himself. That being said, he’s on the spectrum and has been extremely open to learning how to be himself and express how he feels. His brother, on the other hand, is nearly all the negative guy tropes and is soooooo awful to deal with. He’s alright in short bursts like parties or playing games every now and then, but he tends to use me as a free therapist, even though he’s in therapy! It’s insane
I never understood the "guys can't be friends with girls" thing. I've always got along with women as a straight guy, and sometimes I prefer their friendship. My guy friends are fucking weird, it's like a whole different social ritual, whereas with women, it's usually pretty straightforward. That's kinda why I'm glad I'm heterosexual, I've never had a tumultuous relationship or a relationship with someone who wouldn't simply express their feelings.
For how much people typically talk about women being fake and guys being more direct, guys (especially straight ones) engage in an incredible amount of cringy posturing, fake stoicism and constant ironic detachment to hide vulnerability and project dominance. Just go to any gym and observe. It's everywhere.
Last time a girl messaged me we texted for about an hour after she asked I was super open and honest about why I’m generally a shy person and need to work on my confidence apparently I over shared because she asked me if I was high and became super awkward after that point (then never messaged me again) None of this is to contradict u I think most guys are emotionally immature I just think it’s kinda funny that I’m emotionally immature in basically the opposite way The irony that I’m kinda over sharing here is not lost on me lol
Regarding Autism/Men: I am autistic, and I consider myself to be VASTLY more open and honest about my emotions than other men around me, and I think it’s because I just wasn’t in school on the day that they told they boys that being emotionally stunted was an important part of living in modern society. Genuinely baffles me that people don’t want to talk about their emotions. I mean, sometimes I don’t know what emotion I’m having, but by god am I gonna talk your ear off about it until you tell me to shut up or redirect me with a shiny object/special interest.
This bit reminds of a lesson from my former warehouse supervisor, it was "Closed mouth don't get fed" (though it was about getting a raise lol). I've applied that to my life about being open about how I feel with other people in my social group because people can't read minds. People can't help ya if they don't know what's going on with ya. Don't suffer in silence.
Agreed. This is one of those things that guys learn from experience. Most of us do not learn this from male role models, growing up. I'll be 41 next month. And it took me until I was in my mid 20's. To begin to mature emotionally. Even then I don't think that I will ever be a "feels" guy in public. And I know that it's because of how I was brought up.
People express emotional immaturity in a lot of ways, and a big one for guys can be leaning way too hard into the gendered expectations to not express or acknowledge feelings.
Emotional immaturity is almost by definition a lack of impulse control. Remember, the default is to show emotion: otherwise babies would die from neglect. You have to be taught to pillar all the time, but the subsequent nervous breakdowns are completely organic. I'll put it as simply as possible: if a man is not showing emotion, it is by deliberate effort. Why make that effort? Gendered expectations. Thinking that gendered expectations are just an excuse makes absolutely no sense. What other reason is there for not expressing what's inside? You sound like a right-winger dismissing the link between poverty and crime, only worse, because, well, crime pays. Pillaring makes you grind your teeth at night.
Back before I came out as trans. I had many lady friends who pretty much all called me their "Straight, gay bff" and I personally didn't mind and thought it was very funny cuz I viewed them all as just friends anyways lmao. And now I'm a straight trans woman and realized, ohhh wait. I was never actually attracted to women, maybe that's why I had such an easy time to make friends with them and be open with them.
It exhausting trying not to be 'too nice' to a guy friend or they start having feelings because they get so excited to get a chance to talk about their feelings. Men often only dump all their feelings on specific female friends who will comfort them while 'keeping it in' near the guys.
Because the guys will eat them alive. On average us men do not have friends we have situational allies. If those allies believe you won't support them, best case scenario you're cut loose.
Because male friends don't like talking about their emotions. So the only chances we do get are with women, and not practicing in the manner of emotional conversations are really bad at them. I understand being tired of it, but if it wasn't for the women closest to me in my life, I'd probably be much worse off mentally. You don't have to listen to every man you're nice to, but just know you are a positive person in their life. I recommend finding a nice way of telling those men they're dumping on you,.
@@averyarp7901 I feel luckier than ever to actually have friends (guys and girls) who are willing to trade real talk and help one another when one of us is down. :(
If it's any help, I've noticed that typically the trigger isn't just being nice, it's talking to them about your feelings. It's kinda seen as permission. Like "we do do that here.". Like how once you hear someone swear, you become comfortable swearing around them when you weren't sure it was on the table before. And if you're the first person to grant this "permission" in their life for a few years, you're gonna be hit with the backlog.
I always hear this and I just cannot relate at all. My experience all my life has been women trauma dumping on me because they finally feel like they can talk to a guy in an honest fashion. The most extreme case was this girl who talked to me about female abuse in Bosnia for 3 hours before she realized she didn't even know my name😂 not that I minded, but I really worry for yall in the US
Never in my life I had good experience by "opening up". My problems is not people dismissing or ignoring, fair enough Im not entitled to anything, but damn it, why mock me and humiliate me? So I just bottle it up and soldier thru it.
@@raingulfdrengot195 Sarcasm doesn't translate over the internet, so my attempt at a compliment wrapped in irony was a bad idea. So, in plain language: I related to your post, upvoted it, thought the first response was mean and dumb, and your reply was on point. So I made a joke that it was you under a different profile. Okay?
I believe that for guys the reason so many of us are boring to talk to is because of the cultural shaming that happened around any personality trait or interest. And that comes from both the conservative and leftist sides. Conservative traditional dudes will call talking about your feelings gay and insinuate that a lot of things are weak and unmasculine, but people on the left will call men egotistical and dump on men’s struggles because other people have it worse. Men are constantly trying to this social balancing act where we avoid expressing anything we could possibly be shamed for. Some guys don’t care about this stuff and ignore all that, and ironically while those guys usually have a very easy time socializing and are very likable, people will then turn around and criticize them on the internet for exactly the things that made them likable in the first place.
I don't think it's even shaming men for liking specific things that either do or don't fit the gender mold - it's shaming men for liking things. The expectation is the performative "hobby" that only exists so you can tell other people you do it, but God forbid it be something you want to do or talk about with them. And we do this to all people, of course - men have some pretty unreasonable expectations of women and their hobbies, too - but we generally understand those expectations to be bad when they're applied to women. I personally know women who refer to themselves as feminists and get the "ick" when a guy is "too into something".
I'm especially rambly and excitable in conversation which has helped me step around stoic allegations, but I understand why men act this way. It's just safer to do, and helps ease any social anxiety since there's nothing standing out to get noticed, which means one can focus on oneself... I just think it's fucking boring and mind-numbing to be around, so its why I've chosen friends who can reciprocate my dumbass energy.
I used to be one of those sturdy oak guys who was incapable of talking about feelings or my problems. It was honestly hellish and made me deeply unlikeable. I started just being more normal and expressing myself more and sure it was hard and some idiots laughed at me but it’s so liberating after a while, and women like you more!
I loved dating a bi dude because he had tried going for men too on dating apps but he was horrified by the results.I was like yeah welcome to dating 😂😂😂 Bi men understand so much more than the average straight dude.
I'm afraid that cuts both ways, plenty of bi women complaining about how complicated, dramatic, indirect, ambiguous and flaky women are compared to men. There's a great video on it by Anna Akana. I'm a bi guy and men are generally lower attractiveness but much simpler to deal with. They say they like you, they do, and still will a week from now. They say they'll go on a date with you, they show up. Much less guesswork and mind games, much less exhausting. Not a bad deal for a little more hair.
My experience as a man is that women are cold-hearted on dating apps. I understand that most men are goblins and not worth your time, but I can barely get any conversation out of most women even when they matched and started talking to me! Dating apps are a two-way street of being horrible.
@@Jorge-np3tq I am a bi woman, I started to write a bit about that but I deleted if for whatever reason. Dating women is a whole different experience. Not just because of how they act surrounding dating itself, but also the pool of women who will date women is not as big as the pool of men who will date women. Then take into account there's a large number of lesbians who refuse to date bi women. Dating is definitely a frustrating experience, especially in this day and age where we rely heavily on dating apps. It's so impersonal that no one feels even remotely bad about dismissing another person like they're worthless trash. And that certainly isn't exclusive to any gender.
@@Jorge-np3tq but I totally get what you're saying. There's pros and cons, and obviously no gender is a monolith. But it creates a frustrating experience when people aren't direct with how they feel and what they want.
I showed my 19yo daughter the JoCat video because I was telling her about the controversy and to my surprise she felt weirded out. She wasn’t offended or anything like that but she said she thought it was creepy.
Socialization is one thing, but a large portion is personal choice. You can't choose how you are raised and socialized but you can choose when you can change and how you act.
And when you do choose to act more emotionally available as a man, in a huge number of interactions, you will be directly, unambiguously, and immediately punished for it. Personal responsibility for societal problems is a sham.
Lets see... I can emotionally clog up like a toilet, avoid bullying and prison but become a social trashcan which will ruin my later life because Im a emotional cr1pple... OOOOOOR I can be vulnerable, be open about my emotions and be bullied into self-robloxing or into life sentence because I snapped and at some point I break and dont care anymore. Srsly, fk this world.
Bro sorry this doomerist nonsense. Get real and get therapy. You do have a poing but you're making it very hard to appreciate that point when you're being so dramatic about it
@@elricofmelnibone425 Ok random Internet bully. Thank you for another proof. Its very easy to gang up on people verbally, I see that very clear. But alais, what did I expect to hear from someone who seems to feel fine in an environment that is destroying the ones that dont fit in.
stuff like this is why i tend to only hang out with other trans people. even when i find the extremely rare non-transphobic cis person (i live in a tiny rural town, being transphobic is super common here), they tend to be so emotionally closed off that it feels impossible to even have a simple conversation with them. this is definitely more prevalent in cis men than cis women, but its still way more common with both of them than it is with trans people. maybe its something to do with growing up queer that makes a person reject those sorts of emotionally detached social norms. but whatever the cause is other trans people tend to be waaayyyy easier to talk to than cis people are.
I would also say that the gay men and straight women Archetype also stems from gay men getting abandoned by some of their straight male friends Like I've read story's of gay men losing their male friends after coming out but their female friends stay sooo its also a sort of thing that happens due to homophobia from other men
I'm so fking glad my gf likes and encourages my less "masculine" traits. I think I've always been more emotionally open than the average man (although that doesn't really say all that much), but having that positive reinforcement really helped me.
Well being emotionally closed off means that addressing anything serious with them is a huge pain. So by default that would make most men incredibly difficult to deal with.
I used to 100% fit the straight guy stereotype you're talking about - until I started working on my mental health a lot (major depression, ADHD and now I'm at childhood trauma/c-ptsd). Now I feel like I can't be friends with any other straight dude anymore😂 Maybe I will be able to if they work on their childhood trauma as well, but if not...? No chance😅
I was in a friend group that like everyone hated each other like it was fucking mean girls because no one could have a good conversation they just bully each other as "jokes"
I personally have experiences on what's expected of man. I am a hetero cis man and I know how to dance fairly well, when in parties I can dance and enjoy a lot either alone or with others. And I have had instances where ladies came to me and straight-up assumed I was gay or asked of I was gay because "no heterosexual man can dance". Like, what?! Man are expected to be in a party with a beer in hand, standing the whole time just moving slightly left to right, creepily hitting on girls and picking fights. C'mon...
Yeah, I've seen guys get made fun of by girls for not dancing and just standing around off to the side, calling them "stiff" and "wooden" or complaining about how boring they are by not dancing at a dance party, but just chatting and drinking. This phenomenon we're talking about is one of the many examples of why I like to opt out of the gender game whenever possible. Sometimes the gender game is rigged so that no matter what you do, you lose in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" type situation.
@@johnwalker1058 I'm preparing for my wedding later this year and I've decided I want to be able to dance at it. I think of myself as a pretty well-adjusted dude, but I had my fair share of experiences at school dances or whatever being made fun of for being awkward Trying to dance in a lesson sent me into a cold sweat fight-or-flight response level of stress. Like, it concerned me how much discomfort the prospect of moving to music caused me.
@@deggy42 I remember how I used to be way too shy to do anything other than sway side to side or shuffle my feet a little at dance parties. But then at this one summer camp, I was going through a period of my life where I was trying to push myself out of my comfort zone more, particularly in social situations as a heavily introverted person. So I just got out on the floor and kinda just flailed around. I remember seeing this tip that as long as you follow a rhythm (preferably the rhythm of whatever song is playing) and keep your movements symmetrical (do with one side of your body what you do to the other like solving an algebraic equation) and you'll be decent enough to look like you know what you're doing. Also, I really got into it and pushed through my own anxiety of what other people might think, so I think I might have exuded a sort of passion that some other people apparently liked as I sometimes got compliments on my moves. (I think that part basically had a "fake it 'till you make it" sort of effect). Anyway, what was once something that I would never dare to do, it eventually became a normal thing for me. I think of the experience like jumping into an ice bath. At first your body is in shock like "holy sh*t it's freezing!" but then it slowly gets more acclimated to it and then you become like Elsa ("the cold doesn't bother you anyway").
@@deggy42 I've got the best mental trick for you, except it does take a bit of discipline. I used it to get over self-consciousness, and went from wallflower to clearing floors Saturday Night Fever style (yes this actually happened at a Soul Night) in... well after years of failure on that issue, it felt like overnight. Okay, one cannot be both subject and object at the same time. Like, if you're looking at someone, the color of their eyes, how they style their hair, and are just completely absorbed in observing this person, you CANNOT be self-conscious. It's like sneezing with your eyes open. So make that your default state until you can turn it on and turn it off. Your basic attitude is this: "I am a pair of judging eyes. I evaluate other people. As far as other people evaluating me, it's either impossible or irrelevant: honestly, I don't think that much about it." It's a small shift of perspective, but it goes a long way towards easing crowd anxiety. btw, can you dance? I mean, are you comfortable with a basic two-step? Because if you can do that, then that's really all you really need to do: there's plenty of room for variety in style with just that framework. Adding more steps and more moves and greater complexity is for when you WANT to, because you LIKE dancing. If you don't, then just two-step through everything, and keep your body loose. If you're not comfortable with it, practice NOW. You can two-step to anything 4/4, and more besides. [edit: there's something called a country two-step which is mucking up the issue: on youtube look up "hip hop two step". The guy starts off with the generic two step that's kind of the basic dance that you build off of. I'm sure at some point it gets hip-hopish, but the very beginning is genre-neutral.]
I'm a very extroverted guy thats adopted many introverts. In my experience being the guy who is open and emotionally intelligent and creates a space for people to talk usually gets men talking. If you give them that stage, it'll take a moment, but men will usually open up freely. Most of what was my straight male friend group has become queer JUST because of this. I gave them a space to deconstruct the way they felt about things, whether it was sexuality, gender expression, etc etc. The rest is history. I want to be a therapist and hopefully have a bigger reach with this.
as a cis girl who has mostly dated cis men, it was quite alarming to realise that most of them either didn’t have close friends, or, if they did, it was not the kind of emotional connection I had with my girl friends. they instead got their emotional needs met ONLY by me, their girlfriend, which is SO UNHEALTHY and also a lot of pressure!! 😭 like it made it even harder to break up with them cos I was worried I was taking away their only source of emotional support. idk how to fix that since it’s a societal problem, but encouraging them to hang out with their friends without me didn’t seem to make much of a difference 😞
As a pretty emotional teenager back in the day, my frame of reference was so fucked, that I thought I had no social skills, just because I had such great difficulty connecting with other boys. It's so weird then getting older and realizing so many of your social notions that are hidden behind a wall of shame are actually quite healthy and functional.
Autist here, can confirm. I don’t get why people can’t open up when they know they need to. I’ll bottle up to avoid bothering people too much but as soon as I become legitimately concerned I act immediately or am extremely open. -oh yeah, I’m not gay but I get asked that a lot. I know I’m doing something right lmfao
As a guy with a whole load of issues from past trauma and Bipolar 2, I can't be honest with those around me because the honest me is massively depressed/depressing. I also can't open up to others about what has happened in my life because my baggage is linked to each other enough that in order to go into some of it, I need to go into most of it, and my friends and family are not there to be my therapist.
The majority of good friends I have are women, because it's so much easier to have honest and sincere conversations. A tendency for which guys have asked me if I'm gay, cause why else would I have female friends. It's sad
You don't know how absolutely right you are. I'm a straight men and I tend to find many, many times more pleasing the company of women because they are much, much more interesting as people than men. I'm uncofortable between another straight men, it's like nothing they talk or do seems interesting. And I'm straight as a bullet. So yeah. I agree 100%.
As a trans woman, this is giving me lots of dysphoria. I tend to be just like the "boring guys" Vaush is describing. Though I do open up more when I get to know people like the shy women Vaush described do. Though this usually leads to me oversharing and coming across as anoying
Also as a trans woman, I identify with all of this. I feel like I have two modes, not being able to talk about stuff much, or oversharing like I'm explaining the world's most complicated conspiracy theory, which then makes me feel bad because I feel like I steamrolled the conversation, which makes me want to shut back down and not talk much.
I think this is why men need to DO things together instead of just talking to each other. They have activity partners more so than intimate friends that share feelings
Okay wow, the part about guys rather dying than being ernest and sincere? Not only will my brothers and my dad not be ernest or sincere, they won't even let a moment in a movie or show be ernest or sincere. Anytime such a moment does happen, one of them undercuts it with some juvenile joke, often objectifying whatever woman happens to be in the scene. Edit: spelling
You should probably listen to Dr K's talk about why 80% men are invisible. I think it would be educational for you. You're tackling this issue with a very "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" attitude, which I don't think is very empathetic nor useful. This is a result of many, many years of social ostracization and most guys don't even *think* about it at this point, they just do it.
From my experience/observations, a lot of guys tend to be convinced they are truly the smartest person in whatever room they happen to be in. Hence the ironic detached humor, cause they see it as hiding their power level. They doubly convinced of this whenever they are talking with women. It’s not that they think women are dumb per se, but they do think their intellect outweighs women and so they think, even if not malicious, they can be manipulative.
The internet has only made this worse - because now guys like that have a forum to practice being smarter than everyone else all the time about everything with zero real world consequences.
Is it your experience because they tell you this or whatever, or are you just assuming this? Sounds very far-fetched to me; calling 'a lot of guys' narcissists essentially.
As a broad with male friends (no hetero), I agree with you completely. It's not always easy because my male friends are so starved for affection that they sometimes mistake it for a crush. Guys, please hug your buddies. Tell your bro that he's awesome. Tell him he looks good. We can't do this alone over here otherwise they end up sabotaging their only friendships by mistakingly hitting on us and hurting themselves in the process.
This. It makes guys like that dependent on female romantic interest even more to cover those emotional needs that aren't being met in other social avenues. This often is expressed in needy or controlling ways in relationships, or misattributed affection as interest in platonic circumstances.
I've heard many times from girl friends that they really appreciate my honesty. And it has to do with more than just "speaking truth", it's about building trust. One time I was going on a vacation wirh some college friends, and we befriended another group. These two girls simply adored me for being so genuine, and they felt safe around me, cause if something was wrong I'd tell them. One afternoon the three of us even took a nap on the same queen size bad, i remember them saying that they wouldn't have done that with anyone else from either group. One day, one of them even got so drunk and started flirting with me after breaking up with her toxic boyfriend over phone, so i just said "we'll talk when you sober up" and I made sure she got to her room safely. She really appreciated that, even tho everyone should do the same in that situation. Anyway we are still friends years later lol Tl;dr just be normal and learn how to interact with people you don't find attractive. Don't be like my friend who doesn't even know how to compliment his own girlfriend let alone have a convo with some random girl..
Emotion implies vulnerability. Men are supposed to be invulnerable. Emotion sometimes makes for bad decisions making. Men are supposed to make the big decisions. So if patriarchy is the air we breathe, then seeing a man acknowledge that he feels things sometimes is going to feel like you are drowning.
The change I made that made women more interested in me was being as out there and honest as I could socially acceptably be. I stopped trying to play guessing games and was upfront about how I didn't understand how they felt about me. This was a great way to get romantic experience, as I was able to learn how women emote and start inferring for myself how they thought about me.
Does that not ruin friendships for you? Cause like the couple times i did openly express the romantic feelings i developed for a female friend, she ended up ghosting me after months, or even years of what i thought was close friendship. I would rather have a close friendship with someone than gamble their entire presence in my life on the possibility they might want to date me.
@benballard5930 It actually didn't for me. One example is a woman I know from high school that I've started talking to lately. She's one of the nicest people I know, and I ended up just casually asking her out a couple of months ago. (I recently broke up with my ex about a month prior, so maybe I should have waited till I was in a better emotional state than I was.) But in any case, she politely turned me down, saying that she wasn't interested in me that way, and apologized for giving that impression. But she still had a positive view of me. I saw her recently, and we able to catch up and chat like nothing bad had happened. We're still friends to this day. Maybe there's something in the casual way I ask women out, because most of them don't see my intentions as anything sexual. I try to treat them as normal people through my mannerisms and language, instead of some sort sexual conquest that many guys tend to think is ok to do. They're still pretty friendly afterwards, so I must be doing something right.
"oh foolish one" imo, perfectly encapsulates a lot of male experiences with socialization. It frames both the singer and the libe interest as equally foolish for different reasons that all have to do with how en and women" are socialized to be straight amd align with specific traits that may not align with your heart
I am glad I grew up when I did. I would not want to be a teen boy growing up today (at least in North America). I honestly think that the online manosphere has made young men worse about things such as irony poisoning, being emotionally closed, and just basically being assholes. George Carlin did a great routine about "man stuff" that covers some of what Vaush talks about here (I think he called it "The Male Disease"). It seems to me that if George did that routine about "man stuff" today he would be accused of being woke or brainwashed by feminism. People like Jordan Peterson would react with great outrage and he would be accused of saying that masculinity is inherently toxic.
Sometimes people are boring, or they just take a while to warm up to people. It seems weird to pathologize this behavior when it comes to down to some people being less extroverted about their interests.
Having just lost both my parents I’ve noticed just how little I show while dealing with it, and I can’t tell how close I am to all these negative stereotype, probably cause I’m a shut in and don’t talk to others much
@@ianwazowski5607 Not unlike how anyone who has even the slightest criticism of women is immediately accused of being a misogynist? As far as "f3minism", like most terms used by identity politics - on both sides - the term has largely become meaningless.
It's funny because the It's Always Sunny writers had the exact same thought on men writing erotica. Dennis after declaring 50 Shades of Gray not sexy decides to write his own "erotic memoirs" and when pitching it to the publisher (unsolicited if I remember) one of the lines he thinks would sell the book was "her boobs, were awesome." And he looks up from the page with this look of creepy satisfaction that is hilarious
Me as a guy I warm up to people and become 10000x more charismatic after hanging out with someone for some time first. Initially hanging out with someone I’m so awkward and then I don’t get a 2nd date even tho they said I was attractive. But after im comfortable with them I feel like a goddam stand up comic or sum. How do you be charismatic right away?
I wonder how much of it is feminine straight men who have been devastated by being called gay insultingly. In LOTR the hobbits were all canonically straight, but everybody talked about how super gay it was to express their feelings.
the reson for rock men is because when guys open up they get made fun off. also, an outraged guy is viewed as more of a threat than a girl and most guys will jist bubble up their feelings until at some point they explode, thus when they actually open up/explode, it is a negative experience and humans by default will remember mich more a negative experience.
@@ianwazowski5607 1. how is that televnat to my comment on this video. 2. if I did, how about you try to find said comment and actually debate me on it. 3. once you're done being performative, how about you comment something about the video you're watching.
@@ianwazowski5607 as I previously said, unless you got a comment to make on it, why bring it up. after all, gods do love to make their worshipper suffer as a way to test them, so why would it be considered innaproproate to take part in god's plan ? also ngl, almost every religion wants to push itself on as many ppl as possible, therefore, why would you have a problel with someone hating on that ?
@@ianwazowski5607 as I said, out of all religions I've came across, islam is by far the one who pushes down the most women, therefore why would you consider being religious at all as a good thing especially within the feminist movement (who's again, all about being against the patriarchy for an equal place, which you can't have under things like charia law)
The boisterous merry thing is great for people who are like that, but not everyone is. It doesn't work for everyone, but it shouldn't be the only acceptable way for men to be sincere and positive without being since as less manly. If you're a quiet type you should express yourself in ways your comfortable with.
For women on the outside looking in it may seem like men are just emotionally distant but often times they can and do open up with the boys, they just don't do it with their partner to avoid the ick
I feel like it would be easier looking for guys either way tho, just because it's easier/faster to find/iterate through more guys, and it would be gay and bi guys that would be attracted to you, who, as you said, tend to be more emotionally open already
As a straight male, I’ve always been straight forward about my feelings and intentions, but I’ve noticed it’s mostly women that are more wishy washy and send more mixed signals in response. It feels like it’s a lose lose situation where men can’t be reserved but also can’t be forward
We should talk about how it’s socially frowned on for men to be emotionally vulnerable and straight women push that more than any group of people. Deeming it an ick. I’m pretty sure more straight men would be willing to be emotionally open if it wasn’t seen as weakness by society as a whole
I honestly rarely interact wirh men like the ones vaush is describing. It seems so cartoonish. I dont doubt these men exist, but for all his going on about avoiding trying to emotionally engage men and their vulnerability.... has he actually tried? Idk, the whole segment feels like an overcorrection.
And this is why I'm a volcel. I couldn't deal with women when I was straight can't deal with men now that I'm Bi, and now trying to meet like minded people I guess they seem put off not by my character but mainly just the fact that I'm talking to them. I feel like it's way too frustrating to meet people or even make friends and it doesn't feel that rewarding tbh. but then when you hear people like Vaush say "don't trauma dump on people." Then it's like the fuck am I supposed to do? I dunno it doesn't matter the world keeps spinning and people are gonna live like they're the center of their universe. Sigh
You guys hate generalizations about people until it’s something you agree with As someone with autism this push to make it a personality trait is the most annoying goddamn thing in the world.
This will help drive anti-intellectualism amongst men. Emotional intelligence has never been an innate masculine trait. Women help men improve at this incrementally throughout their lives.
The thing I notice most, in my relationship too, is general lack of awareness of your role in the room. Like what effect you are having on the people around you. Are you being rude to someone? Is this insensitive? Should you say sth uplifting to this person? Being raised as a dude seems to result in an automatic -10 skill points in stuff like that.
9:40 "sincerity" is often seen as weakness, and a man must never show weakness. This is what Toxic Masculinity truly is. "But I never-" Cool, thank you. Keep up the good work. Be the chance we need. Help men overcome Toxic Masculinity.
as a politically progressive man who is personally outwardly old fashioned [pocket knife, boots, weight lifting, always listening to classic rock] im about to completely lock in into the Jake Gyllenhaal "Dalton" character from RoadHouse the way all the fashy incels did to Ryan Gosling in Drive
"Raising boys is so much easier" No you just neglect your son's emotional needs and call it good.
and people wonder why guys are so touch-starved
And rad fems want to pretend like they have no role in upholding patriarchy
Society is not ready to have this conversation...
But have the conversation anyway ❤
Just be careful this doesn’t go into helicopter parenting territory.
Oh but you’re a leftist so you don’t believe in moderation for this kind of thing I forgot
Usually the line is "raising girls is easier until puberty" because they associate their little boys with being messy and chaotic and their little girls being sweet and quiet (despite both of those things being their fault).
Then during puberty they have to go to war to defend her virginity so now suddenly it's easier to just raise a son who does the womanizing himself.
A thing I've noticed among guys is ironic homoeroticism. Like when guys want to tell their male friends that they like them a lot, instead of just saying it they go over the top and get ironically homoerotic about it (like in terms of what they say, not what they do). I think it's to avoid the vulnerability of sincerely expressing affection for another man, while still doing so. Women don't do this in my experience, they just say that they care about each other.
I could be completely off base, this is anecdotal after all.
No I live in Austria and it's exactly the same, in fact that's what I do personally. But I completely disagree that this "avoids" showing genuine affection. You are working off the notion that in order to successfully communicate affection, you have to say it point blank in an almost autistic, mechanical kind of way. Sure this is probably good every once in a while, but there are a lot of ways to communicate subtly, yet still unambiguously that we love each other dearly. There's nothing wrong with that
@@resir9807 Oh then I probably miscommunicated my point.
I think it is a genuine attempt to show affection, but also trying to avoid the vulnerability of showing genuine affection, if that distinction makes sense?
Like the ironic homoeroticism is said as a joke and can be played off as one, but at its core it's still someone saying "I care about you".
Not to contradict your own experience, though.
@@tombouric No, I think I understood it wrong. But in that case, I don't really understand the value of that kind of vulnerability, if we agree that the mutual understanding that we love each other is already there. I don't know why, but ironically, the ironic homoeroticism feels more sincere. Because anybody can lie and say they love you (it's actually crazy to me how casually people in the US say it), but joking about your homie's balls takes a lot of balls on its own. And a toxic dude I don't want to associate with could never act homoerotically.
@@resir9807 That last point is true yeah. I guess in my head I was thinking of it in terms of trying to pass it as a joke. Like "Haha, I'd never actually do that, that's why it's funny" kinda deal.
Ironic homoeroticism is a way to express both trust and security in your own heterosexuality
Jocat cancellation will be studied by sociologists
You know what, one of my teachers from Uni is essentially studying what Vaush is saying for their thesis. And I swear to god they were talking about Jo cat as an example.
They killed our cat boy 😔
and hopefully be used an example on how not to be a jerk in life, b/c what he went thru was SO uncalled for.
@@Echo81Rumple83I subscribed to Jocat just out of spite towards the people harassing him at the time. I find it very pathetic that people took a video that at best probably made them feel uncomfortable so seriously that they felt the need to do a harassment campaign towards the guy. What a bloody joke.
My cat’s name is Joanna and I’ve called her Jocat for years before ever hearing of this person. This scandal is hitting close to home
As a straight guy that tries to be emotionally expressive and direct - my social media is clogged with takes like these. So it's hard to express myself in any way that might be perceived as inconvenient or requiring emotional labor to support - I feel like I've already exhausted everyone around me just by existing.
A lot of men "suffer in silence" because they're convinced they'll just get booed out of the room.
Gotta have a balance. Time around friends cannot always be sharing negativity otherwise that does get draining, but real friends want to talk about shit usually so that they can help. A friend isn't a therapist, and they might get frustrated if they offer advice and you never seem to listen or take it, but try not to shut yourself down.
Easier said than done I know. I catch myself doing the same thing. But it's actually a pretty shitty way to treat friends, always assuming the worst and never thinking they'll understand or want to support you. If I think about it that way it helps.
The same as every other social rule, having feelings as a guy is usually shamed. Both men and women shame men. Even if they can imagine an emotional guy as a good thing, when they actually see it they assume the worst. There are certain pre-made rationalizations, but deeper down people internalize a certain emotional reaction, and that emotional reaction can work with a variety of supposed reasons.
Women claim that the problem is that men trauma dump to strangers, I believe that, but I think it is also true that it feels extra inappropriate when a man does it, because there is that little patriachal voice claiming that men are supposed to be stoic.
Most men are taught that the absolute worst thing you can do as a man is to be a burden to others.
Sometimes they do get booed out of the room. By other men AND by women. I think there's no quick and easy solve, gender dynamics are in a weird place right now and will continue to be. Also there are so many different types of social settings and relationships. Heart on your sleeve isn't always the move.
I think this is honestly a really fair thing to say. I worry about this a lot
Far too many people who claim to want men to be more earnest and sincere, see men who are that and think they're gay, or are just annoyed and put off by it. The call is coming from inside the house.
This is honestly the reason why I absolutely hate it when Vaush says that Jocat is "gay for women." We tell men to be more open and honest with their feelings but when they are they get called gay by both the left and the right. The left just thinks it's okay when they do it because they think adding a positive connotation makes it okay.
You're right to an extent. Everyone has internalized the message then men need to be emotionally distant even if it fuck over everyone. But lets be honest here, a lot of the people who are the most shitty about this are heterosexual hyper-masculine motherfuckers who think their lack of emotional maturity makes them better men. And rest of us that don't speak out because society tells us that they're right.
That being said since we have all internalized this, a lot of people are complaining before having any solid way forward- which I mean culture doesn't change overnight we do all need to work on this. But I'd saw the worst offenders here are not the people who realize this is a problem.
@@flergindergin Damn men afraid of being open and honest because they're afraid of being called gay. Sounds pretty gay of them.
@@flerginderginthis point should be a comment in its own right so it might be a bit more visible
@@flergindergin do you think being gay is good or bad.
Ironic detachment is something we need to talk about more as a society. Whenever im with a group of guy friends i swear 95% of the time its just the fellas going person to person making light of everything, even when im trying to have a serious intellectual discussion it gets derailed by this male ironic detachment shit
Could you like give an example of this? I feel like I know what you're talking about, but also don't?
Ok but why are you trying to have a “serious intellectual discussion” in a group setting, no wonder you get shut down
@@B-fq7ffYou sound like an asshole.
@@B-fq7ff people talk about deep things all the time, grow up
@@B-fq7ffwould hangout more if people could have a conversation deeper than a inch.
2:45 "If that's so then autistic men are jsut better than non autistic men" Yes we are. As an autistic man I support this message and am not biased.
neurotypicals are mid at best overall tbh
Yeah but.. Musk tho.
An autist without backstops is a nut.
🧢
My guy friends clam up and shut the conversation down when I try to speak seriously or sincerely to them about things. The only thing they ever want to talk about with me is video games. So that's what I talk to them about, and that's it. I don't try to go any deeper with them anymore because it isn't welcome.
Use video-games as a way to talk about those things.
In a subtle way at the beginning and getting deeper later.
Many games have underlying psychological messaging and many people use video-games as a way to vent their inner frustrations.
i had a few really awesome guy friends growing up and they deadass spoiled me. because now as an adult i try talking to guys with dating potential and keep being disappointed 😭 its just like you said, shallow topics only and god help me if the video game they like isnt minecraft lmaooo
It's very difficult but they will open up. But it does take a lot of prying
Men are silent when they listen. If they change the subject, then it's time to stop, not before. Just push a little more
What serious and sincere things do you try to talk to them about?
I feel like a lot of men have trauma around emotional openness, trusting the wrong person, getting your heart broken, that kinda shit does terrible things to your ability to really trust somebody enough to be open with them.
When I was younger I was always shut down from my mum telling me to stop crying because “I’m a man”, while my sister was able to be open and vulnerable all the time. The problem is people reinforcing toxic masculinity on young men which causes them to see other alternatives like right wing groups who exploit those emotional vulnerabilities.
Yeah, people *say* they want men to be open and vulnerable and honest, but just try doing it and watch what happens. For all of their supposed emotional sophistication most women just don't know how to handle it when a man actually does this - and that's the best case scenario. It's certainly been my own experience that being vulnerable is, shall we say, not rewarded. For instance, just look at the s**t storm that followed sh0eonhead when she dared to so much as acknowledge that a lot of men are lonely and it hurts.
@@rdormerNo joke, we give women too much credit for emotional intelligence. I've had so many women tell me about their bitchy little catfights and the rampant jealousy of each other. A lot of male lack of confidence and social skills comes from learning to take bs from women and being told that this is the right way because they're more mature and social. Like, I have rarely seen men ostrecize as viciously as women do, or treat guys with disrespect for hitting on them respectfully. Necessary addendum that I do in fact love women, and have many wonderful female friends who are nothing like that
@@kylemaljevac5482 Bruh that's almost 1:1 my experience minus the sister thing cause i never had any siblings. When i was super young and i cried about anything or got really upset over something, my mom's way of consoling me was to tell me "men don't cry silly stop it right now" so eventually i just became quiet with everyone, still am but now more in a "i don't care about what others are thinking and i don't have to share anything with them anyway" kind of way.
Yeah you have no idea. Pure hell
As a trans woman who recently ish went to a boys school I can confirm. Irony posoining and video games are their main forms of communication (next to talking about studying ofc, it was an academic school). I feel like straight norms have prevented guys from being normal because of all the restrictive ideas (whether it's about women, being close to other guys etc).
The fact that people ridicule and laugh at you for having depression is something we ALL need to talk about.
It isn’t funny. Depression is real and the fact that so many are choosing to keep it within is simply disturbing.
We're obliged to be ready to face death. The death of dreams, ego death, even soul death, if physical death is not imminent.
Depression feels like a fulfillment of that primitive obligation. It is proof of weakness, and it is also the wages of weakness. How perfect, how cleansing, how holy...even as it destroys us.
Despite being a woman, emotional neglect gave me traits found in toxic masculinity. It has cost me relationships with men and women. Men get pissed that I give them the same withering reactions their man friends have over something that should be taken seriously, and women weren’t equip to navigate my emotional unavailability when I have my backslide moments. Case and point I broke up with my last boyfriend and he wanted advice to impress another woman, I stared and went “uuuuh.” He wheeled back with “nah I can’t ask you. You aren’t a normal woman.” I mean he was right but it still hurt. And if you left me outside I’d start digging for cool shit, my role in Minecraft is being a human mole.
Honestly the key is to just stop giving a sh*t. People who "play games" about social interactions whether dating or platonic are a waste of time and not worth yours. Be honest, up front, and happy. The rest will follow.
This is true. One of the things that made my girlfriend first have a crush on me was my open sincerity and openness to being vulnerable.
Forget playing these silly social games, just be unapologetically you and take the shot, and odds are better that it'll work!
This is true but we are social animals and if we experience nothing but rejection within our community, we will objectively physically and psychologically suffer. It is HIGH stakes
Honestly that’s such a good approach. Completely shuts off the lizard brain going “but what if”
The greatest hitter in major league baseball history - Ted Williams - FAILED to reach base more than half the time and failed to get a hit over 65% of the time. Get over yourself bro.... and I mean that in the nicest and most supportive way possible@@KayosHybrid
Lmao I read this as nerds that play the dating sim games and were incel neckbeard types that were a waste of time and not worth yours. xD
Usually they’ve been burned for being emotionally vulnerable. People don’t act certain ways for no reason. There is active discouragement and shaming that men tend to get for that.
Also as a gay man, I don’t want to be someone “gay best friend”. I’m just a person, I’m not a stereotype or something to be used.
@@ianwazowski5607 that probably means different things to different people. Feminist has become a loaded term, though I believe in equal rights so by the definition I know, I would be a feminist.
@@ianwazowski5607 BLM is a bad example, because it's not really an ambiguous term.
Whereas both socialism and feminism have very broad highly contested definitions.
For a lot of people, nothing short of common property over the means of production can be socialism. Thus they see Bernie Sanders as nothing more than a wishy washy capitalist.
For others, socialism is "when the goverment does stuff" and Bernie Sanders might as well be Stalin.
My husband and I got together in high school. His family was/is extremely emotionally unintelligent and he’s been learning how to properly express himself. That being said, he’s on the spectrum and has been extremely open to learning how to be himself and express how he feels. His brother, on the other hand, is nearly all the negative guy tropes and is soooooo awful to deal with. He’s alright in short bursts like parties or playing games every now and then, but he tends to use me as a free therapist, even though he’s in therapy! It’s insane
Emotional unintelligence is part of men's role. It's socialized. It's conventional. It's _desired._ The consequences don't matter.
I never understood the "guys can't be friends with girls" thing. I've always got along with women as a straight guy, and sometimes I prefer their friendship. My guy friends are fucking weird, it's like a whole different social ritual, whereas with women, it's usually pretty straightforward. That's kinda why I'm glad I'm heterosexual, I've never had a tumultuous relationship or a relationship with someone who wouldn't simply express their feelings.
gay men don't often act exactly like stereotypical straight men
Thats why you're glad you're heterosexual? What?
"Guys can't be friends with girls (they've fucked before)" - Fixed your comment.
At least weird straight men get to date the gender that hurts themselves and not others. T_T
For how much people typically talk about women being fake and guys being more direct, guys (especially straight ones) engage in an incredible amount of cringy posturing, fake stoicism and constant ironic detachment to hide vulnerability and project dominance. Just go to any gym and observe. It's everywhere.
Emotional immaturity is a big one that I’ve noticed.
I think the problem is the lack of good male role models. Considering the fact that Andrew Tate is so popular is crazy to me.
Emotionally mature? What, you calling me old? You calling me wrinkly?
The nerve of some people! 😤
Last time a girl messaged me we texted for about an hour after she asked I was super open and honest about why I’m generally a shy person and need to work on my confidence apparently I over shared because she asked me if I was high and became super awkward after that point (then never messaged me again)
None of this is to contradict u I think most guys are emotionally immature I just think it’s kinda funny that I’m emotionally immature in basically the opposite way
The irony that I’m kinda over sharing here is not lost on me lol
@@thomas913its not oversharing if it's anonymous and on-topic imo
@@thomas913How can that end up being awkward? Just make a joke out of it like: I'm high by default or some shit...
Regarding Autism/Men: I am autistic, and I consider myself to be VASTLY more open and honest about my emotions than other men around me, and I think it’s because I just wasn’t in school on the day that they told they boys that being emotionally stunted was an important part of living in modern society. Genuinely baffles me that people don’t want to talk about their emotions. I mean, sometimes I don’t know what emotion I’m having, but by god am I gonna talk your ear off about it until you tell me to shut up or redirect me with a shiny object/special interest.
This bit reminds of a lesson from my former warehouse supervisor, it was "Closed mouth don't get fed" (though it was about getting a raise lol). I've applied that to my life about being open about how I feel with other people in my social group because people can't read minds. People can't help ya if they don't know what's going on with ya. Don't suffer in silence.
Agreed. This is one of those things that guys learn from experience. Most of us do not learn this from male role models, growing up. I'll be 41 next month. And it took me until I was in my mid 20's. To begin to mature emotionally. Even then I don't think that I will ever be a "feels" guy in public. And I know that it's because of how I was brought up.
Squeaky wheel gets the grease.
People express emotional immaturity in a lot of ways, and a big one for guys can be leaning way too hard into the gendered expectations to not express or acknowledge feelings.
Yep, cowboys, haha
Emotional immaturity is almost by definition a lack of impulse control. Remember, the default is to show emotion: otherwise babies would die from neglect. You have to be taught to pillar all the time, but the subsequent nervous breakdowns are completely organic.
I'll put it as simply as possible: if a man is not showing emotion, it is by deliberate effort. Why make that effort? Gendered expectations. Thinking that gendered expectations are just an excuse makes absolutely no sense. What other reason is there for not expressing what's inside? You sound like a right-winger dismissing the link between poverty and crime, only worse, because, well, crime pays. Pillaring makes you grind your teeth at night.
Back before I came out as trans. I had many lady friends who pretty much all called me their "Straight, gay bff" and I personally didn't mind and thought it was very funny cuz I viewed them all as just friends anyways lmao.
And now I'm a straight trans woman and realized, ohhh wait. I was never actually attracted to women, maybe that's why I had such an easy time to make friends with them and be open with them.
being a straight aro man is a death sentence. no way I'm getting out of this one 💀
felt that
Shieet I couldn't even imagine your pain.
Being aromantic as a man comes with advantages i would say
"I swear to God if this is a clickbait fashion video"
It exhausting trying not to be 'too nice' to a guy friend or they start having feelings because they get so excited to get a chance to talk about their feelings. Men often only dump all their feelings on specific female friends who will comfort them while 'keeping it in' near the guys.
Because the guys will eat them alive. On average us men do not have friends we have situational allies. If those allies believe you won't support them, best case scenario you're cut loose.
Because male friends don't like talking about their emotions. So the only chances we do get are with women, and not practicing in the manner of emotional conversations are really bad at them. I understand being tired of it, but if it wasn't for the women closest to me in my life, I'd probably be much worse off mentally. You don't have to listen to every man you're nice to, but just know you are a positive person in their life. I recommend finding a nice way of telling those men they're dumping on you,.
@@averyarp7901 I feel luckier than ever to actually have friends (guys and girls) who are willing to trade real talk and help one another when one of us is down. :(
If it's any help, I've noticed that typically the trigger isn't just being nice, it's talking to them about your feelings. It's kinda seen as permission. Like "we do do that here.". Like how once you hear someone swear, you become comfortable swearing around them when you weren't sure it was on the table before. And if you're the first person to grant this "permission" in their life for a few years, you're gonna be hit with the backlog.
I always hear this and I just cannot relate at all. My experience all my life has been women trauma dumping on me because they finally feel like they can talk to a guy in an honest fashion. The most extreme case was this girl who talked to me about female abuse in Bosnia for 3 hours before she realized she didn't even know my name😂 not that I minded, but I really worry for yall in the US
Never in my life I had good experience by "opening up". My problems is not people dismissing or ignoring, fair enough Im not entitled to anything, but damn it, why mock me and humiliate me? So I just bottle it up and soldier thru it.
Oh boo hoo.
You just don't have friends.
@@JoshSweetvale Case in point
@@raingulfdrengot195 Don't lie: @JoshSweetvale is your alternate account, right? Because that was just too perfect. 😜
@@jessejordache1869 What?
@@raingulfdrengot195 Sarcasm doesn't translate over the internet, so my attempt at a compliment wrapped in irony was a bad idea.
So, in plain language: I related to your post, upvoted it, thought the first response was mean and dumb, and your reply was on point. So I made a joke that it was you under a different profile.
Okay?
In response to the earnestness thing, here's the male-coded way to do it: "Dude, that was awesome!"
I've always thought that the "(straight) men and women can't be friends" take is insane, and just a self report on someone's social skills
It's horrifying.
I believe that for guys the reason so many of us are boring to talk to is because of the cultural shaming that happened around any personality trait or interest. And that comes from both the conservative and leftist sides. Conservative traditional dudes will call talking about your feelings gay and insinuate that a lot of things are weak and unmasculine, but people on the left will call men egotistical and dump on men’s struggles because other people have it worse.
Men are constantly trying to this social balancing act where we avoid expressing anything we could possibly be shamed for. Some guys don’t care about this stuff and ignore all that, and ironically while those guys usually have a very easy time socializing and are very likable, people will then turn around and criticize them on the internet for exactly the things that made them likable in the first place.
I don't think it's even shaming men for liking specific things that either do or don't fit the gender mold - it's shaming men for liking things. The expectation is the performative "hobby" that only exists so you can tell other people you do it, but God forbid it be something you want to do or talk about with them.
And we do this to all people, of course - men have some pretty unreasonable expectations of women and their hobbies, too - but we generally understand those expectations to be bad when they're applied to women. I personally know women who refer to themselves as feminists and get the "ick" when a guy is "too into something".
Honestly, I have never heard the notion that men are boring to talk to in real life. Are you sure this is not some internet fabrication?
I'm especially rambly and excitable in conversation which has helped me step around stoic allegations, but I understand why men act this way. It's just safer to do, and helps ease any social anxiety since there's nothing standing out to get noticed, which means one can focus on oneself... I just think it's fucking boring and mind-numbing to be around, so its why I've chosen friends who can reciprocate my dumbass energy.
I love men
Gay
True
We should all love men, and men should love themselves
@@B-fq7ff "There are no women on the internet"
@@emjakos3548 i like men in a gay way tho
I used to be one of those sturdy oak guys who was incapable of talking about feelings or my problems. It was honestly hellish and made me deeply unlikeable. I started just being more normal and expressing myself more and sure it was hard and some idiots laughed at me but it’s so liberating after a while, and women like you more!
I loved dating a bi dude because he had tried going for men too on dating apps but he was horrified by the results.I was like yeah welcome to dating 😂😂😂 Bi men understand so much more than the average straight dude.
I'm afraid that cuts both ways, plenty of bi women complaining about how complicated, dramatic, indirect, ambiguous and flaky women are compared to men. There's a great video on it by Anna Akana.
I'm a bi guy and men are generally lower attractiveness but much simpler to deal with. They say they like you, they do, and still will a week from now. They say they'll go on a date with you, they show up. Much less guesswork and mind games, much less exhausting. Not a bad deal for a little more hair.
My experience as a man is that women are cold-hearted on dating apps. I understand that most men are goblins and not worth your time, but I can barely get any conversation out of most women even when they matched and started talking to me! Dating apps are a two-way street of being horrible.
Word.
@@Jorge-np3tq I am a bi woman, I started to write a bit about that but I deleted if for whatever reason. Dating women is a whole different experience. Not just because of how they act surrounding dating itself, but also the pool of women who will date women is not as big as the pool of men who will date women. Then take into account there's a large number of lesbians who refuse to date bi women. Dating is definitely a frustrating experience, especially in this day and age where we rely heavily on dating apps. It's so impersonal that no one feels even remotely bad about dismissing another person like they're worthless trash. And that certainly isn't exclusive to any gender.
@@Jorge-np3tq but I totally get what you're saying. There's pros and cons, and obviously no gender is a monolith. But it creates a frustrating experience when people aren't direct with how they feel and what they want.
I showed my 19yo daughter the JoCat video because I was telling her about the controversy and to my surprise she felt weirded out. She wasn’t offended or anything like that but she said she thought it was creepy.
It is cringe and zesty
Yes, its gay to like women for sure@bensimmonsburneraccount7187
It's just weird and unnecessary to make such a grand proclamation of loving women...I found it to be cringe and dehumanizing women.
@@wells13Being annoyingly direct about liking women is…dehumanizing them? 🤨🤨🤨
@@wells13 Were you aware that it's a gender-flipped parody of a Lizzo song? Did Lizzo dehumanize men?
Socialization is one thing, but a large portion is personal choice. You can't choose how you are raised and socialized but you can choose when you can change and how you act.
And when you do choose to act more emotionally available as a man, in a huge number of interactions, you will be directly, unambiguously, and immediately punished for it. Personal responsibility for societal problems is a sham.
Lets see...
I can emotionally clog up like a toilet, avoid bullying and prison but become a social trashcan which will ruin my later life because Im a emotional cr1pple...
OOOOOOR
I can be vulnerable, be open about my emotions and be bullied into self-robloxing or into life sentence because I snapped and at some point I break and dont care anymore.
Srsly, fk this world.
Bro sorry this doomerist nonsense. Get real and get therapy. You do have a poing but you're making it very hard to appreciate that point when you're being so dramatic about it
@@resir9807 "hurr durr doomer, lol get therapy, look at me how cool I am on the internet!"
Tanks for proving my point.... bro
This is absolutely a false dichotomy you presented. I agree with the previous commenter, go to therapy and unpack that stuff.
Despair is unbecoming of the righteous.
@@elricofmelnibone425 Ok random Internet bully. Thank you for another proof. Its very easy to gang up on people verbally, I see that very clear. But alais, what did I expect to hear from someone who seems to feel fine in an environment that is destroying the ones that dont fit in.
stuff like this is why i tend to only hang out with other trans people. even when i find the extremely rare non-transphobic cis person (i live in a tiny rural town, being transphobic is super common here), they tend to be so emotionally closed off that it feels impossible to even have a simple conversation with them. this is definitely more prevalent in cis men than cis women, but its still way more common with both of them than it is with trans people.
maybe its something to do with growing up queer that makes a person reject those sorts of emotionally detached social norms. but whatever the cause is other trans people tend to be waaayyyy easier to talk to than cis people are.
I would also say that the gay men and straight women Archetype also stems from gay men getting abandoned by some of their straight male friends
Like I've read story's of gay men losing their male friends after coming out but their female friends stay sooo its also a sort of thing that happens due to homophobia from other men
I'm so fking glad my gf likes and encourages my less "masculine" traits. I think I've always been more emotionally open than the average man (although that doesn't really say all that much), but having that positive reinforcement really helped me.
Im glad you let her in like that. Many don’t and it feels awful from the other side. That’s really great for you two ❤
I agree about men being emotionally closed off, but the idea that "difficult to deal with" is a male-biased trait is comical.
Seriously, it's exactly the opposite
ironically, accepting that I'm a crybaby pushover did put me out of that loop.
Makes me wonder a little bit if Vaush is just straight and enjoys homo-erotica
Well being emotionally closed off means that addressing anything serious with them is a huge pain. So by default that would make most men incredibly difficult to deal with.
@@richards5855 Yeah, real nice "math" you did there. Too bad you didn't actually brush up on your homework.
I used to 100% fit the straight guy stereotype you're talking about - until I started working on my mental health a lot (major depression, ADHD and now I'm at childhood trauma/c-ptsd). Now I feel like I can't be friends with any other straight dude anymore😂 Maybe I will be able to if they work on their childhood trauma as well, but if not...? No chance😅
I was in a friend group that like everyone hated each other like it was fucking mean girls because no one could have a good conversation they just bully each other as "jokes"
I personally have experiences on what's expected of man.
I am a hetero cis man and I know how to dance fairly well, when in parties I can dance and enjoy a lot either alone or with others.
And I have had instances where ladies came to me and straight-up assumed I was gay or asked of I was gay because "no heterosexual man can dance".
Like, what?!
Man are expected to be in a party with a beer in hand, standing the whole time just moving slightly left to right, creepily hitting on girls and picking fights.
C'mon...
Yeah, I've seen guys get made fun of by girls for not dancing and just standing around off to the side, calling them "stiff" and "wooden" or complaining about how boring they are by not dancing at a dance party, but just chatting and drinking.
This phenomenon we're talking about is one of the many examples of why I like to opt out of the gender game whenever possible. Sometimes the gender game is rigged so that no matter what you do, you lose in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" type situation.
@@johnwalker1058 I'm preparing for my wedding later this year and I've decided I want to be able to dance at it. I think of myself as a pretty well-adjusted dude, but I had my fair share of experiences at school dances or whatever being made fun of for being awkward
Trying to dance in a lesson sent me into a cold sweat fight-or-flight response level of stress. Like, it concerned me how much discomfort the prospect of moving to music caused me.
@@deggy42 I think that once you start ignoring those around you and just enjoying the moment it becomes easier and easier to do it.
@@deggy42
I remember how I used to be way too shy to do anything other than sway side to side or shuffle my feet a little at dance parties. But then at this one summer camp, I was going through a period of my life where I was trying to push myself out of my comfort zone more, particularly in social situations as a heavily introverted person. So I just got out on the floor and kinda just flailed around.
I remember seeing this tip that as long as you follow a rhythm (preferably the rhythm of whatever song is playing) and keep your movements symmetrical (do with one side of your body what you do to the other like solving an algebraic equation) and you'll be decent enough to look like you know what you're doing. Also, I really got into it and pushed through my own anxiety of what other people might think, so I think I might have exuded a sort of passion that some other people apparently liked as I sometimes got compliments on my moves. (I think that part basically had a "fake it 'till you make it" sort of effect).
Anyway, what was once something that I would never dare to do, it eventually became a normal thing for me. I think of the experience like jumping into an ice bath. At first your body is in shock like "holy sh*t it's freezing!" but then it slowly gets more acclimated to it and then you become like Elsa ("the cold doesn't bother you anyway").
@@deggy42 I've got the best mental trick for you, except it does take a bit of discipline. I used it to get over self-consciousness, and went from wallflower to clearing floors Saturday Night Fever style (yes this actually happened at a Soul Night) in... well after years of failure on that issue, it felt like overnight.
Okay, one cannot be both subject and object at the same time. Like, if you're looking at someone, the color of their eyes, how they style their hair, and are just completely absorbed in observing this person, you CANNOT be self-conscious. It's like sneezing with your eyes open. So make that your default state until you can turn it on and turn it off. Your basic attitude is this: "I am a pair of judging eyes. I evaluate other people. As far as other people evaluating me, it's either impossible or irrelevant: honestly, I don't think that much about it." It's a small shift of perspective, but it goes a long way towards easing crowd anxiety.
btw, can you dance? I mean, are you comfortable with a basic two-step? Because if you can do that, then that's really all you really need to do: there's plenty of room for variety in style with just that framework. Adding more steps and more moves and greater complexity is for when you WANT to, because you LIKE dancing. If you don't, then just two-step through everything, and keep your body loose. If you're not comfortable with it, practice NOW. You can two-step to anything 4/4, and more besides.
[edit: there's something called a country two-step which is mucking up the issue: on youtube look up "hip hop two step". The guy starts off with the generic two step that's kind of the basic dance that you build off of. I'm sure at some point it gets hip-hopish, but the very beginning is genre-neutral.]
I'm a very extroverted guy thats adopted many introverts. In my experience being the guy who is open and emotionally intelligent and creates a space for people to talk usually gets men talking. If you give them that stage, it'll take a moment, but men will usually open up freely. Most of what was my straight male friend group has become queer JUST because of this. I gave them a space to deconstruct the way they felt about things, whether it was sexuality, gender expression, etc etc. The rest is history. I want to be a therapist and hopefully have a bigger reach with this.
as a cis girl who has mostly dated cis men, it was quite alarming to realise that most of them either didn’t have close friends, or, if they did, it was not the kind of emotional connection I had with my girl friends.
they instead got their emotional needs met ONLY by me, their girlfriend, which is SO UNHEALTHY and also a lot of pressure!! 😭
like it made it even harder to break up with them cos I was worried I was taking away their only source of emotional support.
idk how to fix that since it’s a societal problem, but encouraging them to hang out with their friends without me didn’t seem to make much of a difference 😞
As a pretty emotional teenager back in the day, my frame of reference was so fucked, that I thought I had no social skills, just because I had such great difficulty connecting with other boys. It's so weird then getting older and realizing so many of your social notions that are hidden behind a wall of shame are actually quite healthy and functional.
Autist here, can confirm. I don’t get why people can’t open up when they know they need to.
I’ll bottle up to avoid bothering people too much but as soon as I become legitimately concerned I act immediately or am extremely open.
-oh yeah, I’m not gay but I get asked that a lot. I know I’m doing something right lmfao
As a guy with a whole load of issues from past trauma and Bipolar 2, I can't be honest with those around me because the honest me is massively depressed/depressing. I also can't open up to others about what has happened in my life because my baggage is linked to each other enough that in order to go into some of it, I need to go into most of it, and my friends and family are not there to be my therapist.
The majority of good friends I have are women, because it's so much easier to have honest and sincere conversations. A tendency for which guys have asked me if I'm gay, cause why else would I have female friends. It's sad
men need to stop using clickbait
it is really becoming a big problem
This is true
You don't know how absolutely right you are. I'm a straight men and I tend to find many, many times more pleasing the company of women because they are much, much more interesting as people than men. I'm uncofortable between another straight men, it's like nothing they talk or do seems interesting. And I'm straight as a bullet. So yeah. I agree 100%.
i think, thats your personal experience
I'm a dwarf and I'm digging a hole...
Diggy diggy hole!
Diggi diggi hole...
@@InterplanarerPennersoeldner65 Diggi diggi hole...
@@SidheKnight ... I am a dwarf and Im digging a hole
I'm an autistic trans woman who's unfortunately developed lots of habits from "male socialization" and I either overshare or don't share enough
As a trans woman, this is giving me lots of dysphoria. I tend to be just like the "boring guys" Vaush is describing. Though I do open up more when I get to know people like the shy women Vaush described do. Though this usually leads to me oversharing and coming across as anoying
Also as a trans woman, I identify with all of this. I feel like I have two modes, not being able to talk about stuff much, or oversharing like I'm explaining the world's most complicated conspiracy theory, which then makes me feel bad because I feel like I steamrolled the conversation, which makes me want to shut back down and not talk much.
as a cis woman, this is also my experience, and it’s because of social anxiety! it’s pretty common with shy girls, you’re fine ❤️
I think this is why men need to DO things together instead of just talking to each other. They have activity partners more so than intimate friends that share feelings
6:17 "He was a boy, she was a girl. Could it be any more obvious?"
YES. YES IT COULD PLEASE. THAT'S TOO LITTLE TO GO ON.
Me and my boys hug after the "Boys Trip".
Okay wow, the part about guys rather dying than being ernest and sincere?
Not only will my brothers and my dad not be ernest or sincere, they won't even let a moment in a movie or show be ernest or sincere. Anytime such a moment does happen, one of them undercuts it with some juvenile joke, often objectifying whatever woman happens to be in the scene.
Edit: spelling
You should probably listen to Dr K's talk about why 80% men are invisible. I think it would be educational for you. You're tackling this issue with a very "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" attitude, which I don't think is very empathetic nor useful. This is a result of many, many years of social ostracization and most guys don't even *think* about it at this point, they just do it.
From my experience/observations, a lot of guys tend to be convinced they are truly the smartest person in whatever room they happen to be in. Hence the ironic detached humor, cause they see it as hiding their power level. They doubly convinced of this whenever they are talking with women. It’s not that they think women are dumb per se, but they do think their intellect outweighs women and so they think, even if not malicious, they can be manipulative.
The internet has only made this worse - because now guys like that have a forum to practice being smarter than everyone else all the time about everything with zero real world consequences.
And if you make fun of yourself for not being as smart as you think you are women will call you a dumbass
What’s your point?
Some people just like telling jokes and having a laugh. It's not that serious
@@idakev you’re right it isn’t that serious, but to a lot of guys it is.
Is it your experience because they tell you this or whatever, or are you just assuming this? Sounds very far-fetched to me; calling 'a lot of guys' narcissists essentially.
As a broad with male friends (no hetero), I agree with you completely. It's not always easy because my male friends are so starved for affection that they sometimes mistake it for a crush. Guys, please hug your buddies. Tell your bro that he's awesome. Tell him he looks good. We can't do this alone over here otherwise they end up sabotaging their only friendships by mistakingly hitting on us and hurting themselves in the process.
This. It makes guys like that dependent on female romantic interest even more to cover those emotional needs that aren't being met in other social avenues. This often is expressed in needy or controlling ways in relationships, or misattributed affection as interest in platonic circumstances.
I've heard many times from girl friends that they really appreciate my honesty. And it has to do with more than just "speaking truth", it's about building trust.
One time I was going on a vacation wirh some college friends, and we befriended another group. These two girls simply adored me for being so genuine, and they felt safe around me, cause if something was wrong I'd tell them. One afternoon the three of us even took a nap on the same queen size bad, i remember them saying that they wouldn't have done that with anyone else from either group. One day, one of them even got so drunk and started flirting with me after breaking up with her toxic boyfriend over phone, so i just said "we'll talk when you sober up" and I made sure she got to her room safely. She really appreciated that, even tho everyone should do the same in that situation. Anyway we are still friends years later lol
Tl;dr just be normal and learn how to interact with people you don't find attractive. Don't be like my friend who doesn't even know how to compliment his own girlfriend let alone have a convo with some random girl..
Emotion implies vulnerability. Men are supposed to be invulnerable. Emotion sometimes makes for bad decisions making. Men are supposed to make the big decisions. So if patriarchy is the air we breathe, then seeing a man acknowledge that he feels things sometimes is going to feel like you are drowning.
The change I made that made women more interested in me was being as out there and honest as I could socially acceptably be. I stopped trying to play guessing games and was upfront about how I didn't understand how they felt about me.
This was a great way to get romantic experience, as I was able to learn how women emote and start inferring for myself how they thought about me.
Does that not ruin friendships for you? Cause like the couple times i did openly express the romantic feelings i developed for a female friend, she ended up ghosting me after months, or even years of what i thought was close friendship. I would rather have a close friendship with someone than gamble their entire presence in my life on the possibility they might want to date me.
@benballard5930 It actually didn't for me. One example is a woman I know from high school that I've started talking to lately. She's one of the nicest people I know, and I ended up just casually asking her out a couple of months ago. (I recently broke up with my ex about a month prior, so maybe I should have waited till I was in a better emotional state than I was.)
But in any case, she politely turned me down, saying that she wasn't interested in me that way, and apologized for giving that impression. But she still had a positive view of me. I saw her recently, and we able to catch up and chat like nothing bad had happened. We're still friends to this day.
Maybe there's something in the casual way I ask women out, because most of them don't see my intentions as anything sexual. I try to treat them as normal people through my mannerisms and language, instead of some sort sexual conquest that many guys tend to think is ok to do. They're still pretty friendly afterwards, so I must be doing something right.
"oh foolish one" imo, perfectly encapsulates a lot of male experiences with socialization.
It frames both the singer and the libe interest as equally foolish for different reasons that all have to do with how en and women" are socialized to be straight amd align with specific traits that may not align with your heart
I am glad I grew up when I did. I would not want to be a teen boy growing up today (at least in North America). I honestly think that the online manosphere has made young men worse about things such as irony poisoning, being emotionally closed, and just basically being assholes. George Carlin did a great routine about "man stuff" that covers some of what Vaush talks about here (I think he called it "The Male Disease"). It seems to me that if George did that routine about "man stuff" today he would be accused of being woke or brainwashed by feminism. People like Jordan Peterson would react with great outrage and he would be accused of saying that masculinity is inherently toxic.
Sometimes people are boring, or they just take a while to warm up to people. It seems weird to pathologize this behavior when it comes to down to some people being less extroverted about their interests.
11:20 That's meeee! Boisterously earnest!
EDIT: It may also be an Anglosphere thing.
Having just lost both my parents I’ve noticed just how little I show while dealing with it, and I can’t tell how close I am to all these negative stereotype, probably cause I’m a shut in and don’t talk to others much
That cat is pretty hefty.
I gotta agree with chat i feel like more ppl are boring for non gendered reasons than ppl who are boring for gendered reasons
like the jacket/glasses. you're stylin' vaush
Find guys who like to hang out and play table top games, such as RPGs or board games. They have no problem with at least a general level of sincerity.
Yeah, because women as a group are not challenging or exhausting to deal with at all. Nope....
You’re being SeXiSt right now bro.
But you’re right
don't be cringe bro. it's challenging and exhausting
Criticizing men isn't glorifying women.
@@ianwazowski5607 Not unlike how anyone who has even the slightest criticism of women is immediately accused of being a misogynist? As far as "f3minism", like most terms used by identity politics - on both sides - the term has largely become meaningless.
Remembering when Artemi was a kitten 💀
It's funny because the It's Always Sunny writers had the exact same thought on men writing erotica.
Dennis after declaring 50 Shades of Gray not sexy decides to write his own "erotic memoirs" and when pitching it to the publisher (unsolicited if I remember) one of the lines he thinks would sell the book was "her boobs, were awesome." And he looks up from the page with this look of creepy satisfaction that is hilarious
Me as a guy I warm up to people and become 10000x more charismatic after hanging out with someone for some time first. Initially hanging out with someone I’m so awkward and then I don’t get a 2nd date even tho they said I was attractive. But after im comfortable with them I feel like a goddam stand up comic or sum. How do you be charismatic right away?
vaush is talking about me and i know everything he says already, but my god what am i even supposed to do
haha yeah same
Take it one step at a time my friend
I'm a straight male and I've had Far more female friends than male.
I'm also autistic and asexual...
I wonder how much of it is feminine straight men who have been devastated by being called gay insultingly. In LOTR the hobbits were all canonically straight, but everybody talked about how super gay it was to express their feelings.
the reson for rock men is because when guys open up they get made fun off.
also, an outraged guy is viewed as more of a threat than a girl and most guys will jist bubble up their feelings until at some point they explode, thus when they actually open up/explode, it is a negative experience and humans by default will remember mich more a negative experience.
@@ianwazowski5607 1. how is that televnat to my comment on this video.
2. if I did, how about you try to find said comment and actually debate me on it.
3. once you're done being performative, how about you comment something about the video you're watching.
@@ianwazowski5607 as I previously said, unless you got a comment to make on it, why bring it up.
after all, gods do love to make their worshipper suffer as a way to test them, so why would it be considered innaproproate to take part in god's plan ?
also ngl, almost every religion wants to push itself on as many ppl as possible, therefore, why would you have a problel with someone hating on that ?
@@ianwazowski5607 as I said, out of all religions I've came across, islam is by far the one who pushes down the most women, therefore why would you consider being religious at all as a good thing especially within the feminist movement (who's again, all about being against the patriarchy for an equal place, which you can't have under things like charia law)
I'm a guy and I told one of my friends that I appreciated our friendship and liked him as a person and he asked if I was going to commit suicide.
The boisterous merry thing is great for people who are like that, but not everyone is. It doesn't work for everyone, but it shouldn't be the only acceptable way for men to be sincere and positive without being since as less manly. If you're a quiet type you should express yourself in ways your comfortable with.
Vaush, after the last arc, maybe chill on judging others. 😅
“Hypocrisy doesn’t matter.”
-Vaush
And who are you? Nobody? Cool.
For women on the outside looking in it may seem like men are just emotionally distant but often times they can and do open up with the boys, they just don't do it with their partner to avoid the ick
I feel like it would be easier looking for guys either way tho, just because it's easier/faster to find/iterate through more guys, and it would be gay and bi guys that would be attracted to you, who, as you said, tend to be more emotionally open already
“Artemy”
I MUST know if your cat is named after the Haruspex from Pathologic
As a straight male, I’ve always been straight forward about my feelings and intentions, but I’ve noticed it’s mostly women that are more wishy washy and send more mixed signals in response. It feels like it’s a lose lose situation where men can’t be reserved but also can’t be forward
Peer-reviewed research shows that women are more selective than men, even for long-term relationships.
"is it 'being alive?'"
-radfems
We should talk about how it’s socially frowned on for men to be emotionally vulnerable and straight women push that more than any group of people. Deeming it an ick. I’m pretty sure more straight men would be willing to be emotionally open if it wasn’t seen as weakness by society as a whole
I honestly rarely interact wirh men like the ones vaush is describing. It seems so cartoonish. I dont doubt these
men exist, but for all his going on about avoiding trying to emotionally engage men and their vulnerability.... has he actually tried?
Idk, the whole segment feels like an overcorrection.
as a "traditionally masculine" guy i take a lot of pride in being able to tell my guy friends i care about them.
And this is why I'm a volcel. I couldn't deal with women when I was straight can't deal with men now that I'm Bi, and now trying to meet like minded people I guess they seem put off not by my character but mainly just the fact that I'm talking to them. I feel like it's way too frustrating to meet people or even make friends and it doesn't feel that rewarding tbh.
but then when you hear people like Vaush say "don't trauma dump on people." Then it's like the fuck am I supposed to do? I dunno it doesn't matter the world keeps spinning and people are gonna live like they're the center of their universe. Sigh
"Autistic men are just objectively better than non-autistic men" We have never been more back than this
You guys hate generalizations about people until it’s something you agree with
As someone with autism this push to make it a personality trait is the most annoying goddamn thing in the world.
@@DJ-wl5qo I say this with all compassion and love: You are a Fucking Dork. Take a joke.
@@harismeld9411 “Lol it’s just a joke”😅😅😅😅😅😅
Fuck off
@@DJ-wl5qo Yep, I'm sure both vaush and harismeld9411 are 100% sincere and serious about this and AREN'T exaggerating for comedic effect.
Lando greeting Han in Cloud City!
This will help drive anti-intellectualism amongst men. Emotional intelligence has never been an innate masculine trait. Women help men improve at this incrementally throughout their lives.
The thing I notice most, in my relationship too, is general lack of awareness of your role in the room. Like what effect you are having on the people around you. Are you being rude to someone? Is this insensitive? Should you say sth uplifting to this person?
Being raised as a dude seems to result in an automatic -10 skill points in stuff like that.
9:40 "sincerity" is often seen as weakness, and a man must never show weakness. This is what Toxic Masculinity truly is.
"But I never-"
Cool, thank you. Keep up the good work. Be the chance we need. Help men overcome Toxic Masculinity.
If a man is unexpressive around you; you're just boring. Try mentioning dinosaurs.
It's not complicated.
as a politically progressive man who is personally outwardly old fashioned [pocket knife, boots, weight lifting, always listening to classic rock] im about to completely lock in into the Jake Gyllenhaal "Dalton" character from RoadHouse the way all the fashy incels did to Ryan Gosling in Drive