I'd hate to ask you to do this again seeing as how you literally just did it. But could you do a comparison of Windforce + Faith merc vs Faith + might merc and see how those differ?
I'd like to see this too but with an added third bow which would be a a 5% ctc amp 450% ed 2 os 20% ias rare bow with a faith merc and 45/120 helmet plus atma's scarab for a total of 10% ctc amp.
@@TheGothsta You can also use that with Windforce, and you'll get around the same Strafe breakpoints. The only difference would be if you wanted to use Multiple Shot or something.
As I remember, the choice item to socket a Windforce with was a Ruby Jewel of Fervor. 40% enhanced damage topped with a 15% increased attack speed works MUCH better than a Shael rune.
@@Moonwired Although this was true of D2 LoD, the fact remains that a 40/15 jewel is the best choice for a socketed Windforce. Thanks for your input though.
if you do that you would need an extra item to get the missing 5 ias source from....i posted this to nother person just now but here.....Faith on A1* Merc.....Shael in WF....20% ias from Highlord Wrath.....Artisan Circlet of the Whale with 3X 15% ias 40% ED jewels......that way you get the exact amount of ias needed for hightest attack speed(7 frames)......you can also use Fort and Steelrend Gloves(60% ed//10% CB) that way.....and WF get to deal way more dmg than Faith while shooting at equal speed......total ED from aura//gear....624%.....EDIT: fixed a major miscalculation in my post....EDIT 2: alternate gear option...60 ias..160 ed armor...pride(345%)...might(230%)...8 frame instead of 7......total ED 915%...A2 Merc being use in this case......second option is about 22% more dps than using an A1 Merc with Faith.....at least for solo play....if group play the chance to be with an hammerdin is rather high...in such case an A1 merc with Faith would win
@@bllllood There’s no doubt that the rune word bow in question (in comparison to a 40/15 socketed Windforce) remains a better choice. I was simply pointing out the preference for the Ruby Jewel of Fervor over a Shael rune in D2 LoD. Thanks for your lengthy explanation.
extra reply...looked up for other nice items a bow zon can use....Razortail Belt(+10 max dmg,15 dex, piercing)....Ravenfrost...rare ring wise..best affix i could find from my notepads for a bow zon is +13 mins dmg,20 dex, 20 str,,120 AR, 15% all resist......boots are obviously Gore Rider XD
I just found a windforce last week and this is exactly the video I needed to clear up any doubts I had about the difference in the weapons. You should do more vids like this. I feel like a lot of us will strive to have the absolute BIS for a lot of builds but it looks like it’s not always necessary. especially if the differences aren’t that crazy compared to the 2nd/3rd best thing. Thanks man.
found it on a baal run. I grabbed it and then dropped it right away outta instinct bc it was a bow and all unique bows aren’t worth anything. Then everyone in the baal room sprinted over for it so I picked it back up lol. I didn’t know windforce was a hydra bow.
The physical damage output on the WF makes it a really solid bow, but I believe the +skills on the Faith edge it out in any of the elemental bow builds. also as said below GMB can go up to +3 skills. overall id say Faith has more utility than WF, however its going to take a lot of Cows to farm yourself a Ohm + Jah. online WF isn't all that uncommon because its not the preferred spec for Zons.
+skills do not increase your damage on weapon damage based skills as much as much as it does for spells. Try equipping and unequipping some B&C skillers, you won't notice a huge difference in your damage.
@@enpassant1014 false if you have an elemental zon your damage comes from skill points that's why you can solo hell with literally any Java and zap threw everything. Same with Frost zon you want levels, skills, and speed more then base damage on a weapon.
Faith is better. Ignore Target Defense is important for clearing trash mobs, plus you get two more auras with an A2 merc (Might and Concentration with Pride), as well as having an extra tank over an A1 merc.
Not at all. In a full Dex build, attack rating is not a problem, specially if trash mobs. The question is the attack speed, but you can go on 8 frames with Windforce and the max damage is higher like 2k +. It totally worth. For some fun, you can make an Iron Golem from Beast using Metalgrid, but for P1, max P3, because he will die easily in higher dificulties
@@BibiBubuish that doesn't really matter. If Windforce happens to be the best in slot item for you, then you will want to socket that with the best thing possible.
@@BibiBubuish Except you find find a 15/30'ish jewel easy, or trade for one cheaply. WF also scales MUCH better with auras and a Fortitude dues to it's rather crap base damage.
Literally just got GMB Faith with Pride for my might merc. And got 8 mana leech tiara with 3os that I'm planning to plug in 15 35s. I just put 15s for testing and it absolutely wrecks. Too fun to play
Ya bro you gotta try one like mine with the Two extra auras from merc using pride runeword and might aura. Fantiscm+concentration+might is super gg. I have that on mine along with fort on and a godly 2 zon 30 frw diadem and some gg charms and stuff.
The "reworks" of Guided Arrow really gutted it. Lost its single target dps dominance once it could no longer pierce. Lost its ability to scout around corners. Just an awful, awful set of changes. It's basically just a normal arrow without a to-hit check, but even then, it can still be blocked.
Please do a comparison for Buriza-Do Kyanon Ballista upgraded to Colossus Crossbow with 2 shaels in it. For many years I've been using this setup for Strafe and it feels far superior with Fortitude than Faith/Windforce. Let's see the truth then.
@Shiu Gen Even if so (I didn't knew because i don't play d2r) its still very power full crossbow (when upgraded) with tons of damage, and great ias. Author should try to compare it. For me it was far superior choice over a windforce and/or faith gmb.
You need shael in wf along with every other item having ias on it to hit the same ias break point as a faith mat bow with only like 45 ias added. You can't hit that ias bp without shael. I've tested this alot and the average damage of a shaeld wf versus a 40ed 15 ias jewled one. The shaeld hit one higher break point there for doing an average damage higher then the 40 15 jeweled one. Not alot but anyone saying 40 15 wf is better then shaeld is ignorant and doesn't know bowazon at all or even what break points are most likely.
If you are running WF you should also be strafe zon and hitting the 120 ias breakpoint. WF also scales MUCH harder than faith does with a pride merc. Like a couple 2k damage higher and more easily hits the 120 breakpoint.
I've always been a huge windforce fan, I think it may be my favorite item. One thing I really like about it, is it feels like you get a little more gear flexibility, especially with knockback.
I don't think ignore defense works on bosses and superuniques, not sure about champs/named. But it seems like a bowazon wouldn't have as much issue with AR against most targets since their base dex needs to be high to use their bows anyway. Also as others pointed out you can use both by putting one on your merc and wielding one yourself. So you can get the Fanaticism bonus on the higher base damage of Windforce.
Personally I run WF/Fort/Dracul's/String/Gore/Andariel's and my Bowa murders Cows and Chaos. Magic Arrow for Phys Immunes and Strafe for everything else. Especially Chaos. Only the special packs from the seals live long enough to make you somewhat work, clicking wise, for it. Also the knockback for some stupid reason is a lot stronger on Strafe than Multi.
Not sure, but the knockback only works on the two center arrow from multishot? I think WF would be better in a strafer then? Maybe? Anyways, thanks for the test, both great bows!
Plus all of those reanimated help in like chaos and baals and such. You can't beat the ignore target def either. Just hits so much more. The wf hits harder but just not as much. Faith equals out better average damage tho for sure.
Hey buddy, totally agree :) I tried WF + faith for the first time the other day, I gotta say it's quite annoying as the Merc often gets far enough away from me and I lose my fanat bonus. WF + faith is really the poor man's bowazon combo!
What do you got on for an armour? With fortitude that would boost your wind force damage a lot more then faith would it not? More raw damage on windforce
I'll take a Duress over Forti. Open Wounds, Crushing Blow, Faster Hit Recovery from Duress, beats the 300% flat dmg Forti gives and the FCR that you get from Forti is also useless on a Bowazon. Strafe is also a lot better then Multishot and saves a lot of arrows as well. With Strafe, one arrow is around 12 arrows that can all pierce enemies and every single one can proc the Crushing Blow, Open Wounds etc compared to the single or maybe 2 arrows that hit single targets because of the spread. Besides all that, Strafe also gives you some sort of "aimbot", so you don't even have to aim yourself to hit your targets. You'll see your character shoot towards every direction where there are enemies close enough to hit. If you want to equip yourself with a Faith Bow (which I would recommend over a WF), make sure you make the Faith in a Grand Mathron Bow that has +3 bow skills. The runeword is just too expensive, to waste on a lesser GMB that only has +1 or +2 bow skills. Windforce is great until you've got yourself a Faith GMB.
Keep seeing this reasoning frequently, but personally playing single-player self-found, I've encountered 6+ Jahs over the years and already built Enigma, Infinity, Beast and still have some Jahs left. And the number of Windforces I've found through all this time? 0. Still grinding for that grail though...
@@Dake1989 Yeah of course, in SP it's all about what you can find. But online there is a market, so it's all about supply and demand. Both items are rare but JAH is in very high demand, Windforce usually is not.
my bowzon is kinda stuck with windforce. shes rocking gface and gores(i know crushing blow % is lowered from 12% to 6% but when you shoot so many targets and so frequently its still good to stack that juicy 50% from gores/gface) you also get deadlystrike. but its still not enough vs hellcows. i "can" kill them but the clear speeds are pretty god awful. im a firm believer you need fort to really make it function properly. i need a couple 40/15 jewels to throw in my windforce (upgrade from shael) and in gface. it still just feels fairly underwhelming to me at this current moment which sucks. my javzon is way more budget and shits on hellcows.
Get or make yourself a Duress armor, the Crushing Blow, Open Wounds and 40% FHR beats the flat 300% dmg increase and the FCR on Forti is also a waste on a Bowazon. Try to find a "Giant Skull, Bone Visage" helmet with 2 sockets and you'll have the Knockback that's missing on a Faith Bow and 10% extra Crushing Blow. If you're rich enough or lucky enough to find/get 2x 40/15 ias jewels you've got yourself a killer helmet. Edit: A Good Bowazon is very expensive, hence nobody starts with a Bowazon.
@@viviblaat5831 duress also doesnt do enough damage. regardless of which one i read lol. it has like 20% ED vs the fort 300%. and again i already have 50% crushing blow/deadly strike. i dont need more 6% hp procs, i need more raw damage. which pretty much only comes from fort.
WF should have a 40 ED 15 IAS jewel in it, and you should be using a Jeweler's Tiara of Speed with 3x 40 ED 15 IAS jewels in it. Thats an extra 160 ED that should scale better with WF's higher base damage.
No offense to the channel of course, he seems to be a new-ish player, but I think you're expecting a little bit too much from him. Nice guy and his content is decent but it definitely glosses over the finer details and I have to restrain myself in pointing it out like an ass xD
Don't forget a full inventory of 3/20/20s either while you're at it to make the comparison with 120 extra max damage and dump all your points in dex going base vit.
try farming these zones :).....Chaos Sanc, Worldstone Keep 1-3+throne, Temples from these 3 following zones(Kurast,Upper Kurast,Kurast Causeway), Pindleskin,River of Flames....thats where you can find all of the super rare uniques(all of these place are lvl 85 areas and thats where the best uniques drop)....there are other lvl 85 areas but these ones are pretty much instant access without having to play "hide and seek".....anything outside those temples from A3 cant drop any good Uniques.....additionnaly only kill minions packs,champion packs,elite and super elite enemies(aka pack leaders)...and lastly ghostly mobs from A4 onward in Hell....... regular mobs that ain't bound to a pack or isn't a champion are unable to drop the best Uniques(for most of them that is) on top of having 25 time worse drop rate(not a joke)......Ghost mobs are entirely unable to drop Uniques btw ! but they have much highter chance to drop an HR due to that..........if your goal is mainly to farm HR......Travincal and Durance 3(Trav guys in Durance 3) are the 2 best spot for it.....the chest behind Meph is also great for lower HR like Vex,Ohm,Lo,Sur but cant pop a Ber,Jah or Cham......the Trav guys can drop ALL HR except for Zod...........best spot for Zod is the Worldstone Keep...........Chaos Sanctuary is a great mix between HR and top quality Unique(third best place for HR and best place for Uniques).....areas that you should avoid......Arcane Sanctuary(while it has lots of ghost in there....they cannot drop runes above a Lo(so no Sur,Ber,Jah or Cham from it).....Ancients tunnels(while its a lvl 85 area....its a pain to find the entrance despite the spot being popular among certain players
How's either to equip Act 1 merc? I cleared normal with act 1 merc and enjoy walking into a room and meeting her do her thing while I relax and take in the view... Ie, searching the drops.
Windforce is something I always wanted to find ever since I played D2 20 years ago and when I was farming the pit with 10% mf on my first character I found one. Was soo happy to find one and only after like 15 runs too.
Fun build idea for anyone watching. Put a faith on a kick assassin. primary skill kick and teleport kick, get shadow warrior, max fade for hidden +damage resistance, death sentry secondary (so shadow warrior casts it). Probably my favorite build. Leading up to it you can put any high elemental damage weapon on. I just imagine teleporting the spawned minions with dragon kick to be really cool.
Great series of videos! I think faith fares better due to the additional +skills - you have better vallyrie, guided arrow, immolation arrow, pierce etc. Having said all that, windforce is a trophy like very few other items!
Your stats are not the best for this build. End game Multiple Shot Bowazons should put the min str for itens, max dex, 0 vit 0 ene because the monsters can't hit her anyway. You just lost (if my calculations are correct) about 2k of raw damage which would increase significantly the speed of killing monsters. Hope this tip could improve your Bowazon a little bit. Make another comparison after this little change, I'm certain you will like the results.
Personally enjoy the Windforce more for several reasons: - it is one of these mythics D2 items - the knockback is a great defensive trick on a bowazon - You don't need to find 1 great base + high level runes to get one, it just has to drop for you to roll a bowazon.
How about a battlr of cold sorc weapons. Deaths fathom vs Occy vs Hoto vs Eldrich. Obviously deaths will win, but by how much vs the easier to get competitors.
Hi. Is this players 8 clear speed? I remember playing with WF back in the day, but it was mostly on bnet in games with password, so obv clearspeed was good, if i was on my own. But i am asking myself, if bowazone is players 8 viable(no party, just 1 player, but settings players 8) :)
@@ShrivelledHeartSoftware definitely. Seems so strange to me that they made the decision to use a blob of green snot which is identical to a cap you find at level 1 in the blood moor in all but colour, as opposed to a really intricate and interesting piece as it is in Diablo 1. Missed a trick.
A budget javazon would clear mobs about the same to a fully decked out bowazon. The boss clear speed wouldn't be contest. A fully geared Java is the strongest character in the game at all content minus ubers.
I just traded my windforce for titans. I made someone very happy lol! Being a jav zon tho I don't really mind getting a jav i need over a bow i wont use
@@Phnxkon nope! Normal Titans not even upped! They gave me a Mal rune as well so that makes only one more rune needed for my first CTA which i need ohm
@@lunabird89 my first was in the throne room killing baals minions. (Plugy) 2nd was in river of flame between 1st and 2nd way point in act 4.(plugy, a week before d2r dropped) The most recent one I got in d2r was when I was playing like 20 hours a day and barely sleeping. If I recall correctly it was in chaos sanctuary. 1 Jah in pits (plugy) 1 Jah in ancient tunnels (plugy) 1 Jah in arcane sanctuary (d2r offline)
I think 15 ias + 8 minimum dmg is better on a wf, esp combined with + 8-10 minimum dmg on a ring an d war travelers. You want to get that bottom dmg up, not the max dmg.
The circumstances where a +8 min damage IAS jewel is better for your build than a +15 max damage IAS jewel or a 40/15 (which adds 4 to 27 damage) is very slim. +max damage or Ed/IAS bonuses boost overall average damage more than +min damage will as they add more numbers. A high min damage is really only relevant if you are already 1 or 2 shotting most monsters in the game and want more consistency.
@@Bowazon which is what i'm after on p3 :-). and remember, % ed is only a bracketed modifier and need base dmg to act on. As i have +550% from WF and Fort alone, 40% more Ed (if i can even afford that lol) is only a 9% increase (the effectual difference between having 550 or 590 of the same modifier. While + min dmg ads to weapon dmg and gets multiplied by almost everything. making higher base dmg in my experience and calculations much more valuable. IF you have a decent ammount of %ED already AND a low base dmg weapon (windforce/hydra bow have the worst spread.). Faith has triple the base dmg in the right bow. But +min dmg stacking (travs + ring + jewels in wf and helm) can offset that and push windforce over the edge.
@@barryschalkwijk9388 the ED on Windforce (on-weapon ED) and fort (off-weapon ED) work differently from each other, so you can't add the ED from Windforce and fort together. On-weapon ED works by multiplying against your weapon's base damage, hence a 40%ed/IAS jewel adds 4 to 27 damage to your Windforce's weapon damage. Off-weapon ED works in the same way as how dexterity works for bows: multiplies your +min and +max that is across ALL of your gear and charms by the ED amount. So, if you have a bow that does 20-40 damage (10-20 base damage with 100%ed), war travs (15-25 damage) and fort (300ed) and 100 dexterity, the calculation is: (35-65 damage) X (1 + 3 + 1) If you then add a 40% Ed/IAS jewel to the bow: (35-65 + 4-8 damage) X (1 + 3 + 1) If you instead add that 40% Ed/IAS jewel to a helm: (35-65 damage) X (1 + 3 + 1 + 0.4)
@@barryschalkwijk9388 so, if you're socketing a WF: +8min damage jewel adds 8 min damage to your weapon +15max damage jewel adds 15 max damage to your weapon +40%ed jewel adds 4 to 27 damage to your weapon, whether you have a fort or not doesn't change this
@@Bowazon hmm. that's true. on weapon %ed is separate. I was thinking too much from my new ring perspective. But still that's 4 less min dmg and windforce has plenty max dmg as is. Gonna have to try it out on sp and see what feels better.
@@finalcam1740 he's got a point though, given the rune investment required for Faith, why would anyone bother when Javazon clears way faster for way cheaper. If you stumble across a windforce, I can understand using it, but faith seems like wasted opportunity to me.
@@Zubriel why would anyone bother? It's a game, and people have preferences. That's why people play other builds other than Javazons. Plus the comment is irrelevant to the topic of the video.
Normally you mix It with fortitude and other extra ED, plus might mercenary with pride = 10k dmg. That clear almost as fast cows BUT no inmunes, so you can clear everything (magic arrow lv20 does the 5%). Lightning inmunes are everywhere
@@Zubriel this isn't a video about what's the most efficient use of your resources. Some players want to make whatever character they want. And some players have already made the meta options and are branching out to have fun. This video is simply to discuss which option is better, faith or windforce. There's lots to be discussed within that topic why derail it.
It can get pretty gnarly. With WF/Fort and a lot of 100 Poison SCs I'm running 5k Magic Arrow and 4.2k Strafe. She mows through Chaos like it's nobody's business. Mows through cows too. The knockback is a lot stronger on Strafe than it is for Multi for some weird reason. Strafe also does more damage than Multi.
so i only play bowzon because thats what i played when i was a kid.... yes faith is MUCH better, but youre not hitting the max IAS breakpoint with faith on. need a 45 ias helm, replace razortail with nosferatu, and throw on laying of hands. with faith you only need 95 IAS to hit max Attack speed. it will blow WF out of the water
This guy is like the Bob Ross of commentating Diablo 2. "Nice little herds"
Bro, same thought 😂
Happy lil cows
I came here to say this. 😂
I'd hate to ask you to do this again seeing as how you literally just did it. But could you do a comparison of Windforce + Faith merc vs Faith + might merc and see how those differ?
Don´t try that. The by far superiour option is a Might merc with runeword pride and you use a faith yourself.
Yeah faith is way better when you add a merc added to the equation
I'd like to see this too but with an added third bow which would be a a 5% ctc amp 450% ed 2 os 20% ias rare bow with a faith merc and 45/120 helmet plus atma's scarab for a total of 10% ctc amp.
i had this guy be recommended a few time now but every video i've watched he just mess something up
@@TheGothsta You can also use that with Windforce, and you'll get around the same Strafe breakpoints. The only difference would be if you wanted to use Multiple Shot or something.
a lot of people go with WF + Ranger merc with faith for the bonus Fan aura, but nonetheless faith is an amazing RW when you have a GM +3 bow
Faith with merc 2act pride rw (might aura + concentration aura) Much more dmg than WF with Fanatism.
@@modulo001 what about might aura with reapers toll?
What's gm?
Gm= grand matron bow
@@anthonysementelli183 what I am using and it's my preferred setup. Highest dmg on proc and removes physical immunities
As I remember, the choice item to socket a Windforce with was a Ruby Jewel of Fervor. 40% enhanced damage topped with a 15% increased attack speed works MUCH better than a Shael rune.
In an overly saturated duped world ruby jewels of fevor were much more common, then the actually ridiculous low drop rate that is reality ;)
@@Moonwired Although this was true of D2 LoD, the fact remains that a 40/15 jewel is the best choice for a socketed Windforce. Thanks for your input though.
if you do that you would need an extra item to get the missing 5 ias source from....i posted this to nother person just now but here.....Faith on A1* Merc.....Shael in WF....20% ias from Highlord Wrath.....Artisan Circlet of the Whale with 3X 15% ias 40% ED jewels......that way you get the exact amount of ias needed for hightest attack speed(7 frames)......you can also use Fort and Steelrend Gloves(60% ed//10% CB) that way.....and WF get to deal way more dmg than Faith while shooting at equal speed......total ED from aura//gear....624%.....EDIT: fixed a major miscalculation in my post....EDIT 2: alternate gear option...60 ias..160 ed armor...pride(345%)...might(230%)...8 frame instead of 7......total ED 915%...A2 Merc being use in this case......second option is about 22% more dps than using an A1 Merc with Faith.....at least for solo play....if group play the chance to be with an hammerdin is rather high...in such case an A1 merc with Faith would win
@@bllllood There’s no doubt that the rune word bow in question (in comparison to a 40/15 socketed Windforce) remains a better choice. I was simply pointing out the preference for the Ruby Jewel of Fervor over a Shael rune in D2 LoD. Thanks for your lengthy explanation.
extra reply...looked up for other nice items a bow zon can use....Razortail Belt(+10 max dmg,15 dex, piercing)....Ravenfrost...rare ring wise..best affix i could find from my notepads for a bow zon is +13 mins dmg,20 dex, 20 str,,120 AR, 15% all resist......boots are obviously Gore Rider XD
You're the Bob Ross of D2R
Grand Matron Bow can be found with +3 to skills so Faith can get you up to +5
they sure can and I have one 4o soc :D
Omg and here I thought I was doing good with the plus a bone spear on the necro
Skills dont do much for you
who needs + skill on a bowazaon xD
I just found a windforce last week and this is exactly the video I needed to clear up any doubts I had about the difference in the weapons. You should do more vids like this. I feel like a lot of us will strive to have the absolute BIS for a lot of builds but it looks like it’s not always necessary. especially if the differences aren’t that crazy compared to the 2nd/3rd best thing. Thanks man.
sweet bro! this is actually really a fun kind of video to do to, congrats btw, windforce is legit uber rare, well done
Dang nice. I dont think I've seen ANY hydra bows at all yet
Found one on pod once. First one ever. Corrupted it for only 3 sockets. Still very nice.
Where you find ?
found it on a baal run. I grabbed it and then dropped it right away outta instinct bc it was a bow and all unique bows aren’t worth anything. Then everyone in the baal room sprinted over for it so I picked it back up lol. I didn’t know windforce was a hydra bow.
The physical damage output on the WF makes it a really solid bow, but I believe the +skills on the Faith edge it out in any of the elemental bow builds. also as said below GMB can go up to +3 skills. overall id say Faith has more utility than WF, however its going to take a lot of Cows to farm yourself a Ohm + Jah. online WF isn't all that uncommon because its not the preferred spec for Zons.
+skills do not increase your damage on weapon damage based skills as much as much as it does for spells. Try equipping and unequipping some B&C skillers, you won't notice a huge difference in your damage.
@@enpassant1014 false if you have an elemental zon your damage comes from skill points that's why you can solo hell with literally any Java and zap threw everything. Same with Frost zon you want levels, skills, and speed more then base damage on a weapon.
@@whodeyfps478 Those skills are not weapon damage based. Most of your damage is from the skill itself.
Faith is better. Ignore Target Defense is important for clearing trash mobs, plus you get two more auras with an A2 merc (Might and Concentration with Pride), as well as having an extra tank over an A1 merc.
Not at all. In a full Dex build, attack rating is not a problem, specially if trash mobs. The question is the attack speed, but you can go on 8 frames with Windforce and the max damage is higher like 2k +. It totally worth. For some fun, you can make an Iron Golem from Beast using Metalgrid, but for P1, max P3, because he will die easily in higher dificulties
I think this should be redone with a 40/15 in the WF. That was the choice of socket
That jewel is way more expensive than the WF. I think it might actually be extremely expensive.
@@BibiBubuish that doesn't really matter. If Windforce happens to be the best in slot item for you, then you will want to socket that with the best thing possible.
@@BibiBubuish Except you find find a 15/30'ish jewel easy, or trade for one cheaply. WF also scales MUCH better with auras and a Fortitude dues to it's rather crap base damage.
Literally just got GMB Faith with Pride for my might merc. And got 8 mana leech tiara with 3os that I'm planning to plug in 15 35s. I just put 15s for testing and it absolutely wrecks. Too fun to play
Dude sounds like Bob Ross playing D2R.
Windforce and Faith need different setups. Not just on gear choices for the character itself, but on the choice of mercenary and mercenary gear.
Whats a better merc for a windforce zon, a2 might merc with pride or a1 merc with faith?
Act 2 merc has overall more DPS (might + pride) but if speed is important to you, then Act 1 faith merc.
Ya bro you gotta try one like mine with the Two extra auras from merc using pride runeword and might aura. Fantiscm+concentration+might is super gg. I have that on mine along with fort on and a godly 2 zon 30 frw diadem and some gg charms and stuff.
make a vid if its so good
Hey, nice vid ! Why no merc with might? Also, is there any chance you can clear something with this build in players 8?
I have uploaded some players 8 runs with my bowazon if you're still looking for this.
Lol I was thinking about faith and this came up. Nice video 😁
Awesome vid, I'm wondering though, if you find a white hydra bow and charsi (turn unique) does that garentee it will scale up to a windforce?
Charsi imbue quest makes it a rare not a unique so no. Only way to get a WF is to find or trade for one.
Great video, I miss windforce+guided arrow+pierce
Yeah that was nice to see arrows going through the same target repeatedly
The "reworks" of Guided Arrow really gutted it. Lost its single target dps dominance once it could no longer pierce. Lost its ability to scout around corners. Just an awful, awful set of changes. It's basically just a normal arrow without a to-hit check, but even then, it can still be blocked.
Lv 20 magic arrow does the trick
It really nerfed buriza, that’s for sure!
@@ms.aelanwyr.ilaicos giving that back would make bowazons viable sgain...
LoL...love the photo finish, and the Faith No More reference!
Amazing I was actually debating what to use I have windforce just don't have faith was gonna try to get runes
What gear are you wearing? And why not strafe?
Great video!
Could you try the same with Strafe? You're capping out your frames with Fana 15 on a GMB, without any IAS on your gear.
the faith no more reference was solid
Love the videos !!! Can you do a video explaining middle damage and possibly a good way to stop the damage
Please do a comparison for Buriza-Do Kyanon Ballista upgraded to Colossus Crossbow with 2 shaels in it.
For many years I've been using this setup for Strafe and it feels far superior with Fortitude than Faith/Windforce.
Let's see the truth then.
How do you 2x shael a buriza oO?
@@shiugen676I don't remember to be honest if 1 or 2 but Larzuk can put 2 sockets in it if I'm not mistaken.
@@Poi_Hunter D2R you can 1 socket uniques
@Shiu Gen Even if so (I didn't knew because i don't play d2r) its still very power full crossbow (when upgraded) with tons of damage, and great ias. Author should try to compare it. For me it was far superior choice over a windforce and/or faith gmb.
Even with one socket, I'm curious to try that. Certainly would be cheaper than faith, and I'm poor in this game.
You need shael in wf along with every other item having ias on it to hit the same ias break point as a faith mat bow with only like 45 ias added. You can't hit that ias bp without shael. I've tested this alot and the average damage of a shaeld wf versus a 40ed 15 ias jewled one. The shaeld hit one higher break point there for doing an average damage higher then the 40 15 jeweled one. Not alot but anyone saying 40 15 wf is better then shaeld is ignorant and doesn't know bowazon at all or even what break points are most likely.
If you are running WF you should also be strafe zon and hitting the 120 ias breakpoint. WF also scales MUCH harder than faith does with a pride merc. Like a couple 2k damage higher and more easily hits the 120 breakpoint.
I've always been a huge windforce fan, I think it may be my favorite item. One thing I really like about it, is it feels like you get a little more gear flexibility, especially with knockback.
You sacrifice res and stat points though due to high requirements. So it kinda evens out.
in the end, what is the best ama weapon ? windforce or faith?
I don't think ignore defense works on bosses and superuniques, not sure about champs/named. But it seems like a bowazon wouldn't have as much issue with AR against most targets since their base dex needs to be high to use their bows anyway. Also as others pointed out you can use both by putting one on your merc and wielding one yourself. So you can get the Fanaticism bonus on the higher base damage of Windforce.
Personally I run WF/Fort/Dracul's/String/Gore/Andariel's and my Bowa murders Cows and Chaos. Magic Arrow for Phys Immunes and Strafe for everything else. Especially Chaos. Only the special packs from the seals live long enough to make you somewhat work, clicking wise, for it. Also the knockback for some stupid reason is a lot stronger on Strafe than Multi.
Not sure, but the knockback only works on the two center arrow from multishot? I think WF would be better in a strafer then? Maybe? Anyways, thanks for the test, both great bows!
Plus all of those reanimated help in like chaos and baals and such. You can't beat the ignore target def either. Just hits so much more. The wf hits harder but just not as much. Faith equals out better average damage tho for sure.
Hey buddy, totally agree :) I tried WF + faith for the first time the other day, I gotta say it's quite annoying as the Merc often gets far enough away from me and I lose my fanat bonus. WF + faith is really the poor man's bowazon combo!
The take down speed seemed a little low.. and i just use an upgraded buriza.. whats the rest of your equipment?
Awesome video you should do more like this
What do you got on for an armour? With fortitude that would boost your wind force damage a lot more then faith would it not? More raw damage on windforce
I'll take a Duress over Forti.
Open Wounds, Crushing Blow, Faster Hit Recovery from Duress, beats the 300% flat dmg Forti gives and the FCR that you get from Forti is also useless on a Bowazon.
Strafe is also a lot better then Multishot and saves a lot of arrows as well. With Strafe, one arrow is around 12 arrows that can all pierce enemies and every single one can proc the Crushing Blow, Open Wounds etc compared to the single or maybe 2 arrows that hit single targets because of the spread.
Besides all that, Strafe also gives you some sort of "aimbot", so you don't even have to aim yourself to hit your targets. You'll see your character shoot towards every direction where there are enemies close enough to hit.
If you want to equip yourself with a Faith Bow (which I would recommend over a WF), make sure you make the Faith in a Grand Mathron Bow that has +3 bow skills.
The runeword is just too expensive, to waste on a lesser GMB that only has +1 or +2 bow skills. Windforce is great until you've got yourself a Faith GMB.
What Items u use and how did you skill the tree??
wow ask for this video on a thursday and its up on a friday, now THAT is a good turn around time :)
bwha! i aim to please, and with over 10k attack rating... well, the math speaks for itself.
What players setting did you do these on?
Faith no more reference brought me back! And I binged them abit afterwards hahah
Why not cube socket the Windforce? I think that'd be the comparison. Why larzuk a wf? Ias jewels or shaels, ohms, etc
He did. But "just" a shael
@@cotasa if you cube socket it, you can get 6 socket WF
Windforce is my choice simply because its actually possible to get. Burning an Ohm and a Jah on a bowazon is really kinda crazy :D
Keep seeing this reasoning frequently, but personally playing single-player self-found, I've encountered 6+ Jahs over the years and already built Enigma, Infinity, Beast and still have some Jahs left. And the number of Windforces I've found through all this time? 0. Still grinding for that grail though...
@@Dake1989 Yeah of course, in SP it's all about what you can find. But online there is a market, so it's all about supply and demand. Both items are rare but JAH is in very high demand, Windforce usually is not.
try also to compare this with freezing arrow build. the 4 skill-levels on the GMB should make a much more noticeable difference
Can you do the same comparison against the Baal with these two bows please!
my bowzon is kinda stuck with windforce. shes rocking gface and gores(i know crushing blow % is lowered from 12% to 6% but when you shoot so many targets and so frequently its still good to stack that juicy 50% from gores/gface) you also get deadlystrike. but its still not enough vs hellcows. i "can" kill them but the clear speeds are pretty god awful. im a firm believer you need fort to really make it function properly. i need a couple 40/15 jewels to throw in my windforce (upgrade from shael) and in gface. it still just feels fairly underwhelming to me at this current moment which sucks. my javzon is way more budget and shits on hellcows.
Get or make yourself a Duress armor, the Crushing Blow, Open Wounds and 40% FHR beats the flat 300% dmg increase and the FCR on Forti is also a waste on a Bowazon.
Try to find a "Giant Skull, Bone Visage" helmet with 2 sockets and you'll have the Knockback that's missing on a Faith Bow and 10% extra Crushing Blow. If you're rich enough or lucky enough to find/get 2x 40/15 ias jewels you've got yourself a killer helmet.
Edit: A Good Bowazon is very expensive, hence nobody starts with a Bowazon.
You can also use the elemental skills which scale off of +skills mainly. The main ones auto hit I believe. (freezing and exploding)
@@viviblaat5831 treach doesnt add more damage than fort bro lol
@@dakotahsteier5481 I didn't say Treachery?
Smoked a bit too much? Puff puff pass! :D
@@viviblaat5831 duress also doesnt do enough damage. regardless of which one i read lol. it has like 20% ED vs the fort 300%. and again i already have 50% crushing blow/deadly strike. i dont need more 6% hp procs, i need more raw damage. which pretty much only comes from fort.
WF should have a 40 ED 15 IAS jewel in it, and you should be using a Jeweler's Tiara of Speed with 3x 40 ED 15 IAS jewels in it. Thats an extra 160 ED that should scale better with WF's higher base damage.
No offense to the channel of course, he seems to be a new-ish player, but I think you're expecting a little bit too much from him. Nice guy and his content is decent but it definitely glosses over the finer details and I have to restrain myself in pointing it out like an ass xD
Don't forget a full inventory of 3/20/20s either while you're at it to make the comparison with 120 extra max damage and dump all your points in dex going base vit.
you ppl always come up with the 40/15, but apparently don't know that the 15 ias only have any effect if you actually reach a breakpoint..
Funny, I still have never found a windforce before. Or the GF sword.
try farming these zones :).....Chaos Sanc, Worldstone Keep 1-3+throne, Temples from these 3 following zones(Kurast,Upper Kurast,Kurast Causeway), Pindleskin,River of Flames....thats where you can find all of the super rare uniques(all of these place are lvl 85 areas and thats where the best uniques drop)....there are other lvl 85 areas but these ones are pretty much instant access without having to play "hide and seek".....anything outside those temples from A3 cant drop any good Uniques.....additionnaly only kill minions packs,champion packs,elite and super elite enemies(aka pack leaders)...and lastly ghostly mobs from A4 onward in Hell....... regular mobs that ain't bound to a pack or isn't a champion are unable to drop the best Uniques(for most of them that is) on top of having 25 time worse drop rate(not a joke)......Ghost mobs are entirely unable to drop Uniques btw ! but they have much highter chance to drop an HR due to that..........if your goal is mainly to farm HR......Travincal and Durance 3(Trav guys in Durance 3) are the 2 best spot for it.....the chest behind Meph is also great for lower HR like Vex,Ohm,Lo,Sur but cant pop a Ber,Jah or Cham......the Trav guys can drop ALL HR except for Zod...........best spot for Zod is the Worldstone Keep...........Chaos Sanctuary is a great mix between HR and top quality Unique(third best place for HR and best place for Uniques).....areas that you should avoid......Arcane Sanctuary(while it has lots of ghost in there....they cannot drop runes above a Lo(so no Sur,Ber,Jah or Cham from it).....Ancients tunnels(while its a lvl 85 area....its a pain to find the entrance despite the spot being popular among certain players
Found one in the pits the other day, proceeded to gear up the zon like it was .09 and wreck some cows.
Shout out to Faith No More. Incredible band.
Please do grief vs death cleaver. Both ww and frenzy. I hear it's really good for a unique.
This is for everyone in the comment section. If you had one rune or jewel to put into windforce . Wich one would be the best ?
For multishot: 30ed/10min/18max jewel.
@@Bowazon oh very nice
can you do a comparison of all the cold armors for the sorc please ?!
How's either to equip Act 1 merc? I cleared normal with act 1 merc and enjoy walking into a room and meeting her do her thing while I relax and take in the view... Ie, searching the drops.
Windforce is something I always wanted to find ever since I played D2 20 years ago and when I was farming the pit with 10% mf on my first character I found one. Was soo happy to find one and only after like 15 runs too.
I found one doing a discord stream, wasn't evening Magic finding I was kill random mobs lol.
How about faith on act1 merc and character using windforce?
Vs character using faith with might A2 merc using Pride?
the return as reanimated draw enemy attention so Faith wins in my book
Yeah, the more distractions you can get the better off one can fair. Especially once you start doing hell runs.
how is it if you have buriza with elly wearing the fanatism bow?
Fun build idea for anyone watching. Put a faith on a kick assassin. primary skill kick and teleport kick, get shadow warrior, max fade for hidden +damage resistance, death sentry secondary (so shadow warrior casts it). Probably my favorite build. Leading up to it you can put any high elemental damage weapon on. I just imagine teleporting the spawned minions with dragon kick to be really cool.
Could you do a Strafe and or Multishot zon with faith on merc and windforce on char vs faith on char and standard act 2 merc setup?
was just thinking along those lines, hmmm =]
i know it doesnt make sense to do BUT if you have a merc with faith and use wind force would it be alot better than say act2 dmg merc and faith?
That makes a lot of sense actually and people do that all the time. Very strong.
The irony is that a a lightning fury Javazon with a magic jav could clear cows faster than both WF and faith.
Not really ironic. Cow farming is a well-known strength of the javazon
Yes! Maybe he could’ve farmed a placed where bowazons flourish to better showcase the strengths of WF vs Faith.
@@steve-ok2090 He wasn't using strafe or multishot either for the comparison to make it easier to see the difference.
Java are better hands down but only if u don t fall asleep in 5 min.
What’s a wind force worth on d2r? Can I get one for an ist ?
Yes
maybe...
Great series of videos! I think faith fares better due to the additional +skills - you have better vallyrie, guided arrow, immolation arrow, pierce etc. Having said all that, windforce is a trophy like very few other items!
Who uses guided arrow anymore? (past .09)
Next up: WHERE TO FIND WINDFORCE IN DIABLO 2 RESSURECTED xD
jk, good content, as always!
Eldritch that's where I found mine
Found mine in halls of pain
All mLvl 85 areas.
uniqe monster in River of flame dropped mine 8%
you need to do these comparisons with elemental attacks also. Faith is probably better on an Ice / Fire Bowazon.
Your stats are not the best for this build.
End game Multiple Shot Bowazons should put the min str for itens, max dex, 0 vit 0 ene because the monsters can't hit her anyway. You just lost (if my calculations are correct) about 2k of raw damage which would increase significantly the speed of killing monsters.
Hope this tip could improve your Bowazon a little bit.
Make another comparison after this little change, I'm certain you will like the results.
im always too late for a working discord link
Personally enjoy the Windforce more for several reasons:
- it is one of these mythics D2 items
- the knockback is a great defensive trick on a bowazon
- You don't need to find 1 great base + high level runes to get one, it just has to drop for you to roll a bowazon.
"unique" not "mythic"... But yes, it was also an amazing bow back in Diablo 1. It's got a lot of history behind it.
@@RareFXChrisC The item has been a myth for many people aka it's mythic, not speaking about quality of the item here......
How about a battlr of cold sorc weapons. Deaths fathom vs Occy vs Hoto vs Eldrich. Obviously deaths will win, but by how much vs the easier to get competitors.
Edit: the frame by frame is nice to see, makes it more scientific, especially if you do the sorc weapon blizzard testing.
Hi. Is this players 8 clear speed? I remember playing with WF back in the day, but it was mostly on bnet in games with password, so obv clearspeed was good, if i was on my own. But i am asking myself, if bowazone is players 8 viable(no party, just 1 player, but settings players 8) :)
not viable. i´d say to get decent clearspeed max 3 players.
Definitely players 8 viable. I have players 8 bowazon video uploads of cows, Chaos and WSK.
Windforce cause it's name hold much more sentiment to me
great vid, id like to see the two being compared in e.g. chaos sanctuary; windforce chaos sanctuary clear time, faith clear time
2:28 "Ignores Target Defense"... this would be so much nicer if it would work on Bosses.
Windforce jumps when the merc has a faith bow
Also, when you have 40/15 armor(head and chest). And wf socket with JAH rune.
The most criminal thing about Windforce is that they never used the original art from Diablo 1 for it
I think this about harlequin crest too
@@ShrivelledHeartSoftware definitely. Seems so strange to me that they made the decision to use a blob of green snot which is identical to a cap you find at level 1 in the blood moor in all but colour, as opposed to a really intricate and interesting piece as it is in Diablo 1. Missed a trick.
Or how does a decked out bowazon compare to a fully geared javazon?
A budget javazon would clear mobs about the same to a fully decked out bowazon. The boss clear speed wouldn't be contest.
A fully geared Java is the strongest character in the game at all content minus ubers.
how about WF and a faith merc?
last wish/death vs dual griefs on frenzy barb?
what about runeword phoenix ?
I've also heard that, similar to fire wall, in d2r you can reach 6F with matriarchal bow. Can someone confirm that.
For me the Brand Runeword is the best. I dont know why its not mentioned anywhere.
gotta also see what happens with etherial + zod windforce
Bows cannot be eth
@@viridissea Thanks! had no idea
the knockback is pretty good and usefull on the wf
I'm surprised you didn't grab an A1 merc and put the faith on her while wielding the WF.
Is “Stanima” the new “Vampirebrace?!” Let’s take a roll call lol
I just traded my windforce for titans. I made someone very happy lol! Being a jav zon tho I don't really mind getting a jav i need over a bow i wont use
Boy I hope the titans were eth with high ED
@@Phnxkon nope! Normal Titans not even upped! They gave me a Mal rune as well so that makes only one more rune needed for my first CTA which i need ohm
Id say reanimate of faith is probably very similar to the knockback on windforce, both serve as defensive mods
surprised you didn't test wf with merc faith.
“Gotta have faith” lol
Wf on your char and faith on merc is ideal
love the puns. keep em coming :)
I have found 3x 8% windforce in my single-player journey and 3 Jah runes. Coincidence?
Where you find them ?
@@lunabird89 my first was in the throne room killing baals minions. (Plugy)
2nd was in river of flame between 1st and 2nd way point in act 4.(plugy, a week before d2r dropped)
The most recent one I got in d2r was when I was playing like 20 hours a day and barely sleeping. If I recall correctly it was in chaos sanctuary.
1 Jah in pits (plugy)
1 Jah in ancient tunnels (plugy)
1 Jah in arcane sanctuary (d2r offline)
Ok so I just found another 8% windforce. In the pits this time.
@@ImAussieMate woah dude niceee . I have only found 1 wf in ancient tunnels
Whenever I play Amazon I always javs, so this was actually really helpful for if I make a bowzon.
Invite still wrong on discord
I think 15 ias + 8 minimum dmg is better on a wf, esp combined with + 8-10 minimum dmg on a ring an d war travelers. You want to get that bottom dmg up, not the max dmg.
The circumstances where a +8 min damage IAS jewel is better for your build than a +15 max damage IAS jewel or a 40/15 (which adds 4 to 27 damage) is very slim.
+max damage or Ed/IAS bonuses boost overall average damage more than +min damage will as they add more numbers.
A high min damage is really only relevant if you are already 1 or 2 shotting most monsters in the game and want more consistency.
@@Bowazon which is what i'm after on p3 :-). and remember, % ed is only a bracketed modifier and need base dmg to act on. As i have +550% from WF and Fort alone, 40% more Ed (if i can even afford that lol) is only a 9% increase (the effectual difference between having 550 or 590 of the same modifier. While + min dmg ads to weapon dmg and gets multiplied by almost everything. making higher base dmg in my experience and calculations much more valuable. IF you have a decent ammount of %ED already AND a low base dmg weapon (windforce/hydra bow have the worst spread.). Faith has triple the base dmg in the right bow. But +min dmg stacking (travs + ring + jewels in wf and helm) can offset that and push windforce over the edge.
@@barryschalkwijk9388 the ED on Windforce (on-weapon ED) and fort (off-weapon ED) work differently from each other, so you can't add the ED from Windforce and fort together.
On-weapon ED works by multiplying against your weapon's base damage, hence a 40%ed/IAS jewel adds 4 to 27 damage to your Windforce's weapon damage.
Off-weapon ED works in the same way as how dexterity works for bows: multiplies your +min and +max that is across ALL of your gear and charms by the ED amount.
So, if you have a bow that does 20-40 damage (10-20 base damage with 100%ed), war travs (15-25 damage) and fort (300ed) and 100 dexterity, the calculation is:
(35-65 damage) X (1 + 3 + 1)
If you then add a 40% Ed/IAS jewel to the bow:
(35-65 + 4-8 damage) X (1 + 3 + 1)
If you instead add that 40% Ed/IAS jewel to a helm:
(35-65 damage) X (1 + 3 + 1 + 0.4)
@@barryschalkwijk9388 so, if you're socketing a WF:
+8min damage jewel adds 8 min damage to your weapon
+15max damage jewel adds 15 max damage to your weapon
+40%ed jewel adds 4 to 27 damage to your weapon, whether you have a fort or not doesn't change this
@@Bowazon hmm. that's true. on weapon %ed is separate. I was thinking too much from my new ring perspective. But still that's 4 less min dmg and windforce has plenty max dmg as is. Gonna have to try it out on sp and see what feels better.
Like 50 shots to take down a pack of cows vs 1-2 lightning fury's... not to mention LF is much more satisfying... javazon ftw
This is a video about windforce vs faith. Nothing to do with javazon.
@@finalcam1740 he's got a point though, given the rune investment required for Faith, why would anyone bother when Javazon clears way faster for way cheaper.
If you stumble across a windforce, I can understand using it, but faith seems like wasted opportunity to me.
@@Zubriel why would anyone bother? It's a game, and people have preferences. That's why people play other builds other than Javazons.
Plus the comment is irrelevant to the topic of the video.
Normally you mix It with fortitude and other extra ED, plus might mercenary with pride = 10k dmg. That clear almost as fast cows BUT no inmunes, so you can clear everything (magic arrow lv20 does the 5%). Lightning inmunes are everywhere
@@Zubriel this isn't a video about what's the most efficient use of your resources. Some players want to make whatever character they want. And some players have already made the meta options and are branching out to have fun.
This video is simply to discuss which option is better, faith or windforce. There's lots to be discussed within that topic why derail it.
Always preferred the javelin over bow. But after seeing this I might give a bow build a shot.
because you like taking your time?
It can get pretty gnarly. With WF/Fort and a lot of 100 Poison SCs I'm running 5k Magic Arrow and 4.2k Strafe. She mows through Chaos like it's nobody's business. Mows through cows too. The knockback is a lot stronger on Strafe than it is for Multi for some weird reason. Strafe also does more damage than Multi.
so i only play bowzon because thats what i played when i was a kid....
yes faith is MUCH better, but youre not hitting the max IAS breakpoint with faith on.
need a 45 ias helm, replace razortail with nosferatu, and throw on laying of hands.
with faith you only need 95 IAS to hit max Attack speed. it will blow WF out of the water
With Faith you could give your A2 merc who has might also Pride rune word, for even more dmg. Shouldn't Faith win then with ease?
I get big Bob Ross vibes from this guy
Is faith only available in ladder?
There's no ladder only anything in d2r they removed those requirements