They are going to tax them in the next few years, and I bet they will charge you by the mile or something like that, they will just link it to the gps computer, they have to get their money back somehow as not many people will be buying petrol or diesel.
You are not keeping up.......sunaks government have employed over 6oo new civil servants whose sole purpose is to create a NEW ved FOR ALL ELECTRIC VEHICLES IN 2025 AS PER THE RECENT BUDGET.
@@FullFact548 providing you don't need to use the car, it would only power my house for 1 day, modern build with green electric heating, very expensive and power hungry
@@FullFact548 OK then, green and money hungry, my less green flat I used to live in was larger and much cheaper to keep warm with its gas central heating, this place costs a fortune to keep warm in winter with its electric heating
It doesn't matter how bad EV infrastructure is, or how bad the vehicles are, the aim is to stop us travelling, end of, regardless what we use, confined in our own districts we will easily be opressed should our zone be rebellious
Correct Norton. I laugh at people saying "we'll" all be driving electric cars. Naw, you won't be driving anything other than a bicycle. That's the plan as you say
@Lookup2Wakeup driving, private jets, massive houses and fancy holidays. Eating steaks while the masses freeze, chomp on insects and have their children brainwashed in school indoctrination centres.
Like the video pointing out the very real world draw backs. Trying to go 500 miles with low powered EV Battery would be difficult. Also the infrastructure is not getting better as more cars waiting for hours in service stations. The old Ford fiesta off you go 500 miles no problem. Love my volvo xc70 12 yrs old 102k very comfortable 40 mph motorway. Wifes Tesla model 3. Great round a city. Not very comfortable. Could not imagen using it to go to Scotland. Delusion, over hyped EV plan. They have a place but an EV bus in a city is better use off the battery pack as its use helps more people than 1 drivet. Democratically compelling.
You could solve the problem of reduced range by cutting holes in the floor, so that passengers could lower their feet and run, to assist the battery. Like the Ant Hill Mob in Wacky Races.
@@FullFact548 I suppose the reduced range might not be a problem for some people - e.g. somebody who only uses the car for work 15 miles away, and can charge at work or at home, it wouldn't matter a damn if the range dropped to 20 miles.
I did 368k miles in my Audi V6 TDi... at the end of that I sold it for a pretty sum. I calculated I spent 6 whole days filling it up with fuel and that in total the car worth around 250k to the tax office when you consider the purchase cost, parts, servicing, road tax, fuel, mot's, tyres, company car tax bla, bla. I would like to see any EV beat those numbers and still be operating at half that mileage. Thumbs up to you Geoff, you are on the right track with your Volvo and your EV analysis.
How much on servicing in those miles.Oil changes,belts,filters,injectors..Every 10-15k miles.Also brakes and discs as we all know EVs are much easier on brakes due to regen braking.
@@TeaBreak. NOPE IVE NEVER BOUGHT A DRIVE TRAIN IN MY LIFE AND IVE OWNED OVER 15 CARS , ALSO EVS HAVE DRIVETRAINS ALSO WHICH LIKELY BURN OUT SUPER FAST DO TO EVS ARE FAST OFF THE MARK PUTTING STRAIN ON ALL THE PARTS
@@lancethrust9488 Are you 6 years old? Stating ev drivetrains likely burn out is complete nonsense. As an ex-Audi Quattro driver, here is a little fact. The user manual warns about using launch control due to excessive wear on the drivetrain. Printed in black and white. An ev can launch all day long because there are no parts to wear. A fully charged battery launch is insanely rapid. Your missing out on sh1tload of fun.
We who have common sense have seen used car values doing exactly what we expected. Rising to the sensible levels as seen all over mainland Europe. Keeping what I've got for as long as possible. 2000 V70, 50000 miles, 2003 Golf 1.6 19000 miles, 2005 Golf TDi 169000 miles. Keep going Geoff. The audience is attentive.
@@FullFact548 As a cyclist I know air quality is an issue in urban places. Hybrids are complex and costly but if prices come down people will ditch their diesels - new diesel sales figures have gone down a lot. A scrappage scheme would accelerate the change.
325ci 284000 miles, 330i touring 96000 miles, 850 t5 349000 miles and going nowhere, as well as several 2 stroke motorcycles and spare engines and gearboxes for all of them stored away in the garage just in case. They'll have to kill me to part me from them.
They didn't really do much better than 55 miles when new. A chap I know bought one for his wife, living in a rural area they soon found out it was useless and got rid of it a month or 2 later.
Cornwall Council had a couple of new Leafs donated to them by when they first came out by the local dealer. After having a couple of recoveries the staff were told not to use them for journeys of more than fifty miles. Of course this meant all but short trips had to be planned, and these plans couldn't be changed once you were out. I suppose their main purpose was to convey a message as they sat outside the council offices on their chargers.
If its got 8 "bars" left, the car reckons its lost about 50% of capacity. It doesnt use a linear "battery bar" scale. But you are right about the range being not much to write home about even when new.
@@FullFact548 150 to 315 miles isn't anything to be proud of. My 16 year old 4x4 will do more than 650 miles per tank and I can use the heaters and heated seats as much as I like in the winter with minimal impact on fuel economy. In fact internal combustion engines run better and more efficient in cooler temperatures.
@@FullFact548 in answer to all your points its far more eco friendly to run and maintain old vehicles (2 of my 3 4x4s run on veg oil by the way) and at -10 degrees Celsius an internal combustion engine runs better and more efficiantly than at +20 degrees.. could you answer these...... where are the metals for your batteries mined and by who? How much pollution is produced from manufacturer of an electric vehicle and eill that ever be offset by zero emissions? How and where can these electric cars/ batteries be disposed of at the end of their life? Will you see or even care about any of those things from the confinds of your 15 minute digital utopia?
Well said Geoff. Over here in Oz, I retired 9 years ago and paid $14,000 for a 2 year old Ford Falcon (100,000km) with a 2.4 litre Ecoboost engine (the strangely unpopular 4 cylinder kit. Aussies have till recently been fascinated with their 6-cylinder 4-litre beasts.) Well, fuel economy is great. On long trips, I actually get almost 900km out of my 65-litre tank, Australia mostly being flat as a pancake. So my old beast, which I love, has hit 270,000 km now and is surely good for another 200,000 by the time I'm too old to drive. By my calcs, seeing I'm going to keep driving it as long as I'm alive, I'm going to be the most climate friendly driver in town. Also, I'm a retired accountant, and you are spot on; the resale value of EV's as they hit the 5 to 7 year mark will drop off a cliff once there are enough of them around, because no second hand car buyer is going to want to face stumping up a sure $10,000 plus battery replacement bill. And that is going to scare the living daylights out of new car EV buyers once finance companies start factoring that into lease and HP deals.
@@dcarbs2979 That's a stupid thing to say. I've just bought an MG4 and it is the most fun car to drive that I've had in forty years of driving. It corners like it's on rails and accelerates like a rocket. It makes me feel like I'm nineteen years old again. Try one! There's nothing like it!
You also get to the position where the battery is old and fails. You are then left with paying a lot of money to a private company to properly dispose of that battery which is a legal requirement on the owner.
Hard to believe that will be an issue in the forseeable future to be honest, the parts of the car are well worth paying for as scrap by various merchants. I would love to be given an EV battery or whole car for free, trust me. Can get lots of use out of the parts and resell them. Battery is most likely to break in modules, and then you can still use the good ones for solar energy storage etc.
@@vanmore5124 I doubt it, with how cheap labour is in china. A complete EV battery is almost certainly worth saving if it isnt damaged by water/fire etc.. Has to be a regulatory scam, in that they can get away with dumping it, but not recycling it... thats my take at least. If there arent enough others, Then I will open shop to collect them for free. Maybe we can go into business together, I will give you 10% commission of profits for every car you refer to me.
@@GoldenCroc If that is the case, why isn't anybody recycling old batteries? Instead they're just digging big holes and dumping them in there as a problem to be dealt with in the future.
@@ryanwilliams6526 There are companies that properly recycle them, but there are pirate companies in China who get paid then hardly do any recycling. It's common because they charge less.
Hi Geoff, I enjoy watching your UA-cam channel. I ordered a Tesla Model 3 in May of 2022. Because of our WONDERFUL President, gas went from $2.00 per gallon to $5-$7 a gallon. I stopped driving my beloved Banana yellow 1971 Chevy El Camino up and down a thirty-mile stretch of old route 66 in California and am now driving the 2022 Tesla Model 3. It does the one hundred-mile daily drive for just under $5. It is plugged in at night and ready for two hundred miles the following day. We spent about $150 per month to keep the car charged, whereas we were spending over $1000.00 a month before the Tesla (Thank you, Joe). With the price of gas doubling every couple of months and Tesla only having the Fremont, California plant producing, Tesla raised prices to reduce the incoming orders. When Austin, Berlin, and Shanghai started producing, there was no longer a need to suppress orders. Tesla rolled back most of the price increases that were put in place to reduce demand. You can now buy a new Tesla for less than what used EVs were selling for, and yes, my Model 3 is not worth what I paid for it. I am saving more on gas than the payment, so it is still a free car. I have home charging, so charging our car is easy and inexpensive. Tesla supercharge network is so simple to use that the hardest part is backing into the charging stall. Keep the videos coming!
So what your saying is a tesla is cheap to run vs a 50 year old car doing 14mpg for someone who drives ~2000miles a month. Practically any new vehicle would have saved you money there.
@@efallser123 I don't live in the UK but in the Mojave Desert of California. I drive as much as 200 miles a day. It is a 40-mile round trip to the grocery store and 60 miles to the office. In the US, even the smallest cars do not get 45MPG, and anything that can fit five adults won't get 20MPG. I went from $1000 US for gas to a $150.00 electric bill by getting the Tesla. The Tesla is stupid, fast, and comfortable. I went to lunch at 110 F (44 C). When I was done eating, I used my phone to turn the AC on in the car. When I got in, the car was a cool 75 F (24 C). I will drive what I want, and I will support your choices as well.
@@maxm8986 yes that is your choice. I am not the current gov to mandate what you drive. Not sure why you getting super defensive. It’s yours choice and if the logic works for you more power to you.
The more I watch you, the better I feel about buying a new diesel vehicle. I sold my 2010 ML300, 82,000 miles and full service record for £6700. I don’t think depreciation was too bad.
I already owned 17 cars and on EVERY one of them I made a nice profit when selling. I havent lost a single penny ever. I usually buy them when they are around 200.000km for about 2k€, i clean them, I dailydrive them, I treat them well and when I feel like something new, I sell them with around 300€ profit. In my entire car-life I havent lost a penny on a car.
You are so right about EV s !! Just a waste of money and inconvenient to own .. it's just a big catastrophe 🚙😬..I m sticking with my old Laguna 3 diesel ⛽ ,from 2007 ..drives extremely well and good gas mileage.. EV s are not the future,but in my mind I believe that alternative eco friendly fuels are // like synthetic petrol/RME diesel/ and E85 ..
@@chevchelios8582 I don’t disagree, but it won’t be like an overnight on/off switch though will it? Surely the only way they can force us out of our cars (especially amongst those of us who outright own them) would be to make our car tax totally unaffordable, either VED or tax on fuel. And rest assured that certainly wouldn’t end well for any government!😂 no one will ever be prising my car off me!!!
Yes, it's really inconvenient waking up each morning to discover my EV is fully charged. Not to mention paying .02 /mile for "fuel." And boy do I miss changing the oil, flushing the radiator and the transmission. Then there is the inconvenience of receiving free charging at National Parks, downtown visitors centers, hotels, restaurants, etc. I sure hate that free "fuel." Yes, owning an EV is soooooo inconvenient. ROFLMAO.
In what way? If you are talking about degradation, the Leaf is, and always was, an exception for the worse. about 1-1,5% for 10000 miles is reasonable for most other EVs.
@@fill7t1 I am sorry, I dont get what you mean. Maybe I am a bit slow, can you clarify a bit more? How did he put it, can you give an example? Because from this video and perhaps your post it seems he somewhat erroneously extrapolate the value and capacity of a very early Nissan Leaf to other EVs, when that is very far from the truth.
Nah, manufacturers don't need to do more work on EVs, they need to abandon them and move on to something like hydrogen power. The national grid won't be able to support many more EVs charging all night, cables snaking across pavements tripping up pedestrians, running out of charge when the weather turns cold, etc, etc. In fact, let's just keep petrol and diesel and ditch the Net Zero bollocks instead.
@@andybutler2291 I agree with everything you just said...except the hydrogen bit....unless of course you were extracting the urea! Lol but yeah all good on the other bits
@@bentullett6068 my brother was a milkman ... he T boned a parked car, panicked and started to drive away ... I ran after him with 8 empty bottles in my hand ... dude we need to leave a soz on his windscreen. I suspect the milk float is still running ... no lithium in the making of that thing. We will be beholdent on "friendly" nations for our childrens transportation. Go with hydrogen.
There is quite a market in retro fitting Classic cars into EVs.Usually the ICE lump in the front is knackered.Weight is very similar but performance is massively improved.Range about 150 depending on battery set up.I think it's a great way of keeping classics on the road
My nine year old vauxhall Astra, has just clocked the 100000 mile mark, Today I drove from Kent to Salisbury and back, round trip, a little shy of 200 miles, all on slightly over a quarter tank of diesel, about three gallons. The same as when it was new.😊
I can drive my MG 5 200 miles on one charge.Overnight rate £0.12 per kWh x62= £7.44.Thats about 1 gallon of dinosaur juice or 200 mpg equivalent.PS Just did it the other day and the temp was 3c.Normal range 260 miles.
Battery technology evolves very slowly. Solid-state batteries have been in development for years. Sodium ion batteries are also in development, but these won't fully replace lithium ion.
@@Richard482 Seems like car manufacturers have given up trying to squeeze more out of Li/Ion batteries now, and because customers are so concerned about range, they're just putting in bigger and bigger batteries - 100kWh or more are becoming common. When the next gen battery tech does finally drop, every single EV on the road today will be a paperweight that nobody wants. The only reason tech like Sodium/Ion batteries exist is because they're meant to be cheaper - not better, or longer range, just cheaper.
Next gen batteries ? I've been hearing that ever since the EV's started to be pushed as the future, and thats been quite a few years now. Its no different from the gag pulled by Pacific Islanders building control towers and mock aeroplanes out of Bamboo and Atap, in the hope that the Yanks will return and shower them with modern goods. Storage of electricity, much like prophecy, has always been notoriously difficult. For which read Expensive. And its likely to stay that way for at least the lifetimes of anybody here. And in the history of human progress, its always been the case that the more convenient, drives out the less convenient that went before. I cant think of any instance of the less useful prevailing over the more useful, but hey, good luck with your 'Electric Future'. :)
A very recent Dutch test with the most commonly sold EV's showed that NONE of them had the range they were advertised with. The worst one had 13% less range then advertised, brand new! The one and only car that did have the range advertised, and even a bit more, was a special edition extra range Tesla... And last but not least: don't get fooled by manufacturers claiming very short fast charging times: the faster you charge the battery, the faster is will deteriorate.
The leaf in 2012 had a range of about 80 miles. The 125 miles range is nedc range which was in no way representative of real world range. New UK figures use WLPT range which are less generous but are still about 20% short of actual usable range. This Leaf has lost battery from 80 to 55miles so it has about 69% of its battery remaining. Applying this to the BMW would give it a totally different range figure... Although as nearly every other ev out there is actively liquid cooled or heated I think battery health will be massively different depending on brand/model with some evs holding 90% charge after 10 years.
Very true, also the Leaf used batteries designed for Laptops. Battery chemistry has improved massivley over the last 12 years and now we are starting to see new batteries that have been designed specifically for EV's which increase the range of the car by 20% just from the shape of them and reduce the cost of making the packs by making the cells much larger so there is less than 20% of the cells to package and weld.
As we push for faster charging and the inherent damage that does to the cells I suspect we will not see any real world change. I think certainly that could result is wildly different capacities left in used vehicles depending on how impatient (or busy) the original owners were.
Your informed reply is lost in a see of the "I hate ev" bubble. They are just looking for the arguments supporting their preconceived opninion, not the weighing of pros and cons...
“You would have to be a very specific type of user to justify 27,000 pounds worth of depreciation” When you said that Geoff I literally spat my tea out whilst listening!
I drive a 2010 Honda Civic, my wife drives a 2001 Honda Civic. They were both our daily drivers until we retired, I spent $3K to fix up the road rash, both cars look like near new. We drive them less than 10K km total per year, they should last us until 2035 when Justin Trudope says they're illegal or we die of old age first. From all the videos of EVs catching fire I'd be terrified charging one in my garage while I sleep at night.
Another great video. You are correct to buy a car and keep it. I bought a 2004 Honda Civic to fix up and give to a relative. My relative found another car so now it’s my daily driver. I had to do work to it brakes and rotors, timing belt, water pump, and radiator. At 32 mpg. Older fuel efficient vehicles are the way to go.
Love my Honda's, wouldn't buy anything else. I had 1998 Civic I bought for £250 and ran it till mot up, 50mpg on 35 miles mainly motorway commute because it was 1.5 Vtec-e would get 53/54mpg on longer run, then took engine out and put in my HRV and best I had is 48mpg in this 2 long trips with lean burn function. So reliable too
The Govt. legislates that we can only buy EVs, but leaves us on our own when it comes to the ruinous use of them. Ironically the Leaf is right at the top of the price range of the cars I buy, but will not last anywhere near the time I expect any car I buy. ( I always get a top of the range, well looked after model and take care of as much as possible myself ).
Really interesting video. I, like many, am waiting to see how the EV world pans out. I drive a petrol hybrid and will probably get another in Jan 2024 when the lease expires. I'm just not convinced on the EV future, yet. Thanks, Geoff.
Hybrids are a good idea. You can waft around town on leccy and charge her back up on petrol on the open road. You're not putting all your eggs in the electric basket.
Our BMW 528i Touring was around £58,000 new. It now has 147,000 miles on it. WBAC valued it at £300 a while ago. As you rightly say, its range has not been affected. It requires a 12 volt battery every 4-5 years though.😂😂. Mainly because BMW thought it a good idea to put the battery in the rear instead of that nice warm engine bay. 🤔 I bet the servicing and depreciation is still better than an EV. 🙂🙂
Just an ordinary working class ex mechanic... I stuck with diesel... 1.6 citroen, cost £100..... 7 yrs ago.... Cheap to run, costs nothing on parts and has 217k on clock.. EV, LOVE THE TECH... HATE THE PRICE.
There's a lot to be said for keeping your old car. I bought a 6 year old Skoda manual diesel and I'm still driving it 17 years later. Always serviced properly, it does around 50 to the gallon as it always has and can pull a ton on the rare occasions when that's needed. It will probably keep running until the politicians kill it off in some way.
The public has quickly twigged to the fact that these things are a liability that are difficult to live with and a threat to our sanity. And because of that, they aren't worth a friggin' light.
Mate... couldnt agree more... daily driving a Mercedes W124 C320 with 179k miles on the clock. Long road trip tomorrow to the south coast... no range anxiety here ... and people will smile, wave and give me thumbs up...
@Lookup2Wakeup I love those EV fans who actually suggest this idea in chats. I always question them by asking why didn't you buy a hybrid in the first place. Although you always get the a Hybrid worse for the environment reply, hate to tell them but a small four stroke engine running unleaded standard unleaded emits more than a engine in a hybrid as there aren't any catalytic converters on small four stroke exhaust systems, I know as I work on garden machinery.
Another great vid Geoff, i have been doing a bit of research on ev battery replacement on a kia e nero and a 2L petrol engine in my kia sportage. A battery for a kia e niro £ 5, 637.60 +vat @20% , 2L petrol engine kia sportage £1,500 inc vat. Battery average life 10 to 15 years before is knackered, ice 20 plus years if looked after properly.
My daughter in law just got a polestar as she said it was nearly free to run apart from the £700 a month rental , I had a wee shot of it & it was good ( 1st time driving an electric car ) I drive a old jaguar xjr which does about 15 - 20 mpg which works out about half the price to run as I've got no car payments . I think my car is also ulez compliant ( I don't know why ! ) I'll stick to my petrol engines as long as I can .
My mate had an XJS. The tank didn't last long at 130mph. Bur like a Miata/MX5 - he had a smile on his face - Autobahn of course. Can't we scrub the air for particulates... it isn't just the diesel particulates here ... I wouldn't mind electric cars if they were much lighter with smaller footprint than ICEs
@@GeoffBuysCars I've always had cheap cars , my last car was 2k & had electric reclining rear seats , TVs , dvd electric blinds ...... I see people all the time that struggle to get by due to massive car payments it's crazy
There's no way the original Nissan Leaf could do 124 miles at the beginning. I drove the same model with the 24 kWh eight years ago and I'd estimate with normal driving it was good for 130 kilometers or 95 miles normal driving.
I live in Scotland, one of my neighbors bought a nice Tesla last spring and Boasted about it all summer.... ...It got traded in for a Diesel BMW in November because she couldn't manage her commute milage with the HEATING ON!!!! No charger at work and 126 mile round trip. She LOST over 50% of the price she bought it for in the trade in, she only had the car for 7 months and less than 4k miles. She let slip that it was also costing more £££ than her old petrol car to run to work and back. Still has the tesla charger at home and it still costs her in increased council tax for the privilege (Tesla don't want anything to do with removing it). I have an old Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 auto (K reg 1992) and I can drive all the way to Hastings to visit my daughter on less than one tank of petrol (Around 750 miles). I think I'll wait a decade or so before I get an electric car, hopefully things will be sorted out a bit better and the battery technology will have improved, A LOT.
You cannot drive your EV far away from your home town because there are not enough public chargers, you cannot buy a second hand EV car because the battery is almost fully depleted after 8 years, if you use it you cannot use the air conditioning or the heating system... Where did we see this before... 🤔 Aaah, of course, the Soviet Union! Welcome to the UESSR, the USSRA and the UKSSR!
The batteries life in them are only about 5 Years, imagine the cost of replacements! Look at your mobile phone - One small li-Ion about £20 - several huge batteries boxes all connected together to all be replaced together- because of uneven loads and current hogging you can’t just replace faulty cells- we are talking about several thousands ££££££££! I am a retired electronics tech who has researched Li-Ion batteries etc. ???????
I have no intention of buying an EV anytime soon. Perhaps in the future, if the price of mid-range cars becomes more affordable I might consider them, but that's a massive if, and it is contingent on the infrastructure being in place, along with other factors such as improved battery longevity. For the foreseeable future, my XC60 T5 will continue to be my pride and joy.
We are going to have the same problems disposing of these unwanted cars and toxic batteries as we are disposing of the gigantic deteriorating wind turbines and pitted solar panels.
There's a real point to what you're saying about the used EV market, in that they will be the only cars many of us will be able to afford. And if they lose half their range in a decade, then they're pretty much useless to anyone but the odd person who just goes to the shops and back. And why would you buy a BMW iX (or whatever that fugly thing is), just to buy your weekly shopping? I have two Saab's, both around 20 years old. Their range hasn't changed much since they rolled out of Sweden. And with a bit of tinkering, would most likely last another 20.
In my discussions about EVs, I've been saying this exact same thing. Batteries are better now, but a battery will not outlast a well maintained gas powered car. If properly maintained, a gas powered car will be cheaper to own in the long run than an electric car.
I know you said It but you can't compare a brand new IX to a leaf to try and extrapolate what the IX will be like in 12 yrs. the leaf is the single worst example for battery degradation in any EV, look at a 10 yr old Tesla, or Zoe and its a lot less bad. id like to see a part 3 where you look at more than just 1 example (and the worst example at that), try a Tesla S or Zoe and compare them with like for like cars
Just sitting here watching the EV lemmings scamper off the edge of a cliff. (EV cars are like old laptops, cool and modern the day you got them but completely outdated crap 5 years later.)
Here in the United States, car buyers with bad credit are being told the only cars they're "qualified" to buy are EVs. It's a total scam to pawn them off to the lowest rungs of society. Pure evil.
Early Leafs had a inferior battery chemistry and no thermal cooling.8 bars left mean a few of the modules in the battery have become faulty.2 options are replace the faulty modules with new ones or replace the whole battery with a 40 kWh battery out of a MK2 Leaf.The latter would improve the range up to 150 miles.There are many You Tube videos showing this.The rest of the car would last another 12 years with TLC by which time you're average ICE is getting expensive with a worn out engine.
@johnmcconville6055 No clutches, auto still going strong, original exhaust and injectors, 2 timing belts and water pumps (150k interval with this engine). I expect there's at least another 200,000 in it. I've been offered 10k for it but there is nothing I could replace it with in my budget that would do the same job so reliably.
@@Stambo59 Good to hear.I had a 2003 2.0 D4D Corolla and wondered what happened to it.Last year it started to fail MOTs as the body work was corroded.That could have been prevented with treatment,but the engine seemed fine.Over 200 k miles.
82000 miles for moist ICE cars would be nothing. Dyno'd, they'd probably have little or no reduction in performance over new. Having run two ICE cars to a quarter million miles, I'm yet to be convinced by BEV's with under-developed battery technology.
Mad world isn't it, bought an 8 year old polo for £4k in 2019, sold it in 2022 with 20k more miles on it for £6k and then bought a cheap banger for £900 out of the profit on it. And have spent a few hundred keeping that running 😂
Absolutely, we're all being financially incentivised (bribed or bullied ) to buy new boilers & heat pumps and scrap our perfectly fine central heating systems. Net zero is just an advert for electric and solar industries
I totally agree with your comments but 2 points you have not mentioned tyres on electric cars due ro their extra weight dont last as long and cost more and worse still the envioronmental damage caused to countries and children who for a pittance have to crawl through very small tunnels to dig out by hand cobalt used in the batteries. Keep up with your good work.
Had an EV for years and tyre wear is exactly the same.Brake wear is considerably less.If is Cobalt you are referring to then EVs are getting rid of cobalt use,whereas cobalt is used to refine petrol.
Spot on!! Batteries as they stand are NOT the answer! and that's a FACT. These vehicles are just play things and as for being green! they couldn't be futher from the truth if you take into account all of the facts and figures regarding their manufacturing and where their power is coming from for the majority of them.
Really interesting. I have seen several sources say an EV only gets to a lower CO2 footprint after 70,000 miles based on the average European electricity grid. I wonder if that took in to account real life battery life depreciation?
I have heard various people claim that, but given that most EVs will have to have new batteries fitted by that mileage, it means that they will never get to the point of being better than Petrol/diesel equivalents. Also, given all of the other issues with EVs, they just aren't worth bothering with in my opinion. I'm sticking with my 25 year old, £200 Rover for as long as possible. I'm saving money, and the environment!
52,000 miles. If powered with low carbon energy its 29,000 miles. Most EV owners are on a low carbon energy tariff due to cheap off peak rates. ua-cam.com/video/lOyzLSBCBWo/v-deo.html
Where did you get the price for the Nissan Leaf from? Ours cost £18k, with a 4.5k government grant. . Were you looking at the price for the newer model?
Have said it before, EV’s only work out cheaper for company car drivers who replace every 3 years or so. Yes, I have a Hyundai Ioniq 5 as a company lease car. The BIK tax works out at £80/year and 50% vat reclaimed plus the rest of the cost written against corporation tax. 220miles per charge is plenty for my daily commute and can always top up if needed. This doesn’t make me some kind of weirdo or save the planet fool, but slightly better off and saving tax. Couldn’t give a crap about the global warming bull and not bothered about depreciation and resale values. The wife’s car needs replacing and that will be a petrol!
The thing with EV's is that technology will keep moving rapidly. Meaning that any EV bought now will depreciate like a stone. Buy an iPad today and in 4 years it's worthless. The same will happen for the next iPad and so on. Whereas ICE's have been pretty much the same for a century. Yes they have become cleaner and more efficient, but they just keep going. A well maintained engine will last for decades. A battery will ALWAYS deteriorate and need to be replaced. And what do we do with all the dead batteries? I would hazard a guess that in 10 years we will have another ecological disaster with a glut of dead batteries killing the planet. WHY are we so short sighted!
Hey mate, I am a big fan of my EV...but sometimes I like watching videos of people with other opinions. I agree with you that a lot of the current EV's are ridiculously expensive and with battery degradation they will likely be worth not much at all in ? years. Nevertheless EV technology (battery, charging, etc) is evolving. We are at the start of the bell curve when it comes to EV's. I loved my Hyundai I40 but I"m realistic that it will go the way of Dodo (like most ICE) the moment EV's reach parity in purchase price and running costs. How society will deal with the huge amount of energy needed to run EV's and how they resolve the battery recycling issue is another question that may slow transition, but I don't think it will stop the demise of ICE. 🏁
I think I agree with you, there is always going to be a place for the EV: round town especially. The point that everyone seems to be making is that the tech is not evolving fast enough to be all sweetness and light by 2030. The way battery tech is going it won't be 2050 that EVs sales eclipse ICE either - sales are plateauing now. Watch how, when we reach 2028, the govt realises that nothing has fundamentally changed since 2023 and announces "another 5 years". The net zero lies will be exposed by then, when the sea levels are not seen to be rising and we are all still here. Then what?
I hate that the govt is giving Buyers of expensive new EV's 5000K, all cars should succeed or fail on their own merits. Its a stupid idea start to finish.
And the price for changing the battery in any EV will be far more than the vehicle is worth... let alone the additional scrappage charge for battery disposal should you be the unlucky sap to own one at the end of it's battery life. As for getting us all out of cars, yep am sure thats the plan of those in charge... I suspect an endless dribble of road pricing (with annual hikes) and city ULEZ charges... the exception of course will be for the lorded elite who run around in their (DVLA historical registered) Jags and such.
Nissan Leaf had a serious design issue with the battery causing it to over heat, better designed batteries with proper cooling don't lose anywhere near the range that Leaf has. That said, we won't see decent EVs on the second hand market at reasonable prices for a few years yet. Tesla model S are probably the closest and they seem to be holding value much better than your example. Range is the biggest problem with any EV though the idea of waiting an hour for your car to charge at a charging station is ridiculous and that is if you can find a free charging point. I was reading an article last year about people waiting up to 12 hours to charge at motorway services on a busy bank holiday which is just insane.
Rory Reid is running a 64 plate leaf on his channel and getting around 60 ish miles from it. Crap as all that stuff you mentioned is a £2500 Leaf wouldn’t be terrible for pottering around town or on a short urban commute . Especially in ULEZ area like London.
Love your videos Geoff, but this one is seriously flawed! The Leaf didn't manage it's claimed range when new, and was not nearly as popular as the Focus, it should have been compared with a gold plated Lada😂 But you make a valid point, the government have wasted a golden opportunity to electrify transport, it was going so well until motorists discovered no one in Westminster had thought about the infrastructure required. It took companies like My Energy to work with them and point out (providing chargers existed) if everyone plugged in at once, the lights would go out. So new charger firmware will stagger charging. It will be interesting to see the reaction of someone that had queued at a fast charger, get to the front and be greeted with a message stating "sorry, this is a period of peak demand, you will have to wait!" Road rage will be replaced by Charging rage. I ordered a new EV over a year ago and still haven't got it. At least the garage have honoured the original price, unlike many. My use pattern makes it viable as it will be charged at home using an off peak tariff and solar power. I'm retired and don't do many miles, but it is outrageous EV's are being promoted as a viable option for high mileage business travelers! Well done Geoff, keep it up!
Some used bargins out there at the moment Mark. Only buy new if you want a 50% hit on depreciation. Many excellent used EVs with great range. Avoid anything with chademo or you'll cry in a few years time if you want DC charging on the motorway.
@@HairyCheese Thank you Simon. My requirements are quite specific, I ordered a medium wheelbase Vivaro E Life. They reduced the price to just qualify for the £1500 government grant at the time. It came in at just over £30k. The grant ended the month I ordered it, not bad for a 9 seat vehicle. Disappointing only the 50kwh battery is available in anything with side windows, only the panel van is available in the UK with the larger 75kwh battery. This is not the case with Opel in the EU and Southern Ireland! Used Vivaro E Life's are like hens teeth in the UK! Especially the shorter wheelbase variant that will fit a standard 5 metre parking space!
People really don’t like change do they. Quite sweet to see the utter drivel they come up with to persuade themselves they don’t need to change. Nice work Geoff! Don’t let any facts get in the way of a good story eh 😂
@@GoldenCroc batteries simply wear out over time, even the best electric car batteries today, I don't see them having a majority of their range in 10 years time after many many charge and discharge cycles, and technically the electrical output of a battery decreases with age too due to wear so I guess that also means your electric car would lose a fair amount of performance over time too.
@@squeakers27 I know quite a bit about battery wear in cars and other electrically powered stuff, thats why answered the way I did. EV cars have been around in the mainstream for longer than 10 years now, and yes, Indeed most of them do have the majority of their range left after 10 years. So that is already settled, more or less. Count on about 20% degradation and you will likely be in the rough ballpark. Performance is less dependent on the capacity and will degrade even less, a few percent is likely, so within the margin of error.
Yes those old battery chemistries where pretty rubbish wheren’t they lol. By the way I think you forgot the £10k to £12k of petrol costs for 62k miles (compared to £3k - £4k for a refurbed, and better, battery). Oh, and the road tax, servicing, fumes etc.
I get what you are saying but for the Leaf electricity would have cost £750 for 60K miles and for the Ford (1,200 gals @ 7/gal = ) £8,400 At todays prices. Car tax savings over 12 years £1,740 and servicing £600. So add all the savings of £9,390 then not so bad. Now if you live/work in London (or other large cities) you could be stung with another £2K/year ULEZ or £24K. Now electric is the winner!
Great video! Just wondered if anyone knew whether the battery takes the same amount of time to charge as it gets older ? So in other words, if the range goes down but it still takes the same amount of charging time for less range then that makes it less cost more per mile as it gets older ? My head hurts …
The leaf's air-cooled battery was bad, that's why they added active battery cooling to it in the newer models, just like all other EV makers do. That Leaf should just be scrapped. You cannot apply those numbers to EVs with active cooling. But yes, depreciation of EVs is a risk factor. Prices for used EVs generally are still ok, but that's also because there are not that many being offered yet. In the Netherlands they offer subsidies for used EVs to prevent the market from collapsing.
Most cars are not bought for transport but for status. "Look at me in my expensive electric car, I'm better than you" Sad self centered people will pay all they have to do this.
A few months ago, I've been watching Polish automotive show, and as presenter said, at this point, expensive electric cars are expensive gadgets, same as tv, projectors, and other stuff we like to buy, people will be buying them, because they are cool! And they can afford them! Looks futuristic, im gadgets person myself, and if i could afford one i would buy one, same as i bought my oversized, unnecessary expensive tv!. But if they put all of that futuristic look, large screens, electric cool looking seats into let say 300hp Cupra Ateca with 2.0 tfsi engine, i would chose Cupra all the time! This way, it will be something more than just gadget...
I agree with you completely. Look after your old car, drive as little as you can, and don't buy something that has 200,000 km of carbon emissions preloaded into the manufactoring and which has a battery pack that cannot be recycled and which pack will definitely cause groundwater poisoning at the end of its life.
We need to regard these EVs in the same way we do a mobile phone not a normal ICE car. Phone tech becomes outdated quickly and state of the art becomes state of the ark very quickly plus the usability and fit for purpose falls away as the battery deteriorates to the point that only recycling them makes sense.
I really wonder what the market will be for second/third hand EV's with battery capacities that have fallen through the floor - nobody is going to want them. If you buy an old petrol banger, yes, you know you'll have issues, but they'll be fairly straightforward to fix. Imagine buying a used EV with 50% life battery remaining for £5k, and being told it will cost £10-15k to have a new battery. I also recently learned that EV's in shunts or prangs are being written off by insurers because they can't accurately assess the state of the battery as they're completely sealed units. If you can't verify if the battery is safe - you write it off!
Sat with a pal at the match, yesterday. Two of his colleagues bought Porsche Taycans, six months ago, at £120,000 each. Both have just been offered £80,000, by Porsche, for their cars, against a new Porsche. The dealer said they had twelve new ones, in stock, which they can’t shift. At that rate of depreciation they’ll be worthless in just a few years. Economics of the madhouse.
Interesting. I bought a 2004 Ram 350 with a 6.2l turbo-diesel and 800k miles on it for $4000 about ten years ago. I spent about $2k replacing the interior and doing some repairs on it. It now has a bit over 1.2M miles on it, and i was offered $14k for it. I'm keeping it though, It's got another 500k miles in it easily. I recently sold a 1978 Ford Bronco I bought for $750 in 1992. I put about $12k in it to update the engine interior, suspension and paint. Sold it for $35k. I have a Camry and a Japanese minitruck that I converted to CNG. I own to natural gas wells, so those get filled up for free. I'm just not seeing a compelling reason to get an EV.
As soon as there’s enough of them the Government will tax the shit out of them
but by then a BEV will be cheaper than any ICE car.
Yep, just as they’ve done with diesel.
You can’t win.
There's already plans in government to add road tax to electric vehicles.
They are going to tax them in the next few years, and I bet they will charge you by the mile or something like that, they will just link it to the gps computer, they have to get their money back somehow as not many people will be buying petrol or diesel.
You are not keeping up.......sunaks government have employed over 6oo new civil servants whose sole purpose is to create a NEW ved FOR ALL ELECTRIC VEHICLES IN 2025 AS PER THE RECENT BUDGET.
That Leaf is like buying a diesel with 5 litre fuel tank that you have to fill up with a teaspoon.
You can run a Leaf on the cheap with some electronic skill rebuilding its battery pack
using cells from another scrap leaf.
@@TeaBreak. YOUR CLEARLY A NEW WORLD ORDER SHILL
@@FullFact548 providing you don't need to use the car, it would only power my house for 1 day, modern build with green electric heating, very expensive and power hungry
@@TeaBreak. I didn't know you can control a Nissan leaf with a dumbphone, that fact puts me off them even more lol
@@FullFact548 OK then, green and money hungry, my less green flat I used to live in was larger and much cheaper to keep warm with its gas central heating, this place costs a fortune to keep warm in winter with its electric heating
It doesn't matter how bad EV infrastructure is, or how bad the vehicles are, the aim is to stop us travelling, end of, regardless what we use, confined in our own districts we will easily be opressed should our zone be rebellious
Correct Norton. I laugh at people saying "we'll" all be driving electric cars. Naw, you won't be driving anything other than a bicycle. That's the plan as you say
@Lookup2Wakeup driving, private jets, massive houses and fancy holidays. Eating steaks while the masses freeze, chomp on insects and have their children brainwashed in school indoctrination centres.
@Lookup2Wakeup I will be travelling in a narrow boat.
Exactly. It's all about control.
Like the video pointing out the very real world draw backs. Trying to go 500 miles with low powered EV Battery would be difficult.
Also the infrastructure is not getting better as more cars waiting for hours in service stations. The old Ford fiesta off you go 500 miles no problem. Love my volvo xc70 12 yrs old 102k very comfortable 40 mph motorway. Wifes Tesla model 3. Great round a city.
Not very comfortable.
Could not imagen using it to go to Scotland.
Delusion, over hyped EV plan. They have a place but an EV bus in a city is better use off the battery pack as its use helps more people than 1 drivet. Democratically compelling.
You could solve the problem of reduced range by cutting holes in the floor, so that passengers could lower their feet and run, to assist the battery. Like the Ant Hill Mob in Wacky Races.
You cant cut it, batteries are underneath people feet
just like Fred Flintstone
@@davidcampbell7209yabadabado 🤣
Probably not a long way from the truth!
@@FullFact548 I suppose the reduced range might not be a problem for some people - e.g. somebody who only uses the car for work 15 miles away, and can charge at work or at home, it wouldn't matter a damn if the range dropped to 20 miles.
I did 368k miles in my Audi V6 TDi... at the end of that I sold it for a pretty sum. I calculated I spent 6 whole days filling it up with fuel and that in total the car worth around 250k to the tax office when you consider the purchase cost, parts, servicing, road tax, fuel, mot's, tyres, company car tax bla, bla. I would like to see any EV beat those numbers and still be operating at half that mileage. Thumbs up to you Geoff, you are on the right track with your Volvo and your EV analysis.
EV LIKELY GONE THROUGH 4 BATTERY PACKS AND 4 MOTORS EASY , ELECTRIC MOTORS ARNT DESIGNED TO TAKE A BEATING LIKE ICE ENGINES
How much on servicing in those miles.Oil changes,belts,filters,injectors..Every 10-15k miles.Also brakes and discs as we all know EVs are much easier on brakes due to regen braking.
If you want to see any EV compete. Considering Tesla tracks all Their cars, they may publish the data your not looking for. 😁
@@TeaBreak. NOPE IVE NEVER BOUGHT A DRIVE TRAIN IN MY LIFE AND IVE OWNED OVER 15 CARS , ALSO EVS HAVE DRIVETRAINS ALSO WHICH LIKELY BURN OUT SUPER FAST DO TO EVS ARE FAST OFF THE MARK PUTTING STRAIN ON ALL THE PARTS
@@lancethrust9488 Are you 6 years old? Stating ev drivetrains likely burn out is complete nonsense. As an ex-Audi Quattro driver, here is a little fact. The user manual warns about using launch control due to excessive wear on the drivetrain. Printed in black and white. An ev can launch all day long because there are no parts to wear. A fully charged battery launch is insanely rapid. Your missing out on sh1tload of fun.
We who have common sense have seen used car values doing exactly what we expected. Rising to the sensible levels as seen all over mainland Europe. Keeping what I've got for as long as possible. 2000 V70, 50000 miles, 2003 Golf 1.6 19000 miles, 2005 Golf TDi 169000 miles. Keep going Geoff. The audience is attentive.
Golf 1.6 197000 miles!
Diesel corolla 140,000, Diesel corolla 120,000, VW TDi 250,000, BMW 2.0 diesel 130,000 and keeping it.
@@FullFact548 As a cyclist I know air quality is an issue in urban places. Hybrids are complex and costly but if prices come down people will ditch their diesels - new diesel sales figures have gone down a lot. A scrappage scheme would accelerate the change.
325ci 284000 miles, 330i touring 96000 miles, 850 t5 349000 miles and going nowhere, as well as several 2 stroke motorcycles and spare engines and gearboxes for all of them stored away in the garage just in case. They'll have to kill me to part me from them.
@@robertsmuggles6871should've ignored the lies and bought petrols instead of buying into the DERV hype.
Great video. Of course, the truth is they don't want us in EVs either
Bingo!
Well they can only stop what we allow. So lets put an end to this shit once and for all.
@@MDM1992 yes enough is enough. I am sick and tired of this shit
You are so right Geoff, "just look after your old car" its cheeper to insure too !
They didn't really do much better than 55 miles when new. A chap I know bought one for his wife, living in a rural area they soon found out it was useless and got rid of it a month or 2 later.
Cornwall Council had a couple of new Leafs donated to them by when they first came out by the local dealer. After having a couple of recoveries the staff were told not to use them for journeys of more than fifty miles. Of course this meant all but short trips had to be planned, and these plans couldn't be changed once you were out.
I suppose their main purpose was to convey a message as they sat outside the council offices on their chargers.
If its got 8 "bars" left, the car reckons its lost about 50% of capacity. It doesnt use a linear "battery bar" scale. But you are right about the range being not much to write home about even when new.
@@cornishhh it's a similar story with the police ev. They're not permitted to pursue a suspect/car in one. They're just a publicity stunt.
@@FullFact548 150 to 315 miles isn't anything to be proud of. My 16 year old 4x4 will do more than 650 miles per tank and I can use the heaters and heated seats as much as I like in the winter with minimal impact on fuel economy. In fact internal combustion engines run better and more efficient in cooler temperatures.
@@FullFact548 in answer to all your points its far more eco friendly to run and maintain old vehicles (2 of my 3 4x4s run on veg oil by the way) and at -10 degrees Celsius an internal combustion engine runs better and more efficiantly than at +20 degrees.. could you answer these...... where are the metals for your batteries mined and by who? How much pollution is produced from manufacturer of an electric vehicle and eill that ever be offset by zero emissions? How and where can these electric cars/ batteries be disposed of at the end of their life? Will you see or even care about any of those things from the confinds of your 15 minute digital utopia?
Well said Geoff. Over here in Oz, I retired 9 years ago and paid $14,000 for a 2 year old Ford Falcon (100,000km) with a 2.4 litre Ecoboost engine (the strangely unpopular 4 cylinder kit. Aussies have till recently been fascinated with their 6-cylinder 4-litre beasts.)
Well, fuel economy is great. On long trips, I actually get almost 900km out of my 65-litre tank, Australia mostly being flat as a pancake.
So my old beast, which I love, has hit 270,000 km now and is surely good for another 200,000 by the time I'm too old to drive. By my calcs, seeing I'm going to keep driving it as long as I'm alive, I'm going to be the most climate friendly driver in town.
Also, I'm a retired accountant, and you are spot on; the resale value of EV's as they hit the 5 to 7 year mark will drop off a cliff once there are enough of them around, because no second hand car buyer is going to want to face stumping up a sure $10,000 plus battery replacement bill. And that is going to scare the living daylights out of new car EV buyers once finance companies start factoring that into lease and HP deals.
Agree, the greenest option is to keep old cars running. EVs are a rich mans toy.
It works in Cuba,however our communists are overexcited morons
If I'm going to have an automotive rich man's toy, I'll buy an old Ferrari!
Tesla model Y will be the most sold carmodel on planet Earth in year 2023.
A EV will cost less than a ICE car after year 2025 😎
@@mikafiltenborg7572 Still wouldn't drive an electric if you gave it to me!
@@dcarbs2979 That's a stupid thing to say. I've just bought an MG4 and it is the most fun car to drive that I've had in forty years of driving. It corners like it's on rails and accelerates like a rocket. It makes me feel like I'm nineteen years old again.
Try one! There's nothing like it!
You also get to the position where the battery is old and fails. You are then left with paying a lot of money to a private company to properly dispose of that battery which is a legal requirement on the owner.
Hard to believe that will be an issue in the forseeable future to be honest, the parts of the car are well worth paying for as scrap by various merchants. I would love to be given an EV battery or whole car for free, trust me. Can get lots of use out of the parts and resell them. Battery is most likely to break in modules, and then you can still use the good ones for solar energy storage etc.
@@GoldenCroc It's already happening. In China there are companies who take the battery and get paid but just dump the battery instead.
@@vanmore5124 I doubt it, with how cheap labour is in china. A complete EV battery is almost certainly worth saving if it isnt damaged by water/fire etc.. Has to be a regulatory scam, in that they can get away with dumping it, but not recycling it... thats my take at least.
If there arent enough others, Then I will open shop to collect them for free. Maybe we can go into business together, I will give you 10% commission of profits for every car you refer to me.
@@GoldenCroc If that is the case, why isn't anybody recycling old batteries?
Instead they're just digging big holes and dumping them in there as a problem to be dealt with in the future.
@@ryanwilliams6526 There are companies that properly recycle them, but there are pirate companies in China who get paid then hardly do any recycling. It's common because they charge less.
Great video Geoff, I'll be sticking to diesel! My volvo xc60 has plenty of life left in it and at 60,000 is only just run on!
Hi Geoff, I enjoy watching your UA-cam channel. I ordered a Tesla Model 3 in May of 2022. Because of our WONDERFUL President, gas went from $2.00 per gallon to $5-$7 a gallon. I stopped driving my beloved Banana yellow 1971 Chevy El Camino up and down a thirty-mile stretch of old route 66 in California and am now driving the 2022 Tesla Model 3. It does the one hundred-mile daily drive for just under $5. It is plugged in at night and ready for two hundred miles the following day. We spent about $150 per month to keep the car charged, whereas we were spending over $1000.00 a month before the Tesla (Thank you, Joe). With the price of gas doubling every couple of months and Tesla only having the Fremont, California plant producing, Tesla raised prices to reduce the incoming orders. When Austin, Berlin, and Shanghai started producing, there was no longer a need to suppress orders. Tesla rolled back most of the price increases that were put in place to reduce demand. You can now buy a new Tesla for less than what used EVs were selling for, and yes, my Model 3 is not worth what I paid for it. I am saving more on gas than the payment, so it is still a free car. I have home charging, so charging our car is easy and inexpensive. Tesla supercharge network is so simple to use that the hardest part is backing into the charging stall. Keep the videos coming!
So what your saying is a tesla is cheap to run vs a 50 year old car doing 14mpg for someone who drives ~2000miles a month.
Practically any new vehicle would have saved you money there.
What do you drive while the Tesla is on charge? Your old Chevy?
So if you bought a new ice car same class would get 35-45 mpg. Comes out to about $150-$200 tops per 2000 miles. Where is the benefit?
@@efallser123 I don't live in the UK but in the Mojave Desert of California. I drive as much as 200 miles a day. It is a 40-mile round trip to the grocery store and 60 miles to the office. In the US, even the smallest cars do not get 45MPG, and anything that can fit five adults won't get 20MPG. I went from $1000 US for gas to a $150.00 electric bill by getting the Tesla. The Tesla is stupid, fast, and comfortable. I went to lunch at 110 F (44 C). When I was done eating, I used my phone to turn the AC on in the car. When I got in, the car was a cool 75 F (24 C). I will drive what I want, and I will support your choices as well.
@@maxm8986 yes that is your choice. I am not the current gov to mandate what you drive. Not sure why you getting super defensive. It’s yours choice and if the logic works for you more power to you.
When comparing that focus to the Leaf, don’t forget the owner enjoyed over a decade of use without range anxiety as well 😂
We have already enough stress in our lives and don’t need waiting at charging stations if we can find one and then drive around watching the mileage….
The more I watch you, the better I feel about buying a new diesel vehicle.
I sold my 2010 ML300, 82,000 miles and full service record for £6700. I don’t think depreciation was too bad.
I already owned 17 cars and on EVERY one of them I made a nice profit when selling. I havent lost a single penny ever. I usually buy them when they are around 200.000km for about 2k€, i clean them, I dailydrive them, I treat them well and when I feel like something new, I sell them with around 300€ profit. In my entire car-life I havent lost a penny on a car.
The neighbour bought an ID3 last year, 6 months later it was back and replaced by a diesel!
😂 another little pipe dream, when wokeness meets reality!!!!
You are so right about EV s !! Just a waste of money and inconvenient to own .. it's just a big catastrophe 🚙😬..I m sticking with my old Laguna 3 diesel ⛽ ,from 2007 ..drives extremely well and good gas mileage.. EV s are not the future,but in my mind I believe that alternative eco friendly fuels are // like synthetic petrol/RME diesel/ and E85 ..
Honestly I think not owning a car at all is the future they have planned for us.
@@chevchelios8582 I don’t disagree, but it won’t be like an overnight on/off switch though will it? Surely the only way they can force us out of our cars (especially amongst those of us who outright own them) would be to make our car tax totally unaffordable, either VED or tax on fuel. And rest assured that certainly wouldn’t end well for any government!😂 no one will ever be prising my car off me!!!
Yes, it's really inconvenient waking up each morning to discover my EV is fully charged. Not to mention paying .02 /mile for "fuel." And boy do I miss changing the oil, flushing the radiator and the transmission. Then there is the inconvenience of receiving free charging at National Parks, downtown visitors centers, hotels, restaurants, etc. I sure hate that free "fuel." Yes, owning an EV is soooooo inconvenient. ROFLMAO.
Good one Geoff, I ve been waiting for these 2nd hand figures. No shock there then! Manufacturers have got even more work to do 😂
In what way? If you are talking about degradation, the Leaf is, and always was, an exception for the worse. about 1-1,5% for 10000 miles is reasonable for most other EVs.
@@GoldenCroc exactly how Geoff put it!
@@fill7t1 I am sorry, I dont get what you mean. Maybe I am a bit slow, can you clarify a bit more? How did he put it, can you give an example? Because from this video and perhaps your post it seems he somewhat erroneously extrapolate the value and capacity of a very early Nissan Leaf to other EVs, when that is very far from the truth.
Nah, manufacturers don't need to do more work on EVs, they need to abandon them and move on to something like hydrogen power. The national grid won't be able to support many more EVs charging all night, cables snaking across pavements tripping up pedestrians, running out of charge when the weather turns cold, etc, etc. In fact, let's just keep petrol and diesel and ditch the Net Zero bollocks instead.
@@andybutler2291 I agree with everything you just said...except the hydrogen bit....unless of course you were extracting the urea! Lol but yeah all good on the other bits
Geoff that might be true. But its only just about scrap value. The focus may be able to do another 8 to 12 years.
I cannot imagine in the future the EVs will ever become a classic car, it’s not like you can change the battery like your radio battery….
The only classic electric vehicles that are actually desirable are milk floats
@@bentullett6068 The milk floats are more reliable.
@@bentullett6068 my brother was a milkman ... he T boned a parked car, panicked and started to drive away ... I ran after him with 8 empty bottles in my hand ... dude we need to leave a soz on his windscreen. I suspect the milk float is still running ... no lithium in the making of that thing. We will be beholdent on "friendly" nations for our childrens transportation. Go with hydrogen.
Beside the fact that they’re about as interesting as dish water
There is quite a market in retro fitting Classic cars into EVs.Usually the ICE lump in the front is knackered.Weight is very similar but performance is massively improved.Range about 150 depending on battery set up.I think it's a great way of keeping classics on the road
My nine year old vauxhall Astra, has just clocked the 100000 mile mark, Today I drove from Kent to Salisbury and back, round trip, a little shy of 200 miles, all on slightly over a quarter tank of diesel, about three gallons. The same as when it was new.😊
Exactly and it will do the same journey with ease on a cold winter day when an ev battery will be down to 50% range even fully charged.
That`s the way to do it. Also I bet in 2or 3yrs you Astra will be worth the same money as it is now.
@@paulf2529 Not the case in mine but not all EVs are the same.
I can drive my MG 5 200 miles on one charge.Overnight rate £0.12 per kWh x62= £7.44.Thats about 1 gallon of dinosaur juice or 200 mpg equivalent.PS Just did it the other day and the temp was 3c.Normal range 260 miles.
@@johnmcconville6055 How wonderful for you.
If you think that's bad, just wait until the next generation of batteries come online. The current cars will drop as hard as a 2.5ton paperweight.
Battery technology evolves very slowly. Solid-state batteries have been in development for years. Sodium ion batteries are also in development, but these won't fully replace lithium ion.
@@Richard482 tick tick tick...
@@Richard482 Seems like car manufacturers have given up trying to squeeze more out of Li/Ion batteries now, and because customers are so concerned about range, they're just putting in bigger and bigger batteries - 100kWh or more are becoming common. When the next gen battery tech does finally drop, every single EV on the road today will be a paperweight that nobody wants. The only reason tech like Sodium/Ion batteries exist is because they're meant to be cheaper - not better, or longer range, just cheaper.
Next gen batteries ? I've been hearing that ever since the EV's started to be pushed as the future, and thats been quite a few years now. Its no different from the gag pulled by Pacific Islanders building control towers and mock aeroplanes out of Bamboo and Atap, in the hope that the Yanks will return and shower them with modern goods.
Storage of electricity, much like prophecy, has always been notoriously difficult. For which read Expensive. And its likely to stay that way for at least the lifetimes of anybody here. And in the history of human progress, its always been the case that the more convenient, drives out the less convenient that went before. I cant think of any instance of the less useful prevailing over the more useful, but hey, good luck with your 'Electric Future'. :)
@@Fanakapan222 On the contrary, a test car containing sodium ion batteries has been released in China. ua-cam.com/video/4TRHajgPhwM/v-deo.html
You nailed it Geoff 👍👍👍
I'm so glad I bought a 1997 Puegeot 106 D with only 19k miles 5 years ago for £1100 and it has never let me down and she still looks brand new..
A very recent Dutch test with the most commonly sold EV's showed that NONE of them had the range they were advertised with.
The worst one had 13% less range then advertised, brand new!
The one and only car that did have the range advertised, and even a bit more, was a special edition extra range Tesla...
And last but not least: don't get fooled by manufacturers claiming very short fast charging times: the faster you charge the battery, the faster is will deteriorate.
My 1998 Land Rover 90 Defender is now worth 50% more than I paid for it 16 years ago! It never lets me down and I love it.
The leaf in 2012 had a range of about 80 miles. The 125 miles range is nedc range which was in no way representative of real world range. New UK figures use WLPT range which are less generous but are still about 20% short of actual usable range. This Leaf has lost battery from 80 to 55miles so it has about 69% of its battery remaining. Applying this to the BMW would give it a totally different range figure... Although as nearly every other ev out there is actively liquid cooled or heated I think battery health will be massively different depending on brand/model with some evs holding 90% charge after 10 years.
Very true, also the Leaf used batteries designed for Laptops. Battery chemistry has improved massivley over the last 12 years and now we are starting to see new batteries that have been designed specifically for EV's which increase the range of the car by 20% just from the shape of them and reduce the cost of making the packs by making the cells much larger so there is less than 20% of the cells to package and weld.
As we push for faster charging and the inherent damage that does to the cells I suspect we will not see any real world change.
I think certainly that could result is wildly different capacities left in used vehicles depending on how impatient (or busy) the original owners were.
Your informed reply is lost in a see of the "I hate ev" bubble. They are just looking for the arguments supporting their preconceived opninion, not the weighing of pros and cons...
“You would have to be a very specific type of user to justify 27,000 pounds worth of depreciation” When you said that Geoff I literally spat my tea out whilst listening!
I drive a 2010 Honda Civic, my wife drives a 2001 Honda Civic. They were both our daily drivers until we retired, I spent $3K to fix up the road rash, both cars look like near new. We drive them less than 10K km total per year, they should last us until 2035 when Justin Trudope says they're illegal or we die of old age first. From all the videos of EVs catching fire I'd be terrified charging one in my garage while I sleep at night.
Another great video. You are correct to buy a car and keep it. I bought a 2004 Honda Civic to fix up and give to a relative. My relative found another car so now it’s my daily driver. I had to do work to it brakes and rotors, timing belt, water pump, and radiator. At 32 mpg. Older fuel efficient vehicles are the way to go.
Love my Honda's, wouldn't buy anything else. I had 1998 Civic I bought for £250 and ran it till mot up, 50mpg on 35 miles mainly motorway commute because it was 1.5 Vtec-e would get 53/54mpg on longer run, then took engine out and put in my HRV and best I had is 48mpg in this 2 long trips with lean burn function. So reliable too
The Govt. legislates that we can only buy EVs, but leaves us on our own when it comes to the ruinous use of them. Ironically the Leaf is right at the top of the price range of the cars I buy, but will not last anywhere near the time I expect any car I buy. ( I always get a top of the range, well looked after model and take care of as much as possible myself ).
Geoff. I would love to see you & "Electric Vehicle Man" having a discussion, that would be interesting. You would be able to sell tickets😀
Every reason not to own an EV, sticking with petrol
Really interesting video. I, like many, am waiting to see how the EV world pans out. I drive a petrol hybrid and will probably get another in Jan 2024 when the lease expires. I'm just not convinced on the EV future, yet. Thanks, Geoff.
Hybrids are a good idea. You can waft around town on leccy and charge her back up on petrol on the open road. You're not putting all your eggs in the electric basket.
Our BMW 528i Touring was around £58,000 new. It now has 147,000 miles on it. WBAC valued it at £300 a while ago. As you rightly say, its range has not been affected. It requires a 12 volt battery every 4-5 years though.😂😂. Mainly because BMW thought it a good idea to put the battery in the rear instead of that nice warm engine bay. 🤔 I bet the servicing and depreciation is still better than an EV. 🙂🙂
And the Focus`s fuel tank is the same size it was when new!
Good point.
Just an ordinary working class ex mechanic... I stuck with diesel... 1.6 citroen, cost £100..... 7 yrs ago.... Cheap to run, costs nothing on parts and has 217k on clock.. EV, LOVE THE TECH... HATE THE PRICE.
There's a lot to be said for keeping your old car. I bought a 6 year old Skoda manual diesel and I'm still driving it 17 years later. Always serviced properly, it does around 50 to the gallon as it always has and can pull a ton on the rare occasions when that's needed. It will probably keep running until the politicians kill it off in some way.
The public has quickly twigged to the fact that these things are a liability that are difficult to live with and a threat to our sanity. And because of that, they aren't worth a friggin' light.
EV are a threat to your sanity? 😂 You sound weak AF
Mate... couldnt agree more... daily driving a Mercedes W124 C320 with 179k miles on the clock. Long road trip tomorrow to the south coast... no range anxiety here ... and people will smile, wave and give me thumbs up...
Unfortunately the poorest people will end up with the Nissan Leaf…Let us hope Grandma lives close by.
Just strap a horse to the front of it and you will get a bit more range. Only downside is that it will now emit emissions.
@@bentullett6068I'd push it myself but then I might go over my personal exhalation allowance for the month and have to pay.
Within 15 mins
Peugeot Ions and their Citroen relatives are surprisingly expensive.
@Lookup2Wakeup I love those EV fans who actually suggest this idea in chats. I always question them by asking why didn't you buy a hybrid in the first place. Although you always get the a Hybrid worse for the environment reply, hate to tell them but a small four stroke engine running unleaded standard unleaded emits more than a engine in a hybrid as there aren't any catalytic converters on small four stroke exhaust systems, I know as I work on garden machinery.
Another great vid Geoff, i have been doing a bit of research on ev battery replacement on a kia e nero and a 2L petrol engine in my kia sportage. A battery for a kia e niro £ 5, 637.60 +vat @20% , 2L petrol engine kia sportage £1,500 inc vat. Battery average life 10 to 15 years before is knackered, ice 20 plus years if looked after properly.
My daughter in law just got a polestar as she said it was nearly free to run apart from the £700 a month rental , I had a wee shot of it & it was good ( 1st time driving an electric car )
I drive a old jaguar xjr which does about 15 - 20 mpg which works out about half the price to run as I've got no car payments .
I think my car is also ulez compliant ( I don't know why ! )
I'll stick to my petrol engines as long as I can .
£700 a month is a car a month for me!!
My mate had an XJS. The tank didn't last long at 130mph. Bur like a Miata/MX5 - he had a smile on his face - Autobahn of course. Can't we scrub the air for particulates... it isn't just the diesel particulates here ... I wouldn't mind electric cars if they were much lighter with smaller footprint than ICEs
@@GeoffBuysCars I've always had cheap cars , my last car was 2k & had electric reclining rear seats , TVs , dvd electric blinds ......
I see people all the time that struggle to get by due to massive car payments it's crazy
EV Owner: "It's so much cheaper to run, and I'm only paying twice as much per month than my previous car"
There's no way the original Nissan Leaf could do 124 miles at the beginning. I drove the same model with the 24 kWh eight years ago and I'd estimate with normal driving it was good for 130 kilometers or 95 miles normal driving.
Anyone who has bought a brand new EV (not sure why you would) will be so happy they made their purchase.
Ev won’t work. Hybrid the best way so you always can get fuel and no range anxiety. Loved both the videos today. I was glued to the content today.
If you're going hybrid there's no point to the battery. Save your mpg
Tesla model Y will be the most sold carmodel on planet Earth in year 2023
I live in Scotland, one of my neighbors bought a nice Tesla last spring and Boasted about it all summer....
...It got traded in for a Diesel BMW in November because she couldn't manage her commute milage with the HEATING ON!!!!
No charger at work and 126 mile round trip.
She LOST over 50% of the price she bought it for in the trade in, she only had the car for 7 months and less than 4k miles.
She let slip that it was also costing more £££ than her old petrol car to run to work and back.
Still has the tesla charger at home and it still costs her in increased council tax for the privilege (Tesla don't want anything to do with removing it).
I have an old Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 auto (K reg 1992) and I can drive all the way to Hastings to visit my daughter on less than one tank of petrol (Around 750 miles).
I think I'll wait a decade or so before I get an electric car, hopefully things will be sorted out a bit better and the battery technology will have improved, A LOT.
Nissan Leafs of that age realistically did 80-90 miles when new on a charge. The 124 mile range was an official range fantasy.
You cannot drive your EV far away from your home town because there are not enough public chargers, you cannot buy a second hand EV car because the battery is almost fully depleted after 8 years, if you use it you cannot use the air conditioning or the heating system... Where did we see this before... 🤔 Aaah, of course, the Soviet Union! Welcome to the UESSR, the USSRA and the UKSSR!
The batteries life in them are only about 5 Years, imagine the cost of replacements! Look at your mobile phone - One small li-Ion about £20 - several huge batteries boxes all connected together to all be replaced together- because of uneven loads and current hogging you can’t just replace faulty cells- we are talking about several thousands ££££££££! I am a retired electronics tech who has researched Li-Ion batteries etc. ???????
Living in the north of Sweden, bought a used Leaf 2 years ago, is now worth the same as then. Battery has lost 10% in 9 years, great car.
I have no intention of buying an EV anytime soon. Perhaps in the future, if the price of mid-range cars becomes more affordable I might consider them, but that's a massive if, and it is contingent on the infrastructure being in place, along with other factors such as improved battery longevity. For the foreseeable future, my XC60 T5 will continue to be my pride and joy.
Tesla model Y will be the most sold carmodel on planet Earth in year 2023
They are now affordable
Buy a 1 year old Nissan leaf
Cheaper than a 1 year old focus
We are going to have the same problems disposing of these unwanted cars and toxic batteries as we are disposing of the gigantic deteriorating wind turbines and pitted solar panels.
There's a real point to what you're saying about the used EV market, in that they will be the only cars many of us will be able to afford. And if they lose half their range in a decade, then they're pretty much useless to anyone but the odd person who just goes to the shops and back. And why would you buy a BMW iX (or whatever that fugly thing is), just to buy your weekly shopping?
I have two Saab's, both around 20 years old. Their range hasn't changed much since they rolled out of Sweden. And with a bit of tinkering, would most likely last another 20.
Best comparison video ever.
Brilliant. That volvo will go forever also.
In my discussions about EVs, I've been saying this exact same thing. Batteries are better now, but a battery will not outlast a well maintained gas powered car. If properly maintained, a gas powered car will be cheaper to own in the long run than an electric car.
Petrol car will also be ULEZ compliant.
So there is a real possibility that it could increase in value or just remain the same.
I know you said It but you can't compare a brand new IX to a leaf to try and extrapolate what the IX will be like in 12 yrs. the leaf is the single worst example for battery degradation in any EV, look at a 10 yr old Tesla, or Zoe and its a lot less bad.
id like to see a part 3 where you look at more than just 1 example (and the worst example at that), try a Tesla S or Zoe and compare them with like for like cars
Just sitting here watching the EV lemmings scamper off the edge of a cliff.
(EV cars are like old laptops, cool and modern the day you got them but completely outdated crap 5 years later.)
Here in the United States, car buyers with bad credit are being told the only cars they're "qualified" to buy are EVs. It's a total scam to pawn them off to the lowest rungs of society. Pure evil.
Early Leafs had a inferior battery chemistry and no thermal cooling.8 bars left mean a few of the modules in the battery have become faulty.2 options are replace the faulty modules with new ones or replace the whole battery with a 40 kWh battery out of a MK2 Leaf.The latter would improve the range up to 150 miles.There are many You Tube videos showing this.The rest of the car would last another 12 years with TLC by which time you're average ICE is getting expensive with a worn out engine.
My 1996 Toyota at 300,000 still doesn't use oil between services, let's see an EV last 26 years.
@@Stambo59 So how many timing belts or chains,water pumps, clutches, exhaust, injectors has it got through.I had Toyota's and just curious.
@johnmcconville6055 No clutches, auto still going strong, original exhaust and injectors, 2 timing belts and water pumps (150k interval with this engine). I expect there's at least another 200,000 in it.
I've been offered 10k for it but there is nothing I could replace it with in my budget that would do the same job so reliably.
@@Stambo59 Good to hear.I had a 2003 2.0 D4D Corolla and wondered what happened to it.Last year it started to fail MOTs as the body work was corroded.That could have been prevented with treatment,but the engine seemed fine.Over 200 k miles.
Not interested in anything powered by electricity
Car wise at least
@@paulie-Gualtieri. certainly car wise!
I should have made that clear
@Lookup2Wakeup and candles in the house
@Lookup2Wakeup you need a good sense of humour nowadays!
82000 miles for moist ICE cars would be nothing. Dyno'd, they'd probably have little or no reduction in performance over new. Having run two ICE cars to a quarter million miles, I'm yet to be convinced by BEV's with under-developed battery technology.
Since I bought my Volvo 2010 XC 70 AWD in 2021 it is now worth £500 more than I payed for it.👍🤡🌍
Mad world isn't it, bought an 8 year old polo for £4k in 2019, sold it in 2022 with 20k more miles on it for £6k and then bought a cheap banger for £900 out of the profit on it. And have spent a few hundred keeping that running 😂
EV`s are just the same as "white goods"... There will always be a newer and better version and yours is worth peanuts once it leaves the showroom...
They will be the next disposable consumer items. Just smartphones on wheels.
Absolutely, we're all being financially incentivised (bribed or bullied ) to buy new boilers & heat pumps and scrap our perfectly fine central heating systems.
Net zero is just an advert for electric and solar industries
I totally agree with your comments but 2 points you have not mentioned tyres on electric cars due ro their extra weight dont last as long and cost more and worse still the envioronmental damage caused to countries and children who for a pittance have to crawl through very small tunnels to dig out by hand cobalt used in the batteries. Keep up with your good work.
The pollution from tyres is as bad or worse than that from an internal combustion engine and is responsible for micro plastic pollution in the oceans.
Had an EV for years and tyre wear is exactly the same.Brake wear is considerably less.If is Cobalt you are referring to then EVs are getting rid of cobalt use,whereas cobalt is used to refine petrol.
That's why I'm keeping my 2008 Focus II until the doors fall off...👍
Are they still on ?? Lol
@@boyasaka Yup! Just the rear suspension the problem at the mo...still I'd spend 1K to fix it than go through finance, etc. for a new car...
Spot on!! Batteries as they stand are NOT the answer! and that's a FACT. These vehicles are just play things and as for being green! they couldn't be futher from the truth if you take into account all of the facts and figures regarding their manufacturing and where their power is coming from for the majority of them.
Keep up the good w😊rk Geoff.
I would buy an EV, but I am neither rich enough nor stupid enough to even contemplate such an absurdity.
Really interesting. I have seen several sources say an EV only gets to a lower CO2 footprint after 70,000 miles based on the average European electricity grid. I wonder if that took in to account real life battery life depreciation?
I have heard various people claim that, but given that most EVs will have to have new batteries fitted by that mileage, it means that they will never get to the point of being better than Petrol/diesel equivalents.
Also, given all of the other issues with EVs, they just aren't worth bothering with in my opinion.
I'm sticking with my 25 year old, £200 Rover for as long as possible. I'm saving money, and the environment!
@@ryanwilliams6526 The whole thing is insane, I can’t believe it is happening, surely reality will kick in at some point
52,000 miles. If powered with low carbon energy its 29,000 miles. Most EV owners are on a low carbon energy tariff due to cheap off peak rates. ua-cam.com/video/lOyzLSBCBWo/v-deo.html
Where did you get the price for the Nissan Leaf from? Ours cost £18k, with a 4.5k government grant. . Were you looking at the price for the newer model?
What you are forgetting this is a “ I hate EV’s “ channel and 90% of the people who comment are petrol heads that have never ever been in an EV.
I come here for the popcorn and get shouted down when I provide facts LOL
@@HairyCheese Are you on the correct thread?
Have said it before, EV’s only work out cheaper for company car drivers who replace every 3 years or so. Yes, I have a Hyundai Ioniq 5 as a company lease car.
The BIK tax works out at £80/year and 50% vat reclaimed plus the rest of the cost written against corporation tax. 220miles per charge is plenty for my daily commute and can always top up if needed.
This doesn’t make me some kind of weirdo or save the planet fool, but slightly better off and saving tax.
Couldn’t give a crap about the global warming bull and not bothered about depreciation and resale values.
The wife’s car needs replacing and that will be a petrol!
Was going to buy one but they are taking the proverbial with the prices. Indeed as you say I will keep my 2017 Tucson oil burner.
The thing with EV's is that technology will keep moving rapidly. Meaning that any EV bought now will depreciate like a stone. Buy an iPad today and in 4 years it's worthless. The same will happen for the next iPad and so on.
Whereas ICE's have been pretty much the same for a century. Yes they have become cleaner and more efficient, but they just keep going. A well maintained engine will last for decades. A battery will ALWAYS deteriorate and need to be replaced. And what do we do with all the dead batteries? I would hazard a guess that in 10 years we will have another ecological disaster with a glut of dead batteries killing the planet. WHY are we so short sighted!
Hey mate, I am a big fan of my EV...but sometimes I like watching videos of people with other opinions. I agree with you that a lot of the current EV's are ridiculously expensive and with battery degradation they will likely be worth not much at all in ? years. Nevertheless EV technology (battery, charging, etc) is evolving. We are at the start of the bell curve when it comes to EV's.
I loved my Hyundai I40 but I"m realistic that it will go the way of Dodo (like most ICE) the moment EV's reach parity in purchase price and running costs. How society will deal with the huge amount of energy needed to run EV's and how they resolve the battery recycling issue is another question that may slow transition, but I don't think it will stop the demise of ICE.
🏁
I think I agree with you, there is always going to be a place for the EV: round town especially. The point that everyone seems to be making is that the tech is not evolving fast enough to be all sweetness and light by 2030. The way battery tech is going it won't be 2050 that EVs sales eclipse ICE either - sales are plateauing now. Watch how, when we reach 2028, the govt realises that nothing has fundamentally changed since 2023 and announces "another 5 years". The net zero lies will be exposed by then, when the sea levels are not seen to be rising and we are all still here. Then what?
At Least with an E bike you can still peddle it back when battery gone. An 2-ton car that be difficult.
I hate that the govt is giving Buyers of expensive new EV's 5000K, all cars should succeed or fail on their own merits. Its a stupid idea start to finish.
And the price for changing the battery in any EV will be far more than the vehicle is worth... let alone the additional scrappage charge for battery disposal should you be the unlucky sap to own one at the end of it's battery life.
As for getting us all out of cars, yep am sure thats the plan of those in charge... I suspect an endless dribble of road pricing (with annual hikes) and city ULEZ charges... the exception of course will be for the lorded elite who run around in their (DVLA historical registered) Jags and such.
Nissan Leaf had a serious design issue with the battery causing it to over heat, better designed batteries with proper cooling don't lose anywhere near the range that Leaf has. That said, we won't see decent EVs on the second hand market at reasonable prices for a few years yet. Tesla model S are probably the closest and they seem to be holding value much better than your example. Range is the biggest problem with any EV though the idea of waiting an hour for your car to charge at a charging station is ridiculous and that is if you can find a free charging point. I was reading an article last year about people waiting up to 12 hours to charge at motorway services on a busy bank holiday which is just insane.
Rory Reid is running a 64 plate leaf on his channel and getting around 60 ish miles from it. Crap as all that stuff you mentioned is a £2500 Leaf wouldn’t be terrible for pottering around town or on a short urban commute . Especially in ULEZ area like London.
A comparison of operational costs would be useful as well (maintenance, fueling, etc)
Love your videos Geoff, but this one is seriously flawed! The Leaf didn't manage it's claimed range when new, and was not nearly as popular as the Focus, it should have been compared with a gold plated Lada😂 But you make a valid point, the government have wasted a golden opportunity to electrify transport, it was going so well until motorists discovered no one in Westminster had thought about the infrastructure required. It took companies like My Energy to work with them and point out (providing chargers existed) if everyone plugged in at once, the lights would go out. So new charger firmware will stagger charging. It will be interesting to see the reaction of someone that had queued at a fast charger, get to the front and be greeted with a message stating "sorry, this is a period of peak demand, you will have to wait!" Road rage will be replaced by Charging rage. I ordered a new EV over a year ago and still haven't got it. At least the garage have honoured the original price, unlike many. My use pattern makes it viable as it will be charged at home using an off peak tariff and solar power. I'm retired and don't do many miles, but it is outrageous EV's are being promoted as a viable option for high mileage business travelers! Well done Geoff, keep it up!
Some used bargins out there at the moment Mark. Only buy new if you want a 50% hit on depreciation.
Many excellent used EVs with great range. Avoid anything with chademo or you'll cry in a few years time if you want DC charging on the motorway.
@@HairyCheese Thank you Simon. My requirements are quite specific, I ordered a medium wheelbase Vivaro E Life. They reduced the price to just qualify for the £1500 government grant at the time. It came in at just over £30k. The grant ended the month I ordered it, not bad for a 9 seat vehicle. Disappointing only the 50kwh battery is available in anything with side windows, only the panel van is available in the UK with the larger 75kwh battery. This is not the case with Opel in the EU and Southern Ireland! Used Vivaro E Life's are like hens teeth in the UK! Especially the shorter wheelbase variant that will fit a standard 5 metre parking space!
People really don’t like change do they. Quite sweet to see the utter drivel they come up with to persuade themselves they don’t need to change. Nice work Geoff! Don’t let any facts get in the way of a good story eh 😂
😂😂😂 You're very good the government should hear this before they're pushing us into this!
30 years ago the battery life of a mobile phone was about 5 years. 30 years later and the battery life on a mobile phone is about 5 years.
Not really relevant to cars, though.
@@GoldenCroc batteries simply wear out over time, even the best electric car batteries today, I don't see them having a majority of their range in 10 years time after many many charge and discharge cycles, and technically the electrical output of a battery decreases with age too due to wear so I guess that also means your electric car would lose a fair amount of performance over time too.
@@squeakers27 I know quite a bit about battery wear in cars and other electrically powered stuff, thats why answered the way I did.
EV cars have been around in the mainstream for longer than 10 years now, and yes, Indeed most of them do have the majority of their range left after 10 years. So that is already settled, more or less. Count on about 20% degradation and you will likely be in the rough ballpark.
Performance is less dependent on the capacity and will degrade even less, a few percent is likely, so within the margin of error.
@@GoldenCroc It's battery technology, they all deteriorate over time.
@@aib0160 Indeed, as do everything, I was referring specifically to the 5 year figure in your comment.
Yes those old battery chemistries where pretty rubbish wheren’t they lol. By the way I think you forgot the £10k to £12k of petrol costs for 62k miles (compared to £3k - £4k for a refurbed, and better, battery). Oh, and the road tax, servicing, fumes etc.
I get what you are saying but for the Leaf electricity would have cost £750 for 60K miles and for the Ford (1,200 gals @ 7/gal = ) £8,400 At todays prices. Car tax savings over 12 years £1,740 and servicing £600. So add all the savings of £9,390 then not so bad. Now if you live/work in London (or other large cities) you could be stung with another £2K/year ULEZ or £24K. Now electric is the winner!
Great video! Just wondered if anyone knew whether the battery takes the same amount of time to charge as it gets older ? So in other words, if the range goes down but it still takes the same amount of charging time for less range then that makes it less cost more per mile as it gets older ? My head hurts …
The leaf's air-cooled battery was bad, that's why they added active battery cooling to it in the newer models, just like all other EV makers do. That Leaf should just be scrapped. You cannot apply those numbers to EVs with active cooling. But yes, depreciation of EVs is a risk factor. Prices for used EVs generally are still ok, but that's also because there are not that many being offered yet. In the Netherlands they offer subsidies for used EVs to prevent the market from collapsing.
Most cars are not bought for transport but for status. "Look at me in my expensive electric car, I'm better than you"
Sad self centered people will pay all they have to do this.
A few months ago, I've been watching Polish automotive show, and as presenter said, at this point, expensive electric cars are expensive gadgets, same as tv, projectors, and other stuff we like to buy, people will be buying them, because they are cool! And they can afford them! Looks futuristic, im gadgets person myself, and if i could afford one i would buy one, same as i bought my oversized, unnecessary expensive tv!.
But if they put all of that futuristic look, large screens, electric cool looking seats into let say 300hp Cupra Ateca with 2.0 tfsi engine, i would chose Cupra all the time!
This way, it will be something more than just gadget...
I agree with you completely. Look after your old car, drive as little as you can, and don't buy something that has 200,000 km of carbon emissions preloaded into the manufactoring and which has a battery pack that cannot be recycled and which pack will definitely cause groundwater poisoning at the end of its life.
Carbon footprint was invented by British petroleum
We need to regard these EVs in the same way we do a mobile phone not a normal ICE car. Phone tech becomes outdated quickly and state of the art becomes state of the ark very quickly plus the usability and fit for purpose falls away as the battery deteriorates to the point that only recycling them makes sense.
I really wonder what the market will be for second/third hand EV's with battery capacities that have fallen through the floor - nobody is going to want them. If you buy an old petrol banger, yes, you know you'll have issues, but they'll be fairly straightforward to fix. Imagine buying a used EV with 50% life battery remaining for £5k, and being told it will cost £10-15k to have a new battery.
I also recently learned that EV's in shunts or prangs are being written off by insurers because they can't accurately assess the state of the battery as they're completely sealed units. If you can't verify if the battery is safe - you write it off!
Sat with a pal at the match, yesterday. Two of his colleagues bought Porsche Taycans, six months ago, at £120,000 each. Both have just been offered £80,000, by Porsche, for their cars, against a new Porsche. The dealer said they had twelve new ones, in stock, which they can’t shift. At that rate of depreciation they’ll be worthless in just a few years. Economics of the madhouse.
The main point of owning a EV is to eventually stop you from travelling any long distance and to fully control people.
Interesting. I bought a 2004 Ram 350 with a 6.2l turbo-diesel and 800k miles on it for $4000 about ten years ago. I spent about $2k replacing the interior and doing some repairs on it. It now has a bit over 1.2M miles on it, and i was offered $14k for it. I'm keeping it though, It's got another 500k miles in it easily.
I recently sold a 1978 Ford Bronco I bought for $750 in 1992. I put about $12k in it to update the engine interior, suspension and paint. Sold it for $35k.
I have a Camry and a Japanese minitruck that I converted to CNG. I own to natural gas wells, so those get filled up for free.
I'm just not seeing a compelling reason to get an EV.