Thank you for confirming what I've always suspected, that many aquaponic systems being shown have too much of a "technical approach" to them that seems to point to a need to always PURCHASE design specifications, additives and redundant filtering systems and other "industrial dependant" components while it absolutely should not be necessary so long as we closely imitate what occurs in nature.
Considering that it's nearly a full decade later & people are suggesting putting worms in growbeds; I'd say you were more than just on to something....
I threw some Red Wigglers into my GB in the spring and they seemed to thrive and multiply. They were even left out in freezing weather for a couple of days when I was moving the bed and when I dug through the media there were plenty of worms and the only roots I found were still attached to the plants. I'd say they were doing their job well.
Maybe I'm missing something. Why not just add earthworms to the beds? Save electricity, save all the work of making and maintaining... I feel fairly certain earthworms make it to the beds anyway.
they don't work fast enough, plus you'll end up with too many worms and excrement. high worms occurred because there was too much organics added to the beds. Better to keep a balance in aggregate beds.
I'm familiar with the bulkhead fittings that "ebb" from the bottom up. I completely agree. Top down is ideal as it represents a biofitration trickle filter method that is best for aeration especially when water is allowed to flood the bed entirely, vs drip only. Our Trickle Valve is superior to siphon. Filters top down, floods and drains from bottom through same pipe but not through the line that fills the bed, so pump does not see water on the return flow. Thanks for your comment.
I also have a bin that is a composting bed that floods and drains into the system, I can grow anything in my system , ohh and I dont use any filtration other than the plants in the bed, and it can run even if I have no fish for a while, I also compost directly into the grow beds, the worms do all the work very quickly, I also suggest adding ground egg shell and coffee grinds, I also have a piece of metal in the system for iron. my system ph stays about 7-7.8 water is clear. I also have other methods that work quite well with ebb and flow using those cloth smart pots. I am glad someone else besides me has an open mind with aquaponics. so many are very narrow and not wanting to think outside the box
Hi Toni, I plan to start with an aquaponic system and want to add worms to my growbed. Just read on an aquaponic forum that adding compost into a growbed will cause the build up of ammonia. Have you found this to be an issue? How much compost do you add and what kind? I juice and figured that the pulp should be fine to add.
Marlies Zoll hello, not compost itself is added but things you would compost like left over vegetables and fruits. How much is really dependant on the amount of worms in your system, as far as ammonia build up that should never happen if the nitrate cycle is working and you have enough plants to use up the nitrates. But like anything with aquaponics introduce things slowly, everything should be done with a balance in mind for the health of your fish. I am working on an all worm system that no fish are in at all but uses a lot of the same principals
In my composting bed I failed to mention is the first to be flooded and then it drains into my grow beds and then back into the fish tank, I failed to point that out sorry. My biggest advice for anyone is to make a small system to try new things with, I love aquaponics and to me the sky is the limit. I also do what has been dubbed terraponics which uses a pot system where the plants self-water, and then I have a flood drain table where I use those cloth smart pots, and use a organic soil and grow stone mixture 50-60% growstone, I have found tomatoes grow very well with that system as it has the soil but self waters with the aquaponic water and because to the cloth pot the roots grow huge which gives the plants the ability to get more oxygen and water as needed
@siamsurf . Since this video, worms have become integral to our food production systems. They are essential. A bed filter as much as bacteria, leaving behind growth factors, mychrhizome organisms, enzymes, aerating, and essentially grooming plant roots. Whenever a plant is pulled out of the bed, invariably there's a fat worm within the rootball that touched every root on the plant. It's fascinating to imagine the amount of work they do and how much they belong!
I use red wigglers in the media in my fish tanks and my aquaponic fish reservoires (under water). They dont thrive but they get by and keep the media happy! One can also enoculate their beds and reservoir media with soil containing aquatic worms and bennies from natural water ways.They will fight compaction and help decompose roots and organic matter.
our beds are doing fine without separate sources of filtration. maybe cause we're experiencing a lot less fish poop, maybe cause of the bio grow media we're using along with worms - sufficiently liquifies solids. Most filtration takes place in bags that limit undecomposable solids from entering tank. mind you the program i'm referring to is with our biogarden and bio-incubator systems. a lot different from this early Farm in a Box table setup.
You have answered a question I always had about Aquaponics, and that is about the seeming lack of anything other than nitrates and nitrites. Thank you for sharing.
Yeah? Would love to hear about it. What's the difference? This was an system filmed almost 4 years ago. Our beds are configured for ebb and flow (used interchangeably with flood and drain). Trickle down filtration through grow beds with complete saturation and drain through Trickle Valves. You can learn more about it on our website.
I've been raising red wigglers in my aquaponic set up for awhile now... they are helping a lot, more than I thought they would, plus they serve as food for my perch too!
This is my favorite of ALL vids I have watched. You are doing a great job, and I intend to move off the grid this spring andbegin to implement some of these ideas. have always been a gardener, and am just learning bout aquaponics, which I will use, and know that earthworms are essential for a longterm farming operation. Keep up the Great work, and thanks!
@Aniter1000 Do you think the fish would like to eat the adventurous worms? That could also make for some very plump fish as a worm overflow technique...
Hey Badboy, Thanks for your post, this is fun outdoors but the future is indoors, under glass or polycarbonate as in greenhouse or house with interior garden. Maybe you can start with an inexpensive lean-to from your house that also heats your house as it captures heat in the winter.
Would it be possible to add a worm tower to this system? It could add even more nutrients and trace elements and the worms would do all the distribution.
Are your grow beds actually configured as "ebb & flow"... or as "flood & drain"?? There's a difference... and flood & drain is by far the more preferable...
I've got red wigglers in my aquaponics bed. When it was a new setup, I fed them dog food. Now, there is enough plant matter for them to eat. Every now and then, one falls through down into the fish tank, and my fish eat them.
Hi Annie It worked great. We use worms with all of our grow beds. We're also designing systems and expanded the process to include colonizing microbes in the grow beds. You can learn more about it at our dot org and dot net sites, bioponica.
I'm designing a perpetual "fountain" type of system where water will be continually fed and drained in the grow bed. Will worms work in this case and does soil need to be added with the worms or can the survive in a Hydroton environment?
i doubt they'll survive continuous water in the beds will likely drown the worms. they can withstand it for some minutes or hours but not continuous. roots would probably help beds better than soil. they provide feed for the microbes.
No need to put the castings or the worms directly in to the water. The worms will drowned and the castings will clog filters and pumps. Another method would be to make a tea from castings that your worms have been seprated from, place the castings in a cloth bag, and put that cloth bag directly in your hydroponic tank or make a tea and pour the tea in.
yes, that's a good way to make casting tea. Will also need some sugars and lots of aeration in the water to feed the microbes from the worm tea. We use worm in the media bed to nurture plant roots. They don't drown in the beds.
Awesome... I have started looking into aquaponics an wish I lived in a warmer climate and be able to install and maintain a system outside. Thanks for posting theses informative videos. Devin BBO
When the top tank fills, does it drown the worms? I have an aquaponics systems set up now. And a worm bin. If I combine the 2, it'd be awesome.. as long as it does drown the worms.???
Dave what is that container inside your grow bed, looks like a potted plant. If so what's the purpose of the potted plant within the grow bed and how is it filled/drained etc... I take it that it's filled with a media or is it dirt?
I'm a beginner and researching now, not trying to troll. what i want to know is how is the worms working out for ya? Logic would say that the rocks would not compact and the worms couldnt move the rocks. also, there would be minimal food for the worms in a flood/fill system as opposed to soil. can you reach in and pull out worms? it just doesnt SEEM like it SHOULD work.
Worms are terrific. We use a blend of rocks that give them good habitat. yes they can endure flooding. if it's too cold though you might lose them in winter, though eggs will survive.
@cubaniton74. We add a lot of things to increase the nutrient load in the beds. One thing is creating fertilizer by decomposing green manure into water and clarifying it thru system. biochar is also good in the beds and won't get too mucky. fish are definitely not necessary when creating organic nutrient loads, but enjoyble to have along for the ride.
My worms love it just happy as worms can be. I use hydroton also and use a nutrient film technique instead of ebb and flow. The greatest thing is I have a heck of a time keeping the the Az heat and they enjoy the cool water and thrive.
Why don't you consider adding a rock dust such as Azomite to help w/ your micronutrients. In either form (pellets, micronized) it should help both your plants and fish. I enjoyed seeing another use for worms. Great job in trying to help improve these great systems.
I set up an aquaponic systems 2 weeks ago. 3 days after the set up, I threw in 10 worms first to test see if they'll die with the water flooding. Instead of using the flood and drain method, I use 30/120 water changing approach (ie. 30minutes flooding the growbed 1/2 of its height, 2 hours stopping). If I smell something funny from the grow bed and fish bed, I am sure these guys won't survive. Contrary to what I thought, they survive. So I add 20 more, man they clean up the system for me. My system no longer smell funny inside the living room. My grow bed is a see-through plastic tray, last night I saw a worm swimming at the bottom of the grow bed sucking something on the small rocks surface. About four days after adding the worms, the fish tank water is clear. I can see all the way to the bottom. It's been 2 weeks, the whole system seems stable. No more dead fish after this. The plants are growing but slow, I guess we don't have enough sun in Toronto at this time, I need to add an LED grow light. Note : You must add an air pump to your fish tank. Air pump will bring more oxygen to the fish and grow bed where the worm reside. It also push out the bad air inside the fish tank making the system cleaner and more vibrant. I use mechanical timers to control both air pump and water pump so they don't get too hot and burn out as they are expensive. I am thinking of using flowform to increase the dynamic of water making fish, worm, plant, bacteria all grow healthy and fast.
Nice vid, I use a Eb and flow system but with a drip system for my compost Tea and Egg shell vinegar I place this in bottles with a clear tubing and a drip switch much like a IV as it goes through my system it comes to my bio waste filter were I grow my duck weed and it has to travel down in pea gravel sand then my green filter scrubbers two of these systems then I have a IV of H2O2 to clean the water before entering the fish tank plus it Oxides the water keep up the good work...
You could go even one step further just for kicks .Try Co2 injection or diffusion just right below the plants using a simple yeast,sugar ,water in a 2 liter pop bottle cocktail combo that you can find on several DIY sites ,Or even try the pressurized variety for accuracy.The results in combination with what your already doing would be worth it.
wow what an incredible amount of valuable information that you have in your brain! This is all very educational and I am very impressed with your garden. question okay I have spent the last week calling every store in my area asking if they sell the lightweight aerated aragonite slate stone none of them carry it. Do you have a recommendation of a company where I can purchase this without having to purchase 100 tons VIA Rail way?
@Uriel1816 water is definitely darker than typical aquarium water. water does not muddy at all, though if worms are used there is less need for filtering out all solids.
Hi Kalidabod, Thank you. We are living in hotter climates every year. What is happening in desert climates like Saudi Arabia to keep cool? I've been looking at earthbag/adobe designs as previously advanced by Iranian born architect Khalili. Earthen homes cooled by chimney effect, convection and sub floor cooling (geothermal) may be the future. Bringing food production indoors we'll be better prepared to survive inclement weather on all continents and maintain local year round food production.
@hutch8614. yes thanks for the feedback. i'm in favor of larger stone. also like stone that has more acid character. slate and limestone are difficult to bring to below pH 7.
Great Video!, good information. What do you think about a flooded compost blue barrel with earthworms? I'm thinking about using rabbit manure and aerating the water in the compost barrel. This will be for my flood and drain beds.
So many videos, are jerky, say nothing, except "check out my amazing bell siphon". I learned so much,from your explanations, i didn't even need the visual. Both werre great! yep subscribed, and learning every day!
@esidrdave don't forget to physically hand turn the rock bedding after each harvest. Removing leftover root matter , etc.,.This will assist in the bed not becoming compacted do to soil build up. Worm are beneficial, they will live in the top layer, not liking to be fully submurged, don't forget to feed the worms.
Dear sir, you obviously have valuable knowledge to share, but your video skills are not up to par with your vermiculture skills. A single camera pointed at the plants while you speak (and not aimed very well sometimes IMHO) does not add value to your info. I would suggest either a tripod (get yourself in video and then edit afterward) or a friend who has some skills with single camera shots to plan what it is you are trying to showcase visually in synchrony with your audio. A small amount of preparation before hitting the 'record' button, or perhaps some review and editing, will improve the delivery of your topic. Best wishes with your project and thank you for sharing.
Especially with all the wiggling and constant movement of the camera. On a laptop, with the screen close to your face, on fullscreen, it is just plain unwatchable. I had to scroll down to the comments just to make it stop and just listen to the the audio. Great content though! Thanks.
I'm currently building a pretty good sized aquaponic system and had planned to add earthworms for this very reason. Nice to see someone else using their brain.
can you grow or float trays of wheatgrass within the system so the wheatgrass grows faster or would the wheatgrass drown or get to soggy? Also can an ubove ground pool with about 15,000 gallons of water be used for aquaponics or does the water/pond need to be off the ground?
a tank that big would require a huge amount of grow beds. For example one 275 gallon tank with 150 fingerlings supports 3 4x8 grow tables so think about what how many fish and grow tables you would need to be successful with 15000 gallons
I prefer media beds. We place burlap on trays within the flood and drain beds. This gives us a nitrified water source plus allows roots to grow in beds.
I wish to thank Marc Abelha for showing my how much I didn't understand or appreciate about your video. Then I went to HIS website...trust me it is the Holy Grail of...ah..Marc Abelha! Seriously David. You are doing a fine job. I find your presentation easy to understand. I am considering getting into aquaponics and worms might be what I was looking for as I use them to eat down chicken waste and provide a fall snack for our hogs. We even sell a large amount of worms. The chickens like them too.
***** lol sorry buddy hand full of rusty nails doesn't work that is a old wives tail... Not the correct for of IRON for plants... Chelated iron is bonded to thinks like amnion acids that allows the plant to up take the iron..
For a new growbed installation, would you recommend that I wait for some build-up of organic matter before adding earthworms? Or would it be best to infuse a mix of warms and castings when setting up the table? Thanks for posting this video, it's very informative!
Yes I recommend adding some organic matter. In fact, adding roots to your grow beds prior to planting and populating with worms adds great benefit. The roots have rhizobacteria and mycorrhizomes that will colonize on your new roots. Also the roots and microbes provide feed to the worms.
David Epstein thank you very much for taking the time to provide this informative and helpful answer! By roots, do you mean any plants' softer, white roots, or would any root-stock be sufficient? The larger, woodier variety? I live in Thailand, so I have many choices available. Thanks again for your help!
is that type of aragonite common at gardening stores? I've been searching google an the aragonite i've been finding is reef sand for aquariums, is that what you used? also how did the vermiculture and aragonite mix? I've seen people do the same with hydroton but aragonite looks more like it replicates natural soil
@dangloc89 not at all. they survive under water in beds for 30 minutes at a time without any problem. they can withstand even longer if the beds don't drain for any reason. very important. if they did however die in beds and decompose they contribute more nitrogen to beds which will be absorbed once other more microscopic decomposers reduce. but worms are hugely important as one will notice by pulling out plants. there is always one or two worms in each plant root ball.
For sure this will work, worms are awesome in the system as long as they can breath. As this video is quite old my guess is you had great success! Happy Gardening Marty Ware from Australia
to be honest i think aquaponics can still make a lot of use of dead plant matter, where else are you going to get trace elements, such as zinc, and the best for of zinc are in dead plant matter, do to the fact that it is the safest place, too much or too little can harm your plant or stunt its growth, also looks like your plants need some epson salt, some of them are looking too yellow.
Worms will NOT completely eliminate the need for (pump) filtration. But plants will :) check out low tech planted aquariums umbrella plants and mangroves are fantastic filters!
Ebb & flow, an original hydroponics methodology, floods the media from the bottom upwards, and then often drains back through the pump itself. This method, when used in aquaponics, pushs the wastes into the bottom of the media, and then drags them back down (often through the pump) into the fish tank, not good for the pump, and definitely not good for the fish It only acheives a very minimal aeration of any water returning to the fish tank. Flood & drain, top watered and siphoned is preferable
Not yet. But stay tuned at our website. We have a patented pending on the Trickle Valve yet plan to show a design with video and schematic soon as it is a US patent only. First have to get get creative commons setup for images before posting live.
Worms in an aquaponic system certainly help with the breakdown of wastes, and release of micro-elements, but heavy feeders often still require and/or benefit from supplementation. Worms in an aquaponic system will NOT "eliminate the need for filtration", a fundamental aquaponics concept, and it would be disastorously wrong to suggest such
I'm actively seeking those who've done and/or are doing vermiponics. I want to start up a system ( tho it's now rather late in the year to start ) and am looking for info based on the experiences of those who've been there and done / doing that.
Compost worms will not harm your crops at all. As far as I can see this guys description of his "red wrigglers" as "earthworms" is both inaccurate and misleading. He is using red worms of the "compost" variety and not the big greyish "earth" worms you find when digging in deep soil. Eisenia foetida are considered to be the best worms for most composting criteria and would probably work well for you here. Hope this helps.
Thank you for confirming what I've always suspected, that many aquaponic systems being shown have too much of a "technical approach" to them that seems to point to a need to always PURCHASE design specifications, additives and redundant filtering systems and other "industrial dependant" components while it absolutely should not be necessary so long as we closely imitate what occurs in nature.
Your instincts are spot on. These products are useful in the experimental phase but ultimately are not sustainable.
Considering that it's nearly a full decade later & people are suggesting putting worms in growbeds; I'd say you were more than just on to something....
I threw some Red Wigglers into my GB in the spring and they seemed to thrive and multiply. They were even left out in freezing weather for a couple of days when I was moving the bed and when I dug through the media there were plenty of worms and the only roots I found were still attached to the plants. I'd say they were doing their job well.
Maybe I'm missing something. Why not just add earthworms to the beds? Save electricity, save all the work of making and maintaining... I feel fairly certain earthworms make it to the beds anyway.
they don't work fast enough, plus you'll end up with too many worms and excrement. high worms occurred because there was too much organics added to the beds. Better to keep a balance in aggregate beds.
I'm familiar with the bulkhead fittings that "ebb" from the bottom up. I completely agree. Top down is ideal as it represents a biofitration trickle filter method that is best for aeration especially when water is allowed to flood the bed entirely, vs drip only. Our Trickle Valve is superior to siphon. Filters top down, floods and drains from bottom through same pipe but not through the line that fills the bed, so pump does not see water on the return flow. Thanks for your comment.
I also have a bin that is a composting bed that floods and drains into the system, I can grow anything in my system
, ohh and I dont use any filtration other than the plants in the bed, and it can run even if I have no fish for a while, I also compost directly into the grow beds, the worms do all the work very quickly, I also suggest adding ground egg shell and coffee grinds, I also have a piece of metal in the system for iron. my system ph stays about 7-7.8 water is clear. I also have other methods that work quite well with ebb and flow using those cloth smart pots. I am glad someone else besides me has an open mind with aquaponics. so many are very narrow and not wanting to think outside the box
Hi Toni,
I plan to start with an aquaponic system and want to add worms to my growbed. Just read on an aquaponic forum that adding compost into a growbed will cause the build up of ammonia. Have you found this to be an issue? How much compost do you add and what kind? I juice and figured that the pulp should be fine to add.
Marlies Zoll hello, not compost itself is added but things you would compost like left over vegetables and fruits. How much is really dependant on the amount of worms in your system, as far as ammonia build up that should never happen if the nitrate cycle is working and you have enough plants to use up the nitrates. But like anything with aquaponics introduce things slowly, everything should be done with a balance in mind for the health of your fish. I am working on an all worm system that no fish are in at all but uses a lot of the same principals
In my composting bed I failed to mention is the first to be flooded and then it drains into my grow beds and then back into the fish tank, I failed to point that out sorry. My biggest advice for anyone is to make a small system to try new things with, I love aquaponics and to me the sky is the limit. I also do what has been dubbed terraponics which uses a pot system where the plants self-water, and then I have a flood drain table where I use those cloth smart pots, and use a organic soil and grow stone mixture 50-60% growstone, I have found tomatoes grow very well with that system as it has the soil but self waters with the aquaponic water and because to the cloth pot the roots grow huge which gives the plants the ability to get more oxygen and water as needed
SHout out from Melbourne Australia. Keep in in the loop with this awesome system
@siamsurf . Since this video, worms have become integral to our food production systems. They are essential. A bed filter as much as bacteria, leaving behind growth factors, mychrhizome organisms, enzymes, aerating, and essentially grooming plant roots. Whenever a plant is pulled out of the bed, invariably there's a fat worm within the rootball that touched every root on the plant. It's fascinating to imagine the amount of work they do and how much they belong!
I use red wigglers in the media in my fish tanks and my aquaponic fish reservoires (under water). They dont thrive but they get by and keep the media happy! One can also enoculate their beds and reservoir media with soil containing aquatic worms and bennies from natural water ways.They will fight compaction and help decompose roots and organic matter.
Do you include fish in your aquaponic system? If so how do they react to the chemicals created by the worms? Does it negatively impact them at all?
our beds are doing fine without separate sources of filtration. maybe cause we're experiencing a lot less fish poop, maybe cause of the bio grow media we're using along with worms - sufficiently liquifies solids. Most filtration takes place in bags that limit undecomposable solids from entering tank. mind you the program i'm referring to is with our biogarden and bio-incubator systems. a lot different from this early Farm in a Box table setup.
You have answered a question I always had about Aquaponics, and that is about the seeming lack of anything other than nitrates and nitrites. Thank you for sharing.
Yeah? Would love to hear about it. What's the difference? This was an system filmed almost 4 years ago. Our beds are configured for ebb and flow (used interchangeably with flood and drain). Trickle down filtration through grow beds with complete saturation and drain through Trickle Valves. You can learn more about it on our website.
I've been raising red wigglers in my aquaponic set up for awhile now... they are helping a lot, more than I thought they would, plus they serve as food for my perch too!
This is my favorite of ALL vids I have watched. You are doing a great job, and I intend to move off the grid this spring andbegin to implement some of these ideas. have always been a gardener, and am just learning bout aquaponics, which I will use, and know that earthworms are essential for a longterm farming operation. Keep up the Great work, and thanks!
You put the land with the worms into the rocks? or the worms only?
@Aniter1000 Do you think the fish would like to eat the adventurous worms? That could also make for some very plump fish as a worm overflow technique...
Hey Badboy, Thanks for your post, this is fun outdoors but the future is indoors, under glass or polycarbonate as in greenhouse or house with interior garden. Maybe you can start with an inexpensive lean-to from your house that also heats your house as it captures heat in the winter.
@tphroc they can tolerate flooding for 30min or longer. but seem to do okay in rocks that have lots of aeration for longer periods.
Would it be possible to add a worm tower to this system? It could add even more nutrients and trace elements and the worms would do all the distribution.
Are your grow beds actually configured as "ebb & flow"... or as "flood & drain"??
There's a difference... and flood & drain is by far the more preferable...
I've got red wigglers in my aquaponics bed. When it was a new setup, I fed them dog food. Now, there is enough plant matter for them to eat. Every now and then, one falls through down into the fish tank, and my fish eat them.
Could you please post a link to any updates, to let us know how your experiment came out?
Hi Annie
It worked great. We use worms with all of our grow beds. We're also designing systems and expanded the process to include colonizing microbes in the grow beds. You can learn more about it at our dot org and dot net sites, bioponica.
Do the worms ever harvest themselves to feed the fish via drain?
So you gave not any soil? Only worms and those feed on the dead plant parts? (sorry if its a dumb question)
So did adding the worms to this grow bed help the plants? What about the plant in the pot -- did its leave get greener? Thanks for the video and info!
How did this experiment go? What heavy feeding plants can you grow now?
I'm designing a perpetual "fountain" type of system where water will be continually fed and drained in the grow bed. Will worms work in this case and does soil need to be added with the worms or can the survive in a Hydroton environment?
i doubt they'll survive continuous water in the beds will likely drown the worms. they can withstand it for some minutes or hours but not continuous. roots would probably help beds better than soil. they provide feed for the microbes.
Nice...thanks.
No need to put the castings or the worms directly in to the water. The worms will drowned and the castings will clog filters and pumps. Another method would be to make a tea from castings that your worms have been seprated from, place the castings in a cloth bag, and put that cloth bag directly in your hydroponic tank or make a tea and pour the tea in.
yes, that's a good way to make casting tea. Will also need some sugars and lots of aeration in the water to feed the microbes from the worm tea. We use worm in the media bed to nurture plant roots. They don't drown in the beds.
my DWC has worms as well... earthworms can happily thrive underwater as long as it is well airated like an aquaponics system...
How many earthworms per cubic foot of hydroponic media?
What kinds? Will planaria found in fish tank aquariums work also?
Not using planaria. Earth worms are better. I put 5 per square foot. They'll reproduce also.
Awesome... I have started looking into aquaponics an wish I lived in a warmer climate and be able to install and maintain a system outside.
Thanks for posting theses informative videos.
Devin
BBO
When the top tank fills, does it drown the worms?
I have an aquaponics systems set up now.
And a worm bin.
If I combine the 2, it'd be awesome.. as long as it does drown the worms.???
Dave what is that container inside your grow bed, looks like a potted plant. If so what's the purpose of the potted plant within the grow bed and how is it filled/drained etc... I take it that it's filled with a media or is it dirt?
yep have a small system tring it seems to work pretty good...
How do you keep worm population under control?
I'm a beginner and researching now, not trying to troll. what i want to know is how is the worms working out for ya? Logic would say that the rocks would not compact and the worms couldnt move the rocks. also, there would be minimal food for the worms in a flood/fill system as opposed to soil. can you reach in and pull out worms? it just doesnt SEEM like it SHOULD work.
Worms are terrific. We use a blend of rocks that give them good habitat. yes they can endure flooding. if it's too cold though you might lose them in winter, though eggs will survive.
Interesting concept. I need to research more.
@cubaniton74. We add a lot of things to increase the nutrient load in the beds. One thing is creating fertilizer by decomposing green manure into water and clarifying it thru system. biochar is also good in the beds and won't get too mucky. fish are definitely not necessary when creating organic nutrient loads, but enjoyble to have along for the ride.
Don't fish eat worms too? So if one is to add worms to the bed then they are also making food for the fish? That's sounds like a cool concept.
My worms love it just happy as worms can be. I use hydroton also and use a nutrient film technique instead of ebb and flow. The greatest thing is I have a heck of a time keeping the the Az heat and they enjoy the cool water and thrive.
Wow! So much great information. Well done, sir.
so,what happened? did it improve the overall system by adding the worms?
Why don't you consider adding a rock dust such as Azomite to help w/ your micronutrients. In either form (pellets, micronized) it should help both your plants and fish. I enjoyed seeing another use for worms. Great job in trying to help improve these great systems.
@Asefs2 they love it. tend to find root balls and spend their time there grooming to make it healthy, adding fungi and growth factors.
I do this and it changes everything for the positive
,, I also have composting worms in me grow beds and they keep the bed healthy
Are long did the worms live, did they drown?
Could you link, or post a schematic of your "trickle valve"?
I set up an aquaponic systems 2 weeks ago. 3 days after the set up, I threw in 10 worms first to test see if they'll die with the water flooding. Instead of using the flood and drain method, I use 30/120 water changing approach (ie. 30minutes flooding the growbed 1/2 of its height, 2 hours stopping). If I smell something funny from the grow bed and fish bed, I am sure these guys won't survive. Contrary to what I thought, they survive. So I add 20 more, man they clean up the system for me. My system no longer smell funny inside the living room. My grow bed is a see-through plastic tray, last night I saw a worm swimming at the bottom of the grow bed sucking something on the small rocks surface. About four days after adding the worms, the fish tank water is clear. I can see all the way to the bottom. It's been 2 weeks, the whole system seems stable. No more dead fish after this. The plants are growing but slow, I guess we don't have enough sun in Toronto at this time, I need to add an LED grow light. Note : You must add an air pump to your fish tank. Air pump will bring more oxygen to the fish and grow bed where the worm reside. It also push out the bad air inside the fish tank making the system cleaner and more vibrant. I use mechanical timers to control both air pump and water pump so they don't get too hot and burn out as they are expensive. I am thinking of using flowform to increase the dynamic of water making fish, worm, plant, bacteria all grow healthy and fast.
Understandable.. I'm intrigued... I've seen just about every possible implementation of "drain" solutions... in both aquaponics and hydroponics...
Nice vid, I use a Eb and flow system but with a drip system for my compost Tea and Egg shell vinegar I place this in bottles with a clear tubing and a drip switch much like a IV as it goes through my system it comes to my bio waste filter were I grow my duck weed and it has to travel down in pea gravel sand then my green filter scrubbers two of these systems then I have a IV of H2O2 to clean the water before entering the fish tank plus it Oxides the water keep up the good work...
You could go even one step further just for kicks .Try Co2 injection or diffusion just right below the plants using a simple yeast,sugar ,water in a 2 liter pop bottle cocktail combo that you can find on several DIY sites ,Or even try the pressurized variety for accuracy.The results in combination with what your already doing would be worth it.
wow what an incredible amount of valuable information that you have in your brain! This is all very educational and I am very impressed with your garden. question okay I have spent the last week calling every store in my area asking if they sell the lightweight aerated aragonite slate stone none of them carry it. Do you have a recommendation of a company where I can purchase this without having to purchase 100 tons VIA Rail way?
It's actually slate. Home Depot. :) www.homedepot.com/p/Viagrow-50-l-ViaStone-Hydroponic-Gardening-Medium-Grow-Rock-VS50-GROW-ROCKS/202985175?cm_mmc=Shopping%7cTHD%7cG%7c0%7cG-BASE-PLA-D28O-OutdoorGarden%7c&gclid=Cj0KEQjw1K2_BRC0s6jtgJzB-aMBEiQA-WzDMX9UKuxb2i9uo7zXZqzUG4DCY5-L6wd30Ks6N_PBjCQaAkRz8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds
@Uriel1816 water is definitely darker than typical aquarium water. water does not muddy at all, though if worms are used there is less need for filtering out all solids.
Love it. I'd love to see an update.
Hi Kalidabod, Thank you. We are living in hotter climates every year. What is happening in desert climates like Saudi Arabia to keep cool?
I've been looking at earthbag/adobe designs as previously advanced by Iranian born architect Khalili. Earthen homes cooled by chimney effect, convection and sub floor cooling (geothermal) may be the future. Bringing food production indoors we'll be better prepared to survive inclement weather on all continents and maintain local year round food production.
Sure. Works both ways. We prefer internal as it calls for less equipment and energy.
Wont the worm castings spoil the water?
This won't lead to compaction?
it's 2013 now and I was wondering how the results are? Do you have a followup on this by any chance?
Which stone would you recommend for fruits/vegetables? I'm starting my aquaponics for mainly vegetables in the next few months.
I believe Bright Agrotech introduced red worms into their systems some time ago. He raves about them in his videos as well.
So you put the worms directly into the rocks?
Don't they drown??
yes. they are more prone to freezing or to drying up if the beds are not maintained, though their eggs will survive through the winter.
Oh, well that's cool!
@hutch8614 . ideally a neutral or slightly acid forming stone would be nice. 3/4" is good or mixed with smaller.
I think Growing Power in Milwaukee uses something similar, using worm casting with aquaponics. Not 100% sure though.
@hutch8614. yes thanks for the feedback. i'm in favor of larger stone. also like stone that has more acid character. slate and limestone are difficult to bring to below pH 7.
Hi
Do you have any fish in this system? or this is 100% vermaponics ?
very interesting concept!
Great Video!, good information.
What do you think about a flooded compost blue barrel with earthworms? I'm thinking about using rabbit manure and aerating the water in the compost barrel. This will be for my flood and drain beds.
What was the media you were using in your grow tanks?
So many videos, are jerky, say nothing, except "check out my amazing bell siphon". I learned so much,from your explanations, i didn't even need the visual. Both werre great! yep subscribed, and learning every day!
@esidrdave don't forget to physically hand turn the rock bedding after each harvest. Removing leftover root matter , etc.,.This will assist in the bed not becoming compacted do to soil build up. Worm are beneficial, they will live in the top layer, not liking to be fully submurged, don't forget to feed the worms.
Where do I find this light weight aerated slate?
Dear sir, you obviously have valuable knowledge to share, but your video skills are not up to par with your vermiculture skills. A single camera pointed at the plants while you speak (and not aimed very well sometimes IMHO) does not add value to your info. I would suggest either a tripod (get yourself in video and then edit afterward) or a friend who has some skills with single camera shots to plan what it is you are trying to showcase visually in synchrony with your audio. A small amount of preparation before hitting the 'record' button, or perhaps some review and editing, will improve the delivery of your topic. Best wishes with your project and thank you for sharing.
Especially with all the wiggling and constant movement of the camera. On a laptop, with the screen close to your face, on fullscreen, it is just plain unwatchable. I had to scroll down to the comments just to make it stop and just listen to the the audio. Great content though! Thanks.
I'm currently building a pretty good sized aquaponic system and had planned to add earthworms for this very reason. Nice to see someone else using their brain.
can you grow or float trays of wheatgrass within the system so the wheatgrass grows faster or would the wheatgrass drown or get to soggy? Also can an ubove ground pool with about 15,000 gallons of water be used for aquaponics or does the water/pond need to be off the ground?
a tank that big would require a huge amount of grow beds. For example one 275 gallon tank with 150 fingerlings supports 3 4x8 grow tables so think about what how many fish and grow tables you would need to be successful with 15000 gallons
I prefer media beds. We place burlap on trays within the flood and drain beds. This gives us a nitrified water source plus allows roots to grow in beds.
Yes and no. we're not relying on fish for plant nutrition. We get better fertility with primordial soup teas and biomass tea bags.
Granite Dust from artwork on headstones, dose really well to fortify the soil.
I wish to thank Marc Abelha for showing my how much I didn't understand or appreciate about your video. Then I went to HIS website...trust me it is the Holy Grail of...ah..Marc Abelha! Seriously David. You are doing a fine job. I find your presentation easy to understand. I am considering getting into aquaponics and worms might be what I was looking for as I use them to eat down chicken waste and provide a fall snack for our hogs. We even sell a large amount of worms. The chickens like them too.
So did the worms help with the Iron issue?
Don't see a worm and iron connection. Was that mentioned in video?
David Epstein iron defficiency is a common problem with aquaponics
skyhawk551 just mix some nails into your medium - that will fix it - unless you use brass nails, but then you would have to be a real knob to do that!
***** lol sorry buddy hand full of rusty nails doesn't work that is a old wives tail... Not the correct for of IRON for plants... Chelated iron is bonded to thinks like amnion acids that allows the plant to up take the iron..
For a new growbed installation, would you recommend that I wait for some build-up of organic matter before adding earthworms? Or would it be best to infuse a mix of warms and castings when setting up the table?
Thanks for posting this video, it's very informative!
Yes I recommend adding some organic matter. In fact, adding roots to your grow beds prior to planting and populating with worms adds great benefit. The roots have rhizobacteria and mycorrhizomes that will colonize on your new roots. Also the roots and microbes provide feed to the worms.
David Epstein thank you very much for taking the time to provide this informative and helpful answer! By roots, do you mean any plants' softer, white roots, or would any root-stock be sufficient? The larger, woodier variety? I live in Thailand, so I have many choices available. Thanks again for your help!
is that type of aragonite common at gardening stores? I've been searching google an the aragonite i've been finding is reef sand for aquariums, is that what you used? also how did the vermiculture and aragonite mix? I've seen people do the same with hydroton but aragonite looks more like it replicates natural soil
It's actually expanded shale. Aragonite is probably too alkaline and expensive.
The worms help to provide air to the root systems. Roots need air to thrive well.
@dangloc89 not at all. they survive under water in beds for 30 minutes at a time without any problem. they can withstand even longer if the beds don't drain for any reason. very important. if they did however die in beds and decompose they contribute more nitrogen to beds which will be absorbed once other more microscopic decomposers reduce. but worms are hugely important as one will notice by pulling out plants. there is always one or two worms in each plant root ball.
which bioponica website? the blog, the dotORG, the dotNET?
For sure this will work, worms are awesome in the system as long as they can breath. As this video is quite old my guess is you had great success!
Happy Gardening
Marty Ware from Australia
@shelladavis no. worms can withstand ebb and flow quite well. there's plenty of oxygen within the porous stone media to keep them going a long time.
to be honest i think aquaponics can still make a lot of use of dead plant matter, where else are you going to get trace elements, such as zinc, and the best for of zinc are in dead plant matter, do to the fact that it is the safest place, too much or too little can harm your plant or stunt its growth, also looks like your plants need some epson salt, some of them are looking too yellow.
lots of ways to get the nutrients. heard of bioponics?
Worms will NOT completely eliminate the need for (pump) filtration. But plants will :) check out low tech planted aquariums umbrella plants and mangroves are fantastic filters!
This was quite clear to me; thanks for the excellent video.
Thanks for the feedback. That was an older video. Watch latest to see updates. Things have changed considerably.
Ebb & flow, an original hydroponics methodology, floods the media from the bottom upwards, and then often drains back through the pump itself.
This method, when used in aquaponics, pushs the wastes into the bottom of the media, and then drags them back down (often through the pump) into the fish tank, not good for the pump, and definitely not good for the fish
It only acheives a very minimal aeration of any water returning to the fish tank. Flood & drain, top watered and siphoned is preferable
Do you have algae build up in your system and if so, how do you naturally resolve this matter? No chemicals please.
It's good to do on the land. We're demonstrating a way to do with less labor, more conservation of water and recycling of nutrients.
Not yet. But stay tuned at our website. We have a patented pending on the Trickle Valve yet plan to show a design with video and schematic soon as it is a US patent only. First have to get get creative commons setup for images before posting live.
Won't the earthworms drown?
Nope, I got lots of worms living in my system just fine.
same when rains and all floods, they can take the oxygen from the water as well than from the earth or mud/
nope
fdf
***** you take some Combantrin then
ME too !! I would like to Thank Marc.
Worms in an aquaponic system certainly help with the breakdown of wastes, and release of micro-elements, but heavy feeders often still require and/or benefit from supplementation.
Worms in an aquaponic system will NOT "eliminate the need for filtration", a fundamental aquaponics concept, and it would be disastorously wrong to suggest such
I'm actively seeking those who've done and/or are doing vermiponics. I want to start up a system ( tho it's now rather late in the year to start ) and am looking for info based on the experiences of those who've been there and done / doing that.
Murray Hallum also adds worms to his systems. It's all about recreating an ecosystem. Nice system. :)
Compost worms will not harm your crops at all. As far as I can see this guys description of his "red wrigglers" as "earthworms" is both inaccurate and misleading. He is using red worms of the "compost" variety and not the big greyish "earth" worms you find when digging in deep soil. Eisenia foetida are considered to be the best worms for most composting criteria and would probably work well for you here. Hope this helps.