It's been established before in the Buffy'verse that time moves faster in hell dimensions relative to the real world. So, no time travel involved per se. Just a side effect of vacationing in a hell dimension before returning.
Angel been stuck in Acathla Hell Dimension for three hundred years inside until The Powers That Be bring him back to Earth. Connor been trapped in Quor'Toth Hell Dimension for sixteen years inside because of Daniel Holtz kidnapped Connor in the first place when Connor was four months old baby. Connor is The Destroyer.
The kitchen scene of this episode was filmed in the now demolished Ambassador Hotel. It is the very same kitchen Senator Robert Kennedy walked though seconds before he was shot.
Alcohol is a liquid that dries out the drinker. It also stands to reason that since SanJon could open a portal to that hell dimension that Connor could too, when he got old enough.
I've drawn comparisons between Angel's choices last season & Wesley's choice this season but comparing Angel not calling Cordelia after Wesley did what he did is new to me, also really not comparable is it? You seem to be drawing a comparison between Angel not calling Cordelia & Wesley not telling the team about the prophecy. Which, you know, skips over the fact that Wesley kidnapped his baby...then taking the baby out of the hotel & away from the team enabled Holtz's apprentice to kidnap the already kidnapped kid, so kidnapping squared. And what would calling Cordelia had done? She was in another country or State, Wesley had already kidnapped Conner, how was she supposed to stop something that already happened from happening. I think the last comment you read about this topic may have meant that if Cordelia was there then Wesley wouldn't have been able to kidnap Conner because Cordelia & Wesley would've talked & she would've set him straight, preventing him from stealing the baby. Once the baby has been stolen, calling Cordelia can't really fix anything as hours passed between Wesley taking Conner & Conner going to hell. She wouldn't have been able to get back in time to stop any of that. As for Gunn, he grew up on the streets in a war against the vamps, continually losing people, so losing Wesley because Wesley betrayed, through manipulation sure, the team probably won't hit him the same. Remember when his old gang torched Lorne's place & Gunn shared his feelings about Angel? Gunn grew up in a whole different world, it's like him trading his soul for the truck that could keep his people alive, his soul was worth it to save a few of his group. To Gunn, growing up like that betrayal from a team member has to be the worst but I'm just projecting. Gunn is different, they all are, so their reactions are, it makes the show compelling. Again, though, that's just my perspective, yours is quite different apparently so that makes your reaction interesting. Hope you're having a great week Dakara & that you've recovered from the Buffy episode. Or maybe you filmed this first.
Not that I don't think he owed Cordelia a call of course, I just think with your baby kidnapped you're allowed to put aside healthy communication. Though, I do agree with you that Cordelia, specifically Cordy, should have gone to speak to Wesley but I'm not certain how many days have passed yet. Or weeks.
I mean if we really look at Gunn's history it all kinda makes sense. Gunn was reaaallly slow to join the group, just last season Cordy went missing and he almost skipped out on looking for her because of his loyalty to his other group. At that time Gunn was the only character that didn't have the Sunnydale backstory. We might even imagine a history where change in leadership and crew nembers was pretty common. I think Gunn was a character who was always meant to prioritize loyalty. He only bonded wiith wesley after they we're all fired and more so after wesley demonstrated his loyalty by taking that gunshot wound. When Angel returned to the group the gunn and wesley dynamic already stsrted diverted back to what it was. Wesley was harsh amount forcing gunn to pick sides and they bickered and disagreed even more by the time they were in Pylea. Then, the separation grew to extremes with Fred in the picture and wesley being a little bitter and authoritarsn as their boss about it. Suffice to say im sure how "close" Gunn ever really was to the group. I think Gunn has always been in the picture because he truly believes in their cause, as does the rest of them. I think of when Angel.had thst talk with him and Gunn says he might never get past the vampire side of Angel, but at the end of the day thst doesnt matter to Gunn, what matters to Gunn is 'doing the right thing' and that belief is what bounds them together. Wesley on the other hand acted in a way (on more than 1 occasion that might challenge what the right this is, and him and Gunn have different beliefs about that at times. Wesley is always willing to make what ever sacrafice is necessary (remember he wanted to sacrfice Willow to stop the mayor and hand off faith to the council), Gunn on the other hand isn't likely to sacrafice anyone he loves because his value for loyalty is that high.
Starting at the the ending here of The Price, having seen the shows many times Connor is without doubt my most hated character from The Buffyverse at this point ( yes, even as much as Warren ). The mayhem and chaos brought by this kid is unbelievable. Angel of course must pay 'The Price' for what he wants, unleashing strange forces in the process. Fred struggling with the translations desperately needing Wesley's expertise. A funny scene when Cordelia says 'we've got a pool'. A great scene when Gunn goes in search of Wesley, and we see how Wesley has changed completely, he now has a 'hardness' to him after his terrible ordeal, and it is amazing to think this was the bumbling fool we were introduced to in BTVS S3. His character arc is the most incredible of all characters in The Buffyverse. Cordelia of course now has amazing powers, and is able to use them. The Destroyer when he appears is brought back with Connor. Let all hell break loose!
Are we forgetting Connor was manipulated the entire time he was on the show?? First by Holtz in season 3 and then by you know who in season 4. He’s only free of all of that in season 5. Connor is actually one of my favorite characters in both shows. I love him so much. Connor is a good person with a tragic story. He trusted you know who more than any one and that made it fairly easy for manipulation to take place.
@@twinkielove6337 Connor was been mantiplatived by Jasmine aka The Beastmaster possessed Connor's surrogate mom Cordelia in Angel season 4. I know Connor is good person with tragic life. His childhood been robbed by Daniel Holtz, Sahjhan, Justine Cooper, Jasmine aka The Beastmaster and Wolfram&Hart. They own that kid a childhood. They wronged Connor the most. Connor is my favorite too.
Your unpopular opinion on Wesley is not the reason you are my favorite reactor but I think it is indicative of one of the reasons why I love your commentaries. I love the way you connect with the characters and empathize and the details you pick up on. It keeps sounding to me like we are in pretty strong agreement about the situation, and this is probably the first time I've seen it. I've heard a lot of "he didn't even acknowledge that he did wrong" but my guess is that if they'd given him a chance when he actually could talk that would have been the first thing he said. Not that I think people should forgive him outright immediately and I understand Angel was upset but it felt like others could have done just a bit more to acknowledge how close they had all been. That doesn't mean playing happy families right away at all, just IDK Gun and Cordy basically dropping him without any conversation always felt unsatisfying to me.
Of course Wesley's intentions were initially good, but you have to wonder what his overall plan was. Give up Connor to some stranger for adoption? Raise Connor himself? Hell of a burden to take on considering he has no bond with Connor whatsoever other than the fact that he's his friend Angel's son. I know Wesley meant well but his bond with Angel should have taken precedence. But hey, that's fictional TV drama for you, folks. Makin' sure characters do the wrong thing to keep the story interesting
I always thought he did do it out of loyalty to Angel more than Connor. Knowing that Angel told Wesley previously that one of the reasons he respected Wesley was that he knew Weasley would do what it took to protect others from him and knowing that Angel would never forgive himself if he hurt Connor, I took what he did as loyalty to Angel. That's not to say he shouldn't have talked to someone though. That always just felt like Buffy writers being Buffy writers. People so rarely ever communicate about their problems well in the Whedonverse.
It's been established before in the Buffy'verse that time moves faster in hell dimensions relative to the real world. So, no time travel involved per se. Just a side effect of vacationing in a hell dimension before returning.
And on the day that the phrase "They grow up so fast" was demonstrated, we were here to witness it.
I like the callback to the Buffy s6e3 with thaumogenesis
"Wy do things always have to go in through mouths or eyes?" Well there is another location they could enter and I dont think thats better. Lol
Ears? You're talking about ears right?
@@obredaanps3😂
Remember when Angel went to a hell dimension? And remember how where Conner went is a hell dimension?
And when Buffy went into a hell dimension, and the demon specifically noted the time differential for that particular dimension.
Angel been stuck in Acathla Hell Dimension for three hundred years inside until The Powers That Be bring him back to Earth.
Connor been trapped in Quor'Toth Hell Dimension for sixteen years inside because of Daniel Holtz kidnapped Connor in the first place when Connor was four months old baby.
Connor is The Destroyer.
"Hi dad!"
Loved your reaction to, "Hey dad." 😂❤
The kitchen scene of this episode was filmed in the now demolished Ambassador Hotel. It is the very same kitchen Senator Robert Kennedy walked though seconds before he was shot.
Alcohol is a liquid that dries out the drinker. It also stands to reason that since SanJon could open a portal to that hell dimension that Connor could too, when he got old enough.
Oh shit. Pete Campbell is emo
I've drawn comparisons between Angel's choices last season & Wesley's choice this season but comparing Angel not calling Cordelia after Wesley did what he did is new to me, also really not comparable is it? You seem to be drawing a comparison between Angel not calling Cordelia & Wesley not telling the team about the prophecy. Which, you know, skips over the fact that Wesley kidnapped his baby...then taking the baby out of the hotel & away from the team enabled Holtz's apprentice to kidnap the already kidnapped kid, so kidnapping squared. And what would calling Cordelia had done? She was in another country or State, Wesley had already kidnapped Conner, how was she supposed to stop something that already happened from happening. I think the last comment you read about this topic may have meant that if Cordelia was there then Wesley wouldn't have been able to kidnap Conner because Cordelia & Wesley would've talked & she would've set him straight, preventing him from stealing the baby. Once the baby has been stolen, calling Cordelia can't really fix anything as hours passed between Wesley taking Conner & Conner going to hell. She wouldn't have been able to get back in time to stop any of that. As for Gunn, he grew up on the streets in a war against the vamps, continually losing people, so losing Wesley because Wesley betrayed, through manipulation sure, the team probably won't hit him the same. Remember when his old gang torched Lorne's place & Gunn shared his feelings about Angel? Gunn grew up in a whole different world, it's like him trading his soul for the truck that could keep his people alive, his soul was worth it to save a few of his group. To Gunn, growing up like that betrayal from a team member has to be the worst but I'm just projecting. Gunn is different, they all are, so their reactions are, it makes the show compelling. Again, though, that's just my perspective, yours is quite different apparently so that makes your reaction interesting. Hope you're having a great week Dakara & that you've recovered from the Buffy episode. Or maybe you filmed this first.
Not that I don't think he owed Cordelia a call of course, I just think with your baby kidnapped you're allowed to put aside healthy communication. Though, I do agree with you that Cordelia, specifically Cordy, should have gone to speak to Wesley but I'm not certain how many days have passed yet. Or weeks.
He's back
I mean if we really look at Gunn's history it all kinda makes sense. Gunn was reaaallly slow to join the group, just last season Cordy went missing and he almost skipped out on looking for her because of his loyalty to his other group. At that time Gunn was the only character that didn't have the Sunnydale backstory. We might even imagine a history where change in leadership and crew nembers was pretty common. I think Gunn was a character who was always meant to prioritize loyalty. He only bonded wiith wesley after they we're all fired and more so after wesley demonstrated his loyalty by taking that gunshot wound. When Angel returned to the group the gunn and wesley dynamic already stsrted diverted back to what it was. Wesley was harsh amount forcing gunn to pick sides and they bickered and disagreed even more by the time they were in Pylea. Then, the separation grew to extremes with Fred in the picture and wesley being a little bitter and authoritarsn as their boss about it. Suffice to say im sure how "close" Gunn ever really was to the group. I think Gunn has always been in the picture because he truly believes in their cause, as does the rest of them. I think of when Angel.had thst talk with him and Gunn says he might never get past the vampire side of Angel, but at the end of the day thst doesnt matter to Gunn, what matters to Gunn is 'doing the right thing' and that belief is what bounds them together. Wesley on the other hand acted in a way (on more than 1 occasion that might challenge what the right this is, and him and Gunn have different beliefs about that at times. Wesley is always willing to make what ever sacrafice is necessary (remember he wanted to sacrfice Willow to stop the mayor and hand off faith to the council), Gunn on the other hand isn't likely to sacrafice anyone he loves because his value for loyalty is that high.
We're thirsty!
Enter The destroyer! Connor 👊
"That's just not the name you wanna hear!"
No. Make it go away.
Connor is awful.
Starting at the the ending here of The Price, having seen the shows many times Connor is without doubt my most hated character from The Buffyverse at this point ( yes, even as much as Warren ). The mayhem and chaos brought by this kid is unbelievable. Angel of course must pay 'The Price' for what he wants, unleashing strange forces in the process. Fred struggling with the translations desperately needing Wesley's expertise. A funny scene when Cordelia says 'we've got a pool'. A great scene when Gunn goes in search of Wesley, and we see how Wesley has changed completely, he now has a 'hardness' to him after his terrible ordeal, and it is amazing to think this was the bumbling fool we were introduced to in BTVS S3. His character arc is the most incredible of all characters in The Buffyverse. Cordelia of course now has amazing powers, and is able to use them. The Destroyer when he appears is brought back with Connor. Let all hell break loose!
But unlike warren, connor has a reason for why he is the way he is. So to me warren is still the most hated
Are we forgetting Connor was manipulated the entire time he was on the show?? First by Holtz in season 3 and then by you know who in season 4. He’s only free of all of that in season 5. Connor is actually one of my favorite characters in both shows. I love him so much. Connor is a good person with a tragic story. He trusted you know who more than any one and that made it fairly easy for manipulation to take place.
@@twinkielove6337 Connor was been mantiplatived by Jasmine aka The Beastmaster possessed Connor's surrogate mom Cordelia in Angel season 4.
I know Connor is good person with tragic life. His childhood been robbed by Daniel Holtz, Sahjhan, Justine Cooper, Jasmine aka The Beastmaster and Wolfram&Hart. They own that kid a childhood. They wronged Connor the most.
Connor is my favorite too.
@@izhirallen8746 I was kind of leaving out Jasmine’s name as too not spoil season 4 for Dakara…
@@twinkielove6337sorry.
Watch Night action series ❤
"A trick by someone else who's unbelievably cruel" shut up
Your unpopular opinion on Wesley is not the reason you are my favorite reactor but I think it is indicative of one of the reasons why I love your commentaries. I love the way you connect with the characters and empathize and the details you pick up on. It keeps sounding to me like we are in pretty strong agreement about the situation, and this is probably the first time I've seen it.
I've heard a lot of "he didn't even acknowledge that he did wrong" but my guess is that if they'd given him a chance when he actually could talk that would have been the first thing he said. Not that I think people should forgive him outright immediately and I understand Angel was upset but it felt like others could have done just a bit more to acknowledge how close they had all been. That doesn't mean playing happy families right away at all, just IDK Gun and Cordy basically dropping him without any conversation always felt unsatisfying to me.
They may not have talked to Wes, but Wes didn’t talk to them either.
Of course Wesley's intentions were initially good, but you have to wonder what his overall plan was. Give up Connor to some stranger for adoption? Raise Connor himself? Hell of a burden to take on considering he has no bond with Connor whatsoever other than the fact that he's his friend Angel's son. I know Wesley meant well but his bond with Angel should have taken precedence. But hey, that's fictional TV drama for you, folks. Makin' sure characters do the wrong thing to keep the story interesting
I always thought he did do it out of loyalty to Angel more than Connor. Knowing that Angel told Wesley previously that one of the reasons he respected Wesley was that he knew Weasley would do what it took to protect others from him and knowing that Angel would never forgive himself if he hurt Connor, I took what he did as loyalty to Angel.
That's not to say he shouldn't have talked to someone though. That always just felt like Buffy writers being Buffy writers. People so rarely ever communicate about their problems well in the Whedonverse.
Boo. Connor sucks. Boo.