The Jax Problem - "Morally Grey" Characters
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- Опубліковано 15 тра 2024
- They're not really morally grey... At least from what I've seen.
Time for a short rant - Regular content coming back this weekend
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#amazingdigitalcircus #rant #jax - Фільми й анімація
I like Jax BECAUSE he is a prick. Because Digital Circus is well, DIGITAL, Jax is goes full GTA player causing mayhem for shits and giggles.
I like Jax because he kinda reminds me of Bender from Futurama.
Fr, some people (us) just love douchebag characters. They can be so much fun!
I like jax as a character because I hate him.
Which is a job well done when it comes to his purpose.
Im glad there no trace of bots in the comments section there was so many bots spamming every where for the last week that's relate to Digital Circuses
He’s like jack homer, except he’s more chaotic neutral(I think that’s the correct term) instead of chaotic evil
The problem with jax is not really a problem with him, its the problem with his fans, they expected some kind of rouge with a heart of gold when in reality he was always a douchebag people just put nobility there when none existed
That's why I said the "jax problem' not the problem with Jax :)
@Mangakamen honestly, the more valid criticism for how Jax was portrayed in episode 2 is that they overdid his asshole behavior in comparison to episode 1.
Which, I kinda agree with since his behavior in episode 2 would've fit better in the 3rd or 4th episode especially given the gap in time between the 1st and 2nd episodes release...
He ain't the only one. It's just that people are used to having sympathetic jerk characters in the past few years now
@@26th_PrimarchI wouldn't even say that. He was shown to be a jerk in the first episode but was more casual about it because one, he didn't care about the adventure and two, abstraction monster on the loose. In this episode he's shown right at the gate that he's interested in the adventure and becomes moreso when the group is given an actual adversary to fight with weapons. It was grounds to cause havoc and he was on board. I wouldn't say that they overdid or played up his dickish-ness, rather they just used what was already established with the added bonus to get people to stop forcing their headcanons as real
If there's gold, it's buried DEEP.
Remember: if your headcanon doesn’t align with canon, adjust your headcanon instead of trying to adjust the canon itself.
Edit: or create an AU for your headcanon to thrive
Edit 2: I also see some people who say "don't make headcanons altogether" but I don't agree, like...just let people have their fun? Sheesh.
But that's less work than actively ranting about it and being toxic! Wait...
Or just stop caring.
See: Way too many modern iterations of established franchises.
Expecting people to be reasonable about their feeling and thoughts on fictional characters in an animated show?
That's hilarious, if it was that easy these things would never happen in the first place.
The cruel reality is that people are too immature, too obsessed, too delusional or just too mentally dependant to not do these things.
Many people online are thinking like children that only they are right and that everything has to happen for them in the way they want it. Others create scenarios to cope, sometimes adapting those characters as personalities to reflect themselves or to fill some kind of void. Trust me I've interacted with some on a personal level and it's not pretty, you can't reason with them, it's like a personal attack to them to even suggest anything that they don't agree with and first thing they do is scream at you at how much you care about their "opinions", opinions which are treated by them as facts wearing the skin of "it's just an opinion" as a shield to criticism.
This delusion of what a character is supposed to be runs so deep that it becomes the truth to them, no matter how much of it is just headcanon in actuality.
It's often times obsession with a cool new thing that just understands them so well that it becomes them so that any word against it is insulting to them personally.
And that's why these people can't adjust, it requires maturity, self reflection, understanding of reality and most importantly time, which these guys are not willing to spend adjusting themselves when they believe they are right in the first place.
Or just accept that this canon is, in fact, in your head
Tell that to the Gwen is Trans gang.
Gooseworx once mentioned that Jax deserved to be in the circus the most out of everyone. This implies he wasn’t a great guy even in his previous life.
Instead, the Jax fandom had interpreted that line to believe he is an npc instead of a bad person. I find that to be a massive reach.
@@sardonicus1739 Jax being an NPC makes a lot of sense since he seems to be pushing the characters into the adventures like Caine does.
@@justice8718But she said that this theory will not happen.
@@LuisBlackbThat's not fun. Let the fans figure out things by themselves. Is fun if we are dead wrong.
You know what would be hilarious? Gooseworx did say Jax does eventually do something irredeemable, so what if his irredeemable act is finding out a way to escape from the circus and then not helping anyone else get out and just walking away?
"The Jax Problem" is that people based off their entire idea of the character from one episode, babyfied it, and now they are left sour because their headcanon didn't match reality.
Based also on one episode I may add
It doesn't help it takes so long for new episodes to come out that Headcanon will start taking over.
@@arnowisp6244 That's not the fault of the creators
@@loserinasuit7880 Yeah. Yeah. Sadly this is inevitable.
and even then, how the hell do they come to that conclusion? all eh did in the first episode was:
-grab zooble's arm without asking her to scratch his own back
-stole keys to everyone's room
-left ragatha and Pomni for dead against abstracted Kaufmo
-pushed Kinger and Gangle into a hole
and i'm probably forgetting some
what in hell did anyone find to make him a "grey" character when he is just an asshole at BEST, and only out for his own skin at worse?
People tend to think that mean characters are overly shitty for no reason. Jax also isn’t morally gray, he’s just a complete prick probably as a coping mechanism(but that’s just a theory).
A FILM THEORY, THANKS FOR WATCHING
Yea I agree a good person can do bad things and vice versa
Plus since he's in a digital world he can do whatever he wants because there aren't any consequences
Literally Dr. Jack Bright
I think he’s morally grey in the sense that there are many shades of it, and he just happens to be a very dark one
Like Alastor, when the tumbler sexy man really doesn’t act sexy, fans are mad.
The idea of Jax being "tumbler sexy man"
I so wild to me.
Like ok tumbler nuts, but dont go claim you better than reddit or twitter.
@@MouseGoat Well
it's hard to be lower than Twitter
Reddit at least can create something and people on Tumblr are capable of positivity
@@MouseGoat I know I’m arguably guilty of the same thing (claiming superiority over other media users) but it’s accurate.
People where getting mad at alastor gor the scene of him threating husk lif
Is in character for alastor but people were surprise to de how cruel alastor could be
I still like both of them 🙂↕️
everyone wants the "character who seems like a jerk but actually cares" person to be Jax when Zooble is *right there*
it doesnt help that zooble is easily forgotten in both episodes
Justice for Zooble
@@AsterWiher whole shtick is that she is apathetic and doesn’t want to entertain Cain’s antics. She doesn’t care but isn’t heartless like Jax who seeks to cause chaos.
@@Polomance862 but still its easy to forget about zooble
@@AsterWi poor zoob :(
He's definitely an "antagonist lite," not someone who's an outright villain but definitely opposes the protagonist.
but
you just described the definition of a antagonist.
An antagonist by definition is "one who opposes the protagonist". You can have two hero characters, with one being the protagonist while the other is the antagonist. Hell, you can have a villain protagonist and a hero antagonist.
@@SaiyanGamer95 ok let me be more clear, he opposes the protagonist morally. So you could make the argument that Cain is the true antagonist who completely opposes the group, while Jax is someone who simply won't help the group because of his views on their situation and this could very well change into him becoming either a protagonist or a true antagonist.
So you could say jax is a anti-hero
@@Scotobotsrolloutin no way he a hero of any kind, let alone a anti-hero, nor have any traits to suggest him going down that way.
My real question is: how did people somehow come to the conclusion that Jax cares for other people deep down? Even as early as the pilot, he stepped on Gangle's already broken mask, used Zooble's arm as a backscratcher without their consent, shoved Gangle on the ground to get on the escalator first, and especially left Ragatha and Pomni at the mercy of Abstracted Kaufmo. I'm pretty sure that's nowhere near the behavior of someone who cares for others
The Gangle abuse by Jax is real😢
A tumbler-esc headcanon of a bad man with a heart of gold mixed in with the lack of media literacy when it comes to the separation of "canon" and "headcanon" seems to be the reason why.
Seriously, that headcanon mixup where people feel entitled to having the character work the way they thought the character would work is annoying af, and it happens in a lot of fandoms.
It's because he made a sad frowny face for half a second when Ragatha mentioned the funerals. Going by what Gooseworx has said about him, he's much more likely to be sad for himself in that moment, like he knows no one will want to give him a funeral when he's gone, but still refuses to change.
i imagine it's just because people want to think he'll become a better person later on, it's like an "i can fix him" sort of thing i guess. it sounds like he's only going to get worse though, so i wonder how people are gonna react to that
@@binkyboy448 I feel like it is also upset/annoyed that they're even doing it especially that he wasn't even invited.
I’m still a Big Jax fan but it’s gonna be very interesting that Jax will get “worse and worse” as the season goes on since Gooseworx says “only the strongest Jax fans will survive” so let’s see where Jax’s character goes from here.
Could He be the next Simon from Infinity Train?
I mean I personally have always loved the Redeemed antagonist trope for quite a while yet we have gotten a flood of those over the past decade. Having someone like Jax may be a breath of fresh air for people tired of seeing the Villainous character getting redeemed.
But yeah if we’re comparing Jax to Bender from Futurama than yeah they’re both pretty similar but Where Bender is better is that he does genuinely like Fry , his first human friend and has his good moments.
Same
@@stinkymrsnow..............Yeah I LOVE the redeemed antagonist trope but we’ve already had a flood of those in recent years, (Bakugou Katsuki, Lilith Clawthorne, Sasha Waybright, Catra, Loki from Avengers) so Jax could be a breath of fresh air
He could go the route of Simon, where he just stops caring about anything and becomes a reckless antagonist. If we're talking Infinity Train comparisons, maybe Pomni or Ragatha could be similar to Grace.
@@suspiciousstar7547Yeah I personally like the idea of him being an interesting Villain protagonist (or Anti-Villain) that grows negativity in contrast to someone like Pomni who could eventually have positive growth, considering she doesn’t go through a psychotic breakdown by the season finale of course if she goes through worse things than seeing Gumigoo die.
@@toadlord8594 Yeah
I see jax character going in two directions:
He might go a vegeta arc: starting out without empathy but developes some humanity and embrace it.
Or
He becomes a straight up villain: becoming worse every episode to the point that he starts to become the series main/final villain.
GooseWorx said it's closer to the second option.
Personally Jax really doesn't give off villain vibes to me, he seems more like a secondary antagonist in the grand scheme of things.
He seems more like a bully character than a villain. Just imagining it is weird, ultimately it's about leaving the simulation and him as the primary force to stop you from achieving that just doesn't fit.
I doubt he'd go Villain route but it's also possible he might not go Vegeta route. As of right now, I'm assuming more along the lines of 'token evil teammate'.
@@ProfessorNilo The main villain doesn’t have to be the one running the simulation
@@cosmicspacething3474 Then let me ask you something. What would be our villains climax in the story. As much as this is an episodic show every episode will presumably follow a timeline of important events. You can't possibly believe that our main antagonist, the villain will not have a great climax by the end of it... do you?
So tell me, if our villain just does things because he wants to and our protagonist's goals are mostly seperate from what the villain cares about how is there gonna be a real clash that causes a climax?
We have famous characters like Eric Cartman, whose existence feels like just troll and to do something shocking, yet people are eager to see what he does next.
I swear, Its like y'all got caught up in the "tumblr sexyman" trend, that folks are upset that their purple bugs bunny doesn't match their fanfics.
Lmao
It's because Cartman gets what's coming to him and his plans usually backfire. The audience just wants to see if he actually succeeds or not. Cartman also has some redeeming qualities. Not a lot but enough to make him bearable.
Cartman isn't hot, that's the real difference.
Well, at least I hope people don't find Cartman hot......
Edit: I mean, I find it weird how people find Jax hot, but it isn't as morally dubious a concept so it isn't as bad
@@Y.o.s.h It depends on the episode. Episodes like Human CentiPad & Ginger Cow are some of the worst episodes & really show how bad a character like him can be when the writers are too busy jerking it to their own art to remember to give the viewers a reason to laugh.
@@D_YellowMadness tbf in the human centipad he got struck by lighting after he insulted God at the end of the episode
Jax just strikes me as Zoomer Humor Bugs Bunny. Like, thats what Bugs would be like if he first debuted in THIS culture instead of the 40s. Of course he's a snarking absolute prick with no moral compass beyond "what benefits me personally"
good point.
the looney tunes and classic cartoons are WAY worse than jax (remember that most protags would ruin random strangers lives for no reason every ep) but ppl dont seem to realize this.
@@juuchan5795The amount of suicide jokes surprised me
Yep, he made me think of a modern day bugs Bunny.
His words are more harsh to match our language changes in society.
His actions honestly come off more as a light version of what Bugs does. Bugs has done some far worse things than Jax has.
Bugs Bunny is a trickster to survive, it becomes part of his personality.
Since it's his life he just "has fun with it" he can't "play nice" or it will cause him to be successfully "hunted"
Jax is in a similar situation. He is doing what he can to survive in the conditions they are dealt.
As reference to another series, Hazbin Hotel, look at Alastar. (Despite not knowing what his intentions are completely, but it can be assumed he wants to free himself)
He himself said he puts on a smile all the time even if he doesn't wanna smile because it makes everyone not know what you are thinking, you are a mystery to all.
Perhaps he does this to hide his intentions from Caine. He can't stop what Caine sees, but Caine can't see his thoughts. So maybe he figured out a system to find patterns and such to "find a way out" maybe all his actions are indeed intentionally jerky, but each action has a purpose in helping to find a way out.
Since he can't do it himself without being seen as obvious on certain things, he now has started to "use" Pomni, since she has shown strong interest in escaping.
But he still does essentially what Pomni is doing in his own way, but since he just observed or seems chaotic, he can get away with what he is actually doing. He may be trying to break enough of the physics and other things to find a pattern or "door" he hasn't accessed before.
Aka, he is working like a "hacker" or similar in games.
I mean, feels kinda like he intentionally glitched Pomni with the truck, wanted things to happen while he distracted the others with the big Fudge guy.
I'm not saying he is a "good guy" he is a jerk, but he isn't an "antagonist" unless he intentionally traps everyone else and chooses to escape and prevent an exit ever again, I don't think he can ever be the villain. He can cause issues and problems in the story, but anyone could do that regardless of personality. But I feel he might be one of the biggest factors to finding a way out.
He may have actually been doing so secretly with Kaufmo before things went down as they did.
I mean, even more out there and ties into the NPC thing, what if Kaufmo secretly found out a way to create his own NPC in secrecy to infiltrate as a human, to keep Kaufmos work going because he had a feeling he himself wouldn't make it out. What if Jax wasn't an NPC Caine created and forgot about, but Jax was literally inserted to pretend to be a human from the start, has his own room and everything.
But what if something in the void can help the humans create as well? Which is why Caine is so weird about it, also said he didn't build further out (expand more into the void) why he said they would get "spoiled" etc.
What if throwing the abstracted into the void fixes them?
I don’t understand why characters just can’t be pure mean or bad without any sad backstories, why their acting’s have to be “justified” when people can just enjoy the character as it is for being bad
I think it's kinda cycled here: long ago, villains didn't have a sad backstory, or backstory at all. They were bad just because. Then it just got 'out of fashion', just like 'perfect' superheroes without flaws.
Then you have that weird gray area where characters have reasons/motivations that are somehow interpreted as “sad backstories” by fans.
Like. Reasons that MAKE SENSE do not make someone a sympathetic villain.
Yeah, most bad people in real life were just born bad & other people just wouldn't admit it until they were adults because it's considered psychopathic to say that maybe a kid who tortures/kills animals & beats up other kids without provocation is a bad person. But then, they claim there were never any signs instead of just apologizing to the people who called it 20 years ago.
That's the thing;
I DON'T enjoy a Character being a Terrible Person just because THEY'RE A Terrible Person; That's Narratively unsatisfying; and Just makes me want to see the Character either Get Killed Off the Show without Coming back AS SOON AS POSSIBLE; want to see them Abstract(If Jax is a Human); or get Deleted By Caine[IF Jax really IS an NPC]
@@New3DSLuigi364 try watching some South Park, Eric Cartman has been doing what Jax is about to attempt to do for decades now
People when the character who obviously doesn’t give a fuck about others ends up not giving a fuck about others: 😡😡😡
Jax is morally a sigma male
If Jax going become an "eric cartman" character,
I want Jax say something Misogynist to the Camera like: "*something something* women"
Just to see these TADC/twitter crowd have a melt down
Ep 1 where he said "ladies first!wait why would I say that!" Before pushing gangle
@@Lightdragon773 naw it has to be something profound and just flat-out, like he pulls a bugs bunny and looks at the camera and says like "women amirite?" or some sort.
Just to see the toxicity flow through these delusional twitter nitwits
His demeanor kinda reminds me how Rex acted in the first season of Invincible and i dig it
Or maybe he is an anti Eric cart man character, maybe being a male feminist
Ngl i already headcanon him as being sexist, if you watch both episodes you can pick up on the fact that he's seemingly only this amount of chaotic hate and violent tendencies to the women of the circus, nit to say hes completely nice to men but he at least tolerates them more and is somewhat "nicer" to them too..
The thing is, people were *FURIOUS* at me for calling Pomni's actions in the first episode selfish, yet all we know about Jax is he's in the same situation Pomni is and he gets lambasted for being an asshole. This is why I steer clear of this fandom.
Yeah they both left Ragatha out of fear
Pomni messed up, but she can be a better person still. Look at how she tried to help Gummigoo.
Jax hasn't shown one redeeming feature, and it's only going to get worse.....
There are so many weird takes in the fandom that I don't really agree with. It's either all this or all that and it's really really irritating. I can sympathize with you. I also agree with you on your assessment about Pomni, it's ridiculous people got upset at you for it.
@@mattevans4377 He's been in the Circus longer. He's gone on so many dumb adventures and seen so many people he probably cared about go crazy and abstract that now he doesn't care and just wants to have fun. He emotionally distances himself from the other humans and makes himself unlikable so that when they go, or he goes, no one gets hurt.
Just cause Pomni did something selfish doesn't mean she's a bad person or unjustified. She left Ragatha with the full intent of NEVER coming back, leaving her to possibly die. Of course she had a good reason why, but it's still by definition, selfish. Too many people live by the idea that "you're either an innocent angel who has done nothing remotely wrong, or you're an irredeemable monster" 🙄
I believe Jax acts the way he does because he knows the world is fake and he is doing everything to break it out of spite. It might be the fact that he has been there so long that everything feels replaceable to him, since Caine does have this nasty habit of erasing his creations in favor of new stories as we see with Gummigoo. In his mind because the world is fake, the danger is fake and at worst his actions are annoying to the others. In a sense, his fatal flaw is ignoring the problem only to become a worse person who fails to see anything he does as wrong, because "no one can die" in a simulation. As for the hint, I imagine that he is masking his genuine feelings about the other guests, and the fact that abstraction feels as final as actual death. The only thing we don't know is why he would mask his emotions like that.
Wrong. He has no reason to act this way. He has no excuse. He's just a sociopath.
@@nevaehhamilton3493 I am not saying this excuses his actions. Criminology is about exploring why people do bad things to better understand their behavior. If the only point you can say is is to call them a term for a person who is incapable of feeling empathy because of neurological or psychological issues, I am going to assume you have nothing to add to this topic. Because sociopaths don't need feel the need to mask sadness when it will usually gets people to relate to them.
@@sharkjumpingwalrus6744 Well I'll just tell you that Jax will only get worse throughout the series and is irredeemable.
@@samuelisaacdelacruzaguiler2489 Then he will join the list of villain's I like. This is as spoiler free I can be.
There's Dementio, a manipulative nihilist who wants to erase all worlds to create perfect new worlds in their place.
There's Kefka, a man who committed several war crimes, with Genocides on several different scales.
There's Sephiroth, the man who tried to kill a world to fuel his god complex. And Genova, the planet eating parasite that helps him.
Then there's Bondrew, a man who will sacrifice anyone for his scientific ambitions, including children that he will lure into the lower layers of abyss. And these sacrifices are thematically the same as abstracting in the Digital Circus.
Irredeemable monsters are fun because you can look forward to their downfall, while being entertained by the conflicts the they create along the way.
@@sharkjumpingwalrus6744 hehe, Gooseworx simp Jax because she likes this type of characters, irredeemable Jerk
I haven’t really had an issue with Jax as a character myself. Yeah, the guy knows how to be a jerk, but it does make me very interested in noticing how out of the entire cast, he is effectively the one who suffers the least (at least as far as episode 2 goes; who knows if he will have a breakdown in a later episode).
But I think the reason why I didn’t connect the dots until recent was because of Nuxanor’s reaction and how if we look at the theme of the show (paraphrasing like hell here) as a means of “living for the moment,” Jax is the only one doing that while everyone else isn’t. Not to say Jax is in the right but when you look at the idea of “life has no meaning enjoy the moment you live in,” Jax is certainly doing that while not worrying about his actions and how he treats others. After all, why worry about a town getting eaten by a giant fudge monster with no morals if you can guess the world is going to be deleted after you leave that world anyway?
Again, not justifying Jax’s actions or anything, but it does seem like he is the only one in the case that doesn’t treat the circus as a “place to survive” but rather to do whatever you want with little to no consequences. Everyone has their way of coping with the situation of being trapped in the circus with no means of escape; he just chose to just accept it, enjoy the ride and try and take what pleasures he can (even if it is at the expense of others).
Speaking facts!
It is well possible that he will have a breakdown, I mean it seems like nothing in this world really matters, he uses it to cause chaos, but if he thinks about how everything doesn't really matter he could break down.
Jax is Tyler1 in a lobby of stupid Yasuo mains
I suspect that people's mistaken idea of Jax's character is because they were projecting Sans onto him because of his character design similarities. I know when I first saw Jax, the first thing I thought of was, "Oh, so that's the Sans of this show", I wouldn't be surprised if others thought the same
i myself was thinking "oh, he's the alastor of this show" but honestly alastor is just the sans of hazbin hotel anyway lol. people also have that same issue of thinking alastor is secretly a good person when he almost definitely isn't
@@jasperjazzie Alastor definitely isn't. I actually wrote my first fanfic about him back when only the pilot had dropped.
It was written out of spite cuz all I could find of him were ship-fics, so I wrote one with ✨Murder! ✨ Lol
I like Jax the way he is, and am looking forward to seeing whatever happens next! ^u^
you know honestly, I feel like the only reason Jax wasn’t as much of a dick, in episode one was because there was less opportunity to do so. Their adventure was chase after googly eyed shapes that steal shit…and most of that was interrupted by kaufmo’s abstraction and pomni’s introduction…. between the legitimate danger,kaufmo posed and the absolute whatever of a quest, I feel like “being as much of a dick as possible” was more of a “side priority” than anything. Or ya know I could be overthinking the douchebag rabbits motivation for not being as much of an insufferable piece of shit in the pilot
Agree , in episode 2 there isn't any real danger at all , so he goes full GTA player mode , but in the Pilot there was Kaufmo abstraction , and as seen , Jax does know is something really dangerous , so like You said , being a prick was a lesser priority than surviving and hence he wasn't that bad in the Pilot
Jax as a character makes sense, he's stuck in a world without consequences and made the choice to go wild. There probably is deeper exploration on the way, but the fans jumped to that without canon being established.
Its like people never played GTA or seen someone play it because damn imo Jax is a casual GTA player stuck in a kids game, he knows how games work and talked his rocket launcher into existence and tried to talk other things into existence but failed even trying to see the limits of what he could do, if ep 3 shows him being chaotic and becoming a ghost dispite probably going to the adventure to get rid of ghosts then he is just someone who is constantly testing the games limits
My problem with Jax is that he litterally steals the screen time of the other characters, both in the pilot and ep 2, I just want to see more of the others
@@AltKaxREAL that's good to know since these two were the two ones which got used the less
How exactly does he "steal" the screen time of other characters? The only real primary focus in the first two episodes is Pomni, everyone else is more a side character at the moment, Jax included, which makes sense since in a show like this there will almost certainly be episodes focusing on the other characters, honestly it's just way too early for such a claim to really be made, we only have two episodes and the primary focus of them wasn't even Jax himself, but another character entirely so we should just wait and see what happens next.
@@ryancarson6962 I think it feels that way because of merch. Besides Pomni, Jax is the only character who has his own t-shirt. And he was the only character to have a plush first besides Pomni, despite being a side character.
So he’s already made to be more prioritized than the other side characters. So while he doesn’t exactly steal screen time, he does steal priority.
Not really getting that impression, as it feels like Pomni is getting that treatment more for the obvious reason that she’s the main lead be default. As for Jax, even if that’s the case it’s obvious it’s due to the creator having a bias for characters like him. She mentioned on some online posts that she created him mostly because she likes that character archetype.
@@redballoon9007 tbf Jax's design is also pretty simple, so I can see why he was one of the first to get a olushie
1:31 "This video isn't about-"
(Google Pixel ad shows up)
I mean, the video certainly wasn't about phones.
Psychopathic characters are always some of my favorite in fiction because they drive conflict, which is excellent at adding to a narrative whether it's the main focus or just a simple moment. Jax, as unlikable as he is, is almost a necessary component to add the the cast because without him it would mostly just be simple characters harmoniously solving problems, and that's just inherently not that interesting
The people's perception of Jax reminds me of a discussion I had with one of my friends about people's perception of other people, something called the "Halo" effect, where people's perception of other people warps because they don't know them well enough, adding assumptions about the personality and skills that aren't truly reflective of the person they're viewing. For example, I'm a quiet man. People often perceived me as smart, good at math, etc. Neither of these are true. I also presume they think of me as a good person. All of this tracks back to me not giving them enough info to work with, so, in a way, people give people their own headcanons, often given to crushes you are too nervous to talk to or just generally quiet people. I know I had them.
The real thing though, is that I'm a dumb guy who knows how to say big words and when to sound smart, like anyone else, with anger issues and drawing and painting as a hobby.
I think this effect is on display with both stella and Jax, people just assumed things about them due to their limited screen time and the subject of their shenanigans being rather reasonable to be upset by or by their own troll behavior with their friends.
Accept that people are stupid and that you can't fix stupidity. Fans are stupid.
My head canon, Jax snapped at one point and he's now a maniac.
I think that Jax acts so horrible because he genuinely gets a thrill from doing so. After all, the world isn't real besides the main gang, so why not fuck around and cause chaos? Why not kill NPC? Why not make people hurt to make yourself feel full?
He represents people deciding to commit genocide in Dragon's Dogma simply because its fun to do so.
Despite jax taking so much of the scene in the a-plot of that episode, they really shouldve made him do more of the crazy shit to the npcs, really establish he doesn't care instead of him being mean to gangle to the whole episode. The croc gummies wouldve been perfect for that, they seem harmless so Jax being your average gmod player and fucking doming them wouldve been great
@@Sleepy_Cabbagetbh him walking around and kicking stuff over as they are monologuing sounds like a perfect characterization moment
Didn't people do that because of FPS issues?
I mean the NPC’s turned out to be real people, but he might not see it that way.
This is a perfect example of why you shouldnt engage with the fandom for a new series and/or before finishing to watch a series . Headcanons is hell of a drug for some fans.
I find casual fan worse as they just accept everything throw at them. Having that "Who cares, just buy product and get excited for next product."
@@bloodysimile4893 it’s two sides of the shitty coin
@@bloodysimile4893 at least the annoying casual fans have a life and touch grass , the annoying hardcore fans have too much free time to be annoying then casuals.
Especially to extreme some
@@bloodysimile4893 nah you won't find these here, they're watching TV sitcoms right now
Someone asked Gooseworx if Jax was more of an anti-hero. Regardless of the exact definition of that term, Gooseworx' response was,
"There's nothing heroic about him."
Using Death Note as an example.
Morally Grey: Light and L. They have clear motives and actions that regularly cross into evil, but they both have an argument to make. Anyone could easily see both of their positions as holding merit.
Sympathetic but not good: Misa. You get why she does the things she does but there is zero doubt that she is messed up. Also Rem, for similar reasons.
Entertaining but not good: Ryuk. It's very easy to like the guy and he's functionally a neutral party but he is the ultimate cause for all the conflicts and suffering in the narrative.
It's fine to like all of these characters but classifying their relative level of morality shouldn't be that difficult.
Light was not morally grey at all, he has this black and white of thinking that the world is corrupted.
@@nishchayjain1121 Except his entire reason for his belief is the very real issue of evil people who are able to escape punishment simply because of an insufficient legal system. When Kira begins to act, and starts to win, it is regularly brought up that his methods are reducing crime across the world.
The point of him being an insane sociopath with a god complex doesn't alter that his argument holds merit.
@@Zetact_ The fact that he dove headfirst into mass murdering god mode that it even surprised Ryuk is the most important part irrespective of why he did it. There's nothing Grey about Light at all as the other commenter says, it's made abundantly clear from day one that its all a self serving justification for him to murder especially considering his use of it to cover his secret.
@@Ziggaton Both in and out of universe there are people who agree with Kira's mentality. How can you say that ISN'T morally grey? It's vainglorious on Light's part for certain but that doesn't change the actions themselves.
It's shown in the narrative itself that Kira's actions SIGNIFICANTLY improve the world while he's active, to the point it even starts a damn cult of regular civilians who wish for Kira to return. You can personally hold the belief that Light is evil but the fact is that the narrative is one that's meant to make you think - it's meant to raise questions.
Light might be a narcissistic sociopath but you can't rightfully judge someone simply by their motivations, when their actions are what's important. If a wealthy person is able to fund a cure for cancer, but only does so out of a desire to make money and couldn't care less if people actually died from cancer, does that make this person's actions wrong, simply because his motive was ultimately just selfish greed? Of course not - while it is a sin to do good for the wrong reason but it doesn't negate the good that's being done.
"But killing people isn't good."
Killing criminals primarily, executioners have always been looked down upon for dirty work but as long as crime exists there will be arguments over the relative morality of the death penalty such that it is fundamentally not considered evil. To the eyes of the greater world, Kira is eventually considered an executioner. If it's strictly about legality, then why would it be wrong? Most of the world nations sooner or later decide to condone Kira.
Mind you I am making no moral judgements on who is right or wrong on the matter, I'm simply playing devil's advocate and calling out why Kira is absolutely a morally grey figure. It is like the death penalty taken to an extreme - the death penalty is not inherently immoral. Ironically saying that "Death Note is black and white, because killing is wrong" is itself using the same manner of black and white thinking that you're trying to condemn Kira for.
If Kira did not reduce crime rates, or the narrative showed that nobody actually had sympathies for Kira (from the very beginning we see even cops being of mixed feelings about Kira's actions) then you might have a point. But the narrative does not do this.
I don't think L is gray. He's good, straight up. The worst thing he did is using a person as a meat shield to find out if Kira is real and in Kanto, but that person was sentenced to death anyway so there was no saving him.
"Morally Grey".
Calling something morally grey just means they're evil and you think they're hot
More like morally gay haha
@@filipadsiekierka5350like u?
Unleashing a giant monster to go on a mass killing spree in order to satisfy your thirst for violence. What a morally grey thing to do!
Jax has potential to be a compelling foil for the rest of the cast. The crisis they're all going through is the same: being trapped seemingly forever in a simulation, where all there is to do is spend time in make believe scenarios that are AI generated. Many have succumbed to madness already, and they could ve next. Jax seems to cope with this by being the most awful person he can be for the mild amusement that comes from everyones horror at his actions that ultimately don't matter. While the other humans are trying to hold onto what little meaning they can find together, Jax may have rejected it all as meaningless as long as they are in this inescapable realm. As long as he is there, he'll make the others suffer for it.
I think he’s already a great foil for Ragatha. She wants to help others, whether that be helping Pomni to acclimate, or treating the NPCs with respect even though she knows they’re fake. Even though her situation is terrible she tries her best to get Pomni to open up despite being pushed away by her multiple times. Jax does the complete opposite and is a terror to everyone, NPC or not. I’m hoping as the series goes on we can see more of their motivations.
It's not even a Jax problem or a "Jax's fans" problem, it's a lack media literacy and the fact tv shows will eventually need to outright say if a character is good or bad because the audience can't figure it out themselves. The issue with indie pilots in particular is this and with how slow they are to produce content, fans will basically write the show in their head and be mad it didn't come out the way they wanted
Saying vivze hates women because she wrote an evil female character is... such a new gen take
In short, the fandom wanted a "Bad Boy" but the author gave us a Bad Guy
Goodamn the internet has a problem characters who are just evil. Either they want the character to be misunderstood or some bullshit, or want everyone to be hating them as much as Shou Tucker from FMA. Back on Hazbin's side, people will think you're a horrible person for liking Valentino for whatever reason, even his design. Forgetting that some of the most marketable villains in media have done as much if not worse like Darth Vader, Freddy Krueger, Joker, etc.
Yeah I was not surprised Jax ended up being the Murder Hobo of the group, the pilot didn't show having any depth other than the fact he's also trapped in the game, but the show didn't waste time to tell us by the 2nd episode "yeah guys Jax ain't a good person."
Fun fact I dunno if this is from the more earlier series but I think it is but isn't Freddy Krueger straight up a pedophile and he's a beloved horror icon.
It's only been two episodes. We've barely scratched the surface as it is.
Know what'd I think of our dear Tumblr Sexyman?
Dude copes. By asking for god every single second of his life:
"Give me one chance, ONE SHOT to go fuck it, we BALL"
It still makes Jax an regal jackass, but at least it'd make sense he's just as struggling as everybody else, befitting the show's theme of trying to cope in a knowingly hopeless possibility
Just got here. Bro did not fall off.
oh no, sexy bad boy is actually a bad boy??? how could gooseworx do this to me!
If I was trapped in a digital circus for eternity, I'd probably be a violent asshole about it, too.
"ah yes, my anti-magneto/jew concentration camp flashback technique, I have used this since the heian era"
- Charles Xavier, probably
"king of mutants"
I have a pet theory that Jax is an NPC that Caine lost track of and confused him with a user. He discovered his true nature, similar to Gummigoo, and he wants to take revenge in any way possible, including by stressing users into abstracting.
Doesn’t Jax having a canonical age and Goose stating he “deserved being in the circus the most” sorta debunk that though? Implying he had a life before being there and apparently still being a POS
@@itzrainy_outside4450 I've only watched the episodes, so I had no idea any of the characters had canonical ages.
However, the second point... Who belongs in a simulation MORE than a simulated being?
1. Jax has been given a cannon age and back story.
2. That theory has little to nothing to go based on. Why would he terrorize other NPCs? He doesn't JUST terrorize the humans.
3. Please think your theories through.
ding dong your opinion is wrong.
Im getting super sick of this theory 🙄
Funny thing about liking a Villian type character or similar character is that there was a Chikin Nuggit short thing in which a friend of one of the main crew Slushi asked her if liking a bad character is ok in which Slushi replies (and I'm kinda putting what I remember/paraphrasing here) in a sense "Do you condone the actions of said character or wish to copy what they do" in the most serious tone, the friend Milkshek says no and then Slushi going back to her usual upbeat self says "Then it's ok" this bit works here as well People shouldn't hate on others just because they like a certain character or the person behind the character you should be able to not only separate art from artist but you also need to not be so judgmental if said 'person behind the character' makes a mistake like Mike Pullock for example I dont know the deets but he made one mistake and then sensitive fans are up in arms as to that i have to say: NEWS FLASH! We are all human we all make mistakes, we are not perfect nor can we ever be perfect and just because someone is famous or in a position of authority doesn't mean they dont make their own mistakes....Look at Jason David Frank THE Power Ranger on the outside he seemed to be doing well but behind closed doors he was dealing with major issues and unfortunately he also made mistakes and made the unfortunate decision to take his own life (apparently. Not to take anything away from that). All I'm saying is people who like Jax, others with similar Personalities or even Villains should enjoy being able to like a fictional character without having someone else be like "Oh you like this character? Does that mean you also enjoy the hurt they cause?" Fiction despite sometimes having stories that mesh with fans on a deeper level is also a form of entertainment, meant to draw us in with what is being shown on screen or in the pages of a book it's an experience that we go through and makes us happy when we see our favorite character on screen. Ok there goes my TED Talk on this cant wait to see the next vid you make Manga Kamen
I was thinking of that, too! :D Fellow Chikn Nuggit fan!
@@catbatrat1760 Lol great minds think alike
The reason I think Jax works (with how much we've seen him as of episode 2) is that he kind of embodies to me those UA-cam channels that just mess with kids in Minecraft and what not. If The Amazing Digital Circus was a video game that the crew was just playing, Jax would be the friend who constantly messes with everyone else because it's funny (a great example is Phisnom's highlights of Lethal Company, actually yeah that's a perfect example here)
A character like that with the twist being he's actually in the video game or whatever TADC is, is perfect.
Like Team Avolition?
@@LordTyph what's team Avolition from? It sounds familiar
So Lyle Rath?
Your description made me recall the time Vanossgaming blew up most of his group's server through an elaborate network of Redstone, TNT, and minecarts.
@@jordanhunter3375 you're the third person who's given me an example I have no context for, let alone know anything about. I think that's awesome. Sounds like the same idea
People latched onto a version of Jax that they made because it took so long between episodes and that’s why people are pissed also can you talk about monkey wrench please it needs more love
"because it took so long"
lol wow people really have the attention span of goldfish on drugs now days
@@MouseGoatThey hyperfixated on a show with only one eposide for seven months stright. If anything their attention span being too long is the real problem.
THIS.
Because people don't get new content for a long time, they often make the content themselves. Which is fine, but just keep in mind that your headcanon will most likely be untrue. A lot of people thought he had a justifyable reason for his bullying (which was not shown in the show at all do no idea where hey got that from) and now they're upset Because that's not what's happening :/
I think people just got the wrong impression of him in the first episode, somehow the first episode he appeared "lighter" to some people, but when he finaly goes on an adventure and he gets to interact with NPCs, he goes wild
Yup, I agree. After rewatching the first episode, it's perfectly obvious that he was a complete dick. Most likely, the only reason people would have gotten the wrong impression of him would be because, while he was an asshole, he was so casual about it. His light attitude probably confused some people into thinking "he's actually not that bad" without actually looking at him properly.
Writer here.
People seem to forget that Jax is an antagonist. He’s not a villain, but someone that goes against the protagonists. Caine is an antagonist as well, but is also pretty friendly with the troupe (at the moment; though, that could change). Jax himself doesn’t go out of his way to harm everyone that isn’t an NPC, no matter who’s in the crossfire. He thrives in the insanity and what he’s allowed to do, but he hasn’t been shown to be evil. Jax is just doing his own thing. If he intentionally starts seeking to harm everyone at any chance he gets or has a sinister goal in mind, that will turn him from an antagonist to a villain.
Examples of antagonists are Axel from Kingdom Hearts, Aventurine from Honkai Star Rail, and Meta Knight from Kirby. You fight all three of them, but they each aren’t inherently bad. You even work with them on occasion too.
Examples of villains are Ganondorf from Legend of Zelda, Maruki from Persona, and Jenova from Final Fantasy. They all have an ultimate goal that they’ll stop at nothing to accomplish, even if it means stomping out opposition. They’re antagonists that go up a level even if the goal seems like it’s a good thing (Maruki wanting everyone in the world to be happy). They pretty much are the plotting masterminds who seek to take down the protagonists instead of get in their way.
Unless Jax starts doing just that and begins to plan to overthrow Caine to be the one in charge of the Circus, then he’s an antagonist. But that’s not going to happen… Right?
It must've hilarious it must've been for you and the rest of the writers when the second episode released and *those* Jax fans were freaking out. I've always loved his GTA player attitude, and can't wait to see more insanity from him.
@redbirdpfpn Oh, I’m not a writer FOR Digital Circus (wish I was), but I’m a writer in general. But you’d better believe that it was hilarious to suddenly see him go from a Tumblr sexyman to having a truckload of teenagers be upset that he’s an *actual* asshole. Probably the kind of one that was stuck working 9 to 5 at a McDonald’s and living in a shitty apartment. Or the opposite and being a textbook psychopath CEO that’s finally able to let loose.
The whole moral grey thing to me is becoming a bit too trendy to me.
I don’t think “Morally gray” applies because he’s not really in the moral slide dial.
He’s a bully.
Often, in kids media especially, you’ll have your protagonists who are basically good people with their own flaws, and they are the good guys. Usually one or two children and a mentor figure.
There will be a pure evil villain like Voldemort or palpitene, then you get a more tragic/ morally gray villain like Snape or Darth Vader.
Then you have the bully-
Like Draco or Dudley.
They’re not a villain because they’re not big enough of a threat, and besides, they’re just a kid most of the time.
But they’re not complicated enough to be morally gray and we don’t ever see them do anything other than bully, (Often focusing on a hapless “younger kid” character who the main hero can stick up for,)
They are usually on the good guys team in a big fight, (Or simply not there) but they won’t do anything particularly heroic or selfless.
They tend to cause smaller scale conflict among the characters and all in all the moral scale of the story just doesn’t really apply to them.
They usually get a “Stern talking to” but they don’t typically learn their lesson, and I think that’s where Jax is-
He’s part of the main crew but he’s not a good person. He does some pretty horrible stuff, but because of the tone armor around the fact that he’s a comedy character means we probably aren’t going to see the consequences of those actions and thus he won’t really be written as a villain.
I think people are definitely looking for a villain and Jax is the closest thing.
I mean, Cain seems nice. He doesn’t really understand the consequences of his actions but he seems very innocent and any harm he causes seems unintentional.
Ragatha is so sweet and has the vibe about her like she just wants someone to take care of. Maybe in her last life she was a mom, or she really wanted to be one.
Pomni is the main character, and she seems to have good morals, even if she’s a bit to frightened to back them up.
Everyone else is basically the “Younger kid” a passive character to be bullied by the mean character and stood for by Ragatha.
(Pomni is too busy freaking out and I don’t think Cain even notices or understands bullying,)
Then there is gumigoo, who is spite of dying might come back since Cain re uses npc’s and Ragatha’s comment looks like foreshadowing.
I have to agree he’s pretty great. More human than some of the actually human characters. If he got to live at the digital circus he’d probably stand up to bullying.
Sorry for the long rant on this silly cartoon about people being essicied into a world where everyone looks like a toy and the ringmaster looks like teeth with eyes.😅
It just seems like people get confused about Jax even though he’s a pretty classic bully character. He’s just a little more clever and witty than the usual, probably because he’s an adult.
Disney's fault
@@tell-me-a-story- the problem is more that the fandom expected Jax to be morally gray when there wasn't any hint at it at all
@@angel_of_rust
He never acts conflicted, he’s just mean, lol
@@tell-me-a-story- yeah he isn't conflicted but the fandom decided to think so otherwise
I am surprised that Kamen didn't even touch on what fiction-kin is. That's an interesting rabbit hole.
Pun intended?
Who is kinning Jax omg 😭
@@HaleyZLMFT Edgy teens who are chronically online.
Dang
Is that when you identify as an imaginary character or something?
(Since I think an “Otherkin” person is someone who is trying to identify as some kind of living creature that is not human, such as an animal or an angel/demon?)
I think some people really need to touch grass.
There is no room for meaningful character study if all your characters are good people who only do good things. If you have a problem with a character being a bad person, read a fucking book. Like, any actual piece of literature.
You cooked
Media literacy is dead, and moral guardians killed it.
the people who believe everyone is nice and friendly would have a shock going outside.
that grandma on the bus will whack you for taking her seat
this is so real, or when "evil characters" are portrayed as, well, silly-- a lot of fans and even writers are too scared to give their antagonists actual unlikeable flaws since they are too busy dreaming about creating a big fanbase for the characters. yes, this is targeted at hazbin hotel, and yes, i'm still pissed about poorly they wrote alastor.
@@redbirdpfpn Alastor is still nowhere near as poorly written as Adam. You can tell that Viv’s entire thought process when creating him was: “screw subtlety and depth, I’m going to dump every manosphere stereotype I can think of into this one character.”
I think anyone can like or hate Jax's character to be honest. While I personally like the character, I don't agree or support his assholery actions and can understand why some people might be annoyed by them. Since there is only two episodes, I don't think we should jump on what we think is end game or not until we get more content. We can have some headcanons and theories but let's remind ourselves that this *may or may not happen.*
For the info we have right now besides the screentime he gets, it has already been confirmed that he will worsen, cause something unforgivable later on, and does have reasons for his behavior. I know some people said Gooseworx confirmed he was "irredeemable" but I think she said she thought of "irredeemable characters" WHILE writing Jax, so the topic of self-reflection and redemption is still up for debate.
Jax strikes me as the kind of character designed to be someone you love to hate, and I feel like Digital Circus pulls it off really well. It's just that media literacy is, as you said, dying, and people based their opinions of him solely on a limited appearance in the pilot that to them left enough room for them to feel sure that he secretly has a heart of gold. Bro does not. He could have a chance for positive character development, but I don't see any gold in there.
I don't remember if it was stated how long he's been in the Digital Circus, but it feels to me like he has taken his existence there as the chance to be as mean as he wants and never suffer consequences. Any NPCs he hurts or outright orchestrates the deaths of are wiped away as soon as Caine is finished with them (at least as far as we know. They might be brought back one day and THEN Jax will possibly have to face the consequences of his actions), and the other 'players' are not the types of people who will take much of a stand against him, and he takes full advantage of that. Jax is an opportunistic bully, and episode two is currently our biggest showcase of that. People claiming that Gooseworx and co changed the scripts to make him worse after the pilot have all metaphorically counted their chickens before they hatched.
Well the difference between the cartman kind of character and the hateable kind of character is charisma and personality
While ep 1 jax was more silly and also did goofy things, also showed a more chill and easy goin personality, its understandable you get that idea
Ep 2 jax is straight evil and not caring for free and without thay charisma, which makes him just dislikeable
Lets put this way, ep 1 jax saw the gloinks glitcjing and looked everywhere nervously of kaufmo appearing
Ep 2 jax would probably find it funny and actively lure kaufmo into the gloinks
He’s only more mean and aggressive because he’s more involved.
Calling Jax downright evil seems a bit much.
His personality is just chaotic, probably nihilistic from being trapped in this digital world for so long.
If you took a group of people and stuck them in a place where nothing's real and consequences are far and few, you'd have at least one person with this type of personality/mentality trait.
I think he’s just the average bully character. Mean and annoying more than anything else.
Jax allowed the Fudge to go on a killing spree for his own amusement. How is that not evil? Is it because he did it with NPCs and not players? Because the NPCs still seem sentient.
Gooseworx is not responsible for the version of Jax people create in their heads.
Jax is NOT a funny bunny.
Indeed he is a funny rabbit :) with a gun!
"Mother says he's a bad influence."
Tbh If I was trapped in a computer functional immortal until I eventually go crazy I would probably end up acting like him too, he was probably a teenager sucked into that mess and never got the chance to grow up, now he is bitter and does what he finds funny, nothing else matters, literally, nothing they do matters, Jax just realized this early on it seems, which is why he has violent tendencies, he probably played shooter games before, and knows the NPCs aren’t real people so he doesn’t care what happens to him, and like it’s hinted at by ragitha, Cain seems to have a reputation of reusing assets, so it’s not like he is actually doing anything wrong, it’s the same as you killing people in fallout new Vegas, yeah they are gone but in the next game you can be as nice as you want but that won’t change anything about the game.
Gooseworx confirm Jax age is 22 so yeh he just young adult with teenage phase
I see this type of thing in the MHA and rwby fandoms way too damn much with Endeavor, Bakugou, and Adam. Ironically, a lot of the same people who hate Endeavor and Bakugou will also unironically try to defend the villains and argue that they're 100% in the right and justified in their mass murder and terrorism. Hell, I even see it with Bakugou fans trying to defend the shit he did. Another annoying symptom of this whole "projecting/self-inserting into characters" crap. If it's a character they hate and you like, you're a scumbag, but if they like the character, they'll pull every mental gymnastic possible to justify their actions. Light Yagami probably being the ultimate example.
Any other warriors fans?
(Or at least someone who also adored this kitty war cult as a child?)
You know how some kids back in the day could relate to having an unrequited crush, so they decided to agree with everything Ash-fur did?
The same people would hate on SquirrelFlight
(which make so sense because if you like Ashfur so much and distane Swuirrel why do you want them to be together? )
Anyway they were basically mad that she didn’t pretend to be In loved with Ashfur just because he had feeling for her?
Poor kitten had a bunch of older men creeping on her.
She probably should have said no to all of them but she still had to say no to most of them. 😝
Someone is always going to be mad.
I think the whole reason they made Ashfur the main villain in the newer books was because of this.
They wanted to confirm that nothing Ashfur did was okay by showing that he’s an out-right villain.
Funny how he went from the droopy corner of a love triangle to vengeful maniac to dead vengeful maniac much later.
And he was basically just.. Fernpaw’s brother in the first arch. 😝
Personally I think shipping wars about cats is peak cringe.
I loved the second seres but I remember my favorite part being when SquirrelPaw and Leafpaw were still apprentices.
Regardless, I do like the idea of BrambleClaw being with Squirrelflight, but I would change some things up to make it less weird.
First have him be younger. This wouldn’t be too hard, I’d just have Sky-clan’s destiny take place immediately after the last first arch book, and have Sandstorm already pregnant when they leave, and the kittens can come earlier in the story. They’d be babies, so they wouldn’t change much.
Then Brambleclaw would be a young apprentice when she was born and not a grown warrior, and they’d have about the same age gap as long-tail and fire-paw. (Maybe they were even apprentices at the same time for a month or two,)
(I would also make it so Crowpaw’s crush of FeatherTail was one-sided so she doesn’t seem weird, but she still cares about him as a freind, and I would just delete Storm-fur’s crush on Swuirrelpaw, it wouldn’t change much anyway,)
And I’d also make him nicer to her. That shouldn’t be hard, just keep him as he is in the first arch,
(Bold and curious, a little grumpier than fire-paw was but much less grumpy than Cloud-paw. Natural born leader with a concerning interest in his roots, and above all, a powerful passion for proving himself to his clan, to an insecure and unhealthy level.)
And turn the arguments where he is trying to control squirrelflight into friendly banter instead.
I’d keep the ashfur thing because he’s important to the plot, and just like in the real books Squirrelflight likes him because he’s gentle and accommodating, but decides he’d not right for her, and he gets all butt-hurt about it.
The fact that he’s almost firestar’s age won’t be a problem because for one she doesn’t choose him anyway, and for two he doesn’t seem interested until she’s had her warrior name for a month or two.
And of course the plot goes on as regular.
White wing would be younger that the sisters with this new kitten arrangement, but that makes sense to me. She always felt like a younger apprentice.
Even if BrambleClaw is no longer mean, he can still be upset about the three thing because he was being lied to for like, a yeah. Which is a lot for a cat.
Not knocking the original, just how I’d do it.
Oh dang it sorry for the wall.
I was only supposed to say people do the projection thing with Ashfur!
Most of you probably don’t even know what I’m talking about.
@@tell-me-a-story- wat?
"Morally grey" doesn't apply to either Jax or Caine. A character who is morally grey does bad things for a good cause. A version of Batman who kills the Joker to stop him from killing more people is morally grey. But Jax doesn't have any good reasons to back up his bad actions. He simply enjoys violence, destruction, and bossing people. And Caine lacks the sense of morality that humans have altogether. He doesn't have any conception of what's good or evil, so he technically can't be held responsible for his actions.
I personally think Jax is morally grey, but in the sense that there are *many different shades of grey.* He’s not “pure evil” or whatever, but I don’t think he’s getting a redemption arc either. I feel like his actions are gonna catch up to him by the end of the series, and it’s gonna get VERY Ugly.
I think more than a gray character, he’s a bully character.
Bullies tend to exist outside of the
“Good guy-morally gray anti hero/villain-pure evil villain”
Slide-dial.
They’re not good guys, but they’re too petty and small-scale to be villains, but they’re not morally gray because they don’t have any kind of conflicting actions.
They don’t do good sometimes and evil sometimes, or the right thing for the wrong reason, or the wrong thing for the right reason,
They just do things that are..mean.
Selfish annoying things that aren’t straight up evil but uncalled for and irritating.
They sort of exist outside the alignment chart.
Take Dudley from Harry Potter.
You could take Draco as well, but some of you millennials still haven’t gotten over your childhood crush on the little boy who played him in the movie, (Frighteningly enough,)
And besides that he does get a little more involved in the main plot, which puts him closer to being on the alignment chart.
But how about Dudley?
He’s not a good guy. He never saves the day or even does anything nice. He’s selfish and nasty pretty much all the time.
He’s not a villain.
It’s not like he’s a pure evil Voldemort.
First off he’s just a kid, when all is said and don, but second, he doesn’t cause any of the main conflict. He’s not trying to take over the world. All he really wants is to eat and lay around, honestly. Nothing he does can be called evil.
Besides he was kind of raised be be like he
He’d annoying more than evil.
He’s not morally gray, though. He doesn’t really do anything sympathetic in the story, and he doesn’t do the right thing for the wrong reason or the wrong thing for the right reason.
He just does annoying things for annoying reasons.
The morality of the plot that puts Harry and Co. on one side of the spectrum, Voldemort on the other, and Snape somewhere in the middle, (Where exactly he sits is different depending on wether you’re looking at the books or the movies,)
Just goes right past Dudley.
He’s not exactly amoral, because he’s not an animal. He knows better than to do what he does.
But he fits into a little box of character types that includes Bullies, comic relief, and helpless bystanders. They have good or bad intentions, but they don’t really go into the “Good” “Evil” or “Morally gray” boxes, because they have a certain tone around them that makes their actions not very important.
Comic relief villain sidekicks can be given redemption arcs very easily, for example, because even though they’d be accomplices to murder and genocide in real life, they’re function in the story is to make you laugh, so you don’t even think there’s that much to redeem. In fact, they don’t even feel bad about what they did a lot of the time. They just join the good guys and start being funny but on their side, and the good guys don’t really seem that upset with them, even if they helped kill their wise mentor figure.
Likewise, bullies don’t really count as good or evil or gray.
(Unless the movie takes place in high school or some other modern setting where the bully is the main antagonist, then they’ll typically be a “Pure evil” character, who also behaves very little like an actual adolescent bully.)
The Bully is usually just there. They provide smaller scale conflict for the main character, and make them relatable because everyone has been picked on at one point.
They tend to be the character who speaks their mind and says things that wouldn’t be consistent with the main heroes.
Sometimes the bully is a reluctant member of the main group who just does something selfish or petty occasionally.
Jax doesn’t exactly fit neatly into the “Bully” mold, but I do think he more than being “Evil” “Good” or “Gray”
He’s in his own box that reads ,
“Irritating little turd.”
I don’t think digital circus as any evil characters.
You have the main character Pomni, she’s obviously a good guy.
You have Ragatha who’s so darn sweet and needs A hug, you have Gummygoo, who is loyal to his group even after he finds out it’s not real and was just a fun character, you have Cain who is mostly just Clueless and wacky, then you have Kinger and the gadget character and the tragedy mask character who are kind of just bystanders.
The conflict comes from the fact that she’s trapped and that’s scary.
Basically in a cheerful kid friendly back rooms.
But honestly that ball creature is the real villain 😝
I am slightly disappointed about Jax being actually toxic in episode 2, but that’s mostly because Jax being a slapstick menace in episode 1 was hilarious and I think episode 2 wasn’t nearly as funny as a result. Bubble’s “no thanks, I’m trying to quit” was the only moment that made me laugh.
I recently watched digital circus for the first time back to back, and I was confused as to why people got super mad at the second episode-
He acts exactly the same.
He didn’t change halfway through, he was consistent the entire time.
I think people got their own idea of him in between episodes.
He might have had more opportunity in the second episode but literally nothing changed.
He’s always been basically a bored bully.
There's nothing quite as frustrating and simultaniously pathetic, on a hilarious level, like seeing people be delusional about what a character is supposed to be, only for that perception to shatter and for them to cry like little babies about them "ruining the character" or something.
I would cringe at it, but it's a little funny. I would laugh at it, but it's just too grounded in reality.
Ultimately those people are not worth the attention they get no matter how frustrating or hilarious their outbursts might seem, they are just a waste of time.
My main gripe is you can kinda see jax's asshole behaviour kinda takes a turn in the second episode, I believe this is could've been goose works attempt at a hard turn. Like she was testing the waters at first and decided to do a quick turn into jax being a full on dickhead
@@Sleepy_CabbageI agree it's a hard change in tone, sort of. But his actions are consistent with his previous characterization.
Yes he treats everyone like crap and is willing to genocide NPCs for his own enjoyment, but that's not too far off from his actions or implied morality from the first episode. As a person he's bad in episode 1 and worse in episode 2.
Not to mention again that these episodes were all written before the pilot was released meaning if a shift feels drastic it's more likely that you just didn't pick up on the hints that were left for it, changes like testing audience reception are rarely a concern for most writers, because it slows down progress.
I didn't think it was out of character or drastically different on a first watch, maybe that's just a me thing though .
@@ProfessorNilo The closest comparison to Jax I think I could make is Bugs Bunny, usually the person deserves the type of tomfoolery from bugs cause their bothering him or being malicious themselves, so bugs bunny's crude tricks come off as light hearted and amusing cause they had it coming to him, I think a lot of people where hoping for that same kinda flow with jax, but ep2 really leaves a sour taste for them cause gangle who jax is interacting with the most never really deserves it, and sorta gets to a point where's it mildly uncomfortable. The only reason this is a turning point is its jaxs using his words rather then physical comedy, the digital world seems to hardly have any consequences for slap stick again like looney tunes) and jax takes advantage of this constantly cause it never really hurts anyone, thus its not taken seriously by him or the audience, so the moment Jax really started to dig into gangle or be verbal in his aggression is when things went from funny to slightly cruel, imagine if bugs was saying profanitys to get at at porky pig rather then a silly gag
@@Sleepy_Cabbage I don't really see your point. Are you saying that pain doesn't really exist so physically abusing others is better? Because that makes little sense, because while the abuse in the first episode may not hurt physically, getting physically abused also leaves mental scars.
So Jax using Zooble's body parts for himself, throwing things at Kinger or pushing Gangle for no reason, still leaves a mental impression. It's not better and besides, it's not like Jax didn't mentally abuse others, like with Kinger and Ragatha putting one down and playing with the fears of the other.
It's all unnecessary abuse physically or mentally doesn't matter, because both can hurt them in the long run. You can't possibly think that Jax's actions in episode 1 were justified at the time, it's not like anyone was antagonizing him first, so even if others made the Bugs Bunny connection, he was still an asshole unprovoked.
@@ProfessorNilo it's cause noting really establishes that physical trauma seem to even matter, it's almost in the same context of a looney tunes bit, pomni literally gets her height stretched out of her, kinger is bowled down a slide, zooble doesn't even seem like they can be harmed by normal means and I don't even think ragatha can register pain at all. Physical trauma simply isn't registered the same it would in reality, and the only time we see genuine pain is when their harmed by someone who is abstracted, so it makes sense why jax (and ragatha primarily with herself) have zero qualms slapsticking there way out of problems or just to pass the time. If the characters don't feel genuine pain, why would the audience care about the physical comedy being dangerous! emotional damage however is another story, it's well established the characters are still of course feeling and still take stuff like insults personally or react to things like anyone else would just with a bit of cartoony flair, so is it a wonder when Jax decides to use verbal aggression over slapstick which has been shown to not do anything, it leaves a bit of a sour impression for some people
I said this to a friend today after we talked about Jax:
*Jax is the kind of GTA player that is playing the game with the one and only goal of finding out how many war crimes he can commit in the least amount of time.*
How are people saying Jax is morally gray? Moral grayness requires that there be good intentions behind ones actions, or making hard choices for the greater good. Jax is just being a jerk for the entertainment. Even if it gets revealed that he has a troubled backstory, that just makes how the other characters deal with his antics morally gray, not his actions themselves.
jax really trims the line of ambiguity at times, him shoving kinger and gangle into the pit in episode one is a good example, if goosework wanted to make it more clear he was a flat out ass then they shouldn't have made him look back to see if the abstracted monster was there, since it combined with the rest of the shot it could be seen as him trying to lead those two to safety, where if they wanted jax to be seen more as an actual ass he shouldn't have reacted at all to the potential of danger being near and immediately doinked the two showing he could care less
Would be kind of interesting if it turned out he just flat-out doesn't believe anyone else in the game is real and at some point has to reckon with the revelation that these people really are sentient. That could go so many different ways depending on who he was in real life, how his time in the circus has affected his psyche as well as on what exactly "deserving" to be stuck in the circus means. He could figure, since it's just a game without consequences and they're all trapped there possibly forever, that this is functionally no different than them being NPCs and continue to treat the other characters badly. He could react with denial, escalating his behavior so he never has to sit with the guilt of knowing that the people he's hurt _are_ actual people. He could be horrified and undergo a status quo-changing personality shift/break. He could abstract.
Like, if I woke up one day in a weird, possibly magical/cursed video game, I'd be suspicious of the reallness of _everything._ Oh, you're human too? Right, yeah, sure you are, buddy. This totally isn't some sick, high-tech mental torture chamber or lotus eater-style trap, and you're totally just like me and _not_ some lifeless good cop designed to lead me in circles/lull me into complacency/cruelly betray me.
I could also see myself intentionally treating the other residents differently than I'd treat real people to protect that fragile line between reality and what I believe to be fiction, allowing me to have some semblance of desperately-needed social interaction without allowing myself to be sucked into the dangerous delusion that *anything* here is real. And having these ai "humans" cycle out by occasionally "dying" and being replaced by shiny new -bots- people would seem like such an insulting, cruel power play on the part of whoever's controlling the game. What a mockery of the reality and people I can't remember or return to. What derision of my intelligence that you think I'd fall for your crappy emotional manipulation. What a sinister reminder that nothing here is stable, and I'm entirely at your mercy, and what a grim confirmation that I was right to refuse the "friendship" of bundles of mindless binary that will be killed off eventually anyway.
This is such an interesting theory to me because it doesn't have to contradict any of the meta information we've recieved about this character; he could still do downright unforgivable things to the other circus members, he could still be a jerk in real life, he could even still continue to degrade after realising that everyone else is real too. He could also choose to change for the better, and have to deal with the backlog of damage he caused.
How anybody could think Vannamelon is a bad person just because she loves Jax is beyond me.
Jax's actions in the candy world don't make him evil. As far as he's concerned. The NPCs aren't real people.
If he's evil for his actions there. Literally anyone who's played video games is evil
I agree with with your statement, killing NPC's is not exactly evil. Can it be considered evil by the standards of very human like AI, maybe but it's still not exactly like real people die or anything.
That being said he's not considered evil for only that. Through the entire episode he also is just the worst when it comes to how he treats the other human characters. Though that's not new to this episode and was already established in the pilot.
So regardless of what others say I think he's been consistent overall, he just got a new character trait which is to have fun at the expense of non player characters.
It's more like pulling a genocide in Undertale than doing something morally wrong, but with extra steps. I imagine he does stuff like this because he see's the stories as pointless since the stories keep getting replaced and erased on Caines whims as we see with Gummigoo, so he tries to derail them as much as he can just to spit Caine.
@@sharkjumpingwalrus6744 on top of that. Even the cast is mostly indestructible. In a world like that it's easy to get desensitized to violence. For example his lack of reaction to the truck falling.
Basically he IS an ass. But he's an ass in a world with almost no consequences and he knows his actions can't mortally wound people.
@@1slayer959 It would fit with the topic of the funeral getting him to lower his guard for a moment before he walked off in a sour mood. Someone's actually gone and it, at minimum, bothers him.
@@LordTyph yeah exactly. Jax has essentially embraced the escapism of the circus to, well escape the gravity of their situation.
This has the side effect of making him cruel.
But there are brief moments to show that he on some level does value the human characters over others. Like when he shoved gengal and kinger in the gloink hole.
On the surface, it seems like he's just being a dick. But when taken in context. The abstracted kofmo was on that floor.
Jax got them out of danger, without them knowing of the danger at that.
And then there's the scene of him before the funeral like ya said.
Jax can't escape true death. Try as he might. So when the topic of someone he knows and at the very least recognized as a real person, is truly gone. It on some level upsets him.
Gooseworx: jax is unambiguously horrible
Amazing Digital Circus episode 1 and 2: Jax is unambiguously horrible
twitter: and i took that personally
Gooseworx herself said Jax is the one character who deserves to be trapped in the Circus. Fans just got mad when she reinforced this by not portraying him as the uwu sadboi jerk with a heart of gold they fetishized him as.
The way I see it his attitude is more or less like a save face. I mean think about it, everyone is dealing their own way to cope in the DC. Ragatha staying positive, Gangle having a comedy mask to cover her real emotions, same could be said to Jax.
Does that mean he is a good guy...no a million times no, but since it's all not real, Jax would rather go lose and not being concerned of the consequences.
It really surprises me how people looked at Jax & think he's a nice guy especially after the pilot but as for me, I really do dig Jax myself, he's basically Kokichi from Danganronpa just more exaggerated and it really makes me like him even more plus it makes great Drama for what can go on in the Digital Circus as they are basically in a death game, so I look forward to see him causing schemes to spice up for what can go on in later episodes
Honestly, this problem with people seeking reasons for denouncing a character and anyone who likes the character is a really annoying issue I keep seeing more and more.
And you're right. Just because you like a character that's bad or evil doesn't mean you are evil or bad or agree with them. It feels like people's capacity for critical thinking is dying rapidly the more we keep existing.
Idk, me personally I don't like him. I don't know what it is, but I just don't like him.
If others like him, cool. He's just not my type.
I'm upset because I have a book that's been in progress for several years with a character that is very identical with his conduct and interactions. He casually causes harm to others for fun in a troll like manner and is absolutely not afraid to say the quiet parts out loud or break the fourth wall while criticizing the narrative, villain motives, and character strategies. He is a deuteragonist who was isekaid into the main character's narrative and constantly makes references that people in universe wouldn't understand but viewers absolutely would. It's upsetting because if I were to now release this, I would probably get some people like, "BrO yOu JuSt CoPiEd Jax. YoU'rE sO uNcReAtIvE. LeArN tO wRiTe OrIgInAl ChArAcTeRs."
I mean, at some point there will be no more "original ideas" left because all possible combinations have been made. Also "geniusses think alike". Just because there are similarities doesnt mean you copied someone
Sounds interesting! What will the book be called?
I don’t think anybody will say that. Especially since it’s in a completely different medium. Characters that are just assholes to be assholes have existed for a long time. You shouldn’t change or stress over your work because you think people will get mad over it. Even then your character sounds fairly different from what I’ve seen of Jax.
@@levitheghost I've been tossing around a few titles. Currently I'm at "The Impact Borne." It's a double reference to how the characters have to bear the heavy impact of the world upon them, but the world must also bear the heavy impact of the characters upon the world. Using "borne" for bearing is also a reference to being born because the main character was reincarnated and struggles with trauma and guilt from a previous life that no one can see or understand because for all they know, he never went through anything at all and is just acting out and therefore garners no sympathy from others aside from a couple people later on when people begin to connect the pieces that he was a very controversial historical figure of whom people have various opinions on ranging from sheer admiration to sheer disdain. The main character is incredibly anxiety-prone and the "impact" starts getting to him as his initially calm and kind character continuously degenerates into insanity as more memories flood his mind while simultaneously the world around him begins to f... itself and the main character. "Borne Impact" sounds cool as well, but I don't want it to be confused for a Jason Bourne story.
The deuteragonist is the isekaid troll character who is somewhat sadistic and apathetic even though he genuinely cares but doesn't like to admit it. He tags along with the main character and constantly criticizes him for being "too merciful" and "mentally soft." He eventually gains more respect for the main character as the story progresses and they become best friends. The deuteragonist is the kind of guy who uses a power drill to drill out a pedo_____'s elbows, kneecaps, hands, and feet with a power drill and throw him into a swimming pool and watch him struggle to try to get out of only 6 feet of water just because he thinks the suffering of terrible people is ironically hilarious, yet deserved. Meanwhile, the main character is horrified at the repeated sadistic actions of his friend against their enemies but doesn't object because of his meekness. The deuteragonist is cocky because no one can harm him as he has absolute control over any and all technology, rendering weapons useless against him. Guns literally disassemble themselves in the hands of his enemies, bullets stop mid air around him, and he can still use all the technology he wants with extreme precision. He taunts all of the gun-wielding criminals by thanking them for providing him with more weapons. The deuteragonist is a relatively static character who is the only one who seems to be unaffected by the chaos the world inflicts upon them and the chaos they inflict upon the world. At one point, he literally tells the main character to "Get some b....es on your d... and stop moping. These bad guys aren't gonna kill themselves, although they'll probably want to after we've started playing with them for a bit." The only thing that poses any threat to him are direct magic attacks and humorously, nature, which always seems to f... with him only to the point of aggravating inconvenience, usually in the form of random plants and animals. Also, the deuteragonist is the only one in the cast who swears like a sailor.
"I just want to eat my f...ing lunch without a d... magic vine on my a.. every two d... seconds."
It's funny because the cast has to go into the forest frequently, and he's always so pissed because nature is always messing with him.
"F... these trees, f... these vines, and f... this forest because I'm about to burn this f...ing place to the ground. I don't give a f... how sacred it is. It's always in my d... way!"
this whole jax discourse is so funny to me because from the pilot on it was clear to me that he really is not a good person and just does what he wants that’s also why I wasn’t surprised in the slightest of his actions in episode two
The thing that weirded me out about the episode was purely Jax being a bit of a baby? Like I thought he just likes to mess with people, but his entire facade of confidence is *entirely* dependant on his ability to cause chaos. When he cant he throws a fit.
Like ive already made up my mind about NPCs, they arent real, be as cruel as you want to them. I would at least. I dont care what kind of sentience they can mimic, they will never be real. So that wasnt something I had an issue with, I thought it was fun even. But it was the way he got so freaking salty after his plan didnt work.
Its all in character of course, its just I kind of liked him more when I thought he was cool.
I'm betting that Jax will end up having his douchey exterior be cracked open since it's likely to be a coping mechanism.
3:32 Of course Ayy Lmao had to shoehorn Helluva boss in his Jax defense video.
Sigh
I try to give him a chance and Ayy makes good points a lot of the time
But wow, his fanboyism of Viv's shows is truly infuriating to watch.
At least he can acknowledge flaws here and again. Like how Ayy really didn't like Adam from HH.
AMAZING VIDEO!!!' you put my exact thoughts into words, i can't believe the lack of media literacy some tadc fans have....
Jax isn't morally grey, he's just an asshole.
I think like 90% of fandom problems are people who went into a show expecting it to be completely different from what it was.
And I think it's worth pointing out that we only have two episodes to go so we don't have enough info to know if Jax is a genuinely bad dude, an NPC and hiding it, or just someone coping with their new life in a really toxic way.
It might be worth giving the series time to see where it's going before passing judgement.
This is why, i enjoy the content for what it is and i dont engage with fandom. Its always frustrating to see people try to validate villians or villian like characters.
Kind of reminds me how I've wanted to make villains that are just pure evil and can't be reasoned with. I've had a few I've made, but haven't done anything with them. I'd say I'm curious to see how Jax turns out, seems like an interesting change of pace for people's expectations.
I love Jax even more the more mean he is. The more uncomfortable, horrible, disgusting, he is, the more I enjoy his character.
Gonna be honest. I am surprised people are surprised. What part of "Ladies first... wait, who am I kidding" did the fans take and took as a "aawwwwieee baddie with gold heaaaart"?
He was terrible still in the first episode, its people who saw the red flags and said "naahh, thats a cute shade of rose".
I still love him tho lol
The more that I thought about it, I knew that Jax was supposed to be an asshole, but the reason I didn't really like him in the second episode when I did the first one was more just because I didn't think his antics were very funny in the second episode in contrast to the first one, and while I think Jax was a comedic high point in the first episode, I don't think the comedy in Digital Circus is that good in the first place. I am interested in seeing where Jax's character goes as the series continues though, the characters are a lot more interesting to me than the comedy is.
O shit, its mangakamen! I watched your vids waaaayy back, but drifted out of them when i got out of mlp. Happy to have refound you, and digging the new style! Def resubbing
Your videos are getting better and better
There are literally only TWO episodes, how tf are people actually mad already?? The show just started oml. Unless there is a comic I’m missing, how are fans gonna be mad about a character that we’ve hardly even got the lore for yet? It’s crazy the fans are criticizing Gooseworx for not writing HER own character correctly, they need to get a grip fr.
It is TWO episodes. Honestly, the Stella comparison is valid. They are both always have been assholes. Maybe Jax would show a softer side later but he hasn't.
Omg thank you for making this video
No problem
Here’s my defense… seriously? You guys couldn’t get that he was an absolute asshole? Guy without any hesitation walked on Gangles comedy mask, didn’t even need to move across the room, just chose to do it, has keys to everyones rooms so god knows what he does when they are not paying attention or asleep, and tossed a bowling ball to shove kinger down a hole and made gangle tangle up in a ball. Other than that he is everything I expected from the unsubtle foreshadowing and subtext of his dialogue episode one and love it
Hold on yall, just started the video and immediately got entranced by "Jax Toy" playing in the intro--
1:30
Allow me to ruin this for you
"Diaper Meaning"
WAIT A SECOND! I remember that fanfiction account of yours. I have it still on my favorite list.
I remember hearing that people were insisting Sylvanas Windrunner was morally grey after her character assassination that turned her into a straight up monster (something Shadowlands tried and failed to explain but it at least wasn't as bad as the CRWBY trying to justify Ironwood's by claiming his superpower is a mental disorder). Not saying Jax is a complete monster himself mind, that brief bit of genuine sadness when Ragatha explained the funerals suggests that he's not but that doesn't make him a good person or 'morally grey" either of course. It just means there's a chance he's not a one-note cardboard cutout.