I am currently reading Mr. O'Tooles book We don't know ourselves. I want to laugh, and cry simultaneously. My family was part of the diaspora of the 1800's. I am glad they did, but I wish they hadn't, also simultaneously. Thank you for this book, it's brilliant.
Brilliant summary of Irish contemporary history from so many perspectives, as well as hitting the most pertinant implications of Brexit for Northern Ireland! This talk can help anyone understand the Irish culture and mindset, in just an hour.
Totally agree John. Well said. I was born in 1961 so can so identify with what Fintan has written. Shocking how women were treated. Can't express as well as you do. Shades of Tailban mentality. Thank God for all those brave women. June Levine, Mary Kenny, Mary Robinson and the rest. We owe them so much.
@@catherinekeane1901 I was born in Dublin in 1951. Fintan O'Toole's insights, memories talks and writings remind me constantly that my memories of a frightening and repressed Irish childhood are NOT simply fantasies. I now live in the United States, and to witness the endless regressive, evangelical "anti - women" madness that is now sweeping many parts of this land is truly depressing. "Shades of Taliban mentality" is correct.
I was born and raised just down the road in Oughterard. Throughout the 1960’s, 70’s and 80’s the emigration continued at pace. Especially in the western counties like Galway. It only slacked in the mid 1990’s.
Bravo to Fintan! I came upon 'We Don’t Know Ourselves: A Personal History of Modern Ireland' via the New York Times book podcast. I have 34 minutes left of listening to the book. The last chapter in this 22 hour listen is called, 'Jesus Fucking Hell and God'. I was named after Siobhán McKenna, my father having been a great Irish-American romantic. When I was in college, spring of 1980, I went to Ireland with my parents and we found the Irish to be as charming as our expectations. But the country still reeling from it's past. The country was lush with varying hues of greens, but the Irish wore very dull colors. The hotels were drab and the food, well... the food was miserable. Almost everything we were served was swimming in cream. One meal, stood out for it's extra blandness, creamed cauliflower with mashed potatoes and some sort of meat. I read soon after our trip, reacting to American tourist's complaints, a push was made to entice French chefs to relocate to Ireland. And from what I have read, the biggest revolution in Irish restaurant food began in the early 1990’s and two women must take a great deal of the credit for it - Myrtle Allen of Ballymaloe House in Cork and her daughter-in-law, Darina. A passage in O’Toole's book was about dance halls. He described how young people would go to another town to dance, fearing being whispered about. This sparked a memory- I was invited by a young man to go to a dance hall. It was a fun reprieve from being with my parents 24/7 and a peak into youth culture at the time. Well done Fintan!
Brilliant and honest account of the amazing changes In Ireland, especially since joining the EEC/EU , this allowed Ireland to look beyond its big brother and prosper, interesting to hear trade with the UK is now at 14% when Ireland became independent 100 years ago 98% of all trade was with the Uk mostly food and alcohol, Well done Fintan 👍
In the 1960s corporate profits tax on exported manufactured goods was reduced to zero, then later the the concept of low taxes for all companies was brought in leading to the IDA promoting Ireland as a location for low volume high value manufacturing in the 1980s So that goods could be exported by air freight and the result... influx of foreign pharmaceutical, medical devices and technology companies such as Microsoft, Intel etc. LATER ON this led to Facebook, etc. Ireland has been an exemplary story of economic development. David McCabe aged 83 chartered accountant
@@davidmccabe4041 There is a chapter in his book about those very companies wanting an even lower rate of tax after threatening to pull out of the country. Suggest reading it.
I am 20 years younger than fintan o'toole so in 1959 I was studying for my intermediate chartered accountants exam. I was sure there would be questions on Ken Whittaker's First Programme for Economic Expansion so I devoured the document. Ken Whitaker and his political master sean lemass changed Ireland in 1959 to what it is today....prosperous, international, outgoing, etc thank you David McCabe dublin
Listening to this lecture once again...in 1958 as a student I hitch hiked through Belgium, Germany and France with an Irish flag on my ruck sack. Not one person recognised it. They would stop and suggest Holland (similar in tone) or italy (similar in flag) . Fintan is quite right, pre 1973 Ireland did not exist in the minds of Europeans, David McCabe Dublin aged 83
Appreciate you explaining why a hard border between NI and the Republic of Ireland would be catastrophic and bring back the violence. Good to hear how two Americans help bring about the Good Friday Agreement, i.e. George Mitchell and Bill Clinton.
Cassius Clay changed his name to Muhammad Ali because of the Christian links to the slave trade... how ironic that he was never educated about the Islamic slave trade and its involvement with the European Atlantic slave trade. I've been a Unionist for most of my life but thanks to Brexit and my atheism I find myself warming to a united Ireland and moving away from a UK under the thumb of English Nationalism and Fascism. I'm 60 this year and I have the greatest respect for you Fintan, inciteful as always.
I note that when you talk about Muslims trading slaves, it is Islamic, but when Christians trade slaves it's "European"... why not call a spade a spade... it was the CHRISTIAN Atlantic slave trade... Would you like me to quote the parts of the Bible which justify the keeping of slaves? Jesus believed in the right to own of slaves. No doubt about that.
No memtion of the "tribunals", Fintan? Nor acknowledment that Ireland was one of the few countries (i.e.Ireland, Portugal & Greece) where the whole country (instead of just deprived regions) was in receipt of EU Structural Funds, for, what, 15 years.And after, the BMW regions with Cohesion Funds. Ireland wouldn't be where it was without that infrastructure & educational support. It wasn't just down to Americans!
Fintan is amongst the most interesting and amusing people I've ever listened to in these types of discussions. One of the few raconteurs of this era who can totally compete with him is Bernadette Devlin McAliskey. Two of the most gifted Irish people of their generation.
Fintan is an amaazing orator. I could listen to him for hours. I have a sister I will likely never meet, my Mam in catholic Ireland circa 1980... yep bundlled off. I am so glad Ireland has become more progressive in recent years, but it is really important to remember the history . Sometimes I think Americans have this very romantic idea of "the home country" - but Dublin is just a dirty city same as London, or New York, or Chicago.... If you're coming across the Atlantic and you want to "visit Ireland" I'd implore you to go West, or South...
At 79 we played on the bomb sites & were just missed by the same. I hope you put the book online? I lost the sight in my Left Eye in January 2021. I love reading but it is now very difficult to do. My parents used to put up Professor Haldane author of 'On Being the Right Size' when they & the Professor were in the UK CP while Sean O' Casey was a childhood friend of their comrade, Tom Storey, so they also met Sean. (Sean was happier in the UK I was told. I think he & his family ended up in Torquay, not my favourite place.) My mother's side of the family came from Eire brought in to work in the Welsh Mines.
Patrick, on his way home, came upon his friend wondering around with the air of one looking for something. 'What is the matter Sean.' 'I am looking for my keys.' Patrick helps his friend ad every inch of the ground is searched with meticulous thoroughness, but the search was fruitless. 'Are you sure that you lost them here abouts? 'No! It was down the road,but there is a light here!' The story is often told in that tone of mockery that elites tell of that section of the community they secretly despise but it has a certain pertinence. The moral of the story is that concentrating too much on theories and ideologies one can miss the point,immersed in the pursuit of the wrong question in the wrong way, at the wrong time. Fintan O'Toole asks that right question! Is this light relevant to this quest?
I’m about 3/4 of the way through this right now. I’ll be back to watch when I finish, quite shocking about how the Catholic Church managed to suppress women’s rights and LGBT populations for so long and so extensively, heartbreaking.
I don't think anyone had much interest in what we now call LGBT rights until the 90s. Of course, the issue with the Catholic church was that so many priests were gay, often practising- but were charged with making sure no-one else in the parish could be. The amount of guilt about being gay in the priesthood meant that child abusers in the clergy could blackmail the other priests into keeping quiet- "you tell the Bishop about me, I'll tell him about you."
Not really. The more traditional Irish values regarding sexuality and gender, like those in most parts of the world, evolved around the fact that the needs of your family, community, clan, trumped those of the individual. Non-reproductive sexual relationships and the normalisation of homosexuality were viewed a threat to society, because it impeded and stopped a society from adequately reproducing healthy offspring. Even in a modern society, these pro-LGBTQ values will and are resulting in a quick collapse of population numbers, wherever these sexual and gender values are implemented.... really it's all about what is more important... the individual, or society.
@@tomgreene1843 You can't go against the natural order of things without consequences. People just need to find happiness in who they are, male, female, black, white, Irish or British. Happiness is not found in going against the laws of nature, it is found in accepting, submitting and embracing it
@@clavichord unfortunately the so called natural order of things has been so abusive to women and children. If the Catholuc Church had a conscience it would disband itself. It produced a high percentage of child abusers and men who didn't have the balls to stand up and be counted when it came to their sexuality. It also produced generations of nuns who put these same men on a pedestal they never deserved to be on and who at the same time denegrated girls and women.
I notice Fintan o’Toole repeated the time honoured mistake of giving the population of all Ireland in the 1840s, and then gave the population of the Republic of Ireland in the the 1950s. He made a direct population comparison, leaving out the population of Northern Ireland, in the 1950s. We see this mistake being made again and again. Very surprising though, from a person as knowledgeable as Fintan o’ Toole.
He did say the population of 'Independent Ireland' was 2.8 million, so he was correct. Had he added in the 1.5 million of the North then, the population would still have been at 4.3 million, less than half that in the early 1840's. Whilst I see your point that the all island statistic would be the more fair comparison, I think he chose the southern statistic because this personal history is primarily that of the Republic he grew up in.
That introduction describing O'Toole as being on the list of "Britain's" top intellectuals could have been a little embarrassing, but on the other hand he's probably quite chuffed.
Read it. A question for F O'T: Are you an author while simultaneously being a newspaper columnist or are you just a person when you're not actually in the process of writing? The answer may appear to be existential to you, but to many it may just be waffle.
Wasn't Ireland united and peaceful after joining the UK in 1801? It seems the independence movement has caused lots of problems - a civil war, mass movement of people, partition, the troubles, peace walls, bombings. Maybe a peaceful united Ireland with home rule would have been better - within the UK. Very much like now with Ireland in the EU. Was 1916 a mistake?
Although we all loved Muhammed Ali we should not forget his Islamic connection from cassis clay the identification of rebellion leaders worldwide be it blm.. Eta.. Basque... Irish..
Yeah, fk respecting the democratic process and how about more of that treasure people want to invest in the Anglophone tax haven with the Scot free guaranteed nuclear deterrent.
I am currently reading Mr. O'Tooles book We don't know ourselves. I want to laugh, and cry simultaneously. My family was part of the diaspora of the 1800's. I am glad they did, but I wish they hadn't, also simultaneously. Thank you for this book, it's brilliant.
The blessed Bernadette smacked the Home Secretary on the jaw after Bloody Sunday. Westminister was so stunned they forgot to expel her.
Brilliant summary of Irish contemporary history from so many perspectives, as well as hitting the most pertinant implications of Brexit for Northern Ireland! This talk can help anyone understand the Irish culture and mindset, in just an hour.
Totally agree John. Well said. I was born in 1961 so can so identify with what Fintan has written. Shocking how women were treated. Can't express as well as you do. Shades of Tailban mentality. Thank God for all those brave women. June Levine, Mary Kenny, Mary Robinson and the rest. We owe them so much.
@@catherinekeane1901Ask Mary Kenny .
@@catherinekeane1901 I was born in Dublin in 1951. Fintan O'Toole's insights, memories talks and writings remind me constantly that my memories of a frightening and repressed Irish childhood are NOT simply fantasies.
I now live in the United States, and to witness the endless regressive, evangelical "anti - women" madness that is now sweeping many parts of this land is truly depressing. "Shades of Taliban mentality" is correct.
My grandparents left Galway and Moycullen in the 1920s and came to Chicago and here I am now, completely interested in this material.
I was born and raised just down the road in Oughterard. Throughout the 1960’s, 70’s and 80’s the emigration continued at pace. Especially in the western counties like Galway.
It only slacked in the mid 1990’s.
Bravo to Fintan! I came upon 'We Don’t Know Ourselves: A Personal History of Modern Ireland' via the New York Times book podcast. I have 34 minutes left of listening to the book. The last chapter in this 22 hour listen is called, 'Jesus Fucking Hell and God'. I was named after Siobhán McKenna, my father having been a great Irish-American romantic. When I was in college, spring of 1980, I went to Ireland with my parents and we found the Irish to be as charming as our expectations. But the country still reeling from it's past. The country was lush with varying hues of greens, but the Irish wore very dull colors. The hotels were drab and the food, well... the food was miserable. Almost everything we were served was swimming in cream. One meal, stood out for it's extra blandness, creamed cauliflower with mashed potatoes and some sort of meat. I read soon after our trip, reacting to American tourist's complaints, a push was made to entice French chefs to relocate to Ireland. And from what I have read, the biggest revolution in Irish restaurant food began in the early 1990’s and two women must take a great deal of the credit for it - Myrtle Allen of Ballymaloe House in Cork and her daughter-in-law, Darina. A passage in O’Toole's book was about dance halls. He described how young people would go to another town to dance, fearing being whispered about. This sparked a memory- I was invited by a young man to go to a dance hall. It was a fun reprieve from being with my parents 24/7 and a peak into youth culture at the time. Well done Fintan!
Brilliant and honest account of the amazing changes In Ireland, especially since joining the EEC/EU , this allowed Ireland to look beyond its big brother and prosper, interesting to hear trade with the UK is now at 14% when Ireland became independent 100 years ago 98% of all trade was with the Uk mostly food and alcohol,
Well done Fintan 👍
Interesting to hear about the perverts in the clergy that got away with it for so long.
In the 1960s corporate profits tax on exported manufactured goods was reduced to zero, then later the the concept of low taxes for all companies was brought in leading to the IDA promoting Ireland as a location for low volume high value manufacturing in the 1980s So that goods could be exported by air freight and the result... influx of foreign pharmaceutical, medical devices and technology companies such as Microsoft, Intel etc. LATER ON this led to Facebook, etc. Ireland has been an exemplary story of economic development. David McCabe aged 83 chartered accountant
@@davidmccabe4041
There is a chapter in his book about those very companies wanting an even lower rate of tax after threatening to pull out of the country.
Suggest reading it.
Also.......it's full of Africans now.
I am 20 years younger than fintan o'toole so in 1959 I was studying for my intermediate chartered accountants exam. I was sure there would be questions on Ken Whittaker's First Programme for Economic Expansion so I devoured the document. Ken Whitaker and his political master sean lemass changed Ireland in 1959 to what it is today....prosperous, international, outgoing, etc thank you David McCabe dublin
Listening to this lecture once again...in 1958 as a student I hitch hiked through Belgium, Germany and France with an Irish flag on my ruck sack. Not one person recognised it. They would stop and suggest Holland (similar in tone) or italy (similar in flag) . Fintan is quite right, pre 1973 Ireland did not exist in the minds of Europeans, David McCabe Dublin aged 83
It would probably be about the same for Belgium in Ireland.
Great to hear that story!
Thank so much for posting this important story. These personal stories are valuable for us to know.
😢🎉🎉🎉😢😂🎉😂🎉😂😂😢😢😢🎉🎉😂😂🎉😂😢😂😂🎉🎉😂😂😊😢😂😂❤😂❤❤❤😊❤❤❤❤😂❤❤😂😂❤❤😂😊❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Appreciate you explaining why a hard border between NI and the Republic of Ireland would be catastrophic and bring back the violence. Good to hear how two Americans help bring about the Good Friday Agreement, i.e. George Mitchell and Bill Clinton.
...and Chuck Feeney!
Cassius Clay changed his name to Muhammad Ali because of the Christian links to the slave trade... how ironic that he was never educated about the Islamic slave trade and its involvement with the European Atlantic slave trade.
I've been a Unionist for most of my life but thanks to Brexit and my atheism I find myself warming to a united Ireland and moving away from a UK under the thumb of English Nationalism and Fascism.
I'm 60 this year and I have the greatest respect for you Fintan, inciteful as always.
Looking forward to sharing this beautiful island as partners✌🏼👍🏼
Fair play to you for having the courage to stand up and say 'I changed my mind'. I can honestly say I've never read this in a comments section before.
The Catholic Church has nothing to say thank God and is a multitude of religions now in the republic. I myself an agnostic.
I note that when you talk about Muslims trading slaves, it is Islamic, but when Christians trade slaves it's "European"... why not call a spade a spade... it was the CHRISTIAN Atlantic slave trade... Would you like me to quote the parts of the Bible which justify the keeping of slaves? Jesus believed in the right to own of slaves. No doubt about that.
...good on yer lad!
It’s funny how a book can fall into your hands at the right moment.
Thank you ☘️
No memtion of the "tribunals", Fintan? Nor acknowledment that Ireland was one of the few countries (i.e.Ireland, Portugal & Greece) where the whole country (instead of just deprived regions) was in receipt of EU Structural Funds, for, what, 15 years.And after, the BMW regions with Cohesion Funds. Ireland wouldn't be where it was without that infrastructure & educational support. It wasn't just down to Americans!
Wow. This was absolutely worth viewing. Thank you.
Fintan is amongst the most interesting and amusing people I've ever listened to in these types of discussions. One of the few raconteurs of this era who can totally compete with him is Bernadette Devlin McAliskey. Two of the most gifted Irish people of their generation.
Fintan is an amaazing orator. I could listen to him for hours.
I have a sister I will likely never meet, my Mam in catholic Ireland circa 1980... yep bundlled off.
I am so glad Ireland has become more progressive in recent years, but it is really important to remember the history . Sometimes I think Americans have this very romantic idea of "the home country" - but Dublin is just a dirty city same as London, or New York, or Chicago....
If you're coming across the Atlantic and you want to "visit Ireland" I'd implore you to go West, or South...
At 79 we played on the bomb sites & were just missed by the same. I hope you put the book online? I lost the sight in my Left Eye in January 2021. I love reading but it is now very difficult to do. My parents used to put up Professor Haldane author of 'On Being the Right Size' when they & the Professor were in the UK CP while Sean O' Casey was a childhood friend of their comrade, Tom Storey, so they also met Sean. (Sean was happier in the UK I was told. I think he & his family ended up in Torquay, not my favourite place.) My mother's side of the family came from Eire brought in to work in the Welsh Mines.
Patrick, on his way home, came upon his friend wondering around with the air of one looking for something. 'What is the matter Sean.' 'I am looking for my keys.' Patrick helps his friend ad every inch of the ground is searched with meticulous thoroughness, but the search was fruitless. 'Are you sure that you lost them here abouts? 'No! It was down the road,but there is a light here!' The story is often told in that tone of mockery that elites tell of that section of the community they secretly despise but it has a certain pertinence. The moral of the story is that concentrating too much on theories and ideologies one can miss the point,immersed in the pursuit of the wrong question in the wrong way, at the wrong time. Fintan O'Toole asks that right question! Is this light relevant to this quest?
Very informative and insightful overview. Thank you
The Northern Ireland Protocol makes String Theory look obvious.
So McQuaid started cancel culture😂😂😂. You are so right that the brutality was taken out on women and children.
fab book, I just loved it, every page.
Maybe the statement "speak for yourself Fintan " springs to mind
I’m about 3/4 of the way through this right now. I’ll be back to watch when I finish, quite shocking about how the Catholic Church managed to suppress women’s rights and LGBT populations for so long and so extensively, heartbreaking.
I don't think anyone had much interest in what we now call LGBT rights until the 90s. Of course, the issue with the Catholic church was that so many priests were gay, often practising- but were charged with making sure no-one else in the parish could be. The amount of guilt about being gay in the priesthood meant that child abusers in the clergy could blackmail the other priests into keeping quiet- "you tell the Bishop about me, I'll tell him about you."
Not really. The more traditional Irish values regarding sexuality and gender, like those in most parts of the world, evolved around the fact that the needs of your family, community, clan, trumped those of the individual. Non-reproductive sexual relationships and the normalisation of homosexuality were viewed a threat to society, because it impeded and stopped a society from adequately reproducing healthy offspring. Even in a modern society, these pro-LGBTQ values will and are resulting in a quick collapse of population numbers, wherever these sexual and gender values are implemented.... really it's all about what is more important... the individual, or society.
@@clavichord Fintan might not have a lot of time for your view , but neither would his paper.
@@tomgreene1843 You can't go against the natural order of things without consequences. People just need to find happiness in who they are, male, female, black, white, Irish or British. Happiness is not found in going against the laws of nature, it is found in accepting, submitting and embracing it
@@clavichord unfortunately the so called natural order of things has been so abusive to women and children. If the Catholuc Church had a conscience it would disband itself. It produced a high percentage of child abusers and men who didn't have the balls to stand up and be counted when it came to their sexuality. It also produced generations of nuns who put these same men on a pedestal they never deserved to be on and who at the same time denegrated girls and women.
I notice Fintan o’Toole repeated the time honoured mistake of giving the population of all Ireland in the 1840s, and then gave the population of the Republic of Ireland in the the 1950s. He made a direct population comparison, leaving out the population of Northern Ireland, in the 1950s. We see this mistake being made again and again. Very surprising though, from a person as knowledgeable as Fintan o’ Toole.
He did say the population of 'Independent Ireland' was 2.8 million, so he was correct. Had he added in the 1.5 million of the North then, the population would still have been at 4.3 million, less than half that in the early 1840's. Whilst I see your point that the all island statistic would be the more fair comparison, I think he chose the southern statistic because this personal history is primarily that of the Republic he grew up in.
@@seandoherty925 No, his comparison was inaccurate, and highly misleading.
@@davidpryle3935 As the paper of which he is editor proudly used to proclaim ...facts have no agenda ....if you will believe that!!
@@tomgreene1843 I’d take their “facts” with a fairly large pinch of salt, these days.
I noticed that too! Strange
Sorry 20 years older than Fintan David mccabe
Now the math makes sense, thanks for the update.
That introduction describing O'Toole as being on the list of "Britain's" top intellectuals could have been a little embarrassing, but on the other hand he's probably quite chuffed.
I intend to buy this book next year on London.
Read it. A question for F O'T: Are you an author while simultaneously being a newspaper columnist or are you just a person when you're not actually in the process of writing? The answer may appear to be existential to you, but to many it may just be waffle.
I think Canada should look at Ireland and say maybe would be a good idea to join the EU 😳🤓
Wasn't Ireland united and peaceful after joining the UK in 1801? It seems the independence movement has caused lots of problems - a civil war, mass movement of people, partition, the troubles, peace walls, bombings. Maybe a peaceful united Ireland with home rule would have been better - within the UK. Very much like now with Ireland in the EU. Was 1916 a mistake?
Although we all loved Muhammed Ali we should not forget his Islamic connection from cassis clay the identification of rebellion leaders worldwide be it blm.. Eta.. Basque... Irish..
Cassies clay
Yeah, fk respecting the democratic process and how about more of that treasure people want to invest in the Anglophone tax haven with the Scot free guaranteed nuclear deterrent.
Boringly discriminary