@@ScarletRebel96 i was being silly and thought it would be funny to mix He-Man and Thundercats, since both had swords, but were neither star wars (Dygo's comment), nor anime (the reply). I blame my backache and pitiful sense of humor.
Mechanical Engineer here. Just wanted to offer a small point of correction. You seem to imply that galvanized steel is somehow more tough than non-galvanized. In actuality, galvanization doesn’t affect the strength at all and is just a process that improves corrosion resistance. It’s a method for applying a zinc coating to the surface of the steel to act as a sacrificial coating. So the zinc corrodes instead of the steel. The grade (heat treatment) of the steel is the important part, as you so often point out with swords. Anyways. Long time fan of the channel, keep up the great work!!
This is technically true, but in many regions you generally only find galvanized on fairly high strength steel (at least when you're shopping commodity grade, industry will spec exactly what they want for an application). The problem is the trade off between corrosion resistance, cost, brittleness, and hardness. You could take a mild steel and galvanize it, but you're usually better off adding vanadium and chromium to the metal itself to make it stainless. It's when you have a fairly high carbon steel that it's cheaper to galvanize than to move to an exotic high carbon stainless, at least if a galvanized coating is sufficient for the application.
Just FYI, the Rockwell Hardness scale is NON-LINEAR. This means that comparing the numbers in terms of "a 5 point difference" can be largely unhelpful. Based on the ranges stated, the broadsword is anywhere from 4% (1 points difference at 49 to 50) up to 35.7% (values 45 and 54) harder.
Could you imagine one of your guys is chained up and your like "Don't worry, I'll release you." And so you try to chop the chain with the sword and now its embedded in the wood, and now they have less wiggle room and they're like "Gee, thanks a lot."
People really underestimate how strong chains and hardened steel is. Even huge bolt cutters, a tool designed to cut through that stuff, has a really difficult time cutting through, and often times just flat out won't be able to. A sword has almost no chance of cutting through a chain unless the chain steel is really weak and quite thin.
Yeah. The only things I can think of that really cut through chains with ease would be cutting discs on an angle grinder or a torch. Both using completely different action to cut through with one using high velocity abrasion and the other outright melting through the chain links.
While that is true, it is a bit of a poor comparison. The forces for the cutters are different. You use consistent strength to choke through the chain (or bolt, or whatever), while with a sword, you're using explosive strength to smash through it. The scissor shape of the cutters (and one that uses leverage to a much greater effect) is what allows you to cut through the chain with lesser force than with a sword, but that does not technically dismiss the swords ability to eat through it. The caveat is that the sword needs to be fair deal harder and probably requires consecutive, accurate strikes, which it is not very likely to withstand (due to the strength increase actually affecting it equally as much as the chain). The difference in consistent strength and explosive strength is quite easy to test, by the way, for those that want to argue that 'if it's the same person doing it, there's no difference!". Take a bottle of water and cut a small hole in the cap. Squish it slowly and see how high the water will squirt. Then refill it to the starting level and punch it, see how much it squirts again. The punch will make small amount of it squirt, but it will squirt higher. That's why doors are being 'kicked down', not 'pushed down'. The momentum adds extra force and the energy is passed on more vigorously. On the flip side, it's short-lived, which is why you will swing a car that's out of fuel to start it moving, but you will push it once it does.
one thing to consider is that these are expensive tools you don't want to destroy. additinally you want them designed in a way that other people also don't destroy them accidentally. plus safety reasons. compare that to a sword where none of the precautions is done. the sword will get destroyed but maybe the chain too.
Feels like for safety you gave the chain an advantage of being braced on a relatively soft object (compared to the chain) where it could dig into and rebound out of the brace, turning force into deformation of another object or breaking free of the brace.
@@darrinrebagliati5365 That's crazy to think about while doing a test like this. At that point *something* is going to give in and the stone block ain't going anywhere. I guess the amount force being put in is a big contributor to what might happen. Makes you wonder how much force would it take before either the sword breaks or the chain does and can it be replicated by a human.
If you are going to try chains again you should bolt the ends through an upright board then to a horizontal board at a 45 degree angle so that the wood can't absorb some of the force, plus it would simulate cutting through it more like you described at the beginning of the video.
This video was very helpful for me. I have a chain breaking scene in my WIP book, only the character there was using a 1 handed war axe, and while he cut through one of his, and one other's chains, he did nearly wreck the blade in the process and couldn't break any of the other chains upon him or his chain enforced travel companion.
genuine question here, as a german I wondered if its really historically called grossE Messer and not gross Messer. I am asking because grosse Messer would be plural in modern german, while gross Messer would be ONE great Knife
Look up Medieval German and find out. Languages change over time. EG: the present day English word "gay" means homosexual male, whereas even as late as the 1950s it meant "happy". Archaic terms like "in privy" are no longer used or grammatically correct, and instead we use "privacy" or "private", which were not worlds in medieval times and if you said that to a late era medieval person (notwithstanding the great vowel shift), he'd probably have no clue what the heck you're talking about.
At least German wiki )yes, yes) says "Großes Messer", which just means "big knife". that grosse Messer just seems to be the "foreigners adding an -e at the end of German words for no discernable reason" thing.
For additional clarity/comparison/translations to non germans: Grossmesser = Great knife, GrossE Messer = GreatE knife (singular; bad grammar too) Grosse Messer = Great knives (plural) Correct way to add an "E" would be possible: Das grosse Messer = That great sword (exact, singular) Ein grosses Messer = A great sword (any, singular) Same in plurals with added "E": Diese grossen Messer = These great knives (exact, plural) Die grossen messer = The great knives (any, plural) Lastly "ss" is sometimes replaced by the character "ß" when it's after a vocal character. In case of "Grossmesser", the "ss" is followed by the vocal "o" and should usually be a "ß" character. So correct would be "Großmesser", but for simplicity i didn't use that here. Also every native german knows what you mean, no matter if you use "ss" or "ß". The pronounciation is the same. The character "ß" has historical origin. Source: I'm living in Germany my whole life, but i'm not a linguist or historian. Edit: grammar lol
Alright, I think I'm gonna get one of those Honshu Messers for my lawncare work. I can definitely see myself chopping down tree limbs with that. My war on nature shall continue!!!
So happy to see the content being recommended to me as soon as it comes out ! I support on Patreon and always watch every single bts video, and I’m actually so happy to see so any people saying the same thing about video recommendations !
To better identify the latest damage you guys might want to use a quick very thin shot of spray paint after each hit. It would make it so that the newest damage is always the one with bare metal. You could also do colors for the different weapons you use in a test like this so that when you show the chain at the end all the Messer's strikes were in red and the other sword is blue for example.
As a german "grosse messer" makes no sense. It should either be "Großmesser", as one word meaning "Greatknife" essentially. Or "Großes Messer" which would mean "Great Knife" as two words. Well, "big" would be a more fitting translation for "gross" but in english you'd call it "great", cause "Bigknife" doesn't really fit into english naming conventions I believe. And for those wondering about that letter I'm using above. "ß" is just "ss" basically. A letter we use in german for a double s most of the time. Double consonants like "ss" mean that the following vowel is pronounced short and quickly, while single consonants mean the vowel is supposed to be pronounced normally. But just "s" is a very soft s sound, meanwhile "ss" is a very sharp hissing s sound. So we have "ss" and "ß", both being the sharp s sound, to differentiate at what speed to pronounce the vowel afterwards basically. "Ss" if the following vowel is short, "ß" if it's long. Thanks for coming to my TED talk. EDIT: I brainfarted when I made this comment about one thing. "grosse messer" still makes sense in certain grammatical contexts. When you're talking about it, saying "The big knife over there." for example, you'd say "Das große messer da drüben." So, "grosse messer" has it's place in german grammar, I just found it weird in the title since it would need "the" or "das" in front for it to sound right. And since "grosse" is a word where the vowel "o" is said normally, not in a fast way, it should be "ß", not "ss". So "Große Messer".
Das ß ist ein sz kein ss, bei einem langen s Laut wird immernoch ß benutzt, von daher ist Grosses Messer auch totaler Unfug, es müsste das Große Messer geschrieben werden. Der Unterschied zwischen Großem und Langem Messer ist wohl die Säbelform des Großen Messers, während das Lange Messer gerade ist.
@@Havamal3The ss/sz distinction hasn't existed for over 800 years, at least not when used internally (as opposed to finally). This means that the age of the Landsknecht would never have used "groszes" as a spelling, as that spelling convention (and the underlying pronunciations it represented) would have been dead for roughly 200 years. Switzerland doesn't even use the ß at all, making "grosses Messer" correct.
@@JeffreyOller Landsknecht would have used Kriegsmesser the long sword type of range of these weapons if they would have used Messers. They didn't to my knowledge use lange or große Messer at all since these type of weapons had already been replaced with either Dusack or Katzbalger when Landsknecht were a thing.
@@Havamal3 Good point. I suppose I was thinking of Kriegsmesser. My mistake. My point does remain, though, that many dielects did not find it necessary to denote the long o in "groß" and spelling it "gross" was not uncommon after the 13 century, to my understanding. Indeed that is the case today in Swiss German.
Don't try this at home. Shad and Tyranth are classic chained, I mean trained. I'd say no. Even basic iron or low quality steel chain is difficult to cut, and the blade of swords really isn't designed for cutting metal. You can pierce metal with a sword to extant. Like piercing chainmail or thin plate. But even as mighty chopper as that Messer probably won't cut chain.
I'd argue that it is very much plausible. Some later period polish sabres were tested on steel rods/sheets in terms of performance. IDK if this is completely accurate but a quick google search will return these things as part of tests they would "inflict" upon the blades: a) thrusting through a metal sheet in freefall b)cutting through a steel rod placed on a lead brace 5 times (edit: both of these things would have to result in no significant damage to the blade) So if a 1920-1935 period steel COULD do that, there is no reason for modern steel to not be able to do similar things.
Chains generally have a lot of cut resistance. Supposedly this is the origins of why chainmail was made. However, crushing forces may be able to get through or weaken a chain to fail! Much like how crushing blows could still harm the person in the chainmail. If I had a guess a good wedge like a hatchet struck specifically towards weld points or starting force in between links might also provide the forces nessecary for a weaker chain to fail.
Going back to the Thaitsuki katana, I was thinking another possibility for the initial rolling in the testing could be that it was possibly TOO sharp and alignment was slightly off when it hit the pipe. Higher price end katanas tend to be made sharper with less "niku" or "meat" supporting the cutting edge that more budget katanas tend to have.
Honshumesser? Gesundheit! Only at the start of the video, not had to make at least one pun after seeing some great ones in chat. Seriously, though, I'm always glad to see an upload here, and this video subject especially. It's an often used conceit that I don't think I'd expect to be terribly valid. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens.
this is also confirms that chainmail armors are amazing. especially if the tiny chain links are made out of good quality steel and not a bare iron. that probably would even provide great concealed protection from knife attacks in these modern days.
I would have liked to see a test where the chain was stretched taut between two anchor points, or the chain was hanging with a very heavy weight on the end. Even clamped to that beam, there was a great deal of give, when the clamps flew off and the chain had freedom to move.
@@Blurnsit’s more likely he does behind the scenes work, as he doesn’t appear as comfortable in front of the camera as the others have. Think like what Nathan was doing, editing and such
At 1:02 Cutting chain with swords.... And you missed one of the oldest of the most famous ones.... Conan the Barbarian, use the new sword he found to cut the chain off his leg....
I like Tyranth’s perspective sometimes. I can tell he likes to “Describe” think about the potential perspectives. And I like Shad’s approach “EXCITEDLY” sometimes with visually demonstrating Tyrants points! No pun intended 😂😂😂. These two using that method as they do is “PERFECT”!!!.
Would love to see The Cold Steel Grosse Messer (not the man at arms one) the normal one should be tough as well would love to see how tough. Cool Video keep it up
I think that the weight distribution on the Messer makes it hit with much more force than the tipical sword when swinged (especially near the tip), witch makes it more likely to have the edge damaged (and also deal more blunt damage). More energy is requiered to move a heavier object, hence it releases more enegery on impact (factor affected by good or bad balance).
If Hollywood has taught me anything it is that if you are held captive in chains your best option is to pick up a nearby rock and repeatedly hit the chain with it, even if the rock is crumbling to dust you should eventually free yourself.
1. Thats a pretty thick chain 2. Medieval chains with worse material will probably be broken easier 3. With wood behind the chain, the wood will take a lot of the shock. A steel plate behind it or really strong tension will make it more possible
You could also argue depending on time period, the chains could have been made from wrought iron. Meaning they’d be more inclined to break against steel.
More examples: A gladiator chopping Tyrion's chain in Game of Thrones, Yoshida cutting the chain to release Wolverine, aliens in John Carter remove chains only this way...
I think having the chain in an actual real world scenario (bound around whatever its trying to keep closed etc) will have an enormous impact on the testing due to how much differently the energy will be traveling through it vs it being braced like it is in this vid.
I love how y’all are trying to compliment the United cutlery Honshu line, and then are like: on this one the pommel broke off, on this other one it did as well. This one bent pretty badly, and got turned into a serrated blade by chain.
That sword though... I'm so conflicted. It's absolutely gorgeous! But the work required to make it good is a bit too much. Grind in a distal taper, re-do the heat treatment (which you'd have to do after so much grinding anyways, in fact it's better to undo the hardening before you grind it, and apply it again afterwards) to make it harder and replace the "tacticool" grip with a proper handle. And it'd have to be a new one because with that bend I'm not trusting it anymore unless you completely reforge it. Metal fatigue in your tang is simply not safe.
1:06 One that sticks with me is in the Inheritance cycle, third book where Eragon cuts a chain with his new sword. It was also on fire, but it was pointed out that it wasn’t necessary, since it’s a super sword
Whoever thought it would be cool to put the red border around the camera is awesome!!! First weapon for this Bout I’ve no doubt will excite you!!! The Hunting Sword!! Love it!!! Sorry had to go with a “Kingdom Come Deliverance” Reference ❤❤❤
I think the chains depicted in most cases in media where medieval, probably made from some softer iron, not really comparable to the steel chains we have today, I can see how a tempered steel sword would make it through with some damage.
I would think if the chain was under more stress, like holding up a lot of weight. That the sword should be able to cut through it easier. Another Great video guys 👍🏻
I remember watching I think one of the Mummy movies as a kid and somebody cut through a chain with a sword and I remember thinking: "What the heck? That's stupid! A sword can't cut through a chain!" I've thought occasionally about it now and then over the years so now I finally have a video to tell me whether I was right or wrong!
fun fact- every channel who tries to chop chains doe so by placing the chain on soft woods-and i know it is not intentional :) testing it on a hardwood perpendicular to grain or straight out duralumin plate and screw the bugger to the base so it cannot escape ? or on a softer iron base for more dramatic effect- look how badly the chain submerged into the metal kind of thing :) and then with a badass axe to finish it off..... but honestly- i feel a slight pang i my chest when you do these unholy things to the swords...might be how guilty pleasure feels...
testing multiple chains would be cool to see. would be interesting also to maybe try a setup with the chain hanging with a weight attached putting it under tension to stop it flopping and twisting as much. Also, might be worth test against the wood but also a stone wall as a lot of the energy is going into the tree/wood and cushioning the blow (imagine a blacksmith trying to work on a tree stump rather than an anvil). so i'm picturing a softer/older style chain hanging under tension against a castle wall like it was holding up a portcullis, a chandelier or something
Also, I may be wrong, but I've split a lot of wood in my time, and the angle the sword hits seems like your hands are below the chain. When splitting wood, the force is drastically different when the head of the axe at the same height of your hands at the tkme of impact. Perhaps it's different wrong with swords? I want more tests!
When refering to HRC hardness. Iy doesnt go up linearlly. Each point goes up exponentially in hardness. So even 5 points is much harder. I have a knife and the blade is high in tungstun and the HRC is 67. And it is insanely hard. So hard that it can shatter like glass if i drop it on a hard flooring. But it keeps an edge for an incredibly long time.
In Prince Caspian I believe the Telmarine Soldier used an Axe to cut through the chain for the portcullis weight. But that is really cool to try with Swords! Also Big Fan!!
As a mechanical engineer, I think tensioning the chain under considerable load would probably make it easier to cut, as it's already under stress trying to break it apart. It might also keep it more firmly in place compared to that rather loose attachement you used in the last tests.
in the days of "robin Hood" the chain would have been iron not steel. the only steel that would have been available for that time period would have been crucible steel, which would have been super expensive, it would have been cheaper to make the chain out of silver than crucible steel.
After a certain thickness, the metallurgy doesn’t matter has much. We have extremely thick early jousting helmets that kings trusted their life with made out of basically iron
@@PJDAltamirus0425 but for jousting they wasn't using hardened steel tips on their lances. else there would have been a lot more kings in the succession.
A lot of "iron" IS low grade steel, just because the smelting process often puts a little carbon in. But even then, that steel has a different structure, more fibrous like wood, so that might make a difference in performance.
My guess, the Broadsword flexes more and therefore the impact energy isn't as bad as with the Messer. You could ust try if one scratches the other, then you wouuld know if one is softer. Also the Messer probably ggenerally has more energy on impact because it has more mass at the percussion point.
before watching, I think one of the things that would make this that much harder is that the chains have a lot of give and flex. A lot of the energy would be absorbed before it was made taught enough to then begin to be sheared through....
Every sword Shad tests: The attempt on my life has left me scarred... and deformed
Yo its thats naruto dude
@@ScarletRebel96how embarrassing. I thought it was He-Cats.
@@Grandwigg idk who that is to be honest friend 😕
@@ScarletRebel96 i was being silly and thought it would be funny to mix He-Man and Thundercats, since both had swords, but were neither star wars (Dygo's comment), nor anime (the reply).
I blame my backache and pitiful sense of humor.
@@Grandwigg ohhh ok now that I'm rereading that I understand better now what you was referencing lol
Mechanical Engineer here.
Just wanted to offer a small point of correction. You seem to imply that galvanized steel is somehow more tough than non-galvanized.
In actuality, galvanization doesn’t affect the strength at all and is just a process that improves corrosion resistance. It’s a method for applying a zinc coating to the surface of the steel to act as a sacrificial coating. So the zinc corrodes instead of the steel.
The grade (heat treatment) of the steel is the important part, as you so often point out with swords.
Anyways. Long time fan of the channel, keep up the great work!!
I'm guessing that's also the logic behind the chains holding Kong failing, because Denham thinks chrome steel is stronger than regular steel.
Welder here, yes.
This is technically true, but in many regions you generally only find galvanized on fairly high strength steel (at least when you're shopping commodity grade, industry will spec exactly what they want for an application). The problem is the trade off between corrosion resistance, cost, brittleness, and hardness. You could take a mild steel and galvanize it, but you're usually better off adding vanadium and chromium to the metal itself to make it stainless. It's when you have a fairly high carbon steel that it's cheaper to galvanize than to move to an exotic high carbon stainless, at least if a galvanized coating is sufficient for the application.
I mean, if you find a chain in an old dungeon, rust might have an effect on the hardness.
Well if both chains are brand new. sure, but an older chain that's not galvanized could have been eaten away by rust and therefore much weaker.
Just FYI, the Rockwell Hardness scale is NON-LINEAR. This means that comparing the numbers in terms of "a 5 point difference" can be largely unhelpful. Based on the ranges stated, the broadsword is anywhere from 4% (1 points difference at 49 to 50) up to 35.7% (values 45 and 54) harder.
Hey! I didn't know that thanks!
Yeah. Most scientific and engineering scales are exponential. And some are logarithmic.
Ah, was gonna come to comment basically that. Thanks mate
Additionally a common kitchen knife should be around 52 HRC, meaning the 45-50 would be softer than a kitchen knife!
@@Mr.MasterOfTheMonsters What's the difference???
Could you imagine one of your guys is chained up and your like
"Don't worry, I'll release you."
And so you try to chop the chain with the sword and now its embedded in the wood, and now they have less wiggle room and they're like
"Gee, thanks a lot."
They just turned the chain link into a big ugly nail 🤣
i loved tyranth's cheeky smile when shad said "the steck is dacked against it" hahaha
16:33 " The steck is dacked against it" made me actually cry laughing
Lol didn't even notice, thanks, haha :D
Glad i'm not the only one that noticed! surprised Tyranth let that one go.
Same haha
I was going to comment on this. I'm always glad when someone besides me is dyslexic.
@@RealSeanithan You can't be that bad; you got the joke, lol.
People really underestimate how strong chains and hardened steel is. Even huge bolt cutters, a tool designed to cut through that stuff, has a really difficult time cutting through, and often times just flat out won't be able to. A sword has almost no chance of cutting through a chain unless the chain steel is really weak and quite thin.
Yeah. The only things I can think of that really cut through chains with ease would be cutting discs on an angle grinder or a torch.
Both using completely different action to cut through with one using high velocity abrasion and the other outright melting through the chain links.
While that is true, it is a bit of a poor comparison. The forces for the cutters are different. You use consistent strength to choke through the chain (or bolt, or whatever), while with a sword, you're using explosive strength to smash through it.
The scissor shape of the cutters (and one that uses leverage to a much greater effect) is what allows you to cut through the chain with lesser force than with a sword, but that does not technically dismiss the swords ability to eat through it. The caveat is that the sword needs to be fair deal harder and probably requires consecutive, accurate strikes, which it is not very likely to withstand (due to the strength increase actually affecting it equally as much as the chain).
The difference in consistent strength and explosive strength is quite easy to test, by the way, for those that want to argue that 'if it's the same person doing it, there's no difference!". Take a bottle of water and cut a small hole in the cap. Squish it slowly and see how high the water will squirt. Then refill it to the starting level and punch it, see how much it squirts again. The punch will make small amount of it squirt, but it will squirt higher.
That's why doors are being 'kicked down', not 'pushed down'. The momentum adds extra force and the energy is passed on more vigorously. On the flip side, it's short-lived, which is why you will swing a car that's out of fuel to start it moving, but you will push it once it does.
That's why I've often thought about improvised chain mail made of ordinary chain.
one thing to consider is that these are expensive tools you don't want to destroy. additinally you want them designed in a way that other people also don't destroy them accidentally. plus safety reasons.
compare that to a sword where none of the precautions is done. the sword will get destroyed but maybe the chain too.
Feels like for safety you gave the chain an advantage of being braced on a relatively soft object (compared to the chain) where it could dig into and rebound out of the brace, turning force into deformation of another object or breaking free of the brace.
I agree, in all the movies the chain is braced against stone.
@@darrinrebagliati5365 That's crazy to think about while doing a test like this. At that point *something* is going to give in and the stone block ain't going anywhere. I guess the amount force being put in is a big contributor to what might happen. Makes you wonder how much force would it take before either the sword breaks or the chain does and can it be replicated by a human.
If you are going to try chains again you should bolt the ends through an upright board then to a horizontal board at a 45 degree angle so that the wood can't absorb some of the force, plus it would simulate cutting through it more like you described at the beginning of the video.
I like the rating board at the end. Reminds me of classic top gear. Happy memories.
This video was very helpful for me. I have a chain breaking scene in my WIP book, only the character there was using a 1 handed war axe, and while he cut through one of his, and one other's chains, he did nearly wreck the blade in the process and couldn't break any of the other chains upon him or his chain enforced travel companion.
Shad the chain breaker
That sounds like a great name for a Sword
Magical of course.
@@barelyasurvivor1257sounds like a name for a giant rat to me for some reason 😂
Shad doesn’t *messer* round when it comes to Honshu blades
Well played. I love a good pun, but often makes a messer things or miss the timing.
"I can break these cuffs!"
"Thou canst not break those cuffs."
"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"
Major flashback to the YTMND days hahaha
This meme is old, outdated, and considered offensive in the modern day....
...I love it! Have a like! :D
genuine question here, as a german I wondered if its really historically called grossE Messer and not gross Messer. I am asking because grosse Messer would be plural in modern german, while gross Messer would be ONE great Knife
Look up Medieval German and find out. Languages change over time. EG: the present day English word "gay" means homosexual male, whereas even as late as the 1950s it meant "happy". Archaic terms like "in privy" are no longer used or grammatically correct, and instead we use "privacy" or "private", which were not worlds in medieval times and if you said that to a late era medieval person (notwithstanding the great vowel shift), he'd probably have no clue what the heck you're talking about.
At least German wiki )yes, yes) says "Großes Messer", which just means "big knife". that grosse Messer just seems to be the "foreigners adding an -e at the end of German words for no discernable reason" thing.
Langmesser is also a used term, whereas the twohanded version sometimes got called Kriegsmesser.
Ich glaube, dass es korrekt einfach „das grosse Messer“ heißt und im Englischen der Artikel wegfällt
For additional clarity/comparison/translations to non germans:
Grossmesser = Great knife,
GrossE Messer = GreatE knife (singular; bad grammar too)
Grosse Messer = Great knives (plural)
Correct way to add an "E" would be possible:
Das grosse Messer = That great sword (exact, singular)
Ein grosses Messer = A great sword (any, singular)
Same in plurals with added "E":
Diese grossen Messer = These great knives (exact, plural)
Die grossen messer = The great knives (any, plural)
Lastly "ss" is sometimes replaced by the character "ß" when it's after a vocal character. In case of "Grossmesser", the "ss" is followed by the vocal "o" and should usually be a "ß" character.
So correct would be "Großmesser", but for simplicity i didn't use that here. Also every native german knows what you mean, no matter if you use "ss" or "ß". The pronounciation is the same. The character "ß" has historical origin.
Source: I'm living in Germany my whole life, but i'm not a linguist or historian.
Edit: grammar lol
Alright, I think I'm gonna get one of those Honshu Messers for my lawncare work. I can definitely see myself chopping down tree limbs with that. My war on nature shall continue!!!
I don't understand why they didn't hang something from the chain. It wasn't really under tension how they did it, it was just unmoving
So happy to see the content being recommended to me as soon as it comes out ! I support on Patreon and always watch every single bts video, and I’m actually so happy to see so any people saying the same thing about video recommendations !
To better identify the latest damage you guys might want to use a quick very thin shot of spray paint after each hit. It would make it so that the newest damage is always the one with bare metal. You could also do colors for the different weapons you use in a test like this so that when you show the chain at the end all the Messer's strikes were in red and the other sword is blue for example.
marker..simple marker would be enough
If you make a second one, I think it would be good to test the chain(s) under tension, as well.
As a german "grosse messer" makes no sense.
It should either be "Großmesser", as one word meaning "Greatknife" essentially. Or "Großes Messer" which would mean "Great Knife" as two words.
Well, "big" would be a more fitting translation for "gross" but in english you'd call it "great", cause "Bigknife" doesn't really fit into english naming conventions I believe.
And for those wondering about that letter I'm using above. "ß" is just "ss" basically. A letter we use in german for a double s most of the time.
Double consonants like "ss" mean that the following vowel is pronounced short and quickly, while single consonants mean the vowel is supposed to be pronounced normally.
But just "s" is a very soft s sound, meanwhile "ss" is a very sharp hissing s sound. So we have "ss" and "ß", both being the sharp s sound, to differentiate at what speed to pronounce the vowel afterwards basically. "Ss" if the following vowel is short, "ß" if it's long.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
EDIT:
I brainfarted when I made this comment about one thing. "grosse messer" still makes sense in certain grammatical contexts. When you're talking about it, saying "The big knife over there." for example, you'd say "Das große messer da drüben." So, "grosse messer" has it's place in german grammar, I just found it weird in the title since it would need "the" or "das" in front for it to sound right.
And since "grosse" is a word where the vowel "o" is said normally, not in a fast way, it should be "ß", not "ss".
So "Große Messer".
Das ß ist ein sz kein ss, bei einem langen s Laut wird immernoch ß benutzt, von daher ist Grosses Messer auch totaler Unfug, es müsste das Große Messer geschrieben werden.
Der Unterschied zwischen Großem und Langem Messer ist wohl die Säbelform des Großen Messers, während das Lange Messer gerade ist.
@@Havamal3The ss/sz distinction hasn't existed for over 800 years, at least not when used internally (as opposed to finally). This means that the age of the Landsknecht would never have used "groszes" as a spelling, as that spelling convention (and the underlying pronunciations it represented) would have been dead for roughly 200 years. Switzerland doesn't even use the ß at all, making "grosses Messer" correct.
Foreigners adding random es at the end isn't exactly weird...
@@JeffreyOller Landsknecht would have used Kriegsmesser the long sword type of range of these weapons if they would have used Messers.
They didn't to my knowledge use lange or große Messer at all since these type of weapons had already been replaced with either Dusack or Katzbalger when Landsknecht were a thing.
@@Havamal3 Good point. I suppose I was thinking of Kriegsmesser. My mistake. My point does remain, though, that many dielects did not find it necessary to denote the long o in "groß" and spelling it "gross" was not uncommon after the 13 century, to my understanding. Indeed that is the case today in Swiss German.
Loving all the content lately. Had some older vids come up in my feed too
you guys are awesome! Great video. Keep up the good work!
I also need more Fight sense Autopsy!
How did you watch it that fast?
@fockuff7290 I AM BETTER! lol, I was on UA-cam, and it came up. So I watch.
"The steck is dacked against it." - Shad
😂
I love the top gear style test board
“The pommels come off when you hit with these swords!”
That’s just the auto-End-Them-Rightly feature, guys. 😉
Hey lads, glad to see y’all are taking care of yourselves and putting on some good protective gear. Interesting results!
Yesterday night I went to sleep thinking about how you should make this video, today I woke up and saw this video amongst my recommended
Don't try this at home. Shad and Tyranth are classic chained, I mean trained.
I'd say no.
Even basic iron or low quality steel chain is difficult to cut, and the blade of swords really isn't designed for cutting metal.
You can pierce metal with a sword to extant. Like piercing chainmail or thin plate. But even as mighty chopper as that Messer probably won't cut chain.
I'd argue that it is very much plausible. Some later period polish sabres were tested on steel rods/sheets in terms of performance. IDK if this is completely accurate but a quick google search will return these things as part of tests they would "inflict" upon the blades:
a) thrusting through a metal sheet in freefall
b)cutting through a steel rod placed on a lead brace 5 times (edit: both of these things would have to result in no significant damage to the blade)
So if a 1920-1935 period steel COULD do that, there is no reason for modern steel to not be able to do similar things.
that pointy end of the hammer they have might have a good chance to brake a link (through expanding it) at least on not too good a chain
Chains generally have a lot of cut resistance. Supposedly this is the origins of why chainmail was made.
However, crushing forces may be able to get through or weaken a chain to fail! Much like how crushing blows could still harm the person in the chainmail.
If I had a guess a good wedge like a hatchet struck specifically towards weld points or starting force in between links might also provide the forces nessecary for a weaker chain to fail.
Going back to the Thaitsuki katana, I was thinking another possibility for the initial rolling in the testing could be that it was possibly TOO sharp and alignment was slightly off when it hit the pipe. Higher price end katanas tend to be made sharper with less "niku" or "meat" supporting the cutting edge that more budget katanas tend to have.
Honshumesser? Gesundheit!
Only at the start of the video, not had to make at least one pun after seeing some great ones in chat.
Seriously, though, I'm always glad to see an upload here, and this video subject especially.
It's an often used conceit that I don't think I'd expect to be terribly valid.
I'm looking forward to seeing what happens.
I should have waited to buy my swords. Had I known you'd be sponsored by them, I definitely would have.
Gives new meaning to breaking the chains that bind thee
Maybe one reason the choppy one got more damage was because it has more mass, but the edge angle doesn't compensate for... cutting chain?
I'd love to think that they are just slowing stealing these blue pool noodles from the trampoline next door😂
And “EVERYONE”
Who has had and is still working with you guys in the” BACKGROUND” ❤❤❤ keep it up!!! Shout out!!!!!!
You should try this again on the same type of chain with the S5 katana.
this is also confirms that chainmail armors are amazing. especially if the tiny chain links are made out of good quality steel and not a bare iron. that probably would even provide great concealed protection from knife attacks in these modern days.
“It’s the factory edge, we haven’t done anything to it.”
The shot right before: Them banging the edge against a log of wood.
As in they hadn't sharpened it before filming the video
It's no longer factory edge@@Koushakur
It's already been damagaed
I would have liked to see a test where the chain was stretched taut between two anchor points, or the chain was hanging with a very heavy weight on the end.
Even clamped to that beam, there was a great deal of give, when the clamps flew off and the chain had freedom to move.
Woot! Not notified (again) but at least I got here within minutes.
The sound of the blade whipping through the air in slow motion at 11:42 was super cool!
To be fair to the trope: It’s a steel sword v iron chain
Tonight: Shad breaks a chain, Tyranth bends a sword, and… dang it, they need a third guy again.
What happened to the new guy?
@@Blurnsit’s more likely he does behind the scenes work, as he doesn’t appear as comfortable in front of the camera as the others have.
Think like what Nathan was doing, editing and such
@@crusadernikolai1996 He could also just be part time.
11:38 that sound.😮
This channel sure got good. I have been watching since the very beginning. Good work!
Every time Tyranth says "fingies" I'm reminded that the British were right to ship their criminals to Australia.
At 1:02
Cutting chain with swords....
And you missed one of the oldest of the most famous ones....
Conan the Barbarian, use the new sword he found to cut the chain off his leg....
O_o Oof. Judging by these results, I'd imagine that'd do more damage to the leg than the chain...
16:32 "The steck is dacked against it" - Shad 2024 😂😂
That some Aussie accent, am I right
I like Tyranth’s perspective sometimes.
I can tell he likes to “Describe” think about the potential perspectives.
And I like Shad’s approach “EXCITEDLY” sometimes with visually demonstrating Tyrants points!
No pun intended 😂😂😂.
These two using that method as they do is “PERFECT”!!!.
Would love to see The Cold Steel Grosse Messer (not the man at arms one) the normal one should be tough as well would love to see how tough. Cool Video keep it up
I got the double edged sword from them a few years ago and that was a really nice sword in my opinion.
A section of tensioned chain link fence and 3-4 mm sheet steel, and a steel container puncture would make interesting stress tests
You aren't cutting through 3+ mm steel with any sword.
I think that the weight distribution on the Messer makes it hit with much more force than the tipical sword when swinged (especially near the tip), witch makes it more likely to have the edge damaged (and also deal more blunt damage). More energy is requiered to move a heavier object, hence it releases more enegery on impact (factor affected by good or bad balance).
The fact that the broadsword's blade survived this experiment with negligible damage is straight up insane.
If Hollywood has taught me anything it is that if you are held captive in chains your best option is to pick up a nearby rock and repeatedly hit the chain with it, even if the rock is crumbling to dust you should eventually free yourself.
Shad has learned the sunder chain feat.
Nicely done. Always enjoyable to see your guys' videos.
1. Thats a pretty thick chain
2. Medieval chains with worse material will probably be broken easier
3. With wood behind the chain, the wood will take a lot of the shock. A steel plate behind it or really strong tension will make it more possible
You could also argue depending on time period, the chains could have been made from wrought iron. Meaning they’d be more inclined to break against steel.
I used to dream about that Messer as a child.
It's the first one I've seen that is exactly the right dimensions.
Here is the usual full support for channel growth.
gotta love some shad
More examples: A gladiator chopping Tyrion's chain in Game of Thrones, Yoshida cutting the chain to release Wolverine, aliens in John Carter remove chains only this way...
Meanwhile the tough katana handles rocks flawlessly.
I think having the chain in an actual real world scenario (bound around whatever its trying to keep closed etc) will have an enormous impact on the testing due to how much differently the energy will be traveling through it vs it being braced like it is in this vid.
7:46 Tyranth tries to save Shad by saying the edge is factory, but then finds out that it's sharp and Shad is just bad at this.
Graetings to you as well, shad.
I love how y’all are trying to compliment the United cutlery Honshu line, and then are like: on this one the pommel broke off, on this other one it did as well. This one bent pretty badly, and got turned into a serrated blade by chain.
Well, to be fair, Shad is the one trying to compliment the Honshu swords. Tyranth has been consistently very critical of them.
@@shrootskyi815 I suppose Shad is the one paying for them. And Tyranth is the one having to swing them at full force against hard targets.
@@shrootskyi815 still not nearly as critical as he should be
@@pRahvi0 more likely (since he mentioned affiliate links) he gets paid, when people buy them, and doesn’t want to turn people off too much
@@KanekiKen-lm1dl Well, to me it seems like Tyranth wants to say more, but Shad shuts him down.
That sword though...
I'm so conflicted.
It's absolutely gorgeous! But the work required to make it good is a bit too much.
Grind in a distal taper, re-do the heat treatment (which you'd have to do after so much grinding anyways, in fact it's better to undo the hardening before you grind it, and apply it again afterwards) to make it harder and replace the "tacticool" grip with a proper handle.
And it'd have to be a new one because with that bend I'm not trusting it anymore unless you completely reforge it. Metal fatigue in your tang is simply not safe.
The 2004 king Arthur movie was very guilty of this. Excalibur cuts through several chains in that movie.
At least there it is an acknowledged magic sword
1:06 One that sticks with me is in the Inheritance cycle, third book where Eragon cuts a chain with his new sword. It was also on fire, but it was pointed out that it wasn’t necessary, since it’s a super sword
I love ALL Shadiversity videos!!!! ❤
Yes please do this again with different thicknesses of chains and chains of different materials
Hello! Just curious to both of your professional backgrounds? You both bring different insights that I find interesting
Whoever thought it would be cool to put the red border around the camera is awesome!!!
First weapon for this Bout I’ve no doubt will excite you!!!
The Hunting Sword!!
Love it!!! Sorry had to go with a “Kingdom Come Deliverance” Reference ❤❤❤
I think the chains depicted in most cases in media where medieval, probably made from some softer iron, not really comparable to the steel chains we have today, I can see how a tempered steel sword would make it through with some damage.
"You cannot save those swords, Shad, but you can save me!"
I would think if the chain was under more stress, like holding up a lot of weight. That the sword should be able to cut through it easier. Another Great video guys 👍🏻
I remember watching I think one of the Mummy movies as a kid and somebody cut through a chain with a sword and I remember thinking: "What the heck? That's stupid! A sword can't cut through a chain!" I've thought occasionally about it now and then over the years so now I finally have a video to tell me whether I was right or wrong!
fun fact- every channel who tries to chop chains doe so by placing the chain on soft woods-and i know it is not intentional :)
testing it on a hardwood perpendicular to grain or straight out duralumin plate and screw the bugger to the base so it cannot escape ? or on a softer iron base for more dramatic effect- look how badly the chain submerged into the metal kind of thing :) and then with a badass axe to finish it off.....
but honestly- i feel a slight pang i my chest when you do these unholy things to the swords...might be how guilty pleasure feels...
testing multiple chains would be cool to see. would be interesting also to maybe try a setup with the chain hanging with a weight attached putting it under tension to stop it flopping and twisting as much. Also, might be worth test against the wood but also a stone wall as a lot of the energy is going into the tree/wood and cushioning the blow (imagine a blacksmith trying to work on a tree stump rather than an anvil). so i'm picturing a softer/older style chain hanging under tension against a castle wall like it was holding up a portcullis, a chandelier or something
Would you guys be able to test some axes to cut a chain - that may be more able to do so???
Also, I may be wrong, but I've split a lot of wood in my time, and the angle the sword hits seems like your hands are below the chain. When splitting wood, the force is drastically different when the head of the axe at the same height of your hands at the tkme of impact. Perhaps it's different wrong with swords? I want more tests!
When refering to HRC hardness. Iy doesnt go up linearlly. Each point goes up exponentially in hardness. So even 5 points is much harder. I have a knife and the blade is high in tungstun and the HRC is 67. And it is insanely hard. So hard that it can shatter like glass if i drop it on a hard flooring. But it keeps an edge for an incredibly long time.
Finally, I'm here on time!
Guys, a little research on how hard chains where during the time period of Robin Hood and then match that and cut it.
Best quote ever: "The steck is dacked against it."
Thanks Shad
In Prince Caspian I believe the Telmarine Soldier used an Axe to cut through the chain for the portcullis weight. But that is really cool to try with Swords! Also Big Fan!!
All you need in life is a good attitude and a knife
-Trueedge arts
As a mechanical engineer, I think tensioning the chain under considerable load would probably make it easier to cut, as it's already under stress trying to break it apart.
It might also keep it more firmly in place compared to that rather loose attachement you used in the last tests.
in the days of "robin Hood" the chain would have been iron not steel. the only steel that would have been available for that time period would have been crucible steel, which would have been super expensive, it would have been cheaper to make the chain out of silver than crucible steel.
After a certain thickness, the metallurgy doesn’t matter has much. We have extremely thick early jousting helmets that kings trusted their life with made out of basically iron
@@PJDAltamirus0425 but for jousting they wasn't using hardened steel tips on their lances. else there would have been a lot more kings in the succession.
A lot of "iron" IS low grade steel, just because the smelting process often puts a little carbon in. But even then, that steel has a different structure, more fibrous like wood, so that might make a difference in performance.
My guess, the Broadsword flexes more and therefore the impact energy isn't as bad as with the Messer. You could ust try if one scratches the other, then you wouuld know if one is softer. Also the Messer probably ggenerally has more energy on impact because it has more mass at the percussion point.
If the chain was under tension it'd be more likely to break I think.
before watching, I think one of the things that would make this that much harder is that the chains have a lot of give and flex. A lot of the energy would be absorbed before it was made taught enough to then begin to be sheared through....
Your supposed to break the chain with a single arrow :)
Loved this one.
Now cast a concrete pillar or maybe some bricks; cut it like the movie "Highlander"? Just an idle thought.
Roronoa Zoro says you just have to learn the right skill and then it's pretty easy! 😉
Definitely needs retesting with closer to a period correct chain. Maybe a local blacksmith and whip something up?