Thank you for sharing this with us. I knew the story of that war and the rain miracle but I learned there is also a christian version. Also the story about the Egyptian sorcerer I never heared. To be a stoic like Marc Aurel and being superstitious seems not to be a contrast. Imagine that Egyptian sorcerer praying for rain in tight germanic woods surrounded by tribal warriors beating their shields with their weapons and singing war chants like Tacitus described...
BTW Thank you for your kind response to my previous comments on lameness / leg injuries / kidnap / infertility. I'm sure I've come across many more similar coincidences in my reading over the decades and forgive me if I post them randomly as they occur should I remember them. I'm surprised, pleased and annoyed in equal measure that stuff I noticed and began to piece together as long ago as the late 1950s has had to wait until 2022 to find an outlet for my hypotheses, which are nowhere as unique as I believed them to be.
Thank you for continuing to watch my videos, and your last point is the reason I decided to teach online, as there is some fascinating mythology, and comparative mythology at that, and if it was known perhaps they’d be far less pseudo-science and odd theories out there.
Hi there. This is a great video. I'm in the process of making a video about the area in Slovakia where this event is hypothesized to have happened. Would you mind if I referred to/linked to this video in mine?
This is appended to the end of the First Apology of St Justin Martyr, and is supposedly a letter from Marcus Aurelius on this matter: "The Emperor Caesar Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, Germanicus, Parthicus, Sarmaticus, to the People of Rome, and to the sacred Senate greeting: I explained to you my grand design, and what advantages I gained on the confines of Germany, with much labour and suffering, in consequence of the circumstance that I was surrounded by the enemy; I myself being shut up in Carnuntum by seventy-four cohorts, nine miles off. And the enemy being at hand, the scouts pointed out to us, and our general Pompeianus showed us that there was close on us a mass of a mixed multitude of 977,000 men, which indeed we saw; and I was shut up by this vast host, having with me only a battalion composed of the first, tenth, double and marine legions. Having then examined my own position, and my host, with respect to the vast mass of barbarians and of the enemy, I quickly betook myself to prayer to the gods of my country. But being disregarded by them, I summoned those who among us go by the name of Christians. And having made inquiry, I discovered a great number and vast host of them, and raged against them, which was by no means becoming; for afterwards I learned their power. Wherefore they began the battle, not by preparing weapons, nor arms, nor bugles; for such preparation is hateful to them, on account of the God they bear about in their conscience. Therefore it is probable that those whom we suppose to be atheists, have God as their ruling power entrenched in their conscience. For having cast themselves on the ground, they prayed not only for me, but also for the whole army as it stood, that they might be delivered from the present thirst and famine. For during five days we had got no water, because there was none; for we were in the heart of Germany, and in the enemy’s territory. And simultaneously with their casting themselves on the ground, and praying to God (a God of whom I am ignorant), water poured from heaven, upon us most refreshingly cool, but upon the enemies of Rome a withering hail. And immediately we recognised the presence of God following on the prayer- a God unconquerable and indestructible. Founding upon this, then, let us pardon such as are Christians, lest they pray for and obtain such a weapon against ourselves. And I counsel that no such person be accused on the ground of his being a Christian. But if any one be found laying to the charge of a Christian that he is a Christian, I desire that it be made manifest that he who is accused as a Christian, and acknowledges that he is one, is accused of nothing else than only this, that he is a Christian; but that he who arraigns him be burned alive. And I further desire, that he who is entrusted with the government of the province shall not compel the Christian, who confesses and certifies such a matter, to retract; neither shall he commit him. And I desire that these things be confirmed by a decree of the Senate. And I command this my edict to be published in the Forum of Trajan, in order that it may be read. The prefect Vitrasius Pollio will see that it be transmitted to all the provinces round about, and that no one who wishes to make use of or to possess it be hindered from obtaining a copy from the document I now publish. " I'm curious as to your thoughts on it
I've been reading up on this myself. I am having a hard time finding sources that discuss the accuracy of this. It is particularly confusing as there were some rather bloody massacres of Christians after this battle during his reign. Like the martyrs of Lyon. That may have been a result of local governors but still a strange act after such a declaration.
Further to my comments of a couple of days ago regarding a common thread of lameness or leg injury standing for infertility, there is an alternative injury that also stands for infertility or the demise of a god / demi-god / king / leader / warrior which is a weapon-thrust to the lower abdomen. The immediate analogue (your word... I used the word ''cognate'' in my previous comment, knowing it applies to languages but using it in a metaphorical sense) immediate analogue that springs to mind is Jesus on the cross and the Spear of Longinus. Again my memory fails on specifics but I am fairly certain this is not the only mythological /folk tale example... worth a look? Regarding the injury / infertility aspect, and the putative effect on the injured king's lands, ''The Winter King'' is relevant here, I think and represents another common thread from time immemorial across mythologies / folk tales. Oh! And I just recalled, ref. leg injury the identical terminal weakness of both Achilles & Baldur... the heel, hardly a coincidence!
The abdomen is attack when fighting monsters quite a lot, but I’m not sure if there is any specific underlying cosmogony links to this very specific part of the body, it is more a tactically effect from fighting a specific way. Or that’s my interpretation of it.
i can't imagine anyone believing the christian version simply for the wellknown fact that aurelius and pretty much most of the emperors up until constantine were very anti-christian. it was seen as a zealous and supersticious cult, and even as atheistic.
I don't understand the "makes you wonder if Jesus was real or not" part, because I don't think that the Christian version making stuff up is something so outlandish. The one who wrote it was a devoid Christian believer, and, so, when he heard about the "rain miracle", he thought it was God who caused the rain. Then, he probably wondered why would God casually help out a Roman legion, especially in a time where Christians were persecuted, and the best explanation in his mind was "the soldiers were Christian".
When i was growing up i WANTED to believe christianity....until the age of reason....so...when i was....3...or 4. And why does theyre god ALWAYS NEED MONEY? He makes so many miracles...but...cant get a hang of...saving money??
Thank you for sharing this with us. I knew the story of that war and the rain miracle but I learned there is also a christian version. Also the story about the Egyptian sorcerer I never heared. To be a stoic like Marc Aurel and being superstitious seems not to be a contrast. Imagine that Egyptian sorcerer praying for rain in tight germanic woods surrounded by tribal warriors beating their shields with their weapons and singing war chants like Tacitus described...
One of my favorite channels
Thank you
Me too! I converted a coworker too.
Great video, we need to learn the truth. Looking forward to more videos like this👍
BTW Thank you for your kind response to my previous comments on lameness / leg injuries / kidnap / infertility. I'm sure I've come across many more similar coincidences in my reading over the decades and forgive me if I post them randomly as they occur should I remember them.
I'm surprised, pleased and annoyed in equal measure that stuff I noticed and began to piece together as long ago as the late 1950s has had to wait until 2022 to find an outlet for my hypotheses, which are nowhere as unique as I believed them to be.
Thank you for continuing to watch my videos, and your last point is the reason I decided to teach online, as there is some fascinating mythology, and comparative mythology at that, and if it was known perhaps they’d be far less pseudo-science and odd theories out there.
Thank you, these storytimes are great
Hi there. This is a great video. I'm in the process of making a video about the area in Slovakia where this event is hypothesized to have happened. Would you mind if I referred to/linked to this video in mine?
I’d be happy to, it is enabled for linking :)
I’ve been watching your vids for a few weeks now (subscribed too) and I just noticed your name! Don’t see too many Fielders.
Indeed, a rare bunch are we!
Good video and I am interested in seeing how this was done by other religions.
Happy Halloween from London. This is Tess McCaffery 🧙♀️✨️🙋♀️☯️
This is appended to the end of the First Apology of St Justin Martyr, and is supposedly a letter from Marcus Aurelius on this matter:
"The Emperor Caesar Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, Germanicus, Parthicus, Sarmaticus, to the People of Rome, and to the sacred Senate greeting:
I explained to you my grand design, and what advantages I gained on the confines of Germany, with much labour and suffering, in consequence
of the circumstance that I was surrounded by the enemy; I myself being shut up in Carnuntum by seventy-four cohorts, nine miles off. And the
enemy being at hand, the scouts pointed out to us, and our general Pompeianus showed us that there was close on us a mass of a mixed multitude
of 977,000 men, which indeed we saw; and I was shut up by this vast host, having with me only a battalion composed of the first, tenth, double
and marine legions. Having then examined my own position, and my host, with respect to the vast mass of barbarians and of the enemy, I quickly
betook myself to prayer to the gods of my country. But being disregarded by them, I summoned those who among us go by the name of Christians.
And having made inquiry, I discovered a great number and vast host of them, and raged against them, which was by no means becoming; for afterwards
I learned their power. Wherefore they began the battle, not by preparing weapons, nor arms, nor bugles; for such preparation is hateful to them, on
account of the God they bear about in their conscience. Therefore it is probable that those whom we suppose to be atheists, have God as their ruling
power entrenched in their conscience. For having cast themselves on the ground, they prayed not only for me, but also for the whole army as it stood,
that they might be delivered from the present thirst and famine. For during five days we had got no water, because there was none; for we were in the
heart of Germany, and in the enemy’s territory. And simultaneously with their casting themselves on the ground, and praying to God (a God of whom I am
ignorant), water poured from heaven, upon us most refreshingly cool, but upon the enemies of Rome a withering hail. And immediately we recognised the
presence of God following on the prayer- a God unconquerable and indestructible. Founding upon this, then, let us pardon such as are Christians, lest
they pray for and obtain such a weapon against ourselves. And I counsel that no such person be accused on the ground of his being a Christian. But if
any one be found laying to the charge of a Christian that he is a Christian, I desire that it be made manifest that he who is accused as a Christian,
and acknowledges that he is one, is accused of nothing else than only this, that he is a Christian; but that he who arraigns him be burned alive. And I
further desire, that he who is entrusted with the government of the province shall not compel the Christian, who confesses and certifies such a matter, to retract;
neither shall he commit him. And I desire that these things be confirmed by a decree of the Senate. And I command this my edict to be published in the Forum of Trajan,
in order that it may be read. The prefect Vitrasius Pollio will see that it be transmitted to all the provinces round about, and that no one who wishes to make use
of or to possess it be hindered from obtaining a copy from the document I now publish.
"
I'm curious as to your thoughts on it
I wasn't aware of that, but I will look into it. This is very interesting. Many thanks :)
@@Crecganford No problem
I've been reading up on this myself. I am having a hard time finding sources that discuss the accuracy of this. It is particularly confusing as there were some rather bloody massacres of Christians after this battle during his reign. Like the martyrs of Lyon. That may have been a result of local governors but still a strange act after such a declaration.
@@dannydrevo I can't remember all my sources but I'll try and find out and post them here
@@dannydrevothat situation in Lyon was during 177 the time of Marcomannic Wars so while he could’ve been there it’s also plausible he was on campaign
Further to my comments of a couple of days ago regarding a common thread of lameness or leg injury standing for infertility, there is an alternative injury that also stands for infertility or the demise of a god / demi-god / king / leader / warrior which is a weapon-thrust to the lower abdomen. The immediate analogue (your word... I used the word ''cognate'' in my previous comment, knowing it applies to languages but using it in a metaphorical sense) immediate analogue that springs to mind is Jesus on the cross and the Spear of Longinus. Again my memory fails on specifics but I am fairly certain this is not the only mythological /folk tale example... worth a look?
Regarding the injury / infertility aspect, and the putative effect on the injured king's lands, ''The Winter King'' is relevant here, I think and represents another common thread from time immemorial across mythologies / folk tales. Oh! And I just recalled, ref. leg injury the identical terminal weakness of both Achilles & Baldur... the heel, hardly a coincidence!
The abdomen is attack when fighting monsters quite a lot, but I’m not sure if there is any specific underlying cosmogony links to this very specific part of the body, it is more a tactically effect from fighting a specific way. Or that’s my interpretation of it.
Love this video. I'm catching up 😂
This was a joy to make, quite revealing.
thanks for explanation, learned something new.
i can't imagine anyone believing the christian version simply for the wellknown fact that aurelius and pretty much most of the emperors up until constantine were very anti-christian. it was seen as a zealous and supersticious cult, and even as atheistic.
I don't understand the "makes you wonder if Jesus was real or not" part, because I don't think that the Christian version making stuff up is something so outlandish. The one who wrote it was a devoid Christian believer, and, so, when he heard about the "rain miracle", he thought it was God who caused the rain. Then, he probably wondered why would God casually help out a Roman legion, especially in a time where Christians were persecuted, and the best explanation in his mind was "the soldiers were Christian".
millions of this kind of stories exists in islam wich most of are taken from iranian and mesopotamian methology
This was interesting because the lie happened within the lifetime of the event taking place.
When i was growing up i WANTED to believe christianity....until the age of reason....so...when i was....3...or 4. And why does theyre god ALWAYS NEED MONEY? He makes so many miracles...but...cant get a hang of...saving money??