You know Mexico also had 4-8-4 Locomotives which they also called Niagras. The class QR-1 to be exact, built in America for export, they look somewhat similar to the NYC Niagras apart from cosmetic differences and they burned oil. Today there are about 12 of them that survived all around Mexico and surprisingly there's even one at the New Hope & Ivyland Railroad, Ex-NdeM 3028 which I just recently found out. So there is a Niagra class engine in America but from a different country, not sure if it actually counts but whatever. I thought this would be an interesting fact to share.
The real irony,now,is that it took 50+ years,to get a diesel locomotive to a single unit 4000 to 6000 Horsepower standard! And the double irony,is that the latest models,use AC traction motors. Shades of the New Haven EP's,and Pennsy GG-1's,and history repeats! Thank you for that Niagara tribute,and Alco,did build well! Thank you 😇 😊!
@@oldninjarider Note,the DDA-40,was a twin engine machine,not a single engine! That point has to be examined,however,the Kestrel in Britain was legimately a nominal 4000 horsepower machine,built during the 1960's. It was never,however,put into production! Thank you,for your attention!! Thank you 😇 😊!
Hold on, there's something that I need to point out here: when the Niagaras were scrapped in 1956, Alfred Perlman was NOT the leader of New York Central (NYC) at that time; Robert R. Young was NYC's president that year, and Perlman didn't become the leader of NYC until two years later in 1958. This means that Young would've been in charge of scrapping the engines, not Perlman. Plus, I know darkness likes to roast Perlman a lot because of his anti-preservation stance (on steam, that is), but I think these jokes about Perlman are getting annoying.
The Niagras are my all time favorite class of steam locomotive. It was in my opinion the best mix between horsepower and beautifully simplistic design.
My favorite as well. I have many black and white, as well as color photographs of the Niagara 4-8-4 locomotives, hanging on the walls in my home. Plus, two HO scale replicas of them. The 6005 and the 6010.
Either the Hudsons or Niagaras are at top of my wish list for a new build in the US. Both iconic classes which would have had surviving members if they weren't NYC locomotives.
There's an FEF-3 #838 sitting in Cheyenne that's just used for parts. It would seem that would be a good starting point for a Niagara or another rolling FEF-3 but I don't think UPRR would take that on.
The Niagaras are my favorite steam locomotive of the New York Central! I wish for the new build NYC Niagara just like the PRR T1 trust, but if railfans wanted a new build NYC Hudson first, I don't blame those who wanted the new build Hudson, I blamed Al Pearlman for having both Niagaras and Hudsons scrapped!
@@Thomasthestreamliner Yes, You're probably right, my friend! honestly, it might take 15 years to build the Hudson as long as the new build PRR T1 5550. Wish there was a new shop for new build locomotives to be built soon.
I would like the New build NYC Niagara too. If several railfans wanted a new build NYC Hudson, I don't blame those who wanted the new build Hudson, I blame Al Pearlman that it'll be a long time to build a new build NYC Niagara.
When comparing the NYC Niagaras to the UPRR FEF-3s the Niagara was 50 tons lighter, rated at 110mph (not 120) and had 1000 drawbar horsepower more (6000) vs. the FEF-3 rated at 5000. Overall ALCO also made the Niagaras easier to maintain relatively speaking to the FEF-3s. The FEF-3s were rated at 120mph. It should also be noted that the S2-A "unicorn" 5500 Niagara should have been the model for the others because it was more powerful, had roller bearings on all its axles, used 15% less fuel and had higher boiler pressure. 5500 also did some amazing things. In 1946 NYC to Chicago in 16h45m a record at the time. In 1947 it hauled a 7000 ton train 60mph. In 1948 it towed a passenger train 100 miles on one ton of coal, a fuel efficiency record. At least 5500 should have been preserved but small-minded business economics tend to win out in companies.
Alfred is not going to get very far with a chainsaw. He either needs a cutoff machine with a disk that cuts steel, which Stihl does make, or an oxy/acetylene torch with cutting tip.
I agree! The Niagaras are my favorite steam locomotive of the New York Central! They're similar to Union Pacific's 844! I wish one or a few should have been preserved along with NYC Hudson! If a Niagara would have been preserved, it'll be like the Niagara and four of UP's FEF's in Existence just like Daylight 4449 and J Class 611 were both survived in Existence!
Hearing the Engineer beg for the Niagara's life was pretty sad. Way to tug on the heartstrings, Darkness. Jokes aside, Perlman was a brilliant railroader, and he got screwed over pretty hard. Maybe a video about him could be done sometime? If anything, it would get us more Alfred E.'s rampage skits, which area always welcome.
The rags on AP are by and for stupid people who do not know the available accurate history of this railroad and what happened and when. Even Robert R Young who was actually in charge during dieselization is not correctly by known history 'to blame'.
I wonder why people don’t make a new build of them. In this world anything is possible and I’d be all for resurrecting a fallen class of steam locomotive
If not the best ever, certainly very near the top! Truly beautiful and magnificent locomotives!! It's a terrible tragedy none were saved!! Great video!!
I have seen that History in the Dark has already has published a video which speaks about the history of the New York Chicago and Saint Louis Railroad NUMBER 765. Here is the link. ua-cam.com/video/cNoOBMLBIAs/v-deo.htmlsi=OlNcHgNi3aqjwyfx
Um, technically speaking, the N&W class J could compete and in many cases were better than the Niagaras or the E units. The only reason why they were retired was because of the lack of spare parts as manufacturers converted to diesel components.
Eh, that's debatable. A J class couldn't sustain high speed running like a Niagara, a Niagara needed less maintenance, etc. A J class also produces less tractive effort than a set of E8s with equivalent horsepower, although that applies to all steam locomotives
Yes Perlman was a complete asshole there is no reason why an organization the size of NYC could not afford to donate at least 6 Niagras and 6 Hudsons scattered along the system I am sure that their were many online communities that would have been glad to take one off their hands the scrap value of them would have been less than all of the corporate waste generated in less than one month starting on the Executive Floor. When NYC started selling retired Hudsons to Luria Bros Scrap they were receiving $10,077 each for them. As the Diesel Invasion continued scrap prices plummeted due to so many locos being dumped into the system at one time. By the late 50's you could probably by a large engine for $5000. Interesting point the CB&Q owned 13 Hudsons 5 still exist today.
@@animal16365 This. Is not a stock car race. Railroads designed their locomotives for their specific needs. In factor being how much money to their motive power department was allocated.
I was 6 years old the year these locomotives vanished. I lived in NJ, right next to the NYC/Erie Lackawanna/West Shore Line (4 or 5 sets of rails) that ran from NYC to Buffalo. I recall seeing a steam locomotive pass by the house some time around 1956, and I remember noticing it because, I believe, that most of trains on that line were diesels around that time. I think that the traffic there was a mix of passenger, freight and commuter trains, but I do not recall what the steam engine I saw was hauling. Were Niagras running regularly on those tracks around 1955 or 1956?
The Niagra's in the east were the monsters however everyone forgets about the War Baby 2900 class of 4-8-4's that due to Santa Fe only rating them at 85% of their HP at only 4600HP they actually had 5300HP at the drawbar. They had more Tractive Effort rated at 66K at their rated HP and remember that was only 85% of what they could do. So in actual TE they were around 75K and they were reliable for the Santa Fe. They routinely did Kansas City to LA over both sets of mainlines without being replaced during their careers. Hell their sisters the 5011's going off the Santa Fe only rating at 85% of HP and TE for published figures they had 5660 HP and 93K TE or in actual numbers 6500 and 107K TE so no wonder they could out pull the vaunted J1's of the Pennsy in OH.
please do a video on the porters steam loco the Japanese class d5, the Chinese QJ 2,10,2 or just exsamples of asian trains how do gear trains work something on saddle bolier and side tanks (like the big water boxes) tank engines double ended diesel trains what to do if the train stalls one talking about the different types of steam funnles and there uses, a video on steam locomotive combination breaks (steam and vacuum brakes) a short video on how a Armstrong turn table works what did train flagman do what did trains (mostly steam) do when going in tunnels, ive heard of gas masks or just useing a wet cloth, or did they bring in other engines like later on they used electric trains, or were there no bigv tunnels. evaluation of electric trains why are some trains wagion tops (the stream lining thing to boilers) railway terms abd slang one on the meaning of flag and lantern colors like green on rear engine means theres another one coming soon, the different types of cut offs/reversers/Johnson bar some are a big lever, some are a big valve wheel, and ive also seen some that are like rods, one exsample is train sim world 3 and im not sure where to find the other reverser and how much water do steam trains take usually, and how much would the crew drink
There was some reasoning behind the C-1a, they would've been a bit more optomized for continuous high speed running. As durable as the Niagara's were, there's a few instances of them shearing their rods at speed, which the T1's never actually experienced. Hell the S-2 had the same valve gear at the T1's and it threw its roods three seperate times over five years
He.. yea now tell me where I said where this is a perfect sells pitch for Stihl chain saws ...a would have this as a commercial around the world....👍👍👍
On my list of the finest steam engines of all time, the N&W Class J (611) tops the list, just edging out the NY Central Niagara. Perlman wanted the NY Central to be "modern" which to him meant erasing all history of steam on the NY Central, and that's why he was so rabid in his determination to scrap them. Ironically, he has been judged far more harshly for that decision than the NY Central ever would have been for using steam, especially when that was all that was available.
I love these locomotives my favorite beloved 4-8-4s out there but it sucks that there scrapped i really wish there is something we can be a Niagara trust or preserve two of them to keep New York Central alive just like Norfolk and Western and other railroads that saved and keep there steamers including the U.P Big Boys, SP 4449 Daylight, U.P FEFs, The Challengers, and even the ATSF steam locomotives. So why not the handsome, fast and strong Niagaras to be one of them but who knows maybe it will one year or another future. I might be getting the Lionel visionline Niagara so i can operates this badass and mighty machine back in history but as a model train
It's a true shame that all the NYC "Niagara" locomotives were scrapped and none of them were preserved for public display at a museum, the Niagara type was an impressive and unique class of 4-8-4 locomotive. The Niagara class had a high mounted headlight, smoke deflectors and a large 14 wheel tender which demonstrated it's unique appearance ; the NYC "Niagara" and "Hudson" type steam engines all ended up being scrapped which is unfortunate because these two classes were among the New York Central's most popular types of steam locomotives along with the 4-8-2 "Mohawk" type. Many people like the NYC Niagara and Hudson classes which is why at least one engine from both classes should have been preserved and saved for display.
Sorry, but Pearlman was trying to SAVE the railroad. If you don't recall, NYC had some financial troubles at this point. Just like all the NE RRs, RDG, PRR, LV, EL, etc. The industrial base in the NE was contracting worse than any other region in the US. He didn't succeed but at least he tried. Which would you rather have lost, the last Niagara and the last Hudson, or a profitable, prosperous, INDEPENDENT, New York Central.
'Internet' you tube historians have no concept of what the known, vetted and accurate history of dieselization on the NYCS actually was and is, so save your breath or thumbs. One moron and his libelous video is largely to blame for the foamer's avalanche of stupidity and vitriol aimed and AP who was not even in charge when these events occurred. Rather, he inherited a sinking ship right on the cusp of the 1958 recession. This man was a historically great man of railroading, and his brilliance casts a long shadow over the success of the UP today.
No, that would probably be either 8055, the Rio Turbio locomotives, or if you're just talking about the '40s and before either Argentina or 242.A.1. It has untapped potential to be, though.
Impressive stuff, thanks for spotlighting it. One query though: distance figures for New York to Chicago (as quoted by yourself) are measured in Wikipedia from Harmon NY rather than NYC - what was hauling the train south of Harmon? \m/
You know i wonder why so many people(Especially railfans or others loving the Railroads)just didnt buy one?(Niagara ok maybe not that interested)But a Hudson a streamlined one at that there were hundreds of Hudsons in Scrapyards a no one tried to buy one to save not even people like Nelson F Blout or Joshua Lionel others why were they so apathetic to the loss of all the Hudsons one of the most recognizable,iconic,fastest,most reliable,most culturally significant and period among the best trains ever.Why just why were these left with no one even attempting to save one...........?
@@fanofeverything30465 He wanted money he didnt care about preservation(That said it was possible to buy them from a scrapyard as hundreds lingered fro moths to years in scrapyards.........)If you offered to buy one for scrap price or more he would sell it he could care less if it was to be saved or scraped.
I think that you should check out the Philadelphia and reading railroad accident in 1921, and there was a head-on collision, and then there was a fire, and the wreck killed 27
For a brief moment I thought Lord Darkness had turned to crime. The Casual Criminalist channel has a thumbnail that is remarkably like our Good Lord. It turns out that it's about a Mr Joel Guy Jr. who murdered his parents in 2016. I guess that's what I'm watching next 😊😊❤😊😊
All the videos I see on this site are not clear at all. Is it my connection? Can I do anything to make them clearer? I like the material but the vids are poor. All the stills are clear. Just wondering. Thanks for any help.
I sure would love to watch more of your videos... If they showed up in my feed as actual videos, not as "premiere in 23 hours" all the time. Like hey, I wanna watch that video, but I don't get to. Not sure if there's anything you can do about this, but for some reason I only ever see premiere soon videos from you in my feed, rarely ever a video that's actually posted.
Someone should try and build a new Niagara class locomotive here in the UK we are building a new p2 class locomotive someone over there needs to build one Niagara this class needs to make a return
Easier said than done. The UK 🇬🇧 likes steam somewhat more than the USA, you’re a smaller more concentrated country with more rail fans who can travel to volunteer their labour to work on them, and you have more money 💷 for such projects. But we too can dream.
Thing is everything starts as a dream then they become reality if every steam locomotive fans over in the USA worked together they can build a new Niagara over here in the UK tornado was a dream but now it's here running on the rails in the UK the new p2 being built was someone's dream now it's being built so if everyone in the USA can get together they can build a Niagara
Makes me wonder why S-2a 5500 was taken out 4-5 years before the other Niagaras since it was more fuel efficient. Maintenance because of the Poppet valves?
nah, the best clearly are the Martens’sche Einheitsliliputlok (some build in 1925 and still running in their intended role up to this day!)... you people are just too easily impressed by size and power ;P
the niagara was one of this demons greatest of evil acts lol 13:23 the ghost of Mr Pearlman: YOU LIED TO ME HITD! YOU PROMISED YOU TELL OF MY GREATEST ACHIEVEMENTS! BUT NO!!!!!!!!! THERE SHE IS THE LAST NIAGARA! I WANT IT GONE, CUT TO SCRAP! HITD: why do i suddenly hear Doom 2016 and a chainsaw revving?
I love the Niagaras and J Classes as these 2 northerns, hell these 2 steam locos PROVED that they were literally BETTER then the lifeless boxes on wheels. and the J were also CHEAPER then diesels. But they won in the long run because for a lot of reasons, and i mean a lot of reasons. it wasn't just because they were cheaper. (which railroads proven some of them weren't cheaper then the steam engines they already had.) A lot of stuff played into steam engines being wiped off the rails, where as in other nations they still kept em and improved them as well. like the land down under and even japan running there last steam engine on the mainline in 1960s and the last steam engine in 1975 if i remember correctly. For the US and Britain, it was mostly egos, politics, and some just like the crazy nyc owner at the time. They cared more about there image, then the actual logic and workers cries and demands. Which open a whole new can of worms in the future.
You know Mexico also had 4-8-4 Locomotives which they also called Niagras. The class QR-1 to be exact, built in America for export, they look somewhat similar to the NYC Niagras apart from cosmetic differences and they burned oil. Today there are about 12 of them that survived all around Mexico and surprisingly there's even one at the New Hope & Ivyland Railroad, Ex-NdeM 3028 which I just recently found out. So there is a Niagra class engine in America but from a different country, not sure if it actually counts but whatever. I thought this would be an interesting fact to share.
Alfred: NOOOOO
@@marcleslac2413 Alfred: I WANT THAT STEAM ENGINE
The QR-1s were also made by Alco.
@@oldninjarider Yes both by Alco and Baldwin locomotive works
@@franky717-ux9rrcool information.
Tnx.
The real irony,now,is that it took 50+ years,to get a diesel locomotive to a single unit 4000 to 6000 Horsepower standard! And the double irony,is that the latest models,use AC traction motors. Shades of the New Haven EP's,and Pennsy GG-1's,and history repeats! Thank you for that Niagara tribute,and Alco,did build well! Thank you 😇 😊!
DDA40X anybody? 😁
@@oldninjarider Note,the DDA-40,was a twin engine machine,not a single engine! That point has to be examined,however,the Kestrel in Britain was legimately a nominal 4000 horsepower machine,built during the 1960's. It was never,however,put into production! Thank you,for your attention!! Thank you 😇 😊!
@@roberthuron9160 "single unit" yes, single prime mover? not so much. It's too bad we don't have class one's running the SD90MAC-Hs; that was a beast.
(Last Niagara exists.) Pearlman: "I WANT THAT STEAM ENGINE!!!!!!!!"
We all know hes gonna be in. If its a extinct nyc steam engine. THERE IS NO ESCAPE FROM ALFRED E. PERALMAN AND HIS CHAINSAW!
Worker: I haven't seen it boss. I swear
@@fanofeverything30465 (chainsaw noises getting louder.)
@@Ohiotrucker1 Pearlman: WHERE IS THAT LAST NIAGARA
Hold on, there's something that I need to point out here: when the Niagaras were scrapped in 1956, Alfred Perlman was NOT the leader of New York Central (NYC) at that time; Robert R. Young was NYC's president that year, and Perlman didn't become the leader of NYC until two years later in 1958. This means that Young would've been in charge of scrapping the engines, not Perlman.
Plus, I know darkness likes to roast Perlman a lot because of his anti-preservation stance (on steam, that is), but I think these jokes about Perlman are getting annoying.
The Niagras are my all time favorite class of steam locomotive. It was in my opinion the best mix between horsepower and beautifully simplistic design.
My favorite as well. I have many black and white, as well as color photographs of the Niagara 4-8-4 locomotives, hanging on the walls in my home. Plus, two HO scale replicas of them. The 6005 and the 6010.
Everyone saw the Perlman jokes a mile away. "I WANT THAT STEAM ENGINE!!!"
When a Nyc engine is on the list Or a Steam engine from a RR he worked on, we know who did it.
Either the Hudsons or Niagaras are at top of my wish list for a new build in the US.
Both iconic classes which would have had surviving members if they weren't NYC locomotives.
There's an FEF-3 #838 sitting in Cheyenne that's just used for parts. It would seem that would be a good starting point for a Niagara or another rolling FEF-3 but I don't think UPRR would take that on.
They'll build a replica of one
@@oldninjariderThey might
If a replica then it should be a Hudson for several reasons but basically for:More built,More significant,Milestone in Railroads,Iconic,etc.
They should rebuild an NYC Niagara instead of a shitsylavnia failroad T1
My grandpa told me about this locomotive when he used to work in new york central railroad and to be honest this is my favorite locomotive
The Niagaras are my favorite steam locomotive of the New York Central! I wish for the new build NYC Niagara just like the PRR T1 trust, but if railfans wanted a new build NYC Hudson first, I don't blame those who wanted the new build Hudson, I blamed Al Pearlman for having both Niagaras and Hudsons scrapped!
Maybe they will do the Niagara after the Hudson is completed
@@Thomasthestreamliner Yes, You're probably right, my friend! honestly, it might take 15 years to build the Hudson as long as the new build PRR T1 5550. Wish there was a new shop for new build locomotives to be built soon.
@@davidstrawn9272 It would be a possibility
Yeah that an that the presrvationist did not take action(Or rich people who admired steam like Nelson Blount didnt take action either).
If the type is extinct, build a new one. In the UK we built Tornado and a Gresley 2-8-2 is well advanced.
They're doing that with a PRR T1 4-4-4-4....check out the T1 Trust....
I would like the New build NYC Niagara too. If several railfans wanted a new build NYC Hudson, I don't blame those who wanted the new build Hudson, I blame Al Pearlman that it'll be a long time to build a new build NYC Niagara.
Easier said than done. The UK makes it look easy.
@@davidstrawn9272 As much as I like the Niagara, my choice for a rebuild would be the classic J1 Hudson.
These engines are my 2nd favorite NYC Steam Locomotives. I hope a new build society makes it a priority to build one.
I laughed so hard when Perlman said “DOLLAR!!! DOLLAR!!! DOLLARS!!!” LMAO!!!!🤣🤣🤣
When comparing the NYC Niagaras to the UPRR FEF-3s the Niagara was 50 tons lighter, rated at 110mph (not 120) and had 1000 drawbar horsepower more (6000) vs. the FEF-3 rated at 5000. Overall ALCO also made the Niagaras easier to maintain relatively speaking to the FEF-3s. The FEF-3s were rated at 120mph. It should also be noted that the S2-A "unicorn" 5500 Niagara should have been the model for the others because it was more powerful, had roller bearings on all its axles, used 15% less fuel and had higher boiler pressure. 5500 also did some amazing things. In 1946 NYC to Chicago in 16h45m a record at the time. In 1947 it hauled a 7000 ton train 60mph. In 1948 it towed a passenger train 100 miles on one ton of coal, a fuel efficiency record. At least 5500 should have been preserved but small-minded business economics tend to win out in companies.
I bet 25 bucks that there will be a Perlman joke in this video.
Update: I was correct, at 8:29
Hey I see you in the Railway Productions live streams 👋.
And here's the famous quote at 10:21
I feel like the next big newbuild people should focus on after the T-1 is a new Niagara. Numbered 5501
Me too!
Alfred is not going to get very far with a chainsaw. He either needs a cutoff machine with a disk that cuts steel, which Stihl does make, or an oxy/acetylene torch with cutting tip.
I think for NYC the 4-4-4-4 design would have been unnecessarily complicated. The 4-8-4 was such a superb machine already.
I REALLY like the design of the NYC Niagara.
It looks cool.
But it looks even cooler without the smoke deflectors, in my opinion.
A request for a sequel to this video: Please talk about the Hudsons especially the streamlined ones
It’s not fair that none of the Niagaras were saved while two Mohawks were, if you ask me.
Honestly we're lucky we still have those even
I agree! The Niagaras are my favorite steam locomotive of the New York Central! They're similar to Union Pacific's 844! I wish one or a few should have been preserved along with NYC Hudson! If a Niagara would have been preserved, it'll be like the Niagara and four of UP's FEF's in Existence just like Daylight 4449 and J Class 611 were both survived in Existence!
@@davidstrawn9272 I'm just glad we have at least 2 semi modern nyc engines left, realistically there shouldn't be any nyc steam in existence anymore
@@doge_sevensWhat if a Mohawk was restored to operation
@@TrainLover-wt9ix would be cool
Can't wait my favorite steamie! Move over big boy here comes the Niagra!!!
Hearing the Engineer beg for the Niagara's life was pretty sad. Way to tug on the heartstrings, Darkness.
Jokes aside, Perlman was a brilliant railroader, and he got screwed over pretty hard. Maybe a video about him could be done sometime? If anything, it would get us more Alfred E.'s rampage skits, which area always welcome.
The rags on AP are by and for stupid people who do not know the available accurate history of this railroad and what happened and when. Even Robert R Young who was actually in charge during dieselization is not correctly by known history 'to blame'.
Awesome presentation !
I wonder why people don’t make a new build of them. In this world anything is possible and I’d be all for resurrecting a fallen class of steam locomotive
Anything is possible… with money that is! 💵 💵 💵
If not the best ever, certainly very near the top! Truly beautiful and magnificent locomotives!! It's a terrible tragedy none were saved!! Great video!!
I really wish at least 1 of these locomotives were preserved
Any chance of you doing videos specifically on NKP 765, PM 1225 & C&O 614?
I have seen that History in the Dark has already has published a video which speaks about the history of the New York Chicago and Saint Louis Railroad NUMBER 765. Here is the link.
ua-cam.com/video/cNoOBMLBIAs/v-deo.htmlsi=OlNcHgNi3aqjwyfx
Um, technically speaking, the N&W class J could compete and in many cases were better than the Niagaras or the E units. The only reason why they were retired was because of the lack of spare parts as manufacturers converted to diesel components.
The N&W J locomotives were the most powerful 4-8-4s ever built, but the NYC Niagaras were impressive, as well.
Eh, that's debatable. A J class couldn't sustain high speed running like a Niagara, a Niagara needed less maintenance, etc. A J class also produces less tractive effort than a set of E8s with equivalent horsepower, although that applies to all steam locomotives
Yes Perlman was a complete asshole there is no reason why an organization the size of NYC could not afford to donate at least 6 Niagras and 6 Hudsons scattered along the system I am sure that their were many online communities that would have been glad to take one off their hands the scrap value of them would have been less than all of the corporate waste generated in less than one month starting on the Executive Floor. When NYC started selling retired Hudsons to Luria Bros Scrap they were receiving $10,077 each for them. As the Diesel Invasion continued scrap prices plummeted due to so many locos being dumped into the system at one time. By the late 50's you could probably by a large engine for $5000. Interesting point the CB&Q owned 13 Hudsons 5 still exist today.
Could you do a video of a N&W J class vs New York Central Niagara
A J couldn't run on the NYC because of clearance restrictions.
@williamclarke4510
I'm not talking about either running on the others tracks. But a comparison. Which locomotive was the best. The J or the Niagara
@@animal16365 This. Is not a stock car race. Railroads designed their locomotives for their specific needs. In factor being how much money to their motive power department was allocated.
Lol i love the fact that the I WANT THAT LAST STEAM ENGINE gag is still going XD
I was 6 years old the year these locomotives vanished. I lived in NJ, right next to the NYC/Erie Lackawanna/West Shore Line (4 or 5 sets of rails) that ran from NYC to Buffalo. I recall seeing a steam locomotive pass by the house some time around 1956, and I remember noticing it because, I believe, that most of trains on that line were diesels around that time. I think that the traffic there was a mix of passenger, freight and commuter trains, but I do not recall what the steam engine I saw was hauling. Were Niagras running regularly on those tracks around 1955 or 1956?
The Niagra's in the east were the monsters however everyone forgets about the War Baby 2900 class of 4-8-4's that due to Santa Fe only rating them at 85% of their HP at only 4600HP they actually had 5300HP at the drawbar. They had more Tractive Effort rated at 66K at their rated HP and remember that was only 85% of what they could do. So in actual TE they were around 75K and they were reliable for the Santa Fe. They routinely did Kansas City to LA over both sets of mainlines without being replaced during their careers. Hell their sisters the 5011's going off the Santa Fe only rating at 85% of HP and TE for published figures they had 5660 HP and 93K TE or in actual numbers 6500 and 107K TE so no wonder they could out pull the vaunted J1's of the Pennsy in OH.
The Santa Fe 4-8-4s and 2-10-4s certainly were extremely impressive locomotives. . .
please do a video on
the porters steam loco
the Japanese class d5,
the Chinese QJ 2,10,2
or just exsamples of asian trains
how do gear trains work
something on saddle bolier and side tanks (like the big water boxes) tank engines
double ended diesel trains
what to do if the train stalls
one talking about the different types of steam funnles and there uses,
a video on steam locomotive combination breaks (steam and vacuum brakes)
a short video on how a Armstrong turn table works
what did train flagman do
what did trains (mostly steam) do when going in tunnels, ive heard of gas masks or just useing a wet cloth, or did they bring in other engines like later on they used electric trains, or were there no bigv tunnels.
evaluation of electric trains
why are some trains wagion tops (the stream lining thing to boilers)
railway terms abd slang
one on the meaning of flag and lantern colors like green on rear engine means theres another one coming soon,
the different types of cut offs/reversers/Johnson bar
some are a big lever, some are a big valve wheel, and ive also seen some that are like rods, one exsample is train sim world 3 and im not sure where to find the other reverser
and how much water do steam trains take usually, and how much would the crew drink
Seeing as China still uses steam en masse.
ONE-HUNDRED AND TWENTY MILES PER HOUR WITHOUT STREAMLINING?!
Note to self: Add NYCS Niagara to list of favorite locomotives.
With enough power at the rail, it’s not a problem. A lot of streamlined locos had it for cosmetic purposes in any case.
By far my favourite big Choo-choo from America
Asbestos is reasonable safe provided it doesn't get damaged or when damaged that it isn't disturbed.
"I WANT THAT STEAM ENGINE!"
At 11:54 that one of the P&LE Berkshires, not an NYC Niagara !!!
Alfred Pearlman gag never gets old
Your right, there always good. 👍
There was some reasoning behind the C-1a, they would've been a bit more optomized for continuous high speed running. As durable as the Niagara's were, there's a few instances of them shearing their rods at speed, which the T1's never actually experienced. Hell the S-2 had the same valve gear at the T1's and it threw its roods three seperate times over five years
Dang, I didn't know that about the Niagaras
Mexico also named their 4-8-4’s Niagara’s and a lot are preserved.
He.. yea now tell me where I said where this is a perfect sells pitch for Stihl chain saws ...a would have this as a commercial around the world....👍👍👍
On my list of the finest steam engines of all time, the N&W Class J (611) tops the list, just edging out the NY Central Niagara.
Perlman wanted the NY Central to be "modern" which to him meant erasing all history of steam on the NY Central, and that's why he was so rabid in his determination to scrap them. Ironically, he has been judged far more harshly for that decision than the NY Central ever would have been for using steam, especially when that was all that was available.
I love these locomotives my favorite beloved 4-8-4s out there but it sucks that there scrapped i really wish there is something we can be a Niagara trust or preserve two of them to keep New York Central alive just like Norfolk and Western and other railroads that saved and keep there steamers including the U.P Big Boys, SP 4449 Daylight, U.P FEFs, The Challengers, and even the ATSF steam locomotives. So why not the handsome, fast and strong Niagaras to be one of them but who knows maybe it will one year or another future. I might be getting the Lionel visionline Niagara so i can operates this badass and mighty machine back in history but as a model train
It's a true shame that all the NYC "Niagara" locomotives were scrapped and none of them were preserved for public display at a museum, the Niagara type was an impressive and unique class of 4-8-4 locomotive. The Niagara class had a high mounted headlight, smoke deflectors and a large 14 wheel tender which demonstrated it's unique appearance ; the NYC "Niagara" and "Hudson" type steam engines all ended up being scrapped which is unfortunate because these two classes were among the New York Central's most popular types of steam locomotives along with the 4-8-2 "Mohawk" type. Many people like the NYC Niagara and Hudson classes which is why at least one engine from both classes should have been preserved and saved for display.
Sorry, but Pearlman was trying to SAVE the railroad. If you don't recall, NYC had some financial troubles at this point. Just like all the NE RRs, RDG, PRR, LV, EL, etc. The industrial base in the NE was contracting worse than any other region in the US. He didn't succeed but at least he tried. Which would you rather have lost, the last Niagara and the last Hudson, or a profitable, prosperous, INDEPENDENT, New York Central.
'Internet' you tube historians have no concept of what the known, vetted and accurate history of dieselization on the NYCS actually was and is, so save your breath or thumbs. One moron and his libelous video is largely to blame for the foamer's avalanche of stupidity and vitriol aimed and AP who was not even in charge when these events occurred. Rather, he inherited a sinking ship right on the cusp of the 1958 recession. This man was a historically great man of railroading, and his brilliance casts a long shadow over the success of the UP today.
No, that would probably be either 8055, the Rio Turbio locomotives, or if you're just talking about the '40s and before either Argentina or 242.A.1. It has untapped potential to be, though.
Impressive stuff, thanks for spotlighting it. One query though: distance figures for New York to Chicago (as quoted by yourself) are measured in Wikipedia from Harmon NY rather than NYC - what was hauling the train south of Harmon? \m/
Electric engines pulled the passenger trains out of NYC to Harmon, in an effort to keep skies clear of steam locomotive smoke in and around NYC.
And now it is EMUs or dual-modes running into Grand Central, as well as pure electric locomotives into the Penn Station tracks.
So if you did a separate video about the Niagaras the. I’m guessing in future you’re going to do a video about the Hudson’s, am I right?
You know i wonder why so many people(Especially railfans or others loving the Railroads)just didnt buy one?(Niagara ok maybe not that interested)But a Hudson a streamlined one at that there were hundreds of Hudsons in Scrapyards a no one tried to buy one to save not even people like Nelson F Blout or Joshua Lionel others why were they so apathetic to the loss of all the Hudsons one of the most recognizable,iconic,fastest,most reliable,most culturally significant and period among the best trains ever.Why just why were these left with no one even attempting to save one...........?
If one of these people you mentioned knew what Perlman was doing he may have posed as a scrapper and brought a Hudson
@@fanofeverything30465 He wanted money he didnt care about preservation(That said it was possible to buy them from a scrapyard as hundreds lingered fro moths to years in scrapyards.........)If you offered to buy one for scrap price or more he would sell it he could care less if it was to be saved or scraped.
@@vaclavmacgregor2464 Nelson F Blout or Joshua Lionel could have offered to buy one for scrap price then
It's more complicated than that
For starters real preservation in American didn't really kick off until the 1950s
8:29 here we go again!
Niagara getting scrapped
NYC fans: Nooo!
N de M fans: tu cálmate.
Never thought to see the new york central niagaras to have there spotlight video
I think after we finally get done putting the new t1 together.
The next American locomotive build project should either be a Hudson or Niagara.
I think that you should check out the Philadelphia and reading railroad accident in 1921, and there was a head-on collision, and then there was a fire, and the wreck killed 27
Yes. No contest.
For a brief moment I thought Lord Darkness had turned to crime. The Casual Criminalist channel has a thumbnail that is remarkably like our Good Lord. It turns out that it's about a Mr Joel Guy Jr. who murdered his parents in 2016.
I guess that's what I'm watching next 😊😊❤😊😊
Queue Henry sad theme
Yes.
No, they're overrated, but I won't deny that they were still fantastic and were New York Central's best steam locomotive in terms of performance.
Then you have to agree that the Pennsy dueplex are overrated as well.
@@gamerfan8445 Which one? S1? T1? Or Q2?
And the big boys
Cuz frankly, I find the Q2 overrated
@@09JDCTrainMan all except for the S1
All the videos I see on this site are not clear at all. Is it my connection? Can I do anything to make them clearer? I like the material but the vids are poor. All the stills are clear. Just wondering. Thanks for any help.
I sure would love to watch more of your videos... If they showed up in my feed as actual videos, not as "premiere in 23 hours" all the time. Like hey, I wanna watch that video, but I don't get to. Not sure if there's anything you can do about this, but for some reason I only ever see premiere soon videos from you in my feed, rarely ever a video that's actually posted.
I suppose I could just stop doing premieres and upload like a normal person.
@@HistoryintheDarkLove your videos a lot. ESPECIALLY LOVE THE PERLMAN JOKES!!! ❤️🤣❤️👍
@@HistoryintheDark seems reasonable. Do premieres even benefit the video at all analytics wise?
Someone should try and build a new Niagara class locomotive here in the UK we are building a new p2 class locomotive someone over there needs to build one Niagara this class needs to make a return
Easier said than done. The UK 🇬🇧 likes steam somewhat more than the USA, you’re a smaller more concentrated country with more rail fans who can travel to volunteer their labour to work on them, and you have more money 💷 for such projects.
But we too can dream.
Thing is everything starts as a dream then they become reality if every steam locomotive fans over in the USA worked together they can build a new Niagara over here in the UK tornado was a dream but now it's here running on the rails in the UK the new p2 being built was someone's dream now it's being built so if everyone in the USA can get together they can build a Niagara
Can you cover more bad cars / motorcycles and more tanks in the future?
Makes me wonder why S-2a 5500 was taken out 4-5 years before the other Niagaras since it was more fuel efficient. Maintenance because of the Poppet valves?
Probably. Poppet valves are known for being annoying for maintenance crews.
what if we turn NdeM 3028 into a NYC Niagra?
They had a good ten year run
Anyone else think we should get a video about Alfred Perlman (I want that Steam Engine!)
Yeah like a full biography on the man.
Did any railroad ever consider using oil instead of coal for their steam locomotives?
Santa Fe, Southern Pacific, Great Northern, Spokane, Portland & Seattle, Union Pacific (minus the Big Boys and some challengers during the steam era)
You forgot the ladies pulling the Niagra.
0:24 slowly I turned...
one of the best routines ever . . .
Why do we get so attached to souless machines? Thier extinction is actually upsetting
nah, the best clearly are the Martens’sche Einheitsliliputlok (some build in 1925 and still running in their intended role up to this day!)... you people are just too easily impressed by size and power ;P
10:21 The famous alfred E pearlman quote.
No steam domes? Doesn't sound respectable
I actually prefer Steam engines as males except for New Hope 40, CN 1533 & GTW 5629 in my universe
the niagara was one of this demons greatest of evil acts lol
13:23 the ghost of Mr Pearlman: YOU LIED TO ME HITD! YOU PROMISED YOU TELL OF MY GREATEST ACHIEVEMENTS! BUT NO!!!!!!!!! THERE SHE IS THE LAST NIAGARA! I WANT IT GONE, CUT TO SCRAP!
HITD: why do i suddenly hear Doom 2016 and a chainsaw revving?
You know. When i first saw those locomotives, i thought the were russian locomotives.
No south wales scrapyard, skill issue
CNW H/HR/H-1s were considerably better.
Please get me trainz driver 2 for Android
Will those scrap yards were probably owned by the railway
:(( I hate that depressing song. why why why!!!!!
This started out as a GREAT video until you made a TOTAL fool out of yourself by trying [ UNSUCCESSFULLY ] to be a comedian at 8:23 .
I love the Niagaras and J Classes as these 2 northerns, hell these 2 steam locos PROVED that they were literally BETTER then the lifeless boxes on wheels. and the J were also CHEAPER then diesels. But they won in the long run because for a lot of reasons, and i mean a lot of reasons. it wasn't just because they were cheaper. (which railroads proven some of them weren't cheaper then the steam engines they already had.) A lot of stuff played into steam engines being wiped off the rails, where as in other nations they still kept em and improved them as well. like the land down under and even japan running there last steam engine on the mainline in 1960s and the last steam engine in 1975 if i remember correctly.
For the US and Britain, it was mostly egos, politics, and some just like the crazy nyc owner at the time. They cared more about there image, then the actual logic and workers cries and demands. Which open a whole new can of worms in the future.