Hi, hello, how are you? Apparently some people still misunderstood the assignment and probably didn't listen to what I was saying so I will say it again: I'm not hating on people who use oakensoul builds legitimately. I even said that oakensoul is GOOD in the video. Just the people who use it to fake queue. I don't care if people fake queue normal, or base game veteran dungeons. It's the veteran DLC dungeons that brings me pain when I get a fake healer. You guys can play what you want, but if you are going to be subjecting others to your "tank with no taunt build", then maybe just be considerate of others, especially new players. We gotta collectively look out for the new players as a community and be nice to each other ❤
I agree Im a tank and cant stand fake tanks and Healers they ruin it for everyone dont let hate comments get to you cause they are the problem for not understanding your opinion.
Ummm... What does your video title say actually ? *OAKENSOUL "HEALERS" AND FAKE TANKS SUCK* But your not hating - WTF ? That's like saying I hate cheese but still eat pizza ? 😂If your trying to make reactionary content try not having a hypocritical title. Now I know your a legitimate crazy person !
@@sirlancealot2043 It's now gotten to the point where content creators(UA-camrs) say you don't need a healer to run xyz vet DLC HM. -Look we got the trifecta (with our perfectly optimized group) through the dungeon without a healer! -Well, good for you! But not a good example for others to follow.. Seems a lot like that now, people follow those doing the most amazing unobtainable stuff thinking they can do that too.. Then they(dps) queue in the finder as healer or tank..
Hi. A bit depressed these days, thanks for Asking. How are you? My Wife and i are just really fed up with all the negativity against oakensoul players. Maybe i missunderstood or missinterpreted what you said. We just really had some bad experiences, even had to end some friendships cause people belittled and bashed all my Wifes achievements and efforts just because shes using a oakensoul HA build. We cleared vKA HM and vMOL HM among other things and her "friends" kept belittling and bashing her to the point she wanted to stop playing.
I'm sorry to heat that. My intention was not dissing legitimate oakensoul builds, just people who seem to think they are an excuse to fake heal or tank because they have a heal in their build. Oakensoul builds can be used to complete so much content, so much so that you see groups getting trial trifectas with them. I'm sorry you and your wife have had to deal with toxic players, as someone who has traditionally played off meta classes for trials and being shoe-horned into playing what the group wants I can totally understand. Unless the group is a set roster, or has requirements for achievement or score pushing runs, I don't think people should be left out as long as they are good enough to complete the content. I hope you have a better day or night 😊
Amen! Fake tanks/healers make everything harder in dungeons. As a healer main, I often end up both healing AND tanking - not what I signed up for. 😢 Thanks for speaking up about this! Probably my biggest pain point in ESO.
I started out as a tank, but ran into to many toxic people in pug groups when I was trying to learn. I switched my role to DPS just to make my game experience better.
Thats my expierience as well. Tanking can be fun but running into super toxic peeps is crap. I gave up on tanking and running as heal every now and then with friends...I just try soloing the game or just play DPS. I feel you mate
Same problem as well. I just came back to give a second chance for the game. Sometimes when I played as a dps or tank, even doing everything ok, I was kicked out in the last boss. At that time, people where doing that just for trolling and that makes me have a bad experience with the game.
Oh, no! The abuse I took while learning was horrible. Tank dies => shit tank, fake tank etc.. The level of profanity spewed is insane. Healer probably knows it wasn't a tank issue, but keeps quiet as to not make it a healer issue..
The problem with dungeon ques is how fickle the player base is. It's not even a fake healer/tank issue anymore, it feels like in most dlc vet dungeons i'm in fall apart in the first pull if it doesn't go well. People immediately turn on each other then rage quit lol.
Its because most of people queued for random are there not to just play, but to complete the dungeon as fast as possible to get transmute stones. DLC dungeons take a lot more time to complete than vanilla ones, but since you can't quit and immediately start the search again you might as well give it a try. If you see that your group is definitely not going to complete the dungeon in reasonable amount of time than it is not worth staying. Transmute stones won't farm themselves.
@@VoidShepherd SunSpire doesn't have anything useful in current meta. That's the biggest problem of ESO actually: out of ~500 sets just a dozen or so is used.
@skipperg4436 We were running it to teach people and did a few rounds of snake framing for Perfected gear to help those that didn't have it fill thier sticker books,etc . A lot of people don't care about the meta honestly.
Fake tanks/healers have been turning me off of dungeons. I haven’t been doing pledges because of them. It’s not so bad when I’m the tank or healer myself, but when I wait 30+ minutes on my dps (which is usually my own Oakensoul sorc since I’m farming for other dps gear and just want to dps and not worry about tank/healer mechanics) only to get a fake support role… it makes me frustrated. Like idc what people do with their friends or guildies, but if you’re queuing for random vet dungeons or specific dlc vet dungeons, please queue for the proper role. Makes it easier and more enjoyable for the rest of us.
@@zombiejesus7445 Yeah. I'm in guilds. But no one wants to run the same content that I do or are available at the same time cause time zones are a thing.
That's your problem. Learn to survive and and get some sort of heal yourself. Don't feel entitled and that you must have heals. People go in as healing cos they do less damage. If you see a lower lvl player then lose some damage but survive with another ability. Lower damage Is better than no damage when you are dead
The issuse ultmately isn't oakensoul, or anything like that, but the fact that the reward system for doing a random normal is the same as a random veteran. Being that a majority of these 'fake tanks fake healers' can solo the dungeons on normal, and just want to get in and get out for their transmute farm, we should be looking at how ZOS structures their rewards. Right now, a random normal, can be completed sub-10min (in some cases sub-2min if its FG1). Thats 5 transmutes a day easily. Any other form of transmute farming is either a cloud rest/Aslyum farm (6+ people) and can take about 15min depending- and 10 transmutes weekly. Tales of Tribute is inconsistant. Vatershran and Maelstrom you have to leaderboard top 100 and wait till sunday. PVP you have to wait out till the end of campaign, or daily 5-transmutes if you get 1st or 2nd place. Pledges reward 2 keys but only 3 transmutes on veteran HM (which some of us can solo). So again, we should be looking at the transmute reward strucutre, not oakensoul builds or 'fake tanks fake healers', for the source of the problem.
Tanking isn't difficult for me, but it just stinks knowing I could out dps both dps combined. Same goes for healing. Why ever do the support role when most dps can't even pump out 40k on a trial dummy?
i played a heavy attack lghtning sorcerer from the beginning. It was a two bar build with mostly buffs on the second bar. Now i play the "same" build without the need of all the buffs and use the oakensoul ring. a sorcerer dps should never die because they have a lot of tools to stay alife. in every dungeon i go i act as an offheal because i know the problem with the fake healers and more often than not me and the tank finishing the fights while the "healer" and the other dps are knocked out (who jumps around in random groups with just 18k health?). It's not the oakensoul that keeps me alife, it's the build i am running which is a mix of 70% dps so between 40-50k damage and 30% survivability. Tanks need more damage - i mean 60-80% of a pure dps damage like a death knight in WOW - that would make me play a tank in ESO. Right now Tank builds are complete garbage outside of group content, that is why most people don't give a fu**
I think you're mixing up Oakensoul with the fake healer part. You can have a good dedicated Oakensoul healer. It is just a problem that people fake heal regardless if it is a Oakensoul HA sorc.
As a Healer/Tank main, i have a much bigger problem with fake dps. People who insist to use some 2 bar NB build with Metagear but dont do shit cause they constantly take vacations in AOE's or cant even use their metasets cause they cant weave. Id rather have a 50-80k Oakensoul DPS in a dungeon than a wannabe pro NB that dies to a single mob.
100%. Whether oakensoul is cheesy or not doesn't matter. The fact that you have to LA weave on trash servers to get good dps is just stupid. The barrier to entry is way too high unless you no life the game.
@@dagolf06 aoe trash set up rotations are slightly diffrent then say a single target rotation. The pirotization of particular dots or AOE skills make it so you can get more of that AOE damage out faster- and in some cases even skip spamibles depending on how fast the trash is dying (IE: normal level). The barrier isn't the LA but just learning when and how to use particular rotations and if you want to get even more effieceny, gear/weapon set up swaps if you want to say hot-key swap set ups (but generally unnessiary unless in a speed-run group set up). Oakensoul being a HA set up with a lighting staff means that HA at the end has a small spurt of damage that splashes out, and makes it an easier rotation for both single and AOE- depending if it's an oakensorc or any other build. Sometimes 1 or 2 moves to swap to add more AOE may be nessisary, but ultiamtely, just putting an AOE drop-dot down first is sufficent.
This makes no sense. It's the other way round. I as a tank had to do all the mechanics in vet Falkreath because I had TWO oakensorc dpses who held down their mouse button properly all the way till the enemy was "dead" but you have to get a synergy to bring to the cleanse area.. They just kept standing around doing nothing and the bosses just kept spawning over and over.. Of course they "killed" them every time with their high dps mouse button. So I took all the synergies myself and roll dodged to the cleanse areas.. Killing the big boss was of course not a problem, since they knew how to hold down the mouse button. Then comes next problem.. They have to cleanse corpses to stop us from dying.. Again, great DPS but no cleansing. After dying a few times healer started to understand the cleansing part and we made it. Next we have of course the bull.. I hit HM, we killed everything nicely and reduce his health, but then we have the problem with hiding behind the pillars.. Healer knew it and survived, dps all died(they didn't even try to get behind a pillar). Healer spends all his time getting dps up until the next wipe( of the dps) comes.. At least they didn't stand behind pillars, so me and healer had those to ourselves. Such a waste of time, when you can have dps with less damage who actually know mechanics.
I agree with you. People will fake tank or heal regardless of gear. Oakensoul has nothing to do with it. At least a crappy player will do more damage with it. When I tank I would rather an oakensoul doing damage rather than holding a boss for 10 minutes while a 2 bar 15k dps tries to kill it. I know this is about fake support roles but it seemed like an opportunity to take a shot at oakensoul. If you do enough damage to complete the content and don't die alk the time I don't care what gear you use. Thanks for the vid.
I fully agree with you in that people Q for roles they have NO BUSINESS playing. They don't have the gear, skills or the attentiveness to play those roles. I am SICK of people Qing as tank with 22k-26k HP and all DPS gear. I'm sick of healing them, I'm sick of dealing with their BS at all. They die on the first boss and then leave everyone waiting for another tank. It's complete BS. I don't run across that many "fake healers" because the game in general really doesn't need much healing, a GOOD healer is really more for buffs and to toss some heals when someone screws up. They rarely need to be DEPENDED on for a run to go smoothly. If that's the case you have a shit tank and/or shit DPS that either don't know the fight or aren't specd right or both. It all comes down to there being good players and shit players. It will ALWAYS be this way because different people have different levels they get into the game. There is nothing you can do about that. BUT I wish there was something we could do about "fake tanks" at the least. I don't know what that would look like though or how you could implement it. Maybe a minimum armor value and/or HP value in order to Q as a tank? Having a taunt on their bar? How would you work that out? Healers would be even harder because it's just spell power basically. Maybe a +healing % cutoff, certain skills, or resto staff only?? Again just really hard to enforce it. I wish there was a way though because I'm tired of fake tanks for sure. Not sure why oakensoul is even mentioned in this honestly, it does seem like you have issues with it in general. Calling oakensoul users bad and lazy in general does not help your point that you have no issue with Oakensoul. Quite the opposite lol. I heal and tank just find with oakensoul builds through all the content in the game. The issue is not oakensoul its with people that Q for things they aren't specd for AT ALL. Healers that have no heals or very few heals wearing DPS gear and tanks that have no tank gear and 22k HP are the problem. These have nothing to do with oakensoul. It has to do with stupid and selfish people. On my oakensoul tank I can tank vet dungeons without any heals at all. I often times go with 3 dps and me tanking with my friends. They don't die. They don't stand in shit. They have a self heal as well if they need it. 3 DPS and a good tank is viable for most of the content in the game. It all comes down to the people, not the game. Why aren't you running with good people instead of random Qing for hard shit?? That's a question you should ask yourself. Get some friends lol. Its kinda funny that you think oakensoul builds are all easy and the players are lazy. That's a pretty broad stroke with that brush of yours. Try only using 5 skills and actually being good at the game. It's not THAT easy. Making a good build with only 5 skills takes proper planning of gear and skills. With your logic it could be argued that 2 bar builds are the easy ones because they get to use 10 skills and two different weapons. I don't see refreshing buffs on your back bar as being a god at the game or anything. You just prefer a more active rotation. You're literally just watching timers and hitting the button when the timer runs out. That's not groundbreaking rocket science. Being speced with proper gear, proper skills and having eyes and a brain to react to what's happening is what matters. Some people just don't have that. Some people are just casuals and don't look up what spec to use. Some people get all willy nilly with their Q and Q for things they shouldn't just to get a fast Q. It's something hard to get rid of because the issues are with THE PEOPLE, not the game. There will always be players that suck and players that don't with varying degrees in between. There always has been and always will be in MMOs. In the end people should always play what makes them happy without being dumped on for using 1 bar or 2 as long as they can do the task at hand. Oakensoul is the reason a lot of people are even still playing this game. A lot of people don't like bar swapping builds at all, especially people coming from other games. Some people have disabilities and can't constantly bar swap as well. Should they just not play?? When you shit on oakensoul builds you are just gatekeeping and lowering the amount of people that want to play the game. Who wants to play when you just get dumped on for no reason? The game will die without diversity for a larger player base. Is that what you really want? I doubt it.
Yeah I have oak sorc cus I just started. The lack of healers and tanks ran me to it. Dying so fast in a vet dungeon and never getting to try. If I can’t find a healer I’ll do it myself with the matriarch. It stinks but what else can I do?
As someone who's been playing for about a year and mains as a healer (complete with all those sets.... ugh) 100% on all of this. I hate the DPS queue, but not enough to tarnish some other player's experience just to skip the wait. Fake role queuing is just a selfish move.
Design issue for sure. When I que as a legit tank group dps is so low a companion can do more damage then them. Likewise, when I fake tank as a dps I end up doing like 70-80% of the groups dps and we clear pretty fast.
I think it would help if Zos would add some sort of classification system to dungeons that give you a quick rundown on what to expect from a dungeon. For example a 1 star dungeon would be something like normal Fungal Grotto I (2 star for vet) and the 1 star tool tip would read "Easy for all players." A 3 star dungeon would be something like normal Fungal Grotto II (4 star vet) and the tool tip would read "May have a 1-shot mechanic or other mechanics requiring group participation. Great for new players trying to learn harder content." A 5 Star dungeon would be something like normal Cradle of Shadows and the tool tip for 5 stars would read "Will have multiple 1-shot mechanics or other mechanics requiring group participation. All players must know there role well. For experienced players only." Lastly a 5 gold star dungeon would be something like vet Cradle of Shadows or vet Scalecaller Peak. The 5 gold star tool tip would read "Only for those seeking a true challenge. Will have multiple 1-shot mechanics and mechanics requiring total group participation. Players should have legendary quality gear and have complete confidence in the character/role they are playing. Voice chat recommended." That way new players could pick and chose what dungeons they want to try based off of the tool tip and the difficulty rating. They could also change the random dungeon list so it is "Random 1-3 Star Dungeon, Random 4-5 Star Dungeon, and lastly Random 5 Gold Star Dungeon. They higher star rating you pick the better the rewards for completing the random daily. Maybe 1 to 3 stars gives blue rewards, 4 and 5 gives purple and an undaunted key, and 5 gold stars would give legendary rewards and 3 undaunted keys.
People queue for random dungeons to farm transmute stones. This is THE root cause of the problem. You have endgame players mixed with noobs because of that. Endgame players are very annoyed that there are people who can't complete vanilla vet dungeons with 4 DD group in several minutes. And that there are people who don't know what they are doing in general. As for noobs I suspect they are also annoyed that there are people who run forward do skips and ignore all mechanics by just nuking everything. This is very unhealthy environment created by ZOS via transmute system.
I think a lot of it comes down to people not actually understanding what a tank and healer do in this game, they think "I have a heal so I'm a healer" or "I'm hard to kill so I'm a tank" but tanking and healing are really your secondary role, your real job is buffing and debuffing and this is rarely explained to new players and certainly not by the game itself.
I think it's actually a little worse than that and at least some of my experience is players genuinely seeming to simply "not know" basics. I've met healers that stand still and do absolutely nothing unless a player takes a chunk of damage and then they heal. I've also met tanks that did not realise they could taunt and were frantically trying to generate aggro... I don't care about buffing and debuffing in a pug, I care that a tank can taunt and has some survivability, a healer uses some HoTs and my DDs try to kill stuff and move out of AoEs (each being open to advice is a HUGE plus, of course, when things aren't going well). Beyond that, I honestly think people are expecting too much. There is nothing in the game that prepares new players for vet DLCs considering the majority are run through normals and base vets like they are nothing. If the experienced players aren't helping newer players at all they are only contributing to the problem imo, especially when they immediately resort to insults etc.
"Healers are for noobs" 8:27 Says the dude who needs to run a heavy attack build not realizing that ice reach is one of the more dificult dungeons that absolutely requires a healer. Absolutely zero self awareness
I agree with you mostly, non dlc vet pledges, daily normals, it doesn’t matter what role anyone is, but most people complaining about fake healers/tanks are the cp400 questers with a roleplay “build” just doing non dlc vet pledges. On the other hand people queuing for DLC dungeons at hella low cp doing 10k Dps is WASTING the actual tanks and healers time. (As tanks me and you understand this the most) only thing I can think of to help prevent fake tank/Dps/healers is having to clear at least 3 non dlc vet dungeons IN that role to be able to queue for DLC vet dungeons
I’m a healer when I do dungeons, and to be honest it’s not the fake tanks that annoy me so much (but some definitely do) it’s the selfish entitled attitude of some players. The tanks who bolt through the dungeon and leave everyone else behind annoys me no end. The DPS who run ahead and pull without the tank even getting a chance to do anything, and people who run with their merchant or banker out. I ask them very nicely to put the merch away, and most selfishly ignore the request. When people are dicks, I just leave. I’m a healer, I get straight in, so I don’t mind waiting for the cool down. Don’t even get me started on the DPS who are so bad I end up doing dps AND healing just so we can complete the run (and doing more dps than the actual dps!). I did smile when you said you wouldn’t be caught with a resto staff and won’t ever heal. I feel like that about tanking! 😂
Oh and sometimes I get a fake tank, and shitty dps, so I end up not only healing and dpsing, but tanking too because the fake tank can’t keep the boss off me!
Real healer here. I believe one of the reasons why healing is not enticing for many is the fact that in a such solo-oriented game like ESO the self-helas build in lots of DD setups together with low incoming damage in most of the early content makes healer role not very impactful. Oakensoul is exaggerating that problem by making DDs even more survivable. But even before it was introduced, all base game HMs could be done without healer with relative ease. So by doing this you're not learning much as a healer, because your actions (or lack thereof) have little to none consequences. And when you get to the content dangerous enough so you are needed, you struggle, because you didn't really have a decent learning curve before. And you get blamed for not knowing the stuff that you never had the opportunity to learn.
they should make the dungeon completion for tanks and healers different to the dps roles, so for example for a tank to get the daily dungeon reward, or key, or gear drops from the boss they have to taunt that boss an maintain at least 50% of the agro or something similar, healers need to of healed the dps's by a certain amount...etc this kind of mechanic would ensure fake tanks and healers would never benefit from doing so, and be forced to either queue as dps's or learn how to play tanks and healers so they could queue as them. i've been playing since launch and I tank main so i love tanking it's in my opinion the easiest role to learn and you feel like a badass going toe to toe with these massive dangerous bosses and shrugging these super powerful attacks. i also love healing as it too is pretty easy and it's nice to feel like the glue that's holding the whole party together. almost all my characters have a profficient alt tank or healer build so i can queue without waiting i don't know why people son't just do the same decent gear sets for tanks and healers are much more available from easier content and building a great tank or healer is much easier than a DPS at least in my experience.
that is a really good idea! i would definitely be on board with it. would make people play the objective in the dungeon. even if someone was still queuing as a 'tank' as a dps, they would still have to slot a taunt at least, so that's kinda half the role fulfilled
I can run inner fire on my stamina sorcerer and taunt the boss, survive the encounter, and do the highest DPS in most normals with such a set up- all without being a 'proper tank'. This will not fix the problem, but just challenge most transmute farmers wanting to get in and out faster. The only benefit the team would get is 1 synergery and me taunting the boss, which depending on which boss, I can just stand there and parse anyhow. However, the average skill of a player may come into question- as even some legit learning tanks can't manage 50% taunt up times, or are under the impression soft-agro is enough. Thankfully, between chain-taunts and ice staff built in taunt, and the future arcanist class-taunt this may change, but it won't change a tank's skill level without education, time and self-imrpovement.
@@OolongSnakeArt the 50% example was just that it could be as simple as applying taunt to each boss to attain the rewards as long as the the person who is tanking is taking some of the aggro so new players don't die in dungeons as often and people arn't as incentivised to fake queue that is all that is needed. we just need to make fake healing and fake tanking not worth it to those who do it, or make it more hassle than it's worth.
@@Azuraaaaaaaaa indeed as long as the person filling the tank role is pulliing the majority of the bosses agro they are doing the job the role is there for. which would at least be better than the current situation
Undaunted Taunt gives you DPS increase. Its not hard to tank as DPS you just have to slot taunt and a shield skill. And have Plague Doctor or Beekeaper set just in case you need extra hp for some more tough fights.
I never liked the word "fake" like I'm just tryin to have fun and get some gear that's for some reason locked behind a dungeon. I can kill dlc World Bosses solo, so I figured that I would have okay dps for Veteran dungeons. But apparently, that makes me a fake dps just because I don't have 12 hrs a day to grind the newest meta sets to deal 200k dps. If I could get dungeon sets from guild traders, I would, but the game wants me to play dungeons for it soo, If you want to hate me for being a causal, then do you idc. I try my best to stay in dungeon formation and deal with as much damage as my build can manage. If it's not enough for you Tough cookies just gonna have to deal with me until I get the gear I want. Which really wouldn't take long. There's not much dungeon stuff that I want.
This is probably the most reasonable comment I've read. ESO is a game. Games are meant to be fun. The moment a game is taken too seriously means it's not fun anymore.
My favorite character is my tank. I love my tank. I want to call my tank my main character. I love tanking and I am proud of my competency as a tank, my situational awareness, my build, etc. Personally, I don't really care about people having low dps. The reason I HATE tanking for randoms is the DPS that act like they're on skooma IRL. The problem in my book is that party etiquette is dead. Random parties make my job way harder than it has to be. Don't get me wrong, I get into a random Banished Cells or something, whatever, I get that I don't really need to be here. I drop into something like Vet DLC and DPS is running ahead and pulling everything, and I'm like, how did you get to be that high CP and act like this? I just get into way too many groups that make me want to bail and I don't like bailing so instead I end up just not playing my tank. Oh, and new content? Fuggetaboutit. I'll go in with my spouse and companions to learn the content. Doesn't matter if it's day 1 of the content, DPS acting like they snorted a line just before the que popped. I don't play a tank to be stressed out because people have no etiquette. I'm not trying to play at a snails pace either, I just don't want to act like we're doing some time trial. It bums me out. I love tanking but tanking for randoms is kind of miserable in my book. That's just how I feel about it.
The big issue on this, bigger than the faking itself, is the broken dungeon finder that won't find you a replacement for 15 minutes+. So if you get a fake tank in a vet dungeon, you got the option to make do with that one, kick him and only have 3 people for probably the remainder of the dungeon or you leave yourself and get a penalty for it. So, first step to solving this issue would be to fix the dungeon finder, else it's far to easy to get hold hostage by some idiot
I have 4 tanks. It's the best way to quickly queue and get those transmutes. I have certainly felt what others are saying regarding fake DPS at times during those really long boss fights.
i had one run that was really bad. i play main tank and ran with 3 strangers. during one heavy attack all three of my teammates died because the DDs didnt deal enough damage to kill the boss before that attack and where was the healer? at the front next to me getting killed. i had to somehow solo the boss because i didnt have the time to stay alive and revive my team.
To be fair, 1 tank/3 DPS is sometimes optimal if all are top tier players with good sustain and know the boss mechanics. Problem is, you can't trust PUGs when a lot of them are also fake DPS lol
Yeah sometimes I run 3 dps with my friends and I just put on Olo instead of a different set and we just burn the shit out of stuff. Obviously PUGs are not um... Capable of this
Imo you need a real tank for everything vet but you don’t need a healer for none dlc dungeons, if you have an off heal and you are most likely gonna be hitting more than both of the other dps combined queuing as a healer for a none dlc dungeon is preferable imo
I've noticed a lot of other mmos can't seem to make the tank role enjoyable so when I see a fake tank I get it but still get annoyed. That's why I try tank builds that are out of the ordinary like HTMs Ironblood vampire tank is my favorite
What about Alina (last boss in Wayrest Sewers 1), in vet having a fake tank can make it impossible since the back slash can insta kill dds...I, as proud healer, have vote kicked lots (even got vote kicked for calling them out in multiple ocasions)
I have a range of Tank/Dps or Healer/Dps characters that all started as primarily DPS toons. When I queue as either tank or healer I make it my primary focus when in the dungeon but I still clock pretty high dps for the team. Usually 30-50% of the teams damage. However, when I do this it's ONLY in normal dungeons. If I queue for vet, I just go full dps and wait. P.S. great content ;)
Healing with oakensoul is actually really enjoyable to me. The constant Empower buff makes essence drain's heal hit harder than my burst heal. It makes sustain no challenge at all while buffing my heals, making me tankier, and even boosting my dps for some extra fun factor.
Me and my son just do all dungeons by ourselves. For the vet dlc dungeons i run a templar tank and he runs a warden heavy attack with his bar full of heals. Lotus flower is Op, every time he completes a heavy attack we both get a heal (nice). We study the mechanics of each dlc vet dungeon. After we got it down pat we can run most with just 2 heavy attack builds no tank or healer needed. But yes fake tanks and heals suck when you expect them and get trash instead. Sometimes we will go into a trial with my tank and his Warden heavy attack by ourselves just to see how far we can get. We can get to the last boss on 1 or 2 but the DPS check kills us every time lol mechanics requiring a larger group stop us from exceeding too far in most trials. But if just two people could stand on the 12 pedestals and activate the next section we could go further into a lot of them lol non vet on the trials of course
On one occasion, I played as a full legit tank who contributed 35% of group’s DPS. It was the longest 1hr PUG dungeon. But everyone stayed till the end out of pure stubbornness.
Lol I've done this on several occasions with my hybrid DK imperial pve tank build for solo content. Still 35k+ HP, near 30k resistance, 30k+ DPS with sword and shield front bar, two hand back bar. I don't trust anyone that much in PUGs from dungeon finder so I cover my ass myself. I laugh when I see the combat metrics numbers randomly showing me putting put 50%+ of group dps some times. Then my regular non trial pve pure tank build... don't even need a healer 😂
Im a oakensoul necro tank 95 thousand hp mass hp regen high aggro and have carried people through some of the hardest dlc vet dungeons in game theres several viable oakensoul tank builds issue is you got people who are dps going in as tanks and healers so im a bit confused on this oaken isnt strictly dps
From my experience as a tank I keep getting stuck with dps going behind me instead of staying behind bosses legit running straight behind or infront of me and boss it's straight annoying
If your the pug queen, i must be the pug king all my dungeons are pug's. Ive seen fake everything, i just play as if im soloing. If the tank is good, i follow. I run oakensorc. Idont parse but in game i can crack 60k plus solo. Base game i normally solo. Vet dlc are etricky to pug. Xlnt vid cheers
You CAN play an oakensoul healer, and well. Sorc is not the class for it though, while the matriarch is a good punch heal, it's a one trick pony. Sorc just doesn't have the heal kit to support oakensoul healing. Warden is moderate, as you can heal with HA's with Lotus Blossom. Templars make great oakensoul healers though, with the heal kit templars have. Between warden/templar class heal kit, and the undaunted ball, you can do a great amount of healing as an oakensoul healer. As long as you are focused on healing and DPS secondary. I will typically only slot Wall of elements as a dps skill and dedicate the rest of my bar to healing/utility skills. I look at it this way. First, don't let anyone die. Once I accomplish that, it comes down do how do you contribute to the overall group DPS. Traditionally a healer contributes with group buffs. But if I can contribute more RAW DPS, than I could by buffing the group, then that's a net gain (again, keeping the group alive is a must). Break it down.
I agree! You can definitely make legitimate builds with oakensoul for healer, or pvp healing. Those people are not an issue, it's the fake ones that are 😂
@@Azuraaaaaaaaa I agree. I also hate fake tanking healing. Kind of with a passion. I main tank as well, and I hate when I'm not tanking and we have a fake tank that doesn't even slot a taunt and the boss bounces around or goes after a DPS that the runs around trying to get away from it dragging it all over the place. Absolutely terrible for DPS. If you're going to fake tank, at the very least slot a taunt and control your mob!
As someone who does tanking and healing on harder content this is an issue that needs approach from multiple directions to get resolved. I'm constantly matched with people don't know the mechanics, don't put in effort and are fake rolling. I'm also constantly blamed and my build is questioned if the group is failing. It took me so many queues of Graven Deep to get matched with people who knew the mechanics and could do it on vet (let alone hard mode).
@@kullinaama nah at high cp levels for a lot of stuff we are good with self heals and the tank can stay alive on their own. Not saying we can do the heal check stuff like bal sunnar or moongrave fane without a healer but quite a lot of other stuff the other dds and tank are happy for the extra dps.
I love my HA oakensorc. sorry… I only queue as dps though. i have encountered people and guilds that sneer at that build. I feel sad tht some people need to feel elitist about how many bars & abilities they are constantly using. I think it says more about those people than the oakensorc.
I've been building a baby dk tank on the side, but to make the mental step to start running pugs with her as an new tank is so daunting to me. My heavy attack sorc has opened up so much new content for me, like Vateshran, vets, etc. I think zos should just take a look at their rewards structure for keys and transmutes, which invites this kind op behavior in the first place. Veteran players just want their daily keys asap, leaving new players to fend for themselves. I never got the hang of LA weaving, my main NB still hits like a wet noodle. I avoided dungeons like the plague for the longest time because I am anxious about my performance. It's annoying that this game has such a weird high and low ceiling at the same time. There is no real sense in progression into more difficult content for newer players. A fresh lvl 50 cp160 can dive into a vet dlc pretty much without any training beforehand. Yeah at low lvls not all dungeons are locked until you lvl up. But the journey to cp-160 is so quickly that many players I guess jump in underprepared. That and the fact that there are no ingame way to help players get the basic of support roles. There are no training dummies for healers or tanks after all. Pair that together with the increased responsibility that you get in a support role and the attitude that players can have towards less stellar performances of the more inexperienced and yeah. We get the PUG culture of today. signed: a HA sorc that patiently queues as a dps.
So much this! I made a tank about 2 years ago, now like CP 1800 but still am too nervous to tank outside of a WB. Too much pressure to be "the" tank and even though I want to be a "real" tank (and have researched/gathered skills/rotations to use, etc), I feel like I will just be a "crappy" tank and crumble under pressure, plus I get stressed about having to study mechs of wherever I will end up. Much easier to be DPS even with a squishy toon and just blend in with the other mediocre DPSers, lol. I feel we really need more support role training and dummies.
So much this. The learning curve as a tank can be brutal - you're basically expected to know the mechanics of the dungeons because usually, you're the one dealing with them. And if a boss runs wild or one-shots you because you didn't know that thing, you're the one being blamed. And learning that within the game, is next to impossible. You get normal dungeons unlocked, but with one or two levels gained per dungeon run, you'll never see them all before hitting 50. They also have fewer mechanics (esp. the dangerous ones), and the ones that are there can often just be ignored. And most importantly: people just run through normals these days without looking left or right. There's no time to see anything that's happening, you barely keep up. It's really no wonder noone wants to tank.
As a fellow tank and healer, completely sign this. Though Healing isn't boring o.o Miss Azura. The holy restoration staff is merely too powerful, that's why your tank died XD also I think it's funny how Supports are always at fault for everything even when 90% of the time it's on the DD's
Dont know why I got this in my recommended, but this is a large part of why I quit eso a few years ago. I primarily loved running dungeons and the culture in dungeon queue is just so bad, especially with fake roles
Being called a fake tank while learning and running base game dungeons has been turning me off from running any, and I'm running some of those dungeons to get better gear to better tank. The last time I ran one, the healer and I were being called bad and fake after the dps's died and the healer and I finished the final boss on our own ( I'm pretty sure we were both lower cp than the dps's too)
I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. 😔 Some people are just jerks. It's very obvious when someone is actually learning how to tank/heal, as opposed to a dps just faking their role, so it sucks that people are too dumb to realize that, and are too rude to not assist people learning to tank or heal
This is the big picture problem. People wanting to learn these roles, then getting called fake. An no in game-tell off system will fix that. I hope you get the gear, and experince you need for your dungeon running. Tank is a curve, but you can make your life easier with some moves and gear options, (rushing agony is a perfect example and a semi-easy to get set that will AOE-drag mobs to you, and get you to taunting things faster) (talons on a DK, portals on a warden, caltrops on a templar, totem on a necromancer- all great ways to control trash). Tanking in ESO is more about controlling the battle field, and less about 'big stronk person against the dragon'- thats only 40% of the time, the 60% is getting the trash piled up and rounded up (but its more like rounding up cats with a hair dryer sometimes when you first start to learn).
Learn tanking on world bosses. Honestly if you don’t understand basic tanking by your first dungeon. You’ll probably never get it. Tanking might just not be your strength
@@Zeorymer300 I understand how tank for the most part. The trouble now is getting better gear from dungeons to help more. My luck keeps putting me into groups who think I'm fake when I struggle a little in boss fights or when I'm not keeping up because I want to listen to the dialogue/story of a new dungeon/ dungeon I've never ran before.
Fake tanks/healers are bad but just straight up garbage tanks make me irrationally angry im making one so I dont have to deal with people who cant tank taunt or bash the boss ever.
Back when i used to play alot i got so many damn fake tanks it was tiring. I started as a dps but because of ques i decided to make a healer character but whenever a fake tank joined i ended up pulling double duty and had to be a healer and tank because the "tank" didnt have any taunts, damage mitigation or any tank related stuff. Me on the other hand could do so much healing the incoming damage didnt matter.
For most dungeon content, an Oaken sorc with healing orb and twilight suffices if you want to queue as a healer (if there aren't any health absorption mechanics); you could also combine Sergeants’ Mail, PA, and echoing vigor to provide a buff to the other DD's and still contribute to damage.
@@Joe_doesnt_know I would say that it isn't enough, hots are not only essential for your group's survivability but you should also be supplying synergies if you do decide to queue as a support. Both criteria are imbued in a skill such as healing orb.
In the last 6 months or so I've seen more youtube videos say things like "just queue as a tank or healer to get in faster" I run oakensoul sorc, I enjoy its simplicity, I also queue as DPS. Quite a few times I've had to pick up the slack
I main tank and made ha sorc dps which run 3 heals: orb, vigor, pet, i can switch to pure dps depends on content i wanna do, i think oaken helps alot, me and my group manage to complete some trifectas dg with that build. My opinion is as long u can keep team alive is good enough.
About the BCII stuff.... Do NOT taunt the boss... Only taunt Daedra and keep them on the round platform in the back. If you get hit by a bubble suck it up and hold block. Don't move out from platform to cleanse it. Tanks can take that.. But dps need to kill the boss.. (at least they won't have fire breathing on them from everywhere... ).
I love how some fake tanks also use pale order and forget they can only be healed by themselves. Tank: "Heal me, dude. Why aren't you healing me?" Healer: "WTF? I am!" Tank: "Uh, oh."😂
In this game Tanks are supposed to heal themselves. The only "heal" tank need is a Blood Fountain but even then just as an "oh $h!t" button. Tank may need resources from the healer in the long fights but that usually means that tank is not experienced enough.
No. Just no. It’s no different than matchmaking and matchmaking is way better. I hate the system in gw2 and newbies never get allowed in wow mythics when you’re learning the low lvls cuz ppl wanna speedrun
I personally love support roles, but I never cue for anything! The problem is not effort, its people who place undue expectation and blame or are unwilling to accept a person's learning process. Moreover, if one doesn't have experience like me, no one wants you! I realize this is exactly address issues raised here, but it's a partial answer. People in part fake roles because of an exclusionary and even elitist mentality of many of the more experienced players. As for the only trial I have ever done, props to the person who asked for members in zone chat, all levels accepted, and guided us through Sunspire allowing me to share tanking with him in order to learn! truly epic ;)
no definitely not, i'm talking specifically about oakensoul dps who think they count as healers because they use the winged twilight pet or another similar heal
I play a Healer/DPS warden main just for PUG DLC vet dungeons. My default sets are spell power cure, orders wrath and magnum incarnate or symphony of blades monster sets. I can carry most groups. Oaken soul doesn't really belong in group play. It's a selfish set for solo play.
And honestly i think the solution is actually very simple and viable. I get you 100%, and I do share your hatred for fake roles. The solution in my opinin is a reward and punishment treatment by the game itself. What i mean by that, is somethig similar to what FFXIV has. When the group content ends, such as trials, dungeons and even pvp, you have to option to vote out for the player that did best in your opinion. This is a way to incentivate players not only to play better, but to act better. Like being nice in chat. But ESO needs more than that... So i think it would also be nice to have to option to give a negative impact on other players as well. For example, giving us "reputation". When you vote someone down, like for being a bad healer or tank, they lose reputation, and this impacts him in ways like increasing their queue for that role. So lazy fake healer/tank that are just looking for a faster queue will lose that advantage. This could also be worth for trials. For example, if you want to make a group for a hard content, instead of asking for there parsing, gears, etc, you can just check his "reputation". If you see his reputation is low as a tank or dps, you know something is wrong and you wont want him in your group. "But what about new players?" I dont think that's a issue. Since you have this interaction and power over the others, they'll adapt. Everyone will. And by that i mean they will call out when they are new, or they are learning, or testing something before they begin the content. Like when you are doing the dungeon for the first time and you usually say "doing quest" so they wait for you and dont screw up for you... This reputation sistem could also have the option to vote up at lvl 1, but only unlock the option to get down votes at a especific CP. lets say you can only down vote someone from 160CP. Or a bit higher since you still only new to the game on that lvl. Maybe 300CP... This also prevents new players to get down votes when they are still learning. But, they'll have a incentive when doing something right! It would also be pointless if players didn't have a reason to vote out someone. So, giving us rewards by doing so, like achivments with a new unlockable would help getting this system to be introduced and work. Achivments like "get X amount reputation/votes" and "vote out X players" with rewards like a new dye color, or a clothing, or skin, mount, pet, whatever. Just something to give us reason to vote up someone. Can even be a combo, like getting voted and vote. Anyway. This give us all we need. It gives everyone good reasons to try new roles as this reputation can be role based, to be better as a player in game like learning how to play, as well as getting better with other players and community by being nice and more communicative, helps solve queue time issues with time and fake roles, gives something new to grind. Its a win win
I do fake tank everyday once a day on normal random dungeons, just to get my 10 daily transmute. but I always change one skill for a taunt skill when I fake tank.
I think there are two ways to fix this problem because it's two fold. One, new player experience: I think this one could be fixed so easily by just having the option to queue with never players, I made a forum post about this all the way back in 2019, and WOW has had this option since before then. Basicly when queueing up, veteran players gets the option to be more likely to be qued with new / inexperienced players. This way new player wont be queued up with as many fake roles and people rushing through. I also don't think there needs to be a rewards structure, there are plenty of people out there that likes to teach new players. No one really mind fake roles on normal otherwise. Second is the fake roles (in veteran content): I think the fake roles has the root in one problem: extremely poor performance of the average dps players. The reason there are no tanks and healers in the queue, is that dps players queueing up often do less than 20k dps. The only way to fix this problem is an elo system. Which is probably going to not be the most popular solution, but if you had an elo system, more real tanks and healers would queue up, and that would automatically lead to less fake roles. Other games use gear score as elo etc. In ESO you could simply base it on veteran achievement points, or recent veteran content clears.
I get where you coming from but having a healer in vet dlc dungeon is a huge dps loss and waste of time. It's better to have 3 dps and 1 tank to burst everything down. If things die fast there's no reason to heal.
actually having a healer that can buff the group and provide things like SPC, MA or Pillager's along with whatever buff sets the tank is wearing is better than running 3 dps. it's a dps loss for dps to have to slot a heal themselves and a good healer will be able to still do about 15% of the group's overall damage on top of buffing and healing. running 3 dps was only good when the pale order meta was a thing
I know very late! I spend an inordinate amount of time helping new players. One of the things they tell me is that other players ( probably, but not assuredly vet players) tell them that ' Healers/ Tanks' aren't *needed* in Normal Dungeons and Trials. So they never learn their role before they get to vet. I saw someone tell a newbie this in a Random Normal I was doing on a lowbie. I took a screen shot of the newbies name and then whispered them and told them I'd be more than willing to give them some tips and pointers towards Healing when we were done. I spent 2 hrs answering questions , making him some armor/ weapons to research and showing him how to pick the right dungeon and drop sets. Not to mention crafting some sets to wear then research. 2 yrs later he's running the vetTrial progression group in one of the guilds we both belong to and teaching others... though he's switched to Tank. I don't run VET Dungeons and Trials more than once anymore due to arthritis in my hands ( and that's on my DBL PetSorc)... except every once in a While when a Healer is really needed, I'll pull my Necro Healer out... Guilld only and I remind them he's not close to Meta, he's what I can run.. nope no Oakensoul, just an AOE based Necro Healer, so please don't run away from my AOEs!! But yes he can heal vet DLC Dungeons and Trials. But that's my take on why many new players dont want to run support roles and even when they do they get discouraged and just quit when they get to Vet levels and get wenched at because they don't know their role.
I’ve had a fake tank and or healer every time I do veteran Falkreath hold. It frustrates me because with a real 4 person group the content would be so much easier. It’s gotten so bad that I swap a dps slot and ultimate on my back bar for group heals when I go into it now as a rule. This lowers my dps output and slows the whole process down. Frustrating, but better than being constantly wiped.
Hey thanks for the video on this important topic. I admit I have been called a fake healer and no not because of oakensoul but because of inexperience. You touched on this in your video that you also had a learning curve to get the tanking or healing right, so while there are plenty of jerks that fake just to get in, there are also many of us who try and would like to be better healers or tanks. Can you share what you have learned on how to become a good healer or tank for those of us that really want to get better at it? I would also point out that as I experienced myself during the recent event, random groups often lack cohesion and do not work as a group, but all to often try to sprint through a dungeon to the final boss leaving players behind. So we really need more awareness of dungeon etiquette in general. Cheers
Thanks! I've had a few people request a video like that and I've been tossing up making it or not. I am by no means a god at the game so I feel like I don't really have the background to teach people stuff about tanking 😂
Yeah I for onw would appreciate your perspective on what has worked for you in tanking and healing; you don't have to be the best at it, but you have some xp. In absence of "tank college" we only have other player advice to go on for pointers and there are so many opinions out there. Ultimately we all have to figure out what works best for us but knowing the does and don'ts are not always obvious. I just heard for example in another video that it is not a healers job to revive fallen players and I totally thought it was. Eso is the only mmo I played for any length of time and mostly casual solo stuff or the longest time, so not exactly a noob but still learning group dynamics and I am sure there are others like me that strive to get better at the group content. The only way to improve is by trial but then people get pissed because you are not perfect....
When use to play I loved being a healer. Never did the one bar fake thing though. I do remember back in the day a fake sorc healer came on without a resto staff. 😂
Only time I've done the OakenHealer is for Normal Daily Random dungeons. Full healer bar with heavy attack gear. Works for the normal, and hits like a truck.
Genuine question: I'm a newer player to MMOs in general. I want to tank, because that playstyle and role are cool to me. But how do I practice tanking, without queuing for real dungeons and potentially ruining someone else's run because I don't know what I'm doing? Like, I want to learn and get good at it. It's just I feel the best way to improve is doing real dungeons, and yet videos like this make me think I'd be a burden when I'm trying to tank and learn at the same time.
I'm a healer main, and casual tank. I'm always cautious asking if anyone in chat if they need a tank, bc most of the guilds i'm in are starving for tanks. And most of my tanking experience has now been vet, sometimes taking an hour or two to learn. All this to say, tanking is scary af give it a try. XD
I run oakenplar healer, and it's quite effective, strong h.o.t. and 30k combat prayers while buffing with spc and p. Assault. The only time I struggle is when the dps disappear to the other side of the room or run in b4 tank. Although I definitely believe it will be out done by proper warden heals
I'm with you I don't use mythics either, I'd rather be challenged in ESO than rely on a mythic for buffs, just saying it's my opinion. If I want to play a game with a mythic such as buffs I will go play The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim SE with ring of God mode
EDIT: a potential solution to this would be to add more ways to farm transmutes. I only fake RNDs because I need transmutes to fuel my constant build ventures, I don't care much for the XP anymore. I love tanking but I only have one proper tank. Rest of my characters either have a good defensive PvP or solo build, so I slap a taunt on them and call it a day. I only ever fake random daily normals this way, its usually faster with all dps anyway, but if my makeshift solution doesn't work I just bring out my proper tank so that I don't ruin the run for others who have been waiting... is it even faking if I taunt? to me it still is lol.. but yeah. I do it to save my own time for the daily transmutes because I know I can still fulfill the role or I have a backup, but why anyone would do that in vets is absolutely beyond me.
If ZeniMax fixed the que system maybe it wouldn’t be as bad but I think you would still see those type…I was told when I complained about a vet dlc dungeon having no heal “you suck your build sucks you should have a heal” isn’t that why there are healers in the game?
honestly i agree with you and i normally run support roles my self and tend to have back up builds as healers or debuffer on my dps wich is probly why i love my wardens so much
I think fake tanking in the daily randoms is still the worst offender. They should stop giving the same rewards for normals as for vet and separate dlc from base game(at least on vet). Whenever I level a new character and have to run daily randoms on normal for the XP it's just awful to see people(CP2000+) sucking the ZOS tit to get those transmutes.
A lot of what you went over I very much agree with but I sort of feel like the direction of the complaints is a bit skewed. Technically I’d qualify as a “fake” healer in my trifecta group, but I adjust how much I need to focus on healing as opposed to DPS depending on the incoming damage checks, in an organized group of reasonable players this is talked about and adjusted for accordingly. In PUGs the problem with pretty much everything is the lack of organization, what works for one group might not for another but unless the team is just melting everything or willing to adjust. So many people just seem unwilling to adjust to the group especially when its a one off run, which is brought to light via the queue system. It’s unadaptable players that are nearly always the problem, this just happens to be the most common version of that these days because of accessibility of oakensoul. Much like you pointed out, there isn’t really a fix outside just kicking players who won’t help the group, but that’s an individual player problem to me more than anything else. Very well done video
I'm working on a tank and healer build. I never once played as either in a group, or ever for that matter, but I know what it's like when one of them sucks. I don't want to suck so I'm learning what makes a perfect healer/tank build and what skills are the best. I'm 1400 cp so you would think I was a fake one, when really I have no idea how to play as either, but tank I understand more.. I wouldn't have problems being a tank I don't think. Healer not so much.. You said the reason why I've never played either.. Damage is the most fun. Only reason I'm learning is because my guilds are always looking for one last minute to play a trial I want to farm.
All the best with learning how to tank and heal! It can be a bit of a learning curve, and jerks will be rude to you, but don't let them get to you and find some people to give you some advice and help if you don't already
Agreed with the vet dungeon assignments. This has been a problem since I started playing years ago. Peeps that can't DPS either. I have been a healer as long, and the amount of toxic hate I have received is not good on my game play. After getting fake tanks and fake healers in the same dungeon I tried a tank healer build but ended up getting non DPS peeps. The problem again has been a problem for years, go look in UA-cam for the evidence. So I have stopped doing vet dungeons as it became not fun anymore. Now I just heal in a normal dungeon for my random, but the build has the damage if needed (which it is when you play with low levels)
Heal normals in an oakensoul hybrid, do 70% of the dps and still provide support buffs. I set myself up in Sergeant's and just swap out the 2nd set for SPC. Obviously not all the time will you do most the DPS but if the dps is low you will at least be able to mostly carry the DPS in normal. On vet, that is another bundle of kittens. I too found doing randoms less fun or end up filling my ignore list with more toxic twits than it can handle and just don't bother pugging.
Lol ok go do a vet moongrave fane or something without a healer. The amount of groups who can't even get past the first boss 😂😂😂 the newer dungeons need healers too because incoming damage is ticking higher now because people started running without healers
@@fallen5771 yes but if you are running a traditional group where dps don't slot a heal (because they shouldn't because it's a dps loss) then you 100% need a healer. if you want to just melt bosses then you are 100% better off running a healer than not because of buffs, sustain, etc.
Another thing on this topic is when these same heavy attack oakensoul sorcs queue for PvP battlegrounds. It feels like you enter a 3 vs 8 and it’s like getting into a vet HM dlc dungeon with a fake role you can’t kick. It ruins the fun for PvP players and is super annoying since if pvpers enter vet dungeons on PvP builds we get called out and kicked. Biggest change I wanna see is a kick button on battlegrounds
There are way too many of them on the rise. Yeah, I believe you can be a healer and tank with oakensoul build, gives that you prioritize the role you signed up for. I have done it all, being a proper vet trial healer and tank and an off healer/tank. Keep your taunts up and don't die. That will do. Problem is when these fakes can't even dps properly. When I run a healer I end up having 41% group damage, which shows how bad these fakes are.
Hi, anxiety ridden human being 1882789272 here. I've always been a DPS for the sole reason I can rely on myself for my success in content as a DPS. I can add healing skills, damage shields, MORE damage. I can do everything if I want, thought mostly in solo play (which I mostly do). Healer and Tank? Well I'd have everyone looking at me, judging my every move and complaining if I mess up. Whenever I queue as a DPS as everyone should be doing if set for the role, I always hate seeing healers and tanks say "sorry" or "my bad" in chat. I know how hard that shit can be, and sometimes my fellow DPS has the brass balls to comment on their poor effort. My man, you and me press multiple buttons and do big number, our brains aren't very large compared to the players who need to: 1, keep everyone alive. and 2. Learn every mechanic, see every block action, rotate bosses, keep them positioned and also healing themselves when needed. To my fellow DPS.. Don't be a dick to your supports and tanks. They're better than us. Thank you.
It's sad you have to put like a 60 second disclaimer at the start of the video because people will bitch about anything. Fake roles are ruining the Dungeons in ESO, it's a huge issue that needs to be addressed.
I play a one bar build characters and I don't use oakensoul. DPS only by the way. Most of my deaths are do to me zigging when I should've zagged. LOL! I have had share of both fake tanks and fake healers. I once had to fake tank a dungeon when the actual fake tank got passed, after we called'em out, left. I was with my guild master, a great healer, and another dps fighting the last boss on a vet hard mode, base game, we survived because of our great healer. By the way my character was a squishy sorcerer with around 20k health. 😅 By the way, the only taunt available to me was the one from the undaunted skill tree. I can never remember the name of it.
Hi, hello, how are you? Apparently some people still misunderstood the assignment and probably didn't listen to what I was saying so I will say it again: I'm not hating on people who use oakensoul builds legitimately. I even said that oakensoul is GOOD in the video. Just the people who use it to fake queue. I don't care if people fake queue normal, or base game veteran dungeons. It's the veteran DLC dungeons that brings me pain when I get a fake healer. You guys can play what you want, but if you are going to be subjecting others to your "tank with no taunt build", then maybe just be considerate of others, especially new players. We gotta collectively look out for the new players as a community and be nice to each other ❤
I agree Im a tank and cant stand fake tanks and Healers they ruin it for everyone dont let hate comments get to you cause they are the problem for not understanding your opinion.
Ummm... What does your video title say actually ? *OAKENSOUL "HEALERS" AND FAKE TANKS SUCK* But your not hating - WTF ? That's like saying I hate cheese but still eat pizza ? 😂If your trying to make reactionary content try not having a hypocritical title.
Now I know your a legitimate crazy person !
@@sirlancealot2043 It's now gotten to the point where content creators(UA-camrs) say you don't need a healer to run xyz vet DLC HM. -Look we got the trifecta (with our perfectly optimized group) through the dungeon without a healer! -Well, good for you! But not a good example for others to follow.. Seems a lot like that now, people follow those doing the most amazing unobtainable stuff thinking they can do that too.. Then they(dps) queue in the finder as healer or tank..
Hi. A bit depressed these days, thanks for Asking. How are you? My Wife and i are just really fed up with all the negativity against oakensoul players. Maybe i missunderstood or missinterpreted what you said. We just really had some bad experiences, even had to end some friendships cause people belittled and bashed all my Wifes achievements and efforts just because shes using a oakensoul HA build. We cleared vKA HM and vMOL HM among other things and her "friends" kept belittling and bashing her to the point she wanted to stop playing.
I'm sorry to heat that. My intention was not dissing legitimate oakensoul builds, just people who seem to think they are an excuse to fake heal or tank because they have a heal in their build. Oakensoul builds can be used to complete so much content, so much so that you see groups getting trial trifectas with them. I'm sorry you and your wife have had to deal with toxic players, as someone who has traditionally played off meta classes for trials and being shoe-horned into playing what the group wants I can totally understand. Unless the group is a set roster, or has requirements for achievement or score pushing runs, I don't think people should be left out as long as they are good enough to complete the content. I hope you have a better day or night 😊
Amen! Fake tanks/healers make everything harder in dungeons. As a healer main, I often end up both healing AND tanking - not what I signed up for. 😢 Thanks for speaking up about this! Probably my biggest pain point in ESO.
At least you slot a taunt right?
I made a heavy armor healer due to this exact situation. Its mainly pvp focused but i can heal and tank with it if need be in a lot of content.
I started out as a tank, but ran into to many toxic people in pug groups when I was trying to learn. I switched my role to DPS just to make my game experience better.
Thats my expierience as well. Tanking can be fun but running into super toxic peeps is crap. I gave up on tanking and running as heal every now and then with friends...I just try soloing the game or just play DPS. I feel you mate
Solution. Guilds
Same problem as well. I just came back to give a second chance for the game. Sometimes when I played as a dps or tank, even doing everything ok, I was kicked out in the last boss. At that time, people where doing that just for trolling and that makes me have a bad experience with the game.
Oh, no! The abuse I took while learning was horrible. Tank dies => shit tank, fake tank etc.. The level of profanity spewed is insane. Healer probably knows it wasn't a tank issue, but keeps quiet as to not make it a healer issue..
@@kaerithiakeshan -Oh, you'll get that same abuse as healer when you do harder content... -Steel yourself!
The problem with dungeon ques is how fickle the player base is. It's not even a fake healer/tank issue anymore, it feels like in most dlc vet dungeons i'm in fall apart in the first pull if it doesn't go well. People immediately turn on each other then rage quit lol.
Its because most of people queued for random are there not to just play, but to complete the dungeon as fast as possible to get transmute stones.
DLC dungeons take a lot more time to complete than vanilla ones, but since you can't quit and immediately start the search again you might as well give it a try.
If you see that your group is definitely not going to complete the dungeon in reasonable amount of time than it is not worth staying.
Transmute stones won't farm themselves.
Man try running trials took my guild an hour to get a group together for nSS lol
@@VoidShepherd SunSpire doesn't have anything useful in current meta.
That's the biggest problem of ESO actually: out of ~500 sets just a dozen or so is used.
@skipperg4436 We were running it to teach people and did a few rounds of snake framing for Perfected gear to help those that didn't have it fill thier sticker books,etc . A lot of people don't care about the meta honestly.
@@skipperg4436 I only queue vDLC for fun. I even queue random vet dungeons hoping to get DLC
Fake tanks/healers have been turning me off of dungeons. I haven’t been doing pledges because of them. It’s not so bad when I’m the tank or healer myself, but when I wait 30+ minutes on my dps (which is usually my own Oakensoul sorc since I’m farming for other dps gear and just want to dps and not worry about tank/healer mechanics) only to get a fake support role… it makes me frustrated. Like idc what people do with their friends or guildies, but if you’re queuing for random vet dungeons or specific dlc vet dungeons, please queue for the proper role. Makes it easier and more enjoyable for the rest of us.
Easy solution... Guilds
@@zombiejesus7445 Yeah. I'm in guilds. But no one wants to run the same content that I do or are available at the same time cause time zones are a thing.
@@SpinelwolfPlus they be could be doing other things in the game and you don't want to bother them if that is case.
yeah when I do actually DPS queue I make sure I have plenty of self heals on backbar until I see if the healer is a real one or tank.
That's your problem. Learn to survive and and get some sort of heal yourself. Don't feel entitled and that you must have heals. People go in as healing cos they do less damage. If you see a lower lvl player then lose some damage but survive with another ability. Lower damage Is better than no damage when you are dead
The issuse ultmately isn't oakensoul, or anything like that, but the fact that the reward system for doing a random normal is the same as a random veteran. Being that a majority of these 'fake tanks fake healers' can solo the dungeons on normal, and just want to get in and get out for their transmute farm, we should be looking at how ZOS structures their rewards.
Right now, a random normal, can be completed sub-10min (in some cases sub-2min if its FG1). Thats 5 transmutes a day easily.
Any other form of transmute farming is either a cloud rest/Aslyum farm (6+ people) and can take about 15min depending- and 10 transmutes weekly.
Tales of Tribute is inconsistant.
Vatershran and Maelstrom you have to leaderboard top 100 and wait till sunday.
PVP you have to wait out till the end of campaign, or daily 5-transmutes if you get 1st or 2nd place.
Pledges reward 2 keys but only 3 transmutes on veteran HM (which some of us can solo).
So again, we should be looking at the transmute reward strucutre, not oakensoul builds or 'fake tanks fake healers', for the source of the problem.
Tanking isn't difficult for me, but it just stinks knowing I could out dps both dps combined. Same goes for healing. Why ever do the support role when most dps can't even pump out 40k on a trial dummy?
i played a heavy attack lghtning sorcerer from the beginning. It was a two bar build with mostly buffs on the second bar. Now i play the "same" build without the need of all the buffs and use the oakensoul ring. a sorcerer dps should never die because they have a lot of tools to stay alife. in every dungeon i go i act as an offheal because i know the problem with the fake healers and more often than not me and the tank finishing the fights while the "healer" and the other dps are knocked out (who jumps around in random groups with just 18k health?). It's not the oakensoul that keeps me alife, it's the build i am running which is a mix of 70% dps so between 40-50k damage and 30% survivability.
Tanks need more damage - i mean 60-80% of a pure dps damage like a death knight in WOW - that would make me play a tank in ESO. Right now Tank builds are complete garbage outside of group content, that is why most people don't give a fu**
I think you're mixing up Oakensoul with the fake healer part.
You can have a good dedicated Oakensoul healer. It is just a problem that people fake heal regardless if it is a Oakensoul HA sorc.
As a Healer/Tank main, i have a much bigger problem with fake dps. People who insist to use some 2 bar NB build with Metagear but dont do shit cause they constantly take vacations in AOE's or cant even use their metasets cause they cant weave. Id rather have a 50-80k Oakensoul DPS in a dungeon than a wannabe pro NB that dies to a single mob.
100%. Whether oakensoul is cheesy or not doesn't matter. The fact that you have to LA weave on trash servers to get good dps is just stupid. The barrier to entry is way too high unless you no life the game.
I'm not 100% but I'm sure this upload is marketed towards a particular guild of elitist's culture !
@@dagolf06 aoe trash set up rotations are slightly diffrent then say a single target rotation. The pirotization of particular dots or AOE skills make it so you can get more of that AOE damage out faster- and in some cases even skip spamibles depending on how fast the trash is dying (IE: normal level). The barrier isn't the LA but just learning when and how to use particular rotations and if you want to get even more effieceny, gear/weapon set up swaps if you want to say hot-key swap set ups (but generally unnessiary unless in a speed-run group set up).
Oakensoul being a HA set up with a lighting staff means that HA at the end has a small spurt of damage that splashes out, and makes it an easier rotation for both single and AOE- depending if it's an oakensorc or any other build. Sometimes 1 or 2 moves to swap to add more AOE may be nessisary, but ultiamtely, just putting an AOE drop-dot down first is sufficent.
I basically said same comment that bad DPS is far far worse.
This makes no sense. It's the other way round. I as a tank had to do all the mechanics in vet Falkreath because I had TWO oakensorc dpses who held down their mouse button properly all the way till the enemy was "dead" but you have to get a synergy to bring to the cleanse area.. They just kept standing around doing nothing and the bosses just kept spawning over and over.. Of course they "killed" them every time with their high dps mouse button. So I took all the synergies myself and roll dodged to the cleanse areas.. Killing the big boss was of course not a problem, since they knew how to hold down the mouse button. Then comes next problem.. They have to cleanse corpses to stop us from dying.. Again, great DPS but no cleansing. After dying a few times healer started to understand the cleansing part and we made it. Next we have of course the bull.. I hit HM, we killed everything nicely and reduce his health, but then we have the problem with hiding behind the pillars.. Healer knew it and survived, dps all died(they didn't even try to get behind a pillar). Healer spends all his time getting dps up until the next wipe( of the dps) comes.. At least they didn't stand behind pillars, so me and healer had those to ourselves. Such a waste of time, when you can have dps with less damage who actually know mechanics.
I agree with you. People will fake tank or heal regardless of gear. Oakensoul has nothing to do with it. At least a crappy player will do more damage with it. When I tank I would rather an oakensoul doing damage rather than holding a boss for 10 minutes while a 2 bar 15k dps tries to kill it.
I know this is about fake support roles but it seemed like an opportunity to take a shot at oakensoul. If you do enough damage to complete the content and don't die alk the time I don't care what gear you use.
Thanks for the vid.
I fully agree with you in that people Q for roles they have NO BUSINESS playing. They don't have the gear, skills or the attentiveness to play those roles. I am SICK of people Qing as tank with 22k-26k HP and all DPS gear. I'm sick of healing them, I'm sick of dealing with their BS at all. They die on the first boss and then leave everyone waiting for another tank. It's complete BS. I don't run across that many "fake healers" because the game in general really doesn't need much healing, a GOOD healer is really more for buffs and to toss some heals when someone screws up. They rarely need to be DEPENDED on for a run to go smoothly. If that's the case you have a shit tank and/or shit DPS that either don't know the fight or aren't specd right or both.
It all comes down to there being good players and shit players. It will ALWAYS be this way because different people have different levels they get into the game. There is nothing you can do about that. BUT I wish there was something we could do about "fake tanks" at the least. I don't know what that would look like though or how you could implement it. Maybe a minimum armor value and/or HP value in order to Q as a tank? Having a taunt on their bar? How would you work that out? Healers would be even harder because it's just spell power basically. Maybe a +healing % cutoff, certain skills, or resto staff only?? Again just really hard to enforce it. I wish there was a way though because I'm tired of fake tanks for sure.
Not sure why oakensoul is even mentioned in this honestly, it does seem like you have issues with it in general. Calling oakensoul users bad and lazy in general does not help your point that you have no issue with Oakensoul. Quite the opposite lol. I heal and tank just find with oakensoul builds through all the content in the game. The issue is not oakensoul its with people that Q for things they aren't specd for AT ALL. Healers that have no heals or very few heals wearing DPS gear and tanks that have no tank gear and 22k HP are the problem. These have nothing to do with oakensoul. It has to do with stupid and selfish people. On my oakensoul tank I can tank vet dungeons without any heals at all. I often times go with 3 dps and me tanking with my friends. They don't die. They don't stand in shit. They have a self heal as well if they need it. 3 DPS and a good tank is viable for most of the content in the game. It all comes down to the people, not the game. Why aren't you running with good people instead of random Qing for hard shit?? That's a question you should ask yourself. Get some friends lol.
Its kinda funny that you think oakensoul builds are all easy and the players are lazy. That's a pretty broad stroke with that brush of yours. Try only using 5 skills and actually being good at the game. It's not THAT easy. Making a good build with only 5 skills takes proper planning of gear and skills. With your logic it could be argued that 2 bar builds are the easy ones because they get to use 10 skills and two different weapons. I don't see refreshing buffs on your back bar as being a god at the game or anything. You just prefer a more active rotation. You're literally just watching timers and hitting the button when the timer runs out. That's not groundbreaking rocket science.
Being speced with proper gear, proper skills and having eyes and a brain to react to what's happening is what matters. Some people just don't have that. Some people are just casuals and don't look up what spec to use. Some people get all willy nilly with their Q and Q for things they shouldn't just to get a fast Q. It's something hard to get rid of because the issues are with THE PEOPLE, not the game. There will always be players that suck and players that don't with varying degrees in between. There always has been and always will be in MMOs.
In the end people should always play what makes them happy without being dumped on for using 1 bar or 2 as long as they can do the task at hand. Oakensoul is the reason a lot of people are even still playing this game. A lot of people don't like bar swapping builds at all, especially people coming from other games. Some people have disabilities and can't constantly bar swap as well. Should they just not play?? When you shit on oakensoul builds you are just gatekeeping and lowering the amount of people that want to play the game. Who wants to play when you just get dumped on for no reason? The game will die without diversity for a larger player base. Is that what you really want? I doubt it.
Yeah it's annoying as hell. I made my dps a back up tank with the armoury assistant for that very reason 😂
Given how low the game population currently is, Oakensoul is probably a life saver to have any player to do harder stuff.
no it's not because the users of that cringering are lazy af and they can't do shit
Yup
Yeah I have oak sorc cus I just started. The lack of healers and tanks ran me to it. Dying so fast in a vet dungeon and never getting to try. If I can’t find a healer I’ll do it myself with the matriarch. It stinks but what else can I do?
As someone who's been playing for about a year and mains as a healer (complete with all those sets.... ugh) 100% on all of this. I hate the DPS queue, but not enough to tarnish some other player's experience just to skip the wait. Fake role queuing is just a selfish move.
Design issue for sure. When I que as a legit tank group dps is so low a companion can do more damage then them. Likewise, when I fake tank as a dps I end up doing like 70-80% of the groups dps and we clear pretty fast.
I think it would help if Zos would add some sort of classification system to dungeons that give you a quick rundown on what to expect from a dungeon. For example a 1 star dungeon would be something like normal Fungal Grotto I (2 star for vet) and the 1 star tool tip would read "Easy for all players." A 3 star dungeon would be something like normal Fungal Grotto II (4 star vet) and the tool tip would read "May have a 1-shot mechanic or other mechanics requiring group participation. Great for new players trying to learn harder content." A 5 Star dungeon would be something like normal Cradle of Shadows and the tool tip for 5 stars would read "Will have multiple 1-shot mechanics or other mechanics requiring group participation. All players must know there role well. For experienced players only." Lastly a 5 gold star dungeon would be something like vet Cradle of Shadows or vet Scalecaller Peak. The 5 gold star tool tip would read "Only for those seeking a true challenge. Will have multiple 1-shot mechanics and mechanics requiring total group participation. Players should have legendary quality gear and have complete confidence in the character/role they are playing. Voice chat recommended."
That way new players could pick and chose what dungeons they want to try based off of the tool tip and the difficulty rating. They could also change the random dungeon list so it is "Random 1-3 Star Dungeon, Random 4-5 Star Dungeon, and lastly Random 5 Gold Star Dungeon. They higher star rating you pick the better the rewards for completing the random daily. Maybe 1 to 3 stars gives blue rewards, 4 and 5 gives purple and an undaunted key, and 5 gold stars would give legendary rewards and 3 undaunted keys.
that is a really good idea! i like it
very articulate!
People queue for random dungeons to farm transmute stones.
This is THE root cause of the problem.
You have endgame players mixed with noobs because of that.
Endgame players are very annoyed that there are people who can't complete vanilla vet dungeons with 4 DD group in several minutes.
And that there are people who don't know what they are doing in general.
As for noobs I suspect they are also annoyed that there are people who run forward do skips and ignore all mechanics by just nuking everything.
This is very unhealthy environment created by ZOS via transmute system.
Thank you for bringing this to light a lil more, it IS a problem
Madam, you tempt me to create a frost staff oakensoul tank build. just to show it can be done xD
I think a lot of it comes down to people not actually understanding what a tank and healer do in this game, they think "I have a heal so I'm a healer" or "I'm hard to kill so I'm a tank" but tanking and healing are really your secondary role, your real job is buffing and debuffing and this is rarely explained to new players and certainly not by the game itself.
I think it's actually a little worse than that and at least some of my experience is players genuinely seeming to simply "not know" basics. I've met healers that stand still and do absolutely nothing unless a player takes a chunk of damage and then they heal. I've also met tanks that did not realise they could taunt and were frantically trying to generate aggro...
I don't care about buffing and debuffing in a pug, I care that a tank can taunt and has some survivability, a healer uses some HoTs and my DDs try to kill stuff and move out of AoEs (each being open to advice is a HUGE plus, of course, when things aren't going well). Beyond that, I honestly think people are expecting too much. There is nothing in the game that prepares new players for vet DLCs considering the majority are run through normals and base vets like they are nothing. If the experienced players aren't helping newer players at all they are only contributing to the problem imo, especially when they immediately resort to insults etc.
12:32... This is not a zos problem, its a player problem. Pick who you play with
"Healers are for noobs" 8:27
Says the dude who needs to run a heavy attack build not realizing that ice reach is one of the more dificult dungeons that absolutely requires a healer. Absolutely zero self awareness
I agree with you mostly, non dlc vet pledges, daily normals, it doesn’t matter what role anyone is, but most people complaining about fake healers/tanks are the cp400 questers with a roleplay “build” just doing non dlc vet pledges. On the other hand people queuing for DLC dungeons at hella low cp doing 10k Dps is WASTING the actual tanks and healers time. (As tanks me and you understand this the most) only thing I can think of to help prevent fake tank/Dps/healers is having to clear at least 3 non dlc vet dungeons IN that role to be able to queue for DLC vet dungeons
I’m a healer when I do dungeons, and to be honest it’s not the fake tanks that annoy me so much (but some definitely do) it’s the selfish entitled attitude of some players. The tanks who bolt through the dungeon and leave everyone else behind annoys me no end. The DPS who run ahead and pull without the tank even getting a chance to do anything, and people who run with their merchant or banker out. I ask them very nicely to put the merch away, and most selfishly ignore the request. When people are dicks, I just leave. I’m a healer, I get straight in, so I don’t mind waiting for the cool down. Don’t even get me started on the DPS who are so bad I end up doing dps AND healing just so we can complete the run (and doing more dps than the actual dps!). I did smile when you said you wouldn’t be caught with a resto staff and won’t ever heal. I feel like that about tanking! 😂
Oh and sometimes I get a fake tank, and shitty dps, so I end up not only healing and dpsing, but tanking too because the fake tank can’t keep the boss off me!
@@terris7842 Anything for 10 transmutes baby!
@@elderwiz3165 I'm maxed out and my bags are full of them. Really wish they would let them stack!!
Haha I let those tanks run as far as they want then kick them out. Really love those salty whispers 😊
@@Zeorymer300 Haha, yes, that would do it. :)
Real healer here. I believe one of the reasons why healing is not enticing for many is the fact that in a such solo-oriented game like ESO the self-helas build in lots of DD setups together with low incoming damage in most of the early content makes healer role not very impactful. Oakensoul is exaggerating that problem by making DDs even more survivable. But even before it was introduced, all base game HMs could be done without healer with relative ease. So by doing this you're not learning much as a healer, because your actions (or lack thereof) have little to none consequences. And when you get to the content dangerous enough so you are needed, you struggle, because you didn't really have a decent learning curve before. And you get blamed for not knowing the stuff that you never had the opportunity to learn.
they should make the dungeon completion for tanks and healers different to the dps roles, so for example for a tank to get the daily dungeon reward, or key, or gear drops from the boss they have to taunt that boss an maintain at least 50% of the agro or something similar, healers need to of healed the dps's by a certain amount...etc this kind of mechanic would ensure fake tanks and healers would never benefit from doing so, and be forced to either queue as dps's or learn how to play tanks and healers so they could queue as them.
i've been playing since launch and I tank main so i love tanking it's in my opinion the easiest role to learn and you feel like a badass going toe to toe with these massive dangerous bosses and shrugging these super powerful attacks. i also love healing as it too is pretty easy and it's nice to feel like the glue that's holding the whole party together. almost all my characters have a profficient alt tank or healer build so i can queue without waiting i don't know why people son't just do the same decent gear sets for tanks and healers are much more available from easier content and building a great tank or healer is much easier than a DPS at least in my experience.
that is a really good idea! i would definitely be on board with it. would make people play the objective in the dungeon. even if someone was still queuing as a 'tank' as a dps, they would still have to slot a taunt at least, so that's kinda half the role fulfilled
I can run inner fire on my stamina sorcerer and taunt the boss, survive the encounter, and do the highest DPS in most normals with such a set up- all without being a 'proper tank'. This will not fix the problem, but just challenge most transmute farmers wanting to get in and out faster. The only benefit the team would get is 1 synergery and me taunting the boss, which depending on which boss, I can just stand there and parse anyhow.
However, the average skill of a player may come into question- as even some legit learning tanks can't manage 50% taunt up times, or are under the impression soft-agro is enough. Thankfully, between chain-taunts and ice staff built in taunt, and the future arcanist class-taunt this may change, but it won't change a tank's skill level without education, time and self-imrpovement.
@@OolongSnakeArt the 50% example was just that it could be as simple as applying taunt to each boss to attain the rewards as long as the the person who is tanking is taking some of the aggro so new players don't die in dungeons as often and people arn't as incentivised to fake queue that is all that is needed. we just need to make fake healing and fake tanking not worth it to those who do it, or make it more hassle than it's worth.
@@Azuraaaaaaaaa indeed as long as the person filling the tank role is pulliing the majority of the bosses agro they are doing the job the role is there for. which would at least be better than the current situation
Undaunted Taunt gives you DPS increase.
Its not hard to tank as DPS you just have to slot taunt and a shield skill.
And have Plague Doctor or Beekeaper set just in case you need extra hp for some more tough fights.
Only thing iam hateing right now is the fact it’s my first time doing dungeon runs ever and people just rush through and skip half the content
I never liked the word "fake" like I'm just tryin to have fun and get some gear that's for some reason locked behind a dungeon. I can kill dlc World Bosses solo, so I figured that I would have okay dps for Veteran dungeons. But apparently, that makes me a fake dps just because I don't have 12 hrs a day to grind the newest meta sets to deal 200k dps.
If I could get dungeon sets from guild traders, I would, but the game wants me to play dungeons for it soo, If you want to hate me for being a causal, then do you idc. I try my best to stay in dungeon formation and deal with as much damage as my build can manage. If it's not enough for you Tough cookies just gonna have to deal with me until I get the gear I want. Which really wouldn't take long. There's not much dungeon stuff that I want.
This is probably the most reasonable comment I've read. ESO is a game. Games are meant to be fun. The moment a game is taken too seriously means it's not fun anymore.
My favorite character is my tank. I love my tank. I want to call my tank my main character.
I love tanking and I am proud of my competency as a tank, my situational awareness, my build, etc.
Personally, I don't really care about people having low dps.
The reason I HATE tanking for randoms is the DPS that act like they're on skooma IRL.
The problem in my book is that party etiquette is dead.
Random parties make my job way harder than it has to be.
Don't get me wrong, I get into a random Banished Cells or something, whatever, I get that I don't really need to be here.
I drop into something like Vet DLC and DPS is running ahead and pulling everything, and I'm like, how did you get to be that high CP and act like this?
I just get into way too many groups that make me want to bail and I don't like bailing so instead I end up just not playing my tank.
Oh, and new content? Fuggetaboutit. I'll go in with my spouse and companions to learn the content. Doesn't matter if it's day 1 of the content, DPS acting like they snorted a line just before the que popped.
I don't play a tank to be stressed out because people have no etiquette. I'm not trying to play at a snails pace either, I just don't want to act like we're doing some time trial.
It bums me out. I love tanking but tanking for randoms is kind of miserable in my book. That's just how I feel about it.
The big issue on this, bigger than the faking itself, is the broken dungeon finder that won't find you a replacement for 15 minutes+. So if you get a fake tank in a vet dungeon, you got the option to make do with that one, kick him and only have 3 people for probably the remainder of the dungeon or you leave yourself and get a penalty for it.
So, first step to solving this issue would be to fix the dungeon finder, else it's far to easy to get hold hostage by some idiot
I have 4 tanks. It's the best way to quickly queue and get those transmutes. I have certainly felt what others are saying regarding fake DPS at times during those really long boss fights.
yup this is why I started tanking. Insta q's are fantastic
agree the worst is bad dps, I can handle anything else can tank and heal at the same time but the very very low DPS makes runs soooooooooo long.
i had one run that was really bad. i play main tank and ran with 3 strangers. during one heavy attack all three of my teammates died because the DDs didnt deal enough damage to kill the boss before that attack and where was the healer? at the front next to me getting killed. i had to somehow solo the boss because i didnt have the time to stay alive and revive my team.
To be fair, 1 tank/3 DPS is sometimes optimal if all are top tier players with good sustain and know the boss mechanics. Problem is, you can't trust PUGs when a lot of them are also fake DPS lol
Yeah sometimes I run 3 dps with my friends and I just put on Olo instead of a different set and we just burn the shit out of stuff. Obviously PUGs are not um... Capable of this
Imo you need a real tank for everything vet but you don’t need a healer for none dlc dungeons, if you have an off heal and you are most likely gonna be hitting more than both of the other dps combined queuing as a healer for a none dlc dungeon is preferable imo
I've noticed a lot of other mmos can't seem to make the tank role enjoyable so when I see a fake tank I get it but still get annoyed. That's why I try tank builds that are out of the ordinary like HTMs Ironblood vampire tank is my favorite
What about Alina (last boss in Wayrest Sewers 1), in vet having a fake tank can make it impossible since the back slash can insta kill dds...I, as proud healer, have vote kicked lots (even got vote kicked for calling them out in multiple ocasions)
Pd, I've always played as healer, I suck at other roles o.O
It won't instakill dd's, block or sidestep it
People need to learn how to side step, or roll dodge. I’ve soloed that on vet with a DPS character
@@Zeorymer300 B-but that's too hard for these people noawadays! We need more oakencringe and accessibility and bla bla boohooo
I have a range of Tank/Dps or Healer/Dps characters that all started as primarily DPS toons. When I queue as either tank or healer I make it my primary focus when in the dungeon but I still clock pretty high dps for the team. Usually 30-50% of the teams damage. However, when I do this it's ONLY in normal dungeons. If I queue for vet, I just go full dps and wait.
P.S. great content ;)
Solution. Guilds
Healing with oakensoul is actually really enjoyable to me. The constant Empower buff makes essence drain's heal hit harder than my burst heal. It makes sustain no challenge at all while buffing my heals, making me tankier, and even boosting my dps for some extra fun factor.
Me and my son just do all dungeons by ourselves. For the vet dlc dungeons i run a templar tank and he runs a warden heavy attack with his bar full of heals. Lotus flower is Op, every time he completes a heavy attack we both get a heal (nice). We study the mechanics of each dlc vet dungeon. After we got it down pat we can run most with just 2 heavy attack builds no tank or healer needed. But yes fake tanks and heals suck when you expect them and get trash instead.
Sometimes we will go into a trial with my tank and his Warden heavy attack by ourselves just to see how far we can get. We can get to the last boss on 1 or 2 but the DPS check kills us every time lol mechanics requiring a larger group stop us from exceeding too far in most trials. But if just two people could stand on the 12 pedestals and activate the next section we could go further into a lot of them lol non vet on the trials of course
Wtf? Just queue or find a party for trials. Don’t purposely ruin ur potential like that
On one occasion, I played as a full legit tank who contributed 35% of group’s DPS. It was the longest 1hr PUG dungeon. But everyone stayed till the end out of pure stubbornness.
Oh god, yeah I've had that happen a few times. It's painful
Lol I've done this on several occasions with my hybrid DK imperial pve tank build for solo content. Still 35k+ HP, near 30k resistance, 30k+ DPS with sword and shield front bar, two hand back bar. I don't trust anyone that much in PUGs from dungeon finder so I cover my ass myself. I laugh when I see the combat metrics numbers randomly showing me putting put 50%+ of group dps some times.
Then my regular non trial pve pure tank build... don't even need a healer 😂
This is why I main an oakenblade 2h tormentor tank. I can carry entire groups through most vet dungeons even some DLC ones.
Im a oakensoul necro tank 95 thousand hp mass hp regen high aggro and have carried people through some of the hardest dlc vet dungeons in game theres several viable oakensoul tank builds issue is you got people who are dps going in as tanks and healers so im a bit confused on this oaken isnt strictly dps
From my experience as a tank I keep getting stuck with dps going behind me instead of staying behind bosses legit running straight behind or infront of me and boss it's straight annoying
Oh and then you go dps slotting taunts maybe don't Do that
If your the pug queen, i must be the pug king all my dungeons are pug's. Ive seen fake everything, i just play as if im soloing. If the tank is good, i follow. I run oakensorc. Idont parse but in game i can crack 60k plus solo. Base game i normally solo. Vet dlc are etricky to pug. Xlnt vid cheers
Yup. Now I just play as if I’m soloing. They can be my support lol 😂. My companions are better than most I’ve grouped with 😂
You CAN play an oakensoul healer, and well. Sorc is not the class for it though, while the matriarch is a good punch heal, it's a one trick pony. Sorc just doesn't have the heal kit to support oakensoul healing. Warden is moderate, as you can heal with HA's with Lotus Blossom. Templars make great oakensoul healers though, with the heal kit templars have. Between warden/templar class heal kit, and the undaunted ball, you can do a great amount of healing as an oakensoul healer. As long as you are focused on healing and DPS secondary. I will typically only slot Wall of elements as a dps skill and dedicate the rest of my bar to healing/utility skills. I look at it this way. First, don't let anyone die. Once I accomplish that, it comes down do how do you contribute to the overall group DPS. Traditionally a healer contributes with group buffs. But if I can contribute more RAW DPS, than I could by buffing the group, then that's a net gain (again, keeping the group alive is a must). Break it down.
I agree! You can definitely make legitimate builds with oakensoul for healer, or pvp healing. Those people are not an issue, it's the fake ones that are 😂
@@Azuraaaaaaaaa I agree. I also hate fake tanking healing. Kind of with a passion. I main tank as well, and I hate when I'm not tanking and we have a fake tank that doesn't even slot a taunt and the boss bounces around or goes after a DPS that the runs around trying to get away from it dragging it all over the place. Absolutely terrible for DPS. If you're going to fake tank, at the very least slot a taunt and control your mob!
As someone who does tanking and healing on harder content this is an issue that needs approach from multiple directions to get resolved. I'm constantly matched with people don't know the mechanics, don't put in effort and are fake rolling. I'm also constantly blamed and my build is questioned if the group is failing. It took me so many queues of Graven Deep to get matched with people who knew the mechanics and could do it on vet (let alone hard mode).
I fake heal regularly, though not with oakensoul. However I always begin the dungeon with a
if you're a fake you're a fake there's no middle ground, don't fake heal, don't fake tank, don't fake dps
@@kullinaama nah at high cp levels for a lot of stuff we are good with self heals and the tank can stay alive on their own. Not saying we can do the heal check stuff like bal sunnar or moongrave fane without a healer but quite a lot of other stuff the other dds and tank are happy for the extra dps.
@@madddasher the people who fake are usually the ones who do 0 damage
How u fake tank or healer???
@@madddasher Honestly IMP, given that you announce youre a fake and offer to swap to a real build if needed, I think thats fine
I love my HA oakensorc. sorry… I only queue as dps though. i have encountered people and guilds that sneer at that build. I feel sad tht some people need to feel elitist about how many bars & abilities they are constantly using. I think it says more about those people than the oakensorc.
I've been building a baby dk tank on the side, but to make the mental step to start running pugs with her as an new tank is so daunting to me. My heavy attack sorc has opened up so much new content for me, like Vateshran, vets, etc. I think zos should just take a look at their rewards structure for keys and transmutes, which invites this kind op behavior in the first place. Veteran players just want their daily keys asap, leaving new players to fend for themselves.
I never got the hang of LA weaving, my main NB still hits like a wet noodle. I avoided dungeons like the plague for the longest time because I am anxious about my performance. It's annoying that this game has such a weird high and low ceiling at the same time. There is no real sense in progression into more difficult content for newer players. A fresh lvl 50 cp160 can dive into a vet dlc pretty much without any training beforehand. Yeah at low lvls not all dungeons are locked until you lvl up. But the journey to cp-160 is so quickly that many players I guess jump in underprepared.
That and the fact that there are no ingame way to help players get the basic of support roles. There are no training dummies for healers or tanks after all. Pair that together with the increased responsibility that you get in a support role and the attitude that players can have towards less stellar performances of the more inexperienced and yeah. We get the PUG culture of today.
signed: a HA sorc that patiently queues as a dps.
So much this! I made a tank about 2 years ago, now like CP 1800 but still am too nervous to tank outside of a WB. Too much pressure to be "the" tank and even though I want to be a "real" tank (and have researched/gathered skills/rotations to use, etc), I feel like I will just be a "crappy" tank and crumble under pressure, plus I get stressed about having to study mechs of wherever I will end up. Much easier to be DPS even with a squishy toon and just blend in with the other mediocre DPSers, lol. I feel we really need more support role training and dummies.
So much this. The learning curve as a tank can be brutal - you're basically expected to know the mechanics of the dungeons because usually, you're the one dealing with them. And if a boss runs wild or one-shots you because you didn't know that thing, you're the one being blamed.
And learning that within the game, is next to impossible. You get normal dungeons unlocked, but with one or two levels gained per dungeon run, you'll never see them all before hitting 50. They also have fewer mechanics (esp. the dangerous ones), and the ones that are there can often just be ignored. And most importantly: people just run through normals these days without looking left or right. There's no time to see anything that's happening, you barely keep up.
It's really no wonder noone wants to tank.
As a fellow tank and healer, completely sign this. Though Healing isn't boring o.o Miss Azura. The holy restoration staff is merely too powerful, that's why your tank died XD also I think it's funny how Supports are always at fault for everything even when 90% of the time it's on the DD's
Dont know why I got this in my recommended, but this is a large part of why I quit eso a few years ago. I primarily loved running dungeons and the culture in dungeon queue is just so bad, especially with fake roles
exactly with clueless monkeys who know nothing about anything but still want a carry for their zaan mask
Being called a fake tank while learning and running base game dungeons has been turning me off from running any, and I'm running some of those dungeons to get better gear to better tank. The last time I ran one, the healer and I were being called bad and fake after the dps's died and the healer and I finished the final boss on our own ( I'm pretty sure we were both lower cp than the dps's too)
I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. 😔 Some people are just jerks. It's very obvious when someone is actually learning how to tank/heal, as opposed to a dps just faking their role, so it sucks that people are too dumb to realize that, and are too rude to not assist people learning to tank or heal
This is the big picture problem. People wanting to learn these roles, then getting called fake. An no in game-tell off system will fix that. I hope you get the gear, and experince you need for your dungeon running. Tank is a curve, but you can make your life easier with some moves and gear options, (rushing agony is a perfect example and a semi-easy to get set that will AOE-drag mobs to you, and get you to taunting things faster) (talons on a DK, portals on a warden, caltrops on a templar, totem on a necromancer- all great ways to control trash).
Tanking in ESO is more about controlling the battle field, and less about 'big stronk person against the dragon'- thats only 40% of the time, the 60% is getting the trash piled up and rounded up (but its more like rounding up cats with a hair dryer sometimes when you first start to learn).
Learn tanking on world bosses. Honestly if you don’t understand basic tanking by your first dungeon. You’ll probably never get it. Tanking might just not be your strength
@@Zeorymer300 I understand how tank for the most part. The trouble now is getting better gear from dungeons to help more. My luck keeps putting me into groups who think I'm fake when I struggle a little in boss fights or when I'm not keeping up because I want to listen to the dialogue/story of a new dungeon/ dungeon I've never ran before.
Fake tanks/healers are bad but just straight up garbage tanks make me irrationally angry im making one so I dont have to deal with people who cant tank taunt or bash the boss ever.
That is exactly how and why i started tanking lol.
Back when i used to play alot i got so many damn fake tanks it was tiring. I started as a dps but because of ques i decided to make a healer character but whenever a fake tank joined i ended up pulling double duty and had to be a healer and tank because the "tank" didnt have any taunts, damage mitigation or any tank related stuff. Me on the other hand could do so much healing the incoming damage didnt matter.
For most dungeon content, an Oaken sorc with healing orb and twilight suffices if you want to queue as a healer (if there aren't any health absorption mechanics); you could also combine Sergeants’ Mail, PA, and echoing vigor to provide a buff to the other DD's and still contribute to damage.
@GangGoon no.
Ok go heal vSG HM
Isnt twilight a good healing skill i dont get it.
@@Joe_doesnt_know I would say that it isn't enough, hots are not only essential for your group's survivability but you should also be supplying synergies if you do decide to queue as a support.
Both criteria are imbued in a skill such as healing orb.
@@Joe_doesnt_know oakencringe sorc spotted
In the last 6 months or so I've seen more youtube videos say things like "just queue as a tank or healer to get in faster"
I run oakensoul sorc, I enjoy its simplicity, I also queue as DPS. Quite a few times I've had to pick up the slack
I main tank and made ha sorc dps which run 3 heals: orb, vigor, pet, i can switch to pure dps depends on content i wanna do, i think oaken helps alot, me and my group manage to complete some trifectas dg with that build. My opinion is as long u can keep team alive is good enough.
Great video! You nailed it! Been having these same thoughts. Also been calling out the fakers as well. As well as trying to get them kicked
Imo healing is a lot more fun than tanking, i say this as a tank main lol
About the BCII stuff.... Do NOT taunt the boss... Only taunt Daedra and keep them on the round platform in the back. If you get hit by a bubble suck it up and hold block. Don't move out from platform to cleanse it. Tanks can take that.. But dps need to kill the boss.. (at least they won't have fire breathing on them from everywhere... ).
I love how some fake tanks also use pale order and forget they can only be healed by themselves. Tank: "Heal me, dude. Why aren't you healing me?" Healer: "WTF? I am!" Tank: "Uh, oh."😂
In this game Tanks are supposed to heal themselves.
The only "heal" tank need is a Blood Fountain but even then just as an "oh $h!t" button.
Tank may need resources from the healer in the long fights but that usually means that tank is not experienced enough.
ESO desperately needs a Group finder system such as in WoW and Gw2.
No. Just no. It’s no different than matchmaking and matchmaking is way better. I hate the system in gw2 and newbies never get allowed in wow mythics when you’re learning the low lvls cuz ppl wanna speedrun
I personally love support roles, but I never cue for anything! The problem is not effort, its people who place undue expectation and blame or are unwilling to accept a person's learning process. Moreover, if one doesn't have experience like me, no one wants you! I realize this is exactly address issues raised here, but it's a partial answer. People in part fake roles because of an exclusionary and even elitist mentality of many of the more experienced players. As for the only trial I have ever done, props to the person who asked for members in zone chat, all levels accepted, and guided us through Sunspire allowing me to share tanking with him in order to learn! truly epic ;)
I’m curious, I use oakn on my healer but I use 4 aoe hots and a burst heal on my bar. Would I be considered a fake healer?
no definitely not, i'm talking specifically about oakensoul dps who think they count as healers because they use the winged twilight pet or another similar heal
I play a Healer/DPS warden main just for PUG DLC vet dungeons. My default sets are spell power cure, orders wrath and magnum incarnate or symphony of blades monster sets. I can carry most groups. Oaken soul doesn't really belong in group play. It's a selfish set for solo play.
And honestly i think the solution is actually very simple and viable. I get you 100%, and I do share your hatred for fake roles. The solution in my opinin is a reward and punishment treatment by the game itself. What i mean by that, is somethig similar to what FFXIV has. When the group content ends, such as trials, dungeons and even pvp, you have to option to vote out for the player that did best in your opinion. This is a way to incentivate players not only to play better, but to act better. Like being nice in chat. But ESO needs more than that... So i think it would also be nice to have to option to give a negative impact on other players as well. For example, giving us "reputation". When you vote someone down, like for being a bad healer or tank, they lose reputation, and this impacts him in ways like increasing their queue for that role. So lazy fake healer/tank that are just looking for a faster queue will lose that advantage.
This could also be worth for trials. For example, if you want to make a group for a hard content, instead of asking for there parsing, gears, etc, you can just check his "reputation". If you see his reputation is low as a tank or dps, you know something is wrong and you wont want him in your group. "But what about new players?" I dont think that's a issue. Since you have this interaction and power over the others, they'll adapt. Everyone will. And by that i mean they will call out when they are new, or they are learning, or testing something before they begin the content. Like when you are doing the dungeon for the first time and you usually say "doing quest" so they wait for you and dont screw up for you...
This reputation sistem could also have the option to vote up at lvl 1, but only unlock the option to get down votes at a especific CP. lets say you can only down vote someone from 160CP. Or a bit higher since you still only new to the game on that lvl. Maybe 300CP... This also prevents new players to get down votes when they are still learning. But, they'll have a incentive when doing something right!
It would also be pointless if players didn't have a reason to vote out someone. So, giving us rewards by doing so, like achivments with a new unlockable would help getting this system to be introduced and work. Achivments like "get X amount reputation/votes" and "vote out X players" with rewards like a new dye color, or a clothing, or skin, mount, pet, whatever. Just something to give us reason to vote up someone. Can even be a combo, like getting voted and vote.
Anyway. This give us all we need. It gives everyone good reasons to try new roles as this reputation can be role based, to be better as a player in game like learning how to play, as well as getting better with other players and community by being nice and more communicative, helps solve queue time issues with time and fake roles, gives something new to grind. Its a win win
I'm a few months late, but i hope this idea still reach someone
I do fake tank everyday once a day on normal random dungeons, just to get my 10 daily transmute. but I always change one skill for a taunt skill when I fake tank.
I think there are two ways to fix this problem because it's two fold.
One, new player experience: I think this one could be fixed so easily by just having the option to queue with never players, I made a forum post about this all the way back in 2019, and WOW has had this option since before then. Basicly when queueing up, veteran players gets the option to be more likely to be qued with new / inexperienced players. This way new player wont be queued up with as many fake roles and people rushing through. I also don't think there needs to be a rewards structure, there are plenty of people out there that likes to teach new players. No one really mind fake roles on normal otherwise.
Second is the fake roles (in veteran content): I think the fake roles has the root in one problem: extremely poor performance of the average dps players. The reason there are no tanks and healers in the queue, is that dps players queueing up often do less than 20k dps. The only way to fix this problem is an elo system. Which is probably going to not be the most popular solution, but if you had an elo system, more real tanks and healers would queue up, and that would automatically lead to less fake roles. Other games use gear score as elo etc. In ESO you could simply base it on veteran achievement points, or recent veteran content clears.
those are some good ideas, i like them!
Damn, I fake queue as a tank in normals but never would in vets. People really fake queuing in vet is kinda cringe
yes, that's why eso community is trash nowadays, just lazy oakencringe everywhere
I get where you coming from but having a healer in vet dlc dungeon is a huge dps loss and waste of time. It's better to have 3 dps and 1 tank to burst everything down. If things die fast there's no reason to heal.
actually having a healer that can buff the group and provide things like SPC, MA or Pillager's along with whatever buff sets the tank is wearing is better than running 3 dps. it's a dps loss for dps to have to slot a heal themselves and a good healer will be able to still do about 15% of the group's overall damage on top of buffing and healing. running 3 dps was only good when the pale order meta was a thing
I know very late!
I spend an inordinate amount of time helping new players. One of the things they tell me is that other players ( probably, but not assuredly vet players) tell them that ' Healers/ Tanks' aren't *needed* in Normal Dungeons and Trials. So they never learn their role before they get to vet.
I saw someone tell a newbie this in a Random Normal I was doing on a lowbie. I took a screen shot of the newbies name and then whispered them and told them I'd be more than willing to give them some tips and pointers towards Healing when we were done.
I spent 2 hrs answering questions , making him some armor/ weapons to research and showing him how to pick the right dungeon and drop sets. Not to mention crafting some sets to wear then research.
2 yrs later he's running the vetTrial progression group in one of the guilds we both belong to and teaching others... though he's switched to Tank.
I don't run VET Dungeons and Trials more than once anymore due to arthritis in my hands ( and that's on my DBL PetSorc)... except every once in a While when a Healer is really needed, I'll pull my Necro Healer out... Guilld only and I remind them he's not close to Meta, he's what I can run.. nope no Oakensoul, just an AOE based Necro Healer, so please don't run away from my AOEs!! But yes he can heal vet DLC Dungeons and Trials.
But that's my take on why many new players dont want to run support roles and even when they do they get discouraged and just quit when they get to Vet levels and get wenched at because they don't know their role.
It does make me want like
some sort of check for when you queue for healer or tank
idk what that check could even be however
I’ve had a fake tank and or healer every time I do veteran Falkreath hold. It frustrates me because with a real 4 person group the content would be so much easier. It’s gotten so bad that I swap a dps slot and ultimate on my back bar for group heals when I go into it now as a rule. This lowers my dps output and slows the whole process down. Frustrating, but better than being constantly wiped.
"Oakensoul is not the problem, the problem is the jerk who queue for a fake role."
Word.
Oakensoul is part of the problem, it allows players to be lazy to the point they don't even care about doing anything
@rym419 Yes you're allowed to play the game like a coward, still makes it sad
@rym419 I can already tell you're one of those veteran content leeches
@rym419 And not hating on all builds and classes, just hating on braindead leeches like you who are lazy and can't pass 40k on a dummy
@rym419 Actually I own the game, I bought it, I can say what I want
Whenever you queue as a fake healer atleast tell them to equip some healing abilities
Hey thanks for the video on this important topic. I admit I have been called a fake healer and no not because of oakensoul but because of inexperience. You touched on this in your video that you also had a learning curve to get the tanking or healing right, so while there are plenty of jerks that fake just to get in, there are also many of us who try and would like to be better healers or tanks.
Can you share what you have learned on how to become a good healer or tank for those of us that really want to get better at it?
I would also point out that as I experienced myself during the recent event, random groups often lack cohesion and do not work as a group, but all to often try to sprint through a dungeon to the final boss leaving players behind. So we really need more awareness of dungeon etiquette in general. Cheers
Thanks! I've had a few people request a video like that and I've been tossing up making it or not. I am by no means a god at the game so I feel like I don't really have the background to teach people stuff about tanking 😂
Yeah I for onw would appreciate your perspective on what has worked for you in tanking and healing; you don't have to be the best at it, but you have some xp. In absence of "tank college" we only have other player advice to go on for pointers and there are so many opinions out there. Ultimately we all have to figure out what works best for us but knowing the does and don'ts are not always obvious. I just heard for example in another video that it is not a healers job to revive fallen players and I totally thought it was.
Eso is the only mmo I played for any length of time and mostly casual solo stuff or the longest time, so not exactly a noob but still learning group dynamics and I am sure there are others like me that strive to get better at the group content. The only way to improve is by trial but then people get pissed because you are not perfect....
When use to play I loved being a healer. Never did the one bar fake thing though. I do remember back in the day a fake sorc healer came on without a resto staff. 😂
You dont need healers in dungeons and i dont want to wait 1 hour for a rnd
Dps Main here, my build depends on 2 bar builds for my sustain. If I get fake ques, I either leave or change my build to selfish mode.
Is it better to have a bad/new healer than a fake healer? Cuz that's one reason im afraid to queue and try healer role
a healer is a healer, regardless if you are learning or not! any healing is better than none at all :)
@@Azuraaaaaaaaa definitely true 👍. I'll have to give it another try . I'm a healer at heart 💚 just was too much pressure lol
Only time I've done the OakenHealer is for Normal Daily Random dungeons. Full healer bar with heavy attack gear. Works for the normal, and hits like a truck.
Genuine question: I'm a newer player to MMOs in general. I want to tank, because that playstyle and role are cool to me. But how do I practice tanking, without queuing for real dungeons and potentially ruining someone else's run because I don't know what I'm doing? Like, I want to learn and get good at it. It's just I feel the best way to improve is doing real dungeons, and yet videos like this make me think I'd be a burden when I'm trying to tank and learn at the same time.
I'm a healer main, and casual tank. I'm always cautious asking if anyone in chat if they need a tank, bc most of the guilds i'm in are starving for tanks. And most of my tanking experience has now been vet, sometimes taking an hour or two to learn. All this to say, tanking is scary af give it a try. XD
I run oakenplar healer, and it's quite effective, strong h.o.t. and 30k combat prayers while buffing with spc and p. Assault.
The only time I struggle is when the dps disappear to the other side of the room or run in b4 tank.
Although I definitely believe it will be out done by proper warden heals
I'm with you I don't use mythics either, I'd rather be challenged in ESO than rely on a mythic for buffs, just saying it's my opinion. If I want to play a game with a mythic such as buffs I will go play The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim SE with ring of God mode
EDIT: a potential solution to this would be to add more ways to farm transmutes. I only fake RNDs because I need transmutes to fuel my constant build ventures, I don't care much for the XP anymore.
I love tanking but I only have one proper tank. Rest of my characters either have a good defensive PvP or solo build, so I slap a taunt on them and call it a day. I only ever fake random daily normals this way, its usually faster with all dps anyway, but if my makeshift solution doesn't work I just bring out my proper tank so that I don't ruin the run for others who have been waiting... is it even faking if I taunt? to me it still is lol.. but yeah. I do it to save my own time for the daily transmutes because I know I can still fulfill the role or I have a backup, but why anyone would do that in vets is absolutely beyond me.
If ZeniMax fixed the que system maybe it wouldn’t be as bad but I think you would still see those type…I was told when I complained about a vet dlc dungeon having no heal “you suck your build sucks you should have a heal” isn’t that why there are healers in the game?
honestly i agree with you and i normally run support roles my self and tend to have back up builds as healers or debuffer on my dps wich is probly why i love my wardens so much
I think fake tanking in the daily randoms is still the worst offender. They should stop giving the same rewards for normals as for vet and separate dlc from base game(at least on vet). Whenever I level a new character and have to run daily randoms on normal for the XP it's just awful to see people(CP2000+) sucking the ZOS tit to get those transmutes.
How do you make support roles more fun? Give players a bonus for having the right sets and skills, then using them in the dungeon!
A lot of what you went over I very much agree with but I sort of feel like the direction of the complaints is a bit skewed. Technically I’d qualify as a “fake” healer in my trifecta group, but I adjust how much I need to focus on healing as opposed to DPS depending on the incoming damage checks, in an organized group of reasonable players this is talked about and adjusted for accordingly. In PUGs the problem with pretty much everything is the lack of organization, what works for one group might not for another but unless the team is just melting everything or willing to adjust. So many people just seem unwilling to adjust to the group especially when its a one off run, which is brought to light via the queue system. It’s unadaptable players that are nearly always the problem, this just happens to be the most common version of that these days because of accessibility of oakensoul. Much like you pointed out, there isn’t really a fix outside just kicking players who won’t help the group, but that’s an individual player problem to me more than anything else. Very well done video
I'm working on a tank and healer build. I never once played as either in a group, or ever for that matter, but I know what it's like when one of them sucks. I don't want to suck so I'm learning what makes a perfect healer/tank build and what skills are the best. I'm 1400 cp so you would think I was a fake one, when really I have no idea how to play as either, but tank I understand more.. I wouldn't have problems being a tank I don't think. Healer not so much.. You said the reason why I've never played either.. Damage is the most fun. Only reason I'm learning is because my guilds are always looking for one last minute to play a trial I want to farm.
All the best with learning how to tank and heal! It can be a bit of a learning curve, and jerks will be rude to you, but don't let them get to you and find some people to give you some advice and help if you don't already
Agreed with the vet dungeon assignments. This has been a problem since I started playing years ago. Peeps that can't DPS either. I have been a healer as long, and the amount of toxic hate I have received is not good on my game play. After getting fake tanks and fake healers in the same dungeon I tried a tank healer build but ended up getting non DPS peeps. The problem again has been a problem for years, go look in UA-cam for the evidence.
So I have stopped doing vet dungeons as it became not fun anymore. Now I just heal in a normal dungeon for my random, but the build has the damage if needed (which it is when you play with low levels)
Heal normals in an oakensoul hybrid, do 70% of the dps and still provide support buffs. I set myself up in Sergeant's and just swap out the 2nd set for SPC. Obviously not all the time will you do most the DPS but if the dps is low you will at least be able to mostly carry the DPS in normal. On vet, that is another bundle of kittens. I too found doing randoms less fun or end up filling my ignore list with more toxic twits than it can handle and just don't bother pugging.
I mean you don't need a healer in most VetDLC either and if you do your really bad.
Lol ok go do a vet moongrave fane or something without a healer. The amount of groups who can't even get past the first boss 😂😂😂 the newer dungeons need healers too because incoming damage is ticking higher now because people started running without healers
@@Azuraaaaaaaaa that's how I did earthen root, one tank 2 ha sorc and a dk.
@@fallen5771 yes but if you are running a traditional group where dps don't slot a heal (because they shouldn't because it's a dps loss) then you 100% need a healer. if you want to just melt bosses then you are 100% better off running a healer than not because of buffs, sustain, etc.
I'm not going lose dps because you can't do your job boy
Another thing on this topic is when these same heavy attack oakensoul sorcs queue for PvP battlegrounds. It feels like you enter a 3 vs 8 and it’s like getting into a vet HM dlc dungeon with a fake role you can’t kick. It ruins the fun for PvP players and is super annoying since if pvpers enter vet dungeons on PvP builds we get called out and kicked. Biggest change I wanna see is a kick button on battlegrounds
which addon display block/boss abilitys and their respective icons?
Like the combat alerts? I use code's combat alerts, crutch alerts and raid notifier
There are way too many of them on the rise. Yeah, I believe you can be a healer and tank with oakensoul build, gives that you prioritize the role you signed up for. I have done it all, being a proper vet trial healer and tank and an off healer/tank. Keep your taunts up and don't die. That will do. Problem is when these fakes can't even dps properly. When I run a healer I end up having 41% group damage, which shows how bad these fakes are.
Hi, anxiety ridden human being 1882789272 here. I've always been a DPS for the sole reason I can rely on myself for my success in content as a DPS. I can add healing skills, damage shields, MORE damage. I can do everything if I want, thought mostly in solo play (which I mostly do).
Healer and Tank? Well I'd have everyone looking at me, judging my every move and complaining if I mess up. Whenever I queue as a DPS as everyone should be doing if set for the role, I always hate seeing healers and tanks say "sorry" or "my bad" in chat. I know how hard that shit can be, and sometimes my fellow DPS has the brass balls to comment on their poor effort. My man, you and me press multiple buttons and do big number, our brains aren't very large compared to the players who need to: 1, keep everyone alive. and 2. Learn every mechanic, see every block action, rotate bosses, keep them positioned and also healing themselves when needed.
To my fellow DPS.. Don't be a dick to your supports and tanks. They're better than us. Thank you.
As Tank i stopped queueing for vet dungeons due to low dps and people not being able or not wanting to learn the dunheons mechanics
Fake heal on vet graven deep. I felt that pain from here. Ooof!
It's sad you have to put like a 60 second disclaimer at the start of the video because people will bitch about anything.
Fake roles are ruining the Dungeons in ESO, it's a huge issue that needs to be addressed.
It's not going to be addressed because zos like their casual lazy playerbase to keep milking money off of
I play a one bar build characters and I don't use oakensoul. DPS only by the way. Most of my deaths are do to me zigging when I should've zagged. LOL! I have had share of both fake tanks and fake healers. I once had to fake tank a dungeon when the actual fake tank got passed, after we called'em out, left. I was with my guild master, a great healer, and another dps fighting the last boss on a vet hard mode, base game, we survived because of our great healer. By the way my character was a squishy sorcerer with around 20k health. 😅 By the way, the only taunt available to me was the one from the undaunted skill tree. I can never remember the name of it.
What healer class do you recommend for new players and new to eso but veterans to healing
i think warden is a really good option for healing, but templar can be good too if you are just starting out and want something very straight forward