Thank you for this! Dostoyevsky has been a big part of my adult learning experience and I guess to a lot of people too so we would appreciate more about him and his philosophy from you 😃
Absolutely wonderful audio! Thank you. I've read most of Dostyevsky's works but I love your interpretations, so definitely interested in hearing more about his works.
I am coincidentally reading this book these days, so I will listen to the ep after I finish it. But it's just warm when you're feeling low and someone you admire drops their new work. Favourite philosophy podcast 10/10 would
I would definitely love more. I feel like the underground man a lot of the time. Could just be my depression, but I ruminate on the same stuff. I know my own perceptions are just as much an illusion as anything else. So who do we trust? Ourselves, others, the collective? I suppose it's just our choice at some level.
I read this book few years back in my 20s ,i was shocked, shocked by how wonderful someone wrote my inner thoughts on paper , every sentence roughly speaking was me talking loudly.
I am struck by something Simone Weil noted in _Waiting on God_ as I learn something about the main character in _The Underground Man_ --Weil observed that those most severely injured during war would often not only refuse care but would even direct open hostility for those most readily able to offer assistance... Dostoevsky seemed to have pronounced that very chord in literature. ... _make me a channel of thy peace, that where there is darkness_ ... West, thank you. Dostoevsky is hardcore. I have read him once before but Weil is new to me. I thank you for that recommendation. I am gonna make a run at a belated wedding present to Nora; Joyce's _Ulysses_ I am on borrowed time and I am gonna pack as much into the stream of this life as I can. All of my finest teachers have demanded as much. Thank you, West. Sincerely.
I started listening to it in the background, and at first I thought it was about “Crime and Punishment” - so many similar ideas were there. But then the differences began, and I had to re-listen :) Really awesome analysis! Subscribed
My go to book. Great choice. Big D and the piano 🎹 key. People will always go against rationality and the grain. I have done it myself so many times via the roll of a 🎲; nothing better.
Damn I appreciate ya. Reading Walter Kaufman’s Existentialism collection: and it starts with this text-and so I recently just read this. Good timing ☕️
There is these things we see, lit up by light. We look out and see these objects and judge them. We see we are an object so we judge that as well. If we judge we will have a problem. The light doesn’t judge. We our not the lit we can be the light, and stand on the event horizon between two as one. Some times falling back into the black hole of judgment, pain and laughter before climbing back to the silence and grace. That’s my delusional judgment 😊
oo, quite like this book! read it aroundd the same time i started listening to ur podcast, about a year ago precisely. read it in-between crime n punishment and the brothers karamazov.
When i read the book, i couldn't help but notice how many times he mentions his own self-consciousness as a sickness or cause of misery. It made me think about how important it is to connect with others instead of sitting in a narcissistic puddle of woe. Easier said than done. I interpreted underground man's (UM) discussion of the stone wall as purely a critique of a sort of nomological and abstract realism. He brings up laws of nature(most people take these laws to be brute facts of our world) and then proceeds to question them. That he questions them is, to me, a sign of an epistemic rationalist move to skeptically undermine laws of nature and math. I think it shows he's so reclused in his own mind that he can't fully accept anything that doesn't originate from it. Might be a hot take.
Would you consider the possibility that the prostitute is not demonstrating unconditional love in the book? Like everyone else, she might view her relationship with the underground man as a transaction, one in which she feels good for helping him-for being a "martyr," in a way.
The Sacred Prostitute is a literary trope. It goes back to ancient times (North Africa, Egypt, later Greece). There is volumes of scholarship on the sacred prostitute. A lot of Jungians know the trope before they finish their education. Be well.
@viniciusacmauro I have considered the question. I think, the narrative arc collapses and fails to reach its pathos if we position the prostitute along a narcissistic spectrum. My positio is that the piece resonates in part because of an attempt at an empathetic connection extended by the prostitute. West has mentioned in a few episodes the darker motivations behind public aultruism but as it relates to the current work, it seems motivated by an intrapersonal appeal to empathy. Otherwise, the reading is too bleak and easily dismissed.
@@ericjackson-nq4hp perfect. But my take is that I don't think it is possible for humans to demonstrate empathy like she does without a single positive reward, and that it doesn't make actions less noble. The Underground Man could have his optimism restored just by her capacity and desire to do good.
@viniciusacmauro haha, be kind to that man in the mirror. Check this out; when Dante first made it to Paradise Beatrice straight smacked him, figuratively speaking. What she said was that Dante wasn't always faithful to her and she was right. The Underground Man's girl ran away - whatever her motive was, she wasn't gonna stick around and be abused. Even a shared Humanity has its limit.
Is that how Jordan Peterson taught it to you? Almost as patronizing as LAO ZI = Lazy. Grains of truth for sure but still...arent you are punching down at nothing?
@jasonhill9247 devaluing West will not elevate your status. Language is not a neutral medium that passes easily into the private property of the speaker's intention. --Bahktin You're arriving well past the hour at which this discussion begun. Regrettable. You are, I hope, the last individual i encounter in this domain that links Dostoevsky to nothing. Embrace more of life, live less narrowly. You haven't much time remaining.
@jasonhill9247 don't get it twisted, you need understand; Jeezsus, West is not your personal chef, Jeezsus, dude. West doesn't owe you a thing, you got it twisted. If you can't extend even tacit respect before a massive body of scholarship flowing from Dostoevsky then you're right; I'd probably have some gripes too but that would nevertheless be none of our problems per se, that's on you. Linking West to Jordan Peterson? what is wrong with you? Passive aggressive much? Lazy too, no doubt in my mind. Enough. Embarrassing.
Did it occur to you that advertising Russian literature in the time when Russia is waging genocidal wars, and utilises culture as a way to attract more sympathetic opinions is controversial?
@@khulegubuyandelger8140let’s talk about how much coloniser’s culture is complicit in coloniser’s crimes. And how well is it utilised to whitewash, if not to justify imperial ambitions
I love you, Stephen West.
Strong. But can't blame you
The under ground man would 😊
Please more Dostoevsky, this was a great episode!
Thank you for this! Dostoyevsky has been a big part of my adult learning experience and I guess to a lot of people too so we would appreciate more about him and his philosophy from you 😃
Stephen! I was the one who emailed about Dostoevsky! Thanks for this…
This podcast keeps me going. Cheers!
Please continue with Dostoevesky
Yes!!
Absolutely wonderful audio! Thank you.
I've read most of Dostyevsky's works but I love your interpretations, so definitely interested in hearing more about his works.
I am coincidentally reading this book these days, so I will listen to the ep after I finish it. But it's just warm when you're feeling low and someone you admire drops their new work. Favourite philosophy podcast 10/10 would
Are you that king who translated Hollow Men by TS Eliot?
Do you believe in signs? It's fun to imagine coincidence is something more than chance.
I would definitely love more. I feel like the underground man a lot of the time. Could just be my depression, but I ruminate on the same stuff. I know my own perceptions are just as much an illusion as anything else. So who do we trust? Ourselves, others, the collective? I suppose it's just our choice at some level.
I read this book few years back in my 20s ,i was shocked, shocked by how wonderful someone wrote my inner thoughts on paper , every sentence roughly speaking was me talking loudly.
I am struck by something Simone Weil noted in _Waiting on God_ as I learn something about the main character in _The Underground Man_
--Weil observed that those most severely injured during war would often not only refuse care but would even direct open hostility for those most readily able to offer assistance...
Dostoevsky seemed to have pronounced that very chord in literature.
...
_make me a channel of thy peace, that where there is darkness_
...
West, thank you. Dostoevsky is hardcore. I have read him once before but Weil is new to me. I thank you for that recommendation.
I am gonna make a run at a belated wedding present to Nora;
Joyce's _Ulysses_
I am on borrowed time and I am gonna pack as much into the stream of this life as I can.
All of my finest teachers have demanded as much.
Thank you, West. Sincerely.
Brilliant episode. I have never thought of the character like this. You gave me a new perspective. Thanks Stephen.
I need to learn more, Its scary how much can relate to the underground man
I started listening to it in the background, and at first I thought it was about “Crime and Punishment” - so many similar ideas were there. But then the differences began, and I had to re-listen :) Really awesome analysis! Subscribed
Yes please do more Dostoevsky
This is so ominous. I just started reading it myself and this popped up.😮
Me too !
Holy cow, you just made my day!
I've been a nihilist since before I knew the word!
You can never go wrong with Dostoevsky
Thank you, more Dostoevsky please.
Absolutely love your work, Stephen! (From Malaysia)
This was a brilliant breakdown of Notes from Underground. Inspired to read it again!
This is the one I’ve been waiting for!!!
Good one, Stephen! Appreciated.
My go to book. Great choice. Big D and the piano 🎹 key. People will always go against rationality and the grain. I have done it myself so many times via the roll of a 🎲; nothing better.
That was great, more Dostoevsky please
Great video!❤ hope you do the brothers karamazov. Might need to be a few episodes!❤❤❤
One of my favorites! The Brothers Karamazov is his best but Notes is a masterpiece
Damn I appreciate ya. Reading Walter Kaufman’s Existentialism collection: and it starts with this text-and so I recently just read this. Good timing ☕️
I am a big fan of your program, first time i made a comment.. please please more of Dostoevsky please
There is these things we see, lit up by light.
We look out and see these objects and judge them. We see we are an object so we judge that as well.
If we judge we will have a problem.
The light doesn’t judge.
We our not the lit
we can be the light, and stand on the event horizon between two as one.
Some times falling back into the black hole of judgment, pain and laughter before climbing back to the silence and grace.
That’s my delusional judgment 😊
Oh this should be good. Gotta get the snacks out for this one.
oo, quite like this book! read it aroundd the same time i started listening to ur podcast, about a year ago precisely. read it in-between crime n punishment and the brothers karamazov.
My God... I am the Underground Man. :(
More by Dostojevski, and more literature analysis in general, please!
Thanks! This is all great stuff!
It would be interesting to include Lev Shestov in the discussion, who has written a great deal on Dostoevsky, Nietzsche and religion as well.
This episode has value even if you've already read this book, good job
When i read the book, i couldn't help but notice how many times he mentions his own self-consciousness as a sickness or cause of misery. It made me think about how important it is to connect with others instead of sitting in a narcissistic puddle of woe. Easier said than done.
I interpreted underground man's (UM) discussion of the stone wall as purely a critique of a sort of nomological and abstract realism. He brings up laws of nature(most people take these laws to be brute facts of our world) and then proceeds to question them. That he questions them is, to me, a sign of an epistemic rationalist move to skeptically undermine laws of nature and math. I think it shows he's so reclused in his own mind that he can't fully accept anything that doesn't originate from it. Might be a hot take.
I didn’t know you were on UA-cam too ❤
No way ! I just read this...
Me too!! Wtf!!!!
Great book love this book
Crime and Punishment, is both depressing and uplifting in equal parts. I would love to hear more about it.
The story of the underground man hits way too close to home. I need to be a different man.
Wow.
Is there a way to increase the volume in post? I have my phone volume up to max, but it's still a bit quiet for when I play it in the background
Great shit
The anticipation for the girl showing up to his house and not knowing what to do when she does was such a brutal read
Would you consider the possibility that the prostitute is not demonstrating unconditional love in the book? Like everyone else, she might view her relationship with the underground man as a transaction, one in which she feels good for helping him-for being a "martyr," in a way.
The Sacred Prostitute is a literary trope. It goes back to ancient times (North Africa, Egypt, later Greece). There is volumes of scholarship on the sacred prostitute. A lot of Jungians know the trope before they finish their education.
Be well.
@ sure, but that doesn't answer my question.
@viniciusacmauro I have considered the question. I think, the narrative arc collapses and fails to reach its pathos if we position the prostitute along a narcissistic spectrum. My positio is that the piece resonates in part because of an attempt at an empathetic connection extended by the prostitute. West has mentioned in a few episodes the darker motivations behind public aultruism but as it relates to the current work, it seems motivated by an intrapersonal appeal to empathy. Otherwise, the reading is too bleak and easily dismissed.
@@ericjackson-nq4hp perfect. But my take is that I don't think it is possible for humans to demonstrate empathy like she does without a single positive reward, and that it doesn't make actions less noble. The Underground Man could have his optimism restored just by her capacity and desire to do good.
@viniciusacmauro haha, be kind to that man in the mirror. Check this out; when Dante first made it to Paradise Beatrice straight smacked him, figuratively speaking. What she said was that Dante wasn't always faithful to her and she was right. The Underground Man's girl ran away - whatever her motive was, she wasn't gonna stick around and be abused. Even a shared Humanity has its limit.
We arent nearly that lame. We know why and when we annoy you.
And we are not worried enough about it to even be mad at you. If we were it would be for Covid, NOT highschool
Is that how Jordan Peterson taught it to you? Almost as patronizing as LAO ZI = Lazy. Grains of truth for sure but still...arent you are punching down at nothing?
@jasonhill9247 devaluing West will not elevate your status.
Language is not a neutral medium that passes easily into the private property of the speaker's intention.
--Bahktin
You're arriving well past the hour at which this discussion begun. Regrettable.
You are, I hope, the last individual i encounter in this domain that links Dostoevsky to nothing.
Embrace more of life, live less narrowly. You haven't much time remaining.
He’s punching me as I’m lower then a slug’s mucus
Devalue?? I love West too, it's an honest gripe.
@jasonhill9247 don't get it twisted, you need understand;
Jeezsus, West is not your personal chef, Jeezsus, dude. West doesn't owe you a thing, you got it twisted.
If you can't extend even tacit respect before a massive body of scholarship flowing from Dostoevsky then you're right; I'd probably have some gripes too but that would nevertheless be none of our problems per se, that's on you.
Linking West to Jordan Peterson? what is wrong with you? Passive aggressive much? Lazy too, no doubt in my mind.
Enough. Embarrassing.
Did it occur to you that advertising Russian literature in the time when Russia is waging genocidal wars, and utilises culture as a way to attract more sympathetic opinions is controversial?
@maribakalo3751 All governments are bad, _all_ of them are but the Russian people are not.
My guy, if a lot of people had read Dostoevsky in Russia, the war wouldn’t have started in the first place.
And if Putin listened to these pod casts.
How different things might be.
And if Putin listened to these pod casts.
How different things might be.
@@khulegubuyandelger8140let’s talk about how much coloniser’s culture is complicit in coloniser’s crimes. And how well is it utilised to whitewash, if not to justify imperial ambitions
16 minutes in. It’s scary how much this sounds like me last week to the past few years and likely still right now. 🥲
Yes. More Fydor!
I am a big fan of your program, first time i made a comment.. please please more of Dostoevsky please