Joyful Pessimism
Вставка
- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- It's even worse than it appears, but it's alright.
0:00 - Pessimism and personality
2:15 - Against regret
6:55 - Liberation from desire
12:17 - Answering a moral skeptic
15:24 - Embracing the illusion
19:30 - Pessimist PR
Philosophical Pessimism: ua-cam.com/video/pK91YWOLz_s/v-deo.html
Buddhist Pessimism: ua-cam.com/video/XnWVukn227A/v-deo.html
Schopenhauer's Pessimism: ua-cam.com/video/5MuAJ9OR0Vk/v-deo.html
Next topic: miserable optimism!
Looool this is gold!
Without wanting to pour cold water on your general argument, I would consider having taught a little philosophy to a significant number of people IS a serious contribution to the commonweal. I want to take this opportunity to say "thanks for the debate!'.
I appreciate the kind comments!
Your work is significant in so many ways. It guided my studies throughout my bachelors, masters and will continue to do so now that I am starting my PhD. You are a better educator than 99% of my Uni profs.
And that’s just facts
I'm really looking forward to your videos man. You matter and what you do matters to all the fellow pessimists our there that happen to stumble upon your channel. Thank you for what you do!
Thanks!
I also find some sort of joy, or more accurately solace, in pessimism. When I’m feeling down I read some Schopenhauer or Cioran, and it always cheers me up!
Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think
Enjoy yourself, while you're still in the pink
The years go by, as quickly as a wink
Enjoy yourself, enjoy yourself, it's later than you think
This caused me some anxiety but now I'm going to go seize my time
Where is this from? Is it your own creation?
@@tangerinesarebetterthanora7060 old, old song. guy lomardo and his orchestra did it, but i don't know who originally wrote it. a few different versions of it here on youtube
As a miserable pessimist myself, there is some ironic liberation to be found given the perspective for sure.
Max Stirner offers a different perspective of Egoism. Everyone is an egoist, even the one who devote their life for their loved ones. As any action we do is out of our own desire and satisfaction to do it, if we aren't satisfied of helping someone in poverty we wont help them in the first place. But if we help, it is out of the pleasure our EGO gains
Life is generally bad -> very low bar for a good life
Reading Schopenhauer and watching Kane’s videos always makes me joyful
One must imagine schopenhour happy😐
😐😐🤣
Yeah right
Thanks Kane,
This video is particularly helpful for me as I had many feedbacks from people about my pessimism including my therapist! But I struggle with explaining them it's the way I see the world rather than a psychological symptom.
I strongly believe accepting this make life easier and having some progress over upcoming adventures, like learning guitar or other art projects, or learning a new language with the hope of satisfaction as well as knowing that it will be temporary.
I believe pessimism is like losing religion, there is only way you cannot turn back, but definitely person can find a joy on that way. Feeling pressure from society about being pessimist is inevitable, and sometimes it creates some questions about yourself, but it's good to see other people like me, it feels good.
It looks like pessimism is a way of clever and brave people who have courage to stop lying themselves and not pretend to like we are center in the universe and our actions are meaningless in many ways. Sounds depressing isn't it, but as you said that is liberating!
Waiting for next videos!
Good video. I think "joyful pessimism" is a good example of an "everyday contradiction". People always ask me for examples when I say that contradictions are commonplace and happen all the time. But, I can never think of good examples on the spot.
Pessimism as an argument for dialetheism. Another cool benefit of pessimism!
@@KaneB Do you know Julius August Bahnsen, an arch-pessismist and disciple of Schopenhauer, who wrote a voluminous book on "the contradiction in the knowledge and nature of the world"?
Can you demonstrate the contradiction? Joyful pessimism doesn't seem contradictory, just that it demonstrates a disconnection between quality of life and the experience of the being (ie someone can be generally happy in a life of poor quality). Can you help me understand what I'm misunderstanding?
@@InformedZoomer it is good that it is bad.
Having recently had a big change of heart and shift in my thinking I find myself in very strange situation:
Philosophical Pessimism has really helped me judge (judgement and views are necessary and inevitable in life) life in general. However, before coming to these conclusions, I started ‘looking for meaning’ (thinking that I or my particular situation was the problem but life was good ofc) after clearly being dissatisfied with a successful corporate career I ended up teaching and training to become a licensed teacher in primary school. And some aspects I really enjoy, I dont hate children at all despite not wanting any of my own. I have fun with them and find working with them interestingly enough confirming my pessimistic outlook. Kids are always looking for confirmation but no teacher or parent ever connects this to the fact that life and being a self has no intrinsic value that can come into consciousness. The issue or course is, that it is quite a release coming to pessimistic conclusion yet having chosen this career path….There is a bloody contradiction there that im not sure I can live with in the long run considering how demanding the job is in the background of life’s futility and meaninglessness. Did anybody have similar dilemma’s??
Loved this video. Usually they don’t resonate with me (my interest in philosophy is pretty limited to stuff i find could be practically useful in life) but this really hit.
I don’t really have a creative outlet, which i definitely need, but I read a lot of non fiction and academic stuff and all that and I think I can see a shadow of what you mean by your constant striving with the videos.
Love your vids man!!!
I desperately need a tour of that bookshelf behind you
I appreciate your videos and watch them all. Probably because our views align well, and you explain them better than I do.
You really have made existence a touch more palpable everyday with your vids I’m so thankful I discovered you last year
This is amazing. You have expressed some thoughts lurking in the back of me head perfectly. Thank you. I feel strangely liberated from a heavy weight after this.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it
Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity. What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun? Ecclesiastes 1:2-3 KJV
I don't have much regret concerning past decisions, since the world would still suck a you've said; however it doesn't prevent me regretting for how the world could be.
I can totally identify in the way you describe your process. And even though the satisfaction each piece of work we produce is fleeting, little by little it builds up our confidence in knowing we can, if not so much as produce work others enjoy, at least satisfy _ourselves_ consistently. Also, there are diminishing returns to any hobby, which is why variety has a certain allure.
Sweet philosophy video. Loved it! EDIT: I just subscribed!
Benatar may not be one of them, but most of the so-called pessimists (starting with Bayle, Leopardi and Schopenhauer) write not only stimulating, insightful and disturbingly truthful, but also with a lot of humor, wit and a great sense of the absurd
Good subject!
Thanks for this video, Kane B. I have spent most of my twenties searching for happiness, through romantic love, through Epicurean philosophy, I converted to Anglicanism despite having been a lifelong atheist, and recently I sought out CBT (which is basically just modern Stoicism) training through the NHS. And although each of these has taught me something helpful, they haven't brought me what I would call happiness. These principles, especially the 'against regret' and 'liberation from desire', actually do bring me some peace and make me reconsider chasing happiness as I have been; perhaps that chase brings me more strife than just enduring what Freud called 'common unhappiness.'
Have you ever read Samuel Beckett? He had very much a tragi-comic view of life which always brings a smile to my face.
Unfortunately, I don't have time to read fiction. Or rather, because I have to read so much for my work, I never have the desire to read fiction in my free time.
Brilliant video and insights. I'm a big fan of yours Kane so I hope you don't mind a little push back.
1) we don't know for a fact that your work won't one day be as influential as any of the philosophical "greats" or even more so. If I heard a friend accepting defeat so readily I couldn't help but assume it was a defense mechanism in place to prevent disappointment if they were to take their craft to the next level. You're a brilliant man and I hope you won't allow such defeatism to deter you from fully applying yourself to your craft.
2) was it ge Moore who defined happiness as wanting what one wants? I think we easily fall into pessimism when we have narrow views of desire and happiness. I believe there are states of well being which are positive while encompassing some degree of suffering. Love to see you do a video on happiness!
Again thank you for the content you provide usp!
I don't really have the desire to be influential anyway. It might have useful practical benefits, but that's about all. The part where I discussed influence was more responding to folks who do think that a good life can be achieved through the impact you have on others. I don't much care about that; I'd be happy to live out my life in the experience machine.
I think pessimism follows given any of the standard views of well-being. I've had a half-written script for a video on well-being for ages now, but I don't know if/when I'll get around to finishing it.
@@KaneB well looking forward to the day 🙇♂️
The problem is focusing on the future or the past instead of the present.
Agreed. Along the same lines: "Comparison is the thief of joy." Wisdom lives within the capacity to be present.
I don't focus on the past or future and my life still sucks.
@@KaneBmaybe stop focusing purely on the negative aspects of life like pessimism and nihilism and your life wouldn’t suck? 😂 I know you’re a moral anti realist but you ought create a moral compass at least for pragmatic reasons
Pragmatism is the only real redeemer for people like you
@@mega4171 (1) I don't focus only on aspects of life that I consider negative. Your comment is striking given this particular video, because the whole point of it is to discuss positive aspects of pessimism (as indicated by the *title of the video*). So it seems you just ignored everything I said here.
(2) I don't see anything negative about nihilism.
(3) I do hold evaluative views. Again, this should be obvious given this very video, in which I discuss some of my evaluate views.
(4) Pragmatism is garbage.
@@KaneB pragmatism is the reason we have the technological success that give us computers and the internet.. Internet which allows frauds like you to say something as silly as “pragmatism is garbage”. You’re ironic at best, stupid at worst
Nihilism ultimately leads to silence, good luck
Looking back the more pessimistic I have become in my worldview the more joy I've found in my life. I kind of thought it was ruining my life, but I've actually gained insight as to what gives me happiness and meaning. I'm now in better position to pursue it without needless suffering. It's strange how the minute you stop searching for something you're then in a place where you're able to gain it. That's what happened to me at least. I love to acknowledge every bit of joy I feel no matter how little it is, when earlier in life I took it for granted. I'm very grateful now which fuels the good times even more.
It sure is a coping mechanism as is anything really, and it might be hard one to get into, but I'd wager pessimism overall protects you as well as any philosophy. Even now I'm laughing a bit how pointless this comment is and how writing it achieves basically nothing, but it sure gives me joy trying to connect with myself and others. I think pessimists really embrace the part how we are all story-telling creatures, since the story we tell is protected by grandeur that even in the midst of nothing there is something.
I'm also coming around accepting that I don't really accept anything. It feels freeing like nothing else does that I have very little control in life, nor do I even want it. Desire gets into way of being, but is being really that great without desire itself? There is no cure for existence, but anything to help with the disease is fine in my book.
So my journey from a miserable optimist into a joyful pessimistic has been as good as watching this video was. Excellent work! Be sure to keep finding joy and laughter in midst of pain and misery that is called living. I wish you well and thank you for your videos.
Your comment allowed me to have my own brief moment of serenity. Now, you can find joy in the fact that others might potentially find joy momentarily in your comments. If anything is better than acknowledging joy, it would be taking action and letting others know about your bits of joy (i.e., not taking them for granted). I must return to my chores now, but I wanted to thank you for the brief moment. Certain words will always have meaning to certain people.
@@anilatartn Well now I must obviously reciprocate and take action as well; thank you for the kind, true words and take care fellow stranger. Joy was definitely sparked. We're all in this together and don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise.
Im in. Been on it for years now.
Standard of living pessimism appears to hinge on comparative evaluation where the worry is where will the madness end. A better house entails parties at my place and a self esteem boost relative to others who live in appartments who may feel the need to affiliate and want to know how I make money for upward contacts that gives them hope or optimism where they too can get the house, but now I need a mansion and a luxury car. However quality of life pessimism seems to hinge on anomalies and quirks of hedonic life, like choosing to buy a recumbent bike because it makes me feel good although people seem to insult this mode of transport as insults hurtle from car windows. The quality of life pessimism is knowing I am going to be disagreeable with others and know that my investment may only give partial joy or none, whereas standard of living pessimism is knowing even if I host the party others may get ahead. However if I have done enough qualitative comparisons with past modes of self illuminating pleasure then quantitatively all things being equal there probabilistically is a tipping point. Non human primates know this too as way of getting the fruit and enjoying it, albeit before getting into a squabble over top alpha tree branch. This suggest that objective comparative pessimism that relies on measures of standard of living is fairly ridged as in its class structured in socioeconomic terms. However a loophole exists which has been exploited through deviance where cohorts of indicated subjects can leverage the system so to optimise their quality of life and in a sense do upward mobility by stealth. Deviance is a technical term in the sense that its the poor who aspire a standard of living need to serve the high net worth persons which are the bench marks for a good life but the deviant knows this is false, and so focuses on their own welfare by not participating in the system of rewards. The deviant is a prototypical pessimist of a state of affairs that biases a cohort in a population and so there is an argument for class based pessimism where the optimists want other to do the menial labour and be subordinated through downward evaluation.
Thats my star sign actually, i often time call myself a Pessimist of the future, and an optimist of the now. Just to not confuse people, because of my cheerfull personality, but my Pessimist philosophy
I consider myself a philosophical pessimist but internally I am quite happy. Like do I think we should bring children into this world? No. do I think things will get better? No. Do I think things are already fairly shite? Yes. Am I wage slave? Yes. Still, may as well try be happy despite my philosophical views.
Yo I am so inspired by the content you make and heavily thinking about going back to school to pursue a career in philosophy. Can you maybe shed a little light on the economics of that profession and what expectations should be?
My advice would be not to do philosophy with the goal of having a career in philosophy. You have very little chance of achieving that goal, and even if you did achieve it, frankly it's not a good career. It involves an enormous amount of work for very little pay and pretty much no long-term security. That's not to say you shouldn't do philosophy. But do it because you love it, and don't have any further expectations.
@@KaneB when you say it’s “not a very good career” do you mean in the traditional sense of publishing papers, teaching, and researching? Or are other alternatives such as writing, consulting, speaking, etc not very good options? Also is there any I’m missing that should be mentioned?
I really like this take. However I would say there a few conditions that can make life objectively worse - being in physical pain caused by disease, illness, deprivation or injury, and being in circumstances that ellicit extreme anxiety, such as being confined, coerced or under attack. So in my opinion it's about mitigating circumstances such as these to the best of our ability as well as being content with what we have
Hey Kane, loved your video - as always!
I agree that pursuing meaning and not happiness is the ideal way of life, or at least that's the most sustainable model. To paraphrase Zizek, "happiness is the side effect, it comes upon you."
As I understand it, you seem to suggest, that one will never be significant enough so doing things with the intention of inspiring change and pursuing greatness is not ideal. Does your argument hold for, say, Steve Jobs, Ernest Hemingway, Alexander the Great, etc? For people who weren't passively involved in their self-interests without worrying about the consequences but intended to achieve greatness and inspire change in the world and were quite successful?
No, but pessimism doesn't require holding that literally everybody has bad lives, so we can grant that a few people get lucky. Though, I think that fewer get lucky than it might initially seem; I certainly wouldn't want to trade my life with any of those three you mention, though all had a significant impact on others.
@@KaneB Oh, of course! I wouldn't trade my life with any of them either. I'd rather be my insignificant self forever. And as a pessimist and nihilist, I also don't think that pessimists or most people have bad lives.
I'm merely interested in understanding if people like those I mentioned could also be pessimists internally. As in can one have a deep-set belief that no matter how impactful one's work seemingly is, it's basically utterly pointless in the grand scheme of things along with the rather contradictory belief that creating impact and achieving greatness is possible?
Based on my current limited understanding, they can. But I'm not sure, that's why I asked you. Thanks for responding!
I have come to similar conclusions by way of nihilism.
outside of basics. if you have no house, any house is betr. _JC
I agree almost, whilst I have pretty much followed this mantra personally all my life (after I discovered it through reading about Buddhism and Indian philosophy): There is a crucial but.
This approach doesn't address laziness well.
It risks descent into a mañana oblomvian state, ultimately wasting the genuine privilege of being born with sentients, language, and all of the other benefits we enjoy.
Well honestly, I've found this video quite depressing. Not about the arguments, more because of you. Let me say that your channel (and of course you!) is not insignificant. It*s quite a accomplishment! Fify thousand people are subsribed. Your channel is not just some entarinment-show, it's educational, complex, quite spartanic in the presentation but the arguments are so well explained and structered that you*ve earned your viewers. Fity thousand people are many people. Imagine this audience in a lecture.
I don't think you can compare it with other those educational channels that are so flashy with those many cuts and songs and so on that. Those are more entertaining than educational. Pure academic educational channels are always small. And compared to them, to those "boring" academic philosophy channel, in my opinion, your channel is the best one. Your explanations are always flawless, straight to the point, structered. I*ve studied philosophy but I*m not nearly as good in explaining complex arguments as you.
I have an agonizing yet deeply fulfilling "parasocial relationship" with Kane B
Sorry for missing your food question. Most of the time, I eat very simple meals. I don't like cooking so I buy cheap ingredients that can be prepared quickly. For instance, I might boil some potatoes, and then chuck some vegetables on the plate with them. Or I'll warm up some beans straight from the can. I particularly like butter beans. They go well with eggs and avocado. Sometimes I'll just have a bowl of oats. If I'm in the mood for junk, nothing beats pizza.
@@KaneBaverage Englishman
@@KaneB wonderful thanks a million
No one in the world ever gets what they want and that is beautiful / Everybody dies frustrated and sad and that is beautiful. - _They Might Be Giants_
Nah. It's not beautiful. It sucks.
Maybe you've already answered this elsewhere, but what parallels and distinctions do you see vetween this position and Stoic ataraxia, or Spinoza's "intellectual love of God", or Nietzsche's "amor fati"?
Yup! But what if you look at the world and see ways to make it better? What if you can have a positive impact in the lives of other people? Because they are still having life experiences which are unpleasant, and you could change that. Isn't there a weight to the moral responsibility for having a positive impact on the world? I guess the trick is to pursue that without being attached to the consequences, but that's kind of tricky. Is it possible?
Sounds very Zen, very Stoic, (not be confused with stoic).
Stoic (pronounced stoyk). Not to be confused with stoic (pronounced stow-ick)
@@user-tx9so7om5t haha, right. I made the distinction to not confuse the ancient philosophy Stoicism and the temperamental disposition of being "stoic".
Stoicism says that you have a way out, if you live the right kind of life. Pessimism says you have no way out, because there is no good life. Buddhism says you have no way out, because there is no you.
@@KaneB I know nothing about pessimism. But it sounds interesting.
What do you mean when you say "no way out"?
Stoicism doesn't promise a life everlasting like Christianity. Buddhism (which I know very little about) seems like it does promise some kind of consciousness after death.
Or maybe you mean to say that there's no way out of the suck, the suffering in life? Stoicism says that one only suffers because of one's incorrect expectations of life.
But could you tell me more about pessimism? Thanks.
@@Efesus67 I discuss philosophical pessimism in more detail in the videos in the pinned comment. When I say, "no way out", I mean that there is no method by which you can achieve a good life. As far as I understand Stoicism, it says that there is a method for this, namely the practice of the virtue and the proper understanding of the natural order of things.
Joyful pessimism - sort of self deception?
Clothing donation.
Thank you!
9:38 You can sense for a moment the melancholy of his insight to be insignificant after all, that literally nothing of you will matter in 10 Mio. years and you’ll be forgotten by the universe. The more you age the more this idea will bother you…and there is no way out because what bothers you is your archaic self who doesnt care about reason but behaves like a 2 year old.
I know my like and comment won’t bring me or Kane any joy but I do it anyways.
Can you also give further reading recommendations under your videos? ♥
Kane, what a dark path of philosophy you’ve chosen. I pray your assburgers subsides one day
0:40 what if how you calibrate good and bad is just a reflection of your personality?
like a theist who is super optimistic and hopeful can look at starving dying children and say its a test from god and its so wonderful that god has given us this opportunity and how great it is that the children have experienced life yada yada ... you can spin 'bad' things to be good in all sorts of ways if youre just optimistic enough ...
I think the problem with this mindset is that it can lead to a lack of passion and incredibly boring, stagnant, and absurdly mundane life (even if your happy with it it’s still boring). Rather fail trying even in something that I don’t hope will do much good for my mental state then nothing at all. Maybe if you had the sort of joyful pessimism that made you just do what you want without thinking of the past present or future like the main character in the beach bum that would be better because at least then you would be doing something. Of course me thinking of this criticism comes from the fact that I personally wouldn’t like that life. I guess a joyful pessimist that leads that type of life would enjoy it though, even if it was boring. I also think it’s bizarre that you talk about unhappiness almost like it’s inevitable. Happiness isn’t inevitable but but unhappiness isn’t either. There’s still a chance you can say you’ll probably not find happiness but is that reason enough to not try?
I do just do what I want without thinking of the past, present, future. That was the point of the part towards the end of the video where I talked about self-deception. However, I doubt that the mundane life you describe would be much worse than a richer life, even if you desire the richer life. I don't think desires are particularly trustworthy; that's part of the point of pessimism.
I never said that people shouldn't try to find happiness.
Are you cold
Yeah, we try to limit the heating to save money
I like how this is one of the most regular comments on Kanes videos 😂
@@KaneBThank you. I am somewhat complete.
How do you deal with lack of motivation? I have such weak drive. I really don't know what I should do.
I don't deal with it. I squander most of my opportunities.
@@KaneBso inspiring
We pessimists are never disappointed because we always expect the worst. And so we're always joyful because you can't be disappointed.
That would be a benefit of pessimism for folks who fully embrace it. I think my tendency is to expect that I won't be disappointed *this time*, despite knowing that I was disappointed all the other times. Counterinduction FTW!
Eh I'll remember you. Perhaps vaguely but you'll stick
This sounds very much like Buddhist ideology
Only two layers of clothing in February?
I had more clothes but they fell off. My clothes fell off! Oh God! My clothes are gone!
Your pessimism reminds me of schizoid angst.
Hi Kane. Also a pessimist, but my worry is... well, basically that (with apologies to Angela Davis) we have to act as if change were possible. Take climate action - am I wrong in thinking that a joyful pessimist as you describe here would derive that joyfulness in part from the freedom from having to take (assumed-)hopeless action against that disaster? Doesn't the pessimism itself then become a self-fulfilling prophesy?
Well if we think about things as to have an effect for centuries, maybe it could work for a pyramid or a bronze statue. But many of our things have effects on lives on the day to day. If you put your energy into something, it already has it's value, and that's why pessimism makes no sense. Why breathe and eat if it has no meaning? Why haven't brought meaning into it? The human body itself is a marvel yet it is a struggle, but it is still beautiful.
can you called this optismic pessimism?
I guess that works!
Found your channel quite recently and i love your videos man. Love your passion. Be looking forward for more keep it up.@@KaneB
isn't this just buddhism
Pretty much, yeah