Finland was admitted to the UN on the same date as Ireland in 1955. It had allied itself with Germany during the war to defend itself against Soviet Russia, which had invaded it without provocation (hmm.. sounds vaguely familiar) in 1939. Finland successfully fought off the Soviets but was tainted by association with the Nazis. On the other hand Sweden, which had also remained neutral during the war, was admitted in the first tranche of UN member countries. During the war it had fed the Nazi machine with major exports of iron ore, tungsten, ball bearings and trucks. Sweden's "neutrality" seems a little more questionable than Ireland's. After all, joining the British in 1939 would be like asking the Baltic Republics to join Russia's war in Ukraine at the moment. The history of oppression makes the answer to that question quite clear.
We actually had a good number of planes and some had been modified mot only for training purposes but giving the airmen a advantage over other planes when they'll be under attack. The British plans had no trainers whom bought one from the Irish to copy for their own forces. Beforehand training was carried out with the instructor running alongside the plane in the UK and elswhere also armored vehicle had been sought by the UK and copied for service within British forces. The Irish by way had a sizable forces greater than 100 thousand personal at its hight both PDF and Reservist as a regular service personnel they were well equipped by modern standards back then. Even better equipped than some of the axis forces.
The Finns invaded the Soviet Union in 1941 and fought with Swastikas on their tanks. There is no comparison between the Finns and the Irish Republic. The Irish remained neutral but allowed their citizens to join up, despite memories of the Black & Tans and Churchill's culoabikity for atrocities committed in the Ireland. They didn't fight for the British they fought against the Nazis and their allies, which included the Ukrainian Banderists and OUN-B, Estonians, Latvian and Lithuanians. All of these enthusiastically volunteered for Waffen SS divisions, Ostbattalions and other Nazi units. And their modem descendents are still fighting under Nazi banners and ideology.
Interestingĺy the Irish didn't accept Jews fleeing Germany. Unless they were well off, they would drop them at the Northern Ireland Border and say to request asylum there.
Churchill said if he could stop the raw materials from Sweden to Germany, the war would be over Do not forget the German troops who went through Sweden. .
de valera 's course was little more than a fig leaf covering his boundless hate of england britain stood alone against imminent invasion by the most powerful military in the history of europe and survived by a thread, thanks to the RAF and an IRISH super ace named Brendan EMMON Finucane, whose name doesn't even get a foot note mention in irish history.
In not officially joining the allies it allowed England breathing space early on but remember if you look at the allied forces the amount of Irish men and women who joined in Britain, America and Australia and New Zealand were well over 100000 so just because the country was officially neutral doesn't mean the Irish people were blind to the horrific problems in Europe
Ireland's position regarding neutrality was just like that of The United States. The U.S. was neutral until it was attacked. Having been attacked by Japan it declared war on Japan. It did not go to war with Germany until Germany declared war on the U.S. As to the moral question, it was not as simple as portrayed in this video. Britain, France and the Netherlands each had colonies whose right to self determination was viciously attacked by each of those countries. Britain had colonies demanding independence, and Britain fought tooth and nail to prevent those colonies achieving freedom. France had colonies, Algeria and Vietnam, to name but two, who had to fight to gain their moral right to independence. The Netherlands had colonies that struggled against their oppressor to gain freedom. During World War 2 neither Britain, France nor the Netherlands recognised their colonies' right to freedom. Was Ireland to take the side of countries who insisted on oppressing those who were struggling for freedom just as the Irish had done not long before? The moral issues were far more difficult and complex than was mentioned here.
Militarily the Irish forces could contribute very little to Allied forces anyway. What Britain really needed was American involvement as this was a game-changer. ironically many Irish Americans were based as US soldiers in Britain and the North
@@fintonmainz7845 Always remember what Henry Kissinger said, 'in International Affairs there is no such thing as loyalties, only interests' It was in Irelands interest to stay out of that War.
I think there is a total failure in this video to understand the personal animosity towards Churchill, the colonialist, who in 1920 as Secretary of State for War in 1920 had sent the Black and Tans into Ireland where they undertook many atrocities. We also need to remember that throughout the 1930's Churchill was verbose in his opposition to Indian Independence, how must that have looked to those in the Irish Free State.
Thanks, but we mentioned the war of independence in the video, but I didn’t want it seem appear like because of a personal issues, DeValera lead Ireland to refuse to contribute to what was arguably the most evil force in the history of the modern world. While that may have been one reason, I think the other reasons mentioned were stronger. You can Checkout my video on the Black & Tans too.
@@ValorandVice Yes but there was a failure to acknowledge that Churchill had a big role in suppressing the War of Independence which I suspect made him a hated figure in Ireland, especially with his colonial credentials continuing throughout his 'wilderness years'. We have to remember that Churchill was not universally liked. Halifax was seen as being preferred by the Establishment to lead the country with Churchill mistrusted. In fact Churchill did not lead his party to any election victories until 1951 and even then he achieved less votes than Labour. As someone who is English I can see why de Valera's wanted to keep a distance between Ireland and a government led by a politician who would have had no scruples of throwing the Free State 'under the bus'.
@@ValorandVice Recent unveilings of Government Papers (in both the UK and Ireland) in the 20th century paint a far more complex picture of the relationship between the 2 countries. There is clear evidence of the animosity (personal) between Churchill and De Valera. That became public in 1938 when the British Government returned 3 deep water ports (Treaty Ports) to Irish control. When war broke out between Germany and Great Britain, the British Government requested renewed access but the De Valera led government refused. Churchill was apoplectic and very public in his opinions on the subject - and he continued in that vein throughout the war. His VE Day speech added to that invective - he could not resist hurling barbs at Ireland (never by name but, clearly implied) over the entire issue of neutrality. De Valera was no saint either - even today, there are sharp divisions in Ireland about the type of leader he was. However, I can understand the reluctance on his side to allow British Military Forces to establish ANY TYPE OF FOOTHOLD ever again on the island, given our history of subjugation, discrimination at the hands of the British. It is important to remember that between 1916 and 1922 Ireland underwent a prolonged struggle for independence immediately followed by a Civil War over the terms of the Anglo-Irish Treaty. 1938 is only 16 years on from that conflict and there is little doubt in my mind that had the Irish Government given the British Military access to those ports, we would have seen an inevitable conflict between sections of the Irish population and the British Military.
@ValorandVice 'The most evil force in the history of the modern world' lol. The Brits had just got done murdering 100 million people in India. And that was just one of their colonies. Churchill directly contributed to that too. The British elites had also been supportive of the Nazis upon their rise too. Here in Ireland the people of the early 20th century were only a generation removed from our own genocide at the hands of the British too. There is still an old workhouse down the road from me here complete with a mass grave from that time. Insitutions like that were literally an inspiration for Nazi work camps. Britain has just as much death and torment to answer for as any Reich. History didn't start at WW2.
@@ValorandVice I eagerly await your similar report about all other European countries (except France) which went to war with Germany before being attacked. When can we expect the next installment? Which country will you mention first?
@@markpower9081 oh yes they were indeed they were treated like dogs, out casts and lepers The irish government finally pulled their head out of their rear end after SIXTY EIGHT YEARS and granted amnesty in 2013 all for the heinous crime of standing up to hitler and saving all of ireland from a horrific nazi occupation, Never forget devalera's historic and shameful condolences to the german people, honoring the most evil man in history in 1945
@@JayJay-vb7om They deserted our army to go and defend the nation that tried to ethnic cleanse us from this world. If they fought for the yanks or Canadians or French that would be one thing. But they didn't.
It was true that in that horrific time anybody get fear of German offence. Even US was neautral for long time. So probably in view of Irish situation such decision was right.
I understand the rationale but the problem is that all of the known factors pointed to the Nazi regime sensing fear. Their philosophy was full of machismo. The Nazi belief was “ we are the master race” and they were prepared to bully and harangue - and it was even better , from their perspective, if they could get their way by being bellicose. Some of the comments I was receiving were along the lines that the southern 26 counties of the island of Ireland had just attained their independence from Britain so why would they fight for Britain. My point was that it wouldn’t have been fighting for Britain but against one of the greatest menaces the world had ever seen. Even though Southern Irish resources would have been meagre it would have been morally right to be on the side of the Allies. If independence was to mean anything it surely must have meant taking responsibility and not hiding behind the bigger Island from whom they had recently attained independence. One thing is for sure is that had Hitler got past the UK after the Battle of Britain - the next stop would have been Ireland to open up the whole of the Atlantic to the German fleet. It would have meant certain death for the small but significant Jewish and Traveller community on the island . And who knows where the rest of the Irish population would have ranked on Hitler’s weird ethnic league table. In any case Northern Ireland was part of the UK and played a full part in the war effort including serving in the Armed Forces but also importantly Belfast had some of the best Ship building and Aircraft manufacturing in the World ( they had built the Titanic ( it was ok when it left us. Blame the English Captain Ha ha ) but also some of the other greatest ships in the world. This meant that it was very heavily bombed. Although the South ( the Irish Free State) was neutral many served in the British armed forces like their Northern counterparts. Nonetheless there is always a debate surrounding the morality of neutrality. I’m not sure if it would have made much difference given the South’s limited resources but there was a worry that German submarines could lurk in the shadows of the Irish waters.
@@PaulJohnston-n5w There's mister "the south left the lights on, guiding German bombers to Belfast" "Independence was cowardice" "u boats getting refueled in Ireland" "Hiding behind the bigger island" Non stop drivel. Not a word from him about all but 2 European countries not declaring war on Germany before being attacked. Singling out "Southern Ireland" (sic) with his obsessive rant. Churchill really showed what a great alloy he was to Poland after the war. As to Northern Ireland: "Éire" was promised reunification if they joined Britain in the war. A great way of repaying Ulster Unionists for their loyalty. Churchill admitted that he considered "invading Éire". The Bigger Perfidy Island at it's best. This individual is self-obsessed and refuses to admit his errors.
in 1940, England stood alone. The last European country to defy hitler and Demon de Valera was so sad when hitler blew his brains out. He sent his condolences to the German people
The beautiful little harbour at 01:00 is on Cape Clear Island, off the coast of southwest Cork and close to the Fastnet Rock. It's an Irish speaking area called a Gaeltacht, and there are around 100 people living on the island 🏝
Interesting and well researched. But several factors weren't mentioned: First, the political and human disaster of Ireland's involvement in WW1. The first force for Irish independence - the Irish Volunteers - was formed in 1913, but just the following year when the war broke out, Redmond, the leader of Irish parliamentary Nationalists, called on the volunteers to join the British army and help Britain out. Most of them did and very many of them were mixed in the mud in that pointless war; just at the time when Britain was suppressing Ireland's right to self-determination. Above all, Redmond's disastrous call for support for Britain split the Irish Volunteer movement, and the rump that stayed behind and was left to fight in 1916, where DeValera fought, was a fraction of what it had been and the result was therefore a shadow of what could have been. Redmond and his infamous decision became anathema for all Irish Republicans. Then the Civil War - a British inspired fight over a British dictated document. Some of the most unacceptable provisions of the "Treaty" were that Ireland would remain under the British crown (Shortly before World War 2 broke out, the King had had himself proclaimed "King of Ireland", amongst other things), and that Britain would determine Ireland's foreign policy, foreign emissaries to Ireland had to get the approval of the British foreign office etc., In the end, the Irish were forced to accept these terms at the point of a gun. Britain had again refused to recognise Ireland's right of self-determination, despite a clear majority voting for complete independence Republic (Sinn Fein). This led to a terrible Civil War and decades of bitterness. It was precisely these terms continuing British dominance in the 1921 Treaty that DeValera most urgently wanted to remove when he came to power. He was not going to miss the opportunity presented by the war to remove the final injustices of the Treaty that so many of his comrades had died fighting against. That is not to say that Ireland should not have ignored Britain and joined the war by its own volition, especially after our oldest friend - France - was invaded and crushed. Had it joined, Ireland would also in the end have been much better positioned to work with the UK to solve the problem of Northern Ireland in the following decades of oppression and then bloody murder there.
My neighbour’s father was Irish and ran away to join the British forces during WW2. His family considered him a traitor and never spoke to him again. After the war he lived the rest of his life in England.
@@fintonmainz7845 well, that’s what he told me and his wife and kids were there at the time, so I have no reason to disbelieve it. He had nothing to gain from me by making it up
@@bobsyeruncle5557 People talk. I had neighbors and older work colleagues who had been in the British forces in the war. I don't believe it about the family. People leave home for a lot of reasons and are estranged from their families for lots of reasons
Part of De Valera's speech to Churchill after the war ' Mr. Churchill is proud of Britain’s stand alone, after France had fallen and before America entered the war. Could he not find in his heart the generosity to acknowledge that there is a small nation that stood alone not for one year or two, but for several hundred years against aggression; that endured spoliations, famine, massacres, in endless succession; that was clubbed many times into insensibility, but each time on returning to consciousness took up the fight anew; a small nation that could never be got to accept defeat and has never surrendered her soul?"'
Feel free to relive your mixed history for the rest of your life Stay bitter and Blame the famine on the English who engineered the whole thing to last detail. De valera died a bitter man too. and sure churchill and hitler were the same, and blah blah blah pass the torch of hatred from one generation to the next
I suggest reading Robert Fisk’s book “In Time of War” for a better interpretation on this issue. The Irish Free State may have been neutral, but as the report hints, the nation was partial. De Valera made it clear to Germany that if the bombing of Belfast on April 15, 1941 were repeated, Ireland would retain its stance. Many Irish people fought in the British Army. The first RAF bomber pilot shot down was from Southern Ireland; as was the navigator in the last felled bomber in 1945.
@@damienlindsay4569 let the Irish fight their own upcoming war with the immigrants, we will stand back and watch the paddies get overwhelmed and defeated !
It’s not exactly much of a threat from De Valera to Hitler eg -=“The Free State is neutral and if you bomb Belfast against it will remain neutral”. That’s really telling them!, The Fuhrer would have hardly been quaking in his boots with such a disincentive. As for those who talk about “English wars” - it was an international conflict that had impacted many nations - dealing with a genocidal megalomaniac who was attacking all around him including the small nations of Belgium and Holland was the responsibility of everyone.”
A lot of significant projects were undertaken by German companies including the Shannon Hydroelectric Scheme during the late 1920's and 30's. For the first time ever the Irish saw German technology and work ethic at work and were extremely impressed. There was absolutely no enmity in Ireland towards Germany and any attempt to join in the war against Germany would have been strongly resisted.
The English not only fought the Irish in the War for Independence but they oppressed them for centuries; took their resources; their land once Cromwell said: To hell or to Connaught and banished them to untillable land in the West and ignored their plight in the potato blight famine. Why fight for the enemy, who would do that, let them fight their own battles.
Many Irish volunteered to fight - and joined British soldiers in the struggle against Germany and Italy. Those that survived didn't get much thanks for it on their return home despite the defeat of the fascists being vital to Ireland's interests. So we don't need any revisionist BS thankyou.
@@hittitecharioteer Well too bad they didn’t get any thanks for it; they couldn’t very well accept any English medals. Do you know if any were offered?
Good video. There are so many nuances. While many Irish volunteered for British forces, and worked in munitions, the "Loyalists" in NI resisted conscription. There were, I think, 8 Irish received Victoria Crosses (all Ireland). MacGennis, in Belfast, was not offered the Keys of the City as he was Catholic. The film, The Brylcreem Boys, with Gabriel Byrne, gives a good view of the downed airmen, both Allied and Axis. Many Germans stayed in Ireland, and many migrated there in 1960s. Now that Brexit has shown the value of the EU, and ROI has the freedom of both EU and UK, and NI has both, perhaps the island can finally reunite - without a shot being fired.
The only countries in Europe which declared war on Germany before being attacked first by the Germans were Britain and France and although they declared war after the invasion of Poland they did almost nothing until attacked. Ireland was occupied by Britain for hundreds of years. An occupation which cost, literally, millions of lives. In what Parallel Universe could anyone expect Ireland to go to war on the side of Britain?
"Ireland didnt"refuse to fight the Nazis". Ireland, like Switzerland and many other countries that didn't take part, remained neutral. Just 19 years before the war the British had sent the Black and Tans, most of them common criminals from the English jails, to terrorise and butcher unarmed civilians during the Irish War of Independence. All this while Irishmen who were then fighting for England in the First War. England, not Scotland or Wales was and still is hated for what they did during that time. My own mother who was a young girl in 1920, said that the Tans murdered farmers working in the fields and regularly burned down the houses and raped the women. Do you think we would fight for a country the was and still is guilty of war crimes against our own people? You should read the history of just what Ireland went through in its right for independence. Those16 brave men who were captured in Dublin were put up against a wall in Kilmainham jail and shot. One of them in a wheelchair. We won't forget!
Denmark ,Norway, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg were also neutral but it didn't stop German tanks crossing the border. Had the Irish /Celtic Sea not existed, they would have been rolling over, bombing Dublin, and set up a puppet government.
It was devalera who declared an economic trade war against the Britsh Enpire in 1933. Devalera's first act as ruler in the height of the depression. The flea attacked the elephant and the irish people suffered
Many Irishmen fought fascism even if it meant being in the British army with all that that entailed. But completely understandable why Ireland had to choose expediency. A new state with little money and a dominant neighbour they did have to make difficult choices but stood by their morals and set their stall as a neutral nation like Sweden and Switzerland. They suffered deprivation during the war and depended upon trade with the UK. It worked out as well as could be expected for both the Irish and the British.
In May 1945 Eamon deValera paid an official prime ministerial visit to the German ambassador to offer his condolences on behalf of the Irish people on the death of Adolf Hitler
@@stephenbloch-wb8ef Apparently Dev was a personal friend of Dr Hempel. If he'd wanted to make a gesture privately I suppose that's his choice. But he'd no right to make such an approach on behalf of the Irish people without their leave. This was weeks after the liberation of Auschwitz. He didn't make Ireland or himself look very impressive.
@@splinterbyrd If all other countries and their people are not held accountable for the despicable actions of their government officials and leaders than you're pissing into the wind if you think Irish people are going to gaf about this. The mother and baby scandal, yes. Dev sending a mass card to some German doctor? No. We simply do not have enough fvcks to give.
Irish neutrality was indeed quietly skewed in the Allies favour. You mentioned weather reports and the release of aircrew from internment. I think elements of the Dublin fire brigade were even sent to help out when Belfast was getting bombed ) There was also a short cut for RAF flying boats to cut across the Republic from, I think Loch Neagh. I didn't know about Ireland being excluded from the UN. With hindsite that seems petty. You didn't mention the "Starvation Orders" imposed on any Irish servicemen who deserted the Irish forces to go an join British forces to fight. I don't believe this was applied to Irish civilians who joined British forces though. I'm no fan of DeValera, (being a half English bastard) but he was a wise statesman and did the best he could for Ireland.
I would say Ireland had more value as a neutral nation because it was able to access intelligence that it passed onto the British (covertly of course) that it would not had it joined the war.
the irish military and itelligence services worked with their british counter parts, hand in glove. Both sides knew what was really at stake beyond devalera's personal bitterness. BTW, the british intelligence service notified the irish with a detailed report of the impending coup attempt of the IRA to take out de valera and the fianna fail. the IRA agents were intercepted on the coast after being dropped off by a nazi U boat. They were then arrested, interrogated and executed. You can thank Churchill
secret arrangements my arse re fuelling German subs spying for the Nazis lighting the way to Belfast for Nazi bombers,when IRA prisoners in the Crumlin road Jail In Belfast heard of the Nazi advances into the Soviet Union THEY CHEERED, That advancement meant the murder in cold blood of more than TEN MILLION SOVIET CITZENS..including the shooting of one point five Millions Jewish citzens . The simple and unulterable truth is that Eire was pto Nazi then and is pro Nazi and pro Iran now, an absolute disgrace to support the enemies of freedom and humanity,
@@zakmarsden5997 The way ye whinge about these u boat refuelling stations, I would think ye would have some better evidence for it. But no, it's just like those Brexit benefits. A complete figment of a diseased imagination.
@@davidrickwood5924 You should read the story of the B17 Flying Fortress, named “T’aint a Bird”, that force landed in Clonakilty, County Cork in 1943, it’s a great yarn. Last September my cousin, myself and our wives visited O’Donovan’s hotel, where the crew were “interned”. They were treated like celebrities before being spirited over the Northern Ireland border! Furthermore, a retrieval team was “allowed” in to patch up the plane, which was then flown on to the UK.
@@MurphysisbetterthanGuinness that is the absolute truth, Eire helped the Nazis in whatever way they could. Churchill had threatened De valera with invasion if they had openly sided with Hitler,Millioms of people know the truth of it, and another thing there is a Scottish stout called Gillespies that is far superior to either Guinness of Murphys,
As did Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Greece, USSR, Lichtenstein, Albania, Monaco, San Marino, (and a few others) who remained neutral until attacked. Most of the others were allies of Germany.
I often wondered if De Valera every considered joining the conflict after the US was dragged, kicking and screaming, into the war. After all, once the US were formally involved the result became a forgone conclusion.
I don’t think he did. He really wanted to express Irish sovereignty, and the fact that he went on a condolence visit to the German embassy after Hitler’s death says a lot.
Douglas Hyde, Ireland's president during the second world war, offered condolences to Germany's representative in Dublin over the death of Adolf Hitler, newly declassified records show. Until now it was believed that Ireland's prime minister, Eamon de Valera, was the only leader to convey official condolences, a gesture criticised worldwide. But the presidential record for 1938-1957, made public in 2006, sheds new light on one of the most embarrassing chapters in Irish history - its decision to maintain cordial relations with the Nazis even after news of the Holocaust emerged.
@@johnpurcell7525 Please read your justification for using concentration camps to kill, torture, mutilate people in South Africa and Kenya. Oh that's right, ye never justified it and are hoping people just never find out. Don't worry, we'll never stop bringing it up, especially when ye ignorantly whinge at us.
Jeez, this old chestnut again?! By 1939, Ireland was less than 20years out from under the yoke of British imperial colonization and only about 2 years out of a trade war with Britain. Even if Ireland had wanted to join the war, all they would have achieved would have been the utter destruction of its cities and infrastructure, such as it was following British rule who had invested absolutely zero monies into Ireland. With no air force, no anti air defense, no real navy, Ireland would have had no defense. Britain meanwhile would have not had the resources to provide to Ireland. So, the only option was for Ireland to remain neutral. Besides, nobody ever mentioned Portugal, Spain, Switzerland (a huge provider of coal to Germany, even while neutral) or Finland. Or even America who joined much laterr. It' always seems to be viewed that Ireland somehow betrayed their wonderful british friends by not joining them.
As well as the thousands of Irish who fought for Britain there were many hundreds if not thousands joined the merchant Navy I know several who sailed the Atlantic to bring the weapons to the Russians via Archangel . As well as allowing allied airmen and sailors to return across the border the Irish sent every fire engine it had to cross the border and help Belfast to put out the fires after Belfast was Blitzed . The area in Dublin that the Nazis Bombed just happened to be the very area were Irish People got the boat to travel to Britain to work in its factories Steel works and coal mines or to join its forces , it was believed in Ireland that Hitler sent the Bombers as a Warning for helping the War effort .
Éamon de Valera took the correct course in My opinion, guiding a seventeen year old country in it's best course of action through WWll. The Irish people have good reason to be thankful to Him.
An Irish patriot named Thomas Finucane who fought side by side with de valera in 1916. He worshipped de valera and voted for him and The fianna fail in 1932. . He named his first born son Brendan EAMON Finucane After suffering under de valera"s catastrophic economic policies, He turned his back on Ireland and moved to England in 1936. His son became the youngest ace and one of the greatest in RAF history.
Is one of the reasons people would be grateful to De Valera his handing them over to the tender mercies of the Catholic Church. The virtual theocracy that he created not only confirmed Ulster Unionists in their view the Home Rule was Rome Rule only on steroids with greater independence. Perhaps worse than that was his claim to free Irish people from the alleged oppressive rule of Britain while creating a nightmare of Church domination in all aspects of society, a denigration of women and their rights ; the attitude of shame that allowed the Magdalene Laundries to flourish and a form of Government that kept Southern Ireland one of the most backward countries - in social and economic terms - in the West and left children and others vulnerable in a theocratic state.
Sorry I thought that my commentary was clear . I believe that you said that DeValera did the right thing in keeping a newly fledged country out of the 2nd World War and that Irish people should be grateful. My point is that there was much talk about morality and indeed hope in starting out as an Independent country. Indeed, many people discuss the general concept of a moral foreign policy. There’s a theory of “ Liberal intervention” which is complex but in certain circumstances there is a need to intervene. If ever there was a moral war then dealing with a belligerent Nazi State invading its neighbours especially the small states and involved in the holocaust - then this was it. Southern Ireland opted for neutrality. Churchill in a speech after the defeat of Germany made clear his views. “ His Majesty’s government never laid a violent hand upon them...and we left the de Valera government to frolic with the Germans and later with the Japanese representatives to their heart’s content.” DeValera seemed more interested in introspection and a theocratic Southern State - and this drove further wedges with Northern Protestants who even on their holidays in Donegal could see clerical power in many aspects of life.
I am not aware of any South or Central American country being shamed by USA in WWII for being neutral. Ditto for Spain The narrator keeps repeating and repeating and repeating the same themes
@@slightlyconfused876 The Allies had drawn up a contingency plan to take over the Irish Free State in the event they thought it might be threatened by Germany - Plan W. The ironic part of this was that the Irish Government was secretly involved in the planning.
At the time the war started the world did not see Germany as evil. It knew nothing of the extermination camps then. And concentration camps were not new. Britain started them in South Africa in the Boer War and they were an effective means of control. As for Poland, a newly established country via the 1919 Versailles circus, who aside from politicians cared a fig? Same went for Czechoslavakia. So why should Ireland have joined in hostilities? I cannot see any reason based on the information available and pklitical norms of the time.
Russians had concentration camps in the 18th century, and the Spanish in Cuba in the 1860s, calling them "campos de concentración." Don't blame us Brits for everything.
Excellent balanced video on an important topic, thank you. Ireland was politically neutral during world war 2. However, it's people were anything but neutral and were partial to the Allied cause. For example in my own family who were Catholic and Nationalist, I have two grand uncles who served with the British in North Africa & Italy. Overall, current estimates are that ~ 140,000 Irish born persons served with the British, Americans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, & South Africans. As with so much of our Diaspora who chose the military path over the last four hundred years and served with exemplary fashion in the famed Irish Brigades, the 38th (Irish)Brigade of the British Army was an outstanding fighting unit throughout WWII. Couple of additional points for consideration - (i) the role of the Catholic Church & the Vatican in Irish Neutrality in WWII is yet to be substantially explored; (ii) Discussions of our WW2 neutrality focus insufficient attention, in my view, on the Great War and the catastrophic casualties that we suffered ~ 49,500 Irish-born persons died, the highest percentage of any western belligerent. Consider for example, that knowledge of what happened to the troops of the Dublin's and Munster's on the SS Clyde at Gallipoli would have been sufficient to turn almost anyone off war.
As a Canadian with Irish roots I must tell you that your statement is deeply flawed , they were Canadians not Irishmen as we are made up of people from everywhere and we are all Canadian!
the country was NEVER neutral and was pro Nazi, there were a few exceptions like yours but as ive pointed out in previous posts then and NOW they are proNazi anti Jewish and Isreali and pro Iran, Absolutely disgusting .and what is even more disgusting are some of these posters who try to deflect Eire,s role, with absolute banal nonsense,
@@zakmarsden5997 Laughable comment from the supporter of a country currently on trial for genocide. I wonder what all those people who died in Auschwitz would say if they could see ye turned into the very people that murdered them. It might be entertainingly ironic if it wasn't so pathetic.
@@zakmarsden5997 the idea Ireland was pro nazi is laughable, we imprisoned german soldiers and released british ones. Also the fact you support Israel speaks for itself, claiming anyone who disagrees with Israels genocide as anti-jew is a straw man arguement
In 1840 40% of the British army came from the island of Ireland five years later over 1million people protestant and Catholic starved to death. Did the Westminster government come to their aid? Very few starve today under the Dail. Latha math gu fhein
the famine was a shock emergency that no one expected or was prepared for. Westminster spent 8 million pounds in an attempt to end the famine Blame the British is old and tired
Many other countries stayed neutral spain portugal south america mexico parts of africa Anyway why become involved With the allies blunder from End of ww1 not fully occupying germany!
As for Ireland's neutrality, The respectful Germans sank over 20% of Irelands merchant fleet, bombed six Irish counties by "mistake" with Dublin being bombed twice. as well as the mining of Dundalk harbor
@@JayJay-vb7om They still killed less innocent people here than Britain did. I'll repeat that. Nazi Germany, killed less innocent Irish people, than Britain.
Irelands position was 100% the same as the usa. That we stay out of it , unless attacked. The US was attacked and entered the war in December 41. Ireland wasn't.
and blah blah blah... Churchill saved Ireland from nazi occupation if you believe Ireland's fig leaf neutrality was a shield against hitler Ive gpt a cheap bridge to sell you
@@JayJay-vb7om If you believe that any of us think ye were fighting Hitler to protect Irish people, who ye spent most of the thousand years prior trying to ethnic cleanse, or stop the Holocaust, which started about 2 years after ye declared war, ye must think we're as stupid as the yanks. Ye did what ye did for your own reasons. It was never for the benefit of anyone else and no re-writing of history is going to remove those camps ye used in Africa.
Two of my family fought in WW2 for the former empire. As much as I dislike De Valera I think neutrality was the correct way to go. Think of all the places in western europe that have american bases. The Irish Republic has 0. I think that De Valera was correct in saying " Whoever lands first is the enemy".
@@ValorandVice Doesn't matter. Any video talking about Ireland in WW2 has them swarming like flies. Which is fine, as it's the perfect time to ask them about those concentration camps in Boer South Africa and Kenya
@@TonyM540 Depends what you mean by "rely on". Ireland isn't at threat from anyone, Russia occasionally sends perverts to aee what decent women look like but have no intention or ever invading us. The RAF are just looking after their own flank.
@@TonyM540 Defend it from what? Russian perverts trying to get a glance of what living in a free country looks like? They're protecting their own flank, it's very little to do with us and I very much doubt we would have any issues apart from the odd creep having a nose every once in awhile.
No, they actualy didnt remain nutural. Over 100,000 Irish men fought in the British army against the Nazis and some even deserted from the Irish army to do it.
and to the GREAT shame of the de valera government they were demonized and mistreated upon their return. The were no granted amnesty until the post de valera government in 2013
@@JayJay-vb7om You've never tasted Murphy's. We don't serve it to tans. And no one anywhere has even heard of Victoria's Stout. Heard about her black soul though.
I was surprised that no mentioned was made of USA role in Eire's war time decisions. While the USA& USSR were neutral it was not complicated. But after entering the war USSR USA expected Erie to assist their war effort. The result was USSR veto of Erie's entry to UNO This USA arranged support of the air corridor to the UK as well as movement of troops through Erie. The harbouring of kriegsmarine subermarines nearly tipped battle of the Atlantic. Erie's government owed a debt for German assistance in the independence struggles, in arm supply and safe haven Germany provided to Irish nationals. The shrinking of the Irish economy after independence saw a decline in the Irish population. Many found employment in British war economy a process that could not have been taken place without independence. It could not have enforced by a London government. As result of staying out of WWII Erie standards of living and health care became lower than the six counties and this is bigger barrier to a united Ireland.
@@waynecorker9098 “Harbouring of kriegsmarine submarines”??? Why are you repeating hoary old myths as ‘fact’? And Ireland’s economy had been devestated by centuries of the Brits keeping it as a backward agrarian breadbasket for England and its people regarded as dispensable or good only to be used as cannon fodder. The Industrial Revolution in Britain was backboned by the mindboggling theft of the British empire and most especially the rape of India. This Industrial Revolution never came to Ireland except for the Protestant planter north-east. What we’ve achieved since the 1960s is an economic considering the state the Brits left our country in until we kicked them out from most of it and the north is now an economic basket case compared to the republic.
But they were put on the blacklist and spat upon when they returned home. They didn't fight for the UK...they fought against fascism and to liberate Europe,
@@mikefraser4513 Where is your evidence of people being "spat upon"? Which "blacklist"? Men who deserted the Irish Army (a serious crime at a time of international crisis) were (rightly) barred from Government jobs for 7 years.
@@mikefraser4513 That, I believe, is a common misconception. Not only Irish civilians, but even soldiers serving in the Irish army, discretely crossed the border so that they could sign up to British regiments. The vast majority of them - even soldiers technically guilty of desertion - faced no consequences when they returned after the war. In fact, returning veterans had several advantages, above all in employment. Most of the businesses in Dublin at least were generally Unionist in outlook, favoured support for the war and preferred to hire veterans when they returned. I knew very many veterans when I was a kid. None of them ever complained of having being "spat on", and they all had good jobs.
Its much worse that this video makes out, on the death of Hitler Dev Valeria went to the German Embassy and signed A book of condolences for Hitler, while the rest of the world rejoiced! What an Irish leader! God help Ireland
It's much worse for Brits, knowing that they are so horrified by the concentration camps that Hitler used to kill innocent people, but then went on to use concentration camps to murder and torture tens of thousands of innocent people in Kenya after WW2 😢
@@ulsterman1066 The UK used concentration camps in Kenya about 6 years after WW2. Some of the things ye did over there included inventing a device which crushed a man's testicles right before castration in order to inflict the maximum amount of pain possible on the victim. I'm confused on how ye think ye have some moral superiority to speak to us in a tone that does not belong to a people that only survive by leeching 12 billion pounds a year from the English taxpayer.
There is absolutely zero evidence to suggest he signed any book. He went to the German embassy to offer condolences to his friend (the embassador), which is admittingly not smart but he was strict on following his neutral policies.
@@johnpurcell7525 Incorrect! We would have all been speaking Russian. In 1941 when German troops invaded Russia they found Stalin's army preparing to invade Western Europe. According to Soviet archives/ German records and many of the General's diaries Stalin had over 30 000 tanks alone 8 million in uniform and his partizans were trained in '1937'.. At that point in time both British/French soldiers were huddled together on the Dunkirk beaches. Who would have stopped that sizable force in 1941...no one! Fortunately the Red army messed up when it came to unloading heavy equipment from train bogies ending in the middle of no where ... the earth/ground was too soft. Then German troops turned up.. So, technically speaking, we owe our freedoms to the Nazis... lol and not to the 'stand aloners' or uncle Sam and the big I AMs of historical deception.. Read a book pommy! You're living in the matrix if you believe your own historians..
@blueeyes402 it is also said that the only thing that stopped the Red Army from taking the rest of Europe at the end of the war was the use of the A bomb. 100% we would be speaking Russian without that terrible weapon. Anyway what's the difference between speaking German, English or Russian. All are foreign languages ???
@@johnpurcell7525 if it wasn't for Britain the Irish would be speaking the Irish language today., what point are you trying to make there, Britain enslaved Ireland for hundreds of years.
Ireland’s refusal to allow allied ships to use Irish ports is said to have cost thousands of allied lives. Also the British should never forget just how much, even now, the Irish loath and despise the British, although that didn’t stop generations of the Irish moving to Britain for a better life.
@@zuppymac-xi8rk. Funnily enough, I do understand the meaning of “neutral” when used in a political sense. Though I do wonder about being neutral when one side is murdering people by the million just because they were Jews. Yes millions of Irish people did move to Britain, but that was for their own benefit. And as it turned out the British were very kind to Irish immigrants. They even had the vote and everything the real British had. And the Irish famine was terrible, but the potato blight also affected much of north-western Britain and Scotland. But people coped perfectly well. The British therefore had difficulty understanding why the Irish were doing so badly. BTW. The British army (or Black and Tans, as they were often called) reacted harshly only after a bus load of them were massacred by Irish nationalists.
@@zuppymac-xi8rk. Actually I’m of Irish descent. One of my uncles on my mother’s side, fought in the Irish civil war. He was a “free-stater”. So the Irish were “not as one” about things then. My father saw dead bodies laying in the street. It was pretty awful. When my father came to England he expected to be badly treated being Irish, but he came anyway, because things were so bad. However he was treated very well and although it was the time of great anti-British sentiment in Ireland plus the time of the “great depression” and mass unemployment, he was given careful advice by the British about finding work, which he did almost immediately. He never forgot that. My father never stopped “being Irish” but he appreciated the care and attention he was shown.
@@stiofain88. Yes I suppose Britain must be awful. That’s why London is the first or second most popular place in the world for people from all over the world to flood into. (About twenty MILLION visit each year). Central London is historic with sights pretty well unmatched anywhere. Plus world beating theatres and shows together with marvellous food, so perhaps it’s not surprising people want to visit. Of course the transportation systems making travelling around easy for everyone is a great attraction. In fact, it seems many people just come to visit the world’s first underground railway system opened in London in 1863. A lot more could be said, for instance the first modern sewage system, so London isn’t as smelly as you seem to think. But I think that’s enough for now.
@@oldman1734 Yeah I've seen your multi ethnic paradise. Amazing how a city in the heart of England can feel like a weird dystopia in India or Central Africa. As for enough, no. You started something your gammon mouth should have stfu about. We have plenty to talk about still, like those concentration camps ye used in South Africa and Kenya.
So less than 2 years after full independence from the UK and after 800 years of occupation, starvation, plantations, land clearances, the UK causing the civil war by reneging on the independence deal by keeping NI, during a trade war with the UK for refusing to keep paying compensation for the return of Irish land and with NI still in occupation where the Irish were treated as 2nd class citizens in their own country, people are surprised Ireland decided to stay neutral rather than joining the UK ? That sounds like British justice.
@@JayJay-vb7om He was Welsh. Another people ye invaded and subjected to your will. Embarrassed they haven't been able to get the jackboot off their neck yet but ye so have them surrounded.
@@JayJay-vb7om Ew. St Patrick was Welsh. Why are you even speaking on subjects that ye know nothing about? Which is essentially everything apart from avoiding gun control and funding apartheid/genocide.
Charles Trevelyan told Parliament, “The judgment of God sent the calamity (i.e. The Great Hunger of 1845-1853) to teach the Irish a lesson. That calamity must not be too much mitigated. The greater evil with which we have to contend is not the physical evil of the famine, but the moral evil of the selfish, perverse and turbulent character of the Irish people." What does Ireland ever owe the UK when it was supposed to be a completely equal partner of the UK at that time?
@@Shankingya he was using it as leverage to drag Ireland into the war. They wanted Irish ports. The words of DeValera “ Our first invader is our first enemy “
It's like someone who punches you in the face over and over again asking you to then asking you to help them punch someone else in the face for punching someone in the face.
over 300 000 irish men and women came to england during the war and proudly contributed to the common cause in spite of demon devalera and his head in the sand view of the world
@@JayJay-vb7om Every single comment tans make about Ireland shows why those efforts were a waste of time. Ye're more ungrateful than today's "refugees".
@zuppymac-xi8rk most but not all the Republic of Ireland never fought although some very brave men did and they were mostly from the old unionist remnant.
More than half a million Irish people fought with the Britain, the USA, the AUS, and many other countries during the 2nd world War, The 1st World war the number would have more than a million Irish fighters. Regrettably far too many Irish men fought with the British army and under instruction carried out many brutal and savage attacks on people attacks in foreign lands going back hundreds of years
Ireland had just become a country a young state of 10 or so years and after 800 years of British rule impoverished and broke especially after paying the equivalent of billions to the British in the divorce, tens of thousands did join the British in the war. Ireland had been dragged into many British wars on Irish soil.
There appears to be an irish kneejerk reaction to do what ever was opposite to british government action. Eg the selection of steel helms(german helmets) for the free state army.
As has been said elsewhere. When will we see your video about all the other european countries which did not declare war in germany before AH attacked? How is a soverign country not obeying Churchills orders “defiance“. There is something seriousely wrong with you
The video is specifically about Ireland and Churchill was one of the 3 major leaders of the war against Germany, and one who specifically asked Ireland to join the war effort. And Ireland was newly independent from Britain, and was part of its sphere of influence and a member of the commonwealth. Not obeying request of such a person at that time in history was defiance as there were bound to be consequences from it, and yet Ireland stood by its decision. It’s something what discussing and I am sorry if it triggered you.
@@ValorandVice “obeying a request“ What kind of language is that to use? I repeat. When will “obey my reauest“ to make similar videos about other countries in a similar position?
@@ValorandVice I will regard failure to obey my request as defiance and you will face consequences. To describe my response as being “triggered“ just shows your bad character.
Did someone say “Britain continues to occupy Ireland ??? Keep drinking the Gatorade. Although in truth the UK and USA or the US via their UK management -and then add the media means that the UK probably has far more control of the Irish Republic’s everyday life than it did in 1920. The Premier League alone takes up a fair amount of the youths’ money and time. And I’m not quite sure who owns the Health Service but I doubt if the profits are being reinvested in the country in which they are generated.
It wasn't that Ireland 'defied Churchill', that was just an excuse. The British fought for the freedom of Europe and indeed the world, at great cost. Sadly Ireland didn't give a damn about the freedom of others, who suffered greatly, whilst the Irish stuck to their 'principles', shame on them!
Duncan, the Brits and France knew full that Hitler was building up huge Military Reserves prior to 1939 and his attitude to Jews was well known from his ramblings in 'Mein Kamp' yet they sat in their holes and were caught, not with thie pants down in '39/40 but without a fig leaf to cover their modesty. Hitlers went through the 'might' of both their Armies like Faecal Matter through a goose and if one were to listen to some English Peole you would think they alone stopped Hitler. 'WE WON THE WAR'''.What a load of nonsense. If the the two main countries, as well as several other far more populous countries than Ireland, in Europe so easily capitulated to the German Forces what sense would there have been to Ireland opposing Hitler. Real Politique, which you British go on about so often to justify talking to Despots, demanded that Ireland stay out of that War
Shame on Britain. They should have joined Germany against the real war criminals, the Brits. Churchill sent the Black and Tans to Ireland just two decades before.
We here in Israel often wonder why Ireland seems so against our country. Your video goes a long way to explaining why this is so. In the end, choosing neutrality over morality is, to our mind, the wrong decision. In fact, today's Ireland seems to prefer supporting the "forces of resistance" instead of our admittedly flawed democratic State of Israel.
@@fintonmainz7845 That I know of who fought in WWII: 1 in the Canadian Air Force, as a Navigator; 1 who fought with the Canadian Navy as a Radar Technician; 2 who fought with the Canadian Army in Europe. All saw combat.
@@RM-cz9td but we're they conscripted,? Hundreds of thousands of Irish men VOLOUNTEEred to fight the Germans. They did not have to do so. Since you believe the lies in this video I know that you will believe propaganda which is what your views regarding ireland are based upon.
We in Ireland have a very accurate portrayal of Israel, unlike the US, which either pretends not to know or witness the amount of innocent people ye murdered for the last three decades. Don't ever make the mistake of thinking we're as stupid as the donors giving ye the handouts which keeps your worthless apartheid regime afloat.
The decision was entirely cynical self interest. It was not a moral choice but a moral death. The fighting Irish afraid to fight fascism !!! DeValera actually commiserated with the death of Hitler. What a coward when he knew about the death camps. Not all Irish agreed with DV. Yet Ireland benefited hugely from the European peace that ensued. Cynicism and cowardice rewarded.
Facism and racism came from Britain. - with their Race "Science" - it was only mid twentieth century that scientists stated that their Scientific Racism was wrong!
70,000 Irishmen fought in the War and 50,000 died in WW1 and 7 VCs were were won by Southern Irish Men WW2, where only one was won by NI men and he was a Catholic, who had to leave the North after, because he could not a job. Also remember that The Battle of Waterloo, according to Wellington, would have been lost but for the fierce resistence of 'my Irish Roman Catholic troops'.
@@stanleywoodison8699 They directly or indirectly killed a quarter of our population and we still don't even have all our land back, so no. He's not actually.
Perhaps because we knew what a German dominated Europe would mean for our trade and independence? Plus, we'd already learned Hitler's word could not be trusted.
And many of the British elites had supported Hitler coming to power too. But because the Russians were going to eat Hitler for dinner eventually and the toffs who own Britain didn't want Europe going socialist. Britain would've had a working class revolution eventually in that case and the royals and toadies wouldve been out on their arse. So instead of letting that happen they got in on the fight. After the war they even helped prop up the Germans and worked alongside Nazi war criminals to keep the reds out of Europe. Also, Britain didn't want Germany getting in on the Imperialism game and being a threat to its own international interests. The Nazis made Germanic empire building one of their explicit goals for the reich after all. They wanted to play catch up with the rest of the European colonial powers. The British empire has largely dissolved since anyway and the Brits these days have to play second fiddle to the Germans as Americas pets in Europe.
As averred to in the video, I think it probably surprised many in Ireland at the time that the British didn't dispatch the Royal Navy to retake the 'Treaty Ports' -- Lough Swilly, close to the city of [London]Derry, but just across the border in the Republic; Castletown Berehaven on the SW coast, and most especially, Cork Harbour, aka 'The Cove of Cork'. All three were excellent natural harbours commanding the Western Approaches; the latter also having extensive port facilities, having previously been Britain's primary naval base on the island of Ireland. One can imagine the conversation going something like, "Yeah guys, we know we gave them back only last year, we know that was a part of the deal, but speaking of deals, you must have heard about this Austrian 'loony' who's torn up Versailles, and, well, look - things have _changed!"_ Indeed, I believe a deal was even mooted where if Ireland joined the War on the Allied side (practically speaking, the return of the ports to Britain and the facilitation of airbases for the RAF would have in all probability been deemed "close 'nuff"), close consideration would have been given to the ceding of the six counties in the N.E. of the island still controlled by the British to the Republic following the conclusion of the War. The only reasons I can figure that Britain didn't engage in a bit of gunboat diplomacy to secure the ports were that, A, any use of force would be liable to naus up the diplomatic efforts to secure aid from, and the hoped for alliance _with_ the United States; and B, given that Irishmen were _already_ enlisting by the tens of thousands in HM forces to fight H••••r, it was thought far better to 'keep them sweet' rather than to risk them 'pi55ing the bed' out of spite! ('A' being far and away the primary consideration, I reckon...) As for a deal involving 'The North', I say this as a historical layman, but it's my belief that with the Irish War of Independence being still fresh in the minds of both parties, not to mention the ugly civil war that followed it, it was recognised on both sides that a bloody repeat would be the result of any attempted withdrawal of the British from the Six Counties, only this time with guerillas loyal to the British Crown (if not necessarily the British _Government_ - and most certainly not the _Irish_ State) in the featuring role! While as an Irishman I do believe De Valera, with his deep antipathy to the British, his shakey grasp of economic realities, and worst of all, his problematic stance on the sepration of Church and State, held the country back by, and for, decades. Nevertheless, I think he quite correctly understood that moral considerations with regards to putting it up to 'the Nasties' (or not) were entirely moot. Ireland's joining the war on either side would have unquestionably have resulted in her cities being bombed to rubble by the other, with invasion quickly following. While I would question many of the details of how De Valera handled our neutrality, I believe the basic fact of it was the only rational, indeed, the only _possible_ choice. Finally, notwithstanding that a World with H••••r posed a nascent little country like Ireland some strenuous questions, not only of a moral nature, but indeed, strategic and geopolitical ones - most specifically, that surely the very best that a country like Ireland could hope for in a continent run by H••••r would be an existence as a vassal state, like Vichy France, or perhaps Spain; these were questions for 'down the road'. While H••••r was indeed a special case, it is hard to argue with the proposition that the first duty of a leader is to his people; and his secong duty, following from the first, is to keep his borders secure. As disagreeable as I personally find De Valera to be, for the reasons I mentioned, and others, I think - certainly in the context of the war - he succeeded admirably in those imperatives!
A few points. The opposition were in power for sixteen years from 1922 to 1957 and they were far more obsequious to the RC Church than Dev ever was. The Civil Service of the day-the Permanent Government and mainly British trained- also played a substantial part in holding back the country. The only really outstanding Civil Servant was Ken Whittaker and he was appointed by Dev, with heavy opposition. as he broke the promotion on Seniority Rule, in appointing him.
Allied personal and axis personal where both imprisoned in the Curragh camp during the emergency years. As it was a open prison many of the allied prisoners escaped and made their way back through the northern border. Even some of the axis prisoners also made a break from the Curragh. Some were recaptured and sent back to the Curragh some Even got work in farms and had been allowed to go to college while being held in the Curragh camp. As Ireland held the League of Nations championship Dev. was entitled to pay our respects to a leader of a member of the league. Ireland had been blockaded by the allied forces so Ireland had to allow some concessions ie the Donegal Corridor and other flying boats allowed to use ports so as to allow our merchant navy to bring in supplies. Many Irish people had been members of the allied forces even held top positions with the forces even in the planning of the DDay landing. Ireland provided emergency services to northern Ireland when bonbed buy the axis powers this was seen as why the German forces bombed Dublin. Churchill even offered Ireland a unified Ireland once we entered the war. Internationally Ireland was seen as a protagonist of peace throughout the world and often became the middle man in peace negotiations even before being allowed to become a member of the UN.
The Germans hoped to use the IRA to destabilise the North and British bases But American troops were also in the North in numbers. The IRA agreed to help. More worrying was the Nazis asking the IRA for the names of Jews living in Ireland -about 8500- in a ominous move.
@@thomas-xj1hs Churchill never "offered up the six counties". He proposed a joint defence arrangement whereby both jurisdictions would cooperate militarily in the war and he declared that this would undoubtedly lead to close ties that would result in re-unification. Of course the N.I. politicians weren't even aware of this, let alone approved of it. A complete non-runner.
@@sean_d only if you were born on mars.it wasnt, it was one of the most anti Jewish countries in the world then and was pro Nazi through and through, To this day it is the most anti Jewish anti Israeli country in the world outside the middle east , Its plain for the whole world to see that things havent and never will change Nazis and Fascist then same now.
Why on earth should I listen to somebody who can't even pronounce the word Taoiseach on modern Irish history? Everybody knows it's pronounced tee-shirt as in tee-hee shirt.
If Ireland had bc part of America at tt time, there would hv been no controversay. If Ireland had suffered any damage, it would hv been quickly rebuilt bcz it would hv been part of the U.S. Note, if Ireland became the 49th state, Hawaii would hv bc the 51st state. Which would hv made the TV series Hawaii-Five O, Hawaii-Five-1.
the Irish even let the USA and UK use bases here in Ireland for Catalina water planes to patrol the seas around Ireland and the Atlantic ocean 1 of these bases is only 19 miles from my home in Wexford its also know that Mr. Churchill hated the Irish long before ww2
Perhaps you are thinking of the fact that allied flying boats were allowed overfly Donegal from Lough Foyle to get to the Atlantic directly? I suspect you are mixing up WW2 and WW1 when there was such a base at Wexford, but it closed in 1918.
@@sean_d hi Sean nope there is 1 in Wexford town just on the outskirts where a hotel is now situated the slip way is still there to this day and im sure there is photographs in the Wexford archives
The Irish government hated Britain more than the most evil regime in modern history. The Irish government made life terribly difficult for any of their citizens that did actually go and fight for Britain, yet didn't punish people who had volunteered to fight for the Nazis. An Irish historian did a documentary about this.
The Irish Government 'made life difficult' only for those men who had deserted from the Irish Army (such as it was) to join the British Forces. In countries that weren't neutral, men could be shot for doing that. Very few Irish citizens fought for the Nazis. You may be thinking of O'Duffy's six hundred who went to fight in Spain for Franco in 1937. De Valera was quietly glad to get them out of the country, since many of them were of a political persuasion that rejected de Valera's stance of neutrality and would have wanted Ireland fighting Russia.
Why would I have a list? I am simply telling people what an Irish historian said, and that I heard on the radio. Not that interested either way, it is pretty ancient history as far as I am concerned.@@washerdryer3466
@@andrewg.carvill4596 No the professor I heard talking was definitely talking about World War 2. Wish I could remember his name he was very interesting.
There has been far too much 'smoke' blown around about this issue of Irish citizens being targeted for serving in the British Military/War effort when they came back to Ireland. As has been explained by a number of others, the people who were targeted by the Irish Government were predominantly those who deserted the Irish Armed Forces. They were just a small % of the thousands who left Ireland and went to work/fight for the Allies in the UK.
Finland was admitted to the UN on the same date as Ireland in 1955. It had allied itself with Germany during the war to defend itself against Soviet Russia, which had invaded it without provocation (hmm.. sounds vaguely familiar) in 1939. Finland successfully fought off the Soviets but was tainted by association with the Nazis.
On the other hand Sweden, which had also remained neutral during the war, was admitted in the first tranche of UN member countries. During the war it had fed the Nazi machine with major exports of iron ore, tungsten, ball bearings and trucks.
Sweden's "neutrality" seems a little more questionable than Ireland's. After all, joining the British in 1939 would be like asking the Baltic Republics to join Russia's war in Ukraine at the moment. The history of oppression makes the answer to that question quite clear.
We actually had a good number of planes and some had been modified mot only for training purposes but giving the airmen a advantage over other planes when they'll be under attack.
The British plans had no trainers whom bought one from the Irish to copy for their own forces. Beforehand training was carried out with the instructor running alongside the plane in the UK and elswhere also armored vehicle had been sought by the UK and copied for service within British forces.
The Irish by way had a sizable forces greater than 100 thousand personal at its hight both PDF and Reservist as a regular service personnel they were well equipped by modern standards back then. Even better equipped than some of the axis forces.
The Finns invaded the Soviet Union in 1941 and fought with Swastikas on their tanks. There is no comparison between the Finns and the Irish Republic. The Irish remained neutral but allowed their citizens to join up, despite memories of the Black & Tans and Churchill's culoabikity for atrocities committed in the Ireland. They didn't fight for the British they fought against the Nazis and their allies, which included the Ukrainian Banderists and OUN-B, Estonians, Latvian and Lithuanians. All of these enthusiastically volunteered for Waffen SS divisions, Ostbattalions and other Nazi units. And their modem descendents are still fighting under Nazi banners and ideology.
Interestingĺy the Irish didn't accept Jews fleeing Germany. Unless they were well off, they would drop them at the Northern Ireland Border and say to request asylum there.
@@charlesd3a Utter nonsense from beginning to end.
Churchill said if he could stop the raw materials from Sweden to Germany, the war would be over Do not forget the German troops who went through Sweden. .
A good summary I thought. DeValera steered a difficult course and if Germany had invaded that could have spelt disaster
de valera 's course was little more than a fig leaf covering his boundless hate of england
britain stood alone against imminent invasion by the most powerful military in the history of europe and survived by a thread, thanks to the RAF and an IRISH super ace named Brendan EMMON Finucane, whose name doesn't even get a foot note mention in irish history.
In not officially joining the allies it allowed England breathing space early on but remember if you look at the allied forces the amount of Irish men and women who joined in Britain, America and Australia and New Zealand were well over 100000 so just because the country was officially neutral doesn't mean the Irish people were blind to the horrific problems in Europe
Erie a land ruled by the men with the guns.
@@waynecorker9098 Erie is not a land, it’s a lake.
@@GeorgeJones-z7y The British people were blind for centuries to the horrors they were committing in Ireland and all over the world.
@@robertbarrett1528How could they be commiting terrer in Ireland ,if they couldnt see it ?
@@Stephen-lx9nm Over your head, Stevie.
Ireland's position regarding neutrality was just like that of The United States. The U.S. was neutral until it was attacked. Having been attacked by Japan it declared war on Japan. It did not go to war with Germany until Germany declared war on the U.S.
As to the moral question, it was not as simple as portrayed in this video. Britain, France and the Netherlands each had colonies whose right to self determination was viciously attacked by each of those countries. Britain had colonies demanding independence, and Britain fought tooth and nail to prevent those colonies achieving freedom.
France had colonies, Algeria and Vietnam, to name but two, who had to fight to gain their moral right to independence.
The Netherlands had colonies that struggled against their oppressor to gain freedom.
During World War 2 neither Britain, France nor the Netherlands recognised their colonies' right to freedom.
Was Ireland to take the side of countries who insisted on oppressing those who were struggling for freedom just as the Irish had done not long before?
The moral issues were far more difficult and complex than was mentioned here.
Militarily the Irish forces could contribute very little to Allied forces anyway. What Britain really needed was American involvement as this was a game-changer. ironically many Irish Americans were based as US soldiers in Britain and the North
@@GrahamCahill-uj3sc
The Island of Ireland would have been valuable in protecting trans atlantic sea routes.
@@GrahamCahill-uj3sct😅
@@fintonmainz7845 Always remember what Henry Kissinger said, 'in International Affairs there is no such thing as loyalties, only interests' It was in Irelands interest to stay out of that War.
@@peadarocoileain902 indeed
I think there is a total failure in this video to understand the personal animosity towards Churchill, the colonialist, who in 1920 as Secretary of State for War in 1920 had sent the Black and Tans into Ireland where they undertook many atrocities. We also need to remember that throughout the 1930's Churchill was verbose in his opposition to Indian Independence, how must that have looked to those in the Irish Free State.
Thanks, but we mentioned the war of independence in the video, but I didn’t want it seem appear like because of a personal issues, DeValera lead Ireland to refuse to contribute to what was arguably the most evil force in the history of the modern world. While that may have been one reason, I think the other reasons mentioned were stronger. You can Checkout my video on the Black & Tans too.
@@ValorandVice Yes but there was a failure to acknowledge that Churchill had a big role in suppressing the War of Independence which I suspect made him a hated figure in Ireland, especially with his colonial credentials continuing throughout his 'wilderness years'. We have to remember that Churchill was not universally liked. Halifax was seen as being preferred by the Establishment to lead the country with Churchill mistrusted. In fact Churchill did not lead his party to any election victories until 1951 and even then he achieved less votes than Labour. As someone who is English I can see why de Valera's wanted to keep a distance between Ireland and a government led by a politician who would have had no scruples of throwing the Free State 'under the bus'.
@@ValorandVice Recent unveilings of Government Papers (in both the UK and Ireland) in the 20th century paint a far more complex picture of the relationship between the 2 countries. There is clear evidence of the animosity (personal) between Churchill and De Valera. That became public in 1938 when the British Government returned 3 deep water ports (Treaty Ports) to Irish control. When war broke out between Germany and Great Britain, the British Government requested renewed access but the De Valera led government refused. Churchill was apoplectic and very public in his opinions on the subject - and he continued in that vein throughout the war. His VE Day speech added to that invective - he could not resist hurling barbs at Ireland (never by name but, clearly implied) over the entire issue of neutrality. De Valera was no saint either - even today, there are sharp divisions in Ireland about the type of leader he was. However, I can understand the reluctance on his side to allow British Military Forces to establish ANY TYPE OF FOOTHOLD ever again on the island, given our history of subjugation, discrimination at the hands of the British. It is important to remember that between 1916 and 1922 Ireland underwent a prolonged struggle for independence immediately followed by a Civil War over the terms of the Anglo-Irish Treaty. 1938 is only 16 years on from that conflict and there is little doubt in my mind that had the Irish Government given the British Military access to those ports, we would have seen an inevitable conflict between sections of the Irish population and the British Military.
@ValorandVice 'The most evil force in the history of the modern world' lol.
The Brits had just got done murdering 100 million people in India. And that was just one of their colonies. Churchill directly contributed to that too. The British elites had also been supportive of the Nazis upon their rise too.
Here in Ireland the people of the early 20th century were only a generation removed from our own genocide at the hands of the British too. There is still an old workhouse down the road from me here complete with a mass grave from that time. Insitutions like that were literally an inspiration for Nazi work camps.
Britain has just as much death and torment to answer for as any Reich. History didn't start at WW2.
@@ValorandVice I eagerly await your similar report about all other European countries (except France) which went to war with Germany before being attacked.
When can we expect the next installment?
Which country will you mention first?
Lots of men from the Irish Republic fought for Britain in WW2
Yes they did.
@@juliewillard1367 and were very proud of their service
They were terribly mistreated by the de valera gov. upon their return to ireland
@@JayJay-vb7om They weren't. Deserters from the Irish Army had some trouble, but they deserted, what do you expect?
@@markpower9081 oh yes they were indeed
they were treated like dogs, out casts and lepers
The irish government finally pulled their head out of their rear end after SIXTY EIGHT YEARS and granted
amnesty in 2013 all for the heinous crime of standing up to hitler and saving all of ireland from a horrific nazi occupation,
Never forget devalera's historic and shameful condolences to the german people, honoring the most evil man in history in 1945
@@JayJay-vb7om They deserted our army to go and defend the nation that tried to ethnic cleanse us from this world. If they fought for the yanks or Canadians or French that would be one thing. But they didn't.
It was true that in that horrific time anybody get fear of German offence. Even US was neautral for long time. So probably in view of Irish situation such decision was right.
The USA was neutral until Germany declared war on the US.
I understand the rationale but the problem is that all of the known factors pointed to the Nazi regime sensing fear. Their philosophy was full of machismo. The Nazi belief was “ we are the master race” and they were prepared to bully and harangue - and it was even better , from their perspective, if they could get their way by being bellicose. Some of the comments I was receiving were along the lines that the southern 26 counties of the island of Ireland had just attained their independence from Britain so why would they fight for Britain. My point was that it wouldn’t have been fighting for Britain but against one of the greatest menaces the world had ever seen. Even though Southern Irish resources would have been meagre it would have been morally right to be on the side of the Allies. If independence was to mean anything it surely must have meant taking responsibility and not hiding behind the bigger Island from whom they had recently attained independence. One thing is for sure is that had Hitler got past the UK after the Battle of Britain - the next stop would have been Ireland to open up the whole of the Atlantic to the German fleet. It would have meant certain death for the small but significant Jewish and Traveller community on the island . And who knows where the rest of the Irish population would have ranked on Hitler’s weird ethnic league table. In any case Northern Ireland was part of the UK and played a full part in the war effort including serving in the Armed Forces but also importantly Belfast had some of the best Ship building and Aircraft manufacturing in the World ( they had built the Titanic ( it was ok when it left us. Blame the English Captain Ha ha ) but also some of the other greatest ships in the world. This meant that it was very heavily bombed. Although the South ( the Irish Free State) was neutral many served in the British armed forces like their Northern counterparts. Nonetheless there is always a debate surrounding the morality of neutrality. I’m not sure if it would have made much difference given the South’s limited resources but there was a worry that German submarines could lurk in the shadows of the Irish waters.
@@PaulJohnston-n5w There's mister "the south left the lights on, guiding German bombers to Belfast"
"Independence was cowardice" "u boats getting refueled in Ireland"
"Hiding behind the bigger island"
Non stop drivel.
Not a word from him about all but 2 European countries not declaring war on Germany before being attacked.
Singling out "Southern Ireland" (sic) with his obsessive rant.
Churchill really showed what a great alloy he was to Poland after the war. As to Northern Ireland: "Éire" was promised reunification if they joined Britain in the war. A great way of repaying Ulster Unionists for their loyalty. Churchill admitted that he considered "invading Éire". The Bigger Perfidy Island at it's best.
This individual is self-obsessed and refuses to admit his errors.
in 1940, England stood alone.
The last European country to defy hitler
and Demon de Valera was so sad when hitler blew his brains out. He sent his condolences to the German people
@@JayJay-vb7om "England stood alone"
Delusional
The beautiful little harbour at 01:00 is on Cape Clear Island, off the coast of southwest Cork and close to the Fastnet Rock. It's an Irish speaking area called a Gaeltacht, and there are around 100 people living on the island 🏝
About a quarter of them English immigrants living off Irish welfare
Interesting and well researched. But several factors weren't mentioned:
First, the political and human disaster of Ireland's involvement in WW1.
The first force for Irish independence - the Irish Volunteers - was formed in 1913, but just the following year when the war broke out, Redmond, the leader of Irish parliamentary Nationalists, called on the volunteers to join the British army and help Britain out. Most of them did and very many of them were mixed in the mud in that pointless war; just at the time when Britain was suppressing Ireland's right to self-determination. Above all, Redmond's disastrous call for support for Britain split the Irish Volunteer movement, and the rump that stayed behind and was left to fight in 1916, where DeValera fought, was a fraction of what it had been and the result was therefore a shadow of what could have been. Redmond and his infamous decision became anathema for all Irish Republicans.
Then the Civil War - a British inspired fight over a British dictated document. Some of the most unacceptable provisions of the "Treaty" were that Ireland would remain under the British crown (Shortly before World War 2 broke out, the King had had himself proclaimed "King of Ireland", amongst other things), and that Britain would determine Ireland's foreign policy, foreign emissaries to Ireland had to get the approval of the British foreign office etc., In the end, the Irish were forced to accept these terms at the point of a gun. Britain had again refused to recognise Ireland's right of self-determination, despite a clear majority voting for complete independence Republic (Sinn Fein). This led to a terrible Civil War and decades of bitterness. It was precisely these terms continuing British dominance in the 1921 Treaty that DeValera most urgently wanted to remove when he came to power. He was not going to miss the opportunity presented by the war to remove the final injustices of the Treaty that so many of his comrades had died fighting against.
That is not to say that Ireland should not have ignored Britain and joined the war by its own volition, especially after our oldest friend - France - was invaded and crushed. Had it joined, Ireland would also in the end have been much better positioned to work with the UK to solve the problem of Northern Ireland in the following decades of oppression and then bloody murder there.
No this is not a "well researched" video.
My neighbour’s father was Irish and ran away to join the British forces during WW2. His family considered him a traitor and never spoke to him again. After the war he lived the rest of his life in England.
Good
"my neighbors father"
Made up story
@@fintonmainz7845 Who cares if it is apart from those land thieving, concentration camp using when it suited them, miserable gammons?
@@fintonmainz7845 well, that’s what he told me and his wife and kids were there at the time, so I have no reason to disbelieve it. He had nothing to gain from me by making it up
@@bobsyeruncle5557 People talk. I had neighbors and older work colleagues who had been in the British forces in the war. I don't believe it about the family. People leave home for a lot of reasons and are estranged from their families for lots of reasons
Part of De Valera's speech to Churchill after the war ' Mr. Churchill is proud of Britain’s stand alone, after France had fallen and before America entered the war. Could he not find in his heart the generosity to acknowledge that there is a small nation that stood alone not for one year or two, but for several hundred years against aggression; that endured spoliations, famine, massacres, in endless succession; that was clubbed many times into insensibility, but each time on returning to consciousness took up the fight anew; a small nation that could never be got to accept defeat and has never surrendered her soul?"'
Sound man Mr Kelly
Nazis then Nazis now,
@@zakmarsden5997 The Brits, yes indeed.
@zakmarsden5997 the IRA are Nazis
Feel free to relive your mixed history for the rest of your life
Stay bitter and Blame the famine on the English who engineered the whole thing to last detail.
De valera died a bitter man too.
and sure churchill and hitler were the same, and blah blah blah
pass the torch of hatred from one generation to the next
I suggest reading Robert Fisk’s book “In Time of War” for a better interpretation on this issue.
The Irish Free State may have been neutral, but as the report hints, the nation was partial. De Valera made it clear to Germany that if the bombing of Belfast on April 15, 1941 were repeated, Ireland would retain its stance. Many Irish people fought in the British Army. The first RAF bomber pilot shot down was from Southern Ireland; as was the navigator in the last felled bomber in 1945.
Let English men fight English war's !
@@damienlindsay4569 let the Irish fight their own upcoming war with the immigrants, we will stand back and watch the paddies get overwhelmed and defeated !
It’s not exactly much of a threat from De Valera to Hitler eg -=“The Free State is neutral and if you bomb Belfast against it will remain neutral”. That’s really telling them!, The Fuhrer would have hardly been quaking in his boots with such a disincentive. As for those who talk about “English wars” - it was an international conflict that had impacted many nations - dealing with a genocidal megalomaniac who was attacking all around him including the small nations of Belgium and Holland was the responsibility of everyone.”
@@HoneyRanger More are swarming the UK than us. And they hate ye more.
@@damienlindsay4569 Sure and let nazi germany conquer the world and then claim it's all England's fault
Stay dumb
A lot of significant projects were undertaken by German companies including the Shannon Hydroelectric Scheme during the late 1920's and 30's. For the first time ever the Irish saw German technology and work ethic at work and were extremely impressed. There was absolutely no enmity in Ireland towards Germany and any attempt to join in the war against Germany would have been strongly resisted.
Even though the Nazis were murdering people on an unprecedented scale. Ireland wasn't interested in fighting evil.
Germany saw Ireland has a thorn in Britain's side but had a low opinion of what Ireland could achieve
@@GrahamCahill-uj3sc What is "achieve" supposed to mean?
There was zero prospect of Ireland becoming an Ally of Germany.
Even to this day most things German is regarded as high quality
What a nice touch of Ireland to open a book of condolence when Hitler died.
The English were shooting the Irish and then you expect them to go to war????
When? You mixing up your World wars?
The English not only fought the Irish in the War for Independence but they oppressed them for centuries; took their resources; their land once Cromwell said: To hell or to Connaught and banished them to untillable land in the West and ignored their plight in the potato blight famine. Why fight for the enemy, who would do that, let them fight their own battles.
Many Irish volunteered to fight - and joined British soldiers in the struggle against Germany and Italy. Those that survived didn't get much thanks for it on their return home despite the defeat of the fascists being vital to Ireland's interests. So we don't need any revisionist BS thankyou.
@@hittitecharioteer Well too bad they didn’t get any thanks for it; they couldn’t very well accept any English medals. Do you know if any were offered?
@@ALavin-en1krand burnt down cork about 15 years before WW2…
Good video. There are so many nuances. While many Irish volunteered for British forces, and worked in munitions, the "Loyalists" in NI resisted conscription. There were, I think, 8 Irish received Victoria Crosses (all Ireland). MacGennis, in Belfast, was not offered the Keys of the City as he was Catholic.
The film, The Brylcreem Boys, with Gabriel Byrne, gives a good view of the downed airmen, both Allied and Axis. Many Germans stayed in Ireland, and many migrated there in 1960s.
Now that Brexit has shown the value of the EU, and ROI has the freedom of both EU and UK, and NI has both, perhaps the island can finally reunite - without a shot being fired.
There were always trators. in every country
Rubbish an IRA leader frank ryan died aboard a German submarine , Nazis then and look how Nazi they are now,
if the Protestants of the North want anything to do with the South..but they do not.
The only countries in Europe which declared war on Germany before being attacked first by the Germans were Britain and France and although they declared war after the invasion of Poland they did almost nothing until attacked.
Ireland was occupied by Britain for hundreds of years. An occupation which cost, literally, millions of lives.
In what Parallel Universe could anyone expect Ireland to go to war on the side of Britain?
Why didnt you go on the side of Germany ,you had your chance .Cowards
countries switch sides ALL the time
i.e. Italy was an ally in the first WW and an axis power in the second ww
Absolutely yes! The nazis were enemies of humanity!
@@stephenbloch-wb8ef So is the US.
And Australia and New Zealand - small brave nations. - both from 1st day to the last day of both World wars.
"Ireland didnt"refuse to fight the Nazis". Ireland, like Switzerland and many other countries that didn't take part, remained neutral. Just 19 years before the war the British had sent the Black and Tans, most of them common criminals from the English jails, to terrorise and butcher unarmed civilians during the Irish War of Independence. All this while Irishmen who were then fighting for England in the First War. England, not Scotland or Wales was and still is hated for what they did during that time. My own mother who was a young girl in 1920, said that the Tans murdered farmers working in the fields and regularly burned down the houses and raped the women.
Do you think we would fight for a country the was and still is guilty of war crimes against our own people? You should read the history of just what Ireland went through in its right for independence. Those16 brave men who were captured in Dublin were put up against a wall in Kilmainham jail and shot. One of them in a wheelchair. We won't forget!
In Europe, only Britain and France declared war on Germany before being attacked.
Denmark ,Norway, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg were also neutral but it didn't stop German tanks crossing the border. Had the Irish /Celtic Sea not existed, they would have been rolling over, bombing Dublin, and set up a puppet government.
@@mikefraser4513Okay but the Irish Sea did exist so thats completely irrelevant. It was in our best interest as an island to stay neutral.
The civilized world will never forgive Ireland!
@@stephenbloch-wb8ef Womp womp, we won't forgive what the "civilised world" did to us in the past
Ireland was right to stay out of the war! After the economic war of the 1930s, we had no choice.
It was devalera who declared an economic trade war against the Britsh Enpire in 1933.
Devalera's first act as ruler in the height of the depression.
The flea attacked the elephant and the irish people suffered
@JayJay-vb7om I never wrote otherwise. The reality is that the trade war left Ireland's economy on its knees.
@@JayJay-vb7om Tans trying to make Ireland pay for its own land. Only ye colonial catamites would approve of this.
Many Irishmen fought fascism even if it meant being in the British army with all that that entailed. But completely understandable why Ireland had to choose expediency. A new state with little money and a dominant neighbour they did have to make difficult choices but stood by their morals and set their stall as a neutral nation like Sweden and Switzerland. They suffered deprivation during the war and depended upon trade with the UK. It worked out as well as could be expected for both the Irish and the British.
Most went to Spain,
The Irish fought British Faschism for 800 years.
portugal ended its neutrality in 1943
yet it survived and prevailed against hitler
Portugal sent raw materials essential for the german war effort to Germany until 1944.
Portugal sent raw materials to Germany up to 1943
@@fintonmainz7845 and the IRA was pro German and got support from the gestapo
@@JayJay-vb7om That's because they hated ye. Still do in fact.
@@Steve-gr6jm Ye sho has a lot of hate there
In May 1945 Eamon deValera paid an official prime ministerial visit to the German ambassador to offer his condolences on behalf of the Irish people on the death of Adolf Hitler
We don't care. Ye used concentration camps to kill people in Africa.
He is beneath contempt!
@@stephenbloch-wb8ef Apparently Dev was a personal friend of Dr Hempel. If he'd wanted to make a gesture privately I suppose that's his choice.
But he'd no right to make such an approach on behalf of the Irish people without their leave. This was weeks after the liberation of Auschwitz. He didn't make Ireland or himself look very impressive.
@@splinterbyrd But currently supporting an ongoing genocide like the US and UK are both doing, and defending them in the ICJ, that's fine is it?
@@splinterbyrd If all other countries and their people are not held accountable for the despicable actions of their government officials and leaders than you're pissing into the wind if you think Irish people are going to gaf about this. The mother and baby scandal, yes. Dev sending a mass card to some German doctor? No. We simply do not have enough fvcks to give.
I worked with a Londoner who was injured during the blitz who resented the fact that the lights burning allowed the bombers to home in on his city.
And that has what to do with Ireland?
Irish neutrality was indeed quietly skewed in the Allies favour. You mentioned weather reports and the release of aircrew from internment. I think elements of the Dublin fire brigade were even sent to help out when Belfast was getting bombed ) There was also a short cut for RAF flying boats to cut across the Republic from, I think Loch Neagh. I didn't know about Ireland being excluded from the UN. With hindsite that seems petty. You didn't mention the "Starvation Orders" imposed on any Irish servicemen who deserted the Irish forces to go an join British forces to fight. I don't believe this was applied to Irish civilians who joined British forces though. I'm no fan of DeValera, (being a half English bastard) but he was a wise statesman and did the best he could for Ireland.
Well. If that’s not an excuse for cowardice I’ve never heard one.
Well you clearly haven’t a clue
Explain why we owed ye a damn thing seeing as ye never helped us?
@@MurphysisbetterthanGuinness Victoria stout is better than murphys
@@JayJay-vb7om According to who?
@@MurphysisbetterthanGuinness According to the Guinness Book of World Records
I would say Ireland had more value as a neutral nation because it was able to access intelligence that it passed onto the British (covertly of course) that it would not had it joined the war.
the irish military and itelligence services worked with their british counter parts, hand in glove.
Both sides knew what was really at stake beyond devalera's personal bitterness.
BTW,
the british intelligence service notified the irish with a detailed report of the impending coup attempt of the IRA to take out de valera and the fianna fail.
the IRA agents were intercepted on the coast after being dropped off by a nazi U boat. They were then arrested, interrogated and executed.
You can thank Churchill
Irish Republic had secret agreements with Britain for cooperation during WW2
many people are ignorant of the many forms of cooperation between the 2 countries in spite of De Valera's boundless bitterness towards the UK
secret arrangements my arse re fuelling German subs spying for the Nazis lighting the way to Belfast for Nazi bombers,when IRA prisoners in the Crumlin road Jail In Belfast heard of the Nazi advances into the Soviet Union THEY CHEERED, That advancement meant the murder in cold blood of more than TEN MILLION SOVIET CITZENS..including the shooting of one point five Millions Jewish citzens . The simple and unulterable truth is that Eire was pto Nazi then and is pro Nazi and pro Iran now, an absolute disgrace to support the enemies of freedom and humanity,
@@zakmarsden5997 The way ye whinge about these u boat refuelling stations, I would think ye would have some better evidence for it. But no, it's just like those Brexit benefits. A complete figment of a diseased imagination.
@@davidrickwood5924 You should read the story of the B17 Flying Fortress, named “T’aint a Bird”, that force landed in Clonakilty, County Cork in 1943, it’s a great yarn. Last September my cousin, myself and our wives visited O’Donovan’s hotel, where the crew were “interned”. They were treated like celebrities before being
spirited over the Northern Ireland border! Furthermore, a retrieval team was “allowed” in to patch up the plane, which was then flown on to the UK.
@@MurphysisbetterthanGuinness that is the absolute truth, Eire helped the Nazis in whatever way they could. Churchill had threatened De valera with invasion if they had openly sided with Hitler,Millioms of people know the truth of it, and another thing there is a Scottish stout called Gillespies that is far superior to either Guinness of Murphys,
Switzerland, Sweden and Spain also remained neutral
Only France and Thr UK devlared war on the N before being attacked.
As did Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Greece, USSR, Lichtenstein, Albania, Monaco, San Marino, (and a few others) who remained neutral until attacked.
Most of the others were allies of Germany.
Despite this Ireland has had always good relations with Germany and Austria.
sure
germany sank over 20% of the irish merchant fleet and bombed dublin 2 times during the war
they were real pals
I often wondered if De Valera every considered joining the conflict after the US was dragged, kicking and screaming, into the war. After all, once the US were formally involved the result became a forgone conclusion.
I don’t think he did. He really wanted to express Irish sovereignty, and the fact that he went on a condolence visit to the German embassy after Hitler’s death says a lot.
@@mikequinn6206 he was secretly working for the UK. He was a double agent.
Please read Dev’s speech in reply to Churchill in 1945. One of the great speeches in History. Churchill apologised to him.
I didn't like dev but that was a great speech
My grandfather didn’t like him either and he was a contemporary.
Douglas Hyde, Ireland's president during the second world war, offered condolences to Germany's representative in Dublin over the death of Adolf Hitler, newly declassified records show.
Until now it was believed that Ireland's prime minister, Eamon de Valera, was the only leader to convey official condolences, a gesture criticised worldwide.
But the presidential record for 1938-1957, made public in 2006, sheds new light on one of the most embarrassing chapters in Irish history - its decision to maintain cordial relations with the Nazis even after news of the Holocaust emerged.
Please read Devs letter of sympathy to German Ambassador following death of Hitler
@@johnpurcell7525 Please read your justification for using concentration camps to kill, torture, mutilate people in South Africa and Kenya. Oh that's right, ye never justified it and are hoping people just never find out. Don't worry, we'll never stop bringing it up, especially when ye ignorantly whinge at us.
Jeez, this old chestnut again?! By 1939, Ireland was less than 20years out from under the yoke of British imperial colonization and only about 2 years out of a trade war with Britain. Even if Ireland had wanted to join the war, all they would have achieved would have been the utter destruction of its cities and infrastructure, such as it was following British rule who had invested absolutely zero monies into Ireland.
With no air force, no anti air defense, no real navy, Ireland would have had no defense. Britain meanwhile would have not had the resources to provide to Ireland. So, the only option was for Ireland to remain neutral.
Besides, nobody ever mentioned Portugal, Spain, Switzerland (a huge provider of coal to Germany, even while neutral) or Finland. Or even America who joined much laterr. It' always seems to be viewed that Ireland somehow betrayed their wonderful british friends by not joining them.
As well as the thousands of Irish who fought for Britain there were many hundreds if not thousands joined the merchant Navy I know several who sailed the Atlantic to bring the weapons to the Russians via Archangel . As well as allowing allied airmen and sailors to return across the border the Irish sent every fire engine it had to cross the border and help Belfast to put out the fires after Belfast was Blitzed . The area in Dublin that the Nazis Bombed just happened to be the very area were Irish People got the boat to travel to Britain to work in its factories Steel works and coal mines or to join its forces , it was believed in Ireland that Hitler sent the Bombers as a Warning for helping the War effort .
Many Irish served as firemen in the blitz.
Wrong ,
Éamon de Valera took the correct course in My opinion, guiding a seventeen year old country in it's best course of action through WWll. The Irish people have good reason to be thankful to Him.
An Irish patriot named Thomas Finucane who fought side by side with de valera in 1916. He worshipped de valera and voted for him and The fianna fail in 1932. . He named his first born son Brendan EAMON Finucane
After suffering under de valera"s catastrophic economic policies, He turned his back on Ireland and moved to England in 1936.
His son became the youngest ace and one of the greatest in RAF history.
Is one of the reasons people would be grateful to De Valera his handing them over to the tender mercies of the Catholic Church. The virtual theocracy that he created not only confirmed Ulster Unionists in their view the Home Rule was Rome Rule only on steroids with greater independence. Perhaps worse than that was his claim to free Irish people from the alleged oppressive rule of Britain while creating a nightmare of Church domination in all aspects of society, a denigration of women and their rights ; the attitude of shame that allowed the Magdalene Laundries to flourish and a form of Government that kept Southern Ireland one of the most backward countries - in social and economic terms - in the West and left children and others vulnerable in a theocratic state.
@@PaulJohnston-n5w Thank You for a very interesting comment. How is it relevant to My comment on His WWll policy?
Sorry I thought that my commentary was clear . I believe that you said that DeValera did the right thing in keeping a newly fledged country out of the 2nd World War and that Irish people should be grateful. My point is that there was much talk about morality and indeed hope in starting out as an Independent country. Indeed, many people discuss the general concept of a moral foreign policy. There’s a theory of “ Liberal intervention” which is complex but in certain circumstances there is a need to intervene. If ever there was a moral war then dealing with a belligerent Nazi State invading its neighbours especially the small states and involved in the holocaust - then this was it. Southern Ireland opted for neutrality. Churchill in a speech after the defeat of Germany made clear his views. “ His Majesty’s government never laid a violent hand upon them...and we left the de Valera government to frolic with the Germans and later with the Japanese representatives to their heart’s content.” DeValera seemed more interested in introspection and a theocratic Southern State - and this drove further wedges with Northern Protestants who even on their holidays in Donegal could see clerical power in many aspects of life.
@@PaulJohnston-n5w I don't agree with Your total script but thank You for Your for interpretation.
1,000 years of the English crown🙂.....how can you tell the difference .... between it and 😢?🙂.
I am not aware of any South or Central American country being shamed by USA in WWII for being neutral.
Ditto for Spain
The narrator keeps repeating and repeating and repeating the same themes
Germany wasn't attacking US or South America
@@johnpurcell7525 Oh YES it was
Germany attacked Brazil in 1943
Brazil and Portugal joined the allies after that
@@johnpurcell7525 Germany sank a lot of US vessels off the east coast.
Devalera did not want to open to the Allies it would have met change and opening to the world which Devalera tried to block at all costs
Interesting and un some ways their actions were understandable, but Ireland was never a colony. It was an integral part of the UK
anti - Catholic bigots was Britain and in 2024 nothing has changed..
Fantasist or troll, Ian ??
Oh dear. You need a history lesson.........
Ireland was a British colony. We never wanted to be part of the evil British empire
@@Donabate2
Both of ye are wrong lad just stop typing.
My enemy's enemy is my friend
The Allies bombed Switzerland did they not?
If they did it wasn't deliberate, though how this relates to Ireland only you can know.
@@slightlyconfused876 70 times is and error?
@@slightlyconfused876 The Allies had drawn up a contingency plan to take over the Irish Free State in the event they thought it might be threatened by Germany - Plan W. The ironic part of this was that the Irish Government was secretly involved in the planning.
Yes the Americans "accidentally" bombed Zurich to warn the Swiss to stop selling rifles to Germany.
When did American civil war soldiers take part in the Irish civil war?
strange set of collected video clips overall :)
Yea they must the Irish that joined the red necks and the Ivory Coast flag gets a good few looks in
At the time the war started the world did not see Germany as evil. It knew nothing of the extermination camps then. And concentration camps were not new. Britain started them in South Africa in the Boer War and they were an effective means of control.
As for Poland, a newly established country via the 1919 Versailles circus, who aside from politicians cared a fig? Same went for Czechoslavakia.
So why should Ireland have joined in hostilities? I cannot see any reason based on the information available and pklitical norms of the time.
Russians had concentration camps in the 18th century, and the Spanish in Cuba in the 1860s, calling them "campos de concentración." Don't blame us Brits for everything.
@@oldben5772 We don't. We blame ye for what ye did to Ireland and will not be spoken down to by anyone, but least of all your people.
Excellent balanced video on an important topic, thank you. Ireland was politically neutral during world war 2. However, it's people were anything but neutral and were partial to the Allied cause. For example in my own family who were Catholic and Nationalist, I have two grand uncles who served with the British in North Africa & Italy. Overall, current estimates are that ~ 140,000 Irish born persons served with the British, Americans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, & South Africans. As with so much of our Diaspora who chose the military path over the last four hundred years and served with exemplary fashion in the famed Irish Brigades, the 38th (Irish)Brigade of the British Army was an outstanding fighting unit throughout WWII.
Couple of additional points for consideration - (i) the role of the Catholic Church & the Vatican in Irish Neutrality in WWII is yet to be substantially explored; (ii) Discussions of our WW2 neutrality focus insufficient attention, in my view, on the Great War and the catastrophic casualties that we suffered ~ 49,500 Irish-born persons died, the highest percentage of any western belligerent. Consider for example, that knowledge of what happened to the troops of the Dublin's and Munster's on the SS Clyde at Gallipoli would have been sufficient to turn almost anyone off war.
As a Canadian with Irish roots I must tell you that your statement is deeply flawed , they were Canadians not Irishmen as we are made up of people from everywhere and we are all Canadian!
@@CliffordJessup He probably mean;t of Irish ancestry.
the country was NEVER neutral and was pro Nazi, there were a few exceptions like yours but as ive pointed out in previous posts then and NOW they are proNazi anti Jewish and Isreali and pro Iran, Absolutely disgusting .and what is even more disgusting are some of these posters who try to deflect Eire,s role, with absolute banal nonsense,
@@zakmarsden5997 Laughable comment from the supporter of a country currently on trial for genocide. I wonder what all those people who died in Auschwitz would say if they could see ye turned into the very people that murdered them. It might be entertainingly ironic if it wasn't so pathetic.
@@zakmarsden5997 the idea Ireland was pro nazi is laughable, we imprisoned german soldiers and released british ones. Also the fact you support Israel speaks for itself, claiming anyone who disagrees with Israels genocide as anti-jew is a straw man arguement
In 1840 40% of the British army came from the island of Ireland five years later over 1million people protestant and Catholic starved to death.
Did the Westminster government come to their aid?
Very few starve today under the Dail.
Latha math gu fhein
Feed the immigrants then, you are not taking enough of them in, shame on racist Ireland
the famine was a shock emergency that no one expected or was prepared for.
Westminster spent 8 million pounds in an attempt to end the famine
Blame the British is old and tired
@@JayJay-vb7om right
And the other 250million was a shock emergency too.
@@grahamfleming8139 huh?
Why do so many videos repeat material that was already covered earlier in the video?
For the UA-cam algorithm and increased income
Many other countries stayed neutral spain portugal south america mexico parts of africa
Anyway why become involved
With the allies blunder from
End of ww1 not fully occupying germany!
Mexico did not stay neutral
Brazil was attacked by Germany and joined the allies along with Portugal in 1943
As for Ireland's neutrality,
The respectful Germans sank over 20% of Irelands merchant fleet, bombed six Irish counties by "mistake" with Dublin being bombed twice. as well as the mining of Dundalk harbor
@@JayJay-vb7om They still killed less innocent people here than Britain did. I'll repeat that. Nazi Germany, killed less innocent Irish people, than Britain.
They defied the Americans as well, they wanted to use Irish ports. The yanks were not pleased!
the germans mined dundalk harbor and the irish were not pleased
@@JayJay-vb7om they also bombed Dublin!
Irelands position was 100% the same as the usa. That we stay out of it , unless attacked. The US was attacked and entered the war in December 41. Ireland wasn't.
And EVERY other European country except France and Britain.
Dublin was attacked
@@lindahughes4409 accidentally
Oh yes - “ stay out unless attacked.” Known in the diplomatic world as the “ Ostrich Position”
@@PaulJohnston-n5w Glorify war and be invade more countries than any other country on earth: known as the British position.
We fought the evils of fascist colonialism for 800 years. Most of the Allies fought it for 12.
and blah blah blah...
Churchill saved Ireland from nazi occupation
if you believe Ireland's fig leaf neutrality was a shield against hitler
Ive gpt a cheap bridge to sell you
@@JayJay-vb7om If you believe that any of us think ye were fighting Hitler to protect Irish people, who ye spent most of the thousand years prior trying to ethnic cleanse, or stop the Holocaust, which started about 2 years after ye declared war, ye must think we're as stupid as the yanks. Ye did what ye did for your own reasons. It was never for the benefit of anyone else and no re-writing of history is going to remove those camps ye used in Africa.
Two of my family fought in WW2 for the former empire. As much as I dislike De Valera I think neutrality was the correct way to go. Think of all the places in western europe that have american bases. The Irish Republic has 0. I think that De Valera was correct in saying " Whoever lands first is the enemy".
he said that because the US had already threatened Britain that it would invade Ireland...
That's a little know fact and also that the Irish government agreed for the RAF to relocate to Ireland if Britain was invaded by the nazis.
Gammons and bootlickers unite. Another chance to berate Ireland for having the nerve to break free of you.
I am not English
@@ValorandVice Doesn't matter. Any video talking about Ireland in WW2 has them swarming like flies. Which is fine, as it's the perfect time to ask them about those concentration camps in Boer South Africa and Kenya
@@MurphysisbetterthanGuinness 100% agree but ironic that we now rely on the RAF to monitor and defend our air space.
@@TonyM540 Depends what you mean by "rely on". Ireland isn't at threat from anyone, Russia occasionally sends perverts to aee what decent women look like but have no intention or ever invading us. The RAF are just looking after their own flank.
@@TonyM540 Defend it from what? Russian perverts trying to get a glance of what living in a free country looks like? They're protecting their own flank, it's very little to do with us and I very much doubt we would have any issues apart from the odd creep having a nose every once in awhile.
No, they actualy didnt remain nutural. Over 100,000 Irish men fought in the British army against the Nazis and some even deserted from the Irish army to do it.
And God bless them for it !
and to the GREAT shame of the de valera government they were demonized and mistreated upon their return.
The were no granted amnesty until the post de valera government in 2013
@@JayJay-vb7om We don't treat deserters well. No one does, not even in the gammon army.
@@MurphysisbetterthanGuinness huh? wah?
Who we white man?
and BTW Guinness is way better than murphy. and Victoria stout is way better than Guinness
@@JayJay-vb7om You've never tasted Murphy's. We don't serve it to tans. And no one anywhere has even heard of Victoria's Stout. Heard about her black soul though.
I was surprised that no mentioned was made of USA role in Eire's war time decisions. While the USA& USSR were neutral it was not complicated. But after entering the war USSR USA expected Erie to assist their war effort. The result was USSR veto of Erie's entry to UNO
This USA arranged support of the air corridor to the UK as well as movement of troops through Erie.
The harbouring of kriegsmarine subermarines nearly tipped battle of the Atlantic. Erie's government owed a debt for German assistance in the independence struggles, in arm supply and safe haven Germany provided to Irish nationals. The shrinking of the Irish economy after independence saw a decline in the Irish population. Many found employment in British war economy a process that could not have been taken place without independence. It could not have enforced by a London government.
As result of staying out of WWII Erie standards of living and health care became lower than the six counties and this is bigger barrier to a united Ireland.
@@waynecorker9098 “Harbouring of kriegsmarine submarines”??? Why are you repeating hoary old myths as ‘fact’? And Ireland’s economy had been devestated by centuries of the Brits keeping it as a backward agrarian breadbasket for England and its people regarded as dispensable or good only to be used as cannon fodder. The Industrial Revolution in Britain was backboned by the mindboggling theft of the British empire and most especially the rape of India. This Industrial Revolution never came to Ireland except for the Protestant planter north-east. What we’ve achieved since the 1960s is an economic considering the state the Brits left our country in until we kicked them out from most of it and the north is now an economic basket case compared to the republic.
"Harbouring of submarines"
Is there something wrong with you?
But they were put on the blacklist and spat upon when they returned home. They didn't fight for the UK...they fought against fascism and to liberate Europe,
@@mikefraser4513 Where is your evidence of people being "spat upon"? Which "blacklist"?
Men who deserted the Irish Army (a serious crime at a time of international crisis) were (rightly) barred from Government jobs for 7 years.
@@mikefraser4513 That, I believe, is a common misconception. Not only Irish civilians, but even soldiers serving in the Irish army, discretely crossed the border so that they could sign up to British regiments. The vast majority of them - even soldiers technically guilty of desertion - faced no consequences when they returned after the war.
In fact, returning veterans had several advantages, above all in employment. Most of the businesses in Dublin at least were generally Unionist in outlook, favoured support for the war and preferred to hire veterans when they returned.
I knew very many veterans when I was a kid. None of them ever complained of having being "spat on", and they all had good jobs.
Its much worse that this video makes out, on the death of Hitler Dev Valeria went to the German Embassy and signed A book of condolences for Hitler, while the rest of the world rejoiced! What an Irish leader! God help Ireland
It's much worse for Brits, knowing that they are so horrified by the concentration camps that Hitler used to kill innocent people, but then went on to use concentration camps to murder and torture tens of thousands of innocent people in Kenya after WW2 😢
@@ulsterman1066 The UK used concentration camps in Kenya about 6 years after WW2. Some of the things ye did over there included inventing a device which crushed a man's testicles right before castration in order to inflict the maximum amount of pain possible on the victim. I'm confused on how ye think ye have some moral superiority to speak to us in a tone that does not belong to a people that only survive by leeching 12 billion pounds a year from the English taxpayer.
There is absolutely zero evidence to suggest he signed any book. He went to the German embassy to offer condolences to his friend (the embassador), which is admittingly not smart but he was strict on following his neutral policies.
@@Shanking Yeah but the Orangutans need to fling something at us when they run out of their own fecal matter.
@@Shankingno he did offer his condolences to Germany after Hitller’s death. Disgusting and I am half Irish.
Because the enemy of my enemy is not my enemy.
If you read irish history. Ireland doesn't owe britain any favours.
Yeah only for Britain any Irish still left would be speaking German or working in slave Labour Factory
@@johnpurcell7525 Incorrect! We would have all been speaking Russian.
In 1941 when German troops invaded Russia they found Stalin's army preparing
to invade Western Europe. According to Soviet archives/ German records and many of the General's diaries
Stalin had over 30 000 tanks alone 8 million in uniform and his partizans were trained in '1937'..
At that point in time both British/French soldiers were huddled together on the Dunkirk beaches.
Who would have stopped that sizable force in 1941...no one!
Fortunately the Red army messed up when it came to unloading heavy equipment from train bogies
ending in the middle of no where ... the earth/ground was too soft. Then German troops turned up..
So, technically speaking, we owe our freedoms to the Nazis... lol and not to the 'stand aloners'
or uncle Sam and the big I AMs of historical deception..
Read a book pommy! You're living in the matrix if you believe your own historians..
@blueeyes402 it is also said that the only thing that stopped the Red Army from taking the rest of Europe at the end of the war was the use of the A bomb. 100% we would be speaking Russian without that terrible weapon. Anyway what's the difference between speaking German, English or Russian. All are foreign languages ???
@@johnpurcell7525 if it wasn't for Britain the Irish would be speaking the Irish language today., what point are you trying to make there, Britain enslaved Ireland for hundreds of years.
@@johnpurcell7525We’d already been forced to speak a foreign language and been used as disposable virtual slaves by the Brits.
Ireland’s refusal to allow allied ships to use Irish ports is said to have cost thousands of allied lives.
Also the British should never forget just how much, even now, the Irish loath and despise the British, although that didn’t stop generations of the Irish moving to Britain for a better life.
@@zuppymac-xi8rk. Funnily enough, I do understand the meaning of “neutral” when used in a political sense. Though I do wonder about being neutral when one side is murdering people by the million just because they were Jews.
Yes millions of Irish people did move to Britain, but that was for their own benefit. And as it turned out the British were very kind to Irish immigrants. They even had the vote and everything the real British had.
And the Irish famine was terrible, but the potato blight also affected much of north-western Britain and Scotland. But people coped perfectly well. The British therefore had difficulty understanding why the Irish were doing so badly.
BTW. The British army (or Black and Tans, as they were often called) reacted harshly only after a bus load of them were massacred by Irish nationalists.
@@zuppymac-xi8rk. Actually I’m of Irish descent. One of my uncles on my mother’s side, fought in the Irish civil war. He was a “free-stater”. So the Irish were “not as one” about things then. My father saw dead bodies laying in the street. It was pretty awful.
When my father came to England he expected to be badly treated being Irish, but he came anyway, because things were so bad. However he was treated very well and although it was the time of great anti-British sentiment in Ireland plus the time of the “great depression” and mass unemployment, he was given careful advice by the British about finding work, which he did almost immediately. He never forgot that.
My father never stopped “being Irish” but he appreciated the care and attention he was shown.
@@oldman1734 Ye still whinging about this when your streets and cities look and smell like a wet version of South East Asia?
@@stiofain88. Yes I suppose Britain must be awful. That’s why London is the first or second most popular place in the world for people from all over the world to flood into. (About twenty MILLION visit each year). Central London is historic with sights pretty well unmatched anywhere. Plus world beating theatres and shows together with marvellous food, so perhaps it’s not surprising people want to visit. Of course the transportation systems making travelling around easy for everyone is a great attraction. In fact, it seems many people just come to visit the world’s first underground railway system opened in London in 1863.
A lot more could be said, for instance the first modern sewage system, so London isn’t as smelly as you seem to think. But I think that’s enough for now.
@@oldman1734 Yeah I've seen your multi ethnic paradise. Amazing how a city in the heart of England can feel like a weird dystopia in India or Central Africa.
As for enough, no. You started something your gammon mouth should have stfu about. We have plenty to talk about still, like those concentration camps ye used in South Africa and Kenya.
The British sent the Black and Tans just two decades earlier. I would have joined Germany.
sure and ill bet the nazi occupation of ireland would have been loved by you too
So less than 2 years after full independence from the UK and after 800 years of occupation, starvation, plantations, land clearances, the UK causing the civil war by reneging on the independence deal by keeping NI, during a trade war with the UK for refusing to keep paying compensation for the return of Irish land and with NI still in occupation where the Irish were treated as 2nd class citizens in their own country, people are surprised Ireland decided to stay neutral rather than joining the UK ? That sounds like British justice.
and blah blah blah
and BTW, St Patrick was an English slave, captured and kidnapped by "good natured" Irish thugs
@@JayJay-vb7om He was Welsh. Another people ye invaded and subjected to your will. Embarrassed they haven't been able to get the jackboot off their neck yet but ye so have them surrounded.
@@stiofain88 huh? wah?
Who was Welsh, TOM JONES?
Im American BTW
@@JayJay-vb7om Ew. St Patrick was Welsh. Why are you even speaking on subjects that ye know nothing about? Which is essentially everything apart from avoiding gun control and funding apartheid/genocide.
@@stiofain88 why are you an anti American, Anti British idiot?
We had our own jackboots on our Necks for 900 years we didn't owe them any Favours
You owed the rest of Europe though.
@slightlyconfused876 we don't owe nobody nutting and never will!
@@slightlyconfused876The Irish owes nothing to Europe or anyone else.
@@slightlyconfused876 Owed the Rest of Europe WHAT???
🇬🇧
Irish suffers destruction from british.
Churchill was the man behind the Black & Tans.
@@Larry-tf5qo what a man 🇬🇧
Todays Irish political establishment parties would have joined one side or the other.
Thank god my country didn't fight for the globalists.
I am sure the 6 million Jews who died in the death camps agree with you, or maybe not.
Charles Trevelyan told Parliament, “The judgment of God sent the calamity (i.e. The Great Hunger of 1845-1853) to teach the Irish a lesson. That calamity must not be too much mitigated. The greater evil with which we have to contend is not the physical evil of the famine, but the moral evil of the selfish, perverse and turbulent character of the Irish people."
What does Ireland ever owe the UK when it was supposed to be a completely equal partner of the UK at that time?
One of the main reasons the loyalists in Northern Ireland will never accept being part of a 'united' Ireland.
How come NO LOYALIST got a VC during the War, with all their auld talk.
Yet Churchill offered Northern Ireland to De Valera during the war. The irony
@@Shankingya he was using it as leverage to drag Ireland into the war. They wanted Irish ports.
The words of DeValera “ Our first invader is our first enemy “
It's like someone who punches you in the face over and over again asking you to then asking you to help them punch someone else in the face for punching someone in the face.
over 300 000 irish men and women came to england during the war and proudly contributed to the common cause
in spite of demon devalera and his head in the sand view of the world
@@JayJay-vb7om Every single comment tans make about Ireland shows why those efforts were a waste of time. Ye're more ungrateful than today's "refugees".
It was just the Republic of Ireland that never fought Hitler. Northern Ireland did. 🇬🇧
I know, he's either slow or goldfish like attention span. More than likely both. 🇪🇺 🇮🇪 🇪🇺
Hid in the dockyards you mean.
@robertbarrett1528 the dockyards workers, i.e., the Dockers were most Roman Catholics.
@zuppymac-xi8rk most but not all the Republic of Ireland never fought although some very brave men did and they were mostly from the old unionist remnant.
@@zuppymac-xi8rk part of Ireland did fight. The British people of Northern Ireland and old unionists from the Republic fought for flag and empire.
More than half a million Irish people fought with the Britain, the USA, the AUS, and many other countries during the 2nd world War, The 1st World war the number would have more than a million Irish fighters. Regrettably far too many Irish men fought with the British army and under instruction carried out many brutal and savage attacks on people attacks in foreign lands going back hundreds of years
All churchill wanted was the Irish ports he wouldn't have cared a toss about the rest of Ireland
and who are you to speak for Sir Winston Churchill, the Greatest statesman in the history of the world,
Wasn't Ike's driver, Kay Summersby, Irish?
It's hilarious that Churchill, the man who sent the black and tans into Ireland trying to take the moral high ground.
Ireland had just become a country a young state of 10 or so years and after 800 years of British rule impoverished and broke especially after paying the equivalent of billions to the British in the divorce, tens of thousands did join the British in the war. Ireland had been dragged into many British wars on Irish soil.
What would Ireland's motives to fight Germany have been? I can't see any.
Fighting evil maybe 🤦🏻♂️
@@cityzens634 We did fight evil. For a hell of a lot longer than any of ye did.
@@Steve-gr6jm Who’s ye? I’m from Poland and will always be grateful for the UKs huge contribution during WW2
@@cityzens634 No other country went to war to "fight evil". Why should Ireland be any different?
@@markaxworthy2508 Most of the world eventually joined Britain in fighting the evil nazis much to their credit
There appears to be an irish kneejerk reaction to do what ever was opposite to british government action. Eg the selection of steel helms(german helmets) for the free state army.
Nice fantasy, the helmets were chosen because they were better, in fact they form the basic design of almost every helmet in service today worldwide.
Irish army helmets were produced in the UK.
More nonsense from you lot.
Plenty of Irishmen enlisted in the English military.
As has been said elsewhere. When will we see your video about all the other european countries which did not declare war in germany before AH attacked?
How is a soverign country not obeying Churchills orders “defiance“.
There is something seriousely wrong with you
The video is specifically about Ireland and Churchill was one of the 3 major leaders of the war against Germany, and one who specifically asked Ireland to join the war effort. And Ireland was newly independent from Britain, and was part of its sphere of influence and a member of the commonwealth. Not obeying request of such a person at that time in history was defiance as there were bound to be consequences from it, and yet Ireland stood by its decision. It’s something what discussing and I am sorry if it triggered you.
@@ValorandVice Ireland still isnt independent of the UK and how that occurred has not been included.
@@ValorandVice “obeying a request“
What kind of language is that to use?
I repeat.
When will “obey my reauest“ to make similar videos about other countries in a similar position?
@@ValorandVice I will regard failure to obey my request as defiance and you will face consequences.
To describe my response as being “triggered“ just shows your bad character.
@@ValorandVice "not obeying the request"
That is an absolutely perfect example of British arrogance, entitlement and ignorance.
Switzerland and Portugal were neutral too.
Britian is occupied and continues to occupy ireland.......why would we fight to for our occupier?
Occupied by immigrants now 🇹🇷🇹🇴🇹🇳, it's our land now 😁
@@HoneyRanger .....have you been to London lately love?🤣
@@pdalaigh correct, yes, London is also ours now, inshalla, Ireland soon I pray
@@HoneyRanger Yep allah is so powerful he cannot exist without brutal dictatorships and the Wests backing....🤣
Did someone say “Britain continues to occupy Ireland ??? Keep drinking the Gatorade. Although in truth the UK and USA or the US via their UK management -and then add the media means that the UK probably has far more control of the Irish Republic’s everyday life than it did in 1920. The Premier League alone takes up a fair amount of the youths’ money and time. And I’m not quite sure who owns the Health Service but I doubt if the profits are being reinvested in the country in which they are generated.
We saw some sketchy pictures. American civil way?
It wasn't that Ireland 'defied Churchill', that was just an excuse. The British fought for the freedom of Europe and indeed the world, at great cost. Sadly Ireland didn't give a damn about the freedom of others, who suffered greatly, whilst the Irish stuck to their 'principles', shame on them!
Duncan, the Brits and France knew full that Hitler was building up huge Military Reserves prior to 1939 and his attitude to Jews was well known from his ramblings in 'Mein Kamp' yet they sat in their holes and were caught, not with thie pants down in '39/40 but without a fig leaf to cover their modesty. Hitlers went through the 'might' of both their Armies like Faecal Matter through a goose and if one were to listen to some English Peole you would think they alone stopped Hitler. 'WE WON THE WAR'''.What a load of nonsense. If the the two main countries, as well as several other far more populous countries than Ireland, in Europe so easily capitulated to the German Forces what sense would there have been to Ireland opposing Hitler. Real Politique, which you British go on about so often to justify talking to Despots, demanded that Ireland stay out of that War
Britain fought for freedom for once, the majority of history it was oppressing millions
Shame on Britain. They should have joined Germany against the real war criminals, the Brits. Churchill sent the Black and Tans to Ireland just two decades before.
We here in Israel often wonder why Ireland seems so against our country. Your video goes a long way to explaining why this is so. In the end, choosing neutrality over morality is, to our mind, the wrong decision. In fact, today's Ireland seems to prefer supporting the "forces of resistance" instead of our admittedly flawed democratic State of Israel.
How many relatives do you have who volunteered to fight in WW?
The biggest supporter of your country in Europe is Germany. Says a lot.
@@fintonmainz7845 That I know of who fought in WWII: 1 in the Canadian Air Force, as a Navigator; 1 who fought with the Canadian Navy as a Radar Technician; 2 who fought with the Canadian Army in Europe. All saw combat.
@@RM-cz9td but we're they conscripted,? Hundreds of thousands of Irish men VOLOUNTEEred to fight the Germans. They did not have to do so.
Since you believe the lies in this video I know that you will believe propaganda which is what your views regarding ireland are based upon.
We in Ireland have a very accurate portrayal of Israel, unlike the US, which either pretends not to know or witness the amount of innocent people ye murdered for the last three decades. Don't ever make the mistake of thinking we're as stupid as the donors giving ye the handouts which keeps your worthless apartheid regime afloat.
Older American here. Good video, but I found it to be a bit repetitious.
The video is full of lies.
It's always a good idea to read the comments first.
The decision was entirely cynical self interest. It was not a moral choice but a moral death. The fighting Irish afraid to fight fascism !!!
DeValera actually commiserated with the death of Hitler. What a coward when he knew about the death camps. Not all Irish agreed with DV.
Yet Ireland benefited hugely from the European peace that ensued. Cynicism and cowardice rewarded.
Which european countries declared war ob Germany?
@TommeahTommeahTommeah
Because of treaties.
Facism and racism came from Britain. - with their Race "Science" - it was only mid twentieth century that scientists stated that their Scientific Racism was wrong!
70,000 Irishmen fought in the War and 50,000 died in WW1 and 7 VCs were were won by Southern Irish Men WW2, where only one was won by NI men and he was a Catholic, who had to leave the North after, because he could not a job. Also remember that The Battle of Waterloo, according to Wellington, would have been lost but for the fierce resistence of 'my Irish Roman Catholic troops'.
@@peadarocoileain902 Thank you. Too many brave men to mention - Paddy Mayne. It was DV and the deep seated anti British mentality that was the issue.
AI trying to pronounce Irish words hurts my brain.
Because the Nazis would have been less as destructive as the British were in Ireland.
You're talking out of your arse and you know it.
@@stanleywoodison8699 They directly or indirectly killed a quarter of our population and we still don't even have all our land back, so no. He's not actually.
Very Interesting. Thank You!
A better question would be why did England join the war , when one attacked them . HITLER was a big fan f the English
Perhaps because we knew what a German dominated Europe would mean for our trade and independence? Plus, we'd already learned Hitler's word could not be trusted.
And many of the British elites had supported Hitler coming to power too. But because the Russians were going to eat Hitler for dinner eventually and the toffs who own Britain didn't want Europe going socialist. Britain would've had a working class revolution eventually in that case and the royals and toadies wouldve been out on their arse. So instead of letting that happen they got in on the fight. After the war they even helped prop up the Germans and worked alongside Nazi war criminals to keep the reds out of Europe.
Also, Britain didn't want Germany getting in on the Imperialism game and being a threat to its own international interests. The Nazis made Germanic empire building one of their explicit goals for the reich after all. They wanted to play catch up with the rest of the European colonial powers. The British empire has largely dissolved since anyway and the Brits these days have to play second fiddle to the Germans as Americas pets in Europe.
As averred to in the video, I think it probably surprised many in Ireland at the time that the British didn't dispatch the Royal Navy to retake the 'Treaty Ports' -- Lough Swilly, close to the city of [London]Derry, but just across the border in the Republic; Castletown Berehaven on the SW coast, and most especially, Cork Harbour, aka 'The Cove of Cork'. All three were excellent natural harbours commanding the Western Approaches; the latter also having extensive port facilities, having previously been Britain's primary naval base on the island of Ireland. One can imagine the conversation going something like, "Yeah guys, we know we gave them back only last year, we know that was a part of the deal, but speaking of deals, you must have heard about this Austrian 'loony' who's torn up Versailles, and, well, look - things have _changed!"_ Indeed, I believe a deal was even mooted where if Ireland joined the War on the Allied side (practically speaking, the return of the ports to Britain and the facilitation of airbases for the RAF would have in all probability been deemed "close 'nuff"), close consideration would have been given to the ceding of the six counties in the N.E. of the island still controlled by the British to the Republic following the conclusion of the War.
The only reasons I can figure that Britain didn't engage in a bit of gunboat diplomacy to secure the ports were that, A, any use of force would be liable to naus up the diplomatic efforts to secure aid from, and the hoped for alliance _with_ the United States; and B, given that Irishmen were _already_ enlisting by the tens of thousands in HM forces to fight H••••r, it was thought far better to 'keep them sweet' rather than to risk them 'pi55ing the bed' out of spite! ('A' being far and away the primary consideration, I reckon...)
As for a deal involving 'The North', I say this as a historical layman, but it's my belief that with the Irish War of Independence being still fresh in the minds of both parties, not to mention the ugly civil war that followed it, it was recognised on both sides that a bloody repeat would be the result of any attempted withdrawal of the British from the Six Counties, only this time with guerillas loyal to the British Crown (if not necessarily the British _Government_ - and most certainly not the _Irish_ State) in the featuring role!
While as an Irishman I do believe De Valera, with his deep antipathy to the British, his shakey grasp of economic realities, and worst of all, his problematic stance on the sepration of Church and State, held the country back by, and for, decades. Nevertheless, I think he quite correctly understood that moral considerations with regards to putting it up to 'the Nasties' (or not) were entirely moot. Ireland's joining the war on either side would have unquestionably have resulted in her cities being bombed to rubble by the other, with invasion quickly following. While I would question many of the details of how De Valera handled our neutrality, I believe the basic fact of it was the only rational, indeed, the only _possible_ choice.
Finally, notwithstanding that a World with H••••r posed a nascent little country like Ireland some strenuous questions, not only of a moral nature, but indeed, strategic and geopolitical ones - most specifically, that surely the very best that a country like Ireland could hope for in a continent run by H••••r would be an existence as a vassal state, like Vichy France, or perhaps Spain; these were questions for 'down the road'. While H••••r was indeed a special case, it is hard to argue with the proposition that the first duty of a leader is to his people; and his secong duty, following from the first, is to keep his borders secure. As disagreeable as I personally find De Valera to be, for the reasons I mentioned, and others, I think - certainly in the context of the war - he succeeded admirably in those imperatives!
A few points. The opposition were in power for sixteen years from 1922 to 1957 and they were far more obsequious to the RC Church than Dev ever was. The Civil Service of the day-the Permanent Government and mainly British trained- also played a substantial part in holding back the country. The only really outstanding Civil Servant was Ken Whittaker and he was appointed by Dev, with heavy opposition. as he broke the promotion on Seniority Rule, in appointing him.
Moral cowardness!
@@stephenbloch-wb8ef Ye never helped us. We're under no obligation to help you.
@@stephenbloch-wb8ef The British Forces showed a lot of courage when they ran away from Hitler's Legions and had to be evacuated via Dunkirk.
Allied personal and axis personal where both imprisoned in the Curragh camp during the emergency years.
As it was a open prison many of the allied prisoners escaped and made their way back through the northern border.
Even some of the axis prisoners also made a break from the Curragh.
Some were recaptured and sent back to the Curragh some Even got work in farms and had been allowed to go to college while being held in the Curragh camp.
As Ireland held the League of Nations championship Dev. was entitled to pay our respects to a leader of a member of the league.
Ireland had been blockaded by the allied forces so Ireland had to allow some concessions ie the Donegal Corridor and other flying boats allowed to use ports so as to allow our merchant navy to bring in supplies. Many Irish people had been members of the allied forces even held top positions with the forces even in the planning of the DDay landing. Ireland provided emergency services to northern Ireland when bonbed buy the axis powers this was seen as why the German forces bombed Dublin.
Churchill even offered Ireland a unified Ireland once we entered the war. Internationally Ireland was seen as a protagonist of peace throughout the world and often became the middle man in peace negotiations even before being allowed to become a member of the UN.
indeed Churchill offered up the six counties if Eire joined the war...
The Germans hoped to use the IRA to destabilise the North and British bases But American troops were also in the North in numbers. The IRA agreed to help. More worrying was the Nazis asking the IRA for the names of Jews living in Ireland -about 8500- in a ominous move.
@@thomas-xj1hs Churchill never "offered up the six counties". He proposed a joint defence arrangement whereby both jurisdictions would cooperate militarily in the war and he declared that this would undoubtedly lead to close ties that would result in re-unification. Of course the N.I. politicians weren't even aware of this, let alone approved of it. A complete non-runner.
@ well…you need to examine this more closely….
The liberal moral philistinism of this video is painful. It's not like the Allies never committed atrocities.
Ireland was right to stay out of WW2
yes well why would a pro Nazi country fight the Nazis,
@@zakmarsden5997 You're currently funding a genocide my small hat wearing fascist.
@@zakmarsden5997 Except it wasn't pro-Nazi
@@sean_d only if you were born on mars.it wasnt, it was one of the most anti Jewish countries in the world then and was pro Nazi through and through, To this day it is the most anti Jewish anti Israeli country in the world outside the middle east , Its plain for the whole world to see that things havent and never will change Nazis and Fascist then same now.
Their neutrality was highly regarded by Adolf Hitler.
He invaded neutral countries in 1940 and 1941.
Why on earth should I listen to somebody who can't even pronounce the word Taoiseach on modern Irish history? Everybody knows it's pronounced tee-shirt as in tee-hee shirt.
@TommeahTommeahTommeah Are you a "robo" yourself by any chance?
@TommeahTommeahTommeah yours must be in a desperate state.
If Ireland had bc part of America at tt time, there would hv been no controversay.
If Ireland had suffered any damage, it would hv been quickly rebuilt bcz it would hv been part of the U.S.
Note, if Ireland became the 49th state, Hawaii would hv bc the 51st state. Which would hv made the TV series Hawaii-Five O, Hawaii-Five-1.
Alternatively Hawaii 5 O would have been set in Sligo.
Sligo? Plse tell me what is Sligo. Tks.😊
This is All Malarkey, the Irish government lacked moral courage then and now !
you are talking through your hole
It is easy be courageous with other peoples' lives.
Do yous think Hitler would have stopped if he had successfully invaded GB? When Ireland was letting American AF land here in Ireland!
Also Hitler would have murdered all the Jews in Britain and Ireland (about 8000 Iriish Jews}
Hitler did not even want that war started by UK.
Not good history.
the Irish even let the USA and UK use bases here in Ireland for Catalina water planes to patrol the seas around Ireland and the Atlantic ocean 1 of these bases is only 19 miles from my home in Wexford its also know that Mr. Churchill hated the Irish long before ww2
Perhaps you are thinking of the fact that allied flying boats were allowed overfly Donegal from Lough Foyle to get to the Atlantic directly? I suspect you are mixing up WW2 and WW1 when there was such a base at Wexford, but it closed in 1918.
@@sean_d hi Sean nope there is 1 in Wexford town just on the outskirts where a hotel is now situated the slip way is still there to this day and im sure there is photographs in the Wexford archives
@normandixon4571 Yes but not used in WW2 when we were neutral
The Irish government hated Britain more than the most evil regime in modern history. The Irish government made life terribly difficult for any of their citizens that did actually go and fight for Britain, yet didn't punish people who had volunteered to fight for the Nazis. An Irish historian did a documentary about this.
The Irish Government 'made life difficult' only for those men who had deserted from the Irish Army (such as it was) to join the British Forces. In countries that weren't neutral, men could be shot for doing that. Very few Irish citizens fought for the Nazis. You may be thinking of O'Duffy's six hundred who went to fight in Spain for Franco in 1937. De Valera was quietly glad to get them out of the country, since many of them were of a political persuasion that rejected de Valera's stance of neutrality and would have wanted Ireland fighting Russia.
Show the list who volunteered to fight with the nazis. Got any? 😂😂😂😂
Why would I have a list? I am simply telling people what an Irish historian said, and that I heard on the radio. Not that interested either way, it is pretty ancient history as far as I am concerned.@@washerdryer3466
@@andrewg.carvill4596 No the professor I heard talking was definitely talking about World War 2. Wish I could remember his name he was very interesting.
There has been far too much 'smoke' blown around about this issue of Irish citizens being targeted for serving in the British Military/War effort when they came back to Ireland. As has been explained by a number of others, the people who were targeted by the Irish Government were predominantly those who deserted the Irish Armed Forces. They were just a small % of the thousands who left Ireland and went to work/fight for the Allies in the UK.
Ooh Ahh 🇮🇪✌️
@@stiofain88 🇬🇧