If you don't do anything novel like Nanite but instead just want to make a conventional 3D game like anything made in the 2010s basically, would Mesh Shaders as a replacement for Vertex Shaders (basically) really improve performance? Somehow I doubt this.
Depends on how you implement Mesh Shaders. If you just replace the Vertex Shader with Mesh Shader, without optimising your assets for Mesh Shaders it won't do much, and might be even worse. But by optimising the assets it'll be faster and you can compress the mesh data better, because you don't have to provide standard index and vertex buffer. You can check AMD RDNA 3 architecture talk about Mesh Shaders, they showcase both memory and performance gains by using Mesh Shaders. Also, Alan Wake 2 uses standard Mesh Shaders (without anything like Nanite) and they've noticed improvements (one big improvement is per-primitive culling). I recommend watching Erik Jansson's talk "GPU driven Rendering with Mesh Shaders". Furthermore, you can better utilize threads on GPU while instancing which gave me huge improvements with instancing heavy scenes. And there are several areas yet to be utilized by Mesh Shaders like the procedural, foliage and particle rendering, which can see performance improvements over the current methodologies. PS. Nanite doesn't improve performance compared to standard LODs. So unless you need tons of vertices on every object and can't use LODs, using Nanite will lower your performance. And the current GPUs are still improving the Mesh Shaders implementation (RDNA 3 adding wave-wide offsets), so we will see further performance improvements with Mesh shaders in the future.
@@ardaurum sounds good. well I hope some games actually use mesh shaders to improve performance. because lord knows Remedy won't. Alan Wake 2 runs like xxxx. I'm getting tired of every new software innovation being used as bloat on top of bloat, requiring hardware that does not exist yet to run acceptably. the games industry desperately needs to rediscover optimization.
I recommend watching Digital Foundry videos about Alan Wake 2, because on hardware that supports Mesh Shaders it works incredibly well, and first GPUs that support it are already 6 years old. Also on PS5 it works well already and they are improving the performance with new patches. It's demanding, yes, but it's well optimized. It's actually quite different from modern games that use UE. Using Nanite and Lumen without research and relying to much on OOP single-threaded code.
If you don't do anything novel like Nanite but instead just want to make a conventional 3D game like anything made in the 2010s basically, would Mesh Shaders as a replacement for Vertex Shaders (basically) really improve performance? Somehow I doubt this.
Depends on how you implement Mesh Shaders. If you just replace the Vertex Shader with Mesh Shader, without optimising your assets for Mesh Shaders it won't do much, and might be even worse. But by optimising the assets it'll be faster and you can compress the mesh data better, because you don't have to provide standard index and vertex buffer. You can check AMD RDNA 3 architecture talk about Mesh Shaders, they showcase both memory and performance gains by using Mesh Shaders. Also, Alan Wake 2 uses standard Mesh Shaders (without anything like Nanite) and they've noticed improvements (one big improvement is per-primitive culling). I recommend watching Erik Jansson's talk "GPU driven Rendering with Mesh Shaders". Furthermore, you can better utilize threads on GPU while instancing which gave me huge improvements with instancing heavy scenes. And there are several areas yet to be utilized by Mesh Shaders like the procedural, foliage and particle rendering, which can see performance improvements over the current methodologies.
PS. Nanite doesn't improve performance compared to standard LODs. So unless you need tons of vertices on every object and can't use LODs, using Nanite will lower your performance. And the current GPUs are still improving the Mesh Shaders implementation (RDNA 3 adding wave-wide offsets), so we will see further performance improvements with Mesh shaders in the future.
@@ardaurum sounds good. well I hope some games actually use mesh shaders to improve performance. because lord knows Remedy won't. Alan Wake 2 runs like xxxx. I'm getting tired of every new software innovation being used as bloat on top of bloat, requiring hardware that does not exist yet to run acceptably. the games industry desperately needs to rediscover optimization.
I recommend watching Digital Foundry videos about Alan Wake 2, because on hardware that supports Mesh Shaders it works incredibly well, and first GPUs that support it are already 6 years old. Also on PS5 it works well already and they are improving the performance with new patches. It's demanding, yes, but it's well optimized. It's actually quite different from modern games that use UE. Using Nanite and Lumen without research and relying to much on OOP single-threaded code.