Another point to keep in mind; these streams are geared towards entertainment, so the players invited tend to play entertaining styles (spewy, aggro, etc). In spots where tight play or disciplined pre-flop folds might be the optimal play, you aren't likely to see that on streams.
Very good advice for the newer players, James. Thank you for helping newbies understand that high stakes streams are for entertainment ONLY. Keep up the great work!
They also run antes and threaten to kick you out for playing too tight pre flop This affects opening ranges and 3-betting ranges Players often make plays they would never make if it wasn’t recorded
The only goal of poker shows (now it's stream but I'm still a bit old school, I know) is to entertain viewers. P. Galfon explained it we he told the story of his first appearance in Poker After Dark. The director thanks him after the first session because he was a nit and didn't bring enough action with hands we shouldn't play usually. It's still fun to watch and my GF still enjoy watching them with me :)
Watching the streams is almost as much a waste of time as poker forums. Streams of pros is rarely going to be anywhere near what you're going to encounter at small stakes in a casino. Forums are far more often people that don't really know what they're talking about or just there to bitch about their bad beats. Neither is going to improve your game.
@@Woody13woodpecker Sure am. 😅 Lost too much at Cash games, lost hundreds of bucks on Stars and 888. But that was YEARS ago. Live cash games aren't really an option where I live, but I'm actually considering to play some live tourneys some day. My brother wants to help me with the budget, perhaps. I'm currently struggling, I'm unemployed. But tourneys on GG is where I had most successes with. You gotta stick with the stuff, you're profitable with, right? 🤔
I have those streams on in the background as im working. I agree they are entertanment only. It would be sabotage to try and enact most of what is done on streams.
I used to watch that stuff and in fact 2005-2006 Live at the Bike when it was real people playing plus a few real pros with good content is still sthg I watch but more moderj stuff than that I don't bother with!
Such a solid view of the live streams games. As someone who is for profit. And moving into more advanced play & learning There is absolutely min/nothing to learn from them. Altho fun to watch! If anything I think using that to try to learn plays would be detrimental to your game... the postflop work book is a great tool as well as flopzilla. Thanks split for the vids& learning material & knowledge you share.
I am fortunate to live in an area that streams from Texas Card House...real games at reasonable levels...5/10, 5/10/25, etc. Since I play there, I watch to learn about my opponents! It has paid off a number of times. Streams like HCL don't really do much for me personally.
Great video. Thanks. I figured this out recently and I"m glad to hear it validated. Please get autofocus on your eyes as they're out of focus in this video. Best! Thank you.
I don't know if I necessarily agree with what you said about the comments. But it's certainly true that you'll ALWAYS gonna find someone who disagrees. Who thinks, he would have played it better and that your opinions suck, yada, yada, yada. And it sucks, I hate when people just keep fighting in comments all the time, almost no one is nice, everyone's just annoying. But I'm deliberately putting myself through this all, too so that I can learn from that, too. There are so many different kinds of people and I kinda love them all.....
Worse part of poker steams is that streams encourage trash talking and slow rolling which is NOT ok at the table. Poker should be played with etiquette and class.
James, I agree with one major exception. I analyzed and tracked hundreds of hands on various streams of various betting limits to test the hypothesis that at low limits, whoever won the pot (without a showdown) probably had the best hand at the time, but at $50-$100 levels and above, winning (without showdown) was mostly about bluffing. (I guess that’s two hypotheses.) Anyway, at low limits, whoever won a pot (without a showdown) nearly always really had the best hand when the last player folded. Example: Top pair bets enough to get a flush draw to fold and the hand is over. But I was wrong about high limits. Even with wild nutcases like DGAF in the game-who I saw four-bet preflop with 84s-once the later streets arrived, if someone won the pot without a showdown, even THEN they probably had the best hand. (Less often than at $2-$5, but still at least 75% of the time.) The big river bet is *probably* not a bluff, even at $200-$400 with Rampage in the hand. Now it might be a semi-bluff, but actually the “semi-bluffer” hand still beats the “folder” hand when you can see both hands. So… Ed Miller was right. Even with the craziest players, believe the big river bluff unless you have a GOOD reason to suspect the player’s full of it. But it needs to be a GOOD reason, not, “Eh, I saw this person bluff the river a week ago, so maybe this is a bluff too."
The problem with this logic is that, when facing a bet, you are always (yes, always) getting >1 :1 odds to call. Someone's pot-sized river bet might be for value MOST of the time, but if it's for value only 60% of the time, it is still profitable to call, even though you will lose the hand more often than not.
I watch for entertainment, but occasionally I see a hand that makes me think of a similar situation I was in, and then sometimes, I switch gears to analyzing that situation, but I am watching for entertainment.
I dont know for a fact but I bet 90% of these games every player is staked. There is no way guys like Mariano, Rampage and all other poker vloggers went from playing 1/2 and 2/5 only 2 or 3 years ago to playing 50/100 its impossible to grow your bankroll like that in a few years. My guess is they are all playing with house money and they get a small fraction of it. Pure entertainment not reality.
Even as just a former 'house player/VIP Manager', if you're being paid to play, you don't play your 'best' game. I could reload from the house & was paid whether I won or lost; making action was my sole kpi. To be precise, the house took 100% of my downside, I got 10% of any upside & my draw maxed at PHP10k/hr in 250/500. Being white & speaking Pilipino got me that job, but the owners were closed down over Baccarat losses.
Ok...i thought playing in a freezeout that had add on (!?!???) was a crazy 1st for me...but 3rd blind?? Im not new to poker...but ive never heard that before today
I have many other things I watch for entertainment (Poker and other things) than the highstakes content. I enjoy more that are in the realm of possible play by me, up to 5-10, then watching the nosebleeds.
I often wonder if all the stream games are actually legit. Like the million dollar hands on Hustlers streams. Are these guys really risking 1.5 million on a hand of poker? Is their bankroll really deep enough to support that type of play? Some of these guys I never even heard of until they started playing live streams. So it makes me wonder. I'd expect Phil Ivy and Dnegs to be in legit games with millions on the line.
Around the time Hustler started to blow up, I could see a decline in my game and even life. Triton Poker is the only stream I can watch now a days. I'm more engaged, pausing at times to think about why and what some of the pros are doing. Hustler, LATB, even The Lodge I can only watch if there's a clash of great professionals but even then I have a short life expectancy on those streams.
This is just simply wrong. Using RFID, the streams show the audience the actual odds throughout the hand, so the audience can see where the mistakes are made. There are two kinds of people, those who learn from their mistakes, and those who learn from the mistakes of others.
Lol the odds are not the deciding factor. If player A shoves with a boat and his opponent has a Royal Straight, player A is going to have 0% odds. So by your logic he made the wrong play? I think you should study more
@@Bozogumps Yeah, you can't control the odds. However, his main point is still relevant. Learning from mistakes is a valid reason for watching Streams.
@@aheroictaxidriver3180 It was an extreme example but a clear one. Just because you have a worse hand and worse odds doesn't mean betting is a mistake. Watching streams with that mindset will have you taking away the worst lessons
Join *The Cash Game Crash Course* today and learn actual skills that apply in the games you play: www.splitsuit.com/cash
Another point to keep in mind; these streams are geared towards entertainment, so the players invited tend to play entertaining styles (spewy, aggro, etc). In spots where tight play or disciplined pre-flop folds might be the optimal play, you aren't likely to see that on streams.
Very good advice for the newer players, James. Thank you for helping newbies understand that high stakes streams are for entertainment ONLY. Keep up the great work!
Cheers!
They also run antes and threaten to kick you out for playing too tight pre flop
This affects opening ranges and 3-betting ranges
Players often make plays they would never make if it wasn’t recorded
The only goal of poker shows (now it's stream but I'm still a bit old school, I know) is to entertain viewers.
P. Galfon explained it we he told the story of his first appearance in Poker After Dark. The director thanks him after the first session because he was a nit and didn't bring enough action with hands we shouldn't play usually. It's still fun to watch and my GF still enjoy watching them with me :)
Watching the streams is almost as much a waste of time as poker forums. Streams of pros is rarely going to be anywhere near what you're going to encounter at small stakes in a casino. Forums are far more often people that don't really know what they're talking about or just there to bitch about their bad beats. Neither is going to improve your game.
I had to quit /poker reddit because you can't ask legit questions without trolls coming in.
Jeez I was expecting a video like this for 20 years!!! Big thank you.
Better late than never =) And you're very welcome!
They all just want your money.
Except for James.
He GENUINELY wants you to improve your game.
Its true. I waded through the weeds of poker coaches/websites and James Sweeney's material is by far the best value of all other material I've seen.
😁
You, Sir, have a live cash game mindset!
@@Woody13woodpecker Then why am I stuck at online tourneys?... 😅🤭
@@chanceneck8072 🤔🤔🤔 well, you might be masochistic? 👀
@@Woody13woodpecker Sure am. 😅
Lost too much at Cash games, lost hundreds of bucks on Stars and 888. But that was YEARS ago.
Live cash games aren't really an option where I live, but I'm actually considering to play some live tourneys some day. My brother wants to help me with the budget, perhaps. I'm currently struggling, I'm unemployed. But tourneys on GG is where I had most successes with.
You gotta stick with the stuff, you're profitable with, right? 🤔
I have those streams on in the background as im working. I agree they are entertanment only. It would be sabotage to try and enact most of what is done on streams.
SplitSuit Rules!!
I used to watch that stuff and in fact 2005-2006 Live at the Bike when it was real people playing plus a few real pros with good content is still sthg I watch but more moderj stuff than that I don't bother with!
Such a solid view of the live streams games. As someone who is for profit. And moving into more advanced play & learning There is absolutely min/nothing to learn from them. Altho fun to watch! If anything I think using that to try to learn plays would be detrimental to your game... the postflop work book is a great tool as well as flopzilla. Thanks split for the vids& learning material & knowledge you share.
I am fortunate to live in an area that streams from Texas Card House...real games at reasonable levels...5/10, 5/10/25, etc. Since I play there, I watch to learn about my opponents! It has paid off a number of times. Streams like HCL don't really do much for me personally.
It's pretty sweet to be able to study your specific opponents via streams 👍
Great video. Thanks. I figured this out recently and I"m glad to hear it validated. Please get autofocus on your eyes as they're out of focus in this video. Best! Thank you.
Cheers!
I don't know if I necessarily agree with what you said about the comments. But it's certainly true that you'll ALWAYS gonna find someone who disagrees. Who thinks, he would have played it better and that your opinions suck, yada, yada, yada.
And it sucks, I hate when people just keep fighting in comments all the time, almost no one is nice, everyone's just annoying.
But I'm deliberately putting myself through this all, too so that I can learn from that, too.
There are so many different kinds of people and I kinda love them all.....
Worse part of poker steams is that streams encourage trash talking and slow rolling which is NOT ok at the table. Poker should be played with etiquette and class.
James, I agree with one major exception. I analyzed and tracked hundreds of hands on various streams of various betting limits to test the hypothesis that at low limits, whoever won the pot (without a showdown) probably had the best hand at the time, but at $50-$100 levels and above, winning (without showdown) was mostly about bluffing. (I guess that’s two hypotheses.) Anyway, at low limits, whoever won a pot (without a showdown) nearly always really had the best hand when the last player folded. Example: Top pair bets enough to get a flush draw to fold and the hand is over. But I was wrong about high limits. Even with wild nutcases like DGAF in the game-who I saw four-bet preflop with 84s-once the later streets arrived, if someone won the pot without a showdown, even THEN they probably had the best hand. (Less often than at $2-$5, but still at least 75% of the time.) The big river bet is *probably* not a bluff, even at $200-$400 with Rampage in the hand. Now it might be a semi-bluff, but actually the “semi-bluffer” hand still beats the “folder” hand when you can see both hands. So… Ed Miller was right. Even with the craziest players, believe the big river bluff unless you have a GOOD reason to suspect the player’s full of it. But it needs to be a GOOD reason, not, “Eh, I saw this person bluff the river a week ago, so maybe this is a bluff too."
The problem with this logic is that, when facing a bet, you are always (yes, always) getting >1 :1 odds to call. Someone's pot-sized river bet might be for value MOST of the time, but if it's for value only 60% of the time, it is still profitable to call, even though you will lose the hand more often than not.
I also watch them... for entertainment only. by hope fish don't catch up and keep taking the plays they see there seriously.
I watch for entertainment, but occasionally I see a hand that makes me think of a similar situation I was in, and then sometimes, I switch gears to analyzing that situation, but I am watching for entertainment.
You can learn almost nothing from these streams, I agree. But lots of fun!
I dont know for a fact but I bet 90% of these games every player is staked. There is no way guys like Mariano, Rampage and all other poker vloggers went from playing 1/2 and 2/5 only 2 or 3 years ago to playing 50/100 its impossible to grow your bankroll like that in a few years. My guess is they are all playing with house money and they get a small fraction of it. Pure entertainment not reality.
Even as just a former 'house player/VIP Manager', if you're being paid to play, you don't play your 'best' game.
I could reload from the house & was paid whether I won or lost; making action was my sole kpi.
To be precise, the house took 100% of my downside, I got 10% of any upside & my draw maxed at PHP10k/hr in 250/500.
Being white & speaking Pilipino got me that job, but the owners were closed down over Baccarat losses.
totally aggree. Thx James
Ok...i thought playing in a freezeout that had add on (!?!???) was a crazy 1st for me...but 3rd blind?? Im not new to poker...but ive never heard that before today
You’re absolutely right about the comment sections lololol
I have many other things I watch for entertainment (Poker and other things) than the highstakes content. I enjoy more that are in the realm of possible play by me, up to 5-10, then watching the nosebleeds.
What is the truth?
Very nice video split i See u bro
this is at least a 25 year old phenomenon... ESPN was doing shit 'poker streaming' in 2001... want to learn how to play poker? try playing it
I often wonder if all the stream games are actually legit. Like the million dollar hands on Hustlers streams. Are these guys really risking 1.5 million on a hand of poker? Is their bankroll really deep enough to support that type of play? Some of these guys I never even heard of until they started playing live streams. So it makes me wonder. I'd expect Phil Ivy and Dnegs to be in legit games with millions on the line.
I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to wonder.
Around the time Hustler started to blow up, I could see a decline in my game and even life. Triton Poker is the only stream I can watch now a days. I'm more engaged, pausing at times to think about why and what some of the pros are doing. Hustler, LATB, even The Lodge I can only watch if there's a clash of great professionals but even then I have a short life expectancy on those streams.
you rock
tyty!
Triton streams though
Poker streams aren't there for learning, their purpose is to bring rich, fame loving fish, the staple of any good game!
Basically a PR.
I don’t trust the integrity of the games either
I find myself shaking my head or holding my arms up at some of the donkey plays on these streams...
I want lern more.
Imagine how unlikely it is that the assertion "Watching poker streams causes players to become worse" is true.
This is just simply wrong. Using RFID, the streams show the audience the actual odds throughout the hand, so the audience can see where the mistakes are made. There are two kinds of people, those who learn from their mistakes, and those who learn from the mistakes of others.
Lol the odds are not the deciding factor. If player A shoves with a boat and his opponent has a Royal Straight, player A is going to have 0% odds. So by your logic he made the wrong play? I think you should study more
@@Bozogumps Oh, that's right, I forgot. Poker is all about knowing about a hand that happens one time in one million. You are a genius.
@@Bozogumps Yeah, you can't control the odds. However, his main point is still relevant. Learning from mistakes is a valid reason for watching Streams.
Third person is who does both, no?
@@aheroictaxidriver3180 It was an extreme example but a clear one. Just because you have a worse hand and worse odds doesn't mean betting is a mistake. Watching streams with that mindset will have you taking away the worst lessons
The comment section lololol! You’re spot on
I always knew that streams cheated players like when this so called school teacher fishbaum folded AA BEFORE the flop. Rigged for sure. 😮