Truly among the best. NASA only awards people and companies who have already done the work to show their potential, meaning many of them will play a considerable part in our space future.😁👍
The first welding in space occurred on the USSR's Soyuz-6 spacecraft in October 1969, then aboard the US Skylab and Soviet Salyut-7 space stations in 1973 and 1984 respectively. And this is really amazing as well.
Yes, it took 40 years to weld in space again. And using the same technology as all the previous tests... One thing is for sure - we did it way cheaper!
Weightless environment welding was tried and I think some, vacuum welding, but still inside a vessel. I wonder what would be different when welding out in space itself? The uneven heating by the Sun, as the thing being welded circles the Earth and the small amount of atmosphere and space debris could make a difference in a weld that must be perfect, not to mention the difficulty of positioning the Welder or welding machine when there is nothing to brace against.
Google says The first welds in space were made in 1969 by Soviet cosmonauts on the Soyuz-6 spacecraft. In 1973, the US performed welding experiments on the Skylab space station. In 1984, Soviet cosmonauts made the last welds in open space on the Salyut-7 spacecraft. In 2024, the European Space Agency performed an automated weld in orbit using an electron beam welding gun. So not this bunch are not the only one's who have done it. Pity. I was looking forward to this, but when it starts with a lie I stop right there.
Save the space station for parts! There are tons of useable parts and equipment that could be salvaged at the dry dock! Just the nuts, bolts and screws would be useful.
A proof of concept mission ultimately geared to asteroid mining, a part of that would be refining metals , we could start practicing in low earth orbit with the ISS. It would certainly be cheaper then trying to do that on an actual asteroid! Frankly I just wish I had the solar panels!
@@manoellotti8440 Yeah it really is dumb AF to just let the ISS go even if a new bigger better station is made. Having an extra station up there is just universally handy even if it's older and more inferior.
@@lannyplans The metal is corroded. Thats the issue. Its not the tech, its the materials that are compromised. LOE has traces of oxigen and Hydrogen and plenty of heat on the day side. It takes decades but it degrades
Its a heap of junk already. Even screws were subjected for years of radiation and heat cycling which makes them weaker. If you want to use it then you need to build metal smelting facility on orbit as well. and something for different metals separation. As long term plan it is good. But in the next 50 years probably not so much.
@@willabyuberton818 actually this technology solves that too. We know water is a great radiation shield and you can make a radiation shield by just sandwiching you water reservoir between two walls. The big problem is launching that into orbit but this fixes that because you can essentially build multiple shells then launch the water to fill the reservoir to fill the area between them and you have the best non lead radiation shield that we can theoretically make and it doubles as drinking water storage.
Das sind doch tolle News. Gerade die neuen Innovatoren bringen wieder neue und andere Ideen in das Geschehen. Wirklich hoch interessant, danke für diesen Beitrag!
I love the NIAC interviews, by far my favorite interviews. I love science but speculative science just pushes my brain in ways the already known does not. Helps me look towards the future and I love it.
Its funny because i just bought a laser cleaner/welder for my shop and my nephew asked about electron beam welding and why i didnt get one of those machines😅. Aside from not having a giant mountain of money to pay for an electron beam welder, and to function they require a vacuum around the work piece. And as i say this i can see the wheels turning in his head and he says "well wouldnt that system work in space then?" So i thought for a srcond and came to "yeah it probably would". Anda little more thought and itd probably be the best bet because you dont want a bunch of white hot blobs of metal beads shooting off at your space suit and popping holes in it or melting and sticking to your face plate. I remember when reading book 4 of the expanse, one of the characters is a 0-g vacuum welder. During the part where he welds something up in orbit, the authors mention a hot spark sticking to his face shield. That always struck me as what the hell kind of welder would you use out there? Hell ive been welding for years and every once in a while ill catch a hot one either getting on to my shield or itll find its way down my shirt or like the one time i decided to fire up ye old mig welder while wearing flip flops and one of these little incandescent bastards landed right in the middle of my big toe. And here on the ground an incident like that is at worst a little pain and a lot of irritation, but up in the vacuum those little sparks can be lethal
What an interesting interview, thanks Fraser. I love this concept of building things in space instead of having to launch completed structures. Ya know, when he was showing some of the sample electron beam welds they look exactly like TIG welds. Add in a second tool to add filler along with the weld tool and you have a fully complete welding system, capable of additive manufacturing.
wow this was really awesome! i can imagine a connected ring of these "orbs" spinning, with a center orb where the docks can take place. it would have zero gravity in the center. maybe a gigantic "bearring" that can hold the pressure while still allowing a sort of spin while docked? or even slow down the spin of the structure while something is docking.
The bearing can be behind airlock doors. When nothing is moving through the bearing, the bearing can be kept in a vacuum. The bearing can be pressurized and the airlock doors opened when moving stuff through the bearing. This would make leaks in the bearings more acceptable.
I think an extra non-pressurized mechanism can work better: A docking table at the pole, that spins opposite to the station to appear non rotating to the incoming ships. That makes the docking easier, after the docking table holds a ship, it starts rotating the ship to match the station Then the ship can connect to the final pressurized mechanism. To undock, you disconnect the pressurized mechanism, and then use the docking table to stop the ship rotation before it is released
I was just talking with a friend of mine, today, that worked as a certified, pipe welder and other qualifications, about welding in outer space. I asked him if he thought an inert gas like Argon would even be necessary in a "vacuum," since flux or inert gases were necessary to protect the weld from contamination from "air." He thought maybe an arc couldn't form in a vacuum. I said I thought air was not necessary to form an arc...that the electricity would complete the circuit, if the distance was close enough. Odd that I ran into this video on the same day.
@@jameswest4819 Well, I don't think that a flow of freed electrons is considered an arc, but... here is my take on "can you make an electric arc in vacuum" question: In theoretical perfect vacuum with infinite atom removal capability? No arc can happen. But, there is never a perfect vacuum, and also when there is a large enough electrical potential, the ions from the conductors will start to free up, eventually enabling an arc. One a small arc happens, a lot energy and material is released from the conductors, creating even better conditions for a sustained arc. Does it help with arc welding? Not unless you want to consume your cartode and anode in the process
@@vholub1 If you have ever welded anything, with, for example, low hydrogen rods, you have to drag or push the rod along the intended path on the metal being welded. There is an arc that forms and the rod and its flux melts and heats up the target being welded. I do not think your analogy about consuming the cathode and anode is correct. Just how close or far the arc is formed is not something I've heard or read about.
Continuing a conversation from Fraser's last NIAC interview. Can't you just imagine this station, the example that can open, receiving a small Rubble Pile from an Asteroid Return Vessel? Something the size of a small car. Apart from the obvious science opportunities, a partner company like Space Forge could experiment and develop resource extraction, refinement, and in space construction. We're on our way folks. 🥳🎉😄
Good Idea... A few decades down the line, find a nickle iron asteroid, cut out a ten tonne block, melt it with focused mirrors, spin up a block for more even heating. When melted, Inject super heated steam to the core and inflate it to an oblate sphere. Pull out the tungsten tubes as it cools and you have initial entry ports at the poles. Walla! An inflatable metal habitat, walls as thick as you please.
Yep 👍, glad to see I’m not the only one thinking of that. I’ve always thought of it as glass blowing technique at the mega scale using metal, and implementing similar techniques as glass blowers.
@@YellowRambler It's already been examined, about 15 years ago. The whole notion assumes a purity in the asteroid metal that just doesn't exist. Were anybody to actually try this, the whole thing would just fly apart into molten gobbets. Better to mine it, smelt all the metals, and then build O'Neill Cylinder Habitats inserted into the cavities left by the mining, expanded as needed. That way, you have plenty of radiation shielding and lots of raw materials available for your community of tens of thousands inside the comfortable cylinders.
I know I'm not the first to say "Torus!!!" But I would add- if you're making ring sections that you weld together, they could start out on a roll- the whole piece, varying in width as you go around, rolled up.... unroll, weld the end, and you've got a ring... repeat for each ring, weld the edges together, then boom you've got a torus. Not sure if aluminum, or steel, whatever... if you don't exceed it's elasticity it would be a bit like a big spring, you don't have to bend/form it. Or maybe it's just straight when unrolled, you pull the ends together and weld them? It's easy to see this scaling to truly huge dimensions. :)
This is probably my favorite video from this channel. I've been waiting soooo long for an explanation for plausible ways to create GENUINE large-scale(don't wanna say megastructures cuz I don't want people to come for me in the comments😅) structures in orbit😁👏🏾
2000m³ is the volume that a 1000m² (10k ft²) building has. That's between 4 and 5 average US single family homes. And that's the smallest size (single launch of New Glenn). It would accommodate between 20 people (with the same living space as we have on earth) and 100 people (submarine style). With 20 or 100 people, the "furniture" and interior structures in the sphere become the limiting factor to how many launches you actually need per volume. If you can build an empty shell in 1 launch but then have to send 4 more to get the equipment in, then why wouldn't you dock 5 separately launched modules together? That is, unless you actually need space that's mostly empty, say for growing plants or assembling/ disassembling spacecraft.
Something like a pull starter on small engines to dock with, it is static while a ship is docking or leaving, and arms extended out to reingage to aline with passages to outer ring
How would a space station using artificial rotational gravity account for mass moving throughout the station? i.e. as mass moves toward the center, the spin should accelerate, and as it moves to the outer edges it would slow down.
It would have to have a really strong reaction control system, that’s for sure. One option is to keep most mass in the ring stable, mostly furniture and permanent systems.
@Zacharysharkhazard I was thinking the same thing. And with advanced enough sensors to track the movement of mass maybe a counter weight system could be used. No matter what it seems like it would be a huge power draw to manage.
@@samo1372any station with a feasible (100m+ diameter) gravity ring would require either a sizable nuclear fission reactor or a very massive solar array to keep the thing powered, probably in the megawatts of power generation. Feasible once we start launching nuclear reactors into space, and reusable superheavy launchers come online.
When you started discussing artificial gravity, it brought up some images of the Phoenix ship in For All Mankind in season 3, previously the Polaris Orbital Hotel, which it self was based on the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey. Thank you for sharing!
Space welding Geodesic dome habitats sounds like an interesting career path. I'm also interested in the concept of using wood for an "ablative" sheild for future space stations. The next space station really does need to be using artificial gravity, micro/zero G does seem pretty bad for your health.
What if, for hull construction, you used square panels with disconnecting servo motors allowing you to make an adjustable structure geometrically? It could be adjusted to allow for access to any areas scheduled for work. It wouldn’t be pressurized.
Wow! Absolutely mind blowing concepts there. it’s amazing how far you need to extend reality possibilities to get NASA’s attention. Hopefully Jared Issacman makes this more streamlined a process. The future (well beyond my 59 years) looks like all those science fiction novels & movies from the previous 200 years will come into fruition. Wish I was a ‘highlander’ & could witness it all!
One thing I would be interested in is how dirty the process is. Does this welding generate orbital debris that is minor and likely to deorbit quickly or is it a bigger problem so the work has to be done inside some sort of bubble to contain things.
I'm thinking spherical space stations whose outsides hold the air in (and have airlocks & docking ports) but don't spin. Then 2 or more "ring decks" could spin inside it (on the same axis) in opposite directions to provide spin-gravity while preserving net zero rotational inertia. The hardest part is distributing the weight so you don't trash the bearings or wobble like an out-of-balance clothes dryer.
You'd be constantly spending a lot of energy to overcome air friction and turbulence, trying to spin your counter rotating gravity rings inside a pressurized volume.
We mine Luna to build prefab components, and mass-driver them into orbit, at which point they're assembled at the spacedocks into very large structures indeed.
With that name, he was destined to build Void(space) Tech. The name of the station should be Voidtech Whole hub. 😂 Kidding aside, great news, looking forward for these to become real.
Space manufacturing will become the new Green. Space will allow us to create materials which are purer then we can create here on Earth. Space manufacturing can also help lower carbon emissions here on our planet. Less land used for manufacturing means more land for people and agriculture.
24:33 I guess small crafts could dock with a (nondestructive) harpune tether that emulates longer range cable elasticity by a backdrivable motor on the cable roll, that to avoid damaging jerks.
@ they do have the technology built into spacesuits for the joints like elbow and knee that allow bending/pivoting and movement...i dont know if im agreeing with you or not to be honest lol, either way love to hear other peoples input and ideas.
We have no idea what level of reduced gravity is required to preserve human health. We've wasted 60 years floundering around in LEO without ever testing for the effects of lowered gravity, like maybe the Moon, or Mars, to gather actual data about this subject. We have a pretty good idea what "micro" gravity does but that's not really of much value when we are thinking about a Moon base or Mars base. "micro" gravity only applies during the travel time while local gravity will be experienced for much longer on an extra terrestrial base.
The problem with welding in space is it is harder to cool an object than it is to heat an object. But at the wattage you are using maybe there is less problem.
That is absolutely correct, but the welding needs only about 2kW of power with speed of over 10 mm/sec, which would make the large welded metal barely change is temperature.
It is doable, but due to the forces required it needs very strong fixturing before welding. Also, you are left with entry and exit holes after weld is done. Not ideal for pressure vessels.
Teslas' Artemis makes large scale assembly in orbit much more practical. We don't need Artemis to work autonomously; tele-operation from the ground is better than having astronauts doing space walks because Artemis's hands are much more suited to handling tools. The gloves on a space suit make it nearly impossible to do simple things like putting a screw in a hole.
16:02 3.0mm to 4.8mm thickness of pressure shell - mostly for micrometeorite protection not for the pressure. That's would neen just one mm (with how much safety factor left though?).
The movie The Martian had a good idea of artificial gravity. They had module attached to a ring. This is a good idea because you could start small an get bigger to the limit if the design
I feel like there is a better way to build this.. put a wire bending machine in orbit, and set it producing ngon rings of large diameter, tie those together to make a gigantic geodesic sphere. then lightly inflate a balloon inside of the geodesic sphere using an inert gas for welding, like 0.001 psi or something. to get stuff in and out, either use a docking ring and plate or just accept the loss of a few kilograms of gas and poke a hole in it, or pump it down into a tank then poke a hole. do all your fabrication in the low pressure atmosphere, use the inert atmosphere with a compressor to do conventional inert gas welding. nice thing is you can contain all your debris, there is no vacuum welding phenomenon, and you can use a reflective interior and have 3d positioning tags all over the inside for machine vision. I am not sure how you would handle thermal regulation, maybe a glorified mini split heat exchanger plumbed to several sides of the structure? As for dealing with particulates, if you spin it up a little, centripetal force should deal with it, static charge might make a levitated oxide layer though near the walls.
Hey Fraser, you briefly touched on the 'cold fusing' of metals in space. Could this process also take place between small grains during early solar system formation? As I understand it there is a gap in our knowledge about early planet formation, basically how did smaller pieces stay together. Something to think about for your Q&A. Oh, while I'm here, another question for your show. Do objects in LEO, which experience atmospheric drag also cause wake vortices in atmosphere that thin?
So... welding in space. And if SpaceX Spaceship ever becomes fully reusable and brings launch cost down, you could bring up 8 meter wide ring segments and use a robotic arm and a welding robot to join them into an orbital torus structure. Send up a bunch of combined Whipple shield and polymer composite radiation shielding in panel form to bolt to the outside of the torus, and suddenly, you have more living space in orbit than we could use in decades, spin it and you could potentially live there for years. Connect the torus to a central non rotating in space assembly plant/dock, and you suddenly have the first version of Earth Spacedock.
That is exactly the plan! 8 meter max dimension segments for Starship and two 6 meter robotic arms with welding tool attachment. First though we have to do our homework to convince investors that we can do this, through the boring stuff like products and revenue...
Sounds like a good idea but we should think about the ecology of our planet. A space dock is an excellent idea but what would it take to launch enough material to do it.
Imagine if space were filled with breathable air how might this have transformed human civilization, from interstellar travel to our understanding of the cosmos, and would we already be sailing the stars or facing entirely new cosmic challenges?
It would be a lot worse, because the friction would slow down all spacecraft. They would have to thrust constantly to keep moving, which would require huge amounts of fuel. Putting something in orbit would be hugely expensive.
@@vholub1 Excellent point, or if the air was like a light switch in space, earth would probably turn into a fireball right? Going at almost 70k miles per hour around the sun.
I did not understand the problems involved in producing a torus for spin gravity. What are the issues involved in switching to torus structure? Also, are aluminum extrusions, perhaps with embedded carbon fiber reinforcement, shipped in rolls a suitable method to apply as over wrap improve hoop strength on large spheres?
Hy Fraser, I was wondering if anybody is thinking about building a hydrogen-gas station in an orbit around earth? I’m thinking about using electrolysis to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. Once built the station could use sunlight to split the water and use a little bit of that hydrogen and oxygen to cool the hydrogen gas and some of the hydrogen and oxygen could be used to create electricity, water and heat if the station is manned. If there is enough on board then the water could even be used as a radiation shield. And any waste water could be recycled back into the system. This would reduce launch costs a lot I think because the rocket would only need to carry the fuel needed to escape the atmosphere and not any fuel needed later on in the spacecrafts mission. That spacecraft to fuel up at the gas station for the next phase of its mission for instance to get to the moon where they are planning all this industry and science to take place. The initial costs might be big, but once in operation you could create a nearly closed loop energy system on that system using the hydrogen and oxygen it’s producing anyway. Any spacecraft that comes along to refuel, brings water from earth with it to replenish the fuel it took from the station. It only needs to bring regular water which is much denser and you really don’t need that much water to produce enough hydrogen and oxygen. Not only that but if you man the station it could double as a “pitstop” for orbiting satellites for all kinds of maintenance. This would reduce the need for new satellites as the once that are already up there could live and be productive much longer. So that would help reduce the amount of space debris aswell. So it would be like a service station for cars, but then spacecrafts. I know the ISS is already there, but that's a science mission. This would be an actual practical service station.
First thing i thought when I saw the plans for the ISS. Why don't they send panels instead of whole sealed modules? An octagon where each wedge is the size maybe 40% of a module. Sure you could do the welding thing, I was thinking more of some kind of a hook joint, Japanese woodworking uses many different designs. Figure if there's always a vacuum, it'll always be pulling them together. No need to weld them everywhere.
Welding in space and even metal foundries would be more efficient and less pollution than here on earth. The major concern in wielding is shielding gas to keep air out of the melted metal if you don't the air that we breath will cause porosity and week weld. With the proposed cost per KG to orbit with Starship could cut the cost of Titanium refining by 50% or more and increase the safety 100-fold. Wielding Titanium in space in a vacuum is just as easy as wield common steal on earth and could be done with a mig wielder without the need of shielding gas or wire fed laser wielder. It could be done with old school stick wielder with uncoated wielding rods for any metal. Orbital assembly and manufacturing are the next industrial revolution, the possibilities of new metal alloys are endless.
I imagine a lot of thought would have to go into water shields. Too much weight for outer walls would put a lot more stress on structure. May need zones or some algorithm for placement? Not an engineer.
A sphere is the most efficient shape for volume, but it isn’t efficient for human use volume. A sphere isn’t a very efficient shape to be supported to a structure. A cylinder is easier to be supported and for some layouts can be very efficient for human use volume. Ideally I would spin a volume even if you are only creating a microgravity of acceleration for items inside the cylinder.
Looks great! Can those spheres be floated in Venus atmosphere? And won't nuts-and-bolts / rivets provide for better sealing / maintainability vs. welding?
Does a Super Heavy booster have the power to put into orbit a Starship that would have 2 times smaller tanks, no head tank, no heat tiles, no ailerons/flaps, and that would be about 40% lighter? If so, then this Starship could be transformed into a space station. The space gained would offer ~1,500 m² of pressurized volume, or 50% more than the International Space Station. International Space Station cost: ~$150B SpaceX Starship Space Station cost: ~$2B (1.5x volume)
Once in orbit, the lower half of the Starship, which contains the engines and tanks, could separate and burn up in the atmosphere. The upper part could be equipped with Draco or Super Draco engines positioned in such a way as to allow the movement of the "ISS Starship" in all directions.
Why go for welding and not for reversible almost 100% strength preserving fir tree joints? Especially when an expensive isogrid is millled then these exta structures won't dive the cust up much relatively. Not? Or is there a much cheaper method than milled isogrids proposed here?
As mentioned in the video: A lot of focus is on not air filled structures and for these there's not even the benefit of not needing a bladder in case of welding rather than tough rebersible means of joining.
I would think that a roll of metal would be more useful than plates, for this purpose.. A roll of metal can be welded into any shape, with a little trimming, as can a plate, but a roll offers less welding as you need only weld the two faces. You could use one roll for the exterior and build a cylinder, while using a smaller roll for interior walls, partitions, decks and such and can cut plates from it as needed. Like building a ship on land, you will need to cut holes for access for wiring, piping, machinery to be dropped in, and such, but, in space, all the interior could be built and then the exterior added, wrapped around the interior. We will have to think in different ways to get this job done in such a different environment!
Excellent interview, but he was not exactly making sure he was answering the question. You persisted nicely. Too bad he evaded the cold welding question, which was well asked.
Doable, but less strength to mass ratio than aluminum, and the thinner steel would make for more stringent tolerances. The reason Starship uses Stainless steel are only its thermal properties and high melting point. That is mostly relevant only for a reusable rocket.
This method will be very useful for storage tanks but why wield it? Wouldn't cold wield + pressure locking it be enough? Most of the space stations are just bolted in no? Do the initial assembly, put minimum pressure in it to find out leaks/failure points then ship the insulation fabric+plumbing and electrical. Rinse and repeat.😂
Why not just build a huge cube let's complicated and easier to build a dock and door. Build whatever you need to build inside the cube, roll up the huge door and outcomes star destroyer or something smaller. Don't really need to look cool just need to be functional to start. And easier to repair😂
These NIAC interviews are so cool.
Truly among the best. NASA only awards people and companies who have already done the work to show their potential, meaning many of them will play a considerable part in our space future.😁👍
The first welding in space occurred on the USSR's Soyuz-6 spacecraft in October 1969, then aboard the US Skylab and Soviet Salyut-7 space stations in 1973 and 1984 respectively. And this is really amazing as well.
Yes, it took 40 years to weld in space again. And using the same technology as all the previous tests... One thing is for sure - we did it way cheaper!
@@vholub1 - i said it was amazing.
Weightless environment welding was tried and I think some, vacuum welding, but still inside a vessel. I wonder what would be different when welding out in space itself? The uneven heating by the Sun, as the thing being welded circles the Earth and the small amount of atmosphere and space debris could make a difference in a weld that must be perfect, not to mention the difficulty of positioning the Welder or welding machine when there is nothing to brace against.
There is an exhibit in Moscow of this experiment
Google says
The first welds in space were made in 1969 by Soviet cosmonauts on the Soyuz-6 spacecraft.
In 1973, the US performed welding experiments on the Skylab space station.
In 1984, Soviet cosmonauts made the last welds in open space on the Salyut-7 spacecraft.
In 2024, the European Space Agency performed an automated weld in orbit using an electron beam welding gun.
So not this bunch are not the only one's who have done it.
Pity. I was looking forward to this, but when it starts with a lie I stop right there.
11:00 I KNEW IT! He wants to build Imperial Star Destroyers. 🤣
@@OdinReactor more like Starship Troopers
Who doesn't?
Save the space station for parts! There are tons of useable parts and equipment that could be salvaged at the dry dock! Just the nuts, bolts and screws would be useful.
My insane plan is using three starships to boost it into lunar orbit
Dividing the work load by three starships makes their recovery possible
A proof of concept mission ultimately geared to asteroid mining, a part of that would be refining metals , we could start practicing in low earth orbit with the ISS. It would certainly be cheaper then trying to do that on an actual asteroid!
Frankly I just wish I had the solar panels!
@@manoellotti8440 Yeah it really is dumb AF to just let the ISS go even if a new bigger better station is made. Having an extra station up there is just universally handy even if it's older and more inferior.
@@lannyplans The metal is corroded. Thats the issue. Its not the tech, its the materials that are compromised.
LOE has traces of oxigen and Hydrogen and plenty of heat on the day side. It takes decades but it degrades
Its a heap of junk already. Even screws were subjected for years of radiation and heat cycling which makes them weaker.
If you want to use it then you need to build metal smelting facility on orbit as well. and something for different metals separation. As long term plan it is good. But in the next 50 years probably not so much.
my favourite video of the last month. Thank you for setting up the interview Fraser. So cool.
We need to do this and make a massive mars cycler with it. You could send hundreds to mars at a time with that.
Why?
Radiation shielding is the limit, not volume. For that you need mass. For mass, you need the moon.
@@willabyuberton818 actually this technology solves that too. We know water is a great radiation shield and you can make a radiation shield by just sandwiching you water reservoir between two walls. The big problem is launching that into orbit but this fixes that because you can essentially build multiple shells then launch the water to fill the reservoir to fill the area between them and you have the best non lead radiation shield that we can theoretically make and it doubles as drinking water storage.
The moon would be better and easier
Das sind doch tolle News. Gerade die neuen Innovatoren bringen wieder neue und andere Ideen in das Geschehen. Wirklich hoch interessant, danke für diesen Beitrag!
I am disappointed that no Spaceballs references were made in this interview...
"Space Balls? Oh sh*t. There goes the planet."🧐🐵
Believe me, there is, and will be, a lot of SpaceBalls references within the company. Naming the first space station "SpaceBall One" is a certainty.
I came for the soccer balls in orbit.
I love the NIAC interviews, by far my favorite interviews. I love science but speculative science just pushes my brain in ways the already known does not. Helps me look towards the future and I love it.
Its funny because i just bought a laser cleaner/welder for my shop and my nephew asked about electron beam welding and why i didnt get one of those machines😅. Aside from not having a giant mountain of money to pay for an electron beam welder, and to function they require a vacuum around the work piece. And as i say this i can see the wheels turning in his head and he says "well wouldnt that system work in space then?" So i thought for a srcond and came to "yeah it probably would". Anda little more thought and itd probably be the best bet because you dont want a bunch of white hot blobs of metal beads shooting off at your space suit and popping holes in it or melting and sticking to your face plate. I remember when reading book 4 of the expanse, one of the characters is a 0-g vacuum welder. During the part where he welds something up in orbit, the authors mention a hot spark sticking to his face shield. That always struck me as what the hell kind of welder would you use out there? Hell ive been welding for years and every once in a while ill catch a hot one either getting on to my shield or itll find its way down my shirt or like the one time i decided to fire up ye old mig welder while wearing flip flops and one of these little incandescent bastards landed right in the middle of my big toe. And here on the ground an incident like that is at worst a little pain and a lot of irritation, but up in the vacuum those little sparks can be lethal
What an interesting interview, thanks Fraser. I love this concept of building things in space instead of having to launch completed structures. Ya know, when he was showing some of the sample electron beam welds they look exactly like TIG welds. Add in a second tool to add filler along with the weld tool and you have a fully complete welding system, capable of additive manufacturing.
wow this was really awesome! i can imagine a connected ring of these "orbs" spinning, with a center orb where the docks can take place. it would have zero gravity in the center. maybe a gigantic "bearring" that can hold the pressure while still allowing a sort of spin while docked? or even slow down the spin of the structure while something is docking.
The bearing can be behind airlock doors. When nothing is moving through the bearing, the bearing can be kept in a vacuum. The bearing can be pressurized and the airlock doors opened when moving stuff through the bearing. This would make leaks in the bearings more acceptable.
I think an extra non-pressurized mechanism can work better:
A docking table at the pole, that spins opposite to the station to appear non rotating to the incoming ships.
That makes the docking easier,
after the docking table holds a ship, it starts rotating the ship to match the station
Then the ship can connect to the final pressurized mechanism.
To undock, you disconnect the pressurized mechanism,
and then use the docking table to stop the ship rotation before it is released
@@JacintoFranca interesting
I was just talking with a friend of mine, today, that worked as a certified, pipe welder and other qualifications, about welding in outer space. I asked him if he thought an inert gas like Argon would even be necessary in a "vacuum," since flux or inert gases were necessary to protect the weld from contamination from "air." He thought maybe an arc couldn't form in a vacuum. I said I thought air was not necessary to form an arc...that the electricity would complete the circuit, if the distance was close enough. Odd that I ran into this video on the same day.
@@jameswest4819 Well, I don't think that a flow of freed electrons is considered an arc, but... here is my take on "can you make an electric arc in vacuum" question:
In theoretical perfect vacuum with infinite atom removal capability? No arc can happen.
But, there is never a perfect vacuum, and also when there is a large enough electrical potential, the ions from the conductors will start to free up, eventually enabling an arc. One a small arc happens, a lot energy and material is released from the conductors, creating even better conditions for a sustained arc. Does it help with arc welding? Not unless you want to consume your cartode and anode in the process
@@vholub1 If you have ever welded anything, with, for example, low hydrogen rods, you have to drag or push the rod along the intended path on the metal being welded. There is an arc that forms and the rod and its flux melts and heats up the target being welded. I do not think your analogy about consuming the cathode and anode is correct. Just how close or far the arc is formed is not something I've heard or read about.
Continuing a conversation from Fraser's last NIAC interview.
Can't you just imagine this station, the example that can open, receiving a small Rubble Pile from an Asteroid Return Vessel? Something the size of a small car. Apart from the obvious science opportunities, a partner company like Space Forge could experiment and develop resource extraction, refinement, and in space construction.
We're on our way folks. 🥳🎉😄
Good Idea... A few decades down the line, find a nickle iron asteroid, cut out a ten tonne block, melt it with focused mirrors, spin up a block for more even heating. When melted, Inject super heated steam to the core and inflate it to an oblate sphere. Pull out the tungsten tubes as it cools and you have initial entry ports at the poles. Walla! An inflatable metal habitat, walls as thick as you please.
Yep 👍, glad to see I’m not the only one thinking of that. I’ve always thought of it as glass blowing technique at the mega scale using metal, and implementing similar techniques as glass blowers.
@@YellowRambler It's already been examined, about 15 years ago.
The whole notion assumes a purity in the asteroid metal that just doesn't exist.
Were anybody to actually try this, the whole thing would just fly apart into molten gobbets.
Better to mine it, smelt all the metals, and then build O'Neill Cylinder Habitats inserted into the cavities left by the mining, expanded as needed.
That way, you have plenty of radiation shielding and lots of raw materials available for your community of tens of thousands inside the comfortable cylinders.
The servicing vehicle is such an evocative idea
I know I'm not the first to say "Torus!!!" But I would add- if you're making ring sections that you weld together, they could start out on a roll- the whole piece, varying in width as you go around, rolled up.... unroll, weld the end, and you've got a ring... repeat for each ring, weld the edges together, then boom you've got a torus.
Not sure if aluminum, or steel, whatever... if you don't exceed it's elasticity it would be a bit like a big spring, you don't have to bend/form it. Or maybe it's just straight when unrolled, you pull the ends together and weld them? It's easy to see this scaling to truly huge dimensions. :)
This is probably my favorite video from this channel. I've been waiting soooo long for an explanation for plausible ways to create GENUINE large-scale(don't wanna say megastructures cuz I don't want people to come for me in the comments😅) structures in orbit😁👏🏾
Nothing more can be said about how far we've lost our way in space in that we've never tried to weld in space before!
Remember that to spin slow enough to avoid motion sickness the tether ends up about 500 meters.
Great interview, Fraser. I love Dr. Holub's enthusiasm and vision !!!🎉
This is truly: Awesome
2000m³ is the volume that a 1000m² (10k ft²) building has. That's between 4 and 5 average US single family homes. And that's the smallest size (single launch of New Glenn). It would accommodate between 20 people (with the same living space as we have on earth) and 100 people (submarine style).
With 20 or 100 people, the "furniture" and interior structures in the sphere become the limiting factor to how many launches you actually need per volume. If you can build an empty shell in 1 launch but then have to send 4 more to get the equipment in, then why wouldn't you dock 5 separately launched modules together? That is, unless you actually need space that's mostly empty, say for growing plants or assembling/ disassembling spacecraft.
Something like a pull starter on small engines to dock with, it is static while a ship is docking or leaving, and arms extended out to reingage to aline with passages to outer ring
Never really thought about it. Pretty sure an inert gas shield wouldn't be needed in the vacuum of space to weld aluminum. Thats cool.
Fun fact the central spar of the F-14 that the wings pivoted on was an electron beam welded titanium part.
Yes, in 1970's!
How would a space station using artificial rotational gravity account for mass moving throughout the station? i.e. as mass moves toward the center, the spin should accelerate, and as it moves to the outer edges it would slow down.
It would have to have a really strong reaction control system, that’s for sure. One option is to keep most mass in the ring stable, mostly furniture and permanent systems.
@Zacharysharkhazard I was thinking the same thing. And with advanced enough sensors to track the movement of mass maybe a counter weight system could be used. No matter what it seems like it would be a huge power draw to manage.
@@samo1372any station with a feasible (100m+ diameter) gravity ring would require either a sizable nuclear fission reactor or a very massive solar array to keep the thing powered, probably in the megawatts of power generation. Feasible once we start launching nuclear reactors into space, and reusable superheavy launchers come online.
When you started discussing artificial gravity, it brought up some images of the Phoenix ship in For All Mankind in season 3, previously the Polaris Orbital Hotel, which it self was based on the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey.
Thank you for sharing!
Space welding Geodesic dome habitats sounds like an interesting career path.
I'm also interested in the concept of using wood for an "ablative" sheild for future space stations.
The next space station really does need to be using artificial gravity, micro/zero G does seem pretty bad for your health.
Geodesic domes are good, but smooth spheres give you even more volume enclosed for any given mass of materials used to make the structure.
OMG! This just made my day!
Love this concept, thanks for the interview Fraser!
The Little Balls origin theory 😂. In all seriousness, I really enjoyed this interview. This is exciting stuff!
I believe Infallible is way to go with multiple lairs of infallible inside enforcing and insulating with electrical with final lairs.
What if, for hull construction, you used square panels with disconnecting servo motors allowing you to make an adjustable structure geometrically? It could be adjusted to allow for access to any areas scheduled for work. It wouldn’t be pressurized.
When they figure out space forging its gonna make some out of this world strong steel
Wow!
Absolutely mind blowing concepts there. it’s amazing how far you need to extend reality possibilities to get NASA’s attention.
Hopefully Jared Issacman makes this more streamlined a process.
The future (well beyond my 59 years) looks like all those science fiction novels & movies from the previous 200 years will come into fruition.
Wish I was a ‘highlander’ & could witness it all!
One thing I would be interested in is how dirty the process is. Does this welding generate orbital debris that is minor and likely to deorbit quickly or is it a bigger problem so the work has to be done inside some sort of bubble to contain things.
Just a very small amount of metal vapor, that is all.
I'm thinking spherical space stations whose outsides hold the air in (and have airlocks & docking ports) but don't spin. Then 2 or more "ring decks" could spin inside it (on the same axis) in opposite directions to provide spin-gravity while preserving net zero rotational inertia. The hardest part is distributing the weight so you don't trash the bearings or wobble like an out-of-balance clothes dryer.
Well, that and moving from one deck to the other without getting squished.
You'd be constantly spending a lot of energy to overcome air friction and turbulence, trying to spin your counter rotating gravity rings inside a pressurized volume.
We mine Luna to build prefab components, and mass-driver them into orbit, at which point they're assembled at the spacedocks into very large structures indeed.
It has to be able to have a Cobra MK III dock into it ! 😁
With that name, he was destined to build Void(space) Tech. The name of the station should be Voidtech Whole hub. 😂
Kidding aside, great news, looking forward for these to become real.
Space manufacturing will become the new Green.
Space will allow us to create materials which are purer then we can create here on Earth.
Space manufacturing can also help lower carbon emissions here on our planet.
Less land used for manufacturing means more land for people and agriculture.
24:33 I guess small crafts could dock with a (nondestructive) harpune tether that emulates longer range cable elasticity by a backdrivable motor on the cable roll, that to avoid damaging jerks.
So I'd challenge the statement that "it is impossible to dock with such a spacecraft" on the outer edge of a rotating structure.
@ they do have the technology built into spacesuits for the joints like elbow and knee that allow bending/pivoting and movement...i dont know if im agreeing with you or not to be honest lol, either way love to hear other peoples input and ideas.
We have no idea what level of reduced gravity is required to preserve human health. We've wasted 60 years floundering around in LEO without ever testing for the effects of lowered gravity, like maybe the Moon, or Mars, to gather actual data about this subject. We have a pretty good idea what "micro" gravity does but that's not really of much value when we are thinking about a Moon base or Mars base. "micro" gravity only applies during the travel time while local gravity will be experienced for much longer on an extra terrestrial base.
The problem with welding in space is it is harder to cool an object than it is to heat an object. But at the wattage you are using maybe there is less problem.
Do solar panels and radiators first
That is absolutely correct, but the welding needs only about 2kW of power with speed of over 10 mm/sec, which would make the large welded metal barely change is temperature.
Friction stir welding might be an option.
It is doable, but due to the forces required it needs very strong fixturing before welding. Also, you are left with entry and exit holes after weld is done. Not ideal for pressure vessels.
Homeworld 3 was a bit of a let down but Homeworld 4 is going to be next level.
Thank you, this is a very interesting topic, I am looking forward to seeing what happens with Think Orbital.
Teslas' Artemis makes large scale assembly in orbit much more practical. We don't need Artemis to work autonomously; tele-operation from the ground is better than having astronauts doing space walks because Artemis's hands are much more suited to handling tools. The gloves on a space suit make it nearly impossible to do simple things like putting a screw in a hole.
Weld done!
16:02 3.0mm to 4.8mm thickness of pressure shell - mostly for micrometeorite protection not for the pressure. That's would neen just one mm (with how much safety factor left though?).
The movie The Martian had a good idea of artificial gravity. They had module attached to a ring. This is a good idea because you could start small an get bigger to the limit if the design
I feel like there is a better way to build this..
put a wire bending machine in orbit, and set it producing ngon rings of large diameter, tie those together to make a gigantic geodesic sphere.
then lightly inflate a balloon inside of the geodesic sphere using an inert gas for welding, like 0.001 psi or something.
to get stuff in and out, either use a docking ring and plate or just accept the loss of a few kilograms of gas and poke a hole in it, or pump it down into a tank then poke a hole.
do all your fabrication in the low pressure atmosphere, use the inert atmosphere with a compressor to do conventional inert gas welding.
nice thing is you can contain all your debris, there is no vacuum welding phenomenon, and you can use a reflective interior and have 3d positioning tags all over the inside for machine vision.
I am not sure how you would handle thermal regulation, maybe a glorified mini split heat exchanger plumbed to several sides of the structure?
As for dealing with particulates, if you spin it up a little, centripetal force should deal with it, static charge might make a levitated oxide layer though near the walls.
Love me some Universe Today
If the shield water is frozen then it would leak at a low rate to give the crew time to repair any damage.
Hey Fraser, you briefly touched on the 'cold fusing' of metals in space. Could this process also take place between small grains during early solar system formation? As I understand it there is a gap in our knowledge about early planet formation, basically how did smaller pieces stay together. Something to think about for your Q&A. Oh, while I'm here, another question for your show. Do objects in LEO, which experience atmospheric drag also cause wake vortices in atmosphere that thin?
So... welding in space. And if SpaceX Spaceship ever becomes fully reusable and brings launch cost down, you could bring up 8 meter wide ring segments and use a robotic arm and a welding robot to join them into an orbital torus structure. Send up a bunch of combined Whipple shield and polymer composite radiation shielding in panel form to bolt to the outside of the torus, and suddenly, you have more living space in orbit than we could use in decades, spin it and you could potentially live there for years. Connect the torus to a central non rotating in space assembly plant/dock, and you suddenly have the first version of Earth Spacedock.
That is exactly the plan! 8 meter max dimension segments for Starship and two 6 meter robotic arms with welding tool attachment. First though we have to do our homework to convince investors that we can do this, through the boring stuff like products and revenue...
Sounds like a good idea but we should think about the ecology of our planet. A space dock is an excellent idea but what would it take to launch enough material to do it.
lets build giant dome in earths orbit with jungle inside it !!! lets go you can always add engines on it afterwards
Imagine if space were filled with breathable air how might this have transformed human civilization, from interstellar travel to our understanding of the cosmos, and would we already be sailing the stars or facing entirely new cosmic challenges?
It would be a lot worse, because the friction would slow down all spacecraft. They would have to thrust constantly to keep moving, which would require huge amounts of fuel. Putting something in orbit would be hugely expensive.
And the Earth would stop orbiting and would fall into the Sun!
@@vholub1 Excellent point, or if the air was like a light switch in space, earth would probably turn into a fireball right? Going at almost 70k miles per hour around the sun.
start farming those near-earth asteroids for materials, we gotta get orbital manufacturing going in a big way
Dry dock in LEO is a terrible idea. You need a full foundry where the material is available. Lunar surface, an asteroid, etc.
I did not understand the problems involved in producing a torus for spin gravity. What are the issues involved in switching to torus structure?
Also, are aluminum extrusions, perhaps with embedded carbon fiber reinforcement, shipped in rolls a suitable method to apply as over wrap improve hoop strength on large spheres?
Hy Fraser,
I was wondering if anybody is thinking about building a hydrogen-gas station in an orbit around earth? I’m thinking about using electrolysis to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. Once built the station could use sunlight to split the water and use a little bit of that hydrogen and oxygen to cool the hydrogen gas and some of the hydrogen and oxygen could be used to create electricity, water and heat if the station is manned. If there is enough on board then the water could even be used as a radiation shield. And any waste water could be recycled back into the system. This would reduce launch costs a lot I think because the rocket would only need to carry the fuel needed to escape the atmosphere and not any fuel needed later on in the spacecrafts mission. That spacecraft to fuel up at the gas station for the next phase of its mission for instance to get to the moon where they are planning all this industry and science to take place.
The initial costs might be big, but once in operation you could create a nearly closed loop energy system on that system using the hydrogen and oxygen it’s producing anyway. Any spacecraft that comes along to refuel, brings water from earth with it to replenish the fuel it took from the station. It only needs to bring regular water which is much denser and you really don’t need that much water to produce enough hydrogen and oxygen.
Not only that but if you man the station it could double as a “pitstop” for orbiting satellites for all kinds of maintenance. This would reduce the need for new satellites as the once that are already up there could live and be productive much longer. So that would help reduce the amount of space debris aswell.
So it would be like a service station for cars, but then spacecrafts. I know the ISS is already there, but that's a science mission. This would be an actual practical service station.
First thing i thought when I saw the plans for the ISS. Why don't they send panels instead of whole sealed modules? An octagon where each wedge is the size maybe 40% of a module. Sure you could do the welding thing, I was thinking more of some kind of a hook joint, Japanese woodworking uses many different designs. Figure if there's always a vacuum, it'll always be pulling them together. No need to weld them everywhere.
ISS should be studied inside a pressurized module,for things like dents and damage.
Can they make those panels to be modular heatshields?
Zajímavé poslouchání
Diky!
Welding in space and even metal foundries would be more efficient and less pollution than here on earth. The major concern in wielding is shielding gas to keep air out of the melted metal if you don't the air that we breath will cause porosity and week weld. With the proposed cost per KG to orbit with Starship could cut the cost of Titanium refining by 50% or more and increase the safety 100-fold. Wielding Titanium in space in a vacuum is just as easy as wield common steal on earth and could be done with a mig wielder without the need of shielding gas or wire fed laser wielder. It could be done with old school stick wielder with uncoated wielding rods for any metal. Orbital assembly and manufacturing are the next industrial revolution, the possibilities of new metal alloys are endless.
I imagine a lot of thought would have to go into water shields. Too much weight for outer walls would put a lot more stress on structure. May need zones or some algorithm for placement? Not an engineer.
In a not- too distant future, next Sunday AD…. - wow so they are actually building the Satellite of love 🤖❤
A sphere is the most efficient shape for volume, but it isn’t efficient for human use volume. A sphere isn’t a very efficient shape to be supported to a structure.
A cylinder is easier to be supported and for some layouts can be very efficient for human use volume. Ideally I would spin a volume even if you are only creating a microgravity of acceleration for items inside the cylinder.
❤ ❤❤ Thank you, Soon I will rule the galaxy once more with my fully operational Death Star .
Can we have a handheld one? Those were good welds.
I wonder if friction or induction impact welding could work in space.
How have we been in space this long and _no one_ has even attempt this yet?.. wtf... 🍻
Space mega-telescopes, when?
an interview about NIAC future space grade tech ? where do I sign ?
Looks great! Can those spheres be floated in Venus atmosphere? And won't nuts-and-bolts / rivets provide for better sealing / maintainability vs. welding?
is this vegas orb but bigger?
Does a Super Heavy booster have the power to put into orbit a Starship that would have 2 times smaller tanks, no head tank, no heat tiles, no ailerons/flaps, and that would be about 40% lighter? If so, then this Starship could be transformed into a space station. The space gained would offer ~1,500 m² of pressurized volume, or 50% more than the International Space Station.
International Space Station cost: ~$150B
SpaceX Starship Space Station cost: ~$2B (1.5x volume)
Once in orbit, the lower half of the Starship, which contains the engines and tanks, could separate and burn up in the atmosphere. The upper part could be equipped with Draco or Super Draco engines positioned in such a way as to allow the movement of the "ISS Starship" in all directions.
Why go for welding and not for reversible almost 100% strength preserving fir tree joints? Especially when an expensive isogrid is millled then these exta structures won't dive the cust up much relatively. Not? Or is there a much cheaper method than milled isogrids proposed here?
As mentioned in the video: A lot of focus is on not air filled structures and for these there's not even the benefit of not needing a bladder in case of welding rather than tough rebersible means of joining.
I would think that a roll of metal would be more useful than plates, for this purpose.. A roll of metal can be welded into any shape, with a little trimming, as can a plate, but a roll offers less welding as you need only weld the two faces. You could use one roll for the exterior and build a cylinder, while using a smaller roll for interior walls, partitions, decks and such and can cut plates from it as needed. Like building a ship on land, you will need to cut holes for access for wiring, piping, machinery to be dropped in, and such, but, in space, all the interior could be built and then the exterior added, wrapped around the interior. We will have to think in different ways to get this job done in such a different environment!
Wojciech, co oni zrobili z Twoim imieniem 😂.
Space Balls/ The Electric Welder
I can see a hybrid assembled(welded) structure with an inflated inner pressurized sphere for living quarters 💪😁, both demonstrated and possible now!
the xray use is obviously for checking out other satellites with x37b or other.
Do you consider all of what is sent to space reusable resources
I agree. Make as much as possible of the spacecraft able to be reused as raw material as long as the fuel impulse can push the mass to reach orbit.
Space soccer ⚽️ ball.
"Awesome! Totally Awesome!!!"
-Jeff Spicoli
Just sent a 3D printer
I think we're getting ahead of ourselves. Shouldn't we be looking at a space foundry before a space dock?
Excellent interview, but he was not exactly making sure he was answering the question. You persisted nicely. Too bad he evaded the cold welding question, which was well asked.
Dr Vojtech Holhub . This man must be coming from the future, when they name children with technologic words.
Haha! Either that, or very western Slavic names. Definitely the former though :)
@vholub1 like Robot, robot. It's amazing how many modern science fiction words come from West Slavic literature
What about stainless steel?
Doable, but less strength to mass ratio than aluminum, and the thinner steel would make for more stringent tolerances. The reason Starship uses Stainless steel are only its thermal properties and high melting point. That is mostly relevant only for a reusable rocket.
cannot wait for more advance 3D Space Printing !!!!
So you're going to build a Death Star.
I mean soccer ball....
5:05
Why wouldn't Magnetic Induction Welding work?
This method will be very useful for storage tanks but why wield it? Wouldn't cold wield + pressure locking it be enough? Most of the space stations are just bolted in no?
Do the initial assembly, put minimum pressure in it to find out leaks/failure points then ship the insulation fabric+plumbing and electrical. Rinse and repeat.😂
Spaceyard, surely? Not a spacedock. Cool though.
On sea they have a dry dock, this could be an air dock.
Pedant
Why not just build a huge cube let's complicated and easier to build a dock and door. Build whatever you need to build inside the cube, roll up the huge door and outcomes star destroyer or something smaller. Don't really need to look cool just need to be functional to start. And easier to repair😂