Training versus pruning: Stefan's course is really worth the price if you want to learn the techniques! He has some little known methods to reduce pruning time, by choosing the moves that really make a difference, that trick the tree into working for you.
I had only 19 fruit trees when we bought the house, but only 3 of them produced anything. Watching Stefan's video and listening to him and we have added more trees to increase diversity and all of our trees produce and taste much better. (Yes, they tasted boring when they first started producing again.) Now I am applying these same permaculture principles to rose and flower garden beds around my fruit trees...tiny scale, but everything is so much better...blessings abound when you make things the way God intended.
When I first planted our fruit trees we didn't find any worms. Our soil was not living. 2 years in I now have some nice big fat worms out there. There is so much to learn .... orchards are different than veggie gardens!!!! But we are enjoying learning and are grateful for your sharing of info!
RE: Greenhouse add-on. I often think that calling something a sunporch or solarium or passive solar room or enclosed patio, instead of a greenhouse, gets past city/county planners faster. Anything that gives the impression of luxury living or sustainable living (only if that is the "in thing) versus food or plant production often gets approved. Yes, it shouldn't be that way, but keeping property values up often gets ahead of reality.
Super great teachers; thank you! I’m in my late 60’s & started permaculture growing in my urban yard over 3 years ago & still learning, thanks to Stephan’s UA-cam videos. I’m so grateful🤗❤️
I appreciate getting this shot of enthusiasm to press on. Covid transplant from urban west coast to rural zone 5 and giant learning curves what works and what doesn’t to regenerate a piece of land. Thank you for valuable share!!
I’m going to start a permaculture this year clean slate. It was 20 acres of corn soybean rotation for years so I planted some cover crops last fall on 6 acres or so. This spring I’m putting in 5 wire high tensile fence around the 20 acres because I have livestock that I MOB graze like Greg Judy. I have sheep, cattle, goats, donkey all broke to single wire poly braid. I’m working on one section at a time. I already started 2 acres of silvopasture and another 3 acres of lawn which was all Mob grazing. I’m watching you and Mark Shepard since he lives a few hours away from where I live. This winter is all about planning and develop on what I want to do this coming spring. The other 14 acres have a about an acre of wind breaks and waterways which is all on the south side of a hill. Thanks again for all your videos!
Sounds fantastic. Just keep the animals away from trees for a few years until the can walk under them. Always keep goats away from your trees with electric fence. Be warned.
I just wanted to take a second and thank you for all the encouragement. I planted my first two trios this winter, adapting many of your principles to our site (central GA, USA, zone 8).
@@katastrofikRQ I went with mulberry as my nitrogen fixers, then apple and olive as my fruit. I have black mulberry, Anna apple, abr??? Olive(sorry cant remember and paper works at home), red mulberry, golden dorsett apple, kalamata olive, (I added a peach and mimosa(nitrogen) and am getting pear for a third. I am using hazelnut, blackberry and elderberry as my shrubs. I am working my orchard into my horse and cow pasture, so my perennial layer is more forage crop based with white clover, Bermuda grass, some grazing turnip, etc (that is a work in progress)
The Lord bless you and your family. Your teachings here have been so helpful as I look to plant and to develop some acres. Je vous remercie, M. Sobkowiak.
Thank you so much for the generous sharing you do of your work. I've had the honour of working with Dr. Bob Bors at the University of Saskatchewan 💓 Thought I was going to build a Haskap Orchard. But the land I bought is over grazed by cows. Until that changes, in the meantime, I discovered your Trio's... Yes!!! So last summer I and several helpers dug and dug in the blazing sun. But instead of a flat piece of land I decided to make Trio "pods" in some south facing knoll of recently cut white and black poplar. There's very little soil so instead of cultivating and opening it all up I just dug large holes for established fruit trees, shrubs and perennials. Why large holes, well the now exposed soil is a place for more plants and the natural underbrush remains largely intact. Created pods based on the natural contours of the land. Got a huge amount of snow this winter. So excited to see what next spring will offer. I live in the glacial poop highlands of Saskatchewan. Lol
Thank you so much for this presentation! Have had a copy of The Permaculture Orchard for a while. Great video. I've been working on my two small test orchards for years and have learned a lot. Started my permaculture orchard last year and will be following the idea of finishing the 4 phases in small plots; seems to make sense. Will also be putting good effort into making and using my own nursery set up. I just love the constant learning, improvising, failing, overcoming, and doing it again. I agree that doing it on a budget is making me learn and put in the effort. I have a bunch of old growth lumber I want to use for extending my deck to the south side of the house with the purpose of building in a attached greenhouse. That would be cool. You cover so much info, I can't thank you enough for all the things I have learned from you and put in to use! Feeding birds by hand is awesome!
We had our woodland logged this winter (since a lot of neighboring land were logged the year prior, there was no longer any wind break and it was getting dangerous) I intend to replant a part as a food forest, while using natives for the spots lacking regrowth This will definitly help the food forest section ❤
Thank you for taking your time to share with us your experience and knowledge. I love the idea of having an attached greenhouse, but for houses in urban area I wish each house has a rooftop greenhouse. It'd help the grocery cost, heating cost. Besides, fresh vegies in the house are more available, and that saves part of transportation cost too.
Thanks for the name drop for the podcast Stefan. Interviews with the Verge team are always gold! I'm coordinating with Rob right now for another one to start off the new season
@@StefanSobkowiak I would love to get you on this new season. I've finally got a property here in Spain and your work has been a big inspiration to the agroforestry and orchard design I'm making. This first year I'm starting with a Permaculture nursery and the space will eventually be an education hub. Maybe I can entice you over one day to teach a workshop with me?
Thank you Stefan. I learned a great deal from you and your Video which I purchased on your site as well as your You Tube channel. I started my food forest in 2020 and I am amazed. I am hooked big time.
Love this and love Verge permaculture. BTW, we have a 3 season greenhouse off our front door. It's not permanent, it's based off the low tunnel idea, but bending the frame to reach from the ground to our (1st floor) eaves. And using a double layer of plastic as the walls. No checking with our building code because we didn't structurally change anything (we are also rural residential, not ag, not suburban). We have some local rules, but we work around them. I have 1 hot compost (use the heat for the greenhouse and also to start seed on top of) and 1 raised bed and 1 workbench within the space. We have a video series on this build. We keep evolving it, but it definitely helps us extend our seasons significantly here in SW Michigan.
Greetings from Germany🌱. Thanks for sharing this. Ist was very inspiring and I‘ve learned a lot from this Talk and from your UA-cam Channel. You are a big inspiration for what’s possible when you‘re put your mind on something and be persistant. At the same time treating mother nature mindful and with repect . Awesome🙏🍎🍏🍐
I have been watching your videos and growing food on my property for the last couple years. Stephan I find you such an inspiration to expand and make the most of my acre. Unfortunately mostly I am overgrown with spruce and alders but I clear and plant back edible plants as I am able. Love to hear a fellow Canadian, cheers from Nova Scotia ❤️
I feel like David the Good’s new book called Grocery Row Gardening would be a great supplement to your principles on establishing a permaculture orchard. Thank you for your work! Have a long term plan to have exactly what you describe. God’s blessings!
Dang right! David has a few good books. His Grocery Row Gardening and Compost Everything are two of my favorites! I believe more people should read his books.
David the Good has some very bad advice. He says he doesn't believe in no-till. Ask any soil biologist in the world about the damages that tilling can do. Ask Dr. Ingham. It's not a debate. I am not a big dogma guy but if don't believe in this very real scientific fact how can you give gardening advice to others? The real focus should be on figuring out the best way to move forward with different no-till practices. I mean we're all screwed anyways but you can't pick and choose when to follow peer reviewed science.
@@jackturner4917 Dr. Ingham has made some really great contributions to soil biology science. However, she is not the only voice on the topic. How about John Kempf, for example, who has years of experience and has worked with hundreds of large scale growers; and Don Huber who is also a reputable soil scientist? Maybe David is listening to them? Of course they don't recommend excessive tillage, but they have science to prove that judicious use of tillage is not always bad in every way.
@@bountywoodsfarm8594 JADAM method is worth looking at too! Much more simple and contradicts much of what Dr. Ingham promotes, but has amazing results despite this fact.
I have only a garden with fruit trees and tried to plan to design the mini-orchard to produce fruits in batches over an extended period of time and found it very frustrating. For some reason I couldn't find trees characteristics gathered all in one place. I even wanted to put it on the internet myself (in Polish) but couldn't bother starting a website for this reason. Anyway I'm totally in love with the idea of building permaculture and thank you very much for sharing your knowledge which is not readily available in my country
We’ve learned so much from your channel- thanks for sharing your knowledge and keeping it simple and practical. The visuals are really helpful! I couldn’t agree more with the abundance comments- you WILL have so much you’ll have to share!
The book Stefan recommended in the video for training fruit trees: Growing Fruit Trees: Novel Concepts and Practices for Successful Care and Management -- - Jean-Marie Lespinasse (Editor), Evelyne Leterme (Editor)
I love how Stefan said "first" in a thick French accent after presenting this book, probably, because he was still thinking in French after trying to translate its name.
Channel "Fully Raw Kristina" before planting her trees on her new property in Hawaii. She planted peanut to put minerals back into the soil. The before and after photos you could see a huge difference. So lush and green, beautiful.
The Rabbit Roller is whimsical enough to reach an audience outside those who seek out permaculture videos. Sic someone on it's perfection. (and I'll admit, it looks useful in my context.)
I'm thinking a bicycle pedal shaft could be attached with it's bearings at the center of the two ends. The crank hanging down on the inside would provide the support to the hanging hutch structure. Do you remember the original diameter? It looked like it worked reasonably well.
There really should be a website that pulls all permaculture knowledge into 1. Where you can pick where you're at, and everyone that does permaculture around you gives their experience. Like, how did he know which plants would be ready which week? There's just so much info that he learned that others have already learned, which is good, but I think it holds the whole community back. Rather than learning and growing as a community everyone learns the same things over and over, and they sell their knowledge which also holds back the community as a whole because still it's only their own knowledge.
On that note I'm going out to take some strawberry cuttings and pot them up. Did one the other day to see how it would go, if I was too early being mid March in zone 5. The surecrop variety took 3 days to send up a crown. These plants are begging to grow so I will give them what they want and be expanding my patch as well as hopefully selling some as well. Great video per usual, thanks friend.
Just call it a “solarium”- then attach it as an extension to the southern side…make sure it is pretty. Greenhouses are not allowed? Change the name and the style-you’ll be good to go; call it a porch…an extended entry…a mud-room… 😊
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. I've been binge watching your videos, ordered your documentary. We are in BC in zone 3/4 on 140 acres. We've been trying to get apples established for 20 years. Just as they begin to be productive the voles girdle them. I appreciated your teaching on voles. After watching several of your videos, we are going to change our plans in how we were going to set up the trees. Thanks for being so generous with your teaching.
I have learned so very much from you in the past two years... Only wish I'd had that knowledge forty years ago. If you're ambitious, I believe there is a need for two books. One on the identification of WEEDS at various stages of growth, their habits and indications. The other is a GOOD book on insect identification as it applies to gardens and orchards. Again, at various stages of growth and control measures. Or perhaps they exist and I'm in my normal state of cluelessness. 😊 Much love.
Quick, cheap or good: my son heard a weight trainer speak about those in regards to food. The guy said you could only pick any 2 of the 3. So it can be quick & good (expensive), cheap & good (time consuming), or quick & cheap (unhealthy). Interesting to hear you use the same concepts with the orchard.
Hello from PEI. Food selection and quantiy are not present, so we have created an orchard, flower and fruit veggie garden. I'm passing info to my grandboys. Thanks for sharing your info.
In my experience the hardest thing to understand when starting out is the wholistic concept of the planting, as Stefan learned: figuring out your Permaculture guilds and putting them in together. That plus mulch plus amendments and planting depth in view of your soil type. Just a PDC is not enough.
Great to see another of your videos Stefan. Must remember to do all 4 phases at a time! I'm curious how do you mark / record location of your tress so you know what variety they are? I don't recall that in any of your other videos. I'm early learning, so don't expect that I will just be able to look at a tree and know what it is, especially a particular variety of apple for example. God Bless!
I recorded a planting plan when planting, we grew the trees in our nursery and they were known (mostly). I have the planting plan in a spreadsheet, it’s a pretty good way to keep a record, especially if planted in rows at set spacing.
No plans yet for rabbit roller. Place hazelnut seed in soil in fall and cover with wire mesh to keep out critters. They will start popping out in spring.
Our farm is a no till small farm with high production vegetable farming an focus on reganative ag an soil health and expanding into vermiculture. Looking to expand into berries, vine, an trees. We are 3 acres an looking to purchase the 4 acres next to us that is just green grass thats never been sprayed. bought our first commercial green house 40+100 ft from another nursery will be purchasing the other ones.. Thank you for sharing and we just want to help others access good food for a fair price..
Fantastic. 3 acres is a serious commitment, especially vegetables. With 7 acres better have some great help. Key is to add crops that don't add to your peak work times already, try to add some that smooth out work load.
@@StefanSobkowiak Thank you for the wisdom and we will look further into that type of transition. We specialize in greens an other root vegetables.. yes help is key and will be trading veggies for help. Your information is Paramount an thank you again.
Dear Stefan, I would like to thank you for saving my health. Doctors found out I had been sufering from quasi psoriasis (sort of autoimmuned disease). There was no medicine to heal it. 3-4 years ago I realized the disease is caused by any eaten milk products (milk, cream, cheese, other product containing milk like eg chocolate). So I dodn not eat all those things. After 10 year I watched your video about bactirias / microbiom cooperating with roots. Then you told human beeing has got it (baterias, microbiom) in his guts. I experienced to be enlightened. Years before I destroyed my microbiom, which could not regenerate. I purchased special mix of probiotics. Additionally stopped drinking caffee (huge quantities are not good for my digestion). In fact I had already stopped drinking caffee a few times before, but no influence for soriasis dissease. -After 7-8 weeks I could eat again all milk products again. Thanks you and my gardening interests I have been healed. Thank You very much x 1.000. Best wishes from Poland.
Hopefully didn't miss the answer in the video, but can you grow fruit trees in a large pot that can be moved around ? Long story short: We bought trees, Not sure where to put them now that we are starting to learn lots of things from your channel. And we are also in the midst of finding another piece of land we may turn into a food forest. Just didn't know if we could keep them "portable" in large pots for a while until we are able to decide where to put them.
Stefan, I LOVE all your videos! I have learned so much! I have so many comments and questions, but let me start with one. What would be a good source for whey for a small orchard with 2 to 4 trios? Not many dairies around here anymore. Can I buy and reconstitute whey powder from the grocery store? My grandfather had a fruit farm on Lake Michigan 100 years ago, but I can't grow fruit trees to save my life! Apples grow wild (like weeds) on my property, but the ones I plant don't survive. Most discouraging!
I would take a look WHERE exactly the wild ones are growing, seems like the planted ones may not be in the same conditions. If that’s not the issue try moving a bucket of soil from under a wild one to under your planted one (may be lacking mycorrhiza.
Regarding your efforts to get a greenhouse attached to your home. Ask your municipality if you can add an enclosed porch to your house. They may not care about how your porch is constructed (i.e. with a clear roof and huge windows) and they certainly have little to say about how you use your porch. Sometimes it's how you ask the question ;)
Hello Stephan! This summit last spring and in particular, this hour, with you and your orchard, has sent me down an exciting rabbit hole of learning! Your You Tube videos contain such great info in such a digestible way. I recently bought your permaculture orchard video and I am in the planning phase of starting my trios. One question if I might ask. The land where my orchard will be, is considered a transition zone between boreal forest and aspen Parkland. We are an off grid location but have natural springs and plan on using solar for my water needs! Sorry if this is a silly question, I am still wrapping my mind around that nitrogen fixers are not just the beans and peas in my vegetable garden and include trees, but that this must be happening in nature as well. My question is; if I am making my food forest/orchard in a native forest, does my orchard need the same nitrogen fixing needs that orchards would need when building a food forest/orchard from a monoculture, or previously altered landscape? We plan on clearing a small area that has great sun, but currently is wild spruce, poplars, raspberries, saskatoons, wild roses and of course native grasses, plants and fungi. (we have 40 acres of this abundance, so I don't mind taking a sliver for some different fruit trees.) Any guidance would be appreciated!
Angie welcome to the rabbit hole. By removing some of the existing trees you will be altering that area. You have the space just add N fixers. You can use alder, caragana, Seaberry they should grow well in your climate. Certainly use what is already growing, raspberries and Saskatoons. Diversity is key. Have fun.
I heard about how you planned your rows to have synchronized harvest timing in multiple videos at this point, how did that worked out for you in terms of pest management? Easier, harder, no visible impact?
So much better, I would never go back to a monoculture organic orchard. By design it solved our worst problem pests (which I'm now excited to see because I know they will be gone within 3 days, no intervention on my part). We mass trap for the last 2.
I have lots of huge oaks and pines and a few small open areas. I value their carbon sequestration and cooling so I’d feel guilty cutting them down (plus very expensive). Will it be impossible to grow fruit trees among the huge ones if they get enough sun, will competition doom them? So far only one pear in front yard has done ok. Backyard has armilleria killing oaks but cherry does ok. This is coastal acid sand. Thank you wonderful video!
Trees are used to grow with roots intermingled, they even cooperate with nearby trees. Sounds crazy but research since the 90s has proven it time and time again. See the great book ´Mother trees’ by Dr Suzanne Simard.
Yes Stefan, I remember measuring the distance between various species of trees in ecology class. Some are friends, some not. Thank you for your replies!
Fantastic! We will put your suggestions into practice next autumn here in Italy on ten acres. What kind of rootstock do you use for apple trees? For training (not pruning) system do you use m9 or similar? We have clay fertile soil and I'm afraid that mm11 pushes too much...
I started a small food forest in my backyard starting with fruit trees. I now have 2 Pawpaw trees, 2 Pear Trees, 1 Persimmon Tree, 1 Peach Tree, 2 Fig Trees, and 4 American Hazelnut Bushes/Trees. Half of them are now starting to produce. I am now focusing on understory plants. I have 3 Thornless Blackberry bushes and some Honeyberry bushes. I also plan to get a small chicken coop for a few hens. I don't have Apple Trees cause my neighbor already has those. We trade off. Any suggestions on perennials I could add?
I enjoyed watching this video and it inspired me to rewatch your dvd & take notes. Question regarding the concept of pruning: I recently read “Grow A Little Fruit Tree” by Ann Ralph. She encourages homeowners who’d like to grow fruit trees in smaller spaces to prune at summer solstice to retard growth & help keep trees at a manageable (non-ladder) height for picking & managing. I’m wondering if your French training technique could be combined with this method? Could you train the main trunk/chimney to bend down and be the topmost fruiting “branch” at your desired tree height?
You can usually keep a tree to 2/3 of it’s normal height for a given root by bending the top. You can keep it lower with summer pruning, better and easier to just choose a less vigorous rootstock.
Hello Mr. Sobkowiak I have a question and I'm pretty sure this isn't the correct spot, but hoping you might show a little mercy and answer a tree question. I have 7+ yo fruit trees that had a ring of poison spray to remove the grass. The trees make some fruit but drop before they are ready. Should i try to mulch and try to build the soil life or remove the trees and start over. Do you think the trees can be salvaged?
Permaculture is the best way to restore ecosystems while growing food. At Suzy-Farms we practice pure organic permaculture too. Check us out and leave a comment on what we need to improve on.
I have 3 sweet cherry in my fence orchard. Would those bird boxes you shown in another video be a good idea? I can bird net roof my 15 x 14 vinyardwith grapes blueberries and aronia. I want to share some cherries as payment and sharing to my bird friends but not all...
Hi stefan, im a long time follower and fan, and client, not only of that project, but also, and mostly, of you, as a teacher and caracter. Please take this questions/doubts as ones from someone that is a fan, a student, and a manager of a permaculture food forest homestead for a few years now. Somethings seem contraditory and are difficult to understand. 1- about soil: you mention "remineralizing" the soil as something that produced a quick change in the produtivity. But arent soils themselfs minerals? Sandy soils..are mineral soils, right? Ingram ( you refered her) said that herself. Dosent rock dust (in your case basalt?) Takes decades in the soil, with the action of rain, erosion, action of fungus, algea, etc, until the minerals are soluble and usable by plants? You said your self: in sandy soils its very easy to grow almost everything if you just give it enough water ( thats also what i experience and study and what i see in my case and in my area, wich is full of orchards and veggie fiels, both clay and sandy). 2- about the nitrogen fixing trees. Its known that some species fix nitrogen in the roots, and, in the long cycle (years, decades) that nitrogen and carbon from roots and leaves, etc, end up being fertilizer for other plants, specially after you cut them, or they die...but until then, arent they using nitrogen and other minerals and elements, and water, light... so, really competing with the other trees and plants? How much nitrogen and carbon do they really fix and its avaiable to other plants while they are alive and growing (and compared with a hanfull of manure for ex)? What am i missing or wrong here? Are they there because of diversity? Or just because of a ideologic and asthetic reason? Whats the science in this subject aply to your contex? 3- business/money. You said that your orchard was a black hole for money and time for many years. And, as you said, money is essencial in any project and business. Did that change? It changed because of produtivity and costs in the orchard itself, or because marketing and selling strategies, or because you got other incomes from workshops, consulting, youtube, merchandising, etc? As a student praticioner sometimes its difficult to get a complete and real picture of a reality from videos (i bought your videos too), and see whats science, whats personal experience and preferences, whisfull thinking, whats marketing, etc. To be honest, yours is the only comercial "permaculture orchard" thats presented as economicly viable and sustanaible, because none other that i know off can be a example in a comercially/business point of view without other reveneus (youtube, workshops,turism etc)...except maybe the guys in brasil that do "syntropic agroforestry" (ernst gnosh) , wich is kind of similar to what you teach, but they do it in large scale and with much more diversity and intensity... Well, tanks.
Great questions and it’s obvious you’re a student rather than a watcher. 1- rock dust is all about particle size. True rock dust should have I think it’s 80% smaller than 200 mesh. At that size it’s immediately useable or shortly after. In previous experience with basalt dust it’s effects lasted 4 years with one application. Sand doesn’t hold a lot of fertility and since it was conventional before we bought the easily leached minerals were depleted. So we added basalt. 2- I’ve been enjoying Suzanne Simard’s fantastic book about nutrient sharing between trees. There is so much going on and it can begin within hours rather than decades. I trust what I see. Yes we prune them which gives nutrients below ground and in the branches removed. There is far more cooperation than competition, which is an outdated notion. There is a lot of follow up research needed but since there is no money to make by saving money don’t hold your breath for the science to catch up. 3- Yes I now make more income from educational efforts than farm production. Education is more of a passion for me than production, so I focus on it. If someone who loved the production was running our farm it would provide a living or two. We could produce more fruit, eggs, meat and veggies. Yes the early years can be tough with money going out, that’s why I suggest annuals (veggies and meat) in first 3-5 years to offset the expenses. Or establish the orchard while still working at another job. Best success, hope this helps.
@@StefanSobkowiak Tanks for the answers. I do my best to do "typical" permaculture to my self, including use of nitrogen fixing trees, and is going great in small 3 acres scale, homesteading context. Is becomming just a great food forest garden, quite produtive and beautiful, to self enjoy. But this is not comercially viable, and not even a teaching ground. I hoped , at least, it could become inspiring in challenging the conventional pratices i see all around me. But for that i need more then this, i need numbers, science. Field test, comercial numbers, etc. Lets face it, permaculture is very weak in this....Otherwise conventional farmers dont even look at it, and to more amateur newcomers open to new ideias i could be misleading someone into the wrong path...into no sustainable pratices. Im literaly asking for your help here, since you are one of the few with science background and experience in the field in " permaculture orchard". This are questions/doubts that are put to me by family and friends that do "conventional" agriculture, mostly pear and apple orchards, but also landscape gardenners and veggie producers. Many of them with lots of academic degrees and experience in the field on this matters. And they always call me out about the numbers, the science. And then i shut up, because there are no number and clear science in many permaculture pratices. And in veggie prodution we already have many examples of organic farmming with amaizing results that can compete, to a point (usually are much more expensive), but in permaculture orchard/fruit prodution field...its a desert of good examples! I only known your example and the syntropic agroforestry guys in brasil. For a conventional farmer the biggest problems never seems to be on the field, not even with deseases, wheather and labour issues, but rather in dealing with distribution, and risk and margin gains... its the comercial part thats a challenge, because the fields are very produtive. 3. Clear answer. 2. Its a pity there is no science, no numbers, on this, yet. Maybe you could do a series of video trials (at least it would be pop science in small scale) , something like: trios with and without nitrogen fixers... tanks for the suggestion. In english knew only the works of tom wessels, a true forestry master, that point in the same direction you mention. He have wonderfull books on that subject and other relating complex sistems in forestry ( and life). There are good yt videos of him about it too... 1. If basalt rock dust worked so well, so fast and durable, why didnt you repeated? Why nobody in conventional agro use it ( and theres no establish science on it, other than what the sellers say about it) being it so much cheaper then the usual npk blends, which are also mined minerals!? Does a nkp mineral - or, better, pk, because n have diferrent sources other then mineral rock minning - aplication counts as "remineralizing"? Why do you say the soil was depleated when you bought it? Almost 99% of conventional producers fertilize (with npk s, which are mined minerals, like rock dust) , usually even in excess... most conventional agro lands dont get depleated of nutrients, they sometimes get toxic because of many reasons, including excess nutrition! One gardner friend just put this subject like this; rock dust is just a waste product of minning, that is sell mostly for constrution and landscaping, and , with a much bigger profit margin, to organic agro producers, mostly home growers, that dont ask for science... Happy new year. All good to you.
I would rather start with a wooded lot than a blank slate: Invite a group of friends, borrow equipment for a week and chip it all down (or hire an arborist to do the job for you) and you can start with a nice pile of wood chips PLUS what is probably more, you already have the same amount of organic matter ready in the soil through the roots AND the soil life is already inoculated with fungal populations and earthworms and what not AND the probabilty of starting on land which hasn't seen multiple chemical applications per year for the last 30 years is much higher than when starting on former crop land.
True but don’t forget to invite the crew over for the next 2-4 years to cut and chip all the root sprouts. May work well, try it and document each year abundantly and let me know.
@@StefanSobkowiak Good point, I think it comes down to whether you're ready to deal with that renewable source of biomass in your orchard ;) My main inspirations are you and Ernst Götsch (as taught by PermaDynamics in NZ, amazing teachers, check them out if you haven't yet) and since we have belowground voles in Europe I'm afraid of using plastic mulch, otherwise it would be almost impossible for any creature on earth to hunt them down under the plastic. And so I'm thinking how to combine syntropic principles (high density of support plants for soil build-up, wildlife, mulching, and/or early harvests) with your permaculture orchard (horizontal and vertical trios, grocery concept). My life situation is still 95% spectator, however I spent my twenties at university just like you and now I feel the basics are solid enough to give it a try (and I can't sit anymore). So I'm currently trying to arrange with a land owner to create an orchard for them and include my own experiments while producing fruit for their CSA. Let's hope we can plant the first six trios in autumn!
@@StefanSobkowiak I must get this book. In Poland I have found Growing Fruit Trees: Novel Concepts and Practices for Successful Care and Management (2011) Jean-Marie Lespinasse, is it cotrect name?
Yes. The best book in the world on these advanced techniques of training mostly and far less pruning. Not a beginners book but a great reference for temperate fruit and nuts.
I love Jesus. Everything else is secondary. In the garden, I love propagation. I especially love propagating blueberries...I’m not sure why. They’re hard. My success rate is not good yet...but I want to get better.
I love zucchinis, but so sad about all the other squashes and gourds, rhubarb,, watermelons, cucumbers that didn't have the chance to participate... I was also thinking that pole beans and peas would go so well in the orchard.
Two fruit trees and a nitrogen fixing tree or shrub or a fruit tree a nut tree and a nitrogen fixing tree or two nut trees and a nitrogen fixing tree. Because it’s a repeated series of three it’s a trio.
what you need to try in an area is building it up with dead woods. The fungi and the environment below will start to make natural steroids to warn of bacteria and harmful fungi.
do u have polish parents? because your name and sername is polish i know this because im polish too and im curious because im really interested in permaculture too
Lack of money; but for mother plants buying 3 or 4 from different sources [different varieties too] to give you some diversity in their genes too. And replacing say the mother plant every 3 or 5 years and you build out. And yes - like the build a say 50 trees worth plot, propagate and then build 5 more plots in year 3 say... then re-assess the variety choices - and maybe choose completely different ones
In thirty years, the north eastern states lost 80% of it's forests and stone walls were built with enough stone to build all the pyramids of Egypt. In Thirty years of trying to restore earths ecosystems, we've done almost nothing.😢
💔Spectating💔 There's so much more I want to do.... So much I haven't succeeded at. So much I've done but don't care about because there's no fruit.....
Training versus pruning: Stefan's course is really worth the price if you want to learn the techniques! He has some little known methods to reduce pruning time, by choosing the moves that really make a difference, that trick the tree into working for you.
"Don't be a shooting star. Be a meteorite. Make an impact."
I love that!
"Don't fight your site" - LOVE that!!! Even better than "Right plant in the right place"
my site: 7 acres of poison ivy and chinese privet
I had only 19 fruit trees when we bought the house, but only 3 of them produced anything. Watching Stefan's video and listening to him and we have added more trees to increase diversity and all of our trees produce and taste much better. (Yes, they tasted boring when they first started producing again.) Now I am applying these same permaculture principles to rose and flower garden beds around my fruit trees...tiny scale, but everything is so much better...blessings abound when you make things the way God intended.
Glad you’re enjoying the journey, next stop: ABSOLUTE ABUNDANCE.
We design orchard to Estonia and we have looked i think all Stefan's episodes. And we are absolutly happy we found this channel 🙂.
Me too, thanks.
When I first planted our fruit trees we didn't find any worms. Our soil was not living. 2 years in I now have some nice big fat worms out there. There is so much to learn .... orchards are different than veggie gardens!!!! But we are enjoying learning and are grateful for your sharing of info!
That’s the right attitude, always learning.
I'm so excited to find someone knowledgeable in Canada in our zone!!! Thank you!
RE: Greenhouse add-on. I often think that calling something a sunporch or solarium or passive solar room or enclosed patio, instead of a greenhouse, gets past city/county planners faster. Anything that gives the impression of luxury living or sustainable living (only if that is the "in thing) versus food or plant production often gets approved. Yes, it shouldn't be that way, but keeping property values up often gets ahead of reality.
Great idea!
100% my experience… and the urban planners know it- they just can’t say it out-loud.
What a great video to watch in winter while dreaming of springtime and next years projects. Thank you!
Super great teachers; thank you! I’m in my late 60’s & started permaculture growing in my urban yard over 3 years ago & still learning, thanks to Stephan’s UA-cam videos. I’m so grateful🤗❤️
I’m glad you embarked on this journey. Welcome aboard.
Fantastic! Thanks for sharing, Stefan. It was a pleasure to have you take part of our summit.
Michelle and Rob it was my pleasure. Looking forward to the PDC session.
I appreciate getting this shot of enthusiasm to press on. Covid transplant from urban west coast to rural zone 5 and giant learning curves what works and what doesn’t to regenerate a piece of land. Thank you for valuable share!!
Fantastic, learning curve for sure.
The last bit was worth watching the entire video. Permaculture 'undersells' its benefits!
I’m going to start a permaculture this year clean slate. It was 20 acres of corn soybean rotation for years so I planted some cover crops last fall on 6 acres or so. This spring I’m putting in 5 wire high tensile fence around the 20 acres because I have livestock that I MOB graze like Greg Judy. I have sheep, cattle, goats, donkey all broke to single wire poly braid. I’m working on one section at a time. I already started 2 acres of silvopasture and another 3 acres of lawn which was all Mob grazing. I’m watching you and Mark Shepard since he lives a few hours away from where I live. This winter is all about planning and develop on what I want to do this coming spring. The other 14 acres have a about an acre of wind breaks and waterways which is all on the south side of a hill. Thanks again for all your videos!
Sounds fantastic. Just keep the animals away from trees for a few years until the can walk under them. Always keep goats away from your trees with electric fence. Be warned.
I just wanted to take a second and thank you for all the encouragement. I planted my first two trios this winter, adapting many of your principles to our site (central GA, USA, zone 8).
Hey! I’m just north of you, Va Beach zone 8a. Do you mind sharing which trio you ended up going with?
@@katastrofikRQ I went with mulberry as my nitrogen fixers, then apple and olive as my fruit. I have black mulberry, Anna apple, abr??? Olive(sorry cant remember and paper works at home), red mulberry, golden dorsett apple, kalamata olive, (I added a peach and mimosa(nitrogen) and am getting pear for a third. I am using hazelnut, blackberry and elderberry as my shrubs. I am working my orchard into my horse and cow pasture, so my perennial layer is more forage crop based with white clover, Bermuda grass, some grazing turnip, etc (that is a work in progress)
You’re welcome my biggest reward is hearing of people starting like you. Congrats.
The Lord bless you and your family. Your teachings here have been so helpful as I look to plant and to develop some acres. Je vous remercie, M. Sobkowiak.
Bienvenue, blessings received and double back to you.
Thank you so much for the generous sharing you do of your work. I've had the honour of working with Dr. Bob Bors at the University of Saskatchewan 💓 Thought I was going to build a Haskap Orchard. But the land I bought is over grazed by cows. Until that changes, in the meantime, I discovered your Trio's... Yes!!! So last summer I and several helpers dug and dug in the blazing sun. But instead of a flat piece of land I decided to make Trio "pods" in some south facing knoll of recently cut white and black poplar. There's very little soil so instead of cultivating and opening it all up I just dug large holes for established fruit trees, shrubs and perennials. Why large holes, well the now exposed soil is a place for more plants and the natural underbrush remains largely intact. Created pods based on the natural contours of the land. Got a huge amount of snow this winter. So excited to see what next spring will offer. I live in the glacial poop highlands of Saskatchewan. Lol
Fantastic. Dr Bors is one of my heroes.
Thank you so much for this presentation! Have had a copy of The Permaculture Orchard for a while. Great video. I've been working on my two small test orchards for years and have learned a lot. Started my permaculture orchard last year and will be following the idea of finishing the 4 phases in small plots; seems to make sense. Will also be putting good effort into making and using my own nursery set up. I just love the constant learning, improvising, failing, overcoming, and doing it again. I agree that doing it on a budget is making me learn and put in the effort.
I have a bunch of old growth lumber I want to use for extending my deck to the south side of the house with the purpose of building in a attached greenhouse. That would be cool. You cover so much info, I can't thank you enough for all the things I have learned from you and put in to use! Feeding birds by hand is awesome!
Haha awesome it is. Congrats on getting started and learning from the journey. It gets easier and quicker as you go forward.
We had our woodland logged this winter (since a lot of neighboring land were logged the year prior, there was no longer any wind break and it was getting dangerous)
I intend to replant a part as a food forest, while using natives for the spots lacking regrowth
This will definitly help the food forest section ❤
Thank you for taking your time to share with us your experience and knowledge. I love the idea of having an attached greenhouse, but for houses in urban area I wish each house has a rooftop greenhouse. It'd help the grocery cost, heating cost. Besides, fresh vegies in the house are more available, and that saves part of transportation cost too.
Thanks for the name drop for the podcast Stefan. Interviews with the Verge team are always gold!
I'm coordinating with Rob right now for another one to start off the new season
You’re welcome Oliver I love your show.
@@StefanSobkowiak I would love to get you on this new season. I've finally got a property here in Spain and your work has been a big inspiration to the agroforestry and orchard design I'm making. This first year I'm starting with a Permaculture nursery and the space will eventually be an education hub. Maybe I can entice you over one day to teach a workshop with me?
Oliver I would love to end our next Euro tour in Spain. Hopefully this fall. So it would be in December in Spain.
@@StefanSobkowiak let's be in touch about that. I'll be in my new property then and could likely host it
Is there anyway you could link the podcast that Stefan talked about?
Thank you Stefan. I learned a great deal from you and your Video which I purchased on your site as well as your You Tube channel. I started my food forest in 2020 and I am amazed. I am hooked big time.
Congrats on getting started, the hardest part is done.
Love this and love Verge permaculture. BTW, we have a 3 season greenhouse off our front door. It's not permanent, it's based off the low tunnel idea, but bending the frame to reach from the ground to our (1st floor) eaves. And using a double layer of plastic as the walls. No checking with our building code because we didn't structurally change anything (we are also rural residential, not ag, not suburban). We have some local rules, but we work around them. I have 1 hot compost (use the heat for the greenhouse and also to start seed on top of) and 1 raised bed and 1 workbench within the space. We have a video series on this build. We keep evolving it, but it definitely helps us extend our seasons significantly here in SW Michigan.
Nice
Greetings from Germany🌱. Thanks for sharing this. Ist was very inspiring and I‘ve learned a lot from this Talk and from your UA-cam Channel. You are a big inspiration for what’s possible when you‘re put your mind on something and be persistant. At the same time treating mother nature mindful and with repect . Awesome🙏🍎🍏🍐
Glad to help.
I have been watching your videos and growing food on my property for the last couple years. Stephan I find you such an inspiration to expand and make the most of my acre. Unfortunately mostly I am overgrown with spruce and alders but I clear and plant back edible plants as I am able. Love to hear a fellow Canadian, cheers from Nova Scotia ❤️
Cheers glad you enjoy the journey.
Alder are probably the most under appreciated tree there is in Canada. Such a fantastic soil improver.
I feel like David the Good’s new book called Grocery Row Gardening would be a great supplement to your principles on establishing a permaculture orchard. Thank you for your work! Have a long term plan to have exactly what you describe. God’s blessings!
Dang right! David has a few good books. His Grocery Row Gardening and Compost Everything are two of my favorites! I believe more people should read his books.
David the Good has some very bad advice. He says he doesn't believe in no-till. Ask any soil biologist in the world about the damages that tilling can do. Ask Dr. Ingham. It's not a debate.
I am not a big dogma guy but if don't believe in this very real scientific fact how can you give gardening advice to others? The real focus should be on figuring out the best way to move forward with different no-till practices. I mean we're all screwed anyways but you can't pick and choose when to follow peer reviewed science.
@@jackturner4917 Dr. Ingham has made some really great contributions to soil biology science. However, she is not the only voice on the topic. How about John Kempf, for example, who has years of experience and has worked with hundreds of large scale growers; and Don Huber who is also a reputable soil scientist? Maybe David is listening to them? Of course they don't recommend excessive tillage, but they have science to prove that judicious use of tillage is not always bad in every way.
@@bountywoodsfarm8594 JADAM method is worth looking at too! Much more simple and contradicts much of what Dr. Ingham promotes, but has amazing results despite this fact.
@@jackturner4917 no till is heavily dependent on herbicide applications.....
Tillage has a time and place.
Great video just what I was looking for. Thank you for taking time to make this
Awesome interview/teaching; thank you!
I have only a garden with fruit trees and tried to plan to design the mini-orchard to produce fruits in batches over an extended period of time and found it very frustrating. For some reason I couldn't find trees characteristics gathered all in one place. I even wanted to put it on the internet myself (in Polish) but couldn't bother starting a website for this reason. Anyway I'm totally in love with the idea of building permaculture and thank you very much for sharing your knowledge which is not readily available in my country
We’ve learned so much from your channel- thanks for sharing your knowledge and keeping it simple and practical. The visuals are really helpful! I couldn’t agree more with the abundance comments- you WILL have so much you’ll have to share!
Thanks. I’m glad you’ve experienced ABUNDANCE.
Wonderful person! I'm so grateful to you! I' m making orchard and i try do everything just as you say.thank you for doing mistakes
I love the rabbit roller idea. We need to come up with chicken and duck rollers. Has anyone ever seen it done?
The book Stefan recommended in the video for training fruit trees: Growing Fruit Trees: Novel Concepts and Practices for Successful Care and Management -- - Jean-Marie Lespinasse (Editor), Evelyne Leterme (Editor)
I love how Stefan said "first" in a thick French accent after presenting this book, probably, because he was still thinking in French after trying to translate its name.
Channel "Fully Raw Kristina" before planting her trees on her new property in Hawaii. She planted peanut to put minerals back into the soil. The before and after photos you could see a huge difference. So lush and green, beautiful.
"I don't want to document decline, I want to regenerate" - Stefan
I like that too. It’s what got me out of biology and into regeneration.
Appreciate your videos Stefan! Thanks for sharing! It was my favorite quote.
The Rabbit Roller is whimsical enough to reach an audience outside those who seek out permaculture videos.
Sic someone on it's perfection. (and I'll admit, it looks useful in my context.)
Great idea
I'm thinking a bicycle pedal shaft could be attached with it's bearings at the center of the two ends. The crank hanging down on the inside would provide the support to the hanging hutch structure.
Do you remember the original diameter? It looked like it worked reasonably well.
There really should be a website that pulls all permaculture knowledge into 1. Where you can pick where you're at, and everyone that does permaculture around you gives their experience. Like, how did he know which plants would be ready which week? There's just so much info that he learned that others have already learned, which is good, but I think it holds the whole community back. Rather than learning and growing as a community everyone learns the same things over and over, and they sell their knowledge which also holds back the community as a whole because still it's only their own knowledge.
We are working on it
One of the better videos on UA-cam and very inspiring 🔑✊🏻👊🏻👍🏻
Some wonderful advice and information! Thank you for sharing your experiences, I will definitely be applying it to my future permaculture plans.
On that note I'm going out to take some strawberry cuttings and pot them up. Did one the other day to see how it would go, if I was too early being mid March in zone 5. The surecrop variety took 3 days to send up a crown. These plants are begging to grow so I will give them what they want and be expanding my patch as well as hopefully selling some as well. Great video per usual, thanks friend.
Just call it a “solarium”- then attach it as an extension to the southern side…make sure it is pretty. Greenhouses are not allowed? Change the name and the style-you’ll be good to go; call it a porch…an extended entry…a mud-room… 😊
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. I've been binge watching your videos, ordered your documentary. We are in BC in zone 3/4 on 140 acres. We've been trying to get apples established for 20 years. Just as they begin to be productive the voles girdle them. I appreciated your teaching on voles. After watching several of your videos, we are going to change our plans in how we were going to set up the trees. Thanks for being so generous with your teaching.
You’re welcome. Yes follow the advice for the tree guards it will save you many trees.
@@StefanSobkowiak Thank you.
I have learned so very much from you in the past two years... Only wish I'd had that knowledge forty years ago.
If you're ambitious, I believe there is a need for two books. One on the identification of WEEDS at various stages of growth, their habits and indications. The other is a GOOD book on insect identification as it applies to gardens and orchards. Again, at various stages of growth and control measures. Or perhaps they exist and I'm in my normal state of cluelessness. 😊
Much love.
They exist as books or articles. Look for indicator plants.
Quick, cheap or good: my son heard a weight trainer speak about those in regards to food. The guy said you could only pick any 2 of the 3. So it can be quick & good (expensive), cheap & good (time consuming), or quick & cheap (unhealthy). Interesting to hear you use the same concepts with the orchard.
Hello from PEI. Food selection and quantiy are not present, so we have created an orchard, flower and fruit veggie garden. I'm passing info to my grandboys. Thanks for sharing your info.
Fantastic congrats
In my experience the hardest thing to understand when starting out is the wholistic concept of the planting, as Stefan learned: figuring out your Permaculture guilds and putting them in together. That plus mulch plus amendments and planting depth in view of your soil type. Just a PDC is not enough.
Good point. Thanks.
Great to see another of your videos Stefan. Must remember to do all 4 phases at a time! I'm curious how do you mark / record location of your tress so you know what variety they are? I don't recall that in any of your other videos. I'm early learning, so don't expect that I will just be able to look at a tree and know what it is, especially a particular variety of apple for example. God Bless!
I recorded a planting plan when planting, we grew the trees in our nursery and they were known (mostly). I have the planting plan in a spreadsheet, it’s a pretty good way to keep a record, especially if planted in rows at set spacing.
2 ?s
1. Rabbit Roller design/ plans available?
2. Technique to germinate Hazelnut seed and variety grown.
No plans yet for rabbit roller. Place hazelnut seed in soil in fall and cover with wire mesh to keep out critters. They will start popping out in spring.
How did it go? I'm digging out hazelnut seedlings from my mother's garden (the neighbor's tree hangs over our property).
Our farm is a no till small farm with high production vegetable farming an focus on reganative ag an soil health and expanding into vermiculture. Looking to expand into berries, vine, an trees. We are 3 acres an looking to purchase the 4 acres next to us that is just green grass thats never been sprayed. bought our first commercial green house 40+100 ft from another nursery will be purchasing the other ones..
Thank you for sharing and we just want to help others access good food for a fair price..
Fantastic. 3 acres is a serious commitment, especially vegetables. With 7 acres better have some great help. Key is to add crops that don't add to your peak work times already, try to add some that smooth out work load.
@@StefanSobkowiak Thank you for the wisdom and we will look further into that type of transition. We specialize in greens an other root vegetables.. yes help is key and will be trading veggies for help. Your information is Paramount an thank you again.
Good stuff! Only 11 more weeks til spring!
Dear Stefan, I would like to thank you for saving my health. Doctors found out I had been sufering from quasi psoriasis (sort of autoimmuned disease). There was no medicine to heal it. 3-4 years ago I realized the disease is caused by any eaten milk products (milk, cream, cheese, other product containing milk like eg chocolate). So I dodn not eat all those things. After 10 year I watched your video about bactirias / microbiom cooperating with roots. Then you told human beeing has got it (baterias, microbiom) in his guts. I experienced to be enlightened. Years before I destroyed my microbiom, which could not regenerate. I purchased special mix of probiotics. Additionally stopped drinking caffee (huge quantities are not good for my digestion). In fact I had already stopped drinking caffee a few times before, but no influence for soriasis dissease. -After 7-8 weeks I could eat again all milk products again. Thanks you and my gardening interests I have been healed. Thank You very much x 1.000. Best wishes from Poland.
Nazdrowie. Dzenkuje.
@@StefanSobkowiak Thank You very much and I keep gargdening and watchin your video 👍
Hopefully didn't miss the answer in the video, but can you grow fruit trees in a large pot that can be moved around ? Long story short: We bought trees, Not sure where to put them now that we are starting to learn lots of things from your channel. And we are also in the midst of finding another piece of land we may turn into a food forest. Just didn't know if we could keep them "portable" in large pots for a while until we are able to decide where to put them.
Yes you can keep them portable.
Stefan, I LOVE all your videos! I have learned so much! I have so many comments and questions, but let me start with one. What would be a good source for whey for a small orchard with 2 to 4 trios? Not many dairies around here anymore. Can I buy and reconstitute whey powder from the grocery store?
My grandfather had a fruit farm on Lake Michigan 100 years ago, but I can't grow fruit trees to save my life! Apples grow wild (like weeds) on my property, but the ones I plant don't survive. Most discouraging!
I would take a look WHERE exactly the wild ones are growing, seems like the planted ones may not be in the same conditions. If that’s not the issue try moving a bucket of soil from under a wild one to under your planted one (may be lacking mycorrhiza.
Thank you for sharing this.
Regarding your efforts to get a greenhouse attached to your home. Ask your municipality if you can add an enclosed porch to your house. They may not care about how your porch is constructed (i.e. with a clear roof and huge windows) and they certainly have little to say about how you use your porch. Sometimes it's how you ask the question ;)
Exactly, thanks
Hello Stephan! This summit last spring and in particular, this hour, with you and your orchard, has sent me down an exciting rabbit hole of learning! Your You Tube videos contain such great info in such a digestible way. I recently bought your permaculture orchard video and I am in the planning phase of starting my trios.
One question if I might ask. The land where my orchard will be, is considered a transition zone between boreal forest and aspen Parkland. We are an off grid location but have natural springs and plan on using solar for my water needs! Sorry if this is a silly question, I am still wrapping my mind around that nitrogen fixers are not just the beans and peas in my vegetable garden and include trees, but that this must be happening in nature as well.
My question is; if I am making my food forest/orchard in a native forest, does my orchard need the same nitrogen fixing needs that orchards would need when building a food forest/orchard from a monoculture, or previously altered landscape? We plan on clearing a small area that has great sun, but currently is wild spruce, poplars, raspberries, saskatoons, wild roses and of course native grasses, plants and fungi. (we have 40 acres of this abundance, so I don't mind taking a sliver for some different fruit trees.) Any guidance would be appreciated!
Angie welcome to the rabbit hole. By removing some of the existing trees you will be altering that area. You have the space just add N fixers. You can use alder, caragana, Seaberry they should grow well in your climate. Certainly use what is already growing, raspberries and Saskatoons. Diversity is key. Have fun.
What the complete name you mentioned at 45:57, about training trees?
Dr Jean-Marie Lespinasse. He’s got a fantastic book called www.amazon.com/Growing-Fruit-Trees-Successful-Management/dp/0393732568.
Do you use cut or shredded potato to your compost tea to give more sugars for the microbial life? Alittle bit of potato goes a long way
No we eat potatoes and buy some molasses. A $30 bucket of molasses goes a really long way.
I heard about how you planned your rows to have synchronized harvest timing in multiple videos at this point, how did that worked out for you in terms of pest management? Easier, harder, no visible impact?
So much better, I would never go back to a monoculture organic orchard. By design it solved our worst problem pests (which I'm now excited to see because I know they will be gone within 3 days, no intervention on my part). We mass trap for the last 2.
I have lots of huge oaks and pines and a few small open areas. I value their carbon sequestration and cooling so I’d feel guilty cutting them down (plus very expensive). Will it be impossible to grow fruit trees among the huge ones if they get enough sun, will competition doom them? So far only one pear in front yard has done ok. Backyard has armilleria killing oaks but cherry does ok. This is coastal acid sand. Thank you wonderful video!
If grass grows well and thick in that spot so will fruit trees, 8 hours of sun minimum. Less than that the leaves grow but little flowers or fruit.
Thank you, Stefan, it’s the tree roots that seem to be the biggest problem. I don’t know what to do about them strangling the fruit tree roots.
@@StefanSobkowiak do you have suggestions for the competition from tree roots? That is my biggest problem with these huge oaks and pines.
Trees are used to grow with roots intermingled, they even cooperate with nearby trees. Sounds crazy but research since the 90s has proven it time and time again. See the great book ´Mother trees’ by Dr Suzanne Simard.
Yes Stefan, I remember measuring the distance between various species of trees in ecology class. Some are friends, some not. Thank you for your replies!
Very very good! Thank you!
Fantastic! We will put your suggestions into practice next autumn here in Italy on ten acres.
What kind of rootstock do you use for apple trees? For training (not pruning) system do you use m9 or similar? We have clay fertile soil and I'm afraid that mm11 pushes too much...
We use m26, m106 and seedling and adjust spacing accordingly.
do you have videos with your favorite fruit trees for zone 4?
Most of what I have will work in zone 4 (Canada), just replace honey locust with Seaberry and alder.
Have you ever considered pawpaws? I have seen growers having success with them in Quebec. They are native to Canada and it's a tropical fruit!
Trying them for the fourth time and finally have two surviving.
Awesome info!!! Can I plant my fruit trees in the winter in zone 7?
Sure as long as the soil isn’t frozen.
@@StefanSobkowiak thank you!
Hay NAP can the P be nuts, citrus , figs etc and can I switch apple for the same or does the apple play a important role to balance
You should switch all of them to fruit, nut and nitrogen fixers that suit your soils and climate.
@@StefanSobkowiak great solution figs and pigs 🐷
I started a small food forest in my backyard starting with fruit trees. I now have 2 Pawpaw trees, 2 Pear Trees, 1 Persimmon Tree, 1 Peach Tree, 2 Fig Trees, and 4 American Hazelnut Bushes/Trees. Half of them are now starting to produce. I am now focusing on understory plants. I have 3 Thornless Blackberry bushes and some Honeyberry bushes. I also plan to get a small chicken coop for a few hens. I don't have Apple Trees cause my neighbor already has those. We trade off. Any suggestions on perennials I could add?
Nice.
Thyme, oregano, daylilies……
I enjoyed watching this video and it inspired me to rewatch your dvd & take notes. Question regarding the concept of pruning: I recently read “Grow A Little Fruit Tree” by Ann Ralph. She encourages homeowners who’d like to grow fruit trees in smaller spaces to prune at summer solstice to retard growth & help keep trees at a manageable (non-ladder) height for picking & managing. I’m wondering if your French training technique could be combined with this method? Could you train the main trunk/chimney to bend down and be the topmost fruiting “branch” at your desired tree height?
You can usually keep a tree to 2/3 of it’s normal height for a given root by bending the top. You can keep it lower with summer pruning, better and easier to just choose a less vigorous rootstock.
33:24 What spreaders are you using? Thank you!
A branch with a v
@@StefanSobkowiak I meant what are you using to spread the compost. What type/brand of spreader. Thanks!
Depends on quantity, shovels and trailer when applying to trees. Agrifab spin spreader when broadcast thin.
Hello Mr. Sobkowiak
I have a question and I'm pretty sure this isn't the correct spot, but hoping you might show a little mercy and answer a tree question. I have 7+ yo fruit trees that had a ring of poison spray to remove the grass. The trees make some fruit but drop before they are ready. Should i try to mulch and try to build the soil life or remove the trees and start over. Do you think the trees can be salvaged?
Yes try to salvage. Stop the herbicides, add some good compost then mulch.
@@StefanSobkowiak thank you
40:18 1200 ft of cord wood. "The dog and chicken didn't like me either" 😂
Do you have a video or plans available for the rabbit roller?
Not yet
@@StefanSobkowiak ok thanks! I will be waiting then!
I love listening to you dole out wisdom!
Permaculture is the best way to restore ecosystems while growing food. At Suzy-Farms we practice pure organic permaculture too. Check us out and leave a comment on what we need to improve on.
Is that graphic correct? It shows the summit was last year. Are there new dates for this year?
yes, this is a recording from last year. Check out Verge Permaculture, they might organise a summit this year, too. The last two where fantastic!
@@MartinaSchoppe we're hoping to host another one!
Where do you recommend buying fruit trees and root stock to get started?
When it’s grown as close to home as possible. Avoid buying far south or North of you.
2 Words: Zucchini Bread.
I absolutely love Zucchini Bread.
I have 3 sweet cherry in my fence orchard. Would those bird boxes you shown in another video be a good idea? I can bird net roof my 15 x 14 vinyardwith grapes blueberries and aronia.
I want to share some cherries as payment and sharing to my bird friends but not all...
Yes add nest boxes and bird netting when fruit are almost ripe.
Hi stefan, im a long time follower and fan, and client, not only of that project, but also, and mostly, of you, as a teacher and caracter.
Please take this questions/doubts as ones from someone that is a fan, a student, and a manager of a permaculture food forest homestead for a few years now.
Somethings seem contraditory and are difficult to understand.
1- about soil: you mention "remineralizing" the soil as something that produced a quick change in the produtivity. But arent soils themselfs minerals? Sandy soils..are mineral soils, right? Ingram ( you refered her) said that herself. Dosent rock dust (in your case basalt?) Takes decades in the soil, with the action of rain, erosion, action of fungus, algea, etc, until the minerals are soluble and usable by plants? You said your self: in sandy soils its very easy to grow almost everything if you just give it enough water ( thats also what i experience and study and what i see in my case and in my area, wich is full of orchards and veggie fiels, both clay and sandy).
2- about the nitrogen fixing trees. Its known that some species fix nitrogen in the roots, and, in the long cycle (years, decades) that nitrogen and carbon from roots and leaves, etc, end up being fertilizer for other plants, specially after you cut them, or they die...but until then, arent they using nitrogen and other minerals and elements, and water, light... so, really competing with the other trees and plants? How much nitrogen and carbon do they really fix and its avaiable to other plants while they are alive and growing (and compared with a hanfull of manure for ex)? What am i missing or wrong here? Are they there because of diversity? Or just because of a ideologic and asthetic reason? Whats the science in this subject aply to your contex?
3- business/money. You said that your orchard was a black hole for money and time for many years. And, as you said, money is essencial in any project and business. Did that change? It changed because of produtivity and costs in the orchard itself, or because marketing and selling strategies, or because you got other incomes from workshops, consulting, youtube, merchandising, etc?
As a student praticioner sometimes its difficult to get a complete and real picture of a reality from videos (i bought your videos too), and see whats science, whats personal experience and preferences, whisfull thinking, whats marketing, etc.
To be honest, yours is the only comercial "permaculture orchard" thats presented as economicly viable and sustanaible, because none other that i know off can be a example in a comercially/business point of view without other reveneus (youtube, workshops,turism etc)...except maybe the guys in brasil that do "syntropic agroforestry" (ernst gnosh) , wich is kind of similar to what you teach, but they do it in large scale and with much more diversity and intensity...
Well, tanks.
Great questions and it’s obvious you’re a student rather than a watcher. 1- rock dust is all about particle size. True rock dust should have I think it’s 80% smaller than 200 mesh. At that size it’s immediately useable or shortly after. In previous experience with basalt dust it’s effects lasted 4 years with one application. Sand doesn’t hold a lot of fertility and since it was conventional before we bought the easily leached minerals were depleted. So we added basalt. 2- I’ve been enjoying Suzanne Simard’s fantastic book about nutrient sharing between trees. There is so much going on and it can begin within hours rather than decades. I trust what I see. Yes we prune them which gives nutrients below ground and in the branches removed. There is far more cooperation than competition, which is an outdated notion. There is a lot of follow up research needed but since there is no money to make by saving money don’t hold your breath for the science to catch up. 3- Yes I now make more income from educational efforts than farm production. Education is more of a passion for me than production, so I focus on it. If someone who loved the production was running our farm it would provide a living or two. We could produce more fruit, eggs, meat and veggies. Yes the early years can be tough with money going out, that’s why I suggest annuals (veggies and meat) in first 3-5 years to offset the expenses. Or establish the orchard while still working at another job. Best success, hope this helps.
@@StefanSobkowiak Tanks for the answers.
I do my best to do "typical" permaculture to my self, including use of nitrogen fixing trees, and is going great in small 3 acres scale, homesteading context. Is becomming just a great food forest garden, quite produtive and beautiful, to self enjoy. But this is not comercially viable, and not even a teaching ground. I hoped , at least, it could become inspiring in challenging the conventional pratices i see all around me. But for that i need more then this, i need numbers, science. Field test, comercial numbers, etc. Lets face it, permaculture is very weak in this....Otherwise conventional farmers dont even look at it, and to more amateur newcomers open to new ideias i could be misleading someone into the wrong path...into no sustainable pratices.
Im literaly asking for your help here, since you are one of the few with science background and experience in the field in " permaculture orchard".
This are questions/doubts that are put to me by family and friends that do "conventional" agriculture, mostly pear and apple orchards, but also landscape gardenners and veggie producers. Many of them with lots of academic degrees and experience in the field on this matters. And they always call me out about the numbers, the science. And then i shut up, because there are no number and clear science in many permaculture pratices. And in veggie prodution we already have many examples of organic farmming with amaizing results that can compete, to a point (usually are much more expensive), but in permaculture orchard/fruit prodution field...its a desert of good examples! I only known your example and the syntropic agroforestry guys in brasil.
For a conventional farmer the biggest problems never seems to be on the field, not even with deseases, wheather and labour issues, but rather in dealing with distribution, and risk and margin gains... its the comercial part thats a challenge, because the fields are very produtive.
3. Clear answer.
2. Its a pity there is no science, no numbers, on this, yet. Maybe you could do a series of video trials (at least it would be pop science in small scale) , something like: trios with and without nitrogen fixers...
tanks for the suggestion. In english knew only the works of tom wessels, a true forestry master, that point in the same direction you mention. He have wonderfull books on that subject and other relating complex sistems in forestry ( and life). There are good yt videos of him about it too...
1. If basalt rock dust worked so well, so fast and durable, why didnt you repeated? Why nobody in conventional agro use it ( and theres no establish science on it, other than what the sellers say about it) being it so much cheaper then the usual npk blends, which are also mined minerals!? Does a nkp mineral - or, better, pk, because n have diferrent sources other then mineral rock minning - aplication counts as "remineralizing"? Why do you say the soil was depleated when you bought it? Almost 99% of conventional producers fertilize (with npk s, which are mined minerals, like rock dust) , usually even in excess... most conventional agro lands dont get depleated of nutrients, they sometimes get toxic because of many reasons, including excess nutrition! One gardner friend just put this subject like this; rock dust is just a waste product of minning, that is sell mostly for constrution and landscaping, and , with a much bigger profit margin, to organic agro producers, mostly home growers, that dont ask for science...
Happy new year. All good to you.
Do u have a Japanese Beetle problem there? If so, how do u combat them?
We have them but they focus on a few species. I suspect the birds have begun to eat them here.
What is your row and tree spacing?
8x12’ to 28x24’ depends on rootstock, cultivar vigour and soil.
I'm in Northern Michigan. I'm trying to find basalt. Do you know where I can order it by the truckload?
No. Look up basalt quarry. If not a mixed gravel dust is very good also. Trucking distance determines cost so as local as possible is best.
@@StefanSobkowiak Thanks for the help!
I would rather start with a wooded lot than a blank slate: Invite a group of friends, borrow equipment for a week and chip it all down (or hire an arborist to do the job for you) and you can start with a nice pile of wood chips PLUS what is probably more, you already have the same amount of organic matter ready in the soil through the roots AND the soil life is already inoculated with fungal populations and earthworms and what not AND the probabilty of starting on land which hasn't seen multiple chemical applications per year for the last 30 years is much higher than when starting on former crop land.
True but don’t forget to invite the crew over for the next 2-4 years to cut and chip all the root sprouts. May work well, try it and document each year abundantly and let me know.
@@StefanSobkowiak - if you deprive the stump of all light you won't have to worry much about the sprouts. True, I've dealt with only one :)
@@StefanSobkowiak Good point, I think it comes down to whether you're ready to deal with that renewable source of biomass in your orchard ;)
My main inspirations are you and Ernst Götsch (as taught by PermaDynamics in NZ, amazing teachers, check them out if you haven't yet) and since we have belowground voles in Europe I'm afraid of using plastic mulch, otherwise it would be almost impossible for any creature on earth to hunt them down under the plastic. And so I'm thinking how to combine syntropic principles (high density of support plants for soil build-up, wildlife, mulching, and/or early harvests) with your permaculture orchard (horizontal and vertical trios, grocery concept).
My life situation is still 95% spectator, however I spent my twenties at university just like you and now I feel the basics are solid enough to give it a try (and I can't sit anymore). So I'm currently trying to arrange with a land owner to create an orchard for them and include my own experiments while producing fruit for their CSA. Let's hope we can plant the first six trios in autumn!
Training trees, only apples and pears, or plum and cherries too?
plums and cherries too. Also works for nut trees.
@@StefanSobkowiak I must get this book. In Poland I have found Growing Fruit Trees: Novel Concepts and Practices for Successful Care and Management (2011) Jean-Marie Lespinasse, is it cotrect name?
Yes. The best book in the world on these advanced techniques of training mostly and far less pruning. Not a beginners book but a great reference for temperate fruit and nuts.
@@StefanSobkowiak thank You very much
Good one Sir.
1000 trees in a 70ftx30ft area? are there some zeros missing on the area there? thats like no spacing at all between the trees?
It’s correct. That’s in a nursery, 3 inches between trees and 2.5 feet between rows.
@@StefanSobkowiak oh ok that makes sense
I love Jesus. Everything else is secondary. In the garden, I love propagation. I especially love propagating blueberries...I’m not sure why. They’re hard. My success rate is not good yet...but I want to get better.
What podcast are they referring to in the intro banter?
Regenerative skills podcast with Oliver Goshey.
@@StefanSobkowiak Thank you!
Awesome video. ♡
Thank you!!!
You're welcome!
Lol, I'm doing the same kind of daydreaming as cwand! well done yall
I love zucchinis, but so sad about all the other squashes and gourds, rhubarb,, watermelons, cucumbers that didn't have the chance to participate...
I was also thinking that pole beans and peas would go so well in the orchard.
They can do well in first 3 years just keep them off the fruit trees as they can bend them down under the weight of crop.
What book on soil do you know Stephan?
The Soil and Health by Sir Albert Howard is a classic and highly pertinent to today as well to show us that we haven't learned yet.
Thank you
What are the trios?
Two fruit trees and a nitrogen fixing tree or shrub or a fruit tree a nut tree and a nitrogen fixing tree or two nut trees and a nitrogen fixing tree. Because it’s a repeated series of three it’s a trio.
what you need to try in an area is building it up with dead woods. The fungi and the environment below will start to make natural steroids to warn of bacteria and harmful fungi.
thanks so much
do u have polish parents?
because your name and sername is polish i know this because im polish too
and im curious because im really interested in permaculture too
Yes
Lack of money; but for mother plants buying 3 or 4 from different sources [different varieties too] to give you some diversity in their genes too. And replacing say the mother plant every 3 or 5 years and you build out. And yes - like the build a say 50 trees worth plot, propagate and then build 5 more plots in year 3 say... then re-assess the variety choices - and maybe choose completely different ones
Great plan, especially adding to diversity on a continual basis. You will know when you hit gold with a cultivar.
In thirty years, the north eastern states lost 80% of it's forests and stone walls were built with enough stone to build all the pyramids of Egypt.
In Thirty years of trying to restore earths ecosystems, we've done almost nothing.😢
Ingram says all the soil has all the minerals so why buy basalt?
Because we can agree to disagree agreeably.
💔Spectating💔 There's so much more I want to do.... So much I haven't succeeded at. So much I've done but don't care about because there's no fruit.....
It’s all part of the journey.
@@StefanSobkowiak 💖💚