Dependent and Independent Volume Controls Explained
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- Another Breja Tone Works video - this time we'll go over the differences between Dependent and Independent Volume Controls and how you can wire your guitar to use either. As a bonus, you'll get a few bits about the Vintage/Modern Tone wiring thrown in.
Nominating for the Less Talk More Rock award for most enjoyable, most informative and least bullshit guitar wiring video. I knew nothing about dependent vs independent wiring OR modern vs classic wiring. And that’s after 45 years of playing and maintaining my guitars. I got, it sank in on the first viewing and I will remember I and utilize this new knowledge for the next 45 years of guitar antics. Thanks MR. I have subscribed to your channel and look forward to more informative and useful guitar centric vids. Rock & Roll!
Mind blown
Really
For years I thought dependent volume control is the only way
Now it all makes sense
I will make my pots independent right now
Thank you!
I had just purchased a Gibson firebird that has dependant controls, and I had no idea of how they worked or even if something might have been malfunctioning on my guitar!
There are no videos on the internet that I can find that explain how these dependant systems work with dual volume and dual tone knobs.
Thank you for your video, it was very helpful.
Thank you. All the other information about this seemed far more vague, you have made this very clear
I've got a Tokai Les Paul I'm currently renovating and I've got a set of humbucker size P90's that I'm planning on using in it, and as the neck pickup is reverse wound reverse polarity, I plan on only using it in the middle position to take advantage of the hum cancelling properties of that middle position but normally it's a pain in the arse when you turn 1 volume knob down to zero the guitar shuts down.
I've been pulling my hair out for the last few days trying to find out information about this, I didn't even know what it was called so that I could search for information properly !!
Now I know, and I can go ahead and wire my Tokai with humbucker 90's as planned, great !
Thanks for posting this, you've saved me a lot of time and hassle. Cheers mate 👍
As a follow up to my comment, I wired my Les Paul equipped with humbucker sized P90s in vintage 1950s style and also with independent volume controls, now it works & sounds perfect !!
As the neck pickup is reverse wound/reverse polarity, the middle position is hum cancelling. This means that for this guitar I only need to keep it set to the middle position and I can blend the pickups, and if I want to use the bridge pickup then I can just blend it with a barely noticeable hair of neck pickup or vice versa if I want to use the neck pickup, and I've got a noise free P90 sound thanks to this wiring.
I think I might wire all 3 of my Les Pauls this way and just keep it in the middle position all the time. Blending pickups is perfect and I get way more tones from this guitar than I ever got from it before I wired it this way.
The middle position rules !! Thanks Dan. 👍
Massive thanks for this info: so simple yet has not been explained anywhere else that Ive seen, causing months of discombobulating volume setups on my guitars as I use my overdeveloped confidence and underdeveloped ability/knowledge to work improving my sound. I got to the point where everything sounded amazing… until you touch a volume pot.
Thanks again!
I’m off to the soldering bench.
From Leo: Nothing is free. I like the function of the independent wiring scheme, but it has a draw back. The lowering of the volume also puts a low resistance load on the pickup, This really kills the high frequencies. Anything under 1/2 volume gets really muddy. Thanks for your clear, well presented wiring videos.
I agree. Checked now with LTSpice.
Couldn't a treble bleed setup help that?
The rapid loss of tone is annoying with independent wiring. Has anyone else experienced humming with volume controls on zero with independent wiring?
This was immensely clear and concise.
I'm surprised more guitars don't come wired as "independent" Seems like you would always want the option to be able to blend the pickups when in the middle position and if not, don't change the volume settings. I can't wait to try this!
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I was dumb lost the login password. I appreciate any help you can offer me
@Elliott Mack Instablaster ;)
@Martin Shane Thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site thru google and im waiting for the hacking stuff now.
Takes a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Martin Shane It did the trick and I finally got access to my account again. I'm so happy:D
Thanks so much you saved my ass :D
@Elliott Mack Happy to help =)
yo Don, sorry about former comment. Have gone with this version and am now in vintage, independent tone heaven. Many thanks for this tip.
Hey Breja, I landed here to your videos and I loved them. I have this Ibanez RG550 which I installed a set of Seymour Duncan invaders (Neck-Bridge) and Cool rail (H) for strat in the middle position. I'd like to control the volume (middle) independent of the bridge and neck because frankly speaking I never use the tone.
Lleva el cable de la pastilla central al nuevo pote de volumen y de ahí, al selector de pastillas.
You just blew my mind! Thanks for a very clear explanation
+Andrew Devonport Hopefully you've paid your medical insurance premiums. :)
To keep it simple, this is awesome.
Thanks for this! It was driving me crazy in the middle position that one volume controlled them both. I made mine independent and like how I can blend the pickups now. It’s two hum canceling P90s, two volumes, no tone.
Thank you, it solved my problem.
First time doing this kind of wiring and it worked by miracle!!!
Brilliant, easy to follow guidance!
Another great and informative video! Thanks so much and welcome back :)
Great presentation. Thanks a lot!
New to wiring this was really helpful!
Brilliant just want I've been looking for
Thanks, I was looking for this solution just last night.
Hi. Very interesting! Just a question if I may: I see also other wiring diagram where the capacitor connect volume to tone pot. Once in modern style and once in 50s style. What's the difference, and why you don't take this tast in the video? Thanks. Cheers
Could you please do a video on wiring up an explorer with 2 volume and tone control with 3 way toggle switch. Thank you
Love your videos man. Thank you for all the help!
Thanks... I appreciate it.
What’s the difference between soldering one leg of the cap to ground instead linking volume and tone pots with the capacitor?
that way works also. Pretty much everyone but gibson does it that way.
I can see why you might want dependant controls, I like to turn volume off while I tune my guitar with the headstock tuner, it's convenient to just turn one pot down as opposed to both, especially in the heat of battle.
I rewired all my guitars to be like this. I also swapped the controls so the bridge pick-up controls on the top instead of bottom.
Me too it's so much easier if you're mostly on the bridge puckup
Here's a question I'm currently trying to find an answer to. If I've got things wired independently as shown in this video, will the guitar hum through the amp when volume is rolled down to zero? I already experience the loss of tone going from 10 to anything less with volume, but the hum bugs me
what i dont understand is, i wired my LP to your modern way on your other video (wiring for vintage or modern and it works as the dependent volume wiring.) you showed wiring the cap from lug 2 on the tone pot to lug 3 on the volume pot. and grounding lug 1 on the tone pot.whereas here your modern wiring for dependent is the cap is from lug 2 to grd and lug 1on the tone pot to lug 3 on the volume pot? which is correct?
Just what I needed to understand how to wire 2 pickups for a blended output. Am I right that a certain amount of "phasing" will occur? Your videos and diagrams are outstanding! Thanks
you can blend pickups with either Dependent or Independent wiring.
You can, but with dependant wiring as soon as you turn 1 volume knob near to zero both pickups go silent, but with this independent wiring you can blend more freely without the volume cutting out.
It's especially handy if you're using P90s/humbucker sized P90s where 1 pickup is wound RW/RP and are hum cancelling in the middle position, like I do.
For me it means that all I have to do is keep it in the middle position and use the volume knobs to select 1 pickup along with the tiniest amount of the other pickup and I get hum free P90s when it wouldn't be hum cancelling if I select the bridge or neck pickups on their own.
this guy is the best
Great video. Quick question: is there a different between A)wiring the cap between the volume and tone pot and B)using a jumper and grounding the cap to the tone pot? I've seen it done both ways.
Electronically it's the same.
Thank you
great instructional vids, thanks
I won't separate potentiometer in Harley Benton JA60.
Does anyone have a hint on how to do this? Do you add a linear 250k potentiometer or replace both with 250k. Should any other electronic components be used?
I'm in the process of educating myself on guitar wiring to understand why modern/vintage wiring is different. Besides getting a schematic and wiring one up I don't understand the circuit enough to build one from scratch using any pickup/switch/pot configuration. I have wired all my guitars this way because I'm a set my lead tone and roll back the guitar vol for my cleans kinda guy. As fas a independant/dependent wiring, modern/vintage goes I'm lost on the why parts. You got anything that can point me in the why direction? Also, in your half LP wiring demo the tone cap on the tone control is not setup like a standard way? Does it matter where the tone cap is? Most LP I see have the tone cap attached from the vol to the tone in some kind of way for both modern and vintage? Thanks, I enjoy the videos they are helpful.
+X Crow There are a lot of 'why' answers available on the internet but to me, the best way to learn is to do each scheme yourself and listen to how the controls interact with each other. You'll find that suddenly everything makes sense. Also - it doesn't matter electronically where a cap is connected on a tone pot. It only matters where the connection is made from the volume pot to the tone pot.
+Breja ToneWorks Thanks, great videos by the way
If I have no tone only two volume pots will dependence/independence have the same effect?
I have checked and it does.
But without a tone knob I have to add some tone compensators aka capasitors to keep the treble close to original signal with tone pot when you roll of a volume.
I wish you had used the same wiring diagram that you used in your expiation of Vintage vs Wiring: this is a bit confusing because in that video you have the capacitor wired from lug 3 of the volume to lug 2 of the tone pots (for the modern wiring) But here, you have the capacitor wired .from lug 2 of the tone pot directly to the ground. Is that correct? What gives?
I have wired three Les Pauls and an SG for independent volume. I have fiddled both ways on the vintage and modern setup. My problem is that I gat a lot of noise when I turn the volume all the way down. They are very quiet with the volume all the way up. What could cause this? I followed the schematics exactly.
Try this Add ground cable from vol to ground output jack
All pots are grounded as per schematics.
@@pjm329 other solution change the problem pots it mybe have damage when soldering or the sweeper and lug not contact all to carbon
Thank you! This helps a lot!
Tom, Your modern wiring diagram for this seems to have tone pot with lug two grounded. In modern vs vintage, modern tone grounded lug three. Wouldn't that be conjugational?
Hi there! Do you have a wiring diagram for Epiphone Special II? Im trying to put it together...
how to wiring 2 humbuckers 1 volume 1 tone 3 way switch? do you have that video?
Just watched it. ua-cam.com/video/tLlYy216By8/v-deo.html
thanks for the reply
I have a 2 HB with 2 vol and 1 tone guitar. Is there any benefit to using a dual-stacked pot for the single tone position in order to wire one pickup in vintage or modern and/or dependent or independent volume control?
hello , thanks for the video , i have a small precision to ask : on the example thats interesting me is the independant volume control for 2 volumes do you have to duplicate the wiring for the second volume pot ? thanks have a nice day
thanks if anyone replys to my question.
Hey don, is there a way to wire a led Paul to have Either: a volume for each switch position (3 volumes 1 tone) Or: the neck volume controls the neck and middle positions with the bridge volume naturally controlling the bridge? Thanks
hello breja tone works thanks for the inspirated video, hope you want to help me, i have 1humbucker bridge - hotrail midle - 1humbucker bridge pickup with 2volume pots & 1tone with coil tap/pushpull pots, all of pickup is have 5cable like seymour duncan , may i know the diagram wiring on typical 5way import swicht.., thanks before
I am having trouble finding a video on how to wire up 2 Humbuckers, 2 volume controls, 1 tone control and a 3 way toggle switch. Any ideas?
so... what ya wanna do is: 1) wire each pickup to their own pot 2) then wire each of those vol pot outputs to the switch. 3) then wire the tone control so it's connected to the output of the switch ... or you could even wire the tone pot to the output jack (the output jack may be closer to the tone pot so it'll be a shorter cable run or just plain easier to wire ). This way you achieve each exactly what you want.
I getting a ESP LTD EC-1000 with Piezo bridge. It has Master Volume Master Tone and Piezo Volume/Blend 3 way pick up selector a piezo/magnetic pickup and 2 jacks for piezo only and piezo/mag.. I would like to exchange the tone pot for a volume pot so I can have separate 2 independent controls for each pickup. How would I wire it with 3 way and piezo ?
Hay there buddy, was wanting to see if you could help myself and my luthier to figure out a wiring schamatic? I need one for 3 humbuckers with one tone, 3 push pull volumes for each pickup and then the seven way wiring you have done for the stratocaster. Think you could figure this out?
Email directly at: brejatoneworks@gmail.com
what i sometimes do with my sg is using the normal 3way switch as killswitch, without wire mods
i do this by turning the bridge pickup all the way on and turning the neck pickup not completely down, but like at 1,5.
if i go to the middle setting and slightly pull the switch up, but not make it 'click' to the neck position, you can use it as a kill switch!
(so by slightly moving your switch up/down)
i've heared that this is bad for you switch if you do it a lot, but my sg is an epiphone, so i don't worry too much about it. and in halve a year i've not found problems so far)
+Patrick Switches are cheap and easily replaceable. You really have to go nuts to hurt them. I would recommend that you replace the Epiphone box switch with a Switchcraft one though - they're better built.
Breja ToneWorks
thanks.
Nice, now i'm not afraid to do it on more expensive guitars.
mehh i'll replace my epiphone switch when it breaks
My volume and tone knobs on my epiphone also suck pretty bad.
my tone knobs do almos do nothing to the tone and then from 2 to one it suddenly kicks in and sounds like the tone knob is off.
I heared that 50's wiring gives the tone knobs more controll. Do i have any chance it hepls mine?
Do you happen to know if epiphone sg pups are splittable and do you know cheap/ semi cheap push pull pots that work ok?
Thanks a lot man!
Your videos help me out a lot
Have a good day :)
+Patrick I use the vintage wiring myself in every HB guitar I own - it will help for sure with your tone control. However - with that said... It's really hit or miss with the quality of the pots that Epiphone uses. I have had some Epis with pots that come in at 450k or lower which will just suck the tone out of your pickups. I also had some where the pots were 500k and above and they sound great and I didn't replace them. The only way to tell is to test them. If you haven't watched my video on testing pots for resistance and choosing quality pots, I'd highly recommend it. Most Epis have splitable pickups. From what you're describing - it sounds like you could use some new/better pots.
Breja ToneWorks
great, thanks
I have Project guitar witch have a HS pickups whit toggle switch. I wanna vol and tone, but the problem is that i don't know how to wire it. Can you give some help :D
I have a question! In vintage wiring doesn't the capacitor connect both pots rather than a jumper wire and wouldn't it be from lug 1 of the volume pot to lug 2 of the time pot?
Good Question...
Technically the lug on the Tone pot that the Capacitor is connected to does not matter. I move them around only to make it easier when I troubleshoot to see how it's wired. In reality though it will not matter.
What does matter is what lug it's connected to on the Volume pot. There are 3 reasons I used a Jumper in this video:
1: Most modern guitars are mass produced and the capacitor is already wired on the Pot for the assembler so it's more than likely the wiring that people will see when they open their guitar so I wanted to make it familiar to them.
2: A lot of first time guys who are modding guitars tend to not use a heat sink when soldering capacitors - meaning the apply too much heat and burn out the cap. You should use a small pair of alligator clips or something to help dissipate the heat. I'd hate for someone to spend money on high quality caps just to fry them. That's why I showed a jumper.
3: Dovetails on #2. The more you solder and unsolder/bend and rebend a cap the more likely it is to have a broken lead. Wire the cap once and use the jumper wire when modding.
Don
Breja ToneWorks thank you sir. You've changed my whole outlook on life and society.
mrpres17
If at first you don't succeed then maybe skydiving isn't for you. Word Up!
Thank you !
4:44 But how to get independent tone wiring?
What program do you use to do the cool diagrams? Thanks
+Andluth A combination of Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop and then Sony Movie maker.
Thanks!
I modded my '87 LP independant, but found the overall sound was muddy. Anybody else notice this?
Im have trouble figuring out duncan designed single coil stacked humbucker can anyone help???
Why I don't see tone capacitor.
Has anyone tried wiring the tone pot output to the volume pot input instead? (Reversed 50s/vintage)
Tone pots don't have an output per say... they go directly to ground. You are either coming off of lug 1 or lug 2 from the volume pot into either lug 2 or 3 on the tone pot and out directly to ground. if the volume goes to lug 2 then lug 3 goes to ground which is modern wiring and if the volume goes to lug 3 then lug 2 goes to ground which is vintage wiring.
Yes, yes, yes. I knew I was right. I bought a two humbucker ,guitar and thought it was broke because it has dependent volume controls. All my other guitars have independent volumes and I like that much better. Why the heck do they make them with dependent controls. I think thats bad.
You know, tradition, "vintage style", marketing...
The difference between the "dependent" and "independent" wirings is that with the former you get no signal to the input of the amp, as it is grounded successfully via guitar grounding, while with the latter, the amp actually sees the entire volume pot resistance as the source's output impedance, and amplifies noise picked up from the surroundings by internal wiring (the full pot resistance!) & cables. This is a Major flaw or the down side to the "independent" wiring compared to the "dependent" wiring. As always, there's a trade-off... I know it's a relatively old video, but, YOU SHOULD MENTION PROS & CONS IN YOUR VIDS OTHERWISE THEY WILL MAKE PEOPLE ASSUME ONE METHOD IS GOOD WHILE THE OTHER IS BAD, which is clearly not the case most of the time. Having said that, on a side note: "independent"+vintage (tone pot + series cap connected to output) might offer a solution - turning down both knobs gives a resistor and a capacitor in parallel, the cap shunts some AC to ground, thus reducing noise level...
I can’t wait to see you guys working together on your new webcast discussing guitar electronics and other topics of electronic artistry in music. You both have a lot to offer!
Rock & Roll!
Есть ли разница? Все равно звук пропадает. где мог я накосячить?