Laminate Sample #21: Infused Flax / Epoxy with Bcomp powerRibs
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- Опубліковано 19 сер 2020
- This Laminate Sample shows the combination of Bcomp Amplitex flax reinforcements, bio-based Sicomin epoxy resin and an interesting flax reinforcement product called powerRibs also from Bcomp. The sample is infused (not without incident!) and trimmed for weighing and measuring.
Note: the peel ply isn't a good idea with the powerRibs - it adds unnecessary resin and trouble. Bcomp suggests using bag (or release film and bag if you're worried about things sticking to the bag) only and using a heat gun to thermoform the bag to the powerRibs before you infuse. I should have listened to this advice but as with all these samples - I was playing at adding as many variables as possible!
Huge thanks to Gurit USA, US distributor for the Bcomp Amplitex and powerRibs products, for the samples!
For more information: www.gurit.com/Our-Business/Co...
Bcomp Amplitex Flax Reinforcements: www.bcomp.ch/
And the resin: Sicomin InfuGreen 810: www.sicomin.com/products/epoxy...
I love the way the flax looks and it has very useful mechanical properties - if not as stiff or strong as e-glass or carbon. The powerRibs is an interesting way to apply a stiffening grid without any core or complicated tooling. It is available in two "mesh" sizes - this is the larger one.
Given the low density of flax fiber, the fiber volume fraction vs. fiber weight fraction relationship is very different than with e-glass or even carbon. For a given fiber volume, the flax is half the weight of 'glass. When I measured out the resin, I took the fiber weight (about 200g) and doubled it (400g) to estimate the resin usage instead of just making 250g of resin like I would for e-glass.
And lets not forget my two big mistakes here: too small a bag led to careless sealing and cutting it close to the peel-ply. Not surprisingly I had a small leak that made a mess over time. One random fiber or peel-ply strand and you have a tiny leak just waiting to mess stuff up. These samples are teaching tools too - better to see me make a mistake and avoid doing it yourself!
Visit explorecomposites.com for more. - Навчання та стиль
I am working for Bcomp, nice to see people on youtube working with our material!
Small advise, try not to use peel ply on the surface, it has no real use if you don't want to glue something on it. Moreover you will minimize the resin used and the meniscus between the powerRibs and the substrate, thus maximizing the stiffness to weight ratio. Insider trick: you can heat gun the vacuum bag so it shrinks and matches well the powerRibs geometry. Looking forward to see your next project!
Its a neat product and I’m excited to try it on something thats an actual thing!
I learned about the heat gun bag trick after I laid this one up and can imagine that a lot less resin will be used that way!
@@ExploreComposites Got some flaxfibers sponsored by your swedish distributor. Do you perhaps know what the best supplier would be in Europe? Haven't been able to get hold of your power ribs yet. Would be amazing to build our next car in flax 😍
I have a project I'd like to use this material . Who in the US supplies it?
My new favorite composites channel... And thanks for sharing your lessons learned. Much appreciated. Keep it up 👍🍻
Thanks! I'm glad it's interesting - I'm sure learning a lot making the videos!
Excellent videos. I work in laminates and they are very useful to me. Thank you very much from Argentina.
Thank you for your kind encouragement!
This is cool! This flax might be the perfect material for my project. I hadn't heard of flax for laminating. Just now I searched the entire internet to find out more, but it seems the internet hasn't heard of it either! (Well, I did find one store selling something similar, and I messaged the Gurit people... I guess that's a good start.)
If you're in the US, Rock West Composites sells a 11oz twill. Easy Composites in the UK sells some too and ships international. I'm sure Gurit would sell you a roll, but I'm not sure about retail distribution. I'll try to find out.
Europe is way ahead of North America in the bio-composites thing!
@@melissahill7930 That's interesting! Never used hide glue before... coming up: Laminate Sample #42: Linothorax!
I’m in NY, I can’t seem to find Sicomin 810 for sale anywhere online in the US. There’s a distributor, but they don’t have 810, only Greenpoxy for snowboards.
Yes, it isn't easy! I bought this through T Composites (tcomposites.com) in NJ. They are (were?) a distributor... maybe the one you're already dealing with. It took a while to get for me, but I don't recall why. Maybe I got the last gallon! There are some alternatives. I understand Gurit now makes a high-bio-content epoxy but haven't used it.
Fascinating use of bio based materials. Thank you for the demo! What was the resin and where were you able to procure it from? Does it say whether it's the type of resin which breaks down under extended high temps? (Thinking of the compostable plastics which break down in commercial composting operations.)
The resin is Sicomin Infugreen 801 which is a partially bio-derived epoxy. It will probably break down under high temperature but much higher than even the hottest compost. This is not biodegradable by any stretch but if you left it outside for a few hundred years it would probably disappear unless you looked really close - the UV would get the epoxy.
Hi! Thanks so much for the excellent video. Were you happy with the strength of the sheet? And do you think it is possible to do a hand layup reproducing what you did here with vacuum infusion? I cannot imagine this turning out well with the powerribs. Unfortunately I do not have access to the necessary equipment for vacuum infusion, hence the question.
I didn’t do any mechanical measurements but it is much stiffer with the powerRibs than without. Flax is hard to do wet layup with. I tried but it was very voidy and puffed with air. Can probably improve methods with changes but infusion is great - especially with the powerRibs.
Well ya but what does it w
Which underground do you prefer for a shiny finish? I can think of an aluminium plate...
In addition to that, do you recommend any mould wax for an easy release? Or wasn't that even a problem?
Nice video!
Wax is always a good simple choice for a mold release, but it can be a problem where heat is involved and after a time you get build-up. Aluminum plate is excellent, but it's expensive! On these samples I think I used a teflon release film for the surface of a laminated work table. It doesn't require additional release - because teflon. Its great, but leaves a texture and is expensive - and doesn't handle contours well.
What is that hose clamp you were using. I like it. I could use it where I work.
It is a Squee-Zee from DDCompound. Not the cheapest but very handy - and throttle-able.
hi weird question, but does the material leave itchy splinters like fibre glass and carbon fibre?
No, not the same itch but there can still be resin-coated splinters. Because the fiber is so much softer it is much more pleasant to work with.
4.30
Have you tried the grid as an internal layer?
I haven't. My concern is that it would be very hard to get the top layer of fabric to go up and over each rib gracefully without a lot of bridging. A short-fiber chopped reinforcement might work well though.
@@ExploreComposites Ah true. The bridging, at the expense of a little extra weight might add significant torsional rigidity (much like bead rolling on a flat automotive panel). Hopefully vacuum bagging will minimise the effect. Might be worth experimenting with
TLDR:
1.) Don't use a peel-ply with this stuff.
2.) Make your vacuum bag plenty big enough.
3.) Make sure you don't trap any fibers under your barrier tape. It won't end well if you do.
4.) Don't be lazy.
Yes - spot on! Please feel free to summarize more videos. Maybe I should do it in the descriptions using your format!
Hi there and thanks for the great video and all the great stuff you do! However, I see the powerRibs have somewhat misshaped for some reason - how about you drop us an email at media@bcomp.ch and we make sure to get you some new powerRibs. Also, as "olhey" mentioned below, you can get a better result without the ply - it's a perk versus carbon fibres with less consumables! Look forward to be in touch with you, and never hesitate if you have any questions. Keep up the great work!
Thank you for your offer - I'm excited to try using the powerRibs for something that isn't just a flat panel - and will definitely skip the peel-ply next time! My "sample" was from an offcut that had been around so it had probably been folded and handled roughly - and I didn't make much effort to make it nice.
I'm going to check you your videos on how to use it and learn more before trying a real project. It is super interesting stuff and I am impressed by how much stiffness it adds to a thin laminate!
@@ExploreComposites That's great to hear! Always feel welcome to be in touch if we can help in any way :) All the best and keep making good stuff!
BLURRED
The video? Sorry - I'm still not much of a video editor!