Twin hopper part 8 (5kg payload full send)
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- I think the constant small yaw might have been caused by none of the control surface robart hinges being glued in properly. They are just poked in and held by friction, and the right aileron sometimes slips out a little, causing it to angle up a bit.
- Розваги
0:55 if this is an intentional joke, I am impressed
has to be. Very well delivered.
😅😅😅😅😅😅😂😂😂😂😂😂
“As long as the total height of your cocaine, I mean ......” that cracked my ribs buddy 😂😂😂😂😂
Interesting topography in your area but beautiful looking farmland. Great videos!
Flight time's great. I was worried about the landing with the extra inertia, but it was a thing of beauty.
A quick test for the yaw issue would be to switch the motors.
Haha, should becalled the Twin Cocaine Mule :-)
Rocket assisted launch for higher payloads on that runway perhaps? 😀
Well done.
It’s surprising how little wing loading actually affects performance other than the speed it happens at.
May I suggest a simple foot release system for launch so you can get to full power before release to aid in takeoff?
Something as simple as string tied to your ankle and looped through a hook on the plane and back to stand on it, then lift foot to launch.
Well done.
It’s surprising how little wing loading actually affects performance other than the speed it happens at.
May I suggest a simple foot release system for launch so you can get to full power before release to aid in takeoff?
Something as simple as string tied to your ankle and looped through a hook on the plane and back to stand on it, then lift foot to launch.
Now you just need to swap the pellets out for 21700s. You could fly it to Tokoroa.
Impressive! Your trims seems to counteract each other? The ailerons trimmed for right turn, while the rudder for left. Apart from that, not much thrust difference is possible before a lot of trim is required. It can be difficult to detect by listening or measuring diff power, but try placing the plane on a ball bearing fitted disk or a low friction surface and apply power. That will reveal any differences.
I missed the aileron trim.
Wonder if autopilot was having a fight with itself
Or
Did the wing warp under increased load?
Well spotted :) As I mentioned in the description, I'm now wondering if the hinge pulling out was part of the issue. Naturally I had actually trimmed left roll, and I only realized after turning the camera off that the aileron was the opposite of what I was expecting to see. Perhaps the landing jolted the hinge out.
@@iforce2d
Oops, yea, there are descriptions when you open them up.
I think you've probably got another 2-3kg of payload in there which is a testament to the awesome design and craftsmanship of this platform. The real limiting factor with such a high payload in my experience becomes takeoff and landing!
The original goal was that the plane should carry its own weight in payload, but that was when I thought the plane would be 5kg. To do that now would require 6.7kg payload. It might work for a short hop just to be able to say I did it, but would really stretch the power system and maybe even the wing too. If I can be bothered driving down to xjet's place I might give it a try.
Yes it's amazing how the actual flight was not much affected, but the launch and landing clearly were. At the time I didn't notice but comparing footage of landings with no payload, this came in much faster!
Ветер не мешает полётам? Я так понимаю в горах он может резко меняться. Какая целевая нагрузка для самолёта? Может попробовать загрузить в него конфет россылью и высыпать их над толпой на празднике?
Just beautiful! Maybe you can attach a thin rope to that temporary gear, so it doesn’t continue all the way down the hill?
Still flying the i6 ❤
Nice job Chris
Why not use batteries for the payload? That way you could stay aloft for a couple of weeks! Great job, Chris. Maybe, with the great runway, Big Red might come back to life…
Why not use batteries??? the answer is here 0:54!
what power system did you use motor kv and propsize ?
It just beautiful and awesome.
The video thumbnail really shows the scale of this plane. This and when you are up close the the propellers.
As transition to manual and dropping flaps on approach (7:47) the speed jumps from 53 kph to 95 kph. Guess you're not concerned about stressing the flaps at higher speeds. ;)
Regarding the pitch porpoising it may be worth experimenting experimenting while higher up with setting flaps at various degrees while maintaining 65-75 kph. Speed on approach will effect the angle of turbulence from main wing trailing back.
Those sticks at the lower end of the landing strip (8:18, 8:22) always worry me. Placing a cone over, or an orange ribbon could help as visual reminder.
While preparing for the flight I was a little concerned about load on the flaps, but then completely forgot about it during the flight. The brief period of RTL had let it climb up, and it was not ideal to drop that much height so quickly but I was prioritizing not doing a go-around. I suppose it was a good test of the wing strength to be doing that with full payload, unfortunately the SD card log was a zero byte file so we'll never know what the g-load was.
In one of my earlier flights I tried various flap settings at various speeds and it seems that any more than a tiny bit of flaps will start to induce the porpoising. Once when I landed in FBWA it was able to deal with it quite well, and landed very smooth, but with much less control on the flare. If I had a nice big runway where I could take as long as I like to set it down I would probably just use FBWA all the time, but here I have to thread it between the fences so it requires a bit more... dynamic approach :)
Those fence sticks are easier to see irl than in the video. On this day the wires between them were laid down because the excavator guys drove in from that side so I only had to worry about the stick and not the wires. Maybe one day I will put some landing gear on this, I'm sure the farmer will be ok with me laying down the wires like that to land on the concrete. Would be cool to do an FPV landing coming into that concrete strip!
@@iforce2d Realize you probably worried more about with low battery sagging and lack of climb performance if needed to go around. The issue with yaw probably added a bit of extra discomfort.
Was referring more to the drag forces on the flaps at speed (the hinges) rather than G-forces from lift.
Awesome video. If thats your house it looks like its falling apart. Beautiful views though!
awesome!
BTW iforce2d, have you become a flat earther yet? If not I suggest viewing the 13 part series _what on earth happened_ in my about to learn how the earth is not a globe
Try static loading the wings to see the flex and thrust direction.
Might be getting some weird induced angles.
Very nice. Change of subject. I have an old video somewhere that shows how to send power over 2.4ghz signal. using a radio transmitter and a diy receiver light up an LED. Have you heard of it? can you make it?
Hahaha, nice slip of the tounge! I wonder if it would yaw with no throttle just on glide? If it only yaws on throttle, it's either one motor pushing more than the other or it's the mount angle and the torque of the motors spinning is pulling to the right. Full scale aircraft angle their engines away from the pull to compensate.
I think the motors/props are counter rotating, so the P-factor (check "critical engine") shouldn't be a concern.
Wing warp under increased load?
Careful not to lose a brick aloft anywhere over those diggers... a midday sniff of the yayo might make their operators go all "Robot Wars" on you, and the victor might come after your robots. He's liable to see your CNC as a massive threat to him and his shovel's manhood and rip through your garage mosquito netting.
Is your house supposed to look like it’s been acting in the Wizard of Oz?
You're living the life!!! 😊😊😊
You've ready gave me a passion on modeling
Your trim was right aileron and left rudder. Huh????
Well spotted :) As I mentioned in the description, I'm now wondering if the hinge pulling out was part of the issue. Naturally I had actually trimmed left roll, and I only realized after turning the camera off that the aileron was the opposite of what I was expecting to see. Anyway I might have to bring this to your fine establishment if I want to try any more load than this!
0:56 😂😂😂
I was scrolling looking to see if anyone noticed that 😂. Now we know the real reason for payload tests 😂
@@r1m.dog78 😂😂😂
could a esc re-calibration help for the yaw drift ? or maybe are you already on dshot.
You trimmed Left Rudder and Right Aileron, Surely those 2 things are fighting each other.? Or something is very out of whack, Maybe.... FC needs calibrating, Motor mounted on the Piss, ESCs need calibrating, Different Prop pitch/size, Rudder mounted on the wonk, One wing heavier than the other are a few possibilities worth checking . Also Why Manual mode for landing, and not letting the FC help keep things nice and flat when you need it most ? Needs a paint job or at least some Stripes which would aid in orientation . happy landings
Well spotted :) As I mentioned in the description, I'm now wondering if the hinge pulling out was part of the issue. Naturally I had actually trimmed left roll, and I only realized after turning the camera off that the aileron was the opposite of what I was expecting to see. Perhaps the landing jolted the hinge out. The yaw issue was not happening until the last two flights, so not sure if any of your suggestions would be the cause.
If you've ever tried landing in FBWA versus manual you'll find that there is much less agility and control, and getting the flare just how you intended is unlikely. You can see an attempt at landing in FBWA in a previous flight, after which I decided landings would be in manual. Also because I'm landing into an upward slope so if I needed to go around it might have to be quite a sudden climb which is easier to achieve in manual.
ua-cam.com/video/0_bcUFK3jl8/v-deo.html
The FBWA did help with the porpoising though.
Another thing about manual is it gives you a better feel for how the plane is reacting. For example if it's nose heavy, you would need to have the pitch stick pulled back a lot just to fly level and it would make you nervous. FBWA hides all that, so you would be blissfully unaware that you're nearly at the limit of elevator travel until you suddenly needed it.
@@iforce2d Yeah that makes sense, but I guess once its ballanced out right for CG, and all trimmed correct that shouldn't be an issue anymore. I've since watched most of the build vids on this plane. I was wondering, could it be that the inconsitancy you mention in the foam is making something twist, or some flex in one wing more than the other, now you added a lot more weight, and thats why its showing the yaw issue in the loaded up flights. just a thought. Nice project though. still think it needs some paint though lol .. happy landings
So how kilos can it hold ? Asking for a friend ! Lol
Hey Chris...I'd forgotten you had this channel. Pretty impressed with your wide array of skills and workmanship...the tank thingy is pretty cool
Hi Phil !
Yeah it's nice to live out in the country with so much space to play with. I never imagined I would one day own *two* welders, or a lathe. Quite the opposite of Tokyo :)
0:54 So that's why you built it 😂
Hura. Coke cane safe 😂
Cocaine 🤣
Chuck 5kg of batteries in it, pack a lunch and maybe dinner and see how long it will fly :)
That was originally the plan, but not sure if I can actually be bothered doing it. It would be interesting to find the sweet spot of max flight time though. There must be a point where adding more battery reduces the flight time instead of increasing it. The lipo is 154Wh, and if batteries are 18650s then assume each 1kg added is about 222Wh extra. So far the flight time vs payload graph with 154Wh pack looks like:
0kg - 35min
2kg - 27min
3.6kg - 19min
5kg - 16min
Assuming the flight time increases linearly with Wh, using the same weight of battery instead of wood pellets would result in:
0kg - 35 min
2kg - 105 min
3.9kg - 118 min
5kg - 131 min
So it probably wouldn't result in the amazing flight time one might envision at first when thinking of a 5kg battery :) There is a chance I might make a 4S10P li-ion pack to try the 2kg configuration and see how well it matches that prediction, but I would not be making any packs larger than that. I have the cells ready but I would probably only use it a few times and then want to pull it apart again.
hmm... I just realized those calculations are based on ending the flight at around 3.5V per cell, which would not be necessary with li-ion.... if I can configure the ESCs to not cut out until under 3V I will definitely give it a try.
That's a very pretty aeroplane Chris well done
😂
Did you say Coca..... at 0:56 🤣🤣🤣😬
I love this plane really ❤️
Na Na Na.....Cocaine....
what a great landing strip, where is this place?
New Zealand
Very Good Effort .....well done......and you can burn your cocaine I mean wood pallets this winter
Can the yaw to the right be caused by a sort of side slip induced by the two CW rotating propellers (as seen from the rear)?
About that pitch during landing, it looks like you have some thermal activity at that construction site. lines up pretty well, My guess is that this little thermal patch gets it's air from the valley, combined causing a little tailwind but most important some thermal wind pushing up that sharp ledge you fly over during final.
This hypothesis is easy to test: next time avoid flying over and close past that construction patch.
Isn't the trim of the trim of the aillerons opposite of the rudder? Right ailleron pushing down --> right roll. But rudder is trimmed to the left, so it's essentially side-slipping. Mybe just put the ESCs on different channels and create a "trim" mixer, so you can adjust it in flight and try that first before trimming the actual surfaces. At least the option is probably a good idea anyway, even if it isn't the cause (might be, might not be, who knows).
Edit: only afterrwards saw the ocmment by Skyris, guess I didn't scroll far ehough before commenting, my bad.
I wonder if your payload was a little "off" laterally? That would create yaw/roll requiring compensation. It's also possible the longitudinal CofG was a bit better the second flight , which would increase aerodynamic performance, allowing increased flight duration because the plane would have been in a better flight attitude & thus need less power to maintain equilibrium.
Dude, your video's are good stuff. Keep u pthe great content.
5kgs and it looks like it can take more. Seems to indicate that the lift doesn't take a very large portion of the power.
Might need to recalibrate these ESCs to get the pull to the right out
Another great video and how was your linkage is it tight
And congratulations on hitting 70,000 subs take care Chris
I think you should consider landing in FBWA....As you put it in manual it showed signs of spinning, looked out of control and unstable....The pitching problem, I think you can cure this by increasing the wing incedence a little....The right aileron trim and left rudder trim made no sense at all...🤔🤔😳😳😳🇬🇧
Unless your plane is unstable by design it should be stable and controllable in its entire flight envelope especially in parts that are required for emergency procedures like landing.
It looked unstable because I was flying line of sight 1km away and lost orientation, that's all. Regarding the trim, well spotted :) As I mentioned in the description, I'm now wondering if the hinge pulling out was part of the issue. Naturally I had actually trimmed left roll, and I only realized after turning the camera off that the aileron was the opposite of what I was expecting to see. Perhaps the landing jolted the hinge out.
@@iforce2d Yes, I realised at 1km you're not going to see the plane well enough to fly it LOS....Had you been under the Goggles, the instability would have been very evident. May I suggest using a tacho and check motor RPMS to at least rule it out. The hinges need gluing, if you don't want to lose a valuable plane...I'm guessing FBWA is rather like Angle Mode?...You should be able to increase roll and pitch overide angles?..Manual Mode looked very hairy....lol....🤔😳😳🇬🇧😀
Tip : swap the motors and ESC's over see if she turns left ?
It's looking great. It may take another one or two kilos more.
👍💪✌️
Pitch instability can indicate too high a speed to land.
Hahahhaha, cocaine! I'm so glad I'm not the only one thinking "why aren't cartels doing this? they could just be sending everything over borders with these planes and be much safer!"
@
o0julek0o : The probably are!
1:52 indeed
Your servos are undersized for the mass and airspeed the Twin Hopper flyies. Pleeeeease upgrade them before you loose all of your hard work!!!
Only the flap servos deal with any major load, and they would have broken in this video if they were going to break at all. At 7:55 the plane dropped 60 meters in 10 seconds and pulled up at 96km/h while weighing almost 12kg. Unfortunately the log file was not written correctly so we'll never know what the g-load was, but I would not expect the plane to be seeing much more than that in most usage.
Can you add in elevator compensation when you flip the flap on in arduplane? I know you can in inav and it helps a lot for the proposing.
Yes.
Yes, that would help with the initial 'ballooning' when flaps are changed and also keep trim closer to center stick. But it doesn't help the porpoising, which (I think) is caused by interaction between the horizontal stab and air coming off the flaps. It just won't stay where you put it and wants to diverge either up or down.
@@iforce2d
I was thinking more an angle of attack problem. As I’m not enough aoa.
Flaps push the centre of lift forward if I remember right and that makes it suddenly tail heavy.
But I seem to remember higher aoa brings centre of pressure rearward.
lol