This Rally Monster and its Road Going Sister Were SO BAD Citroen Had to Buy Them Back!
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- Опубліковано 1 лип 2024
- This is a story of misguided loyalty and incredible failure, the Citroen BX 4TC achieved nothing in Group B Rally, it was slow, unreliable and only ever managed to finish one race.. and yet it is now really sought after by collectors. The road going version was even worse...
Thanks very much to The Saunders Collection! check it out on Instagram here: @the_saunders_collection
Gary Nicholls (Engineer): garypnicholls@hotmail.co.uk - Авто та транспорт
The road going version is strangely attractive...it looks like something out of Space 1999
its ugly beautiful isn't it, it looks like something out of the last starfighter to me.
It'd got that Delorean look about it...
Or like the cars on cyberpunk
It looks like it belongs into a star wars rebel base!
I love it!
The road going version has aged really well, I think it looks great.
I tend to agree with you. The road going version is pretty modern in it’s design. In certain aspects not far from some of today’s electric cars.
It looks more futuristic than what they build today. I would drive it. Love the design.
I see eyeballsintheanus is a common disease those days
@@apashe974 yes, back then there wasn’t advanced optics available so headlights were eighter square or round but they tried to give more 3D form to the front, resulting in those weird looking front ends. Yes they could have given the lens some form but I guess in the case of cars such as the Quattro or these even more rare ones, production numbers were quite low and homologating headlights isn’t exactly cheap. So they were basically cutting corners to save money.
It's very futuristic but fantastically ugly
Certainly the least successful Group B car, however it WAS a Group B rally car - and is therefore - royalty.
Didn’t know it retained the suspension!
No matter how shit, still a royal legend
@@satan1189 More or less...i mean its not that legendary as Audi or Lancia.
It's royal shit and I love it
@@joe125ful neither is the opel manta 400 but that shits still royally badass
Agree 💯 and rare as rocking horse shit !!!
The BX was a great car, I had 4 of them, bit light at the front end prone to wheel spin but the 1.7l turbo diesel could put some modern motors to shame.
1.9 turbo diesel.
@@e28forever30
No on BX it was XUD7TE : 1769cm3
XUD9TE (1905cm3) had the same output but never was fitted on the BX
@@Cuss911 rest 4 bx 4tc because the Factory destruct all the other
"the BX was a great car, *i had 4 of them* "
@@therealslimshady3662 2 month ago i buy a red Gti 16v Phase 2 from 1990 with only 82000 km i own a white one in the 90s these cars where great and much faster then a Golf and today its pure joy to drive such a light car with only 1000 kgs
It’s not fair to say the hydro-pneumatic suspension was untested in rallying - the DS had quite a lot of success, especially in longer distance events/rough conditions
Yep, great video and brilliant to see it shown off - well done Jack. But as Emma points out, the hydropneumatic suspension system had been extensively proven in rallying previously, through the DS, GS, SM and CX platforms.
The hydraulic system has never been successful in modern rallying. Because if that single systems fails, you lose brakes, suspension, steering etc
It's a disasterous idea for a Rally car !
Which is what happened...
@@edwardfletcher7790 couldn’t agree more that it’s never been successful, it’s not as of the DS won the Monte-Carlo Rally 3 times, the Tulip Rally, European Rally Championship , the Acropolis rally, the Liege-Sofia-Liege Marathon to name but a fraction…
@@DarkKnightwing75 Did you totally ignore the part where I said "modern rallying" Yeah.....
@@edwardfletcher7790 You're right mate, you really can't compare group B to the era in which the DS competed.
Other than the Hydro suspension - the actual mechanical layout of the car wasn't that dissimilar to a Quattro bar the lack of 1 engine cylinder - the Simca engine used was an immensely strong unit and could withstand very high degrees of boost - Peugeot also used it in turbcharged form in oversea market 505s. What with the Peugeot 205t16 totally dominating Group B at the time - it always confused me why PSA bankrolled this I'll fated project - especially as it killed off Talbot UK's potential Group B follow up to the Sunbeam Lotus - An Esprit turbo based mid engined Talbot Horizon - of which at least one prototype still remains.
The Quattro had the right number of differentials.
@@2kcars507 It did indeed. 👍
I heared that the main reason for such mechanical layout was indeed to mimick the one of the Audi Quattro which was so successful. Citroen used the DS/SM transmission turned 180 degrees.
Euro 505 Turbo had the same engine. Chrysler/simca 180.
I must admit I thought the Group B Horizon prototypes had all been crushed.
The Chrysler 2.3Litre was too heavy and under powered for Gr.B Rally. However, the Rallycross version of the BX with the T16 engine was a chrono killer with Jean-Luc Pailler at the steering wheel.
Good video but the Citroen hydraulics had already been put to good use in rallying with the DS, SM, and CX. The hydraulics weren’t the problem
Right you are! All the mentioned had their share of rallying success!
Came here to say the same thing. This car's problem came down to weight and differentials.
Same here! Especially the Tour du Senegal with CXs is impressive, multiple CXs finished first, most other brands just didn’t make it at all.
I actually think there’s a big difference between the BX and all other HP cits that we’re successful: the BX has McPherson struts, the others double wishbones (front). The latter have a lot more travel.
Running high pressure tubes under the car doesnt go well with a rocky rally stage.
8:08 explain how this wasn't the problem?
doesn't matter if it wasn't the perfect group b car. The fact is that it's still from the group b era and should be cherished.
Most probably this car but certainly the works car of Phillippe Wambergue (Citroen's second works driver) were laying in a French scrapyard waiting to be demolished,
However the scrapyard owner knew Mr Phillippe Wambergue gave him a call one day and said hey, I got a car here with your name on it. Mr. Wambergue got there and stood eye to eye with his last rally car from Citroen he drove as a works driver. His car was complete except for the seats and a track rod that had been removed and he still owns his own ex-works car I believe, (I have not seen him for a log time). Mr Wambergue told me Citroen choose the Audi Quattro lay out and used the 8 valve engine of the Talbot Tagora which was also used in some Peugeot 505 models.
As the budgets were very tight they decided to improve the cars while rallying, they knew they'd meet with problems along the way.
After the Acropolis, Group B were banned and Citroen were very happy to throw in the towel, I have a picture somewhere of a transporter carrying works cars, some were even not finished at Heuliez ( the carrossier who built the 4TC's for Citroen) on their way to the crusher. It is a miracle that these two cars survived, I don't know of a third Acropolis example but the works drivers were Andruet (left on the picture you show in the video and Mr Wambergue on the right) I do know that Mr Wambergue has or had these 2 BX 4TC ex-works cars. But let's face it, just like the Metro 6R4 the BX 4TC was not given enough time and money to mature into the Group B circus.
“The last nail on the head for Citroen“ 🤣
Jack please never script your videos, your off the top of your head comments and spontaneous observations are what make them so watchable. I think I could watch you review paint dry and enjoy it!
Great video and really interesting subject. I actually love the look of the road car. Imagine turning up to cars and coffee in that! 👌🏻😎
hi i'm french, i'm practicing my english a lot, but there is one sentence in your comment that I don't understand. even when I google translate it. what does "paint dry" means ?
That's mean something incredibly boring, like watching paint drying on the wall
@@jrr667 it’s a British saying: “like watching paint dry” to mean something really boring. Jack’s videos are entertaining regardless of the content! So even if he did a video about watching paint dry, it would be interesting!
Love the look of the car. The road version looks awesome. I really love the Bertone designed cars, and apparently Marcello Gandini designed this car. He also designed cars for Gruppo Bertone. All their cars look like something from a 70's sci fi movie.
One of these (a roadgoing version) arrived midday at Radwood PNW (Tacoma, WA, USA) 2019.
All the true car people went nuts, and quickly descended upon that pristine example for a closer look.
Amazing piece of history!
Ironically, this Radwood show was on a museum lawn directly across the street from the Tacoma Dome, starting point of the very final Grp B event ever, Olympus Rally, December 1986.
I drove the car there that day. It truly is a group B oddity. My lest favorite group B car to drive, but also my favorite as well.
What a odd machine. We have to love Citroen for what they done to the car world
Take care Jack and Best Wishes for a Merry Christmas to you and your Family! Stay Safe and Stay Healthy, all the best of health, happiness, joy and continued success in the New Year! ❤🙏❤
Very cool video Jack, I like the way you like and tell stories about old French cars even the most disastrous ones like this BX 4TC , great !
He's got a life size Bburago model shelf going on there! Lovely collection.
I wish my friend Dane was still around to see this. He genuinely loved citroens and I know he'd of certainly of loved to of watched this. R.i.P brother x
Some cars are just not supposed to be rallied. To attempt to make a BX rally is like taking a donkey to The Grand National.
🤣🤣🤣
A great story, from a time where people just took risks and tried out new ideas, and they didn't care if they were different!
It still happens occasionally, the ill-fated FWD Nissan GT-R Le Mans prototype.
& the Delta wing race car that also had Nissan behind it.
The Road Going version looks amazing! Never seen one before until now so thanks for showing and another superb video
I had always wondered about these. Fascinating story Jack - thanks for making this. It would have been fun to go for a run in a road going example.
That went very HubNut then. I love the look of the road going car. It's just so Citroën. Really great video Jack. Happ Cristmas to everyone here. Have a great time and take care. Best wishes.
These are so cool. Failures or not. I love Group B.
Very interesting video. I am a classic Citroën fan, but I did not know this chapter of Citroën's competition history. What an ungainly beast that homologation version was, especially next to a regular BX. Thanks for filling a gap in my knowledge. Cheers from Canada.
Thanks for the video. I think that road version looks really cool!
The most brilliant video of 2021, thanks for sharing.
Very happy to see an amazing vid on this sick ride! Still would look amazing inside a living room!
Absolutely fascinating. Thanks Jack. Have a lovely Christmas
I used to love watching the old Group B rally's, nothing compares to it for excitement and outright danger! Can't say I remember these cars though. Certainly a strange looking beast. But nice to see that Citroen missed one or two when they tried to wipe them from existence.
Very interesting. Thanks Jack!
This is definitely a car that raced at Acropolis rally. Just after the driver's door there is a sticker of the Greek Citroën importer as well as a sticker indicating 120, this was the "120 United Furniture Factories", a company that offered their yard for the finish of the rally in the 80s-early 90s.
I was 10 years old at that time...
Thumbs up for all Citroëns of that era!
Great video. I was lucky enough to see some at Citroen's museum years ago and all the Visas including prototypes (I used to compete in one)
Interesting video.
Never heard of this considering Peugeot were quite successful in rallying.
First thing I thought when I saw this was mini-Quattro!
Having no centre diff may not necessarily be a handicap if one could drift the car round corners,(Scandanavian flick) + Simplicity equals reliability..?
Ooookay perhaps not lol.
It does seem the engineering department behind the scenes of this BX probably had a legacy "parts bin" allocation rather than any new expensive bespoke technology.
The rev counter looks like it's out of an 80s Skoda..
Still, quite like the road version - especially the wheels.
The road car has that [exotic] Delorean look/Feel about it.
Utilising the hydro suspension not such a bad idea. As any weaknesses in the system would be highlighted in the rallying thus making the system more robust on the road cars...(in theory)?
Good stuff.👍
Dad had a few of the MI16 powered standard Citroen BX's over the years. I used to borrow them occasionally if my car was off the road, and my overwhelming memory of them was how well they handled uneven road surfaces. They felt a lot more refined than any car in it's price range should have.
I tried to find a BX GTi 4x4 as a project car a couple years back, But it seems that here in the UK, they've become quite collectable, and the prices have gone skywards like a home sick angel !!! :(
That's my kind of car collection! What a legend.
Another great video Jack,👍👍.
Really interesting stuff Jack. Stopped me working. Great stuff, keep up the excellent work. Rgds for the season.
Great video. Really interesting story on a car that, although I’ve been a pretty avid fan of rallying since the 80s, I had never heard of. Thanks.
Thank you very much for showing us this unique car! 😊
Enjoyed that Jack, I knew about this car but didn’t realise any were left 👍
It does seem to have some Greek stuff written on the side.
I’m glad there is someone out there to love it.
Well , I never knew that existed, thank you for that insight today Jack.
Thanks for that, merry Christmas! I saw a few of the group B monsters in Wales and Yorkshire back in the day and I knew of this car but didn’t know it’s back story.
Be great if you can do a feature on each car in that collection.
That is my lottery winning dream to have one of every group B car, road or competition version
I recently saw the road going version of this car at the Lane Motor Museum in Nashville Tennessee. Absolutely bonkers looking car.
Great video Jack, really interesting. I recall one of these Citroens gracing the cover of Performance Car along with the other Group B contenders back in the 80s but I never knew much about their history. I'd love to see you do some more Group B/rally car stuff.
What a lovely hens tooth. Bravo sir. It's a pity the owner didn't have the road going version for comparison( I sense he could afford it).
Fascinating cars and impressive history, great presentation, thank you very much Jack :)
Excellent video and such an interesting story, thank you Sir! :)
Good god. Even it's own mother wouldn't love that car! Very interesting video Jack.
It looks awesome! Cone on, it's not like the Quattro was a looker in Group B guise either!
Hello and congrats for your amazing video!Yea i m Greek and i can confirm by reading the decals,that this is the acropolis rally car!!!I was achild back then and i even remember them!!!Happy new year
Fantastic content jack, loved it thx 👍 😀
I had no idea that this existed 🤔
👍 for uploading this and for the dreaded algorithms. Peace 👊
Superb video of a fascinating car. Thank you
Epic machines, love the grandiose tragedy of these things. Great film Jack.
Better than Top Gear, would love to see the other cars in the collection. Keep these coming 👍
Such an awesome bit of kit. We saw you today on the m25. The bismerc is quite a distinctive car 🤣. We were going to wave and say hi, but you looked like you were having a nap at the wheel and we didn't want to wake you lol.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 was just on my way back from filming another car!!
Great insight into the cars history .
I like the road version of the 4TC, very dramatic styling, I think they used those alloys on the CX 25gti, and I had a C4 that was based on the WRC winner in the mid noughties.
The road going version looks like it could do a stint in cyberpunk. Awesome looking car.
You could do a series of videos on the group b cars with their road going versions. It would be a great watch.
I had two BX diesel estates which I overloaded on a regular basis. Awesome cars. Sadly the last one set itself on fire due to a short circuit next to the common rail fuel line which melted and burned causing catastrophic damage under the bonnet. I did eventually manage to put the fire out with copious handfuls of long grass! I can recommend it for a diesel fire. It cooled the fire down and starved it of oxygen.
Thank you for sharing these two oddities.
Thanks for a great video and have a great Christmas and New Year
Excellent content. Keep it coming.
Misguiding title: "Citroën had to buy them back" - Citroën wanted to get it of them all, but they was not forced to per se. Misguiding summary: "only ever managed to finish one race" - they actually did 3 races in total and then Group B was actually already doomed by the death caused by Group B cars in Portugal and Corsica; finished 6th in Sweden; clearly the car was not a succes story but it had no time to develop.
Jack, fantastic video. Never knew about this car before. Keep up the great work!
I completely forgot about this Jack. Thanks for the entertainment. 👍🏼
Very interesting and a nice bit of history especially the Group B which was awesome 👏
Love the 4x4 chevron badge on the bonnet, very clever
It looks even more like the Reliant FW11 that the BX design was based on with the body kit and frontal treatment!
I thought You are going to replace the Tomato with this one :D Would've been a brave move
The Greek decals of the sponsors took me back in memory lane... Nice review!
Thank you Sir Merry Christmas to you and all
Oh I like that!
Cheers Jack, weird and interesting. Beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that, love it.
Happy Christmas Jack, see you in the new year 😎
Seen one flat out at the Eiffel Rally few years back, best place to see rare group B stuff, even seen the even rarer Toyota MR2 ( which was even less successful than the citroen as it never got to see an event) hope it’s back on this year as missed two years and it usually runs through my brothers village
One of my favourite rally cars, it is so unique, looks great and has an awesome history, I heard of one being hidden in a lock-up in Paris because the Citroen Mechanic couldn’t bare to see it crushed as instructed by the company.
This was a really fascinating piece & i can see the point totally from the owners perspective, but it is best described entirely by the age old adage..."a face only a mother could luv" lol
Thanks for watching Chap!!
Great video. I never knew these even existed....and I'd consider myself a rally fan from back in the day... I don't know, I think they look kinda cool.... So ugly, they're pretty, perhaps... And what a collection that chap seems to have. All my childhood dreams in one garage. Thanks again for the great video.
The Quattro also was nose heavy, the engine is almost aligned with the headlights.
....and still is, up to now, that is, the proper ones - not those with Haldex "R2D2"-s in the back.... the only differrence being, if the back is helped by a sport diff, that helps understeer a bit overdriving the outer wheel
Brilliant video Jack! Long long time since I’ve seen either of these in print never mind video 👍
Great video. Very informative!
I wish you hadn't mentioned your conk; I can't help but focus on it now 🤥 😂
🤣 conk-gate.
I saw an exemplar of the street version half a year ago in the car museum in Reims, France.
At the time I didnt know what it was, despite of having a good knowledge about anything sporty and about motorsports.
Back in the 80's the Patrick Motors Collection had a road version on display, it had extra small square lights, I was quite smitten by it.
Citroën learnt it's lessons and went on to win 9 World championships in a row on the hands of Sebastian Loeb. More than any other manufacturer at that time or since.
I suspect the engineering department behind the build of this BX 4 were hampered by a legacy "parts bin" allocation rather than any bespoke(expensive) new technology.
I thought Lancia won the most world championships in rallying..??
Something oddly good looking about this BX
Love this content 👍
Perhaps it sounds weird but I like the road version's retro look.
Thanks Jack, what an oddity, but interesting story, thank you!
Very good video.
Thank you.
I have actually seen one of these, long time ago, a retired Citroen dealer in the Lot region had one. Mid 90s at a guess, I did some work for him and he showed me some odd bod Citroen's he had kept in the old dealership next to his house.
Great video, very informative, thank you!
Thank you!!
My grandpa had a bx 16v that he bought in 1988 he still has it. Beautiful car
I love the Group B cars, they look like if a car and the space shuttle had babies.
This and the mid-engined Moskvitsh prototype are my favourites, so many weird ones were designed in the 80s.
I found an old magazine from 1986 where these Citroens were taking part in a couple rallies, they really didn´t do too well.
They were critizised of the long front overhang, that would make them useless for rally.
Didn't know this existed its a really cool car! The road car looks awesome.
Bloody excellent video.. you need to find a road going version, do a video on that 🤔
Not really into rallying but what a very interesting story, I thoroughly enjoyed this video Jack especially as I owned a BX and enjoyed it in my £100 cheapo car period.
I wish you a very Merry Christmas from Rome👍🇬🇧
My grandad had a couple of the BXs, used to feel like a spaceship when the suspension lifted and the indicator switch used to fascinate me
Very nice. This one had escaped me, thank you. By the way, buying cars back is not unusual to Citroen. They also did that with the GS Birotor. Luckily I had a drive in one. I owned a normal GS at the time and the Birotor fitted the GS concept very well. I understand why Wankel engines did not make it, they ran very nice and smooth however.
They stuck that engine in an Ami too, M35 prototype.
Very cool to hear from someone who drove one of the rotor Citroëns. Thanks for sharing.
Comotor (joint venture with nsu/audi to develop wankels, intended for the CX for instance) was the first thing to go after the peugeot takeover, as it was a massive money pit. Still, Citroen tended to go bankrupt after every great innovation, ~1934 (traction), ~1956 (ds), ~1975 (cx).