Hellcat Pro or M&P?
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Ive been asked about several guns that are comparable to the Hellcat Pro in size but so far people most want to know why the Hellcat Pro and not the M&P thats the same size. So today I wanted to take the time to lay out my thoughts on that. Thanks for watching
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I just got the hellcat pro last weekend. I haven’t had a chance to get to the range yet but as for the feel of it I’m loving it. The grip is amazing and feels natural in my hand. Finding the front sight it just falls into place. I’m definitely happy with this purchase.
I couldnt be happier with mine….or so I thought lol. I just got done recording a video that will be posted this coming week. I got the apex upgrades for the Hellcat Pro and I think its really taken it to the next level
@@360TacticalSolutions definitely will check that out. I have been looking at that also as well as the M-carbo striker assembly kit. I’m just holding off so I can get a feel for it in stock form to really feel the benefits of the upgrades.
All your Hellcat Pro videos are awesome. So informative and well thought out. I have enjoyed them all.
Thanks man. I got more on the way
The M&P is heavy and fat as $hit when compared to the HCPro. For an IWB CCW the HCPro is unbeatable.
How’s the recoil on the pro
It’s ok… I have the hellcat pro. My girl had no shooting experience and she was able to handle the hellcat pro.
Both guns are thin wtf are you talking about? Glocks are fat...
Should compare HCP with Shield Plus, I own both and am deciding which to CCW (currently HCP). The SP is considerably smaller and I'm told (range in 2 days) less recoil, but it is quite a bit heavier. I expect I will change to SP for CCW due to the smaller footprint and smoother shoot, we'll see.
I definitely wont buy another Shield till S&W figures life out a little better lol. No Tac rail and short grip is a no go for me. I also dont feel there is any advantage to the shorter barrel. To me the Shield and smaller sized Hellcat are both guns that the world could do without 🤷🏼♂️
@@360TacticalSolutions What exactly do you mean regarding the Shield figuring out life? Lots of magwell extensions and you can mount a light on it without a tac rail per se. If you're not in California of course you have the optics ready version. Personally I don't care about an optic for my CCW gun but to each their own.
@@jazzzman1000 specifically S&W needs to figure life out…this is coming from a die hard M&P guy BTW. Subcompact guns have almost no advantage right now considering guns like the HCP and the XMacro exist. The shorter barrels are louder, less accurate at distance (not that you are going to shoot long range with them) and they tend to have more recoil as well as lower velocity. All this because the idea is a shorter barrel makes for easier concealment. The problem there is the length of the barrel/slide doesn't make it more concealable in the vast majority of cases. It actually hampers concealment because the center of gravity for the gun runs so heavily above the belt line making the grip area have a tendency to want to push out away from the body. A longer barrel actually helps keep it from doing that.
While on the topic of concealment the thing that helps concealment the most…again in the vast majority of instances is thickness of the gun not barrel length or grip length. Making a shorter grip only lowers the capacity and makes a situation where you need a grip or pinkie extension as part of your mag in order to get a decent grip and even at that you still dont end up having the same capacity as something like a HCP and you are back to nearly the same grip length as a HCP thus negating any benefit to the short grip in the first place.
Grip extensions, pinkie extensions are a bad idea…again lol in the vast majority of situations. A mag change requires you to break your grip in order to drop that mag freely and hopefully not pinch and block the fresh mag on its way in. On the other hand with a slightly more full grip you can drop an empty mag and load a full one without ever really changing your grip, worrying about missing the reload or your hand being in the way or readjusting your grip. This is all stuff that gets highlighted when running through some defensive shooting classes. Doesn’t take long before you want to chuck that sub compact in the trade in bin. For me it was 20min into a class before it hit me how bad the designs are.
The tactical rail is something that should be standard along with an optic cut. Every gun should have them so if you want a light and a dot you can mount one and if you dont thats fine too. I know a lot of people that dont use either and thats fine for them but making all guns have the option means you dont have to pick and choose a model that has that option. Of course with these sub compact guns the shorter barrel means you sacrifice the real estate one would need for a rail. Instead you have to buy a rail adapter or a light made specifically for that gun that mounts to the trigger guard or whatever else. This limits your options for those types of accessories and adds a secondary issue….holster compatibility.
I know what you may be thinking, none of these points apply to you. I get that. What I do here testing and shooting so many guns puts me in a position where I’m talking with people in all industries and walks of life all the time. I hear stories about problems people encounter. I talk to people at gun stores, shooting trainers and people in the industry. My view has been built based on all those experiences. My end thought is that the M&P could be shrunk down to a 1” thick gun while retaining a 3.7” barrel, flush fit15rd capacity, optic ready slide and the grip length it has right now and pretty much eliminate the entire Shield lineup and be better off for it. S&W of course wont do that because they make a ton of money selling all those guns. This is why my EDC is the Hellcat Pro, its essentially everything that someone could need in one gun at a fair price.
@@360TacticalSolutions You are aware of the newer M&P shield models that are optics ready and the Equalizer with a 3.675" barrel,1.04" width, and Picatinny rail?
You make some fair points that I agree with and others I don't or consider distinctions without a difference at least for my particular CCW needs. From many UA-cam videos I have watched, the Shield Plus gets very high marks for having much less recoil compared to it's peers and even to larger guns including the HCP, which many find snappy. I rented the X macro and found it fairly snappy as well. Unfortunately I am in California so I don't have the luxury of anything more than a 10 round mag thus the Shield Plus is significantly shorter than the HCP and I expect will conceal better, I'm about to find out.
Again, I love my HCP, don't get me wrong. I don't have enough time with the SP to make a final determination of which I will carry or maybe even alternate if different scenarios warrant.
Different strokes for different folks, right? ;)
BTW thanks for a great channel, I learned a lot from you when I was first starting out.
@@jazzzman1000 yes definitely aware of the optic ready shield and the equalizer as well as the shield plus performance center which is now discontinued and replaced with the shield plus carry comp. None of these guns solve the issue of the full grip and flush fit 15rd mags. I live in WA and we also recently put in place a ban on anything past 10 rounds…but I look at the big picture, not just my personal situation. S&W makes the 3.6” M&P which is the one I used in this video. If they leaned that gun out so it’s 1” thick it would be the ultimate carry gun, legitimately the best thing available on the market. .16” seems like nothing but it really does make a difference.
All of this is an exercise in expanding the conversation of evolving the market though. Like you said, different strokes for different folks. Glock has their slim frame models but for me they just aren’t comfortable in the hands. At the end of the day personal preference reigns supreme
S&W M&P 2.0 over Springfield Sig and Glock for me but I honestly would have all of them if I could afford it
you read my mind on this one; i am getting the HellCat Pro; great video as usual
Thank you. Im going to be doing a 2500 round review hopefully before christmas if I can get it recorded in time
Som complain about recoil on a subcompact,as someone how loves shooting the 45acp,the 10mm,and the 357 and 44mag,i find recoil isn't a problem for me,lately my edc is the hellcat pro
HCP is a solid weapon
Great video brother keep up the good work, they both fantastic gun.
Really appreciate it. Thank you
New aspiring gun owner here. Taking my LTC class soon and have been doing some window shopping for what I’d like not knowing much about firearms. The hellcat pro caught my attention so naturally I wanted to see what it was competing with. I’ve been going back and forth between these 2 and you just helped my out a ton. Hellcat pro it is. If I get the m&p it will be the 4in. To have something a little different than the hellcat. Thanks for all the info.
Both are great choices. If you go with the Hellcat Pro take a look at my playlist of videos for it. I think the Talon Grip video I did a couple weeks ago is a good one to watch. Talon Grips are a must…best $25 you can spend. I’ve also got holster discounts and can point you in the right direction for a weapon light as well. Feel free to reach out any time. Glad to help a new member of the 2A community
I'm a Californian who does not have a ton of choices in handguns. Both of these two guns are on my short list now that they've recently been added to "the roster."
Thank you for making this video.
I’m glad to help. I have a whole playlist of Hellcat Pro videos. I was really excited that you guys got it added to the roster. I can’t recommend it enough.
I was all for the M&P compact, until I saw that the California version didn't come optics ready and had the manual safety.
I hope to eventually get a "regular" m&p, but for now I ordered the hellcat pro.
Great video. Right to the point! I only started carrying my original Hellcat once I was able to shoot it better than my M&P Shield 2.0. But, in the winter, here in Michigan, I carry a Glock 27 or an XD 40 sub compact
Haha winter in Michigan? You ought to just about be able to carry anything there. Layered up and Packin heat lol
I just felt the hellcat at Turners, it feels like a nice gun.
It’s definitely a nice gun and has a ton of potential for upgrades and expansion. I would say though, try and find a range with a rental program and get some live fire time with it before making a purchase. Everyone is different. Some people do really well with it, others have issues with how it handles. Always test before spending that money
i was going to get the 365 specter comp ; and the gun shop was showing me the pro; and telling me some reasons it’s a good buy, I shot the 365xl, the G43 x, and I agree with you on the pro, i did not shoot the specter though
Rather than buying in the gun shop, order it from this link alnk.to/fayb7pw
I get a small kick back and you get a few extra mags at the same price as if you bought the gun at the gun store
Reading all the comments below makes me wonder if I'm odd because I watch all of a video sometimes more than once. I respect that it's your opinion, but I get the feeling that you have the experience to do an honest comparison. That's as much as anyone can expect. 👍🏻
Actually its funny you say that Terry. UA-cams analytics show me that the average viewer has watched 50% of this video. Actually talking to other creators Ive found that there is a pretty big trend as far as the data goes. What that trend shows is that all videos regardless of the channel or subject have a pretty large drop off of viewers in the first 45 seconds. You may see a video has a hundred thousand views but half of those views were less than a minute in before they lost interest and moved on. This explains a lot. People watch till they form an opinion of the content, they type up a comment...post and move to the next video before they fully understand the point of the video or the conclusion. This is why UA-cam Shorts have become so popular, short attention spans, instant gratification generation. I just feel fortunate to have the handful of loyal viewers that truly do support me. Its you guys that keep the channel going and I appreciate you
I dislike it whenever somebody calls anything "perfect". Perfection means it literally cannot be improved. Pistols, as mechanical devices, are compromises in engineering; some are better than others, but all involve tradeoffs... tradeoffs are like the opposite of perfection.
In a couple of years, the next iteration of designs will come out and influencers will bend over backwards saying why the new hotness is the "perfect" choice, but never go back to correct why the previous "perfect" gun is no longer perfect
I think you are reading too much into it
@@360TacticalSolutions I don't entirely disagree... there is such a thing as interpreting literally what is meant metaphorically, wherein "perfect" really just means, "my opinion as to the best fit for a given application absent confounding factors". However, I don't think this excuses unwarranted hyperbole. There is a trend in social media to inflate the description of things as it generates better engagement. For teenagers talking about their hauls or whatever, hyperbole doesn't matter.
My contention is that when it comes to firearms, precision matters, whether for group size, reloading, the law, machining tolerances, knowing where and when to shoot, etc. Why then do we expect and require precision in everything else regarding guns, but do not require precision in talking about them? Guns are fun and it is our right to keep and bear them, but we cannot disregard the fact that they are extremely dangerous tools designed to destroy things. A lack of clarity in speech does not serve the greater good when it comes to weapons, so I cringe when I hear people say things like "perfect" or "obviously".
To be clear, this is not directed at you... I think your description in the video was measured and spot on
@@grahamohea2424 I generally tell people there is no perfect pistol…only what fits me perfectly. The problem is of course in the drive through type, instant gratification society we sadly live in…people dont care to go in depth and have these conversations. Ive posted up videos where I’ve really worked hard to give as much substance and knowledge as possible. Im talking about spending 15 hours or more to produce a video just to get less than a hundred views. Its not viable in a business perspective to really deep dive because people dont have the attention span. Its sad really. I do my best but at this stage in life I just make the content I make and people either get something from it or they dont and hopefully I clear enough monetarily to fund the next video
@@360TacticalSolutions I hear you and I understand that UA-cam is really not a friendly platform for this type of content. Forgotten Weapons and Paul Harrell both do highly in-depth, longer form videos... so there is a formula to make this work, but I think they had the advantage of getting onto the platform early and building up a huge following before the adpocalypse kind of killed any hope of other creators following in their footsteps afterwards. All you can do is what you can do
@@grahamohea2424 thats exactly it. The people that got on early have managed to do alright. These days if you want a successful channel just do videos where you see how many sticks of butter it takes to stop a 50cal...the vast majority of people don't want information, they want entertainment
So my question is, why the Hellcat Pro over the Shield Plus? In my experience the Shield Plus has less recoil and carries better. I own both and carry both and like both. I tend to choose the Shield over the Hellcat. Curious on your take. Since Smith and Wesson came out with the 15 rd magazines capacity is a wash, in my opinion.
Wait…you own the Hellcat or the Hellcat Pro? The only Shield I’ve shot. That had less recoil than my Hellcat Pro is the Shield Plus Performance Center thats 4” and ported
@@360TacticalSolutions I found the base model Shield Plus to shoot "softer" than any other micro 9... For me the order from softest runs FN Reflex, Shield Plus, Hellcat Pro, X-macro, 43x, Taurus GX4, Canik MC9... Both the Hellcat and 365 I would put somewhere around the Canik MC9.
Of the comped or ported micros, I've only shot the Shield 45 PC, Shield Plus PC both 3.1 and 4 inch versions, and the X-macro comp... I found the Shield 45 to shoot fairly soft for a big bore, not terribly more recoil than a non ported micro 9.
Anyway, that's just my opinion on them, and everybody has opinions...
Love my hellcat pro. Thinking about getting the m&p 2.0 4.27 barrel 17 rounds. Or should I just get another hellcat pro? Thoughts, thanks.
If it were me id get the 17rd M&P and build them both up. Two HCP really only made sense for me because I needed one totally stock to do comparisons with…that and I got a sweet deal on my second one lol. Also the M&P is a sweet shooting gun
Sold my Hellcat Pro. Too snappy. Trigger's not very good. Shield Plus was more comfortable to shoot and I am more accurate with it, even though it's a smaller gun.
I'm a smaller than average dude with a slim build and a slight frame so even the Hellcat Pro prints too much for me in most of my outfits.
So, basically, it ALMOST checked all of the boxes, but in the end checked none of them. I have a Shadow Systems CR920 that I really like, and am looking at the Shield Plus and the Kimber Mako as a backup.
How was the hellcat pro printing more than a CR920? Same lengths, but the shadow is much thicker.
@@caleb4015cr920 grip is shorter
Idk why people complain so much about the "recoil" on the Pro. You can literally just practice and learn to control recoil on any gun. I was on a mission to be able to control the recoil on my XDM 10mm. The only way to be comfortable with it or master it is by practicing with it
My 10mm M&P felt like a damn mule kick when I first got it. A few mags and a couple different range trips and I learned that guns feel well enough that Its not that much different to shoot than my 9mm. I will say, I don't like to tell people to just keep practicing. I think the better wording for the advice is more along the line of learn your grip and stance fundamentals, practice perfecting those and you will be able to control just about anything....aside from the 50AE Desert Eagle which is just a monster that serves no practical use other than having a WTF gun lol
@@360TacticalSolutions
I completely agree
@@S.0.G lol that first mag on the 10mm I was like WTF is this shit...how does anyone actually shoot this gun. I have carpel tunnel so that was flared up like crazy from giving the gun the death grip. You get those fundamentals down and work them on a gun and you can make it work. I will add though, certain guns like the S&W Shield with its short barrel, small grip and shitty texture...they take a lot more work to combat the recoil than other guns. So much so that if someone is really struggling then its a sure sign that its not the gun for them
@@360TacticalSolutions
Yea I thought the same haha I hated the magwell the XDM came with cuz it was uncomfortable. I ended up getting rid of it and using an extended mag to make the grip much much better. Now I like shooting it cuz I can't handle it lol
Because when you shoot two guns side by side at the range and one feels way more snappy than the other, which I've experienced with the HCP, you don't want to practice with it or do anything else with it. You immediately go "this gun sucks to shoot". There are better shooting and reliable guns out there - why not get one of those?
Yes helped me out
Glad I could help 👍🏻
What about the Smith & Wesson shield plus? Would that not be a better comparison to the Hellcat.
Thats a complicated question. The issue with that comparison is that the Shield plus is still in that smaller range of gun. It still doesn't have a full grip without an extended magazine in it. The Shield plus has a 10 and a 13 round magazine. It also has a 3.1" barrel. The only fair comparison between that and the hellcat pro is overall thickness of which they are both very similar. The problem is the 3" barrel creates a very snappy recoil impulse whereas the 3.6" HCP is more similar to the 4" M&P. Standard mags on the HCP are 15 rounds, same as the M&P or a G19. The HCP contends with the larger 4" guns but does it in a better overall package for concealment because of its slim profile. Matching it up against a Shield Plus is like Mike Tyson fighting a high school freshman...theres just nothing fair about it
@@360TacticalSolutions nice video! One thing I'd say after shooting the Shield Plus (which I bought) and the Hellcat Pro (which I really wanted to like) is that the Hellcat Pro was considerably more snappy and didn't shoot as smooth as the Shield Plus. Obviously doesn't make much sense given barrel length, but both of the guys I was with also felt the same. We all shot the Shield Plus better and felt the HCP was snappy. Most people I've seen taling up the Hellcat Pro say it feels good in the hand but haven't had it to the range yet. I think most will be a little disappointed when they do. I see a few comments below that say the same.
@@tronner10 one thing about the HCP is the chamber is designed to be higher pressure. People talk about the PDP and how snappy it is for its size. Walther has explained that the chamber is a high pressure chamber which gives that extra recoil feel…but also gives a boost in velocity. The HCP is very similar in chamber design. Thats why the difference between it and the slightly larger Shield Plus PC
@@360TacticalSolutions I have no reason to doubt that's true :-) I just wanted to offer another opinion on the Shield Plus vs HCP because the HCP is definitely more snappy with more recoil, and honestly not as enjoyable to shoot for me as the smaller Shield Plus 3.1" which I have , not the longer PC.
You really should be comparing the Shield PLUS 3" and 4" not the outdated out of production 2.0 compact model.
Thanks for the advice. I went and looked for your comparison of those models and couldnt find it…weird. Everyone always wants to say how videos should be done but they arent doing it themself. The 3.6” M&P is still in production. It’s listed on the S&W site and I still commonly see it in local gun stores. I compared these two models because they are two similar pistols that I have readily available. The only real reason to compare with the Shield Plus is that its closer in thickness to the HCP…but its still thicker, it has a smaller mag capacity, shorter grip that requires pinkie extensions in order to get a full grip, doesnt have an accessory rail. Really if we are being honest the comment could have been that none of the firearms that S&W makes are up to being compared to the HCP. That I would have agreed with.
Nice video. The thickness of the gun is key here. That's why I'm wondering how the Hellcat Pro would compare to a Smith and Wesson M&P Shield Plus with a 4-inch barrel. This comparison also begs the question if the Hellcat is really something new and revolutionary?
I havent seen a 4”, only the 3.1” and I really dont like that gun. The thickness of them is great, but the barrel is too short and they still dont hold the capacity of the Hellcat Pro.
@@360TacticalSolutions You're right. How about Arex Delta M gen.2? Same capacity and similar footprint and weight, but it is fully ambi, have backstraps and a modular chassis system. On top of that it is now available with a threaded barrel (Tactical version). How about that comparison?
@@DoomMajster nope lol. Same thickness as any other 4" gun. I do like the Arex but dimensionally its the same size as a Glock19 or the 4" M&P.
@@360TacticalSolutions Seriously? I was under the impression that Arex is significantly thinner than a Glock 19. Not as thin as a single stack, but still...
Good video.
I prefer Smith wesson/ I own them both/.
Hey Mike, have you thought about getting a 4 inch threaded barrel to drop in the 3.6, then putting a comp on it?
The M&P or the Hellcat Pro?
@@360TacticalSolutions I was thinking M&P - I should've made that clearer - but a comp on the Hellcat might be interesting too!
@@SasquatchTX im considering putting a threaded barrel and comp on the 4” M&P. That 3.6 is a loaner but with a comp…might be something worth looking at. Apex is releasing the threaded barrel fo the hellcat pro soon and i may end up getting one of those too lol
How are u carring the pro? Aiwb, owb?
AIWB and today specifically I’m using a G-Code holster
ua-cam.com/video/sL243KpNqBE/v-deo.html
Comfortable enough to sit and squat down with it in there? Only reason is a carried a g48 iwb @ 1 and I could sit or squat down without it digging in
@@nathanmatheaus2930 for the most part yes. There are moments it's not great but overall it sits well. Im thinking about buying a wedge for the holster just to test it. I usually don't use wedges but people keep asking so I might take a look
Who said they were created equal??
When you make a comment on a video that was posted almost 3 years ago but don’t really make any point of reference it’s hard to know what you are talking about. Commentary type comments are tough because not only do I not know what you are talking about but as per YT rules I can’t go back and watch my own content because it’s considered padding my numbers. Even if I could, I wouldn’t want to go back and watch a video to try to remember what was said that sparked a comment on a video that was made dozens of videos ago 🤷🏼♂️
First off the hellcat pro is over 3.5 coming in at 3.7 vs a 3.5 m&p
Generally speaking when someone starts a statement with “first off” that means they have at least two points to make. Are you offended because you own a 3.5” M&P and I not only compared to with a 3.7” HCP but I had the nerve to say the HCP is a better conceal carry gun? Or is it that I’ve rounded the barrel length of 3.7 to 3.5 in a comparison showing the HCP sits between two modes of M&P but is superior?
Hellcat pro vs m&p 2.0 4 inch?
lol are you asking my opinion on HCP vs 4” M&P?
@@360TacticalSolutions yeah since you was comparing the 3.5 inch with the HCP then said you would pick a 4 inch all day sooooo I'm like wait what? Lol
@@Crazypitbull16 ok gotcha. So I did the comparison because the two guns are essentially in the same size class. It gets more complicated when we talk about the HCP vs the 4” M&P. As far as handling goes the M&P is the clear winner. It’s slightly more ergonomic, it has a much better grip texture and it’s a smoother shooting gun. For concealment…the HCP wins all day. It’s lighter and has a thinner frame and slide which makes it a better concealment gun. They both have their positives but in different areas
Hc is 3.7
Shield plus shoots better about the same size and cheaper.
Wait you are saying the shield plus is superior to the Hellcat Pro? Let me start by saying im a S&W guy through and through but your comment just isnt correct by any stretch other than them being “about the same size”
The shield plus comes in at “about” a half inch shorter which not only makes it more concussive but also gives it more muzzle flip. There isnt a single way that the shield plus shoots better than the HCP. You saying that is like trying to say the Shield plus shoots as good as a 4” M&P…it’s just not in any way shape or form true.
The Shield Plus comes with a 10 and a 13 round mag. Even with the mag i the grip is short. You dont get as much control over the gun because you have less hand making contact. The HCP comes with 15 round mags and you can get a full grip on it with or without a mag in it…but even with a mag it’s hardly longer than without one.
Shield Plus comes with the standard S&W iron sights. Nothing special there. HCP comes with a tridium front sight but also is optics ready right out of the box.
Shield Plus has no accessory rail which is unfortunate because the sights are super basic so you cant add a light to positively ID your target. The HCP has a rail so if you want to add a light you can.
There is a reason the HCP costs more. Roughly $100 more than a Shield Plus but you are realistically getting $200 more as a gun. I cant think of anything I missed but feel free to explain how the Shield Plus is a better gun. BTW I have extensive range time on both guns and I can tell you its not anywhere near a close comparison
@@360TacticalSolutionsHi , I bought today the shield plus with optic ready and red dot front sight. I was almost opted to get the HCP for the same price. Should I replaced to HCP ? Thanks 🙏
@@RanTausi keep the one you bought for now. It will do you well. Trying to trade it and get the HCP you will lose value on the Shield. Also im betting that there will be a new HCP coming in about a year or so that will use some of the new stuff they are using on the Echelon.
You spent way too much time talking about 3 5" and 4" M and Ps.
Shoot me a link when you do a video 👍🏻