Topping E50 & L50 - Good But A Little Odd
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- Topping E50: amzn.to/30gdoca
shenzhenaudio....
Topping L50: amzn.to/3DgmTXh
shenzhenaudio....
TRS 1/4" Cable: amzn.to/3DeKF6a
TRS 1/4" to XLR Cable: amzn.to/2YJFHiJ
Austrian Audio Hi-X65: amzn.to/3ktkb9y
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Austrian Audio Hi-X50: amzn.to/3qtZw9b
Topping EX5: amzn.to/3j3LNS1
RME ADI-2 Dac: amzn.to/2YUeNEP
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Sennheiser HD650: amzn.to/36JtqMj
Avantone Planar: amzn.to/3iPD4R9
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Neumann NDH20: amzn.to/3i8p9b8
TIME STAMPS:
Features & Build - 1:20
Overall Sound & Performance - 4:43
Power Output - 11:10
Value & Conclusion - 13:27
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1/4" TRS are super common in pro audio. You can find them at most instrument supply stores, so I don't think it's that much of an inconvenience. I like the compact size of the E50/L50. I also like the move to TRS, XLR is unnecessary for home audio equipment. The E50/L50 seems like a redo of the E30/L30 stack. The L50 can actually produce the advertised power via balanced.
@Eph 2 All you need are 1/4" TRS cables for the balanced connection. No need to spend big money on cables. Monoprice or WBC are fine. If you want to splurge Mogami. Topping offers some short interconnects now too.
Got this stack recently for $390 along with some Sundaras for $250, all new. It’s my first set up and using Apple lossless through my Mac air I find it quite an impressive set up. Far exceeded my expectations and a relatively affordable point of entry into my new hobby.
Nice! Where'd you find Sundara for that price?
@@VBYTP that’s the price you can get them for here in Taipei. So surprised I bought 2! My little bro is in for a treat for Christmas.
@@ronanmorgan426 Not bad man....
There are few things more terrifying then realizing you can't hear a difference. So glad I did some research before dropping serious money on especially amps and dacs. After a few hundred dollars the only real difference seems to be what features you might want (what inputs you need, balanced or not, 4.4 or not, Bluetooth, MQA, remote, etc.) and how much you are willing to pay for them.
Glad I was on the market for a cheap DAC and came across this channel. Nobody else I know does A/B on their subjective reviews. This channel deserves to be bigger, along with objective audio reviewers.
EX5 is a better buy unless you need more power. I gave up on inefficient headphones. EX5 is fine for me.
1/4 inch to XLR cables are very common, and patch cables for pedal boards are pretty much the exact length that you would want. 1/4 inch is a great space saving idea IMO. If this is your first stack, it is much cheaper than short XLR cables. Even if you buy Mogamis.
I am very curious about the Sabaj A20h, as they are offering a relay based volume control at a very low price.
Happy with my E30/L30 stack and don't plan on upgrading any time soon.
They used TRS for saving space, if you look at the back there's definitely not enough room for 4 XLR ports. There is no excuse for not including adapters in the box though
A Topping engineer on the ASR forums said they went with ¼ TRS for size reasons.
Perhaps I'm odd too - this sounds like exactly what I've been needing. I could do with a low-mid priced DAC upgrade for my main hifi (RCA amp input only) that can send the signal to a headphone amp the other side of the room (speakers go off at 9pm due to neighbours and thin walls). The E50 has RCA out for the amp and TRS that can easily go all around the wall 5m to the L50, without picking up much interference. I don't think I happen to have two spare TRS-TRS cables that long but I have a shorter one - the connector doesn't feel odd enough to complain about, especially when the company's matching products (L50 and PA5) offer the same.
And there's a few spare options to play with on the L50: TRS is what my PC's audio interface puts out; the RCA input could let me use the preamp phase of my main amplifier. Barring early failure, they seem pretty future-proof too - if the measurements and your comments are anything to go by, I doubt an audibly better DAC or HPA will be out in my price range for many years. Final benefit is if I stop needing to use headphones at home, I keep the E50 and just sell the L50 so someone else can have some nice gear for a low price.
@No Theme Reviews Thanks that you are still reviewing these repetitive devices from topping and smsl, kudos to you. I have finally checked both musical fidelity mx-hpa and cayin iHA-6 myself. To be sure that I am not crazy I ordered topping a90 for comparison. I was blown away by the sound of musical fidelity and cayin. I can understand why cayin didn't release anything similar after iha-6 because they don't have to. At the end, I kept musical fidelity mx-hpa because I just love how it sounds. The price of cayin, 950€, was not easy to accept but next time(I am saving up for that).Musical fidelity is one my favorite brand right now. I ordered the m2si integrated Amp from MF for my living room and paired it with my wharfedale evo 4.2. A match made in hell, love it.
Lol. Yeah MF makes good products but they’re not remotely flashy. I live Cayin’s stuff but it’s really expensive. If you ever get a chance, listen to the HA-1A Mk2
@@NoThemeReviews MF is not flashy at all but my experience was positive so far. I can say that I am a fan of cayin too. The ha-1a mk2 is not easy to find in germany at a reasonable price but I'll look for it. Please review one of your cayin desktop amps.
Good quality cables with proper functionality and required connectors on each end are not an "unnecessary expense", but a must do expense as they are the required tool that allows you to send a good audio signal between your devices.
One can never have enough cables, at least from a studio professional point of view.
TS or TRS cables allows to move with ease between various sources inside or outside a rack.
I would like to see a blind A/B of mid to high end dac's and amps done on most of the snakeoil youtubers praising expensive gear over mid range. They would never agree to it because they know it would delegitimize them instantly. That said I love the features and low noise floor of topping gear.
Yup. Can’t get sponsored videos or promos if suddenly they start actually telling the truth about gear. Funny how every single Dac is more dynamic than the last. Almost as if we’ve breached the dynamic ceiling and launched into orbit.
Great work rectifying the point about adapters, Topping should include adapters, the weird thing is they include it for the cheaper D10 balanced but not for the more expensive E50.
There are plenty of really good TRS Balanced to XLR cables available, much better than adapters. Also, given the use of TRS in the pro audio world, really can't see them going anywhere.
I was planning to get the e50, ended up getting the ex5 for the xlr output
Yeah the EX5 just makes a lot more financial sense than many stacks. It’s a damn good product, and something Topping should seriously pursue in the future
Ex5 Amazon has today as well 15 percent off with coupon it’s about $300 😯
btw both output are single ended so they are unbalanced so it doesnt matter if u use the XLR or 3.5mm both sound the same. You need balanced output to hear any diffirence
I believe we reached a point into hi-fi where we could talk about value, power (power output, current...) and features when we talk SS headphone amplifiers. Sound is mostly reserved to headphones and DAC-filters, and not so much amp dependent.
i own too many dacs and too many amps - i blind test "audiophiles" every chance i get and not a single person can tell the difference - headphones yes, amps no... you can tell the diff between 560s and sundara ... but the magni vs the element 3 vs the l50? yeah no, stop the madness... mr dani dingo you are 100% correct.
Just learn to solder cables. It's easy and cheap. Hard to find adaptors/connections? Never a problem again. Uh-oh, they don't have gold-plated XLR connectors! Anywhere! Will my signal still be audiophile enough????
aight, imma sub in hopes shenzenaudio sends you more gear to review!
You can get a stack now for $370. plus whatever the cables cost, but I picked up the E50 a while back for $199. I think it was definitely worth that.
I didn’t need a headphone amp. 👨🏻
im just hear to say that a e 50 with the mx5 was a night to day difference compared to just using the mx5 i have the e50 stacked via balance trs
Just wanna say that the most significant difference between the topping stack and the schiit products is that the schitt stuff is absolutely not available in the east HAHA im more glad to know that i can get the same quality from the option available to me in asia
You can still connect the E50 to another amo through the RCA connectors correct? Is it simular to the balanced connection in power and sound?
Yes you can connect via RCA. There is never any difference in sound between balanced and single ended-not in any product. Balanced topography does not provide a different sound signature. Power will be different because RCA on the E50 will output 2 volts, while the balanced out will have around 4 volts. So, depending on how to connect to your amp, there will be a difference in overall peak power from the amp.
@@NoThemeReviews Thanks
As far as amplification, is the e50 more powerful than the EX5?
I own the EX5 thanks to your review of it, and have noticed a couple of headphones I own could use a bit more amplification, would it be worthy to upgrade to E50 if i already have a dac to plug it into and am only looking at it from the amplification side of things, also i found it used for a pretty decent price so there´s that too
I assume you mean L50, not E50. I would take Topping and SMSL numbers with a heavy dose of salt. On paper, the L50 is more powerful than the EX5. It's not a bad amp at all, so if you feel like you need more amplification, this might be worth trying.
Thanks for the review of this No Theme, I ended up going with the L50 and D10 balanced. I saved a little bit of cash going with the D10b but not as much if I would have went with the dongle! :)
I left same question on another video, question was , I saw 5 reviews speak of this E50 dac , none explained about no cell phone connection, I bought the e50 and was upset that I couldn't connect my android usb-c to it..would be helpful if someone mention it and say what must be done..Thousands of people uses there cell phones for music connections...
What’s a good higher-end DAC? Say $1000-$1500 range, what impresses you?
Hands down: the RME ADI-2. It’s a full-features Dac for dialing-in your preferences.
LKS MH-DA004 from Shenzhen audio dual ES9038 Sabre DAC 1500$
@@NoThemeReviews How about Chord Quetest and Mytek Brooklyn ?
@@NoThemeReviews it was on my short-list for a long time. good to know--thanks
@@jparker818 i keep hearing about the LKS--I'll check it out, thanks
Did you Have you had a chance to test the SMSL VMV D1SE or the SMSL M400 would either of those be good.
Do you need to use a Balanced headphone when using the balanced input ports of the L50?
I have a DAC that has only balanced trs out, but no headphones with balanced capabilities. I would like to know if I would be wasting my money looking for an AMP that can receive balanced inputs, as I only have the capabilities of using SE headphone ports.
Balanced topology makes no difference whatsoever in audible sound quality, and there is no change is sound signature, when compared to single-ended. The only material difference is (sometimes) greater power output from the balanced. If you're happy with what you have now, then don't waste money on balanced connections.
Love your non-hype style and journalistic approach to reviewing audio products. What do you think of the Soncoz SGA1 Amp? Is there any appreciable difference between that product and others you've tested on your channel, including the ones in this piece? Thank you.
I’ve never used the SGA1. I’ve no idea what justifies the cost, however. I seriously doubt it’s doing anything different from far cheaper alternatives, other than that it provides mediocre power output. Frankly, I wouldn’t buy it.
@@NoThemeReviews Thanks! I have Bifrost 2 DAC, so basically any of the proliferation of newer 250ish priced amps on the market are just fine... even over the higher priced models at around 500 bucks.
In reviewing your channel's content to date, is there any balanced headphone amp on the market that you believe offers value and performance? Appreciate it.
That's my thinking as well. There's very little invention in dacs and amps. Nobody's adding useful features--ie, EQ presets, full connectivity for all balanced options in one package, desktop apps, etc. But I keep reading the same BS reviews from Sound News and others about how amazing every amp and dac are--when there's no audible difference in a true A/B test. Such a waste of money.
great review as always, have an additional question for you, how much performance improvement will i get if upgraded from the dragonfly red, used as a dac only paired with another amp, to the e50? and how does the e50 compare to the e30 also from topping? thanks!
I do t recall having used the E30 and haven’t compared it to the E50. Honestly, after reviewing many Topping/SMSL gear, it’s hard for me to assume there would be any audible difference between the two. I can’t speculate how big a difference if any you’d be able to perceive if you change your setup.
@@NoThemeReviews thanks a mil for the feedback, and keep up the great work!
Would you be able to get your hands on the new Monolith AMT?
On another note, how do you find the UI on the Soncoz, have tried a few of their products and found them quite frustrating.
Not much of one. I’m annoyed I have to increase volume every time I connect it, but otherwise it’s fine
I have the topping L30 amp can I just buy the E50 DAC and use with L30 ? Don't have the money to buy a the newer amp. I don't really care about the balance input or maybe the ex5 with my L30 , is it OK ?
Yes you can use them together
There a cheaper DAC that would work with this? Seems all it needs is good output voltage right?
Any dac will work with the L50. Your choice in voltage are usually only 2vrms, 4vrms, or a select few have 5vrms. You'd only get 4vrms from a balanced dac.
Or i suppose the switcher is simple enough for me to figure out, but where can I find one?
These are all the switches I use:
amzn.to/3kEMAtq
amzn.to/3ckP4Zm
amzn.to/328Kdc2
Can you do a tutorial on how to setup amplifiers so that I can A/b them with that device you have?
It’s fairly simple. Use one Dac, and output through RCA. You can use any sort of RCA splitter-a 2-in-1 cable or a switch box-to connect each amp to the Dac. I prefer a 2-in-1 cable as I don’t have to toggle between inputs from the Dac section. Something like this works great: amzn.to/3Fp6Mr6
Then, connect the amp single ended output using a standard 3.5mm aux cable. Go from the amps to a passive switch box like this: amzn.to/3Fmflmt
Then connect your headphones to the output of the switch box. Once you’ve volume-matched, just switch back and forth on the box to listen for any alterations.
@@NoThemeReviews I am going to get the a/b tester one day...
Have you reviewed the Ifi idsd Neo? You do great work!
I've been meaning to do a review of it. But I can't get myself to care. I'm afraid it's a mediocre product at best. I just don't understand what iFi was thinking. It's neutral...but so are a lot of far cheaper products. It doesn't have any significant amplification to boast about. $800 for this device is scalping.
I find the whole (for me) best suited DAC selecting process a difficult and confusing experience. Some reviewers say the sound differences between DACs are huge, you seem to say that for sound it doesn't really matter. The RME ADI-2 is indeed better but for its features, not so much the sound if I read your your comments right. If this is true then why are all these companies introducing countless numbers of DAC models? It could be to confuse us more and If that is the case I have to say it works, I am indeed confused.
The reviewers who keep saying that dacs sound different have no clue what they’re talking about. They refuse to do true A/B tests, use the vaguest terminology to convince people about their alleged sound differences. Why are these Dac companies releasing so many dacs? Ask them. My hypothesis is that they are catering to the crowd that believes minor at best measurement differences means that the Dac is better than the last iteration. Also, Topping and SMSL do not make claims about sound differences among their products. These companies simply list technical information. So, as far as these companies are concerned, they aren’t claiming that all dacs sound different.
I am 100% confident in my findings. Since no one else does true A/B comparisons despite the relative ease in practice, I think any reviewers who assert a contrary opinion have no leg to stand on.
@@NoThemeReviews Very interesting and it made me decide to buy a new DAC and to add an RCA switch to see if I can hear any differences doing a blind test. Most probably not but I am looking forward to it when they arrive.
@@ricsim78 Funny how true A/B tests don’t confirm subjectivist impressions, measurements contradict what they claim, and simple alternative explanations to perceived differences are far more rational than strident arguments that all dacs sound different. But go ahead and waste money on dacs. What the hell do I care?
@@NoThemeReviews even more funny how the comment you responded to is now deleted 😂
look at the volume pot
digital, analog, levels, construction
A positive Topping review from NTR? Wow, these really must be adequate.
Come on! I had lots of positives about the EX5 too.
@@NoThemeReviews I'm going to have to rewatch it to make sure ;) This stack has been on my shortlist, and I'd been hoping you'd get your hands on it to sour me on the idea. Might actually buy it now. You monster.
Hi, so basically they all sound the same, nuetral along with tonality and timbre, imaging and soundstage ? But what about synergy and scalability such as with HD800s or even Focal Utopia or Meze empeyrean ? Another silly question, how does it compares with THX 789 and your other expensive amp/dac. By the love the words you use, earth shattering and ground breaking, at least not too much flowery poetry language eh ?
I have no idea what people mean by “synergy”. On the rare occasions when people use dacs and amps that have some audible effect on sound, then I suppose they are referring to the overall sound from that combination. But the vast majority of amps and dacs are neutral-and other than making sure the headphones receive enough power for peak performance-it doesn’t matter. Frankly, I don’t understand why people spend so much energy and money on these components when they could save and buy gear that actually does sound different-headphones and IEMs.
@@NoThemeReviews I myself believe in synergy and scalability, however I can explain objectively and subjectively to you but this platform might not be suitable at all. Too long explanation. I dont like BS audio as well but sometimes I want to give it a try since most of us unable to A/B. So anyway, to your testing no difference at all even compare to $2500 amp/dac in terms of nuetrality ? Any difference if you were to test with higher end headphones for instance ? Have you compare with THX 789 ? So many silly question and curiosity.
@@nicktan4530 No, there's little to no difference in neutrality among dacs. Once they are neutral, that's it. Some might appear to be marginally clearer than others, some might have a slight emphasis in treble--only perceptible every once in a while under real close listening--but there is no difference in overall neutrality. I've tested with all of my headphones. The results are always consistent. Whatever minimal difference that might be present are nowhere close to the amazingness people keep talking about. For example, the difference between the EX5 and Brooklyn+ is marginal, and there is no justification for the huge price gap if sound is the deciding factor.
@@NoThemeReviews No truer words were ever spoken.
"save and buy gear that actually does sound different-headphones and iems "
@@NoThemeReviews Maybe you are only listening to one type of topology like Sabre and AKM so hence they all sound the same. Then what about delta stigma and NOS/multibit or r2r dacs which by the way which are quite expensive, they will sound impressive and for sure will change your perception among dacs. When I had the Hugo2, I went crazy and I cant discern the difference, not because you say so, its and my ears and am good at listening stuff and micro info but I cant discern the difference between Hugo2 and cheaper alternative, my brain is going crazy here. And now you might argue the THX 789 or whatever headphone am using is not higher end enough but am not sure about that. Must be missing some sort of element and parameters am testing. I got alot of hate in the forum where some stated am trolling or me lying not owning the product. Am between subjective and objectivist in audio while at the same time I still believe in synergy and scalability because have experienced before but that varies depending on the chain of audio. But not all gears benefit from it. As for Mytek Brooklyn which one, is it the $2000 you own or heard ?
Is it worth spending a little more and getting Topping A90 Headphone Amplifier and something else for the DAC?
I don't think so. Unfortunately, there's a lot of people who put emphasis on buying more and more powerful amps, or buying the newest release because of its measurements. As long as your amp has enough power for your gear, there's no point in buying something else.
@@NoThemeReviews What about sound signature of certain amps? Same goes for DACS? :)
@@KitaristChannel Which certain amps?
@@NoThemeReviews Well just talking overall. There are also some slight differences in AMPS and DACs for example but its up to a listener how much is that important to them or if they even hear them. How do you think this stack compares to SMSL SH9 and SMSL SU9 or you think there isnt any difference?
This is an good example ua-cam.com/video/_KSyZ7Zk_n8/v-deo.html can you hear the difference? The pink noise level is even :)
Every review of topping products and what i have also ordered the boxes they come in look like the postman played soccer with them, there always crushed....
You are anti-thesis of hype :D always making me regret my purchases.
I guess you changed the part about adapters from previous upload. iiWi reviews mentioned in his review you can use adapters but if you do, it is gonna be somewhat a tight fit.
Yeah, it wasn’t what I was trying to convey. I have no idea why I wrote it in the script and then recorded it.
Concerned that your switch box will alter and homogenize sound (I know it will). Not a valid test for your listening test portion of your presentation. Have you tried listening to the DAC directly then listening to the same DAC using your switch box?
What on earth makes you think that a passive switch box has any effect on the sound? Where are you getting this idea from?
@Rrumble Tttumble you mean doing a "test" when knowing exactly what you are listening to ? along with all your biases regarding how that new shiny dac cost more money so you expect it to sound better becuase you might panic if it didn't or just sounded the same? (and you feel like you wasted money?). Yea, no. If you look this up, you'll find that even speaker devs have failed to spot their own speaker in a blind test with 4 other candidates, often from massively different price points. The Harman tests covered this. Kinda scary eh? Imagine how much harder it would be to spot a dac among 5 different dacs. You might even end up picking one dac as the best only to find out it was a cheaper option, or the one that had bad measurements! What would would do then? quit the hobby? In all seriousness, no, it would not change the sound or make them sound similar. Saying as much is an easy cop out from having to admit it is extremely hard to find differences, especially with dacs.
@@NoThemeReviews From actually having listened to lots of high quality audio equipment. Ignorance and just going by what everyone else says is not my strong suit.
@@sudsnh You’re not the only one who’s listened to “high quality audio”. You’re plain wrong about your concern. There is absolutely no basis in reality to claim that a passive switch “homogenizes” sound. Listening without a switch box and matching volume is the most incorrect way of comparing audio gear you could propose. You made a very specific claim about switch boxes, and now I want evidence that backs it up. Your personal experience is woefully insufficient in light of fundamental electromagnetic theory. I await your reasoned explanation-one that is based on 1) repeatable testing, and 2) does not violate electromagnetism.
@@sudsnh You literally contradicted yourself. Ignorance and going by what others say is exactly what you're doing. You're clearly ignorant of how current flows through cables, ignorant of a dac's purpose, ignorant of the measured evidence that shows dacs are transparent, and instead use your own ridiculous beliefs supported by people who think just like you. You guys talk like your "high quality audio equipment" is made of stuff nobody's elses is. You're out of touch with reality and out of touch with sanity.
Have you had a chance to try the Schiit Modius or Asgard 3?
Nope
How lazy and cheap can you be to not buy a necessary cable required for optimum connectivity between two devices?
TRS inputs and outputs are not tipical for "audiophile" equipment, but XLR is? Get serious!
Both XLR and TRS connections are tipical and normal for professional equipment, but there is no law against taking advantage of a balanced connection on consumer (what is audiophile?) audio equipment, regardless of the type of connector used.
First of all, take a deep breath and stop losing your shit over nothing. Second, no, TRS isn't normal for typical audiophile gear, whether you agree or not. We rarely see it from Topping, SMSL, Chord, Burson, or a wide selection of other brands. The vast majority of amps/dacs with balanced topography come either with XLR or less often 4.4mm. I never said there's a law against using an alternative to these, just that it's odd considering the target market. Chill the fuck out.
l50 enough power for anything ...... monolith 1070............ 60 ohm 5 watt handling bet that amp would sound anemic on them