Can Spanish Speakers Understand Ladino (Judeoespañol)?
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- Опубліковано 5 тра 2023
- Can Spanish speakers understand Ladino (Judaeo-Spanish)? In this episode we test the degree of mutual intelligibility between Ladino and Spanish.
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Ladino (גﬞודﬞיאו־איספאנייול) is a language derived from Old Spanish that used to be spoken by the Jewish community of the Iberian Peninsula. However, in 1492 the Catholic Monarchs of Spain (Isabella I of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon) ordered the expulsion of all Jews. This was known as the Alhambra Decree or the Edict of Expulsion. As a result, the Jews of present-day Spain and Portugal were expelled and mainly spread to North Africa, the Middle East, Balkans, and other parts of the Ottoman Empire, as well as other regions of Europe. As they settled in new territories, many of them preserved their language, maintaining its Old Spanish core while being influenced by other languages. Today, Ladino is primarily spoken mainly by Sephardic Jewish minorities around the world, and has been acknowledged as a minority language in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Israel, France, and Turkey.
Spanish is a Western Romance language that originated in the Castile region of Spain which has expanded to become the world's second-most spoken native language group of languages. Most of modern Spanish comes from Latin, with ancient Greek and Arabic also having an impact on the language. It has also been influenced by Basque, Iberian, Celtiberian, Visigothic, French, Italian, Occitan, Catalan and Sardinian, as well as from Nahuatl, Quechua, and other indigenous languages of the Americas. The Spanish language evolved from Vulgar Latin, which was brought to the Iberian Peninsula by the Romans during the Second Punic War, beginning in 210 BC. Previously, several pre-Roman languages, unrelated to Latin, and some of them unrelated even to Indo-European, were spoken in the Iberian Peninsula. These languages included Basque (still spoken today), Iberian, Celtiberian and Gallaecian. Today, Spanish is the official language of Argentina, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Equatorial Guinea, Guatemala, Honduras, Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Puerto Rico, Spain, Uruguay, and Venezuela.
In 2002 I was in a cafe in Cape Town, South Africa. I overheard two old men speaking what sounded like Spanish but not any dialect or accent that I was was familiar with. I asked them what it was and they told me Ladrino. They were both born in Alexandria Egypt. In the Greek community. They had served with the British army in WW2. I had a nice conversation with them, in Spanish. I gave them a copy of a cd of Spanish/ Jewish folk songs published by the government of Castilla-Leon.
Castilla Y León
@@Legiobergidum tiquismiquis
@@timothyrobson3325 no, la cópula está para algo ..se trata de una comunidad autónoma compuesta por dos regiones.
@@LegiobergidumLa región es la misma.
@@masn9997 no, es la misma comunidad autónoma, pero son dos regiones y nueve provincias, tres leonesas y seis castellanas.. así está recogido en el mismo estatuto de autonomía de Castilla y León..y no, no es lo mismo jose Antonio que Jose y Antonio.
It would be interesting to have a conversation between a Ladino speaker, a Spanish speaker, a Chavacano speaker and a Mozarabic speaker.
I would add Papiamento as well. Just for the reason, Spanish influence is so much, people don't know anymore if many words came from Portuguese or Spanish.
I think Mozarabic died out long ago sadly
Mozzabrabic is dead
And Chamorro from Guam or guaján!
Now, that would be interesting.
Ladino is basically Old Spanish from the 15h century with few additions from Greek, Arabic, and Turkish.
Modern Ladino does. But the Ladino spoken in spain pre 1492 had no Turkish or Greek
Castilian Spanish is basically Old Spanish from the 15th century with few additions from indigenous American languages, French, Italian and English.
Don't forget Hebrew
@@JyV79ofc not that'd be middle Spanish, how the old Spanish talked in the middle age could have native American lent words..??
And Hebrew!
as a turkish sephardic who grew up with ladino, thanks a lot for this video
wow even in turkey !!waw amazing how your ancestors kept the language for 400 centuries !!
much respect from France
@@corentinimbert4173why are you surprised?
because keeping alive a language after leaving country after 400 years and turkish is completly different from spanish !
Plus it is not even a religious language, like latin, hebrew or arabic,
So turkish jews speaking ladino is an incredible proof of language and culture saving in a community @@MariiiaPuder
@@corentinimbert4173 that's true, much respect to Sepharads for that. Also Ottomans, unlike France, being tolerant to other religions and cultures is a plus too :)
@@corentinimbert4173 Yeah, the Spaniards deported the Jews, and at the time the Ottomans colonized the Balkans which is where many of the Sephardic Jews reside. It explains why there are so many Turkish loan words in the language.
Ladino is a beautiful language, unique, based old spanish but with many influences from another languages.
From hebrew, it is influenced by hebrew , stop denying
@@ultimatedark5969”other languages, that can’t be named, cause it’s associated with Israel”
No such language
@@danielalbo3781 tf you're saying
@@kippsguitar6539 oh yeah you checked ?
Amazing! As a Spanish speaker one can understand about 90%!! (especially when he read the phrases out loud). And both my great-grandma and grandma used to call us “criaturas” when we were children 😃
Criaturas es una palabra que utilizamos en España, cariñosamente se dice mucho criaturitas
@@laramartin4715
Tambien es muy comun en México. 😊
@@laramartin4715 si. En México todavía se usa mucho.
@@josephbarrerareyes ya se. No se porque el chico dice que no
@@Pikachu-ez1rm Es Fácil... le falta Barrio.
I’m Ashkenazi Jewish and Italian, but my Lucanian ancestors share a surname with ex-Ottoman Sephardim and one time I talked to an old lady online in Spanish and she replied in Romanized Ladino and we could mostly understand each other…
Ashkenazi has some connection to Khazar Turks
@@TheShocktrauma Yes, mostly apocryphal in origin and NOT born out by genetic testing.
@@TheShocktrauma the khazar theory has been false, Ashkenazi jews indeed originate in the middle east, nice try
@@georgyzhukov6409 it’s not a theory.. Khazar were Turks who ruled vast area between Khazar sea and north of black sea. These people converted to Judaism. Once they were destroyed , they got assimilated into eastern europen culture. Seljuk family ,was Jewish too but they converted to Islam and moved to Middle East it is the roots of Türkiye Turks .
Of course the Jewish component in this Turkic population is about 5-10 %.
@@TheShocktrauma the theory that all ashkenazi jews are decendents from.kjazar is a false theory debunked by geneticists. The point is that ashkenazi jews originate from jews who settled in italy and Germany, the khazar kingdom also concerted to judaism however their actual numbers are miniscule. Also ashkenazi jewish dna does not show turkic dna.
como un turco que puede hablar español, q sorpresa me dio darme cuenta de q podia entenderlo perfectamente, ttambien estaba sorprendido cuando escuchaba venetian aparecia casi español en un video. me encanta de saber este bonito idioma!
That’s really neat! It seemed that his knowledge of Turkish helped the man from Mexico understand it a bit more, perhaps.
Exacto, una vez uno lee el texto y luego él lo lee se entiende completo.
Eso me sorprende tambien del Veneciano! Pero al contrario de otras zonas de Italia, los Españoles no dominaron Venecia. Me pregunto si muchos sefarditas se instalaron alli. La palabra Ghetto viene de alli, cuanto podian influenciar el lenguaje? despues hay otra lengua llamada ladino al norte de Veneci, pero parece que no tiene nada que ver! Misterio. No sabia que "el mio libro, la mia casa" pudiese ser castellano antiguo! Se dice asi tambien en italiano.
Imagine if you went back in time to the Medieval Middle East, and you encountered a whole community speaking basically straight-up Spanish. You'd think there was a glitch in the matrix. So bizarre, so cool, I knew about this language but not how widespread it was
It got widespread because the spanish kingdom kicked out the jews from their land.
Ladino spread in the middle East after the middle ages. One Arab traveller wrote of the Spanish as "speaking the Jewish language".
Ladino does sound quite a lot like when Old Spanish is read out loud with an approximate pronunciation. It's impressive that they still keep Ladino alive with so much media in Spanish available, considering that if you speak Ladino, understanding Spanish is not such a big stretch.
I'm Turkish and Ladino sounds like a Turkish person speaking Spanish.
I'm ladino speaker and I have to admit then ladino these days does sounds more and more Spanish
@@hagit33That's awesome that you speak Ladino. Have you had any plans to pass on the language and teach it to other people ? And what do you do when you can't remember a specific Ladino word or verb ? Do you have Ladino dictionaries that you use to remember words or do you opt for Modern Spanish words ? I'm a native Spanish speaker and unfortunately Ladino resources are very scarce online. I was able to find what is a very extensive online dictionary but you have to pay to enter it😅😢.
@@cacalover4253 this days we W Hebrew speakers, as life goes by most eldery have passed away and the younger generation don't use ladino anymore, we are the middle generation so we still use it now and then, I'm guessing the only place in the future that you will come a cross with ladino will be food names, I still see young ppl who have specific words (in any language since ladino Isn't the only language that came with the Jews to Israel) for traditional food so I guess that will stay longer
27:54 In Greek we have the word παρέα /paˈɾea/ (f.) for the group of friends hanging out together, which is a Ladino word parea < Sp. pareja. It started from Thessaloniki (Salonika) which before WWII had a sizeable Sefardic Jewish population, and spread all over the country to the point we don't even use the native Greek word for it!
Wow, I knew the word παρέα but I didn't know about it's Spanish origin! Thank you for the info!
Muy interesante. Me fascina la etimología.
Yes, indeed, Salonika, pre-WWII, had a large Sephardi community, apparently approaching 40% of the city/port's inhabitants. Forty years ago, I met a surviving community member who lived in Paris. She told me that on Shabbat (Saturday), the commercial life of the port ceased to function - everything shuttered until the next day/week.
In neapolitan we have the same word and it means "to have fun"
As a jew I learn Greek and I could read παρεα😇
i really felt that medieval throwback with the phrase "Djente de Piron". i read this and paused and thought and thought, like the guy from Mexico. what is a Piron? because it sounds like it could be a Latin based word, but was a Greek loan word. and then when he said it is fork, it was a mind blown moment. how old this language is to pre-date Spanish. in the medieval times, only the very wealthy would eat with forks, so to call a privileged person a "person of the fork", is such an interesting and clearly medieval way to mark a class distinction.
In my island, Corfu in Greece there used to be some Ladino hebrew speakers before WWII too. They came from Spain and Portugal along with hebrews of southern Italy which back then was part of the spanish crown.
now tell me why they left Greece
@@alessbritish228 what a question! They left Greece because of the nazis! The germans took them to the nazi concentration camps in Germany and Poland, most of them died there. The few jews who survived came back to Greece or moved to the newly founded Israel or to other countries.
@@alessbritish228 most of them were massacred in the holocaust, those who survived moved to Israel after
@@_juan.joao_ Wow that's so sad... I'm sorry for asking this question but why didn't Greece's government/army/population defend them?
@@Dah42 how could the greek government defend them? At that time there was no greek government, Greece was occupied and governed by the german nazis!
Many thanks to Bahador and the presenters!
The explanation I've heard for the expression "djente de piron":
For centuries, most people in the Mediterranean region commonly ate grain dishes, soups and stews, in which ingredients were cut up in pieces and eaten from a common platter with spoons. Spoons were the standard personal utensil, inexpensively carved from wood, shell or horn, or made in luxe materials for the wealthy. Breads, of course, also served as edible utensils, and still do in those cuisines.
The fork, as a personal eating utensil (as opposed to the cooking tool), is a later invention, and initially only aristocrats could afford to own them -- and to eat the types of food (like larger cuts of meat) which required their use. So the expression "people of the fork" was a way for the folk to refer to the wealthy. And in some contexts, it was maybe even a humorous or sarcastic dig at people in their own community who had upper-class pretentions.
Very interesting! Thank you!
It has been a great pleasure to participate in this video, greetings to my colleagues Pablo, Adán, and Aleks!
And also of course a big shout out to Bahador! Thank you very much for organizing this video.
¡Un saludo a todos y espero que todos disfruten viendo el vídeo como lo he disfrutado yo participando!
It was an absolute pleasure! Thank you so much for being a part of it!
Gh
A propósito de "zarzavachi": zabarcero, ra = 1. m. y f. Persona que revende por menudo frutos y otros comestibles.
A propósito de "kale ke" (o cale que):
caler= (del lat. calēre 'estar caliente').
1. intr. desus. ser menester. U. en Ar.
It would be interesting to do Zamboangueño Chavacano, the Philippine Spanish-based creole language.
Would be great if there was a representative of caviteño, zambuangueño, and ternateño , and a lovely conversation it would be to note the likes and differences of each variant
@@stacyfoote9032 Absolutely! I feel like Haitian Kreyòl is well-featured already for French-based language; these Asian Spanish-based creole languages aren't that well-featured, maybe because they do not have a national language status. The Zamboanga variant is thriving still. It'd be so darn cool and interesting for these to be featured in our fave language exchange channel.
I'm an Hebrew speaker that grew with a mother who her father spoke Ladino. He was born in Jerusalem a century ago to a Sfaradic family.
When my mother and her sisters didn't wont us, the children, listen or understand what they are talking about, they used to say between them "The Terelanians (are listening)".
I later understood the the meaning of Terelanians(?) is Spiders, as a "code name" for the young ones...
I wonder if this is still valid today among Spanish speakers.
We have "telarañas", written with the "ñ", but I guess that letter for that sound was incorporated later into the Spanish language. The pronunciation is so similar. It means Spider web. It does make sense to say "The Spider webs" are listening when one does not want overhearers. I'm gonna start using it!!!
Yes, we don't use that expression, but it makes sense. We use instead "Las paredes escuchan".
Mr Elion: Many many thanks in advanced because as a spanish who studied latin+greek+sanskrit and history of castellano+ literature (wich was named filología after fílos- lógos) at the uni, I' m going to steal and adapt _The Terelanians_ > Los Terelanios to use it in the same situations😉😎. Best regards and todà rabà🧛🏻♀️🖤
Telarañas ...means Spider web
in Spanish.
Arañas are spiders. Telarañas are the spiders fabric literally (tela de arañas); spider webs.
As a Brazilian with a reasonable level of education ( I won't deny I also love comparative philology), I can understand Ladino to a great extent, no kidding.
Thanks for one more amazing vid!
Me too! I am also Brazilian and can tell a lot of similarities in grammatical constructions “a minha casa = la mia casa” and phonetics.
@@aluisiocunhajr.1882 Eu não teria como achar o vídeo agora mas há um de um rapaz falando ladino excelente pra exemplificar isso, é muito mais compreensível que o espanhol (castelhano), acho que ele quase não usou palavras turcas, não sei se foi isso mas a gente consegue entender cerca de 95% creio, se bem que a TV espanhola (quando eu podia ter tv a cabo) dava pra entender basante também mas o ladino até no sotaque se parece mais com o português brasileiro, assim como o galego, embora sejam irmãs latinas não tão próximas se formos considerar os aspectos puramente linguísticos.
That's why ladino speakers with Spanish roots are in title of Portuguese passport.
Iadino does sounds like Portuguese spanish
I can understand why Ladino would use elHad for Sunday, rather than Domingo. elHad is the first day in Arabic and Domingo refers to the Lord's Day.
Because for Jews Sunday is not the "Lord's day" - Domingo, and the equivalent day of rest and prayers is Saturday - Shabat, so Sunday is simply the first day of the week.
In Hebrew also, Domingo is "Yom rishon" (the first day) or "Yom e7ad/eHad" (day the one)
@@Elzass752 incorrect. Yom ehad means "one day", like in English, such as if we say "one day I'd like to visit xxxx"... Yom ehad doesn't mean "day the one" as you wrote. You can say "hayom haehad", which means "the one day" and it has nothing to do with the days of the week. Yom haehad doesn't make sense grammatically and even colloquially.
By the way Hebrew is my native language.
As an Arabic speaker who grew up hearing spanish from my mom’s side (and studying it for two years), this was so fascinating!!
In Colombia we say "echar lengua" when we talk with one another for long. Interesting to know it came from Ladino.
Very interesting!
I would add that Colombians tend to pronounce the "s" in a similar fashion to ladino speakers
@@manorueda1432 Será interesante. Pero es una deducción falsa. Posiblemente se trate de una expresión arcaica del medioevo que sólo sobrevivió en Colombia (después que la trajeran los españoles) y en el sefardí simultáneamente. No hubo ninguna influencia directa del sefardí en Colombia.
It doesn't come to Colombia from the Ladino, but from Spanish. Ladino has a base in medieval Spanish and has kept some expressions and words that have died out or are rarely used in many parts of the Spanish speaking world. There you have the connection, and it passes through Spain.
Most probably its origin is Old Castilian.
Turkish - Ladino - English
zerzevatçı - zarzavachi - grocer / grocery (spesifically sells fresh veggies but sometimes fruits too)
sıkıntı - sıkıntı (basically the same but it seems in Ladino they pronounce it like sikinti) - problem / distress / annoyance
peki - peki - alright
Haydi (depends on the accent/ has ayde aydi haydi hade variations) - Ayde - Come on! (in a sense of saying "hurry up" / "lets go" / "lets do it")
Karpuz - Karpusi - watermelon
Patlıcan (yes originally Persian) - Berenjenas - Eggplant
To me the Ladino pronounciation of Turkish words sounds as if a Greek doing it... Well, they were mostly located in Balkans and it seems to be natural.
I could be wrong but I guess zerzevat also comes from Persian. I can't help connecting it to sabzijat سبزیجات which means vegetables in Persian ( sabzi سبزی means veggies/greens and sabz سبز means green). The at/jat is an Arabic plural marker which we sometimes use with Persian words too. I think you do the same with some Turkish words like peşinat which is obviously not Arabic.
@@malolelei3937 I'm not sure if zerzevat comes from Persian or not, but we already have "sebze" and yes it is Persian origin. Zerzevat rather an old saying, today people most likely to use "sebze" when refferring to veggies & greens.
And yes it is a remnant of Ottoman Turkish, we used to do that; but in a different way. -lar / -ler is the Turkish plural making suffix and its quite efficient but Ottoman society used -yat / -iyat suffix for making a name out of another name or verb.
Example: Cumhur = public , Cumhuriyet (iyat here) = republic , Cumhuriyetler (both iyat and -lar here) = republics
Another one: Medeni = Civil , Medeniyet = Civilization , Medeniyetler = Civilizations (we use "Şehir" the Persian one or "Kent" the Roman one for cities we dont use Medine for city)
Yet another one: Galip = Winner , Galibiyet = Victory , Galibiyetler = Victories.
As you can see those are either already Persian or Arabic loan words into Turkish. In modern Turkish all these are still in use but understood as much more of an archaic words.
The examples I give have Turkish original variations but we still use Persian or Arabic ones because.... Culture :)
Full name of our country for example; Türkiye "Cumhuriyeti" Devleti = Republic of Turkey
I think zerzevat is synonymous to sabze/sabzijât but uses another, old Slavo-Aryan stem: compare to Persian zarğôn "green, goldish", Slavic zĭelĭonŏ "green", Bengali hiron = Sanskrit hiraņya = Avestan zaraniia "goldish", Sanskrit hari = "yellow, green", Slavic žoltŏ = Persian zard "yellow", Russian zĭelĭenĭ (зелень) = sabze, Russian zĭelĭĭe (зелье) = "herb tincture (medicine from herbs)". It's also Slavic -ivo (however analogical to Latin -ivus) suffix might be use like in words ognivo, toplivo, morozivo with meaning "something which makes ogoń/fire, topiĭe/heating, moroziĭe/freezing, etc.". So zerz-ivo / zarĝ-ivo (Persian zarğôn "green") or zĭelĭč-ivo (zĭelĭče - sounds like "more zĭelĭko/greenized, vegetized", i.e. zĭelĭčiti = "to make it vegetized" like pĭerčiti = "to pepperize (a dish)" or gorčiti = "to bitterize, to mustardize (a dish)").
Btw, by analogy (to zĭelĭčiti, pĭerčiti, gorčiti) we may fantasize that Persian sabz "green" might be originally sarbz < Iranic sarb-ča, Slavic sĭorb-če "more borscht/soup-fitting". Slavic sĭorbati, xlĭobati/šolbati "to eat/gulp liquid dish", from this po-xlĭobka "a soup (or borscht)". Typical Slavo-Scytho-Sarmatian borsht (which I believe is from Aryan barishta~vRshtha "liquid (dish)") consists of many vegetable ingredients. So "borscht-fitting" = "vegetable".
@@ahemenidov1900 This could be true, we dont have "zerd" or "verd" for either green or yellow, we rather use the very very old Turkic "yeşil" and "sarı", but... We also have "zerdeçal" and "zerdali". I don't know about the Slavic part but now I'm kinda sure "Zerdali" (wild apricot) is yet another loan word from Persian, probably same with "Zerdeçal" (turmeric).
For the standart apricot that everybody knows and eats we use "kayısı" but somehow the sour and wild one is called "zerdali". And it seems both of these names refer to yellow colour of these and most likely share the same root of Persian "zard" (yellow).
i'm turkish and i'm learning spanish so seeing these sentences using both turkish words and spanish words being pronounced in a turkish accent is so strange in a good way
My great great grandmother spoke Ladino coming from North Macedonia,
unfortunately the tradition did not last and cut, I don't even know if my grandmother knew anything in Ladino.
It makes me wanna learn the language
Cuando visité París por vez primera, año 1973, la primera persona con la que hablé en español fue con un anciano turco. El hombre me oyó hablar español con el amigo que me acompañaba y se dirigió a nosotros en ladino. Fue una conversación muy agradable y nos entendimos perfectamente.
No mms!
I was able to understand 90% , the rest is about to understand the context. Great video!!
¡Wuuuuu, ahuevo! Desde hace tiempo me imagino una interacción entre hispano-hablantes y hablantes del ladino. ¡Gracias, Bahador!
I remember my mother speaking with Colombian maid and saying "elHad" to her instead of Domingo. The Jews didn't want to use Domingo as it was related to Jesus so they used the Arabic (also Hebrew) word for "one".
Interesting
I'm a Spanish native speaker, and I understand Ladino perfectly....quite and interesting video Badahor
los mis abuelos is as mentioned, in old Spanish, but beside Italian, is the same in Portuguese, os meus avôs. Great channel and rich in examples from many languages. Mazel Tov!
In some parts of Spain this is still in use. In Asturias is still said to be”los mis abuelos” o para decir, por ejemplo mi hijo dirían “el mi fío”
As a Catlan speaker the prununciation is closer to catalan and some words are also still common in catalan, we also use determinate and possessive article at the same time for the same name
Fascinating. Thank you @bahador and team for a great video
Yay bahador, I was expecting for this one for a long time! Thank u!!
I've always wondered how old spanish sounded like!! Y ahora i heard some of it 😍
not exactly, Ladino developed in the diaspora and has some conservative features inherited from old spanish, but it isn't old spanish itself.
@@ARBERESH hmmm, interesting.. thanks for telling me 😘
@@ARBERESH Yes, like the guy said, he learned a Turkish dialect of Ladino. There are different versions, and there must have been a lot more before. It can give you an idea of what old Spanish might have sounded like, but then you also have to think that there must have been different regional variations, accents, etc., of old Spanish.
Classical/ Old Spanish had some similar pronunciation to Portuguese.
@@alanguages To Galician.
Oh man! this video is the most interesting I've seen all day. I always wondered about this.
Extraordinario, cualquier persona que haya leido e intentado comprender textos en castellano antiguo, el cantar del mio Cid por ejemplo, no deberia tener problemas en entender al menos el 80 o 90%. Y mas extraordinario aun que las comunidades sefardies lo hayan mantenido tantos siglos. Mi mas profundo respeto y agradecimiento para ellos
Ladinooooo😍
That was pretty unexpected!! 🔥
This is a perfect video for me because I try to teach the Sephardic history in St. Thomas, US Virgin Islands at the last of five Caribbean “Sandfloor Synagogues”. As a basis of discussion, we use the year of our first continuous service (1796) and a 230 year old Sephardic Torah that has some Ladino, along with the Hebrew. We have many very interesting cruiseship and destination visitors from all over the World. Thanks for posting this video. 🙏😊
Very neat!
"Donk" is similar to Catalan "doncs", with the same meaning too.
Loved this. Would have really loved to have seen a Catalan speaker in this video as there were some notable parallels i.e. the definite article + pronoun + noun (las mevas casas) and the use of donk (doncs) etc but still a great watch
I sure hope to see a Catalan video very soon 😊💛
Yes! And the verb kale like the catalan cal 😉👍
I agree, it would be nice to see the more specific part of Spain Ladino is related.
yes, there was a big jewish community in girona (catalan city), so it makes sense that the influence on ladino would be through catalan
There are a lot of old articles and prepositions that the spanish/castillian language lost and that in catalan remains.
Thank you for this video!
My parents still speak Istanbul dialect of ladino, i never bothered to learn it as much of my generation, sadly this language is dying out and its good to see people trying to keep it a live!
This was so beautiful to listen to. Thank you!!
What an interesting video! I started learning Spanish about 8 years ago (I'm from Scotland), and when I first saw videos on UA-cam about ladino, I thought, this isn't a different language, it's Spanish. I could understand maybe 70%, which is about what I can understand from most Spanish speaking places, Mexico, Argentina, Madrid... Except Andalucía, usually I understand maybe 90% depending on who is talking, but that's because I'm used to the accent and the expressions they use. I suppose if someone who learned English in school, even English people, came to Scotland they'd be the same, maybe the way we speak in Scotland is like ladino compared to Spanish from Spain
This was fantastic! I speak very little Spanish, but my Latin classes in HS 40 years ago helped a bit :) I was riveted - thank you all so much.
En México se entiende completamente. Aquí había mucho español ladino. Regularmente eran tenderos.
"La mi casa" and "los mis avuelos" is not taken from Italian. In medieval Spanish you could express yourself that way.
A well thought out video as usual Bahador 🕊🙏🏼🌍 I have been thinking a lot about this combination recently.
Extremely interesting, thank you!
I’m English and I speak a little bit of Spanish and am studying arabic at the moment I found this super interesting.
As an Italian I understood quite a few words in Ladino. This was very fascinating!
Ke bueno era ver tu video i oyirvos echando lashon sovre Ladino😊.
5:03 it also exists in Serbian -sikirati se - to worry.
"loar" is also Spanish, and means something like "to praise." Ladino is very understandable except for a few loan words, but "loar" is not one of them!. The medieval Spanish elements of Ladino are very interesting to hear, such as the pronunciation and some old words that have fallen out of common use in many places. Laborar isn't the everyday word for "to work" but it is used in contemporary Spanish. I think the guys all understood well but may not have been able to translate into English, except for the loan words. Thank you for another very
interesting video, Bahador.
I always thought the Argentine slang "Laburar" was due to Italian influence but maybe it could also be old Spanish.
I noticed the same thing about "Loarex". I was surprised the guy thought that one needed explaining.
@@13tuyuti These words are also the root/origin for many English words. Laborar has an obvious connection with laborer (which also means worker). The more languages you encounter the more nuances and connections you discover.
Es sorprendente lo similar que es el ladino en muchos aspectos con el castellano antiguo. Gracias por compartir este contenido
HECTOR
LUIS, ES CASTELLANO ANTIGUO!!!!! Y LO HABLABAN TODOS EN LA EPOCA DEL DON QUIJOTE DE LA MANCHA. LOS JUDIOS FUERON ARROJADOS DE ESPANIA( NO ES UN ERROR, EN MI TECLADO NO HAY ENIE) EN 1492, Y AL SALIR SE DISPERSARON POR TODO EL MUNDO, ESPECIALMENTE EUROPA, PERO ALGUNOS VOLVIERON A JERUSALEM. ELLOS SE RECONOCEN , A SI MISMOS, COMO SAMEJ TET( SFARADI TAHOR ) QUE SIGNIFICA EN HEBREO ESPANIOL PURO/ YO SOY ARGENTINO Y PUEDO ENTENDER EL LADINO, SALVO ALGUNAS PALABRAS QUE NO SON MAS QUE DISTORCION DE PALABRAS , DEL PAIS DE DONDE VIVIERON O VIVEN LOS LADINO PARLANTES
I would love to see (or even participate in) a test of mutual comprehension between a spoken Aramaic dialect, and liturgical Judeo-Aramaic.
There's a local Assyrian church in my city. The people who go there, Assyrians from Iraq who speak a language that comes from old Aramaic, can't understand the liturgical language. It's like asking if people who speak Spanish, French, or Italian can understand Latin occasionally used for mass, or asking modern Greeks if they understand classic Greek. They don't.
I’d love this but I think it would be quite difficult to do.
First you’d have to find someone who can speak Aramaic fluently and with some kind of “northern Middle Eastern” accent just to give it a fair shot of mutual intelligibility. If someone has a Yiddish or other accent it’s not fair because even other Jews struggle to understand 😅
And that’s a tiny group of people when you think of it. Because they must be Jewish (15M ppl), sfaradi (7.5M) and of that must be very religious and male. There’s probably maybe only 100-500k who fit that
And you want someone from originally from Syria/Persia/Lebanon/Iraq/Turkey
So your best best would be to look in Israel, France or the US.
What a lovely group of people! Very enjoyable
Wow this was interesting i speak arabic french and I’m learning Spanish so i understood almost everything this is a beautiful language ❤
It was very interesting to watch the video knowing both Turkish and Spanish :)
I speak Spanish and understood 95% of Ladino. It sounds beautiful.
Why all of them sounded confused ? 😢
This has happened me a lot with mexicans a lot like they got blocked when even hear another spanish accents
I think it’s much easier when you can see the caption as well, I barely speak Spanish and I got like 50-60%
@@ElGuapo4000 I wasnt reading it when I "watched" this vid tho. I was listening it from my phone whend doing other stuff at work.
Right. I was surprised too. I also understood most of it. Idk why they were acting confused. Im Mexican btw
This is really interesting! I had heard that Ladino is basically old Spanish but I didn't know exactly how much and in which way. A Latin teacher of mine told me once that Ladino was a petrified Spanish from the XVth century and maybe it's kind of right, except for the foreing words that were incorporated to it. I had already seen writen Ladino but this is the very first time I listen to it and get some explanations about its nature. It's mesmerizing to learn how Old Spanish survived through Ladino and how it was enriched with loan words coming from here and there. I got stupefied with this video. Greetings from Mexico.
Original Ladino is old Spanish mixed with Hebrew and probably some Arabic. Turkish and other languages were added after 1492 when Jews were expelled from Spain by the very 'Catholic' and 'pious' monarchs
I loved this session! Perfect for my research
Bahador, please let me know of additional resources that may help me to gain a basic knowledge of the Ladino. My ultimate goal is to be able to read and potentially translate some of the Ladino songs. I'll be in Bosnia this summer researching the pre-WW II Jewish community.
Where I live (Northern Italy- Dolomites) we speak Ladin and actually “fork” for us is pirón! Ladin is also a Romance language like Spanish (or Italian)😊
My introduction to Ladino was a concert by the family of Flory Jagoda in Washington, DC… She has preserved the beautiful folkloric songs of Ladino culture and has recorded music that is still available on-line….
So sorry she die this year, (2023)Flory was a treasure.
The ladino music lost the best historian and musical person, we will miss her🌹
ua-cam.com/video/BeS46weU4ZI/v-deo.html
After one month, I can watch this beautiful video again. In some comments, it is mentioned that there were some problems understanding Ladino, and even though it is true (because of some factors behind), I would say that we could comprehend most of what Aleks was saying. Sometimes, we would be more focused on trying to understand some cognates or loanwords before using the context; that was also a problem, but absolutely, we could understand most of it. Also, there were some terms that I found difficult to translate. We speak English, but sometimes it could be hard to remember words (especially the ones used at the end). I mean... Errors that I am sure would not be commited again. Don't judge us hahaha 😅. Nevertheless, It was absolutely amazing that I could have that opportunity to participate in that video with nice people. As someone who enjoys and loves languages, I am so, so grateful for that experience that I could have! Thank you so much everyone for letting me be there. 😄
"Labor" means work in Spanish from Latin "Labor". "Las labores del día" the daily works or duties. When a Spanish woman does not work as a external professional because she takes care about her house and family, it used to be said "sus labores" or her own works (at home) at the national identity card as her profession or duties. "Derecho Laboral" is precisely all related to the legal regulations of work or workers. A person that likes to work or something that requires a lot of work is "laborioso" So labor and all its derivations as labores, laboral is very much used in Spain related to work even if trabajo and trabajadores is also used. Argentinians as an influence of the Italian immigration to Argentina use an Italian word for Labor which is Lavoro derived in Argentina to laburo and is used the Italian way.
I’m surprised no Croatian speakers here noticed “Ayde” this is the same “Ajde” in Croatian that means “come on”. Interesting!
I noticed, that it is the same as hajde in Serbian, with the same meaning.
This most likely comes from ottoman influence on the Balkans. Really cool.
we use it in hebrew too, a lot. guess it's from Ladino
I speak Spanish as a second language and I understand Ladino/Judeo-Spanish. Spanish seems to be very stable over time.
Do you believe that an contemporaneous english speaker would understand and ancient English speaker?
I just love this, it is awesome from a translator point of view.
Thank you for getting this group together. Ever since I heard of Ladino I had wondered what it sounds like. I speak some Spanish and Hebrew, so this was a lot of fun. It was surprisingly so very Spanish, and definitely not as much Hebrew as I expected, from the sampling.
It's not strange to me, if I'm not mistaken, Hebrew began to be spoken from scratch in the 19th century after hundreds of years without being used on a daily basis. Then, it was too late to have influence in ladino language.
The pronunciation and grammar rules seem more similar to português than Spanish to me, I know at the time ladino was more spoken portuguese and Spanish weren't quite as distinct from each other as they are today. Very interesting.
Correct. Medieval Spanish was similar to Portuguese which kept the grammar almost intact. Spanish made a lot of changed throughout the years.
I am a ladino speaker. Ladino is Spanish Judeo not Portuguese. Before there was a Portuguese djudeo but it became extinct.
Ladino is descended from Old Spanish, Old Portuguese and Old Spanish were more alike. But the current Portuguese is very different.
@@alvarofavela2918Incorrect . Portuguese made more changes than Spanish. I change a lot more from the Latin. In fact, Brazilian Portuguese would be more similar to Old Portuguese than European Portuguese.
Did not know this language existed, thanks it was cool to listen to it.
As a Portuguese speaker (EU) a lot of the sentence structure and pronunciation seem more obvious. Great video. I was always curious about Ladino.
I liked the fact that the verb "convidar" exist in Ladino since it is a verb that is going on misuse and considered informal. In Mexico we use it mainly for sharing food such as snacks or sweets. "Te convido de mis papas" means something like "have some of my crisps"
Yes and I remember using it to invite someone to somehere. For example, te convido a mi a casa
It is a very charming language, it's like it has its own personality. Once you notice the change of g for dj, it becomes really easy to interpret the cognates. I hope to hear more of it in thef future
Such a unique video, and language, great job guys! 💪💪 I never heard of Ladino before, but knowing a bit of Spanish and speaking Turkish fluently, it was really funny and odd to hear these sentences and see how the Turkish stuck out like a sore thumb 😂 though compared to other languages I would say Turkish and Spanish have one huge thing in common, they are very phonetically written languages, namely that what you see written you read exactly as it is written: sort of like "what you see is what you hear".
Also, indeed the word Palavra and Palavracı is used quite a lot colloquially in Turkey, it has a negative connotation and refers to words/promises that are only said and not kept, in English you would maybe informally say "bullsh*t" and "bullsh*tter". What I also find funny is that this word somehow made it into German as the verb "palavern" meaning to speak without results ("ergebnislos reden"). :)
"Palavern" was incorporated into German most probably from Portuguese, not Turkish.
Very likely, but discussing origin is always a bit tricky. What you can do it share some information about how it is used in Portuguese?
The word "palaver" exists in English too, but it's not used much anymore.
how interesting ladino is ... I am a native portuguese speaker and I can also relate to it. A lot of the pronoiunciation sounds more Portuguese / Galician n than Spanish. In fact I'd would say its closest to Galician ... but obviously, with a lot of foreign words. You should try it with anyone from Galicia!
In the time the jews were expelled forn Iberia, Portuguese and Galician were the same language and Castillian was not that different as is today.
Very educational. The individual participants can't always be easily understood because their microphones don't seem to be of equally high quality.
Vivimos en la ciudad, y nosotros queremos ir al campo juntos para visitar mis abuelos, y alli llueve toda la semana.
Daniel came home yesterday in great distress, he doesn't want to play with any other children; ____ say that they are from Piron and dont want to share anything with him.
Entiendo casi todo 👍 crecí en Chile, de padre de familia Vasco - con algo de Turko y madre de familia inglesa con francesa y Aleman en matrimonio.
He vivido 40 + años en norteamérica y hablo Frances y poco Latin. Como muchos Españoles👍
Zarza viene de plantas salvajes, creo zarzavachi es una feria de productos agriculturales primariamente... Puede haber transisionado a mercado ... Creo 🤷🏼♀️ ... mis estudios de lenguas son limitados, pero creo algunas palabras son provenientes de Catalan tambien .... Quizas otros dialectos originales de Iberia
this is my hobby as i speak turkish, ladino and spanish :) i also find Portuguese in Ladino. i didn't know djente de piron. i love it
You know many Jews from Iberia especially Portugal came to India after expulsion and most of them settled in the Cities Chennai and Cochin , And These Jews are known as Paradesi Jews
Interesting.
In Brazil we also have news of many Jewish converts coming.
@@DomingosCJM
The Jews that fled to India did it so they would not have to convert to Christianity.
But Pardesi Jews couldn’t preserve their language. The community is totally assimilated within Indian society and most of them speak Malayalam.
@@jaskatpon1 agreed but they yet have Sephardic origins
Very interesting! As a Spanish and Arabic speaker, I was able to understand the majority of this! (excluding the Greek words)
very nice video
Any educated spaniard can understand 95% of ladino, because ladino is, in esence, the spanish language spoken in the XV. If you have read the spanish classics, you will have no problem
Love it bro , I understood a lot of it ,desde Nicaragua 🇳🇮 nuestra primera lengua en nicaragua es el español y después creol inglés miskito, garifuna ,Nahuatl
"Atay kon nana3" es parecido a como dicen "té con menta" en Marruecos... (atay bil na3na3) ¡excelente vídeo!
It's beautiful... My father's family is from Morocco and they spoke ladino in home. Then they moved to Israel and finally my father came to Mexico and met my mom.... So
Cool team on this video!
In Italy we say, creatura, for kid also.I enjoyed a lot this discussion, I understood quite a bit of it.
Sumamente fascinante. Saludos desde Guadalajara (Jalisco). Bien ! Chokyasha!
Hey, what a beautiful video... I feel blessed for my father, despite i not followed his religious beliefs now i'm older, he taught me how to read old texts at a very young age. I can say that if you read a Reina-Valera translation of the Bible for example, you're more able to understand this.
I absolutely love Ladino!
I was born in Argentina and I can understand most of it, with the exception of a word here and there. In fact, I'm Jewish of Eastern European descent, so back in the day, my ancestors used to speak Yiddish and not Ladino, but as a child, I remember my parents listening to Ladino songs, as it was a form of Jewish folklore in a language that they understood.
To my Rioplatense Spanish speaking ears, Ladino sounds like embellished Spanish.
I didn't even notice that "partajar" isn't Spanish. My second language is French and my third is Spanish, and I sometimes use French words in Spanish, like "vepecista" (mail-order seller - the acronym VPC makes equally good sense in both languages) and "corriel" (e-mail). I understood "donk", but if I were to use it in Spanish, I'd say "donque".
In parts of spain, the division of an inheritance is still called partija. But realistically any speaker can easily pick up that it´s just parte + jar. I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in the Spanish speaking world they use the verb partear too.
Catalán partegar is used. Yeah it's easy to get it, especially if you know another Iberian language or you've studied old or literary Spanish.
la raíz es del verbo castellano "partir" del original "partire" en latín la que derivan otros verbos como compartir o repartir o sustantivos como parte (no me han dejado ser parte del equipo).
Maybe it just me, but I understood a good 90% of this!
I speak Spanish as mother language too, I speak English Turkish and little bit Hebrew too. Cool to have found this UA-cam channel 🎉
My first encounter with Ladino was "Non komo muestro Dyo" at my nephew's bar mitzvah. In Spanish, "muestro" is "I show" and "nuestro" is "our", but in Ladino "muestro" is "our", which was a bit confusing.
Good to know about Ladino
ladino is so cool! 😮 I had never heard it
wow that was awesome ! I really love languages so much ....please make similarities between Hindi and Kurdish ..🥰
I am from a place in Mexico where many of our ancestors came from Spain and were Sephardic Jews, and there is a word that people use here for gossip which is "lichón" as an adjective, maybe came from "lashon". I dont know if this word "lichón" or "lichona" is used in others regions of Mexico.
How interesting!!! los críos is also used in Spain, or maybe it was used decades ago, my grandmother used to say críos for criaturas, this is so much fun. thank you for the video. Portokales for oranges (portakal in turkish and Greek based) tomates and berenjenas same word in spanish. I think the word estorvo, means bad things, may you be spared of stumbles, as in bad moments of bad things things