Excellent Video, James. When I was first learning to sharpen my saws I picked up a Stanley Handyman Saw Set at a Flea Market. It seems to work just fine but I have often wondered if I should try to upgrade. I've only had to do this once or twice so far so a really expensive one does not appear to be in my near future. My grandfather sharpened saws and lawnmowers (the old reel type) professionally and I inherited his files and tools. He had punches and hammers but no saw set in his tool chest. I guess I know what he did now. haha. Hope to see you at the Groundhog Meet.
I initially sued to set the saw every time sharpened it. Over the time I have been sharpening my saws, I have eased off and now only set when the saw starts bind easily. Learning about stoning the saw proved to be critical to cut quality with my backsaws. Not just because it helped straighten the cut if the saw wandered, but if there was too much set, the blade will waver slightly side to side. That creates a messy cut surface, so I stone to clean up the up as well as straighten it.
I used your cross-cut saw sharpening video to sharpen my first vintage brass back saw, and this video comes out after I realize I need more set in my blade. Can you legit read minds? Once again, quality and unbiased content. Keep up the great work!
Thanks James I have been a joiner for 40 plus years and still find all your videos useful I'm always looking for the next one to watch keep up the good work
For my fine-toothed saws I use one of several jigs I made using a bit of hardened steel and some red oak I had lying around (total costs of jigs about 10 percent of the Bad Axe jig) and hammer-set. For my handsaws I use a saw setting plyer like my grandfather did.
I had watched your videos on sharpening, but now that this one has released I should be all set! I wonder if there's the potential to add a mechanism to something like the Bad Axe system that delivers a sharp blow, but the same every time. Something like one of those automatic center punches.
There are "trip hammer" saw sets. They are usually pedal activated and controlled by the tension in a few springs. They are a precursor to the automatic saw sets that Foley, Belnap, and Beaver Manufacturing Company (BeMaCo) made.
I read somewhere that you have to be careful to set the teeth in the same direction each time - meaning if you set a tooth to the left one time, don't set it to the right next time. Otherwise, you may break teeth and have to recut the saw. Is this your experience? Thanks - an excellent video.
That is correct! It can put too much stress on the teeth to bend them the opposite direction and they can snap off when filing or sawing. If it were one or two teeth, it shouldn't be a major problem though.
I was really scared of setting a finer toothed saw I had bought to repair (15 ppi). But after watching a few videos, mostly Mr sellers, I just had a go using a nail set and a very light tap with a Warrington hammer. After that it was a good fine rip cut . Just got to get brave and have a go
Love Bad Axe Products! Anxiously awaiting mine. Hoping they come out with a tutorial/deep dive video of their own on UA-cam or social media that goes into more detail, especially with the screw height that establishes the particular set, how hard to hit it, etc. Similar to the videos Woodpeckers puts out when they introduce a new product. Thanks James!
Always interesting, Alec Steele has just released a video making his own saw, he was asking exactly this questions (among others about sharpening the teeth which you've recently answered), so everyone go suggest to him this video :D
That was informative, I have both of the Defiance saw sets even though to my knowledge there was never a Defiance branded saw produced by Stanley. Sorry, no snide comment this time, I learned something and knowledge is power !!!
In Europe we have saw sets that look like pliers, and they're made to be used with the saw plate horizontal (for example lying on your lap. They work, but they tend to bend the whole tooth instead of just the tip like with the Eclise saw set.
One of the more interesting, on the jobsite, ways Rex - I think - showed on a wooden plane. The user set the saw with a punch and using the long bevel on the body of the plane as the anvil. You could see the outline of the saw teeth on the bevel's face. A word of advice for those looking to get the pliers/pistol type saw sets, if you are doing the setting in a vice, the pistol grip type (e.g. Stanley 42X) can have problems. Since the saw cannot raise very far above the jaws and the handles are perpendicular to the jaws, you can run out of room for your hand, the saw set, and the vice jaws; I've had this happen. The Eclipse style pliers do not have this problem. I've used both, and, as James said, if you are setting more than 1 saw, you will have the Kung Fu Grip of Death by the time you are done.
When youbbend or stretch metal, it first goes into elastic deformation and it will spring back to the original position. Bend setting is a perfect example of this. So you have to go beyond the elastic deformation into the plastic deformation where the metal stays in the final shape. Hammer setting is fast and skips the elastic deformation phase and goes into plastic deformation right away. So if you are doing small amounts of set, you pretty much need to hammer set them. If you bend them, the might spring back to straight. Or if you bend them to stay put, you may have bent them too far.
Setting that rip saw looked a heck of a lot easier than a 15tpi dovetail saw. I used a nail and a 3x magnifier. I wished it had been a 6x or more those are some small teeth.
Do you know of a video or blog that describes exactly how the 3 different points of contact in a pliers type saw set all contribute to the resulting set of a saw? Almost all of the saw sets that are available for little money on the used market (ebay, FB marketplace, flea markets, ...) are of the 3 point variety, with lots of variations in the form of the anvil and bottom screw (in the case of your tool), but I haven't been able to find a good answer about how that bottom screw (or its equivalent) should be set. Similarly, there is very little information about how exactly to use the beveled anvils that slide up and down. There are a lot of explanations for how to set the rotating anvils. More generally, given the large range of designs for saw sets, it would be really interesting to see a broader discussion of how some of the more commonly available ones are intended to be used and what advantages each one claims to have. (There wouldn't be some many different patents unless each inventor believed that he had made some worthwhile improvement to previous designs.)
Very usefull information and as always: great fun to watch! The technique you describe, can I also use that for my bandsaw blade? Or is this flexible but hardend metal not suitable?
Is there a reason why a person can't have saw teeth set in pairs or triples? Is there a reason why it MUST be every other tooth? Thanks for another great video!
@@WoodByWrightHowTo my winter project this year is to restore an Foley F-24 automatic sharpener that was my wife’s grandfathers, and I acquired another F-24 cheap that’s nearly complete. Then I found an automatic setter and Retoother that is newer, but needs cleaning up and figure out how they all work.
Oh, either you put no cred to it, didn't know, or cut it for time... There is also a practice in some areas to use less set on the toe of the saw. This is believed by its users to create an easier "starting" area at the nose for starting cuts. A less set section allows for straighter starting with less grabbiness or jumping around. This is sometimes achieved with more TPI by the manufacturer as well, at the toe of the saw. Of course more/smaller teeth and less set together do achieve a better starting pattern, but my question, as I don't own a saw with a starter section, is... Is the plate thinner at the nose as well? Otherwise, it would be more likely to bind where you have the most of the flexable plate between the push and the cut. Thanks for any input/reply.
You can put a hammer in a vise with the head facing up and then lay the saw on that hammer and tap them with another hammer. Tapping them between the two Hammer faces will flatten them back down.
If you place a piece of paper between the saw and the hammer head (or anvil surface) and gently tap the tooth facing away from you the thickness of the paper will get you in the ball park of the amount of set you want. (The paper will only compress a small amount when the hammer strikes the tooth, leaving a specific amount of bend to the tooth!) if you want less removal of the set fold the paper over to double the thickness. Most pieces of paper are between 2-4 thousands of thickness.
The Stanley one was also great a play "cowboys and Indians" when I was a kid until my carpenter dad would catch me playing with it. (note for the WOKE: I am 60 therefore it was a normal game when I was a kid)
So the antique Stanley is "expensive." OK. But the Bad Axe set is also expensive! I think I'll use the pine board method as being more cost effective. ;-)
You flat work people are at least as bad as we lathe people.... Ask 10 people the same question, and you will get at least a dozen different answers. My first thought with the Bad Axe saw set and the one before it was that the hammer part was spring loaded so you pulled it up and let it go to get the same amount of strike force each time....
When I first began sharpening my saws, I added way to much set. I didn’t understand the concept and I couldn’t find a video that gave clear instructions. Thank you for resolving this for both myself, and all current & future saw sharpeners’ to come.
Best way to get hammer setting repeatable would be to make a contraption that lifts a hammer a fixed distance and drop it. Next we make this lifting motion foot actuated and...
i have an old pliers set like you showed! that i found cleaning out for my dads estate sale it is rusted up pretty bad but i also have some saws that dont cut very well so am cleaning it up or trying to! very informative vid lots of good information that i didnt know!!!!!!!
first hundredth! I think this was a very valuable video, I wasn't too familiar with hammer setting, and haven't been to excited to use the plier style sets I have found over the years haha
As soon as you showed that Bad Ass tool I thought, That's it! That's the tool I need. Then I went to the Bad Ass website and saw the price! Guess I don't need that tool after all.
Way more about saw setting than I ever imagined. That said, I’m still wondering if the treatment is different for rip and crosscut saws. I imagine it it’s and can intuit out how to do it right I suppose. Unless there’s something to know that wouldn’t be obvious until I have done it a bunch of times. As always, James, great video. You do some really good work putting these together. Thank you.
There is no difference between rip cut and crosscut. The only slight difference is that with rip cut you can do every other tooth in any orientation. With crosscut you do every other tooth but you always want to make sure the point of the tooth is pointed to the outside.
I have used a 48” frame saw to rip short (6’ long, 16” dia) logs for quarter-sawing. The logs were green and if the set was inadequate it was difficult to follow the line I scribed with a sharpie. I tried the hammer set method and the wrench set method. Wrench set allowed me to make a wide enough set/kerf so I could more easily steer the blade. Or maybe I was bull-dogging the blade as the log was not neutered?
I found several cross-cut saws and blades once. I filed the teeth and set them by trial. I am sure I didn't do a great job, but heck, the saw did cut after I worked on it. I also made a handle for one that did not have a handle. This was back in the 60s when I was going to college.
It looks like the screw that adjusts the set in the Bad Axe saw set is loose enough that it could slowly work its way down, thus increasing your set as you go.
Mine has been on order since they announced it, looking forward to getting mine!
Excellent Video, James. When I was first learning to sharpen my saws I picked up a Stanley Handyman Saw Set at a Flea Market. It seems to work just fine but I have often wondered if I should try to upgrade. I've only had to do this once or twice so far so a really expensive one does not appear to be in my near future. My grandfather sharpened saws and lawnmowers (the old reel type) professionally and I inherited his files and tools. He had punches and hammers but no saw set in his tool chest. I guess I know what he did now. haha. Hope to see you at the Groundhog Meet.
See you next weekend!
James your timing is impeccable… need to set the teeth on my first refurbished hand saw…. Your sharpening videos were so helpful thanks so much!
Thanks for all the info, James! 😊
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I initially sued to set the saw every time sharpened it. Over the time I have been sharpening my saws, I have eased off and now only set when the saw starts bind easily. Learning about stoning the saw proved to be critical to cut quality with my backsaws. Not just because it helped straighten the cut if the saw wandered, but if there was too much set, the blade will waver slightly side to side. That creates a messy cut surface, so I stone to clean up the up as well as straighten it.
I used your cross-cut saw sharpening video to sharpen my first vintage brass back saw, and this video comes out after I realize I need more set in my blade.
Can you legit read minds?
Once again, quality and unbiased content. Keep up the great work!
Lol. I do enjoy reading minds.
I'm commenting here as well as where you pointed out this video to me. Thanks!
Thanks man, I'm only just beginning the resto of a bunch of old saws and this really helped. Cheers
Thanks James I have been a joiner for 40 plus years and still find all your videos useful I'm always looking for the next one to watch keep up the good work
He the hardest working man on UA-cam if ya look how often n how well done all his videos are!
For my fine-toothed saws I use one of several jigs I made using a bit of hardened steel and some red oak I had lying around (total costs of jigs about 10 percent of the Bad Axe jig) and hammer-set. For my handsaws I use a saw setting plyer like my grandfather did.
I had watched your videos on sharpening, but now that this one has released I should be all set!
I wonder if there's the potential to add a mechanism to something like the Bad Axe system that delivers a sharp blow, but the same every time. Something like one of those automatic center punches.
That item can be found for a price - watch the video of James getting his custom saw made!
There are "trip hammer" saw sets. They are usually pedal activated and controlled by the tension in a few springs. They are a precursor to the automatic saw sets that Foley, Belnap, and Beaver Manufacturing Company (BeMaCo) made.
Cool! I have about 10 different vintage pliers type sets, but I want to concentrate on using one. Thanks for the advice, James!
Never seen a saw set like that before. Another bad axe video 🤘
Cool video and thanks for showing that to us and discussing the ins and outs of the process!
Great information. Thanks for sharing.
I read somewhere that you have to be careful to set the teeth in the same direction each time - meaning if you set a tooth to the left one time, don't set it to the right next time. Otherwise, you may break teeth and have to recut the saw. Is this your experience? Thanks - an excellent video.
That is correct! It can put too much stress on the teeth to bend them the opposite direction and they can snap off when filing or sawing. If it were one or two teeth, it shouldn't be a major problem though.
It would be the same as bending a metal wire back and forth until it snaps.
Thanks for the knowledge, dude.
I was really scared of setting a finer toothed saw I had bought to repair (15 ppi). But after watching a few videos, mostly Mr sellers, I just had a go using a nail set and a very light tap with a Warrington hammer. After that it was a good fine rip cut . Just got to get brave and have a go
I bought an inexpensive saw to practice with myself.
Love Bad Axe Products! Anxiously awaiting mine. Hoping they come out with a tutorial/deep dive video of their own on UA-cam or social media that goes into more detail, especially with the screw height that establishes the particular set, how hard to hit it, etc. Similar to the videos Woodpeckers puts out when they introduce a new product. Thanks James!
She said they were making one.
I never saw this before.
Well I saw it coming.
Great video, thanks
Always interesting, Alec Steele has just released a video making his own saw, he was asking exactly this questions (among others about sharpening the teeth which you've recently answered), so everyone go suggest to him this video :D
That was informative, I have both of the Defiance saw sets even though to my knowledge there was never a Defiance branded saw produced by Stanley. Sorry, no snide comment this time, I learned something and knowledge is power !!!
I just went to the dentist, so I thought my teeth were all set. Unfortunately the dentist was stoned.
Thanks James.
In Europe we have saw sets that look like pliers, and they're made to be used with the saw plate horizontal (for example lying on your lap. They work, but they tend to bend the whole tooth instead of just the tip like with the Eclise saw set.
Yup we have those here. They come in all shapes and orientations.
Setting is a saw point
One of the more interesting, on the jobsite, ways Rex - I think - showed on a wooden plane. The user set the saw with a punch and using the long bevel on the body of the plane as the anvil. You could see the outline of the saw teeth on the bevel's face.
A word of advice for those looking to get the pliers/pistol type saw sets, if you are doing the setting in a vice, the pistol grip type (e.g. Stanley 42X) can have problems. Since the saw cannot raise very far above the jaws and the handles are perpendicular to the jaws, you can run out of room for your hand, the saw set, and the vice jaws; I've had this happen. The Eclipse style pliers do not have this problem. I've used both, and, as James said, if you are setting more than 1 saw, you will have the Kung Fu Grip of Death by the time you are done.
When youbbend or stretch metal, it first goes into elastic deformation and it will spring back to the original position. Bend setting is a perfect example of this. So you have to go beyond the elastic deformation into the plastic deformation where the metal stays in the final shape. Hammer setting is fast and skips the elastic deformation phase and goes into plastic deformation right away.
So if you are doing small amounts of set, you pretty much need to hammer set them. If you bend them, the might spring back to straight. Or if you bend them to stay put, you may have bent them too far.
for those that like to use plyer setting they say that you just bend them a bit further so that it will relax back to where you want it.
Setting that rip saw looked a heck of a lot easier than a 15tpi dovetail saw. I used a nail and a 3x magnifier. I wished it had been a 6x or more those are some small teeth.
"..until it's nice and stiff and pointing in the right direction." :D
Love the shirt
Man $250 for the saw set. You weren't kidding how expensive those are
What if someone can make like a lever style setting tool that uses a spring hammer like a centering punch?
Do you know of a video or blog that describes exactly how the 3 different points of contact in a pliers type saw set all contribute to the resulting set of a saw? Almost all of the saw sets that are available for little money on the used market (ebay, FB marketplace, flea markets, ...) are of the 3 point variety, with lots of variations in the form of the anvil and bottom screw (in the case of your tool), but I haven't been able to find a good answer about how that bottom screw (or its equivalent) should be set. Similarly, there is very little information about how exactly to use the beveled anvils that slide up and down. There are a lot of explanations for how to set the rotating anvils. More generally, given the large range of designs for saw sets, it would be really interesting to see a broader discussion of how some of the more commonly available ones are intended to be used and what advantages each one claims to have. (There wouldn't be some many different patents unless each inventor believed that he had made some worthwhile improvement to previous designs.)
I feel like you set me up. Now I'm set to go out to the shop and adjust my teeth. I just need to set this phone down first 😂❤
Very usefull information and as always: great fun to watch! The technique you describe, can I also use that for my bandsaw blade? Or is this flexible but hardend metal not suitable?
As long as they are not carbide teeth
Is there a reason why a person can't have saw teeth set in pairs or triples? Is there a reason why it MUST be every other tooth? Thanks for another great video!
Do them in sets. But that can sometimes create a lower frequency vibration which you feel far more.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo I figured there'd be a good reason. Thanks!
Although I haven’t figured out how to use it yet, I have a Foley Automatic Setter…
Oh those are fun!
@@WoodByWrightHowTo my winter project this year is to restore an Foley F-24 automatic sharpener that was my wife’s grandfathers, and I acquired another F-24 cheap that’s nearly complete. Then I found an automatic setter and Retoother that is newer, but needs cleaning up and figure out how they all work.
Oh, either you put no cred to it, didn't know, or cut it for time...
There is also a practice in some areas to use less set on the toe of the saw. This is believed by its users to create an easier "starting" area at the nose for starting cuts. A less set section allows for straighter starting with less grabbiness or jumping around. This is sometimes achieved with more TPI by the manufacturer as well, at the toe of the saw. Of course more/smaller teeth and less set together do achieve a better starting pattern, but my question, as I don't own a saw with a starter section, is... Is the plate thinner at the nose as well? Otherwise, it would be more likely to bind where you have the most of the flexable plate between the push and the cut.
Thanks for any input/reply.
Ya I have found that to be WAY more work then it is worth.
Hi James, the teeth on my 5tpi are set way too far. What is the best way to set them back to the middle?
You can put a hammer in a vise with the head facing up and then lay the saw on that hammer and tap them with another hammer. Tapping them between the two Hammer faces will flatten them back down.
@@WoodByWrightHowTook thank you!
If you place a piece of paper between the saw and the hammer head (or anvil surface) and gently tap the tooth facing away from you the thickness of the paper will get you in the ball park of the amount of set you want. (The paper will only compress a small amount when the hammer strikes the tooth, leaving a specific amount of bend to the tooth!) if you want less removal of the set fold the paper over to double the thickness. Most pieces of paper are between 2-4 thousands of thickness.
Comment down below.
New shirt?
Christmas was good!
It's a saw subject....
CDB
Comment down below
Im set on dad jokes for awhile
The Stanley one was also great a play "cowboys and Indians" when I was a kid until my carpenter dad would catch me playing with it. (note for the WOKE: I am 60 therefore it was a normal game when I was a kid)
@10:40 I think you meant to say .005", or 5 thousandths of an inch.
This is a comment, are we all set?
If you really stone your look for Owlsey and play Casey Jones and White Rabbit
This probably only means anything to people born before 1955
James Wright, you've lost some weight huh!?
A little bit.
I'll just set this comment here.
So the antique Stanley is "expensive." OK. But the Bad Axe set is also expensive! I think I'll use the pine board method as being more cost effective. ;-)
You flat work people are at least as bad as we lathe people.... Ask 10 people the same question, and you will get at least a dozen different answers. My first thought with the Bad Axe saw set and the one before it was that the hammer part was spring loaded so you pulled it up and let it go to get the same amount of strike force each time....
Bad Axe makes nice stuff but $250 for a saw set is ridiculous. A great plier type is about 35 bucks. My opinion. Appreciate the video.
This comment will have 0 likes
Wrong
I think I'll be buying replacement saws instead of paying $250
For $250 bucks I can get a lot of scrap pine and I already have plenty of hammers. I will pass on the Bad Axe saw set.
When I first began sharpening my saws, I added way to much set. I didn’t understand the concept and I couldn’t find a video that gave clear instructions. Thank you for resolving this for both myself, and all current & future saw sharpeners’ to come.
Comment down below.
weeeeeh comment stoned bellow
I think you hit the nail - oh saw tooth - on the head with this video! The debate will still be happening as long as wood & saws are around. LOL😏
Thank you. Nice video
Best way to get hammer setting repeatable would be to make a contraption that lifts a hammer a fixed distance and drop it. Next we make this lifting motion foot actuated and...
Intrigued 🤓
OOH!!! NEW TOOL announcement! SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!
Great info
This is exactly how I imagined going to Hogwarts would be like. Advanced magic wand fettrling and it’s controversies”
i have an old pliers set like you showed! that i found cleaning out for my dads estate sale it is rusted up pretty bad but i also have some saws that dont cut very well so am cleaning it up or trying to! very informative vid lots of good information that i didnt know!!!!!!!
first hundredth! I think this was a very valuable video, I wasn't too familiar with hammer setting, and haven't been to excited to use the plier style sets I have found over the years haha
I am to hesitant to saw set a saw. I have 3 Linx saws. I am not looking forward to it.
Hmmm so maybe this is why my saw keeps getting jammed when i cut i get so far it wont even push through or pull out
Thank you Sir.🎉
Set yourself please!
Comment down below.
⚠Only Users Lose Set.
I’m too set in my ways ❤
Thank you!
I'm all set 😊
!
As soon as you showed that Bad Ass tool I thought, That's it! That's the tool I need. Then I went to the Bad Ass website and saw the price! Guess I don't need that tool after all.
Way more about saw setting than I ever imagined. That said, I’m still wondering if the treatment is different for rip and crosscut saws. I imagine it it’s and can intuit out how to do it right I suppose. Unless there’s something to know that wouldn’t be obvious until I have done it a bunch of times. As always, James, great video. You do some really good work putting these together. Thank you.
There is no difference between rip cut and crosscut. The only slight difference is that with rip cut you can do every other tooth in any orientation. With crosscut you do every other tooth but you always want to make sure the point of the tooth is pointed to the outside.
How does the hammer jig make the set more even than just using a punch and a hammer?
because the bend is at the same spot on the tooth every time. it is not about the force but the angle to which it is bent.
set, ready saw.
I put that 1 min before the ending.
I have used a 48” frame saw to rip short (6’ long, 16” dia) logs for quarter-sawing. The logs were green and if the set was inadequate it was difficult to follow the line I scribed with a sharpie. I tried the hammer set method and the wrench set method. Wrench set allowed me to make a wide enough set/kerf so I could more easily steer the blade. Or maybe I was bull-dogging the blade as the log was not neutered?
James, could you answer a question for me, please?
Yes. But I probably won't see the replay if you send me an email I will see it for sure.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo I appreciate your answer. Thank you!
I found several cross-cut saws and blades once. I filed the teeth and set them by trial. I am sure I didn't do a great job, but heck, the saw did cut after I worked on it. I also made a handle for one that did not have a handle. This was back in the 60s when I was going to college.
It is also possible to set a saw whith a screwdriver. It does to teeth at a time. It juste have to put the screwdriver beetwin two teeth and spin it
Thanks for sharing. Have a great 2024 and stay safe.🙂🙂
I saw you had a new video, I set my expectations, you didn't disappoint
Bad Axe wants $250 for their saw set. Just how much do the originals cost? Wow.
I see you're set in your ways.
Now I’m set!
It looks like the screw that adjusts the set in the Bad Axe saw set is loose enough that it could slowly work its way down, thus increasing your set as you go.