I've began to follow N. T. Wright from the UK and what you all are saying here coincides with what he has been preaching for years. I'm glad to hear this.
We would not recommend anyone to follow after NT Wright. Wright undermines the doctrine of justification by faith alone and teaches heresy. The fact that he is correct on many things does not make him a good teacher.
It's been years since I've read him. I believe I was reading through "What St Paul Really Said" and a couple of other works of his. Which of his works are you reading?
@@TheConqueringTruth Currently reading, Revelation for Everyone. Have several more books of his in my stash. I've been watching his videos and have not heard him say anything close to heresy. He preaches salvation through Christ and Christ is the Son of God.
I'll either try to spend some time putting together some notes on him or see if I can find a good comprehensive article on the subject. I might have time tonight but if I don't it won't be until later on in the week.
That's always important. Even when we know what God is going to accomplish, we often don't understand the depth and detail of the means that he is going to use to accomplish it. The point of faith is never to get out of Duty, instead faith allows us to face all things with joy.
The interpretation that was given to me by my teacher brother Buie of Daniel 2:42-44 is that the 10 toes represent the Roman empire in the form of the European Union. These nations sign what is called the treaties of Rome. And it is in these days (which is now) that God will establish his kingdom on earth.
Dispensationalism always treats eschatology based on what is happening now. Darby developed a lot of the principles of dispensationalism in the wake of the French Revolution as the world saw what they considered to be an established Western "Christian" Nation collapse and they said this must be the end.. dispensationalism has continued to develop in this way, always looking at current world events to be the Fulfillment of things that Christ said would happen long ago. The order in the world that has come about since Christ's resurrection must be properly attributed to Christ's Kingdom and the increase of his government.
. Paul was given the Dispensation of Grace for the Gentiles after Israel's fall in unbelief and they diminished. Romans 11:11-12. That's when salvation (was of the Jews) came to the Gentiles.
Perhaps you should do an in-depth study about what it means to be born again. Because you must be born again in order to even see the kingdom of Almighty God. I think this is Paramount.
Here's your problem. You're going to quote John 3 where Jesus is talking to Nicodemus about being born again and seeing and entering the kingdom and you're going to stop there and act like you can teach others that the kingdom of heaven is only for the saved. But Jesus said a lot more than that. He preached the gospel of the kingdom, and so did Paul. He said that the unsaved and the saved will be in it at the same time up until the end of time and then the unsaved/unlawful will be removed. Jesus says this in Matthew 13. He says, "the kingdom of heaven is like a man which sowed good seed into his field. But while men slept his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way." And here's how Jesus interprets it: "the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. " Jesus also said: "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." This is the issue with doctrine. You don't just get to pick one or two verses and act like that's it's. Jesus wasn't kidding when he said that you have to be saved to see his kingdom, but when you read the other things he said, you recognize that he means, or else you are cast out of it and are sent to eternal torment. Those who are saved, will get to enter into the kingdom eternally. But there will be a time, from when Jesus establishes his kingdom to the end of time, where the just and the unjust will live side by side. So, Jesus's own words and teachings are incompatible with many forms of eschatology. No Jesus doesn't establish his kingdom after he destroys all his enemies. The Bible says, "For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet." Now, I'm not saying that we covered every verse that touches on these issues. But we really are trying to deal with the things that Christ establishes and we're trying to line up events that match in scripture. Right before Jesus ascends he tells the disciples that he has been given all authority in heaven and on earth, and so many people do everything in their power to twist that so that it means nothing. Yet, all of human history changes after Christ, to the point where in almost the entire world, we say that we are living in 2024 AD, Anno Domini in the year of our Lord's dominion. That's the extent to which Christi's kingdom has come. So please stop and think before you go taking one verse and making it into a system all by itself. Because all of Christ's words are true, and the church needs to take them seriously. Charles
@@TheConqueringTruth But Christ's Kingdom doesn't come until He returns to earth after Israel's 70th week. Immediately after. But the main point you seem to be missing is that Christ was not talking to the Body of Christ Church. He sent Paul to talk to us. Christ came to fulfill Israel's prophecy. Romans 15:8, so we really can't make His words to Israel about us. Israel is still fallen and diminished (Romans 11:11-12), and blinded (Romans 11:25), and salvation is still with the Gentiles. No one can be saved today by Israel's Gospel (that Israel's promised kingdom is finally at hand. Mark 1:15), because their kingdom is not at hand. Paul tells us that day shall not come except...
No, you just decided that and keep holding to it. But Ephesians teaches you otherwise. Paul actually tells the Gentiles: [11] Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh-who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands- [12] that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. [13] But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. Going so far as to say that Christ , "having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, [16] and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. [17] And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. [18] For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. [19] Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [20] having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, [21] in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, [22] in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. " But even though Christ did this in his flesh, this is "just spiritual" and not an actual reality...
@@TheConqueringTruth Hiw is this "just spiritual and not actual"??? And how is spiritual less real than physical? The things seen are temporal, but they are more real to you? Your doctrine iscway off. BTW, how does this passage in Ephesians refute what I said? It absolutely agrees with me, in fact. It's where my doctrine comes from. Maybe you're reading your theological presuppositions into the text???
Because, Christ said he joined the Jews and Gentiles and you are saying they are still separate. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but you say he's not talking to the body of Christ he's talking to the Jews and so I point you to Ephesians where he said he's brought them together and made of the two one new man and then you go that's what I'm saying so I don't understand how you can reconcile your argument with what Ephesians is saying.
I think you probably meant to include through I Thessalonians 4:17. And the reason we didn't bring that passage up is because there is no real disagreement there. Pretty much believes that is going to happen as it is written, the question is when does it happen and in relation to other events? Dispensationalists generally hold this verse to be describing the pre-tribulation rapture holding that I Thessalonians 4:16-17 speaks of Christ rapturing the church to heaven while events continue to unfold on earth with the "Great Tribulation" as God completes his plan of judging and restoring Israel and destoying his enemies. But Prior to Darby, and the rise of dispensationalism, the church generally did not view this passage in that way and saw it as Christ returning just before he makes a new heaven and a new earth. One of the purposes of this video is to deal with other passages that frame this one. Daniel's vision connects the kingdoms mentioned (Babylon, Medes and Persians, etc) with the start of the kingdom of God and what it is going to accomplish.
"I think"... dispensationalism but talks about workmanship analogical with a person hired to do certain work... "Rapture" is a given term in what our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ mentioned in the last days of how two people walks along then suddenly one left walking alone. It is the same term we give as "the great commision" or "the lord"s supper" so on and so forth... it is biblical.
But your timing is wrong. He lays it out extremely clear. No pre trib verse anywhere in the Bible. 1st Isreal signs a pact allowing then to build the innermost parts of the temple on the mount because the rest is "trodden under foot of the gentiles." 3.5yrs after the contract is signed, the antichrist will commit the abomination of desolation in the temple. He will then command to kill us and jews and force people to take his mark. Some time in the next 3.5yrs, the judgments on man start. We are only subject to wrath of man, not God. We are sealed by the blood. We will not be bothered just like Isreal in the 10 plagues. The rapture is always AFTER the tribulation of those days. Mathew 24, mark 13, luke 21, Thessalonians, etc. Even the end of Revelation, I think it chapter 20. It's after the tribulation and then he says this is the first resurrection. So the first resurrection happens after the tribulation. How can there be a pre trib rapture.
Israel doesn't get raptured before their 70th week of their prophecy. The Body of Christ Church gets raptured before Israel's 70th week. Jesus was talking to Israel according to their prophecy and their doctrine. He sent Paul to the Body of Christ Church when Israel fell and diminished. Romans 11:11-12.
Can you do a review of Stephen Armstrong's Revelation study from Verse by Verse Ministry International to show where the interpretation is wrong? Thank you.
@@melaniehughes8909 why? I am genuinely curious. I'm not arguing. I am not seeing what they are saying from the text and want to see where they believe I have been taught wrong to see if I can gain a better understanding. I respect them and they have changed my mind on other subjects in the past that I was adamant about.
I've started watching the first episode of his walkthrough. I can add it to our list, but my guess is that it will be a while. So far our goal has been to lay eschatological groundwork (and sometimes to tear down the things that have sprung up and obscured the text) so that books like Revelation are approachable.
"Kingdom now" is Pentecostal/charismatic. We're much closer to the Postmillennial position, which would be more like "Kingdom then" or maybe "Kingdom still". How about this, is Jesus reigning now? And what did he mean when he told the disciples that all authority in heaven and on earth had been given to him? Is your argument that Jesus has all authority in heaven and on Earth but does not have dominion over those places?
@@TheConqueringTruthwow. So with your logic, god had all authority in the garden… but wait… Adam and Eve brought corruption. So now are you saying that god made them to sin since he was in authority? The level of cognitive dissonance you must have just getting dressed must be exhausting. While I do not imagine you could read in the Hebrew or cognate rabbinical rhetoric “pearls before swine!” You are the swine meaning just like a pig that looks kosher because it has cloven hoofs, it does not have a kosher stomach (able to process cellulose… the Word). Go find a biblically minded scholar, repent, and for the love of all things holy… be silent.
No. I asked a question, I didn't make the strawman argument that you wrote. It's really cool that you are smarter than us. Also, I deleted your other comment where you made a homosexually perverse reference about us. Do it again and I'll ban you. You can call us swine if you want I suppose.
@@TheConqueringTruth I’m guessing you would delete Paul telling the religious fanatics to cut their balls off implying they are would be better being effeminate? I’m not arguing your question but the content of the video. If all you can conjure up is that I called you swine… instead of explaining your theological contradictions then I believe the metaphorical pearl stands. It is a weak mind and believe if you can’t take course discourse. I’m really sad for those you pretend to lead into truth. I will imagine your silence better than your inability to grapple with the argument. and laughably my comment still shows up. You just muted it for you.
Thank you for acknowledging my intelligence. With doing that I guess you should reconsider your poorly constructed assumptions and spend time learning instead of proof texting. As far as my harsh rude and even vulgar ad hominem rhetoric… you responded with I have a straw man argument but didn’t engage in a health debate because of the way you feel about words? The meaning was “echo chamber” but luckily your sensitive natural was able to cruelly cover your lack of ability to defend your false theology. I really do t care if a false teachers feelings gets hurt. Wake up
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Older Bibles have "departing", not "falling away". Only a literal rapture will bring out the man of sin
You seek a sign, yet the only sign you will be given will be the sign of Enoch: God “took” him prior to judgement…the same “taken” used in other scripture to refer to choosing a wife. Are you so proud as to think all of scripture is easy? The Holy Spirit reveals truth, not your own mind…have a little faith in what He can teach you.
@@markc4176 where is the scripture where Jesus says he will take people to heaven? Asking for scripture is not seeking a sign, it is asking for the truth which is the word of God and not the word of man
@@LionBehavior fyi, the entire Bible is the word of God. In the words of Jesus Himself? “And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.” In the words of Paul: “then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord.” In context we know that both of these reference a place not on the earth, yet at the “second coming,” Jesus actually steps foot onto the earth and stays here to rule for 1000 years.
@@markc4176 The scripture that you didn't bother to write is 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17. This is talking about the coming of Jesus. So we can in Matthew 24 where it talks about the coming of Jesus, so these two books (Matthew 24 & 1 Thessalonians 4 ) are speaking on the same account, the 2nd coming of Jesus that will only happen once. So now, let's see when this will take place. Matthew 24:29-31 Immediately 👉 after the tribulation 👈 of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. 30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. So Jesus only will come after the tribulation, and not to take us to heaven, but to establish his kingdom on earth. We are not going up to heaven, heaven will be right here on earth my friend.
I'm not sure ya'll have read the bible....particular Revelations....how do you figure the world gets to a point where the saints are overcome and slaughtered? You guy might want to do some saudíes that you don't agree with right now and pray for understanding.
Those saints in Revelation are the Great Multitude of believers that come to Christ through Israel preaching their Gospel of the Kingdom in all the world before the end comes from Matthew 24:14. They are not the Body of Christ Church. We are outta here before Israel's 70th week even begins.
@@bugsocsollie1694 No, I'm sorry but you are very wrong. We must be prepared to face tribulation. Messiah told us what would happen and leaving before tribulation is not one of them. Before wrath is poured out we will meet Him in the air. And we are not 'out of here', Messiah reigns on earth for 1k years. Read carefully and you will see. Don't listen to others...read your Bible, understand the correct translation, and pray for understanding.
@@merissacarlisle8043 I do read and study my Bible daily. Jesus was talking to Israel. He came to fulfill Israel's prophecy. Romans 15:8. He was not talking to the Body of Christ Church. He sent Paul to talk to us. Israel will not be raptured before their 70th week of their prophecy begins. The Body of Christ Church is raptured before Israel's 70th week begins. I think you are listening to the wrong people. Paul's doctrine for the Body of Christ Church is not the same doctrine as Israel's. Theirs is according to their prophecy. The Body of Christ Church has no old Testament prophecy.
@merissacarlisle8043 you take Israel's 70th week of their prophecy and try to apply it to the Body of Christ Church, and you think I'm the one confused??? You are mixing together the very things you're supposed to be rightly dividing between: what is meant for Israel (according to their doctrine and prophecy), and what is meant for the Body of Christ Church, who has no OT prophecy. I can help you see the Truth, but only if it's Truth you are seeking.
Well then can you at least give some examples. Because we actually read the text and try to compare New Testament passages to Old Testament passages and we look for scripture to interpret scripture. We tend to stick pretty closely to what the text actually says.
Extremely unhelpful, moronic, and can easily be dismantled by anyone with half a mind to read scriptures as a whole. Please find someone else to listen to.
Can you at least give an example of what is false about it? Because we actually read the text and try to compare New Testament passages to Old Testament passages and we look for scripture to interpret scripture. We tend to stick pretty closely to what the text actually says.
@@TheConqueringTruth I will not deter you from your intent to occupy while God's wrath is poured out, I wish you would repent, you don't have the Spirit of God to lead and guide you. It's not about what you do. it's about Jesus Christ and Him Crucified and Risen and his soon coming. John 6;39 "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day." You show that you don't shew the fruit there fore you false teachers repent. 2 Peter 3:16-18 "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen."
The church will not make the physical world ready for Christ. The whole purpose is to capture and lead the hearts and minds of the lost to the work of what Christ did through missionary, testimony and good works of the spirit. The world will wax worse and worse, in the end days. It's really stupid to say that the church is gonna destroy the idolatrous nations. There are more people in slavery human/sex trafficking than ever before in the past up to now. It's legal to murder unborn babies in many countries and let children cross dress and cut sexual organs off. Some churches go along with this crap and the Vatican and you have the nerve to say we are paving the way for Christ to come back. There will be a reckoning and it will start in the church. For those that are saved and love his appearing will be caught up with the risen dead. The 70th week of Daniel will be carried out to bring the nation of Israel back to God and when its fulfilled and world is in ruins. Many are dead and society is broken. That's when Christ comes back and crushes the antichrists nations and sets his kingdom up.
Good grief! Have y’all even read the Bible. The Word says that at the coming of The Lord it will be like it was in the days of Noah and Lot. In Noah time men’s heart continually evil. So yes things are progressively going to get worse, hence the birth pains Jesus spoke about. There’s also going to be a great falling away before the rapture. I feel sorry for anyone setting under your ministries because you aren’t rightly dividing The Word of Truth.
The great falling away is the rapture, our gathering together unto Him. And it happens before the man of sin is revealed. The man of sin is revealed when he confirms Israel's covenant for one week: Israel's 70th week.
@@bugsocsollie1694 my guy. What the heck to you mean the falling away is the rapture?!? All one must do it is pick up a Westcott and Hort Greek lexicon and one would know apostasy means apostasy. There are some real false teachers out there that want to say that in a fourth order verb it could mean that because of Matthew saying this that is utter nonsense. Or read the whole passage in context. The rapture won’t happen till the rapture happens, and the son of tradition is revealed? please do not follow these false teachers.
@thecontroversialcontrarian5063 I follow Scripture. It is plain as day that the falling away or Departure is the rapture. It gets very difficult to see any truth in Scripture if you already have bad doctrine. But I can show you a lot of Truth if in fact, it's Truth you want to see. Can you explain your context for falling away? ...just so I can show you that you're wrong, like I was.
@@bugsocsollie1694 the early church fathers interpreted this verse as catching away. Later it was also interpreted as falling away. I take it to mean both. At the same time of the catching away a falling away will be happening simultaneously. One need look no further that the state of todays church to see this is the case. You have denominations ordaining gay clergy and it gets worse from there. Yes there is a true falling away taking place before our eyes.
@wfmontgomery "later on it was interpreted as falling away..." falling away has always been interpreted as the rapture, the departing. But the way you worded that sentence, it seems you have a completely different meaning for what falling away is. "...but it also means falling away..." what does falling away mean? But more importantly, where do you get the context for this other meaning of "falling away" (other than the rapture)???
I've began to follow N. T. Wright from the UK and what you all are saying here coincides with what he has been preaching for years. I'm glad to hear this.
We would not recommend anyone to follow after NT Wright. Wright undermines the doctrine of justification by faith alone and teaches heresy. The fact that he is correct on many things does not make him a good teacher.
Prove your allegations.
It's been years since I've read him. I believe I was reading through "What St Paul Really Said" and a couple of other works of his. Which of his works are you reading?
@@TheConqueringTruth Currently reading, Revelation for Everyone. Have several more books of his in my stash. I've been watching his videos and have not heard him say anything close to heresy. He preaches salvation through Christ and Christ is the Son of God.
I'll either try to spend some time putting together some notes on him or see if I can find a good comprehensive article on the subject. I might have time tonight but if I don't it won't be until later on in the week.
"Faith isn't about everything turning out okay,
it's about being okay no matter how things turn out."
That's always important.
Even when we know what God is going to accomplish, we often don't understand the depth and detail of the means that he is going to use to accomplish it. The point of faith is never to get out of Duty, instead faith allows us to face all things with joy.
@@TheConqueringTruth Exactly. Faith brings us to our duty 💯
Oh looking forward to this one, I was just reading Daniel yesterday.
We hope you enjoy it!
The interpretation that was given to me by my teacher brother Buie of Daniel 2:42-44 is that the 10 toes represent the Roman empire in the form of the European Union. These nations sign what is called the treaties of Rome. And it is in these days (which is now) that God will establish his kingdom on earth.
Dispensationalism always treats eschatology based on what is happening now. Darby developed a lot of the principles of dispensationalism in the wake of the French Revolution as the world saw what they considered to be an established Western "Christian" Nation collapse and they said this must be the end.. dispensationalism has continued to develop in this way, always looking at current world events to be the Fulfillment of things that Christ said would happen long ago.
The order in the world that has come about since Christ's resurrection must be properly attributed to Christ's Kingdom and the increase of his government.
. Paul was given the Dispensation of Grace for the Gentiles after Israel's fall in unbelief and they diminished. Romans 11:11-12. That's when salvation (was of the Jews) came to the Gentiles.
Perhaps you should do an in-depth study about what it means to be born again. Because you must be born again in order to even see the kingdom of Almighty God. I think this is Paramount.
Here's your problem. You're going to quote John 3 where Jesus is talking to Nicodemus about being born again and seeing and entering the kingdom and you're going to stop there and act like you can teach others that the kingdom of heaven is only for the saved.
But Jesus said a lot more than that. He preached the gospel of the kingdom, and so did Paul. He said that the unsaved and the saved will be in it at the same time up until the end of time and then the unsaved/unlawful will be removed.
Jesus says this in Matthew 13. He says, "the kingdom of heaven is like a man which sowed good seed into his field. But while men slept his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way." And here's how Jesus interprets it: "the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. "
Jesus also said: "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
This is the issue with doctrine. You don't just get to pick one or two verses and act like that's it's. Jesus wasn't kidding when he said that you have to be saved to see his kingdom, but when you read the other things he said, you recognize that he means, or else you are cast out of it and are sent to eternal torment. Those who are saved, will get to enter into the kingdom eternally. But there will be a time, from when Jesus establishes his kingdom to the end of time, where the just and the unjust will live side by side. So, Jesus's own words and teachings are incompatible with many forms of eschatology. No Jesus doesn't establish his kingdom after he destroys all his enemies. The Bible says, "For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet."
Now, I'm not saying that we covered every verse that touches on these issues. But we really are trying to deal with the things that Christ establishes and we're trying to line up events that match in scripture. Right before Jesus ascends he tells the disciples that he has been given all authority in heaven and on earth, and so many people do everything in their power to twist that so that it means nothing. Yet, all of human history changes after Christ, to the point where in almost the entire world, we say that we are living in 2024 AD, Anno Domini in the year of our Lord's dominion. That's the extent to which Christi's kingdom has come. So please stop and think before you go taking one verse and making it into a system all by itself. Because all of Christ's words are true, and the church needs to take them seriously.
Charles
@@TheConqueringTruth But Christ's Kingdom doesn't come until He returns to earth after Israel's 70th week. Immediately after. But the main point you seem to be missing is that Christ was not talking to the Body of Christ Church. He sent Paul to talk to us. Christ came to fulfill Israel's prophecy. Romans 15:8, so we really can't make His words to Israel about us. Israel is still fallen and diminished (Romans 11:11-12), and blinded (Romans 11:25), and salvation is still with the Gentiles. No one can be saved today by Israel's Gospel (that Israel's promised kingdom is finally at hand. Mark 1:15), because their kingdom is not at hand. Paul tells us that day shall not come except...
No, you just decided that and keep holding to it. But Ephesians teaches you otherwise. Paul actually tells the Gentiles:
[11] Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh-who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands- [12] that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. [13] But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Going so far as to say that Christ , "having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, [16] and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. [17] And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. [18] For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. [19] Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [20] having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, [21] in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, [22] in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
"
But even though Christ did this in his flesh, this is "just spiritual" and not an actual reality...
@@TheConqueringTruth Hiw is this "just spiritual and not actual"??? And how is spiritual less real than physical? The things seen are temporal, but they are more real to you?
Your doctrine iscway off. BTW, how does this passage in Ephesians refute what I said? It absolutely agrees with me, in fact. It's where my doctrine comes from. Maybe you're reading your theological presuppositions into the text???
Because, Christ said he joined the Jews and Gentiles and you are saying they are still separate. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but you say he's not talking to the body of Christ he's talking to the Jews and so I point you to Ephesians where he said he's brought them together and made of the two one new man and then you go that's what I'm saying so I don't understand how you can reconcile your argument with what Ephesians is saying.
Rje prime teaching of Rapture is akso not in 1 Cor 15, but 1 Thess 4:13-15.
I think you probably meant to include through I Thessalonians 4:17. And the reason we didn't bring that passage up is because there is no real disagreement there. Pretty much believes that is going to happen as it is written, the question is when does it happen and in relation to other events? Dispensationalists generally hold this verse to be describing the pre-tribulation rapture holding that I Thessalonians 4:16-17 speaks of Christ rapturing the church to heaven while events continue to unfold on earth with the "Great Tribulation" as God completes his plan of judging and restoring Israel and destoying his enemies.
But Prior to Darby, and the rise of dispensationalism, the church generally did not view this passage in that way and saw it as Christ returning just before he makes a new heaven and a new earth.
One of the purposes of this video is to deal with other passages that frame this one. Daniel's vision connects the kingdoms mentioned (Babylon, Medes and Persians, etc) with the start of the kingdom of God and what it is going to accomplish.
"I think"... dispensationalism but talks about workmanship analogical with a person hired to do certain work... "Rapture" is a given term in what our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ mentioned in the last days of how two people walks along then suddenly one left walking alone. It is the same term we give as "the great commision" or "the lord"s supper" so on and so forth... it is biblical.
But your timing is wrong. He lays it out extremely clear. No pre trib verse anywhere in the Bible. 1st Isreal signs a pact allowing then to build the innermost parts of the temple on the mount because the rest is "trodden under foot of the gentiles." 3.5yrs after the contract is signed, the antichrist will commit the abomination of desolation in the temple. He will then command to kill us and jews and force people to take his mark. Some time in the next 3.5yrs, the judgments on man start. We are only subject to wrath of man, not God. We are sealed by the blood. We will not be bothered just like Isreal in the 10 plagues. The rapture is always AFTER the tribulation of those days. Mathew 24, mark 13, luke 21, Thessalonians, etc. Even the end of Revelation, I think it chapter 20. It's after the tribulation and then he says this is the first resurrection. So the first resurrection happens after the tribulation. How can there be a pre trib rapture.
Israel doesn't get raptured before their 70th week of their prophecy. The Body of Christ Church gets raptured before Israel's 70th week. Jesus was talking to Israel according to their prophecy and their doctrine. He sent Paul to the Body of Christ Church when Israel fell and diminished. Romans 11:11-12.
Can you do a review of Stephen Armstrong's Revelation study from Verse by Verse Ministry International to show where the interpretation is wrong? Thank you.
Oh stop
@@melaniehughes8909 why? I am genuinely curious. I'm not arguing. I am not seeing what they are saying from the text and want to see where they believe I have been taught wrong to see if I can gain a better understanding. I respect them and they have changed my mind on other subjects in the past that I was adamant about.
@@jessica7333 sorry, I didn't mean you.
@@melaniehughes8909 oh okay. Have a great day!
I've started watching the first episode of his walkthrough. I can add it to our list, but my guess is that it will be a while. So far our goal has been to lay eschatological groundwork (and sometimes to tear down the things that have sprung up and obscured the text) so that books like Revelation are approachable.
Need to read the rest of Daniel
That would certainly be a good start.
I don’t think they understand what you mean.
Amir Tsarfati has a book on Daniel coming out soon. Check it out.
More kingdom now theology. You guys really need to study your Bibles and let the Holy Spirit be your teacher.
"Kingdom now" is Pentecostal/charismatic. We're much closer to the Postmillennial position, which would be more like "Kingdom then" or maybe "Kingdom still". How about this, is Jesus reigning now? And what did he mean when he told the disciples that all authority in heaven and on earth had been given to him? Is your argument that Jesus has all authority in heaven and on Earth but does not have dominion over those places?
@@TheConqueringTruthwow. So with your logic, god had all authority in the garden… but wait… Adam and Eve brought corruption. So now are you saying that god made them to sin since he was in authority? The level of cognitive dissonance you must have just getting dressed must be exhausting. While I do not imagine you could read in the Hebrew or cognate rabbinical rhetoric “pearls before swine!” You are the swine meaning just like a pig that looks kosher because it has cloven hoofs, it does not have a kosher stomach (able to process cellulose… the Word). Go find a biblically minded scholar, repent, and for the love of all things holy… be silent.
No. I asked a question, I didn't make the strawman argument that you wrote.
It's really cool that you are smarter than us.
Also, I deleted your other comment where you made a homosexually perverse reference about us. Do it again and I'll ban you. You can call us swine if you want I suppose.
@@TheConqueringTruth I’m guessing you would delete Paul telling the religious fanatics to cut their balls off implying they are would be better being effeminate? I’m not arguing your question but the content of the video. If all you can conjure up is that I called you swine… instead of explaining your theological contradictions then I believe the metaphorical pearl stands. It is a weak mind and believe if you can’t take course discourse. I’m really sad for those you pretend to lead into truth. I will imagine your silence better than your inability to grapple with the argument. and laughably my comment still shows up. You just muted it for you.
Thank you for acknowledging my intelligence. With doing that I guess you should reconsider your poorly constructed assumptions and spend time learning instead of proof texting. As far as my harsh rude and even vulgar ad hominem rhetoric… you responded with I have a straw man argument but didn’t engage in a health debate because of the way you feel about words? The meaning was “echo chamber” but luckily your sensitive natural was able to cruelly cover your lack of ability to defend your false theology. I really do t care if a false teachers feelings gets hurt. Wake up
I still believe in premillenialism.
Can anyone read in the Bible where Jesus will come and sneak people off the earth before the tribulation?
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Older Bibles have "departing", not "falling away".
Only a literal rapture will bring out the man of sin
You seek a sign, yet the only sign you will be given will be the sign of Enoch: God “took” him prior to judgement…the same “taken” used in other scripture to refer to choosing a wife. Are you so proud as to think all of scripture is easy? The Holy Spirit reveals truth, not your own mind…have a little faith in what He can teach you.
@@markc4176 where is the scripture where Jesus says he will take people to heaven? Asking for scripture is not seeking a sign, it is asking for the truth which is the word of God and not the word of man
@@LionBehavior fyi, the entire Bible is the word of God. In the words of Jesus Himself?
“And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”
In the words of Paul: “then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
In context we know that both of these reference a place not on the earth, yet at the “second coming,” Jesus actually steps foot onto the earth and stays here to rule for 1000 years.
@@markc4176 The scripture that you didn't bother to write is 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17. This is talking about the coming of Jesus. So we can in Matthew 24 where it talks about the coming of Jesus, so these two books (Matthew 24 & 1 Thessalonians 4 ) are speaking on the same account, the 2nd coming of Jesus that will only happen once. So now, let's see when this will take place.
Matthew 24:29-31
Immediately 👉 after the tribulation 👈 of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
So Jesus only will come after the tribulation, and not to take us to heaven, but to establish his kingdom on earth. We are not going up to heaven, heaven will be right here on earth my friend.
I'm not sure ya'll have read the bible....particular Revelations....how do you figure the world gets to a point where the saints are overcome and slaughtered?
You guy might want to do some saudíes that you don't agree with right now and pray for understanding.
Those saints in Revelation are the Great Multitude of believers that come to Christ through Israel preaching their Gospel of the Kingdom in all the world before the end comes from Matthew 24:14. They are not the Body of Christ Church. We are outta here before Israel's 70th week even begins.
@@bugsocsollie1694 No, I'm sorry but you are very wrong. We must be prepared to face tribulation. Messiah told us what would happen and leaving before tribulation is not one of them. Before wrath is poured out we will meet Him in the air. And we are not 'out of here', Messiah reigns on earth for 1k years. Read carefully and you will see. Don't listen to others...read your Bible, understand the correct translation, and pray for understanding.
@@merissacarlisle8043 I do read and study my Bible daily. Jesus was talking to Israel. He came to fulfill Israel's prophecy. Romans 15:8. He was not talking to the Body of Christ Church. He sent Paul to talk to us. Israel will not be raptured before their 70th week of their prophecy begins. The Body of Christ Church is raptured before Israel's 70th week begins.
I think you are listening to the wrong people. Paul's doctrine for the Body of Christ Church is not the same doctrine as Israel's. Theirs is according to their prophecy. The Body of Christ Church has no old Testament prophecy.
@@bugsocsollie1694 I'm sorry but you are confused, pray for understanding!
@merissacarlisle8043 you take Israel's 70th week of their prophecy and try to apply it to the Body of Christ Church, and you think I'm the one confused??? You are mixing together the very things you're supposed to be rightly dividing between: what is meant for Israel (according to their doctrine and prophecy), and what is meant for the Body of Christ Church, who has no OT prophecy. I can help you see the Truth, but only if it's Truth you are seeking.
What utter nonsense!
I suggest you read and study your Bibles.
Which of the passages that we read from are utter nonsense?
@@TheConqueringTruth I am not referring to Bible, but to your explanations and interpretations.
Well then can you at least give some examples. Because we actually read the text and try to compare New Testament passages to Old Testament passages and we look for scripture to interpret scripture. We tend to stick pretty closely to what the text actually says.
Can anyone read in the Bible where Jesus is going to quietly come and sneak people from the earth? Because I can not find it anywhere.
@@LionBehavior Read 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8. It's not a secret any more, but Paul does show two separate comings of Christ.
Extremely helpful!!
Thank you dearly!
It's an honor to know you guys!
Extremely unhelpful, moronic, and can easily be dismantled by anyone with half a mind to read scriptures as a whole. Please find someone else to listen to.
False teaching
Can you at least give an example of what is false about it? Because we actually read the text and try to compare New Testament passages to Old Testament passages and we look for scripture to interpret scripture. We tend to stick pretty closely to what the text actually says.
@@TheConqueringTruth I will not deter you from your intent to occupy while God's wrath is poured out, I wish you would repent, you don't have the Spirit of God to lead and guide you. It's not about what you do. it's about Jesus Christ and Him Crucified and Risen and his soon coming. John 6;39 "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day." You show that you don't shew the fruit there fore you false teachers repent. 2 Peter 3:16-18 "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen."
The church will not make the physical world ready for Christ. The whole purpose is to capture and lead the hearts and minds of the lost to the work of what Christ did through missionary, testimony and good works of the spirit. The world will wax worse and worse, in the end days. It's really stupid to say that the church is gonna destroy the idolatrous nations. There are more people in slavery human/sex trafficking than ever before in the past up to now. It's legal to murder unborn babies in many countries and let children cross dress and cut sexual organs off. Some churches go along with this crap and the Vatican and you have the nerve to say we are paving the way for Christ to come back. There will be a reckoning and it will start in the church. For those that are saved and love his appearing will be caught up with the risen dead. The 70th week of Daniel will be carried out to bring the nation of Israel back to God and when its fulfilled and world is in ruins. Many are dead and society is broken. That's when Christ comes back and crushes the antichrists nations and sets his kingdom up.
Good grief! Have y’all even read the Bible. The Word says that at the coming of The Lord it will be like it was in the days of Noah and Lot. In Noah time men’s heart continually evil. So yes things are progressively going to get worse, hence the birth pains Jesus spoke about. There’s also going to be a great falling away before the rapture. I feel sorry for anyone setting under your ministries because you aren’t rightly dividing The Word of Truth.
The great falling away is the rapture, our gathering together unto Him. And it happens before the man of sin is revealed. The man of sin is revealed when he confirms Israel's covenant for one week: Israel's 70th week.
@@bugsocsollie1694 my guy. What the heck to you mean the falling away is the rapture?!? All one must do it is pick up a Westcott and Hort Greek lexicon and one would know apostasy means apostasy. There are some real false teachers out there that want to say that in a fourth order verb it could mean that because of Matthew saying this that is utter nonsense. Or read the whole passage in context. The rapture won’t happen till the rapture happens, and the son of tradition is revealed? please do not follow these false teachers.
@thecontroversialcontrarian5063 I follow Scripture. It is plain as day that the falling away or Departure is the rapture. It gets very difficult to see any truth in Scripture if you already have bad doctrine. But I can show you a lot of Truth if in fact, it's Truth you want to see.
Can you explain your context for falling away? ...just so I can show you that you're wrong, like I was.
@@bugsocsollie1694 the early church fathers interpreted this verse as catching away. Later it was also interpreted as falling away. I take it to mean both. At the same time of the catching away a falling away will be happening simultaneously. One need look no further that the state of todays church to see this is the case.
You have denominations ordaining gay clergy and it gets worse from there. Yes there is a true falling away taking place before our eyes.
@wfmontgomery "later on it was interpreted as falling away..." falling away has always been interpreted as the rapture, the departing. But the way you worded that sentence, it seems you have a completely different meaning for what falling away is. "...but it also means falling away..." what does falling away mean? But more importantly, where do you get the context for this other meaning of "falling away" (other than the rapture)???