8:36 I am not an Ag pilot but this concept was taught to me by my instructor during my ppl training and is in my opinion the MOST important thing any pilot can practice in relation to spins/stalls. This concept for teaching that the use of rudder is key to leveling the wings during a stall recovery is incredibly important. Great video.
Thank you Wayne for posting this, even if it was a couple decades ago, still holds true! I'm brand new to AG flying and I'm trying to watch every safety related AG flying video there is.
but even the best can come undone, he was very lucky to survive the turbo raven crash, it wasn't because of his piloting skill though he had some type of mechanical issue that effected the prop pitch angle.
@@gogogeedus IIRC, the prop did not come out of beta (reverse pitch). Small world...Waynes dad, Dr. Handley, delivered my wife into this world in 1961!
@@gogogeedus I don't recall specifically what caused the failure but I'll ask my buddy I fly with as he was working in Wayne's shop during or just before that time and I think he knows some details.
you probably dont care at all but does someone know a way to get back into an Instagram account? I stupidly forgot my account password. I would appreciate any help you can offer me
He should’ve mentioned A/C weight. Significantly decreasing recoverable altitude ..daylight and dark difference. covering of the stall (sloppy flying) practice was spot on . I’ll have to assume he was flying a completely empty 502.
Some CFI posted here years ago something like Do "Teardrop Turns" and avoid those flirting with a stall "Hammerhead Turns". Teardrop turns will add only a few seconds more to each pass. Better lose a minute in your life, than lose your life in a minute.
Why do CFIs not make students fly some sessions using rudder only maneuvering? Most trainers are so forgiving that rudder use is almost optional. I learned to fly in the 70’s and my initial instructor had already had me soloing. Pete Harris who owned the FBO switched my instructor to a newly retired AF Col. who flew F-4s in Vietnam Nam. We did a flight which he ended in the first 15 minutes and told me I knew nothing about flying. He started me back at square one, tore down all the bad habits and trained me right. Hard on the ego but I’ve thanked him every day.
Flying around using rudder only is the epitome of "bad habit" Keeping your feet on the floor will keep you safe if you don't know what you're doing. The rudder exists only to keep the airplane nose and fuselage aligned with the apparent wind. I.e. not skidding or slipping (fishtailing). It can also be used to induce intentional slips for energy control (increase drag/improve forward view when landing). But most people abuse the rudder and end up skidding. Which is lethal. Flying sessions where rudder is used as the only means of control is the definition of training one's own feet to kill then someday in the classic base-to-final turn.
Easy. Specially when heavy. Dont do those stupid defying the stall Hammerhead Turn. Do only Teardrop Turn. And with second turn towards the crosswind if any. Hammerhead turns save a few seconds. Teardrop Turns saves your life.. I was a student of Emergency LowManeuvering CFI.
Isn’t it true that the adverse yaw created by the drooping aileron makes a lot of added drag to that wing slowing it down as well? I probably should go fly and feel this before commenting but thought opinions from others could be interesting. Such a great video, glad Juan linked to it.
Aileron deflection generates drag. Up-aileron deflection, at positive angle of attack, generates forward thrust due to negative lift-vector being angled forward. Adverse yaw is due in part to both forward thrust of up-going aileron and excess induced drag of downward deflected aileron. Both generate forces opposite to desired turn direction.
@@EllipsisAircraft Yes, any and all control surface deflections make drag, but using it as a benefit can be hard for people to understand. I've been able to help other pilots with their crosswind technique and understanding by doing a fast taxi on a no wind day, and showing full aileron deflection in both directions, showing how much side force you can feel it put onto the nosewheel, it really helped them understand why you begin the takeoff roll with full aileron deflection towards the wind, and how it helps cancel out the effects of the wind hitting the vertical stabilizer trying to turn the plane into the wind. Then it clicks for them how you can fly with the wing slightly low into the crosswind, and opposite rudder if done correctly makes the plane straight with the runway for landing. I really struggle with explaining it, especially in writing, thanks for your reply.
@@waynenocton absolutely! It's incredible how much control ailerons give you when taxiing. Especially tailwheels. I have 100h Citabria time. I'm aways amazed how much yaw authority those ailerons provide on the ground! Slow flight is another great place to show "feet on the floor" adverse yaw (and aileron induced spins).
I wish in the description, Posters would please post the year of production and other credits. Im sure this was not made in 2016. After carefully scrolling thru the end I saw 19XX but it is not legible with my eyes. It should be common courtesy to do this.
I think they need to build the air cat’s more safer like taking an air racer like a p51D mustang and put all that into an air cat so the pilot has more control over the airplane at lower speeds and not have to worry about the stall roll witch I call the death roll but that’s me this was a very great crash corse on the stall turn and how to recover it
''...the Turbo Raven was destroyed after the engine failed to deliver power during one such approach at the California International Airshow at Salinas Municipal Airport. He was seriously injured, but made a full recovery, and was flying within a month after the accident. Handley continues to train, coach, and evaluate aerobatic students and airshow pilots from the ground and in flight as well as presenting safety seminars on spins and unusual attitudes.[4]...''
PT6-A is not made for airshow aerobatics. The propeller gave out and went flat-pitch in a vertical down-line maneuver. He had no excess thrust to accelerate beyond a certain low speed.
It’s not easy to just drop a Garrett or Pratt turbo prop into an experimental airframe. The engines require different flight idle and blade angles for different aircraft depending on what your requirements are. Some even require additional hardware to change min blade angle for taxi verses min blade angle in the flare, there is more to it than meets the eye. Don’t mess around with them, you are going to skin your knee!
I'm not a professional pilot, but you mentioned something else at the end... fatigue. Bet you can't guess when I'm betting you'll be more likely to screw up, and more likely to botch the recovery.
Managers pushing the pilots to the most dangerous turns to save a few seconds on each turn, even if that can kill you. Those guys should be shot for pushing pilots to die for a few minutes saved on each load..
I learned more from this video, than all of my instructors combined ! Thank you Wayne Handley.
Blancolirio sent me here. Fantastic video that all pilots should watch..
Me too.
Same 😂
8:36 I am not an Ag pilot but this concept was taught to me by my instructor during my ppl training and is in my opinion the MOST important thing any pilot can practice in relation to spins/stalls. This concept for teaching that the use of rudder is key to leveling the wings during a stall recovery is incredibly important. Great video.
Thank you Wayne for posting this, even if it was a couple decades ago, still holds true! I'm brand new to AG flying and I'm trying to watch every safety related AG flying video there is.
I'm pretty sure this video has saved a couple of lives
absolute high level knowledge here
Thanks for this…really clear…72…just qualified PPL…in a tomahawk.🏴
Wish I could learn to fly from this man or someone like him.
You just did! 😀
Best instructional video I've seen. Totally real.
but even the best can come undone, he was very lucky to survive the turbo raven crash, it wasn't because of his piloting skill though he had some type of mechanical issue that effected the prop pitch angle.
@@gogogeedus IIRC, the prop did not come out of beta (reverse pitch). Small world...Waynes dad, Dr. Handley, delivered my wife into this world in 1961!
@@OhMySack What was the issue that caused the hard landing?do you know!,yes its a small world.Hes got safe hands hence the name.
@@gogogeedus I don't recall specifically what caused the failure but I'll ask my buddy I fly with as he was working in Wayne's shop during or just before that time and I think he knows some details.
you probably dont care at all but does someone know a way to get back into an Instagram account?
I stupidly forgot my account password. I would appreciate any help you can offer me
Thank you for this life saving instruction.
He should’ve mentioned A/C weight. Significantly decreasing recoverable altitude ..daylight and dark difference. covering of the stall (sloppy flying) practice was spot on . I’ll have to assume he was flying a completely empty 502.
Some CFI posted here years ago something like Do "Teardrop Turns" and avoid those flirting with a stall "Hammerhead Turns". Teardrop turns will add only a few seconds more to each pass. Better lose a minute in your life, than lose your life in a minute.
I did, but cant find the comment now..
Excellent explanations by a very experienced ag pilot.
Why do CFIs not make students fly some sessions using rudder only maneuvering? Most trainers are so forgiving that rudder use is almost optional. I learned to fly in the 70’s and my initial instructor had already had me soloing. Pete Harris who owned the FBO switched my instructor to a newly retired AF Col. who flew F-4s in Vietnam Nam. We did a flight which he ended in the first 15 minutes and told me I knew nothing about flying. He started me back at square one, tore down all the bad habits and trained me right. Hard on the ego but I’ve thanked him every day.
Some cfi's and DPE's are only into teaching mild maneuvering. They avoid teaching what is hard for them, but very important hard maneuvers..
My initial CFI back in 1991 taught me the falling leaf in a C 172. I was taught young that rudder, not aileron, is the way to keep from spinning.
Flying around using rudder only is the epitome of "bad habit"
Keeping your feet on the floor will keep you safe if you don't know what you're doing.
The rudder exists only to keep the airplane nose and fuselage aligned with the apparent wind. I.e. not skidding or slipping (fishtailing).
It can also be used to induce intentional slips for energy control (increase drag/improve forward view when landing).
But most people abuse the rudder and end up skidding. Which is lethal. Flying sessions where rudder is used as the only means of control is the definition of training one's own feet to kill then someday in the classic base-to-final turn.
This subject needs to be a part of all ab initio flight school curriculum . In my time rudder emphasis was a part of stall recovery lessons.
Excellent video.
Great instruction Wayne, Dad says hello!
Very informative, thank you.
Nothing is more effective than wrong rudder.
Easy. Specially when heavy. Dont do those stupid defying the stall Hammerhead Turn. Do only Teardrop Turn. And with second turn towards the crosswind if any. Hammerhead turns save a few seconds. Teardrop Turns saves your life.. I was a student of Emergency LowManeuvering CFI.
thank you
Great information!!
he knows his stuff listen
exactly!
Isn’t it true that the adverse yaw created by the drooping aileron makes a lot of added drag to that wing slowing it down as well? I probably should go fly and feel this before commenting but thought opinions from others could be interesting. Such a great video, glad Juan linked to it.
yes it adds drag thats exactly why you don't want to pick a stalling wing with the stick like he said, you can only pick it up with opposite rudder.
Aileron deflection generates drag.
Up-aileron deflection, at positive angle of attack, generates forward thrust due to negative lift-vector being angled forward.
Adverse yaw is due in part to both forward thrust of up-going aileron and excess induced drag of downward deflected aileron. Both generate forces opposite to desired turn direction.
@@EllipsisAircraft Yes, any and all control surface deflections make drag, but using it as a benefit can be hard for people to understand. I've been able to help other pilots with their crosswind technique and understanding by doing a fast taxi on a no wind day, and showing full aileron deflection in both directions, showing how much side force you can feel it put onto the nosewheel, it really helped them understand why you begin the takeoff roll with full aileron deflection towards the wind, and how it helps cancel out the effects of the wind hitting the vertical stabilizer trying to turn the plane into the wind. Then it clicks for them how you can fly with the wing slightly low into the crosswind, and opposite rudder if done correctly makes the plane straight with the runway for landing. I really struggle with explaining it, especially in writing, thanks for your reply.
@@waynenocton absolutely! It's incredible how much control ailerons give you when taxiing. Especially tailwheels. I have 100h Citabria time. I'm aways amazed how much yaw authority those ailerons provide on the ground! Slow flight is another great place to show "feet on the floor" adverse yaw (and aileron induced spins).
I want one of those models. Please tell me where to get one.
Excellent!
I wish in the description, Posters would please post the year of production and other credits. Im sure this was not made in 2016. After carefully scrolling thru the end I saw 19XX but it is not legible with my eyes. It should be common courtesy to do this.
1996
Too tight Hook Turnbacks are too dangerous, if power, is much safer to do the Teardrop Turnback.
I think they need to build the air cat’s more safer like taking an air racer like a p51D mustang and put all that into an air cat so the pilot has more control over the airplane at lower speeds and not have to worry about the stall roll witch I call the death roll but that’s me this was a very great crash corse on the stall turn and how to recover it
you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about haha. really? a p51D has elliptical wings, learn your facts before posting shit
An air racing P-51D is arguable the most dangerous and difficult to fly aircraft devised by man.
This lends heavily to aerial fire suppression.
Wayne handley and "the raven"
The pilot here was lucky to survive, never mind being able to fly again.
''...the Turbo Raven was destroyed after the engine failed to deliver power during one such approach at the California International Airshow at Salinas Municipal Airport. He was seriously injured, but made a full recovery, and was flying within a month after the accident.
Handley continues to train, coach, and evaluate aerobatic students and airshow pilots from the ground and in flight as well as presenting safety seminars on spins and unusual attitudes.[4]...''
PT6-A is not made for airshow aerobatics. The propeller gave out and went flat-pitch in a vertical down-line maneuver. He had no excess thrust to accelerate beyond a certain low speed.
It’s not easy to just drop a Garrett or Pratt turbo prop into an experimental airframe. The engines require different flight idle and blade angles for different aircraft depending on what your requirements are. Some even require additional hardware to change min blade angle for taxi verses min blade angle in the flare, there is more to it than meets the eye. Don’t mess around with them, you are going to skin your knee!
Better man
I'm not a professional pilot, but you mentioned something else at the end... fatigue.
Bet you can't guess when I'm betting you'll be more likely to screw up, and more likely to botch the recovery.
Managers pushing the pilots to the most dangerous turns to save a few seconds on each turn, even if that can kill you. Those guys should be shot for pushing pilots to die for a few minutes saved on each load..
There's not much time between hero and zero when you are that low to the ground, and being tired would not help.
These guys work 16-18 hour days during peak busy season. You have about 6 weeks per year to pay for a $2M plane.
Better do Teardrop Turns, not Hammerhead Turns. Too many stalling on those. Specially when tired, dont to Hammerhead turns. Logical..
Who does hammerhead turns?