Adding an Electric Brake to a Treadmill Motor Experimenting With Braking Resistor Size

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  • Опубліковано 7 вер 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 73

  • @charleskutrufis9612
    @charleskutrufis9612 2 місяці тому

    I spent 4 bucks this morning on a thousand $ worth of instruction. Not to mention of the hours of research saved. Appreciate you.

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  2 місяці тому

      I am glad I can help. Don't hesitate to reach out as a comment on one of my videos or through my website if any questions come up.

  • @aguycalledlucas
    @aguycalledlucas Рік тому +1

    I’m loving this series. Now I can’t wait until the next one.

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  Рік тому +1

      Sad part is you will need to wait a couple weeks. I have a video on a different topic that will drop before the next one in this series does.

    • @rayg436
      @rayg436 Рік тому

      @@dazecars aww sad to hear that
      but I will be waiting for your next video nonetheless.

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  Рік тому

      @@rayg436 My channel has a followings from several different interest and I need to spread it out a bit 😁 the footage for the automated system video has been shot and it is in the editing stage so it won't be too long.

  • @wantlessobject
    @wantlessobject Рік тому

    Awsome! Definitely the best place to go for the detailed info.
    Thanks for sharing.

  • @stevenjozefik659
    @stevenjozefik659 4 місяці тому

    Use 4 , and mount / screw them to a good heatsink with thermal paste . The max rating on those resistors requires heat a heatsink.

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  4 місяці тому

      Those smaller resisters were just for testing to find the "sweet spot". The bigger ones I have don't hardly even get warm.

  • @tmichie99
    @tmichie99 Рік тому

    Thanks for doing the testing so I don't have to

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  Рік тому

      That is what I am here for

  • @charleskutrufis9612
    @charleskutrufis9612 2 місяці тому

    Thanks!

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  2 місяці тому

      Again very much appreciated!!

  • @paulmanhart4481
    @paulmanhart4481 Рік тому

    So, you want to maximize Wattage while reducing resistance?
    These yellow resistors come in different Ohms, like 2, 4 etc.
    Lower Ohms means faster stop, but increases risk of motor?
    Sorry, still confused a bit. But I’ll follow your advice.
    Does the two position DPDT switch go after the 3PDT rotary switch?
    Trying to see how all this lays out.
    Thanks Daze. Another great video.
    P

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  Рік тому

      The 3PDT switch is in place of the DPDT switch. the third pole is what controls the relay. Yes you want to max watts while getting the correct ohms, a 1-2 ohms is ideal, and then use a high watt resistor like the silver ones I show. Those are a designed "braking resistor" but they are also expensive. The experiment showed the big silver ones are way more than what is needed and a person can use the smaller resistors wired correctly to dial it in for their system and save a few $$. When I conducted that experiment I really expected to burn out some of the smaller resistors.

  • @daxgilmore4374
    @daxgilmore4374 Рік тому

    I'm using an old GM ceramic ignition Ballast Resistor.
    Works great.
    Btw.
    Love your work..

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  Рік тому

      What is the ohmage?

    • @daxgilmore4374
      @daxgilmore4374 Рік тому

      I believe that its 1.5ohms.
      The motor im using has 1.3Ponys from memory?
      With a 2100 series Power Supply.
      I've wired it up to a 3position/6terminal rotary switch, channelled through 2 large capacity relays.
      Switch pos 1 =Relay1 =forward
      Switch pos 3 =Relay2 =reverse
      Switch pos 2 = 0 (off)
      Motor + and Motor - are arranged to short out through the Ballast Resistor through each of the relays NC terminals.
      ie.
      Motor+ >relay1 Com
      Motor- >relay2 Com
      Each relay coil energised through rotary switch using separate 24v.
      V+ and V- wired to both relays NO terminals.
      Each end of the Ballast Resistor is wired to one NC terminal of both relays.

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  Рік тому

      @@daxgilmore4374 1.5 ohms would be in that "good working range" The rest of your comment is practically walking all over next weeks video 😁😁😁 I too automated the system by using a relay but I was able to do it with a single relay. Stay tuned that video should drop next Thursday

    • @daxgilmore4374
      @daxgilmore4374 Рік тому

      @@dazecars Haha..
      I'm glad you could make sense of all that.
      I figured you'd be able to fill in the finer details yourself.
      I did initially intend to use a single relay.
      But I like the way the rotary switch operates over the rocker.
      My PWM Sig Gen doesn't include the "on/off" button.
      So I'll be using Position2 on the Rotary, to act a 3rd relay to cut the signal to the 2100.
      If my assumption is correct.
      I'll be able to just turn the rotary back 'on' and it will start back up at the previously set value.
      Rather than having to turn the PWM back to '0' and then ramping back up to speed. Right?
      Looking forward to seeing your next video. Your ability to explain things in simple terms without all the bloat, is appreciated.
      Cheers.

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  Рік тому

      @@daxgilmore4374 I too am using the rotary switch as my direction controll and as way to engage the brake. It switches my direction and cuts power to the DPDT relay when in neutral. I will also wire an emergency stop switch in series with the master power. The final result is a setup where the brake engages if I cut main power, hit the emergence stop switch, or go to the neutral position when switching directions. As to you situation of using the switch to cut the signal to the MC2100 I think that should work but I can not say for sure. I have not messed with that as an option being that my PWM signal generator came with an on/off switch. I don't see why it wouldn't work but then again there are safety's in the 2100 that sometimes cause odd functioning.

  • @elonf6164
    @elonf6164 Рік тому

    I'm also loving this series. I'm still hung up on a good choke solution. The recommended vendor was out and said treadmills haven't used them in years. My first acquisition used a mc2100 so no choke. eBay seems overpriced. I checked into some vendors for new ones. This seems semi promising, but I'm not 100% clear on how to properly spec one. I'm thinking 10A is probably right and about $50. I also looked into new drives such as kbic-125. This seems promising but still expensive, especially with a proper heat sink. I also looked into your video on making my own. I think I'm going to stay away from microwaves and transformers in general at this stage of my diy... I'm left thinking PWM that drove the motor in the first place or sourcing professional drives are in the end the best for me vs SCR and choke . My 2 cents.

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  Рік тому +1

      It's all about what you have available, what you are willing to spend, and how you plan to use the system. As I have said I prefer the SCR to the Mc-2100 but the MC-2100 is still a good option. Be carful with some of the aftermarket PWM. A lot of them are lower amps. If you power a 20 amp motor with a 10 amp power supply you will loos torque as there is a direct relation between amps and torque.

    • @elonf6164
      @elonf6164 Рік тому

      @@dazecars I think you said as much in one of your videos but it didn't click with all the new information. That makes sense, but I'm wondering if it matters at slower speeds? I guess put another way is the loss of torque constant across all speeds or only at the top end that I wouldn't be using?

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  Рік тому +1

      @@elonf6164 Once the power supply is putting out sufficient voltage to overcome the resistance of the coils in the motor torque becomes constant. In plane english at the very bottom of the speed range you will not quite have as much torque but once you get past the initial lower area torque becomes constant through the rest of the RPM range. I always recommend maximizing RPMs through gearing. In other words if you treadmill motor is 4000 RPM and you only need a max of 1000 RPMs, gear your setup at 4:1 That will give you 4 times the torque and even slower speeds and then the advantage of being variable from 50-1000.

  • @coryknipe5471
    @coryknipe5471 6 місяців тому

    Great idea. Now how do we slow the motor quicker? Add more resistors or increase ohms?

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  6 місяців тому +1

      Lower ohms will slow faster

    • @coryknipe5471
      @coryknipe5471 6 місяців тому

      @@dazecars Thanks for getting back to me 👍

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  6 місяців тому

      👍

  • @nickhardiman2142
    @nickhardiman2142 Рік тому

    I like this series and am learning I lot thanks.
    Have you looked into the way a treadmill controls the speed of the motor?
    As the way your driving your motors you are losing a lot of potential torque especially at low RPM ie if your running a motor at 25% power you only got 25% torque. Where a treadmill monitors the RPM of the motor and will increase the pwm time until it reaches 100% so basically running the motor at Max volts even though it's running at 25% speed.
    I hope that this makes sense. As I think this would be really helpful especially if trying to run a drill press. Witch is what I want as need as much torque as possible at low RPM s.
    Thanks for all your great advice.

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  Рік тому

      I am glad you are enjoying the e-brake series. This Thursday I will be dropping the video on making it automated. As to your comments on power supples, I mean no disrespect but your information is incorrect. First using an SCR voltage controller uses the exact same technique to “lower the voltage” that a PWM does. The only difference is which side of the rectifier the switching happens on. With a PWM AC is converted to DC and then the pulsing happens. With an SCR the pulsing happens on the AC side and then it is converted to DC. Both are applying max voltage in short on off bursts with the same basic result. The biggest difference being cleaner more consistent power from a PWM. The second issue and this is a big one, voltage DOES NOT EFFECT TORQUE. Reducing the voltage ONLY effects RPMs. Torque is determined by amps not volts (* with one caveat see below). The amperage flowing through the coil is what generates the magnetic field, and the strength of the magnetic field is what creates the torque. If you take a 20 amp motor and hook it to a 12V car battery you will get max torque because the battery has more then enough amps to max the motor. On the flip side a 12 amp PWM on a 20 amp motor will produce less torque even though it is switching on and off "MAX VOLTS".
      *Now there is an exception to all this. The coil in the motor has a small amount of resistance and a minimum voltage is required to overcome that resistance to start the motor turning and then slightly more voltage is required before max amps is reached but once max amps is reached, either max draw on the motor or max output on the power supply than max torque has also been reached regardless of the power source: SCR PWM or other.

    • @nickhardiman2142
      @nickhardiman2142 Рік тому

      @@dazecars Hi thanks for your reply. No disrespect taken at all I'm no electronics expect so welcome the feedback greatly.
      What I'm saying is an scr or a pwm pulse the input voltage. So at low RPM no load the pulse is short say 10% duty cycle so if you try and stall the motor it's quite easy to stall.
      But a treadmill monitors the RPM of the motor and if the RPM starts to drop it will increase the duty cycle and try and keep the same RPM. I have experimented with a clamp meter around the live output from the wall and with the scr control and low RPM I can stall the motor easily and the amps only rise to 2amps if I do it on the treadmill even at lower RPM it's much much harder to stall and the amps rise to over 10amps as it increases the duty cycle of the pwm to try and keep the revs the same.
      Hope this explains what I'm getting at.

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  Рік тому

      ​@@nickhardiman2142 I am not disregarding your experiments. I am sure the results are accurate but that does not mean they are universal. If the treadmill controller has a tac signal, then yes it will compensate. I have no doubt your SCR was not up to the task but that has not been my experience. I single point thread grade 8 bolts all the time. That means very low RPMs and very high tool pressure requiring extreme torque and I have more then enough. I however am NOT running the cheep SCR that most youtube video recommend. I too have conducted a bunch of real world experiments and have found the SCR I am using works as well if not better than the treadmill PWM. We could go back and forth based on our experience arguing which one is better but we have different results from different setups. 😁

  • @Jay.perez1
    @Jay.perez1 Рік тому

    Hey DazeCars, Great videos on the treadmill conversions ! Just bought the 4 ohm resistor pack you recommended and about to hook them up in parallel to the MC1650LS power supply. I'm not positive about where to connect them though and hoping you can comment back to clarify it for me. The motor has Black and Red wires going to the brushes but has Black and Blue wires going to the power switch. There's also a Black and White spade connection on the circuit board labeled LG2 (Line) and LG3 (Neutral). Would you please bounce back and let me which ones to use or point me to one of your videos that show this ? Thanks ! Jay

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  Рік тому +1

      Watch the third video in the series as that should answer some of your questions. The resisters connect to the positive and negative wires from the motor (ON THE DC SIDE) BUT you MUST run a braking switch or a relay. Just hooking the resisters up without a way to isolate them from the power supply when the system is on will cause all kinds of problems starting as small as reduced motor speed but up to and including power supply failure, resisters overheating and personal injury. ua-cam.com/video/9dJodq7lkEs/v-deo.html If you hook the resisters up to the AC side or even worse some how cross connect the AC and DC side the results would be even more disastrous. Make sure everything is hooked up correctly and use this info at your own risk.

    • @Jay.perez1
      @Jay.perez1 Рік тому

      ​@@dazecarsThanks for the very quick reply. I understand the importance of having the double pole/double throw switch to disconnect the power before engaging the resistors. However, I'm still not positive where to connect the resistors. I believe it would be on the Black and Red wires going to the brushes on the motor would appreciate it if you could confirm that as there's also the Blue temperature sensor wires in series with everything else.

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  Рік тому +1

      @@Jay.perez1 yes it is the red and black “brushed” wires

    • @Jay.perez1
      @Jay.perez1 Рік тому

      @@dazecars Thanks again. Going to add the braking resistors and then eliminate the soft start per your video.

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  4 місяці тому

      👍

  • @jamesjohnson6593
    @jamesjohnson6593 Рік тому

    Where did you buy your mini-mill table at how much stroke is on X & Y

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  Рік тому

      If you are referring to the one on my mill build, this is it. All the specs are in the listing. Let me know if you need something else amzn.to/3Sw7HxK

  • @thehairs2018
    @thehairs2018 Рік тому +1

    You need to try a 1500 to 4500 Watt water heater element instead of resisters. I think you will like the results.

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  Рік тому

      A heating element is a resistor and that resistance converts electricity into heat. Same concept, different packingin for a different application. If I had a used one laying around I could see the advantage but why would I want to spend $20-$40 on a part that is fairly large when I can can use $10 worth of resistors that take up much less space and give me tons of flexibility to optomize the function? For me it doesn't make any sense. A water heater element is an outstanding "bush fix" option but when building something with new parts I don't see any reason not to use the correct parts.

    • @daxgilmore4374
      @daxgilmore4374 Рік тому +2

      Whats the point he asks??
      I'd be positioning the element, as a base plate where i usually place my coffee..😋

    • @thehairs2018
      @thehairs2018 Рік тому +2

      @@daxgilmore4374 In that case you could use an old stove eye under your plate. I always try to use what I have instead of buying something new.

    • @daxgilmore4374
      @daxgilmore4374 Рік тому +3

      @@thehairs2018 Haha.. that would be perfect.
      I also try and use what i have at hand too.
      However, buying a new component is sometimes more cost effective than the time it takes, trying to remember where you last saw the component that you already have..😆

    • @thehairs2018
      @thehairs2018 Рік тому +1

      @@daxgilmore4374 That's easy. As soon as you get home with the new part look close to where you lay the new part down. The one you were looking for will be under it.

  • @paulmanhart4481
    @paulmanhart4481 Рік тому

    Ok Daze. Now I’m confused. How does this fit in to the variable speed drive with 3PDT rotary switch?
    Will this relay work with my 130 VDC motor? If I have 24 VDC relay, then I would need about 100 amps or more, right?

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  Рік тому

      The 3PDT switch does bothe direction and controlls the relay. The third pole is relay control. As to the 80 amp relay that I list should do the job because most times you are not at full speed in fact you use it at way less than full speed 99% of the time. I could not find the "correct" relay in an affordable form. This relay "working" fits into the same concepts as the video I released yesterday.

    • @paulmanhart4481
      @paulmanhart4481 Рік тому +1

      @@dazecars Ok. That’s even more confusing. Let me rewatch your videos, and put together some clear questions.
      I sort of understand what you are doing with the brake, but not sure why it works. Having trouble picturing everything together.
      But Damn! You know your stuff Daze. I am really impressed.

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  4 місяці тому

      👍

  • @MWhitsett-vv8lm
    @MWhitsett-vv8lm Місяць тому

    What if your breaking resistor had 100 ohms and 1000 watts? Is too big a bad thing?

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  Місяць тому +1

      More watts is never an issue because more just means the resistor is set up to handle the current. More ohms slows the breaking action but is easier on the brushes. The sweat spot is 1-2 ohms.

    • @MWhitsett-vv8lm
      @MWhitsett-vv8lm Місяць тому

      @@dazecars Thank you!!

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  Місяць тому

      My pleasure

  • @muzzarobbo
    @muzzarobbo Рік тому

    Hi there,
    I have a 3hp (4750rpm) TM motor with mc-2100(2 capacitor type) and pwm unit and tested running it in reverse for the first time today and it seemed to spark much more under load or rpm. the brushes didnt seem to be offset from radial so would this just be from how they are worn in? should i just let it wear into this new direction or file them flat? Thanks

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  Рік тому

      I think I would let them wear in.

  • @Sunshine22232
    @Sunshine22232 Рік тому

    🤔👍 Thank you

  • @MWhitsett-vv8lm
    @MWhitsett-vv8lm Місяць тому

    My motor sparks at 500w and 0.8 ohms..

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  Місяць тому +1

      1-2 ohms is the butter zone

  • @MWhitsett-vv8lm
    @MWhitsett-vv8lm 2 місяці тому

    I thought that butt to mouth gives you the most resistance. It seems you are doing parallel to increase the watts. I don't understand this calculation really.

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  2 місяці тому +1

      parallel increases watts and decreases ohms. Its a balance between the two and also dependent on the watts and ohms you start with.

    • @MWhitsett-vv8lm
      @MWhitsett-vv8lm 2 місяці тому

      @@dazecars So, ohms is not important? I need to do some reading on this. I thought the flow of electricity was measured in ohm and this is what the brake is trying to achieve.

    • @MWhitsett-vv8lm
      @MWhitsett-vv8lm 2 місяці тому

      @@dazecars Anyways, I finally got my system wired up for testing last night. My wife will only allow me to test it out of our house.. :-) My garage is at another location. Once I get it tested with the relay configuration, I will do some testing and reading on the resistor aspect... I am learning. Thank you for all the information. I am a car guy who has been side tracked by building tools and welding. :-))

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  2 місяці тому +1

      Ohms are very important. It is the resistance and that resistance slows the flow of electrons. Too many ohms and break is not as effective, too few and it’s hard on the brushes. 1-2 ohms is the sweet spot.

    • @dazecars
      @dazecars  2 місяці тому +1

      Car guy with other projects… sounds familiar 😂