Ps love you guys , have to say seeing Nikki and Steven care more about Madi death whilst Eleanor’s is dying on Screen is so authentic that this is my second draft of a response to their and how i felt about it. Agree with Steven it wasn’t a worthy death but had an element of poetry that civilisation killed Eleanor as opposed to the outlaw pirates.
I reckon Steven (& it's only a opinion) that yes Eleanor deserved a revengeful killing by the Pirates, but that would of been way too obvious so in a way I'm happy that the random Spanish dude killed her instead, coz it makes a huge statement to woodes Rogers if he listened to Eleanor in the first place, that he wouldn't of lost her he wouldn't of lost his unborn baby as well & knowing that will torment him for the lost of his life, knowing he's the reason of their deaths!!!
To the end you guys misread Eleanor and even Flint. He lied to her because Flint has ALWAYS respected Eleanor. They both started this series with a vision for Nassau when no one else believed in it and even though he didn't agree with her choices he didn't hate her. Why do you think he trusted her to keep her word in this deal, he didn't even consult Silver, he just said "trust me" because he trusted her. She was his partner before Silver came along.
@@gemelwalters2942 There is not much to add. The hatred of Elenor makes the two so blind that they don't even consider that she wanted to save Maddie. Instead, should their deaths become even more brutal and bigger? They tell with Elenor it was a rollercoaster. It wasn't. All the others were Rollercoaster. She has only ever reacted accordingly to the changing decisions of others. Elenor has always acted in the interest of all of Nassau. That means for the majority of the people who live there. Then came Rogers and her baby. Only then did she redefine her priorities. The others always jumped back and forth.
There is a scene in season 1 where Eleanor's father tells Scott she will get herself killed either by "English noose or Spanish sword". The man who spared her the English noose brought down the Spanish sword. This show is so damn good.
I wrote the same on another reaction to this episode and sorry for the essay - but I really have a lot of things to say about Eleanor's death, because it's really a testament to the beauty of the writing of this show. It sums up her arc and character development so tragically and complexly, yet was still so unexpected. Rodgers definitely knows it's the Spanish that killed her, and that it's his fault because he invited the Spanish there. I think that's part of the tragedy of Eleanor's death for me, that her death is almost entirely the responsibility of her husband who didn't trust her enough - I remember when this aired, we all knew she was going to die eventually, if only from the karma in TV shows, and her being the one responsible for Vane's death, but going out this way was so layered and uniquely tragic for her that I think even those fans who hated her found it somewhat sad. It's weird because a lot of the characters in this show are selfish, but Eleanor gets way more vitriol towards her because of her decisions - and I get why people don't like her, I was very disappointed in her by season 3, but I could see how she got to the place she did and I understand why she did all the things she did too. In particular, I think a lot about her speech from the episode previous about how she's spent her life trying to prove her worth to all these men - especially her father, but to some extent Vane, and Hornigold, and Teach (and even in a different way, Mr Scott, but obviously this relationship has a lot more at play given Mr Scott's arc, but that's an essay for another comment ahaha) - and in a lot of ways, she tries to speak the same language as all these men, but she ends up their enemy in a way only a woman acting in "man's" role could, in these times. She was in a very unique position of power, and got burned for trying to keep up and grasp at this power in the same way nearly every other male character has also done in the show. So, come season 3, she turns on them all, and puts her trust in one final man, Woodes Rodgers, who she believes finally trusts her back in a way no other man has. And then, instead of her death to answer for the death of Vane, she dies because of Rodgers, who once again like her father and all the others, didn't believe in her ability back, or see her as an equal. Remember, this could have all been avoided, if Rodgers had trusted Eleanor when she told him that she had it handled. The sad poetic nature of her death is that she doesn't die in an independent way - she doesn't die due to an action of her own, or a decision that she made autonomously - she doesn't die because of her mistakes, which I think would have been more satisfying for us as an audience, and for her as a person because the person we knew her as was independent and headstrong, and made her own decisions and was forced to live with the consequences. But instead, she dies because of another man who didn't believe in her ability, but that she put everything into wanting him to believe in her. It's deep, complex, and unbelievably sad.
Eleanor telling her father he left her because she wasn't his son always stuck with me. I think if she was a male character her perception amongst viewers would be completely different. Truly one of the most complex characters in a show full of them. She has so many qualities to be admired and so many flaws that cause frustration. Incredibly written character.
@@ljsilver1692 you're so right. Flint killed Gates and we were all mad but they've convinced themselves that his decision made sense but apparently not Eleanors.
Woods didn't see her as an equal? So why did he choose her to advise him in Nassau over any of the English men that accompanied him and why did he put her in charge when he fell ill? There are numerous situations that suggest your take on that is false. Woods screwed up because of his pride and history with pirates but in his own way he also wanted to prove to her that unlawfulness didn't have to prevail in Nassau and that there was still hope for "civilization" there.
@@gemelwalters2942 Yes, I agree, I believe he truly did see her as a gifted person, and did trust her and her opinion - but the fact is I don't believe he saw her as a true and equal partner. He was the one in charge, and she deferred to him still on plenty of occasions. It was still HIS power that he gifted her on those brief moments, not something that was naturally shared between them - the inherent patriarchal dynamic existed between them, even if behind doors he listened to her counsel. And the fact remains that if he had had utter faith in her, he would have trusted that she had a handle on the situation in Nassau, and he would have done as she told him to. He thought that he knew better than she did, on how best to rectify the situation - whether he or she was right or wrong doesn't really matter, because he thought he could just do as he thought was fit, and Eleanor would fall in line behind him. He was proving a point to her, sure, because he believed he was right and had the power to overrule her, instead of listening to her when it counted. Agree to disagree!
This was incredibly put. It's been a while since I've seen the show and it was refreshing to read a genuine perspective on her character that goes beyond just "she's a bitch" or "dumb and betrayed Vane". You really articulated amazingly why it is possible to still understand and feel for this character despite finding her annoying at times as well. Another thing that struck me was when Grandma Guthrie told Max that she held onto a fantasy that Eleanor would one day seek her out and follow in her footsteps. I truly believe that Eleanor could've headed into that trajectory. She had at this point developed to be less emotionally brash, have more patience when it came to enacting her plans and had put more value in trust. She was still herself and at her core, I think it would've driven her mad faking propriety in English society despite her dedication to Rodgers (as seen in the ep where she even fails at sewing). At this stage, she would've been at a perfect state to listen to Grandma Guthrie and learn what she could accomplish as a woman in Grandma Guthrie's world. This wasted potential made Eleanor's death all the more tragic coupled with the fact that the majority of the show's audience hates her guts and refuse to see nuance/reason to think otherwise.
Regardless of how characters die in this show, whether it be in glorious defiance like Teach/Vane or abruptly like Miranda/Eleanor, it's always so impactful to the narrative moving forward.
@@francissellerdude Miranda's death was a central example of one of this show's core themes and proved Flint was right about England. It was the inciting incidence for the trajectory of Flint's arc for the second half of the show. Vane died as a martyr for the pirates and started the rebellion. I didn't want either of them to die but both their deaths were impactful and important for the story
The death of Eleanor feels like the completion of a tragic circle for her character. Her life was shaped by one Spanish raid and her death was the result of another. An example of how damaged she was, was her reactions to Vane and Flint’s final words to her. Vane’s truth caused turmoil but Flint’s lie provided comfort. It’s ultimately tragic that she dies just as she’s finally starting to realise her misplaced values and that there’s more to life than just her ambitions. There’s also poetic symmetry between her and Vane’s deaths. Both acted in retribution against one another and the consequences of those actions eventually lead to their deaths at the hands of the person they loved. ps not shown but when Madi is trying to start the fire and I the only one that found it funny all she needed was a bit of flint? Clearly the most symbolic moment of the series haha
The fact that her husband would've know how traumatic those raids were for her and still instigated it is even more tragic. Also shows what a piece of shit Rogers is. And yes, I definitely chuckled when she handed Madi the flint 😆
I've come to appreciate Eleanor more each time because she is such a humanly flawed character. It makes her much more realistic. I love other characters more but some of them also feel like mythical figures rather than just a flawed person so to speak.
There are some entitled people in this thread that need to chill out and allow N&S to have their raw, live opinions about this show and its characters. This story is too rich, layered and grand to fully comprehend every minuscule detail or connection or theme for every plot line or character. There's just too much happening every episode that is creating sensory overload, especially during your first watch. If you are a person that claims to understand everything about this masterpiece of a story from the start, congrats you must be very smart and I'm happy for you. I'm still learning new things every time I re-watch an episode/reaction and read some insightful comments under each video.
Well said mate. I find it so hypocritical that some people call out other's 'understanding' of the show, especially during a first watch when their own understanding of the story, its characters changed over time after multiple rewatches.
@@jays4402 Agreed. I grew to appreciate Eleanor and Max only on rewatch. The first time around I viewed them as a chore I had to go through. Not sure why because overtime I've grown to love their characters and parallel arcs. These are complex characters that take time to properly understand and appreciate.
I think Eleanor died in the most perfect way possible for the story. Vane warned her about Woods Rogers saying he wasn't any different from the pirates. Eleanor desperately wanted to believe otherwise, and it got her killed. It's also fantastic character development for Woods Rogers and completes the tragic circle of Eleanor's character. Eleanor's mother was killed when Spain came to Nassau the first time, and she's always feared their return the most. What a fitting way for her to go.
I prefer that Eleanor's death is not an act of revenge by someone close to Vane. Instead it feels like the natural culmination of all the choices -- good and bad -- that brought her to that moment. Her story is a tragedy, as is most of the show. Greek Tragedy disguised as a pirate drama. Eleanor was one of the strongest women on the show but she willingly ceded her power back to the patriarchy (in the form of Woodes Rogers) and it killed her. While a part of me wishes she knew what a POS her husband really was, Flint wouldn't do that to her. I believe he genuinely respected her and wanted to give her what peace he could at the end. I love what a natural leader Flint is here. The Redcoats don't even question it, they just fall in line and take orders from him.
I remember when she had this dialogue with Flint when Flint was her captive saying:" all these goddamn men making life difficult for me, bringing me into their wars". Yet everything that happened to her occured because she sided with Rogers and her father. What pisses me off is that I wish her and Flint would have gotten closer to one another. I feel like she would have had a different end. Unfortunately, when he left to get the gold, they never met each other again until it was too late and all the pawns were in place for the battles when he offers himself to be imprisoned. I feel like they could have had more dialogue he was in jail and he may have reasoned with her.
Why was Roger's a POS? Lol because he killed Blackbeard, a pirate who himself killed countless others? I wasn't rooting for Roger's but I'm not so naive as to root for the murderers and thieves. At the end of the day I liked their personal stories but Woods did try to broker peace, he offered what Thomas had implemented.
@@gemelwalters2942 He's a POS for many reasons, namely what he does to his own wife in this episode. Spain's return was Eleanor's biggest fear. Her mother died the last time Spain attacked. You can't tell me she hasn't told Rogers about that at some point in their relationship. He knew she feared Spain and he brought then to the island to destroy everything she had helped build because he simply couldn't let it go. Everyone on this show is a liar and a killer (with the exception of Madi). Some do it for reasons I can relate to easier than others.
@@charleyMD17 he didn't intentionally kill Eleanor so I can't call him a POS for that, otherwise what do we call Flint for what he did to Gates with his own hands? Both Woods and Eleanor realized they'd need to abandon Nassau so I don't think Eleanor was thinking about "what she built" at this point, she just agreed to trade it all so her and Woods could have a future. I agree Woods' pride had a hand in what happened, but then so did Jack, Max, Vane, Flint and pretty much everyone else. All I'm saying is on a list of murderers (not accidental) and thieves it's difficult to somehow consider him the POS for trying to restore order in Nassau.
@@gemelwalters2942 It doesn't matter to me if her death was intentional or not, he knew he was making her worst fear come to life. He knew she was on the island he was bringing thousands of Spanish soldiers to with the order to destroy everything in sight. And what about everyone else on the island? The woman in the green dress we saw the soldiers attacking, no doubt raped and murdered? Yeah, that's Rogers' doing. All the innocent people who got caught in the raid? That's Rogers, too. He intentionally brought that to the people he was suppose to protect as their Governor and chose to do it because of his pride. He's a POS. Trust me, I called Flint some very colorful names when he killed Gates. I still hate that he did that. I guess I don't get on-board for Rogers "restoring order" to Nassau because it's just a polite way to say colonizing. He's pushing Colonial rule onto a foreign land and its people whether they want it or not. It's just more subjugating people who aren't rich white Englishmen.
Steven's talked about how unpredictable this show can be. I remember being so shocked when Eleanor died and yet, when I went back to re-watch the show, there was a scene where Eleanor's father said, "..She will get herself killed, whether by English noose or Spanish sword, it's inevitable." It's crazy how there can be so much foreshadowing, and still feel like there are incredible plot twists. You can never tell where the show is going, and then once things happen it feels so obvious in retrospect.
I never hated Eleanor as a character and I took no delight in her death. She was a very conflicted and complex character, and indicative of just how much better this show was than most of what was on at the time. Her death was sad and tragic (killed by the actions of the man she loved without ever knowing it) and failing to save what was for all intents her sister was the final defeat. For me it's impossible to feel anything but pity for her.
that's a really great way of putting it - I never loved Eleanor like I love some of the other characters, I never hated her like most people seem to, I just felt intense pity for her. her story seems like a tragedy in its truest form, where the events could've been avoided if she had taken different actions, but for the person in the story its the only possible outcome.
Eleanor is the character my feelings changed the most on over the course of the series and even more on rewatches. One first watch I hated her at times but now I see her arc as a big tragedy.
This episode is the most I ever felt for Elenor. No matter her feelings for anyone else, she was raised with Madi. They were practically brought up as sisters until the Spanish raid. She must have felt so many conflicting things, from being so glad that Madi was alive and well, to so betrayed that mr Scott kept that from her. Cuz she wasn’t always the ruthless person we know. When she first took over from her dad, mr Scott helped build her into the person she is today, for his own means, regardless of what it did to her. So long as it helped his island community. As much as I dislike her, Eleanor’s state of being isn’t all on her. She is definitely a product of both her upbringing and environment.
@@Mic-Mak she would be an amazing Cersei! And now I’m curious, who were you glad to see get popped? Was it Stringer? Cuz I’m always satisfied when he gets bodied lol
i loved ponytail flint, especially when he had curled his moustache up! it was such a good look for him, i guess nikki and i have very different tastes!
RIP Madi. Truly her father's daughter in how she was always the voice of reason and truth. RIP Eleonor. Its fitting she goes out by a man "betraying" her once again. The one she did not think would ever do so.
I think Elenor was an incredible character, in that she was so very complicated and not unlike Flint in a lot of ways. I think she was courageous and strong willed. She rationalized one betrayal after another, much like Flint- but Flint had a more sympathetic root to his rationalizing- Thomas, his love's dream, whereas her's was, at root, more about her and her self fulfillment. And that's what tipped the scale for us in terms of rooting for her. Because the fact is, most of us definitely rooted for her for a time, until we no longer did. I think some of us were willing to forgive her and wanted a redemption arc for her. She did risk her life trying to save Madi. She died recently having realized the importance of commitment/loyalty to someone, as opposed to herself. Maybe those don't constitute as redeeming- but, I find myself crying when watching her die. What a complex character she was.
It was so interesting seeing Flint and Eleanor's dynamic, how despite the time that has passed and all that's happened they still have this understanding with one another because of how similar they were. Ultimately, when Flint lied to her about Rodgers, it was a testament their kinship, that he was trying to let her go with as much peace as she could.
personally, I loved the fact that Eleanor's death had nothing to do with revenge. so many people wanted that death for her, sometimes in horrifically gratuitous ways, and while she certainly made a lot of mistakes in her life (understatement) after many rewatches I firmly believe that Eleanor, like every other character on the show, made the choices that made sense for her in the moment. All the characters have betrayed others - Max betraying Anne, Flint betraying Silver/Jack by making the deal with Eleanor, Vane betraying Teach, Billy betraying Flint/Silver and then vice versa, the list goes on....like damn Flint straight up murdered Mr. Gates to keep his dream for Nassau alive! is it really so different that Eleanor killed Vane for her dream, especially after he killed her father? I know that people have a hard time with her because her motivations can be hard to understand. I think if you watch the show through the lens of she will never betray Nassau/making Nassau work means her mother didn't die for nothing, things become more clear. it's really heartbreaking when you realize Eleanor died the exact same way her mother did, killed by spanish raiders at the (indirect) fault of her husband...a really tragic circle. but it is very frustrating that she seems to be terrible at judging her own/other's feelings lol. sorry I could literally write an essay on Eleanor she's so complicated, I just wanted to give a different perspective I suppose. also I hope this doesn't come off as a criticism against the channel, I've been enjoying your reactions so much - you both are by far the most thoughtful and insightful reactors I've seen on youtube! I'm so excited to see how you react to the final episodes!
Very well thought out! From the story line point of view, Eleanor was probably the single most important character. All information flowed to her and through her and she is how we came to know Nassau, most of the players and the plot line. I think she was both loved and hated (by mostly the same people) throughout. As you say, she was no better or worse than anyone else. This series was so good because everyone had a story, a reason, a thought process for the choices they made, right or wrong. I have seen very few series with the depth and backstories so clearly explained in cleaver dialog.
I'm very critical of them when it comes to Eleanor because I think they miss some obvious things, some of which you mentioned here. It's clear that was clouded by Vane's death but even the moment with Flint at the end here was very telling. Flint had no hatred towards Eleanor, they were somehow confused by that. Flint and Eleanor started this journey when no one else believed in it, of course he would want her to pass away peacefully. He has respect for her because she's very much like him and her decisions made sense every step of the way. So I am a bit disappointed because they missed out on one of the best written characters and moments in the series
@@gemelwalters2942 yeah I think a lot of people forget the kinship Eleanor and Flint had in the beginning, like you said they were the only people who believed in their vision. and I think Eleanor has overall been far less ruthless than Flint when it comes to realizing that vision. people also like to call her flip-floppy, but Flint questioned his own actions and changed his mind just as much - I always think of the moment he's on the maroon island and talks about how he's fighting against the thing he had been trying to achieve not too long ago. I don't blame them for being emotional because of Vane though, I think it's pretty normal to feel this way first watch and this show definitely rewards rewatching. hell, I really didn't like Miranda my first watch and now she's one of my favorite characters. honestly I'm mostly relieved they didn't like, spit on her grave and the comments aren't full of people dancing for joy, as low a bar as that is lol
Well said. It's easy to forget that Eleanor never saw the side of Woodes Rogers that the audience saw. To her Woodes Rogers represents a chance to bring peace to Nassau.
I don't blame Elenor for anything she did, the world she was part of was viscous and nasty, she did what she had to, to survive. Her death i thought was done well, it was unexpected, not every death has to be a spectacle, its much more realistic.
So the Bootleg streaming service I use to watch black sails didn't have episode 6 which led me here and there was no way I was gonna move on without knowing what happened, it's too close to the end lol. Great review all though I would've enjoyed seeing more flash scenes in ur review yall broke the key moments down damn well. I completely agree bro Elenor should've had a grand death like vane did damn what a snake she became, I was not feelin her pasty ass at all after vane died but hey he did kill her Father right. I knew the only thing that would save her was if she got pregnant, I was like damn vane must've been pulling out (pun intended) everytime haha, if he would've got her pregs Killin him wouldn't have worked I guess. I also thought Rakham was gonna take her out to avenge vane but I'm sure that would've villanized him and made him less of a Jokester in a way plus learning that max is gonna seek the help of Elenors grandfather may not work if he knew pirates killed her. Great show dope ass shirt peace out.
I've always loved Flint and Eleanor's relationship. They were both thrown into a world foreign to them and helped each other immensely. Ironically none of the actual pirates ever viewed her as one of them
I liked that Elenore's death was by a random nobody. He needed to be a faceless goon so that we mapped Woods Rogers onto him - since it was essentially his actions that killed her.
Eleanor is one of the most dramatical characters in the series. She tried to build something in Nassau against her father's will, fell in love with a pirate who eventually killed her father (yeah he was a piece of sh*t), fell in love with another man who ended up killing her with a baby inside her. Her death was tragic, really poetic.
I don’t think she was the victim in the vane story. She used their relationship to manipulate him into betraying Blackbeard, deposed him from his crew (he deserved that one for what he did to max) and then manipulated him again to steal the girl and left him for dead in the fort knowing after that act his chance of survival was low. Even after all that he gave her one more chance to walk back through or she would regret it. Yeah killing her father was brutal but it’s not like she had no hand in causing it.
@@johnmartin795 and Vane was a victim? Lol Vane got what was coming to him, as Gates said, "it pays ya, and then it claims ya". The first thing we saw Vane do was kill a man to sway votes on Flints ship, then he went on to have horrible things done to Max. I wasn't in the least surprised or upset by his death. He tried to do something good in his last moment and for that I respect him.
@@gemelwalters2942 I mean I also wouldn’t say vane was a victim. As rackham (or flint I can’t remember lol) said “we’re all villains in Nassau” I’m just saying the comment framed Eleanor to be an innocent victim when in reality the show has the characters suffer consequences for their actions. Vane clearly wasn’t an innocent he literally beheaded a man lmao. Just Eleanor wasn’t an innocent victim either, she did her fair share of betrayals and backstabbings.
@@johnmartin795 she was a victim in that she was manipulated from the start by Scott and her father. Also, there was no betrayal. Who did she betray and please don't say Vane, she was neither in a relationship with Vane nor had any agreement with him. She agreed with Flint to restore legitimacy to Nassau and that's what she's doing now. she was also never a pirate so please don't say you think she betrayed the pirates. In fact Flint is the one who flipped because of what happened to Mrs Barlow. Eleanor is doing exactly what she said she was going to do from the start.
@@gemelwalters2942 she did at the very least knowingly manipulate vane. She betrayed max. She technically betrayed Rogers when she fired at his ship. She betrayed hornigold when she told vane about the secret passages. She had vane killed and started a pirate revolution for a personal vendetta. Chill out I don’t dislike her as a character. In fact I like her because she is very flawed thus making her human, how you gonna act like she is perfect lol.
I was so relived that Flint lied to her I think it speaks more to his character than hers. I believe this was to mess Wood Rogers and prove how much they loved each other. Also he doesn't know she was pregnant so what is going to happen to his mental state. Madi No body I don't believe it!
Love these reactions, i only watched Black Sails during the covid lockdown last year and completely agree with you it's in my top 3 as well. Looking forward to seeing your thoughts on the last 4 EPs 💀
One thing about Flint, he'll lay down his coat to let a woman walk on it lol. As soon as Lord Hamilton degraded Miranda at the dinner table he was on his feet quick fast.
I think they've all but forgotten the bad things Flint has done, they just can't get past anything Eleanor did lol to the point where Flints act in her final moments went over their head completely
I actually think Eleanor's death was absolutely perfect. Because for a character as well hated as she has become by this point, the show still made us root for her in that moment. It also just added another layer of realism to this show that she didn't get this grand death due to someone seeking revenge. Also, I feel like people can just be way too bloodthirsty sometimes. She didn't die in agony? Her knowing she was pregnant, that Maddi died, that wasn't agony? Not to mention slowly bleeding out.
I thought Eleanor's death was done perfectly/was poetic, I don't quite get Steven's gripe with her death and Flint lying. Nonetheless, Great reaction/discussion!
It’s pretty simple… I don’t like her but recognize her as a major character so in that moment wanted something bigger. And I wanted Flint to be honest so she knew the truth. If you keep going, You’ll see I shift my feelings a bit.
@@NikkiStevenReact Yeah that's totally understandable. I certainly wasn't expecting her to die to Spanish Soldier #364 but I liked how they didn't shy away from killing off such an important character in a not-so-grandiose manner. As for the Flint thing, I guess that comes down to how much you liked Eleanor and if you thought Flint 'owed' her anything in the end or not. Anyways, I just finished the finale reaction and I think we can both agree that Black Sails is one of the best (and most underrated) shows of all time 😉
You know, despite the abundance of gray morality in this series, what they painted in pure black is the British Empire. I'm not saying that it was white and fluffy, not at all, but we see only three good people connected directly to the British Empire by the plot - Flint, Thomas and Miranda. All others are cruel, unprincipled, and so on. I understand that this is dictated by the general outline of the narrative, but given the intentional ambiguity of everything else (which was not even in Game of Thrones, and this is super cool!), It just looks strange. And it catches your eye. Even Woodes Rogers looked like Thomas at first and could have been a man who wanted to bring prosperity and peace to the island just under the moisture of the Empire, but ... in the end he turned out to be a sadist. However, this does not prevent me from enjoying the series, it just seems a little strange against the background of everything else.
RIP Eleanor and the Rogers baby. I don't know many people who weren't disappointed with the "how" (myself included) but on my second viewing, I've been fine with it since. Jack already told us earlier this season; would Vane have wanted him to get revenge on her for his death? He talked Teach out of it. Clearly that little piece of dialogue didn't work on y'all lol. For all the shit Max gets (starting with season 3 for obvious reasons), she's more of a badass than she gets credit for. With the lack of leverage she had this episode she still stood tall and didn't back down from anyone or anything. Commanding men, both "elites" and pirates alike. I love to watch her work.
I saw this show first time this year. Wow! Toby as flint is amazing. He is a powerhouse. When i c flint with long coat and the wind blowing his coat and the intense look on his face. He was scary. Best acting.
I encourage you, if you go back and rewatch all the seasons, pay attention to the character arc of Billy. For all the hate he gets in the last season, there is no other single character that is more loyal and steadfast in their commitments than he, and yet gets completely screwed over by the sudden change of plans by others whose own motivations are almost always selfish in nature. He is given tasks, and then follows them, just to have everything flipped on its head because someone else just changed their mind. As I mentioned before, I understand that the writers needed to put him where he ultimately ends up, as this show is a lead up to the book Treasure Island, but they definitely could have used another season to make these transitions much smoother and more organic. Also, this is why it always felt to me that John Silver got 'a little too big for his britches' way too fast. The fear that they show others having for him does not feel deserved in the time in which it happened.
Billy's turn is more subtle but I think it's well done. From his return in season 2, you see he's changed by his capture and torture. He's a harder, darker person and that continues throughout the series. I do wish we'd had some more time with him and the resistance in Nassau tho. Silver is a great example of a good ghost story. The only really scary thing he does is kill Dufrense in season 3 but that story gets told and told and no doubt added to and becomes bigger with each retelling. Add in the Black Spot stuff Billy was doing in Nassau and how everyone was crediting and/or blaming everything that happened on Long John Silver it makes him a big name.
You didn't even understand why Flint lied to her lol Flint has ALWAYS respected Eleanor even now. They both started this series with a vision for Nassau and even though he didn't agree with her choices he didn't hate her. Why do you think he trusted her to keep her word in this deal, he didn't even consult Silver, he just said "trust me". That's because he trusted her, this betrayal that you keep going on about is imaginary. Eleanor acted emotional at times but she's a business woman and her decisions have always mad sense when you know what her goal is and that has always been clear.
You don't need to make basically the same comment seemingly 10 times in one video, especially when it's obvious that at that point you haven't even watched the whole discussion because they do point out that Eleanor was an amazing character and they did perfectly understand her role in the story. Seems like the one not understanding here is you and only you
@@animusswtor4822 watched the entire discussion including their conclusion that Eleanor was "A rollercoaster because you never knew what she was thinking". So no they did not understand her, she's had the same motivation since Season 1. They also discussed wanting Flint to twist the knife in the end, completely misunderstanding Flint and Eleanors relationship. I could go on but I think you get the point. If you have a problem with me pointing that out and have no counter argument then keep moving. If you do then I welcome any meaningful and civil discussion
@Gemel Walters wrong again!!! Elenor’s journey was a roller coaster because of what happened to her on this journey. She held with every emotion in the book, hence the reason it was an up and down journey. She felt the highest of highs and lowest of lows. That’s why I call her journey a roller coaster. And sitting where we are, watching one a week FOR THE FIRST TIME, it’s impossible to know if a character is up to something other than what they’re showing us. This show swerves the viewer a lot and speculation is part of the fun. Remember this is ment to be fun.
I'm not going to lie, this episode made me sad and hurt, a lot. I was part of the Eleanor's "defense squad" and not because she was always right but precisely because she wasn't. She is one of the best written characters in the series and in the history of TV shows. What I love about this show is that there are no good guys or bad guys, they're all in the gray area and let's be honest, that's about as realistic as it gets. Of course Eleanor made mistakes but all of her actions and decisions were always consistent with the character and what she was going through at the time. Eleanor has always been a "strong" woman and to get where she wanted (control Nassau) she did everything, even sacrificing her happiness, and after being kidnapped you can see that she changes abruptly as if she was tired of fighting and starts to do the part that is expected of a "respectable" woman at the time. In 4x01 when we see her kind of sewing, she says some phrases (that now I do not remember perfectly ) that make it clear that she is sewing on the part that we see. It's who she is, what she knows how to do to survive. Everyone has done questionable things on the show, some more, some less. No one exempt. What makes me angry is whenever someone starts a tirade against Eleanor just to insult her I kind of laugh. Okay, she did these bad things, so why not criticize others as well? Why not criticize those who have done worse? (Obviously I'm not talking about you). Remember how it's been established that Eleanor still has PTSD from the Rosario Raid? Of course she will do ANYTHING to keep that from happening again. Eleanor was a pirate, much more like Flint than you think, there's a reason he respects her so much. She was the queen of thieves. The way Eleanor died reflects the way she lived, fighting to the end tooth and nail, by any means possible. Little tidbit, the actress who plays her, the amazing Hannah New, revealed that in the death scene she was so committed that she was really choking but wouldn't stop. Also, I find it interesting how in this episode we see for the first time and maybe the last time Max lose control. By the way, what a lot of people don't understand about this show is that it's the women, all the ones we're introduced to, protagonists or side characters, who pull the strings. At the end of the day this is one of the story lines that weaves through to the end of the show, and I find that magnificent.
We all wanted it but "not like this" is the general response to Eleanore's death But massive props to the actress (Hannah New), she did most of that stunt work herself. Always impresses me because it's so violent it really feels like she's fighting for her life And that Jack/Max scene where they basically scream at each other is so good. Just 2 people taking out months of frustration on each other lol
Eleanor's death pissed me off. Which shocked me cause I hated her ever since she had Vale hanged but it's sort of like part of me wanted her to some day shake up her whole path of waging wars with the pirates and the whole thing with falling for Rogers. It was like someone on PTSD you want to shake it up and become "normal" again. As I was siding with the pirates, I want her to come to "our side". So when she died, I went from hating her to damn I couldn't see her be "saved" so to speak. That being said, that's the ruthlessness and honesty of the show to just go ahead and kill someone important with no warning. Life is without mercy and there shouldn't be plot armors for anybody.
I think thar Eleanor's death is really tragic, as in Greek tragedy. You know, being killed by the decision of her love, and blindness too. So I gotta say that it was a suitable death for her.
I love your reactions to this show! Just a few suggestions for when you are choosing the next show to watch: Aston Mount in Hell on Wheels, HBO'S Spartacus series, the pacific, Star Wars Rebels
Hey guys, I think you are both amazing! Nikki keeps me rolling sometimes till I turn purple..which for me is tough since I'm an African American male! I was diagnosed with cancer in 2019, multiple myeloma so you two help me alot. As soon as I'm in a better spot, you guys DEFINITELY have my support. Just curious if you have looked Into Wrath of Man with John Stathom? Looks interesting, anyway you guys are FANTASTIC and keep doing what you do! It helps some of us more than you know.
This is one of my favourite episodes. There are many other episodes that have great build and better climax moments, but the rollercoaster this one takes you on is something else. One of my favourites to watch people react to, Eleanor going out to a nameless Spanish soldier just like her mother, not saving Madi, Anne and Max reuniting like that, Max leaving her position in Nassau - like Eleanor refused to do right at the start, Max and Jack's argument (love every scene between those two), Silver and Billy talking, Julius showing up just in time, Flint saying he won't leave anyone behind (a small moment showing his growth and his understanding that revolution isn't for revolutions sake, but for the people, all of them), Madi's mother describing everyone showing up, the revolution has begun!
Great episode, great reaction! I know his is gonna be an unpopular opinion - but the more times i rewatch this series, the more dislike Max as a character. As much as i hated Eleanor the first time i watched this show, with every new viewing im reminded just how much Max was guilty of doing very similar acts, everything from betrayals to constant flip-flopping of loyalties. But what really grates on me is her whole arrogant and annoyingly self-righteous attitude while doing it!
I'll defend Max haha. I think there's a difference between arrogance and confidence. Max is very confident and has every right to be considering where she came from and what she's achieved. To be a woman of colour born into slavery who was basically running Nassau at one point is incredible. She's unabashedly intelligent and is a survivor. Her actions have always been to surviving and understandably so but she's taken care of her friends whenever she could e.g. Featherstone and Idelle. Top 5 character for me easily. Also every character has betrayed in this show. We're all villains in Nassau as Jack would say.
Eleanor never Flip flopped...what she's doing in Nassau is what she and Flint had agreed to do. Flint technically flipped, not Eleanor...we know he did because of what happened to Mrs Barlow but he flipped.
@@ljsilver1692 I completely agree with you, she definitely achieved way more than 99% of the entire population in the Bahamas, especially seeing as how she was born a slave and then a prostitute. When i watch reactions to this series like Nikki and Steven's, I'm reminded of how much a hated Eleanor the first time i watched the series, which literally is the same case for every single "Black Sails" reactor on UA-cam. Imo, i think Eleanor is unfairly hated, I mean i could/can certainly understand that you may not like her at all, but i don't think she deserves to be despised, especially be cause Max did similar and equally as treacherous shit, and yet for some reason she's instead of being considered bad or treacherous, she's instead perceived as being brilliant, cunning and tough. I think the hypocrisy about her is was grinds my gears on repeat viewings.
@@gemelwalters2942 True, what i should say is that people perceive her as being devious and flip-flopping. I didn't like her at at the first time i watched this series, but the more i rewatch it - the more Eleanor choices and her actions i are/were completely justified in damn near every case. This is also the case for Woods as well, (maybe not some of his actions), but he's for all intense and purposes merely James McGraw pursuing his agenda of universal pardons to reclaim Nassau. And yet damned near every viewer of this show sees him as the horrific and evil baddy. He does some horrible shit in this show, (unleashing the Spanish on to Nassau for example), but damned near every one of his actions were/are completely justified if you look at his goals, and aren't those of some psychotic oppressor who gets off on brutalizing the people of Nassau simply because he likes inflicting pain - which is pretty much the way most reactors perceive Woods as being.
@@8301TheJMan I totally agree with you on that. Imo Max and Eleanor are on very similar trajectories (apart from their childhood obviously) and Max is almost following in Eleanor's footsteps but is also learning from Eleanor's mistakes. The hatred towards Eleanor I understand from an initial viewing standpoint, people are just more emotional, I definitely was the first time especially after Vane but I've come to appreciate her character and love the tragic arc she goes on. It's tragic but so well written!
So many times y'all praise this show for going in an unexpected direction - then Eleanor dies in an unexpected way and your annoyed Hahaha love you guys and your reactions!! I kind of enjoyed that her death had no epic theatrics or closure about it, just a lost struggle to survive this narrative like so many others.
It's unfortunate that even to this episode you guys didn't understand Eleanors character at all. I know there were other factors at play but I'd say you missed out on one of the best characters in the show while being distracted by bizarre suspicions and imaginary betrayals. Her and Flint are probably the two most compelling characters in the series and more alike than people realize.
so I missed out on one of the best characters in the show by calling her one of the best characters in the show? just because someone has a different opinion about how they feel, doesn't mean there's a lack of understanding. she's clearly your favorite and that's awesome. we have different feeling than you. she hurt characters that we grew closer with and it's all about personal interpretation. I would say that I mentioned a bunch of times how similar her and flint are and I guess my closing comments about how amazing she was as a character and her journey was to watch wasn't enough. I literally called her an amazing character in the recap.
Despite what decisions Eleanor made throughout the series’s I definitely loved and hated her at moments towards the end and as she died I felt pity for her. Like how bilbo baggies, Frodo, and Gandalf from Lott feeling pity for smiguel/gollum
Honestly i blame eleanor if she had stayed in the fort as agreed she would have been fine . It a military situation she was under orders like a quarantine. Rogers is the government. Martial law was in effect. She risked her life and the baby's life.
The book or one of the adaptations? My question has always been, which current Treasure Island would even do justice to kind of help carry on the feel this series did? The original Disney one? The Eddie Izzard one? I’m hopeful that within the next decade the Black Sails cast and crew will join back up for their own take. Potentially using some historical theories about the fate of one of the pirates to actually be Jim’s mom… J+A=Jim lol
Pirate life there and then was a walk on the plank, Eleanor though danced and cartwheeled too wildly on hers, eventually she would sidefall sooner or sooner yet...
Except they never chose it, Eleanors dad abandoned her there as a child among murderers and thieves and she made the most of it. Madi was the daughter of a slave, enough said. Vane and Teach chose the life of piracy so I didn't weep for them but I respected what they tried to accomplish in their final moments.
Full watch-a-long reactions: bit.ly/3k9rYct
Ps love you guys , have to say seeing Nikki and Steven care more about Madi death whilst Eleanor’s is dying on Screen is so authentic that this is my second draft of a response to their and how i felt about it.
Agree with Steven it wasn’t a worthy death but had an element of poetry that civilisation killed Eleanor as opposed to the outlaw pirates.
Can yall react to the new GOT House of Dragons trailer?
I reckon Steven (& it's only a opinion) that yes Eleanor deserved a revengeful killing by the Pirates, but that would of been way too obvious so in a way I'm happy that the random Spanish dude killed her instead, coz it makes a huge statement to woodes Rogers if he listened to Eleanor in the first place, that he wouldn't of lost her he wouldn't of lost his unborn baby as well & knowing that will torment him for the lost of his life, knowing he's the reason of their deaths!!!
To the end you guys misread Eleanor and even Flint. He lied to her because Flint has ALWAYS respected Eleanor. They both started this series with a vision for Nassau when no one else believed in it and even though he didn't agree with her choices he didn't hate her. Why do you think he trusted her to keep her word in this deal, he didn't even consult Silver, he just said "trust me" because he trusted her. She was his partner before Silver came along.
@@gemelwalters2942 There is not much to add. The hatred of Elenor makes the two so blind that they don't even consider that she wanted to save Maddie. Instead, should their deaths become even more brutal and bigger? They tell with Elenor it was a rollercoaster. It wasn't. All the others were Rollercoaster. She has only ever reacted accordingly to the changing decisions of others. Elenor has always acted in the interest of all of Nassau. That means for the majority of the people who live there. Then came Rogers and her baby. Only then did she redefine her priorities. The others always jumped back and forth.
There is a scene in season 1 where Eleanor's father tells Scott she will get herself killed either by "English noose or Spanish sword". The man who spared her the English noose brought down the Spanish sword.
This show is so damn good.
God this show's writing...
Great pull! Gonna rewatch that scene now and just marvel at the writing
I missed that! Love the way you can forever keep finding moments that link like this on repeated viewing!! It's insane!
A Tragedy Period!!
I wrote the same on another reaction to this episode and sorry for the essay - but I really have a lot of things to say about Eleanor's death, because it's really a testament to the beauty of the writing of this show. It sums up her arc and character development so tragically and complexly, yet was still so unexpected. Rodgers definitely knows it's the Spanish that killed her, and that it's his fault because he invited the Spanish there. I think that's part of the tragedy of Eleanor's death for me, that her death is almost entirely the responsibility of her husband who didn't trust her enough - I remember when this aired, we all knew she was going to die eventually, if only from the karma in TV shows, and her being the one responsible for Vane's death, but going out this way was so layered and uniquely tragic for her that I think even those fans who hated her found it somewhat sad.
It's weird because a lot of the characters in this show are selfish, but Eleanor gets way more vitriol towards her because of her decisions - and I get why people don't like her, I was very disappointed in her by season 3, but I could see how she got to the place she did and I understand why she did all the things she did too. In particular, I think a lot about her speech from the episode previous about how she's spent her life trying to prove her worth to all these men - especially her father, but to some extent Vane, and Hornigold, and Teach (and even in a different way, Mr Scott, but obviously this relationship has a lot more at play given Mr Scott's arc, but that's an essay for another comment ahaha) - and in a lot of ways, she tries to speak the same language as all these men, but she ends up their enemy in a way only a woman acting in "man's" role could, in these times. She was in a very unique position of power, and got burned for trying to keep up and grasp at this power in the same way nearly every other male character has also done in the show. So, come season 3, she turns on them all, and puts her trust in one final man, Woodes Rodgers, who she believes finally trusts her back in a way no other man has. And then, instead of her death to answer for the death of Vane, she dies because of Rodgers, who once again like her father and all the others, didn't believe in her ability back, or see her as an equal. Remember, this could have all been avoided, if Rodgers had trusted Eleanor when she told him that she had it handled. The sad poetic nature of her death is that she doesn't die in an independent way - she doesn't die due to an action of her own, or a decision that she made autonomously - she doesn't die because of her mistakes, which I think would have been more satisfying for us as an audience, and for her as a person because the person we knew her as was independent and headstrong, and made her own decisions and was forced to live with the consequences. But instead, she dies because of another man who didn't believe in her ability, but that she put everything into wanting him to believe in her. It's deep, complex, and unbelievably sad.
Eleanor telling her father he left her because she wasn't his son always stuck with me. I think if she was a male character her perception amongst viewers would be completely different. Truly one of the most complex characters in a show full of them. She has so many qualities to be admired and so many flaws that cause frustration. Incredibly written character.
@@ljsilver1692 you're so right. Flint killed Gates and we were all mad but they've convinced themselves that his decision made sense but apparently not Eleanors.
Woods didn't see her as an equal? So why did he choose her to advise him in Nassau over any of the English men that accompanied him and why did he put her in charge when he fell ill? There are numerous situations that suggest your take on that is false. Woods screwed up because of his pride and history with pirates but in his own way he also wanted to prove to her that unlawfulness didn't have to prevail in Nassau and that there was still hope for "civilization" there.
@@gemelwalters2942 Yes, I agree, I believe he truly did see her as a gifted person, and did trust her and her opinion - but the fact is I don't believe he saw her as a true and equal partner. He was the one in charge, and she deferred to him still on plenty of occasions. It was still HIS power that he gifted her on those brief moments, not something that was naturally shared between them - the inherent patriarchal dynamic existed between them, even if behind doors he listened to her counsel. And the fact remains that if he had had utter faith in her, he would have trusted that she had a handle on the situation in Nassau, and he would have done as she told him to. He thought that he knew better than she did, on how best to rectify the situation - whether he or she was right or wrong doesn't really matter, because he thought he could just do as he thought was fit, and Eleanor would fall in line behind him. He was proving a point to her, sure, because he believed he was right and had the power to overrule her, instead of listening to her when it counted. Agree to disagree!
This was incredibly put. It's been a while since I've seen the show and it was refreshing to read a genuine perspective on her character that goes beyond just "she's a bitch" or "dumb and betrayed Vane". You really articulated amazingly why it is possible to still understand and feel for this character despite finding her annoying at times as well.
Another thing that struck me was when Grandma Guthrie told Max that she held onto a fantasy that Eleanor would one day seek her out and follow in her footsteps. I truly believe that Eleanor could've headed into that trajectory. She had at this point developed to be less emotionally brash, have more patience when it came to enacting her plans and had put more value in trust. She was still herself and at her core, I think it would've driven her mad faking propriety in English society despite her dedication to Rodgers (as seen in the ep where she even fails at sewing). At this stage, she would've been at a perfect state to listen to Grandma Guthrie and learn what she could accomplish as a woman in Grandma Guthrie's world. This wasted potential made Eleanor's death all the more tragic coupled with the fact that the majority of the show's audience hates her guts and refuse to see nuance/reason to think otherwise.
Regardless of how characters die in this show, whether it be in glorious defiance like Teach/Vane or abruptly like Miranda/Eleanor, it's always so impactful to the narrative moving forward.
i hated Vane and Miranda's death. Teachs made sense and Eleanor's was long overdue, but Miranda's was too random and Vane was the backbone of the show
@@francissellerdude Miranda's death was a central example of one of this show's core themes and proved Flint was right about England. It was the inciting incidence for the trajectory of Flint's arc for the second half of the show. Vane died as a martyr for the pirates and started the rebellion. I didn't want either of them to die but both their deaths were impactful and important for the story
I love how even when Flint is a prisoner he still has the charisma and authority to command the British soldiers holding him.
The death of Eleanor feels like the completion of a tragic circle for her character. Her life was shaped by one Spanish raid and her death was the result of another. An example of how damaged she was, was her reactions to Vane and Flint’s final words to her. Vane’s truth caused turmoil but Flint’s lie provided comfort. It’s ultimately tragic that she dies just as she’s finally starting to realise her misplaced values and that there’s more to life than just her ambitions.
There’s also poetic symmetry between her and Vane’s deaths. Both acted in retribution against one another and the consequences of those actions eventually lead to their deaths at the hands of the person they loved.
ps not shown but when Madi is trying to start the fire and I the only one that found it funny all she needed was a bit of flint? Clearly the most symbolic moment of the series haha
The fact that her husband would've know how traumatic those raids were for her and still instigated it is even more tragic. Also shows what a piece of shit Rogers is.
And yes, I definitely chuckled when she handed Madi the flint 😆
Lol comments being deleted, elanor was as dirty as a rag
I don't appreciate my comments being deleted sorry
@@bennyhill4228 *spoilers* but that is only one of the possible interpretations of the ending.
I've come to appreciate Eleanor more each time because she is such a humanly flawed character. It makes her much more realistic. I love other characters more but some of them also feel like mythical figures rather than just a flawed person so to speak.
There are some entitled people in this thread that need to chill out and allow N&S to have their raw, live opinions about this show and its characters. This story is too rich, layered and grand to fully comprehend every minuscule detail or connection or theme for every plot line or character. There's just too much happening every episode that is creating sensory overload, especially during your first watch. If you are a person that claims to understand everything about this masterpiece of a story from the start, congrats you must be very smart and I'm happy for you. I'm still learning new things every time I re-watch an episode/reaction and read some insightful comments under each video.
Well said mate. I find it so hypocritical that some people call out other's 'understanding' of the show, especially during a first watch when their own understanding of the story, its characters changed over time after multiple rewatches.
@@jays4402 Agreed. I grew to appreciate Eleanor and Max only on rewatch. The first time around I viewed them as a chore I had to go through. Not sure why because overtime I've grown to love their characters and parallel arcs. These are complex characters that take time to properly understand and appreciate.
Very well put!
@@ranialian8537 Yep I was exactly the same
@@ranialian8537 this is my first watch and I’ve always been on Eleanor side is that weird?
I think Eleanor died in the most perfect way possible for the story. Vane warned her about Woods Rogers saying he wasn't any different from the pirates. Eleanor desperately wanted to believe otherwise, and it got her killed. It's also fantastic character development for Woods Rogers and completes the tragic circle of Eleanor's character. Eleanor's mother was killed when Spain came to Nassau the first time, and she's always feared their return the most. What a fitting way for her to go.
I prefer that Eleanor's death is not an act of revenge by someone close to Vane. Instead it feels like the natural culmination of all the choices -- good and bad -- that brought her to that moment. Her story is a tragedy, as is most of the show. Greek Tragedy disguised as a pirate drama. Eleanor was one of the strongest women on the show but she willingly ceded her power back to the patriarchy (in the form of Woodes Rogers) and it killed her. While a part of me wishes she knew what a POS her husband really was, Flint wouldn't do that to her. I believe he genuinely respected her and wanted to give her what peace he could at the end.
I love what a natural leader Flint is here. The Redcoats don't even question it, they just fall in line and take orders from him.
I remember when she had this dialogue with Flint when Flint was her captive saying:" all these goddamn men making life difficult for me, bringing me into their wars". Yet everything that happened to her occured because she sided with Rogers and her father. What pisses me off is that I wish her and Flint would have gotten closer to one another. I feel like she would have had a different end. Unfortunately, when he left to get the gold, they never met each other again until it was too late and all the pawns were in place for the battles when he offers himself to be imprisoned. I feel like they could have had more dialogue he was in jail and he may have reasoned with her.
Why was Roger's a POS? Lol because he killed Blackbeard, a pirate who himself killed countless others? I wasn't rooting for Roger's but I'm not so naive as to root for the murderers and thieves. At the end of the day I liked their personal stories but Woods did try to broker peace, he offered what Thomas had implemented.
@@gemelwalters2942 He's a POS for many reasons, namely what he does to his own wife in this episode. Spain's return was Eleanor's biggest fear. Her mother died the last time Spain attacked. You can't tell me she hasn't told Rogers about that at some point in their relationship. He knew she feared Spain and he brought then to the island to destroy everything she had helped build because he simply couldn't let it go. Everyone on this show is a liar and a killer (with the exception of Madi). Some do it for reasons I can relate to easier than others.
@@charleyMD17 he didn't intentionally kill Eleanor so I can't call him a POS for that, otherwise what do we call Flint for what he did to Gates with his own hands? Both Woods and Eleanor realized they'd need to abandon Nassau so I don't think Eleanor was thinking about "what she built" at this point, she just agreed to trade it all so her and Woods could have a future. I agree Woods' pride had a hand in what happened, but then so did Jack, Max, Vane, Flint and pretty much everyone else. All I'm saying is on a list of murderers (not accidental) and thieves it's difficult to somehow consider him the POS for trying to restore order in Nassau.
@@gemelwalters2942 It doesn't matter to me if her death was intentional or not, he knew he was making her worst fear come to life. He knew she was on the island he was bringing thousands of Spanish soldiers to with the order to destroy everything in sight. And what about everyone else on the island? The woman in the green dress we saw the soldiers attacking, no doubt raped and murdered? Yeah, that's Rogers' doing. All the innocent people who got caught in the raid? That's Rogers, too. He intentionally brought that to the people he was suppose to protect as their Governor and chose to do it because of his pride. He's a POS.
Trust me, I called Flint some very colorful names when he killed Gates. I still hate that he did that. I guess I don't get on-board for Rogers "restoring order" to Nassau because it's just a polite way to say colonizing. He's pushing Colonial rule onto a foreign land and its people whether they want it or not. It's just more subjugating people who aren't rich white Englishmen.
Steven's talked about how unpredictable this show can be. I remember being so shocked when Eleanor died and yet, when I went back to re-watch the show, there was a scene where Eleanor's father said, "..She will get herself killed, whether by English noose or Spanish sword, it's inevitable." It's crazy how there can be so much foreshadowing, and still feel like there are incredible plot twists. You can never tell where the show is going, and then once things happen it feels so obvious in retrospect.
Oof. She did nearly die from English noose. And the man who saved her from that English noose let loose the spanish sword..."
I never hated Eleanor as a character and I took no delight in her death. She was a very conflicted and complex character, and indicative of just how much better this show was than most of what was on at the time. Her death was sad and tragic (killed by the actions of the man she loved without ever knowing it) and failing to save what was for all intents her sister was the final defeat. For me it's impossible to feel anything but pity for her.
that's a really great way of putting it - I never loved Eleanor like I love some of the other characters, I never hated her like most people seem to, I just felt intense pity for her. her story seems like a tragedy in its truest form, where the events could've been avoided if she had taken different actions, but for the person in the story its the only possible outcome.
Eleanor is the character my feelings changed the most on over the course of the series and even more on rewatches. One first watch I hated her at times but now I see her arc as a big tragedy.
have to appreciate that unlike many other comments you didn't imply it was her own fault for trusting someone in the first place
It's like rediscovering my love of this series by watching your reactions!
This episode is the most I ever felt for Elenor. No matter her feelings for anyone else, she was raised with Madi. They were practically brought up as sisters until the Spanish raid. She must have felt so many conflicting things, from being so glad that Madi was alive and well, to so betrayed that mr Scott kept that from her. Cuz she wasn’t always the ruthless person we know. When she first took over from her dad, mr Scott helped build her into the person she is today, for his own means, regardless of what it did to her. So long as it helped his island community. As much as I dislike her, Eleanor’s state of being isn’t all on her. She is definitely a product of both her upbringing and environment.
@@Mic-Mak she would be an amazing Cersei!
And now I’m curious, who were you glad to see get popped? Was it Stringer? Cuz I’m always satisfied when he gets bodied lol
@@Mic-Mak ah 🧀. Yeah he was a real back stabbing prick.
i loved ponytail flint, especially when he had curled his moustache up! it was such a good look for him, i guess nikki and i have very different tastes!
Rackham is what Stewie Griffin would sound like as an adult lol
RIP Madi. Truly her father's daughter in how she was always the voice of reason and truth.
RIP Eleonor. Its fitting she goes out by a man "betraying" her once again. The one she did not think would ever do so.
What are you talking about? Eleanor was the one quick to betray anyone for her own personal gain.
@@LordHerek lol oh dear, who did she betray?
19th, 20th & 21st Centuries Constabulary, Police.
I think Elenor was an incredible character, in that she was so very complicated and not unlike Flint in a lot of ways. I think she was courageous and strong willed. She rationalized one betrayal after another, much like Flint- but Flint had a more sympathetic root to his rationalizing- Thomas, his love's dream, whereas her's was, at root, more about her and her self fulfillment. And that's what tipped the scale for us in terms of rooting for her. Because the fact is, most of us definitely rooted for her for a time, until we no longer did. I think some of us were willing to forgive her and wanted a redemption arc for her. She did risk her life trying to save Madi. She died recently having realized the importance of commitment/loyalty to someone, as opposed to herself. Maybe those don't constitute as redeeming- but, I find myself crying when watching her die. What a complex character she was.
One of the best ever written
It was so interesting seeing Flint and Eleanor's dynamic, how despite the time that has passed and all that's happened they still have this understanding with one another because of how similar they were. Ultimately, when Flint lied to her about Rodgers, it was a testament their kinship, that he was trying to let her go with as much peace as she could.
personally, I loved the fact that Eleanor's death had nothing to do with revenge. so many people wanted that death for her, sometimes in horrifically gratuitous ways, and while she certainly made a lot of mistakes in her life (understatement) after many rewatches I firmly believe that Eleanor, like every other character on the show, made the choices that made sense for her in the moment. All the characters have betrayed others - Max betraying Anne, Flint betraying Silver/Jack by making the deal with Eleanor, Vane betraying Teach, Billy betraying Flint/Silver and then vice versa, the list goes on....like damn Flint straight up murdered Mr. Gates to keep his dream for Nassau alive! is it really so different that Eleanor killed Vane for her dream, especially after he killed her father? I know that people have a hard time with her because her motivations can be hard to understand. I think if you watch the show through the lens of she will never betray Nassau/making Nassau work means her mother didn't die for nothing, things become more clear. it's really heartbreaking when you realize Eleanor died the exact same way her mother did, killed by spanish raiders at the (indirect) fault of her husband...a really tragic circle. but it is very frustrating that she seems to be terrible at judging her own/other's feelings lol. sorry I could literally write an essay on Eleanor she's so complicated, I just wanted to give a different perspective I suppose. also I hope this doesn't come off as a criticism against the channel, I've been enjoying your reactions so much - you both are by far the most thoughtful and insightful reactors I've seen on youtube! I'm so excited to see how you react to the final episodes!
Very well thought out! From the story line point of view, Eleanor was probably the single most important character. All information flowed to her and through her and she is how we came to know Nassau, most of the players and the plot line. I think she was both loved and hated (by mostly the same people) throughout. As you say, she was no better or worse than anyone else. This series was so good because everyone had a story, a reason, a thought process for the choices they made, right or wrong. I have seen very few series with the depth and backstories so clearly explained in cleaver dialog.
I'm very critical of them when it comes to Eleanor because I think they miss some obvious things, some of which you mentioned here. It's clear that was clouded by Vane's death but even the moment with Flint at the end here was very telling. Flint had no hatred towards Eleanor, they were somehow confused by that. Flint and Eleanor started this journey when no one else believed in it, of course he would want her to pass away peacefully. He has respect for her because she's very much like him and her decisions made sense every step of the way. So I am a bit disappointed because they missed out on one of the best written characters and moments in the series
Yes. Yes. Yes. We could write for days about Eleanor Guthrie. What a perfectly written character.
@@gemelwalters2942 yeah I think a lot of people forget the kinship Eleanor and Flint had in the beginning, like you said they were the only people who believed in their vision. and I think Eleanor has overall been far less ruthless than Flint when it comes to realizing that vision. people also like to call her flip-floppy, but Flint questioned his own actions and changed his mind just as much - I always think of the moment he's on the maroon island and talks about how he's fighting against the thing he had been trying to achieve not too long ago. I don't blame them for being emotional because of Vane though, I think it's pretty normal to feel this way first watch and this show definitely rewards rewatching. hell, I really didn't like Miranda my first watch and now she's one of my favorite characters. honestly I'm mostly relieved they didn't like, spit on her grave and the comments aren't full of people dancing for joy, as low a bar as that is lol
Well said. It's easy to forget that Eleanor never saw the side of Woodes Rogers that the audience saw. To her Woodes Rogers represents a chance to bring peace to Nassau.
I don't blame Elenor for anything she did, the world she was part of was viscous
and nasty, she did what she had to, to survive.
Her death i thought was done well, it was unexpected, not every death has to be a spectacle, its much more realistic.
So the Bootleg streaming service I use to watch black sails didn't have episode 6 which led me here and there was no way I was gonna move on without knowing what happened, it's too close to the end lol. Great review all though I would've enjoyed seeing more flash scenes in ur review yall broke the key moments down damn well. I completely agree bro Elenor should've had a grand death like vane did damn what a snake she became, I was not feelin her pasty ass at all after vane died but hey he did kill her Father right. I knew the only thing that would save her was if she got pregnant, I was like damn vane must've been pulling out (pun intended) everytime haha, if he would've got her pregs Killin him wouldn't have worked I guess. I also thought Rakham was gonna take her out to avenge vane but I'm sure that would've villanized him and made him less of a Jokester in a way plus learning that max is gonna seek the help of Elenors grandfather may not work if he knew pirates killed her. Great show dope ass shirt peace out.
I'm not sure but I think that was Miranda's house where Madi and Eleanor were hiding
It is. It was the last of any reminder of Miranda.
"You were a pirate once." RIP Eleanor
I've always loved Flint and Eleanor's relationship. They were both thrown into a world foreign to them and helped each other immensely. Ironically none of the actual pirates ever viewed her as one of them
@@fly3811 She was the way we learned what everyone was thinking and planning. Eleanor was the hub around which Nassau spun,.
Flint is hot.
I liked that Elenore's death was by a random nobody. He needed to be a faceless goon so that we mapped Woods Rogers onto him - since it was essentially his actions that killed her.
That's an interesting point.
That's the beauty of the show that although you wanted Eleanor to die so bad but finally ended up feeling for her!😪
Eleanor is one of the most dramatical characters in the series. She tried to build something in Nassau against her father's will, fell in love with a pirate who eventually killed her father (yeah he was a piece of sh*t), fell in love with another man who ended up killing her with a baby inside her. Her death was tragic, really poetic.
I don’t think she was the victim in the vane story. She used their relationship to manipulate him into betraying Blackbeard, deposed him from his crew (he deserved that one for what he did to max) and then manipulated him again to steal the girl and left him for dead in the fort knowing after that act his chance of survival was low. Even after all that he gave her one more chance to walk back through or she would regret it. Yeah killing her father was brutal but it’s not like she had no hand in causing it.
@@johnmartin795 and Vane was a victim? Lol Vane got what was coming to him, as Gates said, "it pays ya, and then it claims ya". The first thing we saw Vane do was kill a man to sway votes on Flints ship, then he went on to have horrible things done to Max. I wasn't in the least surprised or upset by his death. He tried to do something good in his last moment and for that I respect him.
@@gemelwalters2942 I mean I also wouldn’t say vane was a victim. As rackham (or flint I can’t remember lol) said “we’re all villains in Nassau” I’m just saying the comment framed Eleanor to be an innocent victim when in reality the show has the characters suffer consequences for their actions. Vane clearly wasn’t an innocent he literally beheaded a man lmao. Just Eleanor wasn’t an innocent victim either, she did her fair share of betrayals and backstabbings.
@@johnmartin795 she was a victim in that she was manipulated from the start by Scott and her father. Also, there was no betrayal. Who did she betray and please don't say Vane, she was neither in a relationship with Vane nor had any agreement with him. She agreed with Flint to restore legitimacy to Nassau and that's what she's doing now. she was also never a pirate so please don't say you think she betrayed the pirates. In fact Flint is the one who flipped because of what happened to Mrs Barlow. Eleanor is doing exactly what she said she was going to do from the start.
@@gemelwalters2942 she did at the very least knowingly manipulate vane. She betrayed max. She technically betrayed Rogers when she fired at his ship. She betrayed hornigold when she told vane about the secret passages. She had vane killed and started a pirate revolution for a personal vendetta. Chill out I don’t dislike her as a character. In fact I like her because she is very flawed thus making her human, how you gonna act like she is perfect lol.
I was so relived that Flint lied to her I think it speaks more to his character than hers. I believe this was to mess Wood Rogers and prove how much they loved each other. Also he doesn't know she was pregnant so what is going to happen to his mental state.
Madi No body I don't believe it!
Goodbye Elenor you shall be missed
Love these reactions, i only watched Black Sails during the covid lockdown last year and completely agree with you it's in my top 3 as well. Looking forward to seeing your thoughts on the last 4 EPs 💀
She did that. He couldn't have landed without her that's why they had to pile everything on her death so you saps would feel bad
Putting aside all the bad things Flint has done and represents, it's interesting to see how gentleman and respectful he is to Eleanor.
One thing about Flint, he'll lay down his coat to let a woman walk on it lol. As soon as Lord Hamilton degraded Miranda at the dinner table he was on his feet quick fast.
I think they've all but forgotten the bad things Flint has done, they just can't get past anything Eleanor did lol to the point where Flints act in her final moments went over their head completely
20th & 21st Centuries Hospitals.
I actually think Eleanor's death was absolutely perfect. Because for a character as well hated as she has become by this point, the show still made us root for her in that moment. It also just added another layer of realism to this show that she didn't get this grand death due to someone seeking revenge.
Also, I feel like people can just be way too bloodthirsty sometimes. She didn't die in agony? Her knowing she was pregnant, that Maddi died, that wasn't agony? Not to mention slowly bleeding out.
I thought Eleanor's death was done perfectly/was poetic, I don't quite get Steven's gripe with her death and Flint lying. Nonetheless, Great reaction/discussion!
It’s pretty simple… I don’t like her but recognize her as a major character so in that moment wanted something bigger. And I wanted Flint to be honest so she knew the truth. If you keep going, You’ll see I shift my feelings a bit.
@@NikkiStevenReact Yeah that's totally understandable. I certainly wasn't expecting her to die to Spanish Soldier #364 but I liked how they didn't shy away from killing off such an important character in a not-so-grandiose manner. As for the Flint thing, I guess that comes down to how much you liked Eleanor and if you thought Flint 'owed' her anything in the end or not.
Anyways, I just finished the finale reaction and I think we can both agree that Black Sails is one of the best (and most underrated) shows of all time 😉
You know, despite the abundance of gray morality in this series, what they painted in pure black is the British Empire. I'm not saying that it was white and fluffy, not at all, but we see only three good people connected directly to the British Empire by the plot - Flint, Thomas and Miranda. All others are cruel, unprincipled, and so on. I understand that this is dictated by the general outline of the narrative, but given the intentional ambiguity of everything else (which was not even in Game of Thrones, and this is super cool!), It just looks strange. And it catches your eye. Even Woodes Rogers looked like Thomas at first and could have been a man who wanted to bring prosperity and peace to the island just under the moisture of the Empire, but ... in the end he turned out to be a sadist. However, this does not prevent me from enjoying the series, it just seems a little strange against the background of everything else.
I hate this episode I was team Eleanor to the very end smh
RIP Eleanor and the Rogers baby. I don't know many people who weren't disappointed with the "how" (myself included) but on my second viewing, I've been fine with it since. Jack already told us earlier this season; would Vane have wanted him to get revenge on her for his death? He talked Teach out of it. Clearly that little piece of dialogue didn't work on y'all lol.
For all the shit Max gets (starting with season 3 for obvious reasons), she's more of a badass than she gets credit for. With the lack of leverage she had this episode she still stood tall and didn't back down from anyone or anything. Commanding men, both "elites" and pirates alike. I love to watch her work.
I saw this show first time this year. Wow! Toby as flint is amazing. He is a powerhouse. When i c flint with long coat and the wind blowing his coat and the intense look on his face. He was scary. Best acting.
Eleanor's journey is not yet at an end. Just like Madi. No death in Black Sails ends at the death. They continue on in the grief of others
I was shocked with the death of Eleanor and Madi. This episode was the saddest one of the series.
Watching this while eating breakfast 🤣
You guys have changed loyalties more than Eleanor has through this show so I wouldn’t talk about a roller coaster 😂
you are guys are the best
Don't worry the death will have weight. Things will continue to play out.
I encourage you, if you go back and rewatch all the seasons, pay attention to the character arc of Billy. For all the hate he gets in the last season, there is no other single character that is more loyal and steadfast in their commitments than he, and yet gets completely screwed over by the sudden change of plans by others whose own motivations are almost always selfish in nature. He is given tasks, and then follows them, just to have everything flipped on its head because someone else just changed their mind. As I mentioned before, I understand that the writers needed to put him where he ultimately ends up, as this show is a lead up to the book Treasure Island, but they definitely could have used another season to make these transitions much smoother and more organic. Also, this is why it always felt to me that John Silver got 'a little too big for his britches' way too fast. The fear that they show others having for him does not feel deserved in the time in which it happened.
I actually think billy's transition is very organic and his turning point came at the perfect moment. I hate him because he killed a child.
@@fly3811 Yeh that was so f'd up what Billy and his men did
Billy's turn is more subtle but I think it's well done. From his return in season 2, you see he's changed by his capture and torture. He's a harder, darker person and that continues throughout the series. I do wish we'd had some more time with him and the resistance in Nassau tho. Silver is a great example of a good ghost story. The only really scary thing he does is kill Dufrense in season 3 but that story gets told and told and no doubt added to and becomes bigger with each retelling. Add in the Black Spot stuff Billy was doing in Nassau and how everyone was crediting and/or blaming everything that happened on Long John Silver it makes him a big name.
You didn't even understand why Flint lied to her lol Flint has ALWAYS respected Eleanor even now. They both started this series with a vision for Nassau and even though he didn't agree with her choices he didn't hate her. Why do you think he trusted her to keep her word in this deal, he didn't even consult Silver, he just said "trust me". That's because he trusted her, this betrayal that you keep going on about is imaginary. Eleanor acted emotional at times but she's a business woman and her decisions have always mad sense when you know what her goal is and that has always been clear.
I mean...it took up until this episode for them to acknowledge that Eleanor and Rogers did indeed love each other lmao.
@@eskayh7734 lol true.
You don't need to make basically the same comment seemingly 10 times in one video, especially when it's obvious that at that point you haven't even watched the whole discussion because they do point out that Eleanor was an amazing character and they did perfectly understand her role in the story. Seems like the one not understanding here is you and only you
@@animusswtor4822 watched the entire discussion including their conclusion that Eleanor was "A rollercoaster because you never knew what she was thinking". So no they did not understand her, she's had the same motivation since Season 1. They also discussed wanting Flint to twist the knife in the end, completely misunderstanding Flint and Eleanors relationship. I could go on but I think you get the point. If you have a problem with me pointing that out and have no counter argument then keep moving. If you do then I welcome any meaningful and civil discussion
@Gemel Walters wrong again!!! Elenor’s journey was a roller coaster because of what happened to her on this journey. She held with every emotion in the book, hence the reason it was an up and down journey. She felt the highest of highs and lowest of lows. That’s why I call her journey a roller coaster. And sitting where we are, watching one a week FOR THE FIRST TIME, it’s impossible to know if a character is up to something other than what they’re showing us. This show swerves the viewer a lot and speculation is part of the fun. Remember this is ment to be fun.
I'm not going to lie, this episode made me sad and hurt, a lot. I was part of the Eleanor's "defense squad" and not because she was always right but precisely because she wasn't. She is one of the best written characters in the series and in the history of TV shows. What I love about this show is that there are no good guys or bad guys, they're all in the gray area and let's be honest, that's about as realistic as it gets. Of course Eleanor made mistakes but all of her actions and decisions were always consistent with the character and what she was going through at the time. Eleanor has always been a "strong" woman and to get where she wanted (control Nassau) she did everything, even sacrificing her happiness, and after being kidnapped you can see that she changes abruptly as if she was tired of fighting and starts to do the part that is expected of a "respectable" woman at the time. In 4x01 when we see her kind of sewing, she says some phrases (that now I do not remember perfectly ) that make it clear that she is sewing on the part that we see. It's who she is, what she knows how to do to survive. Everyone has done questionable things on the show, some more, some less. No one exempt. What makes me angry is whenever someone starts a tirade against Eleanor just to insult her I kind of laugh. Okay, she did these bad things, so why not criticize others as well? Why not criticize those who have done worse? (Obviously I'm not talking about you). Remember how it's been established that Eleanor still has PTSD from the Rosario Raid? Of course she will do ANYTHING to keep that from happening again. Eleanor was a pirate, much more like Flint than you think, there's a reason he respects her so much. She was the queen of thieves. The way Eleanor died reflects the way she lived, fighting to the end tooth and nail, by any means possible. Little tidbit, the actress who plays her, the amazing Hannah New, revealed that in the death scene she was so committed that she was really choking but wouldn't stop. Also, I find it interesting how in this episode we see for the first time and maybe the last time Max lose control. By the way, what a lot of people don't understand about this show is that it's the women, all the ones we're introduced to, protagonists or side characters, who pull the strings. At the end of the day this is one of the story lines that weaves through to the end of the show, and I find that magnificent.
We all wanted it but "not like this" is the general response to Eleanore's death
But massive props to the actress (Hannah New), she did most of that stunt work herself. Always impresses me because it's so violent it really feels like she's fighting for her life
And that Jack/Max scene where they basically scream at each other is so good. Just 2 people taking out months of frustration on each other lol
Billy was betrayed at every turn.
Eleanor's death pissed me off. Which shocked me cause I hated her ever since she had Vale hanged but it's sort of like part of me wanted her to some day shake up her whole path of waging wars with the pirates and the whole thing with falling for Rogers. It was like someone on PTSD you want to shake it up and become "normal" again. As I was siding with the pirates, I want her to come to "our side". So when she died, I went from hating her to damn I couldn't see her be "saved" so to speak. That being said, that's the ruthlessness and honesty of the show to just go ahead and kill someone important with no warning. Life is without mercy and there shouldn't be plot armors for anybody.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend
I think thar Eleanor's death is really tragic, as in Greek tragedy. You know, being killed by the decision of her love, and blindness too. So I gotta say that it was a suitable death for her.
I can't wait till the next episode. I need y'all to know!!!!
I love your reactions to this show! Just a few suggestions for when you are choosing the next show to watch: Aston Mount in Hell on Wheels, HBO'S Spartacus series, the pacific, Star Wars Rebels
Hey guys, I think you are both amazing! Nikki keeps me rolling sometimes till I turn purple..which for me is tough since I'm an African American male! I was diagnosed with cancer in 2019, multiple myeloma so you two help me alot. As soon as I'm in a better spot, you guys DEFINITELY have my support. Just curious if you have looked Into Wrath of Man with John Stathom? Looks interesting, anyway you guys are FANTASTIC and keep doing what you do! It helps some of us more than you know.
I love nikki
I know Max is smart and clever and she's been through hell but I really can't bring myself to like her.
Y’all need to watch the show The Last Kingdom it’s an amazing show
Where's midnight mass?
This is one of my favourite episodes. There are many other episodes that have great build and better climax moments, but the rollercoaster this one takes you on is something else. One of my favourites to watch people react to, Eleanor going out to a nameless Spanish soldier just like her mother, not saving Madi, Anne and Max reuniting like that, Max leaving her position in Nassau - like Eleanor refused to do right at the start, Max and Jack's argument (love every scene between those two), Silver and Billy talking, Julius showing up just in time, Flint saying he won't leave anyone behind (a small moment showing his growth and his understanding that revolution isn't for revolutions sake, but for the people, all of them), Madi's mother describing everyone showing up, the revolution has begun!
Great episode, great reaction! I know his is gonna be an unpopular opinion - but the more times i rewatch this series, the more dislike Max as a character. As much as i hated Eleanor the first time i watched this show, with every new viewing im reminded just how much Max was guilty of doing very similar acts, everything from betrayals to constant flip-flopping of loyalties. But what really grates on me is her whole arrogant and annoyingly self-righteous attitude while doing it!
I'll defend Max haha. I think there's a difference between arrogance and confidence. Max is very confident and has every right to be considering where she came from and what she's achieved. To be a woman of colour born into slavery who was basically running Nassau at one point is incredible. She's unabashedly intelligent and is a survivor. Her actions have always been to surviving and understandably so but she's taken care of her friends whenever she could e.g. Featherstone and Idelle. Top 5 character for me easily.
Also every character has betrayed in this show. We're all villains in Nassau as Jack would say.
Eleanor never Flip flopped...what she's doing in Nassau is what she and Flint had agreed to do. Flint technically flipped, not Eleanor...we know he did because of what happened to Mrs Barlow but he flipped.
@@ljsilver1692 I completely agree with you, she definitely achieved way more than 99% of the entire population in the Bahamas, especially seeing as how she was born a slave and then a prostitute. When i watch reactions to this series like Nikki and Steven's, I'm reminded of how much a hated Eleanor the first time i watched the series, which literally is the same case for every single "Black Sails" reactor on UA-cam. Imo, i think Eleanor is unfairly hated, I mean i could/can certainly understand that you may not like her at all, but i don't think she deserves to be despised, especially be cause Max did similar and equally as treacherous shit, and yet for some reason she's instead of being considered bad or treacherous, she's instead perceived as being brilliant, cunning and tough. I think the hypocrisy about her is was grinds my gears on repeat viewings.
@@gemelwalters2942 True, what i should say is that people perceive her as being devious and flip-flopping. I didn't like her at at the first time i watched this series, but the more i rewatch it - the more Eleanor choices and her actions i are/were completely justified in damn near every case. This is also the case for Woods as well, (maybe not some of his actions), but he's for all intense and purposes merely James McGraw pursuing his agenda of universal pardons to reclaim Nassau. And yet damned near every viewer of this show sees him as the horrific and evil baddy. He does some horrible shit in this show, (unleashing the Spanish on to Nassau for example), but damned near every one of his actions were/are completely justified if you look at his goals, and aren't those of some psychotic oppressor who gets off on brutalizing the people of Nassau simply because he likes inflicting pain - which is pretty much the way most reactors perceive Woods as being.
@@8301TheJMan I totally agree with you on that. Imo Max and Eleanor are on very similar trajectories (apart from their childhood obviously) and Max is almost following in Eleanor's footsteps but is also learning from Eleanor's mistakes. The hatred towards Eleanor I understand from an initial viewing standpoint, people are just more emotional, I definitely was the first time especially after Vane but I've come to appreciate her character and love the tragic arc she goes on. It's tragic but so well written!
Great Seth Rollins reference that turned out to be a macabre bit of foreshadowing!
So many times y'all praise this show for going in an unexpected direction - then Eleanor dies in an unexpected way and your annoyed Hahaha love you guys and your reactions!! I kind of enjoyed that her death had no epic theatrics or closure about it, just a lost struggle to survive this narrative like so many others.
It's unfortunate that even to this episode you guys didn't understand Eleanors character at all. I know there were other factors at play but I'd say you missed out on one of the best characters in the show while being distracted by bizarre suspicions and imaginary betrayals. Her and Flint are probably the two most compelling characters in the series and more alike than people realize.
so I missed out on one of the best characters in the show by calling her one of the best characters in the show? just because someone has a different opinion about how they feel, doesn't mean there's a lack of understanding. she's clearly your favorite and that's awesome. we have different feeling than you. she hurt characters that we grew closer with and it's all about personal interpretation. I would say that I mentioned a bunch of times how similar her and flint are and I guess my closing comments about how amazing she was as a character and her journey was to watch wasn't enough. I literally called her an amazing character in the recap.
Madi was my favourite
Mine too. I was so mad when she died.
Despite what decisions Eleanor made throughout the series’s I definitely loved and hated her at moments towards the end and as she died I felt pity for her. Like how bilbo baggies, Frodo, and Gandalf from Lott feeling pity for smiguel/gollum
Before i watched you reaction video i had to read through the comments first
Woodes Rogers uh...isn't going to like this.
🎶Ding Dong the witch is dead!🎶 she killed Vane…the end
love how first the british soldiers were hella confused ... but in the end they were taking orders from fling during that little battle
Honestly i blame eleanor if she had stayed in the fort as agreed she would have been fine . It a military situation she was under orders like a quarantine. Rogers is the government. Martial law was in effect. She risked her life and the baby's life.
I would love to see you guys to a reaction for Treasure Island once you've wrapped on the Black Sails reacts!
The book or one of the adaptations? My question has always been, which current Treasure Island would even do justice to kind of help carry on the feel this series did? The original Disney one? The Eddie Izzard one? I’m hopeful that within the next decade the Black Sails cast and crew will join back up for their own take. Potentially using some historical theories about the fate of one of the pirates to actually be Jim’s mom… J+A=Jim lol
@@AH-yn6ip Honestly, I'd say the Muppet Treasure Island one because it's fun as hell!
@@AH-yn6ip the Christian Bale version would fit the most toneally with this show
you will see the best history ever. i cant wait
Pirate life there and then was a walk on the plank, Eleanor though danced and cartwheeled too wildly on hers, eventually she would sidefall sooner or sooner yet...
Please start watching Invincible.
You guys should watch Yellowstone.
Yellowstone is great! Which reminds me, season 4 airs in 3 hours 🤩
I didn't weep for Eleanor or Madi, or anybody else really. They lived dangerous lives, what else would you expect?
Except they never chose it, Eleanors dad abandoned her there as a child among murderers and thieves and she made the most of it. Madi was the daughter of a slave, enough said. Vane and Teach chose the life of piracy so I didn't weep for them but I respected what they tried to accomplish in their final moments.
@@gemelwalters2942 ...Everbody makes choices, and they did too.
It would be super funny if you could make a reaction to the IT movies, part I and part II. Nothing better than a good movie with clowns ;)))))))
Dragons
Hello, please see "dexter" for at least 1 season)))))))))))))