Actually it could be true. I mean, this is an idea based on pure speculation, but what if magic played a role here? What if his face changed according to the circumstances? What if his face was perceived differently by each person?
I have always loved the idea That Doom's scars are minimal yet he hides under his mask because of his inmense vanity, it just tells a lot about the character.
@@Jean-Paul-Lane-Valley if you ask me the best way to humiliate Vega is to beat him, destroy his mask, rip up his face with his claws, castrate him, destroy his privates, and then call EMS to make sure that he survives his wounds.
Is DOCTOR DOOM Hot? NIGHTWING Best Superhero Butt? Human Torch in the corner: "They ask you how you are? and you just have to say that you're fine, when you're not really fine."
I love that the perfectionism/body dismorphia idea in a super villain. It makes sense because so many of them are narcissists. It's such a cool idea worth exploring.
This reminds me of the Mean Seasons episode of the 90's Batman cartoon, and the Villain Calendar Girl. She wore a mask because she was convinced she was hideous, because of Body Dysmorphia developed from working as a model and actress and starting to fall out of favor.
@Instrumentality1000 Yes, they mentioned a few times that his scars are too severe for plastic surgery. Why that would be a problem to a guy that builds devices that break the rules of physics on a daily basis is another question.
I found the end of that episode pretty sad with Batgirl saying "She's beautiful" and Batman going "She can't see that anymore. All she sees are the flaws."
Very interesting concept. I've always thought of Dr. Doom being horribly disfigured and the nerves of his face permanently damaged from the explosion.The idea that Dr. Doom being an extreme perfectionist is pretty interesting and fits so well. There's a part of me thinking about those extreme reactions of other characters are more like, "Oh ho! He's too hot!" Although, it would be pretty funny if all he had was a scar on his face, and it was revealed to a character like it was a big moment, and the other character would have no reaction, or more of a 'Okay, i see your face...what about it?"
You know what's weird? Doom has the full capabilities to fix whatever scarring he has no issue, between his mastery of magic, his understanding of all fields of science and the resources of an entire country, there is nothing that stops him from fixing it. My thinking is Doom has such high levels of Pride that the idea that any part of him needs to be "fixed" would wound him immensely, so he would never accept it, unless he reached an ultimate victory in which Doom felt that he was above perfection.
I always though he had a slight scar after the accident but if you take a red hot mask and put it straight on your face you are going to get burns and then massive scars.
But it's Doom though. His magic power is retardedly high. Can you see doctor strange touching hot metal and not burning himself due to his magic? He sure can. And if he can do something so mundane, so can Doom.
Doom has been known to have uber-healing powers through magic and I think at one time he stole or borrowed Wolverine's healing ability. I do remember something about Doom stealing Wolverine's adamantium skeleton. Doom's armor itself is mystical and is supposed to have numerous powers.
@@ranwolf7650 Yet in both versions of this in the comic panels it never shows you enough to make the claim he did or didn't. One version just have him to continue to talk normally. The other has him reacting in a very Doomy way, then shoving his face on snow, but then the monks who made the mask and see his face talk about it with vague language that can be read as both surprise his face is not further damage after the mask or if it is harmed and they're worried. In both _we_ don't actually get to see his face after the mask, and it is intentionally left without confirmation. All we know from both is that it was hot one the one hand, and on the other it is Doom we are dealing with.
That Kirby sketch is part of what made me fall in love with the character. I love the idea that his scaring is far less big of a deal than he thinks it. He is just that vain. That is my headcanon on the character. (Edit: The news to me is how not-alone I am in this sentiment.)
I know people that adamantly believe Doom should look harsher Eastern European facial features, and not strictly handsome, which is a weird hill to die on, but okay. (Hey, I remember Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes, it's my favorite incarnation of the team, glad it's on Disney+for most people to see.)
I'm one of the biggest Doctor Doom collectors in the country. With that being said; I feel that John Byrne's take on Doom's face, in "Fantastic Four"#278, was brilliantly handled. For years, Stan Lee insisted that Doom's face was completely destroyed, due to the lab accident. At the same time, Jack Kirby held to the notion that Doom only suffered a scar from same said accident. What John Byrne did was take both creators' take on the character, combining both ideas. Thus, combining both the scar, and total disfigurement, finally giving the definitive answer to Doom's ruined face. With this, #278 is a brilliant KEY issue, ending the confusion once and for all. As to whether or not Doom is hot, It's really not my place to answer since I'm attracted to women, and not men.. ;) In any event, a most enjoyable subject. Thanks for yet another fine post.
But clearly it didn't end the confusion...or this video wouldn't have been made. And Byrne's story makes Doom look like a complete moron. (Is he unaware that metal conducts heat?) And I don't think Doom is supposed to be stupid.
In the comics after his accident after trying to contact and save his mom from hell using magic his face was scared. Then he burned off his face because he refused to let his metal mask cool after it was made. Then his face was healed when he got the powers of the beyonder.
Took the powers of the beyonder. That's one of Doom's best tropes, his knack for usurping stupendous cosmic powers. It was far more interesting to read Dr Doom as the pinnacle villain in the Secret Wars, rather than the Beyonder
First, thanks for the info on Doom being designed to resemble the Grim Reaper/Death. I never heard that before. Kirby's minimizing Doom's scar in the sketch (I think there's a video of him drawing it!) is simply Kirby reevaluating the character after years of growth. Doom had become a deeper character in the years between his creation and the time of the sketch, and Kirby's thoughts on Doom's personality had no doubt changed during that time as well. Kirby is one of Byrne's heroes, so he wouldn't thoughtlessly undo something Kirby had done, though he might revise/tweak it a bit to fit then-current continuity and perceptions. Old Marvel comics: "Doom's face is heavily scarred." Reconsidered perceptions about the character: "Doom only thinks he's heavily scarred." Can there be a middle ground somehow? Yes, and Byrne threaded that needle. (Though he did put the scar on the other side of Victor's face. Oops.)
I think dismorphia doom is more interesting, and always thought of him as being a very handsome man that can't see his handsomeness. He sees himself as above everyone else, but doesn't see himself as above himself. He's ambitious, but knows his limits well enough to break them where needed (or when it comes to dunking on the Fantastic Four). Tho, I only really know Doom from the cartoons and movies. So... yea
Sasha! Fun post! Dr. Doom, it developed was trying to find a way to traverse the living and dead boundary to try and save his dead mother. The pictures in FF#5 of the super-hot mask being applied to his damaged face would leave more than a scratch under his eye IMHO!!
The story I knew was that he too quickly put on the mask and burned himself exacerbating his injury. This video shows the complexity of the issue. Interesting video Sasha.
What if his dysmorphia is so bad that every time he takes off his mask and someone's like, 'that scar looks like it hurt' or whatever, he perceives it as them freaking the hell out because he can't imagine them reacting otherwise?
New fan theory I just thought of: Dr. Doom is based off the Phantom of the Opera! Sue Storm is the opera singer he pines for, and depending on who's telling the story he can either be fully disfigured like the Lon Chaney portrayal, handsome but scarred like the Gerard Butler portrayal, or not disfigured at all like the Julian Sands portrayal :)
Another great video, Casually - I as a kid, I collected the end of the Byrne run (and early bits of it from the quarter bins), his work on Doom was among the best of his career
I was watching this with my wife and when we got to the part about it just being a little scar, she was like, "he invents all this stuff, why not just invent something to remove the scar. Or, like, wear concealer. He is having a huge mask right now, just a little bit of makeup would fix it." I told her that is why women don't write good comics. They just have too much common sense. (it was a joke, she laughed, don't freak out)
The horrified reaction to Doom’s as yet unrevealed face early on, given the lesser severity it held when actually revealed, could they have been reacting in such a way to the fact that it wasn’t that bad? Like, “No! We thought he’d look more horrific, but he’s actually handsome! No one must see this! Especially Susan!”.
I’ve always gone with the idea that the explosion he caused in college gave him only the tiniest scar imaginable on his face, just enough to be noticeable. But his ego was so huge that he rushed to put on his mask before it cooled from the forge, welding it to his face.
It's always been my thought that while he's always been scarred since putting the mask on, he had it restored twice. Once during the original Secret Wars and then again after the most recent when Reed and Molecule Man restored it. Most of the times I think he uses magic to disguise himself. I'm not sure what he looks like now after the Infamous Iron Man run.
It was established the Doom has extremely strong willpower. (He resisted Purple Man's powers.) It would be interesting if it were found out that in addition to having dysmorphia, he is also slightly telepathic. If the person is weak-willed or unsuspecting they see Doom the way he pictures himself, severely disfigured, but if they are strong-willed or can concentrate, they see him as barely scarred. The stronger their willpower, the less disfigured he appears, while the stronger his willpower, the more disfigured he appears to himself.
When characters see Doom’s face, what if the over-the-top reactions aren’t their actual reactions, but instead Doom projecting his expectations of how people would react?
As for Kirby's intentions, couldn't the Marvel method have led to a disconnect between the art and the dialogue? Maybe the intention of the art was the witnesses being shocked and surprised at who he was, the otherwise handsome heir of the Latveria who had gone missing or otherwise secluded himself from the public for years. Then this got changed in dialogue to what we know today?
Thanks for the clarification on your scar. I must admit that while I find your commentary intelligent and insightful, I sometimes found myself focusing on your eyebrow wondering if it was a scar or had some secret meaning. I also loved the Heinlein reference in a recent video. I wasn't sure anyone read R.A.H. any more. Keep up the good work.
In "If This be Doomsday" (Fantastic Four #236) Sue SEES Doom's face up-close and personal. We the reader can't see what she sees, but she's clearly revolted by the sight of it and says something like "I knew his face had been disfigured, but I never suspected that it would be THAT horrible.." Not quoting -word-for-word, mind you... it's been over thirty years
By the way, you should explore the new Dr Doom series. It adds a bit of explanation to Kang and Doom's relationship, plus the amount of sass you get from both is gold. I'd love to see your take on the run.
It doesn't make any sense that Doom would have been so anxious to put the mask on, not even waiting for it to cool. Being a scientist and at least somewhat familiar with metallurgy, that putting searing hot metal on human flesh is probably not a good idea. One would think, but one would be wrong, wouldn't one.
I have always liked the idea that doom is one of the most attractive people ever born but has a nick on his face from the accident. Doom is person that suffers no slight and anything that irks him must be destroyed. The nick on his face is a slight, and a symbol of the slight Reed Richards gave him the day of the accident.
I had always subscribed to the notion that Doom was burned horribly when he put on the mask, but I absolutely love the idea that it's a minor blemish and his conceit amplifies it in his own mind. That's so Doom.
Never cover that scar! It’s cute af. Also I dig curbys idea of his perfectionist personality and body dismorphia causing Dooms insecurity. Great episode. Gracias.
I remember a friend telling me about one of his favorite stories of all time: It was probably a one-shot revolving around an insurance representative showing up to Doom's estate. The mission was to deliver the paycheck for damages incurred to Latverian / Doom holdings, possibly from heroes. After finally getting past the many security obstacles to the front door, he had to inform Doom that the check could only be released with verification with photo id. I do not remember if there were precious representatives that did not reach the front door.
Consider talking about Sabretooth from Marvel. Everybody loves him as a villain now but forgets how Cage used to use him as a punching bag and how his most humiliating defeat was at the hands of Black Cat!
Just listening to this I had a question. Is there any case in comics where a person's face is terribly disfigured, they make a mask to hide it, but they do it so they can keep making kids happy?
You mention the idea of fan-fic being a legitimate art form of it’s own. I agree. One of the best examples I have ever come across was inspired by Marion Zimmer Bradley. She is best known for writing ‘The Mists of Avalon’ but she also wrote the Darkover Series-a sci-fi series about a planet that was colonized by humans and what happens over thousands of years. Bradley was highly engaged with her fans and was impressed by their takes on her world. A group called the Friends of Darkover would publish newsletters and ‘fanzines’ about Bradley and the world she had created. She often took the time to edit her fans fanfics and helped get these works published. She even published anthologies of fanfic works. Some of my favorite stories about Darkover were those fanfics. This went on for over a decade. It wasn’t until a few incidents occurred-one where a fan published a fanfic in a magazine without the Bradley’s permission and when the author of a fanfic threatened to sue Bradley over an idea-that Bradley stopped her involvement with her fans. This was really sad because she had helped several inspiring writer to get their start in the field. It was great while it lasted and it showed just how good fanfic could be.
honestly I love the idea of its jsut a tiny scar but he has blown it out of proportion in his mind also what are the good Ric Grayson fix it fics out there? cause damm that needed fixing and I trust you on the recs on thatXD also damm that X files photo, the x files publicity photos will never cease to amaze meXD
It is funny how doom is a good guy when his face is fixed and a super villain when he is disconfigurated. It is like a flip switch. Anyway in the end of infamous ironman he was disconfigurated again and turned back into a super villain and was not a small scar his entire face was burned by a demon and that is how he looks today.
Greetings Sasha! I’m an older reader who’s been appreciating your channel as one of four I’ve found worth their salt (pun unintentional). The others are; Comics Tropes, Strange Brain Parts, and Beyond The Trailer (comic movies). Love the anecdotes regarding things old, new and especially obscure. Regarding Von Doom I think there’s one other middle ground between Kirby and Byrne. Some things can and should be left to the reader’s imagination. Another great Doom unmasked story takes place in the sequel to Marvel’s Earth X series Universe X. In it he confesses/apologizes to Sue Richards all his sins against Reed & the FF. And now, here’s a subject I’d love for you to tackle: What’s the best “kill the universe story”? Including that time Capt. America did in What If? against Korvac. Makes Thanos look like a crossing guard on lunch break. Check ‘em out.
Probably, every time a character is shocked by seeing Doom's face is just because his face is beyond our beauty criteria; the most handsome man in history has severe dysmorphia, the true tragedy.
There is a story in comics where Doom goes to Hell in order to save his mother's soul. In that story, the explosion that "disfigures" his face was caused by Doom trying to get to Hell and failing. In that story, Doom hides his face because he can't stand to look himself in the mirror, do to that failure. I want to see that story in a movie so bad.
Wasn't expecting the fanfic lesson! Look up how James Barrie once wrote one for his friend Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, where Sherlock Holmes met Peter Pan...
What, seriously? Now I'm on a train of thought about Anais Niin writing the erotica for her editor that somehow always "vanished", Robert E. Howard and Lovecraft being pen pals, the stuff done later with Verne.... Cool, thank you, that will be worth looking up!
I remember a sequence from the first Z=Secret Wars back in 84 when, after acquiring the Beyonder's powers the first thing Doom did was repair his face, when is shown and it only has a small scar on on side, yet he wastes no time in fixing it...which, among other things, shows why Doom wasn't ready for that kind of power since the fist thing he did with is was an act born of vanity and selfishness.
He also kills all of the heroes, but his minion (Klaw?) keeps taunting him that he can't control all of the power he has, and that maybe unconsciously he might use a fraction of his power to save the heroes. He describes to Doom in detail how it could happen, and Doom accidentally makes it happen. It's like it someone says "Don't think about elephants." then all you can think about is elephants. Klaw (?) puts the idea in Doom's head and he can't help himself but making it happen.
I read both the Kirby run and the Byrne run in real time because I was born 10,000 years ago. All this other stuff-- the Secret Wars stuff, and the Hickman run, etc.-- about all that, I'm not so sure, chronologically speaking. My memory is terribly bad, but here goes anyway. In the 1960s' FF Annual #2, we were given to understand that Doom's face was horribly disfigured when he tried to contact the nether world and his contraption blew up. Later, when he put on his newly forged mask for the first time, he showed no pain. Presumably, it caused no additional scarring. That revision happened only in the later retcon by Byrne (IIRC). So, that was how the story went for about 20 years, until Byrne wrote his retcon in the 1980s. All the other artists and writers 'til then followed the story as established in FF Annual #2. Byrne's 1980s revision was apocryphal and non-canonical at the time it was published. Which is fine, because that's how Marvel comics always work. What I'm even less sure about is the timing of the Kirby sketch, where Doom removes his mask to reveal the tiny scar. I think I probably saw that sketch in a Comics Journal Kirby interview, some time after the Byrne retcon had already been published. I also seem to recall that the sketch was drawn by Kirby for a fan, so, since it wasn't published by Marvel, it was even more non-canonical than the retcon. And, I think the claim by Kirby at the time of this reveal was that he had drawn it BEFORE the Byrne retcon-- again, I could be completely wrong about this-- but my impression at the time was that Kirby's memory was even worse than my own, and this came during the time when he was claiming to have invented everything first. And, maybe he did, but I just don't really know. It seemed like he was trying to jump Byrne's claim to this later idea, which was very popular at the time. I love Kirby and I could be wrong. I love Byrne too. Circumspectively, and with regards to the FF, maybe even more. The Byrne retcon came shortly before the Jim Shooter initiated Secret Wars mini-series in the 1980s, which changed everything, and which Byrne truly hated (as did I), because it totally disrupted Byrne's carefully planned and constructed Doom storyline in the FF (along with all other Marvel storylines). Byrne left Marvel shortly thereafter. But before he left, he had written a story which completely destroyed Doom's original body, along with the scar. I can't remember exactly by what deus ex machina later restored Doom's body, but I think it might have been the Walter Simonson story in FF #350. For a long time though, the canon was that Doom was dead, his body destroyed, and he had been replaced by a young boy named Kristoff who had been programmed to believe he was Doom. All versions of Doom's hot body that we've seen thereafter were his magically/scientifically created replacement body, & so, therefore, were any scars thereon. Sorry that my comments tend to be so long. I get carried away.
I just finished writing an epic piece called Doctor Doom - metal/psychedelic/drone song done right, finally. If I had a camera like you rich kids I'd be dangerous. Good timing and excellent essay. I'm not making this up - I originally wrote this song for Kevin Smith who lives a half-mile from where I type. He is not interested because he is perpetually 13 years old with teenster ego totally intact. Even a heart attack didn't teach him a damn thing about the courage of compassion. He knows and he babbles on. I pray for you, Mister Smith, or at least I'm sposttoo. I offer the song to you, Sasha. Maybe some rando has a camera. Doctor Doom was written over the course of 17 months, that third verse was most elusive but like Doom face to face with Mestopholeez - Doom will have his mother's soul back and so it is. That's how Doom rolls, as the kids say, he states his intent. Doom rocks, it's that simple. Good essay. The song is yours.
I am a big Fantastic Four fan. I do remember that fantastic 4 show. Reed and Sue not married and living in different rooms of the Baxter building I really would like to know your "feels" on the new run and origin.
One thing that seems understated in this discussion; Dr Doom is the marvel universe’s most powerful technomancer. So maybe it wasn’t vanity or inpatients that made Doom put the mask on hot. Maybe that was his plan so he could fuse the mask to his face! He could have mixed magic with metallurgy to make the mask. So at 1st his mask was actually his face. But over the years the mask regrow Doom face without the scare. Doom would’ve disfigured his whole face to removed a scar. That sound more the Dr Doom to me.
There have been too many occurrences of people seeing Victor/Dr. Doom's face without the mask and them recoiling in disgust to accept the "his face isn't actually disfigured, it's just a tiny scar and it's all his pride" argument.
I have some of those Spockanalia Fanzines--mostly from the early 70s, they were used as resource materials for the Star Trek animated series--the original animated series. That's going to take some getting used to!
Considering it was Jack Kirby and Stan Lee that apparently saw his face are we sure they weren't just messing with Doom. That seems very them that they'd overreact even though it's fine
I'm so glad in these ridiculous times, someone is asking the real questions. Personally, I find perfectionism a libido killer. Meglomania also a big turn off.
Even in Doom 2099 there's a moment where the 2099 ruler of Latveria wants to gaze upon the face of Doom and is like, "It's rumored your face is scared. Let's make that happen." Then gives him a scared disfigured face of legend to match the reality.
XD I love this. Also I feel like there is an itch in artists to at least TRY making someone hot for a time at least. Just ... can't...NOT.... Deadpool seems to be a favorite to try it on for instance! That or go way the other way. Art is awesome.
Again, great topic, which has haunted me and occasionally makes me search for all manor of evidence. I assume he is gravely disfigured. I have loved him in Secret Wars thru Infamous Iron Man, but his theme park rides cue line animations show his extremes and reveal warped, grotesquely scarred tissue around the eyes. If his eyes still function, as we believe they do, his upper face received the least damage from the explosion. His lower face has to be a puckered mass of scar tissue and his mouth fairly functional yet no longer viewable without a strong stomach. I think Kirby wanted to retcon his creation to seem traumatized by the slight imperfection, but originally he wanted a monster behind a mask wishing only for revenge upon his inferiors. Personally, I've stuck with a few minor scenes from Super Villain Team Up of the 70's. Servants who enter Dooms chambers unannounced often have looks of intense horror when they look upon their master. That ain't no shaving accident.
Dysmorphia Doom checks out, I really like his current ongoing solo series because it explores that little corner of his own personal hell while also begging the same questions we always ask when it comes to him - is this really what's going on or is it just that he's a drama queen? He's definitely a character who has multiple different interpretations from the reading the same material, anyway, that's part of what makes him great.
I have that issue where Doctor Donald Blake reacts to Doom"s appearance 9:53, so for me its a horribly disfigured face he has to stare at in the mirror. If Kirby and the rest had avoided showing other people's reaction to Doom"s appearance then the slight facial scar theory would have worked for me.
Schrodingers Doom: he is both hot and not hot at the same time.
I was hoping for this comment.
Actually it could be true. I mean, this is an idea based on pure speculation, but what if magic played a role here? What if his face changed according to the circumstances? What if his face was perceived differently by each person?
@@grogu9698 This should be canon. Maybe a curse placed on Doom or his family. And it neatly makes it all work.
Hot / hoter
" My mask shields me from an imperfect world !!!!". His face is too good for anyone to look at.
I have always loved the idea That Doom's scars are minimal yet he hides under his mask because of his inmense vanity, it just tells a lot about the character.
Reminds me of Vega from Street Fighter. Another *unbelievably* vain person.
@@vic5015 - Pretty much!
@@Jean-Paul-Lane-Valley if you ask me the best way to humiliate Vega is to beat him, destroy his mask, rip up his face with his claws, castrate him, destroy his privates, and then call EMS to make sure that he survives his wounds.
I imagine a zine panel of his where he sees his face like a picasso
" I'm the handsomest man alive, I hide behind this mask to make Reed Richards feel guilty about my " Accident".
I feel that Doom being slightly scarred and suffering from bodydismorphia lends more to a deeper character than just, "I'm ugly and I'm mad".
Isn't being slightly scarred and having dysmorphia the same?
Is DOCTOR DOOM Hot?
NIGHTWING Best Superhero Butt?
Human Torch in the corner: "They ask you how you are? and you just have to say that you're fine, when you're not really fine."
That was really good. 😂😂😂😂
Omega преКРАСНЫЙ I burst laughing
i guess Sasha have to ask next , " Is the Human Torch hot?"
@@antwan1357 lol😂
@@antwan1357 Temperature-wise, that question seems to answer itself.
"Well that's one relationship that was (...sunglasses on...) 'Doomed' from the start."
YEEAAAAAAHHHHH
You are what the internet wants to be when it grows up. Thank you for making my day.
@@levidoyle3411 Thank you, Dude.
👍
Wow, you are so clever 🙄 you must be so proud of yourself 🙄 (silently cries to myself that I didn’t make the joke first 😓😢)
I love that the perfectionism/body dismorphia idea in a super villain. It makes sense because so many of them are narcissists. It's such a cool idea worth exploring.
That panel of Doom lying face down on the snow is one of the most unintentionally hilarious things I have seen in a while.
Modern Doom hide his face because everyone confuses him with Julian McMahon.
Doom probably thinks he's disfigured, but in real life he's normal. I like his fights between The Thing and The Hulk.
A good looking man, charming person and talented actor.😊
Alternative take: he thinks the metal mask is way cooler than his real face.
He's an authentic metalhead.
Too on the nose?
This reminds me of the Mean Seasons episode of the 90's Batman cartoon, and the Villain Calendar Girl. She wore a mask because she was convinced she was hideous, because of Body Dysmorphia developed from working as a model and actress and starting to fall out of favor.
@Instrumentality1000 Yes, they mentioned a few times that his scars are too severe for plastic surgery. Why that would be a problem to a guy that builds devices that break the rules of physics on a daily basis is another question.
I found the end of that episode pretty sad with Batgirl saying "She's beautiful" and Batman going "She can't see that anymore. All she sees are the flaws."
Very interesting concept. I've always thought of Dr. Doom being horribly disfigured and the nerves of his face permanently damaged from the explosion.The idea that Dr. Doom being an extreme perfectionist is pretty interesting and fits so well. There's a part of me thinking about those extreme reactions of other characters are more like, "Oh ho! He's too hot!" Although, it would be pretty funny if all he had was a scar on his face, and it was revealed to a character like it was a big moment, and the other character would have no reaction, or more of a 'Okay, i see your face...what about it?"
Conan had this reaction. But I think that's because he is used to see a lot of ugly people from the Hiborian age xD
You know what's weird? Doom has the full capabilities to fix whatever scarring he has no issue, between his mastery of magic, his understanding of all fields of science and the resources of an entire country, there is nothing that stops him from fixing it. My thinking is Doom has such high levels of Pride that the idea that any part of him needs to be "fixed" would wound him immensely, so he would never accept it, unless he reached an ultimate victory in which Doom felt that he was above perfection.
I always though he had a slight scar after the accident but if you take a red hot mask and put it straight on your face you are going to get burns and then massive scars.
But it's Doom though. His magic power is retardedly high. Can you see doctor strange touching hot metal and not burning himself due to his magic? He sure can. And if he can do something so mundane, so can Doom.
Doom has been known to have uber-healing powers through magic and I think at one time he stole or borrowed Wolverine's healing ability. I do remember something about Doom stealing Wolverine's adamantium skeleton. Doom's armor itself is mystical and is supposed to have numerous powers.
The myth is he had a small scar but he made it worst by him putting on his hot mask which is magical
@@louisvictor3473 yet he didn't in the comic panels
@@ranwolf7650 Yet in both versions of this in the comic panels it never shows you enough to make the claim he did or didn't. One version just have him to continue to talk normally. The other has him reacting in a very Doomy way, then shoving his face on snow, but then the monks who made the mask and see his face talk about it with vague language that can be read as both surprise his face is not further damage after the mask or if it is harmed and they're worried. In both _we_ don't actually get to see his face after the mask, and it is intentionally left without confirmation. All we know from both is that it was hot one the one hand, and on the other it is Doom we are dealing with.
4:50, I really want a "make them all like me" type story, where Doom just runs around with a shaving razor, nicking everyone.
That Kirby sketch is part of what made me fall in love with the character. I love the idea that his scaring is far less big of a deal than he thinks it. He is just that vain. That is my headcanon on the character. (Edit: The news to me is how not-alone I am in this sentiment.)
Based on the body dysmorphia theory, it’s kinda funny to think that people reacting to Doom’s face were just doing it to mess with him.
I saw this pop up and before I even watch it the answer is yes, he is a Doctor, a lord, land owner and not Reed.
And he’s got magic. 😍🤤
WhiteRaven696 that’s very true. Another point to his hotness
Not Reed being the hottest of traits.
@@Chatedh not sure. Even a wet half burned half moldy sock is not Reed, and better than Reed. Pretty low bar to not be Reed.
the mask just makes him hotter. They may as well call him Dr Dom
Well, he was hot when he first put the mask on, that's for sure.
I know people that adamantly believe Doom should look harsher Eastern European facial features, and not strictly handsome, which is a weird hill to die on, but okay.
(Hey, I remember Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes, it's my favorite incarnation of the team, glad it's on Disney+for most people to see.)
Makes much more sense and is more satisfying if Doom's an insane genius with body dysphoria than a Phantom of the Opera trope.
I'm one of the biggest Doctor Doom collectors in the country. With that being said;
I feel that John Byrne's take on Doom's face, in "Fantastic Four"#278, was brilliantly
handled. For years, Stan Lee insisted that Doom's face was completely destroyed, due
to the lab accident. At the same time, Jack Kirby held to the notion that Doom only
suffered a scar from same said accident. What John Byrne did was take both creators'
take on the character, combining both ideas. Thus, combining both the scar, and total
disfigurement, finally giving the definitive answer to Doom's ruined face. With this, #278
is a brilliant KEY issue, ending the confusion once and for all. As to whether or not Doom
is hot, It's really not my place to answer since I'm attracted to women, and not men.. ;)
In any event, a most enjoyable subject. Thanks for yet another fine post.
But clearly it didn't end the confusion...or this video wouldn't have been made.
And Byrne's story makes Doom look like a complete moron. (Is he unaware that metal conducts heat?) And I don't think Doom is supposed to be stupid.
My brain instantly assumed the suit had cakes 🎂
I mean Reed could give himself a dumptruck at will if he wanted, and I doubt Doom would be able to accept Reed having a nicer ass.
...but the cake is a lie.
Haven't even watched the vid yet, but my answer is a resounding "Hell yes!" It's about his demeanor (and his kickass cape!), not about his appearance.
This! So much this! Doom has such charisma that it goes through the page, is always amazing.
It’s so cool seeing actual footage of Jack Kirby talking to the fans.
In the comics after his accident after trying to contact and save his mom from hell using magic his face was scared. Then he burned off his face because he refused to let his metal mask cool after it was made. Then his face was healed when he got the powers of the beyonder.
Took the powers of the beyonder. That's one of Doom's best tropes, his knack for usurping stupendous cosmic powers. It was far more interesting to read Dr Doom as the pinnacle villain in the Secret Wars, rather than the Beyonder
He stole the Beyonder's powers, healed his face, but then he lost those powers, and lost his healed face.
@Flurry I'm talking about the original Secret Wars in the 1980s. The image of Doom unmasked in this video's thumbnail is from that maxi-series.
First, thanks for the info on Doom being designed to resemble the Grim Reaper/Death. I never heard that before.
Kirby's minimizing Doom's scar in the sketch (I think there's a video of him drawing it!) is simply Kirby reevaluating the character after years of growth. Doom had become a deeper character in the years between his creation and the time of the sketch, and Kirby's thoughts on Doom's personality had no doubt changed during that time as well.
Kirby is one of Byrne's heroes, so he wouldn't thoughtlessly undo something Kirby had done, though he might revise/tweak it a bit to fit then-current continuity and perceptions. Old Marvel comics: "Doom's face is heavily scarred." Reconsidered perceptions about the character: "Doom only thinks he's heavily scarred." Can there be a middle ground somehow? Yes, and Byrne threaded that needle. (Though he did put the scar on the other side of Victor's face. Oops.)
I think dismorphia doom is more interesting, and always thought of him as being a very handsome man that can't see his handsomeness. He sees himself as above everyone else, but doesn't see himself as above himself. He's ambitious, but knows his limits well enough to break them where needed (or when it comes to dunking on the Fantastic Four).
Tho, I only really know Doom from the cartoons and movies. So... yea
Doom up to before Mark Waid got his greasy pawns on him was very consistent with the way you see him. After Waid it has been all over the place.
Reading the title of the video like "Ah yes, this is exactly why I follow this channel"
It's not the scar. Doom's Zaddy attitude is what makes him HAWTT! That, and the total confidence with which he wears that mini dress and cape.
Sasha! Fun post! Dr. Doom, it developed was trying to find a way to traverse the living and dead boundary to try and save his dead mother. The pictures in FF#5 of the super-hot mask being applied to his damaged face would leave more than a scratch under his eye IMHO!!
The story I knew was that he too quickly put on the mask and burned himself exacerbating his injury. This video shows the complexity of the issue. Interesting video Sasha.
When you decide to go for super villainy, are you going to hire on henchmen?
Doom only had two choices: get cosmetic surgery or wear a heavy iron mask with a green hoody instead.
What if his dysmorphia is so bad that every time he takes off his mask and someone's like, 'that scar looks like it hurt' or whatever, he perceives it as them freaking the hell out because he can't imagine them reacting otherwise?
Hey Sasha! If you read this in time, I hope you’ll do a video talking about your feelings for (or against?) Reed Richards.
Fantastic stuff. Super well researched and a lovely digression in the middle. Your fast becoming my favourite comics youtuber.
Love your channel.
New fan theory I just thought of: Dr. Doom is based off the Phantom of the Opera! Sue Storm is the opera singer he pines for, and depending on who's telling the story he can either be fully disfigured like the Lon Chaney portrayal, handsome but scarred like the Gerard Butler portrayal, or not disfigured at all like the Julian Sands portrayal :)
Yes! I’m glad I am not the only one who thinks of it this way.
I mean in the original storie the Phantom is not disfigured is whole body looks like a corps, he's basically a living zombie.
Another great video, Casually - I as a kid, I collected the end of the Byrne run (and early bits of it from the quarter bins), his work on Doom was among the best of his career
I was watching this with my wife and when we got to the part about it just being a little scar, she was like, "he invents all this stuff, why not just invent something to remove the scar. Or, like, wear concealer. He is having a huge mask right now, just a little bit of makeup would fix it." I told her that is why women don't write good comics. They just have too much common sense. (it was a joke, she laughed, don't freak out)
I'm guessing it's because they would solve alot of the problems that weren't though through!
Or use his time machine to prevent the accident in the first place.
The horrified reaction to Doom’s as yet unrevealed face early on, given the lesser severity it held when actually revealed, could they have been reacting in such a way to the fact that it wasn’t that bad? Like, “No! We thought he’d look more horrific, but he’s actually handsome! No one must see this! Especially Susan!”.
I’ve always gone with the idea that the explosion he caused in college gave him only the tiniest scar imaginable on his face, just enough to be noticeable. But his ego was so huge that he rushed to put on his mask before it cooled from the forge, welding it to his face.
It's always been my thought that while he's always been scarred since putting the mask on, he had it restored twice. Once during the original Secret Wars and then again after the most recent when Reed and Molecule Man restored it.
Most of the times I think he uses magic to disguise himself. I'm not sure what he looks like now after the Infamous Iron Man run.
It was established the Doom has extremely strong willpower. (He resisted Purple Man's powers.) It would be interesting if it were found out that in addition to having dysmorphia, he is also slightly telepathic. If the person is weak-willed or unsuspecting they see Doom the way he pictures himself, severely disfigured, but if they are strong-willed or can concentrate, they see him as barely scarred. The stronger their willpower, the less disfigured he appears, while the stronger his willpower, the more disfigured he appears to himself.
When characters see Doom’s face, what if the over-the-top reactions aren’t their actual reactions, but instead Doom projecting his expectations of how people would react?
As for Kirby's intentions, couldn't the Marvel method have led to a disconnect between the art and the dialogue? Maybe the intention of the art was the witnesses being shocked and surprised at who he was, the otherwise handsome heir of the Latveria who had gone missing or otherwise secluded himself from the public for years. Then this got changed in dialogue to what we know today?
OH MY GOD
Thank you for explaining that Fanfics aren't entirely self insert and stuff
Scars or no scars, it's the personality that makes Doom hot.
Your channel has become one of my favorites since i was lucky enough to stumble onto it. Thanks for the quality content
I am a simple man. I see Dr Doom, I click and like the video.
It is amazing how Jack Kirby’s description of Doom is how I imagine Bruce Campbell is in real life…
Thanks for the clarification on your scar. I must admit that while I find your commentary intelligent and insightful, I sometimes found myself focusing on your eyebrow wondering if it was a scar or had some secret meaning. I also loved the Heinlein reference in a recent video. I wasn't sure anyone read R.A.H. any more. Keep up the good work.
Really loving the content . Keep it coming.
In "If This be Doomsday" (Fantastic Four #236) Sue SEES Doom's face up-close and personal. We the reader can't see what she sees, but she's clearly revolted by the sight of it and says something like "I knew his face had been disfigured, but I never suspected that it would be THAT horrible.." Not quoting -word-for-word, mind you... it's been over thirty years
By the way, you should explore the new Dr Doom series. It adds a bit of explanation to Kang and Doom's relationship, plus the amount of sass you get from both is gold. I'd love to see your take on the run.
It doesn't make any sense that Doom would have been so anxious to put the mask on, not even waiting for it to cool. Being a scientist and at least somewhat familiar with metallurgy, that putting searing hot metal on human flesh is probably not a good idea. One would think, but one would be wrong, wouldn't one.
I have always liked the idea that doom is one of the most attractive people ever born but has a nick on his face from the accident. Doom is person that suffers no slight and anything that irks him must be destroyed. The nick on his face is a slight, and a symbol of the slight Reed Richards gave him the day of the accident.
Casually Comics has quickly become my favorite comics channel. Keep it up Sasha! 👍
I'm glad I found your channel Sasha! :)
I had always subscribed to the notion that Doom was burned horribly when he put on the mask, but I absolutely love the idea that it's a minor blemish and his conceit amplifies it in his own mind. That's so Doom.
This channel is soooo ramdomly whimsical! 😍
Never cover that scar! It’s cute af. Also I dig curbys idea of his perfectionist personality and body dismorphia causing Dooms insecurity. Great episode. Gracias.
You always crack me up love your content ❤️
I remember a friend telling me about one of his favorite stories of all time:
It was probably a one-shot revolving around an insurance representative showing up to Doom's estate. The mission was to deliver the paycheck for damages incurred to Latverian / Doom holdings, possibly from heroes. After finally getting past the many security obstacles to the front door, he had to inform Doom that the check could only be released with verification with photo id.
I do not remember if there were precious representatives that did not reach the front door.
Yes, that was in the Damage Control mini series. LOVED the comic!
Hearing you onomatopoeia "ptui" has made my day!
Consider talking about Sabretooth from Marvel. Everybody loves him as a villain now but forgets how Cage used to use him as a punching bag and how his most humiliating defeat was at the hands of Black Cat!
I think you should make a video talking about the fact that Doom has a huge crush on Namor
Just listening to this I had a question. Is there any case in comics where a person's face is terribly disfigured, they make a mask to hide it, but they do it so they can keep making kids happy?
You mention the idea of fan-fic being a legitimate art form of it’s own. I agree. One of the best examples I have ever come across was inspired by Marion Zimmer Bradley. She is best known for writing ‘The Mists of Avalon’ but she also wrote the Darkover Series-a sci-fi series about a planet that was colonized by humans and what happens over thousands of years. Bradley was highly engaged with her fans and was impressed by their takes on her world. A group called the Friends of Darkover would publish newsletters and ‘fanzines’ about Bradley and the world she had created. She often took the time to edit her fans fanfics and helped get these works published. She even published anthologies of fanfic works. Some of my favorite stories about Darkover were those fanfics. This went on for over a decade. It wasn’t until a few incidents occurred-one where a fan published a fanfic in a magazine without the Bradley’s permission and when the author of a fanfic threatened to sue Bradley over an idea-that Bradley stopped her involvement with her fans. This was really sad because she had helped several inspiring writer to get their start in the field. It was great while it lasted and it showed just how good fanfic could be.
Doom's first face reveal was through Alicia Masters, who read it in Braille and was horrified
Now I'm curious about how you got your scar. You might have addressed it before but I'm new to the channel and I just think it looks cool.
honestly I love the idea of its jsut a tiny scar but he has blown it out of proportion in his mind
also what are the good Ric Grayson fix it fics out there? cause damm that needed fixing and I trust you on the recs on thatXD also damm that X files photo, the x files publicity photos will never cease to amaze meXD
Thanks for the fan fic rant. Very informative.
It is funny how doom is a good guy when his face is fixed and a super villain when he is disconfigurated. It is like a flip switch.
Anyway in the end of infamous ironman he was disconfigurated again and turned back into a super villain and was not a small scar his entire face was burned by a demon and that is how he looks today.
Greetings Sasha! I’m an older reader who’s been appreciating your channel as one of four I’ve found worth their salt (pun unintentional). The others are; Comics Tropes, Strange Brain Parts, and Beyond The Trailer (comic movies). Love the anecdotes regarding things old, new and especially obscure. Regarding Von Doom I think there’s one other middle ground between Kirby and Byrne. Some things can and should be left to the reader’s imagination. Another great Doom unmasked story takes place in the sequel to Marvel’s Earth X series Universe X. In it he confesses/apologizes to Sue Richards all his sins against Reed & the FF. And now, here’s a subject I’d love for you to tackle: What’s the best “kill the universe story”? Including that time Capt. America did in What If? against Korvac. Makes Thanos look like a crossing guard on lunch break. Check ‘em out.
Probably, every time a character is shocked by seeing Doom's face is just because his face is beyond our beauty criteria; the most handsome man in history has severe dysmorphia, the true tragedy.
Asking the questions that need to be asked since the time of this recording
There is a story in comics where Doom goes to Hell in order to save his mother's soul. In that story, the explosion that "disfigures" his face was caused by Doom trying to get to Hell and failing. In that story, Doom hides his face because he can't stand to look himself in the mirror, do to that failure. I want to see that story in a movie so bad.
Wasn't expecting the fanfic lesson! Look up how James Barrie once wrote one for his friend Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, where Sherlock Holmes met Peter Pan...
What, seriously? Now I'm on a train of thought about Anais Niin writing the erotica for her editor that somehow always "vanished", Robert E. Howard and Lovecraft being pen pals, the stuff done later with Verne.... Cool, thank you, that will be worth looking up!
Dr.Doom is actually "Calendar Girl" from Batman
I remember a sequence from the first Z=Secret Wars back in 84 when, after acquiring the Beyonder's powers the first thing Doom did was repair his face, when is shown and it only has a small scar on on side, yet he wastes no time in fixing it...which, among other things, shows why Doom wasn't ready for that kind of power since the fist thing he did with is was an act born of vanity and selfishness.
He also kills all of the heroes, but his minion (Klaw?) keeps taunting him that he can't control all of the power he has, and that maybe unconsciously he might use a fraction of his power to save the heroes. He describes to Doom in detail how it could happen, and Doom accidentally makes it happen.
It's like it someone says "Don't think about elephants." then all you can think about is elephants. Klaw (?) puts the idea in Doom's head and he can't help himself but making it happen.
I read both the Kirby run and the Byrne run in real time because I was born 10,000 years ago. All this other stuff-- the Secret Wars stuff, and the Hickman run, etc.-- about all that, I'm not so sure, chronologically speaking. My memory is terribly bad, but here goes anyway.
In the 1960s' FF Annual #2, we were given to understand that Doom's face was horribly disfigured when he tried to contact the nether world and his contraption blew up. Later, when he put on his newly forged mask for the first time, he showed no pain. Presumably, it caused no additional scarring. That revision happened only in the later retcon by Byrne (IIRC). So, that was how the story went for about 20 years, until Byrne wrote his retcon in the 1980s. All the other artists and writers 'til then followed the story as established in FF Annual #2. Byrne's 1980s revision was apocryphal and non-canonical at the time it was published. Which is fine, because that's how Marvel comics always work.
What I'm even less sure about is the timing of the Kirby sketch, where Doom removes his mask to reveal the tiny scar. I think I probably saw that sketch in a Comics Journal Kirby interview, some time after the Byrne retcon had already been published. I also seem to recall that the sketch was drawn by Kirby for a fan, so, since it wasn't published by Marvel, it was even more non-canonical than the retcon. And, I think the claim by Kirby at the time of this reveal was that he had drawn it BEFORE the Byrne retcon-- again, I could be completely wrong about this-- but my impression at the time was that Kirby's memory was even worse than my own, and this came during the time when he was claiming to have invented everything first. And, maybe he did, but I just don't really know. It seemed like he was trying to jump Byrne's claim to this later idea, which was very popular at the time. I love Kirby and I could be wrong. I love Byrne too. Circumspectively, and with regards to the FF, maybe even more.
The Byrne retcon came shortly before the Jim Shooter initiated Secret Wars mini-series in the 1980s, which changed everything, and which Byrne truly hated (as did I), because it totally disrupted Byrne's carefully planned and constructed Doom storyline in the FF (along with all other Marvel storylines). Byrne left Marvel shortly thereafter. But before he left, he had written a story which completely destroyed Doom's original body, along with the scar. I can't remember exactly by what deus ex machina later restored Doom's body, but I think it might have been the Walter Simonson story in FF #350. For a long time though, the canon was that Doom was dead, his body destroyed, and he had been replaced by a young boy named Kristoff who had been programmed to believe he was Doom. All versions of Doom's hot body that we've seen thereafter were his magically/scientifically created replacement body, & so, therefore, were any scars thereon.
Sorry that my comments tend to be so long. I get carried away.
I always thought Sasha chose to have the cut through the eyebrow as some fashion thing, now we know she's a super villain in training.
Hoping we get a vid about Cynthia "Bunny" Von Doom soon!
I just finished writing an epic piece called Doctor Doom - metal/psychedelic/drone song done right, finally. If I had a camera like you rich kids I'd be dangerous. Good timing and excellent essay. I'm not making this up - I originally wrote this song for Kevin Smith who lives a half-mile from where I type. He is not interested because he is perpetually 13 years old with teenster ego totally intact. Even a heart attack didn't teach him a damn thing about the courage of compassion. He knows and he babbles on. I pray for you, Mister Smith, or at least I'm sposttoo. I offer the song to you, Sasha. Maybe some rando has a camera. Doctor Doom was written over the course of 17 months, that third verse was most elusive but like Doom face to face with Mestopholeez - Doom will have his mother's soul back and so it is. That's how Doom rolls, as the kids say, he states his intent. Doom rocks, it's that simple. Good essay. The song is yours.
I am a big Fantastic Four fan. I do remember that fantastic 4 show. Reed and Sue not married and living in different rooms of the Baxter building
I really would like to know your "feels" on the new run and origin.
One thing that seems understated in this discussion; Dr Doom is the marvel universe’s most powerful technomancer. So maybe it wasn’t vanity or inpatients that made Doom put the mask on hot. Maybe that was his plan so he could fuse the mask to his face! He could have mixed magic with metallurgy to make the mask. So at 1st his mask was actually his face. But over the years the mask regrow Doom face without the scare. Doom would’ve disfigured his whole face to removed a scar. That sound more the Dr Doom to me.
There have been too many occurrences of people seeing Victor/Dr. Doom's face without the mask and them recoiling in disgust to accept the "his face isn't actually disfigured, it's just a tiny scar and it's all his pride" argument.
Doom doesnt need to take off his mask to flood my basement.
Where you got that Thanos top from? I love it.
I have some of those Spockanalia Fanzines--mostly from the early 70s, they were used as resource materials for the Star Trek animated series--the original animated series. That's going to take some getting used to!
Short answer: yes
Considering it was Jack Kirby and Stan Lee that apparently saw his face are we sure they weren't just messing with Doom.
That seems very them that they'd overreact even though it's fine
I'm so glad in these ridiculous times, someone is asking the real questions.
Personally, I find perfectionism a libido killer. Meglomania also a big turn off.
Even in Doom 2099 there's a moment where the 2099 ruler of Latveria wants to gaze upon the face of Doom and is like, "It's rumored your face is scared. Let's make that happen." Then gives him a scared disfigured face of legend to match the reality.
XD I love this. Also I feel like there is an itch in artists to at least TRY making someone hot for a time at least. Just ... can't...NOT.... Deadpool seems to be a favorite to try it on for instance! That or go way the other way. Art is awesome.
I loved seeing Conan calling Doom vain for wearing a mask and then he takes off the mask so they can enjoy a meal together
Again, great topic, which has haunted me and occasionally makes me search for all manor of evidence. I assume he is gravely disfigured. I have loved him in Secret Wars thru Infamous Iron Man, but his theme park rides cue line animations show his extremes and reveal warped, grotesquely scarred tissue around the eyes. If his eyes still function, as we believe they do, his upper face received the least damage from the explosion. His lower face has to be a puckered mass of scar tissue and his mouth fairly functional yet no longer viewable without a strong stomach. I think Kirby wanted to retcon his creation to seem traumatized by the slight imperfection, but originally he wanted a monster behind a mask wishing only for revenge upon his inferiors. Personally, I've stuck with a few minor scenes from Super Villain Team Up of the 70's. Servants who enter Dooms chambers unannounced often have looks of intense horror when they look upon their master. That ain't no shaving accident.
Dysmorphia Doom checks out, I really like his current ongoing solo series because it explores that little corner of his own personal hell while also begging the same questions we always ask when it comes to him - is this really what's going on or is it just that he's a drama queen? He's definitely a character who has multiple different interpretations from the reading the same material, anyway, that's part of what makes him great.
I have that issue where Doctor Donald Blake reacts to Doom"s appearance 9:53, so for me its a horribly disfigured face he has to stare at in the mirror. If Kirby and the rest had avoided showing other people's reaction to Doom"s appearance then the slight facial scar theory would have worked for me.
But in FF #258 it reveals his entire head is scarred/disfigured, not just his face.