The National Geographic and History channel could save millions. Fire all the staff - except Jenny and Chris to answer the phones - and just show Dr Feltons output. He does more in 10 minutes than these channels do in an afternoon!
Yeah 😄 And it was the propellers’ tips breaking the sound barrier and creating turbulence to the propeller behind what cause the noise I think. Mechanically the gearbox and engines (2) can’t produce that noise with out exploding, noise is energy and that makes metals break
The geographic location of SA made them vulnerable to the USSR attacks, like the wars they fought to the north. The Apartheid - Afrikaner nonsense, a religious thing, made everything toxic... Not every Afrikaner was like that, as with every ideological tragic story... same with the soviets, or today’s communist atrocities: weakness and fear fuels this nonsense
@@RebeccaCampbell1969 This sounds a lot like terrorist talk and is therefore dismissed. Anyways yes, it is a shame that the SATO proposed by von Mellenthin wasnt established.
I grew up in Cape Town and was into surfing. Sitting waiting for waves they'd fly over heading out to sea on maritime patrol. They never flew North into the operational areas, that was not their mission with the SAAF.
With the longest mission in one being slightly under 24 hours thats understandable. You'd be surprised how many people want to be inside one now though!
@@mitseraffej5812 The joke is that Mr.3 Shalcktons were soundproofed on the inside as well as other crew comforts due to the awfully loud engines and what I presume was rattling of the rivets.
With only 2 Lanc's still airworthy, in in UK and the other in Canada, seeing the Shackleton and the Lancaster in the air together would be a truly remarkable feat.
I live in West London and always see one of the original Lancasters flying low over my house every time they are used in fly-bys for any big Royal events a couple of miles away over Buckingham Palace,and Spitfires too,always an awesomely good looking and sounding experience!!...Very moving too.
Good for you mate. Mate of mine my want a word though, he had farmers caused by tons of hours on Shacks as a nav. He said his arse couldn't cope with seats. Couldn't you have done something?!
@@bilbobigbollix7318 i was only a contractor at the chadderton and woodford factories so not down to me sorry about your mate though lol and i can tell you now anyone who flew in them or was involved loves them and would go and fly in one right now lol
@@steveholmes5207 - Yeah, he loved 'em despite the painful memories! I've got an old movie film clip that dad took of a low level Shack bimbling along off the coast of St Ives in 1966. Alway wondered if it was my mate getting lost in it!
@Steve Holmes: Why didn't you name the factory, if you worked there? Assuming a young man 21 years of age as the worker you claim, you'd be some 90 years old making this comment, which is thus suspiciously apocryphal.
@@elrjames7799 i did in another message to someone else built at chadderton nr Manchester and assembled and flown at woodford in Cheshire i was there when the last when the last 5 RAF Mk 2 AEW shackleton's all came to woodford so why would you dispute that i had worked there or not i saw all the AEW nimrod being manufactured i saw the first flight of the ATP advanced turbo prop p.s my father is the president of the woodland of the aviation heritage centre at woodford which is no longer a working airfield hope that put your mind at rest and put you in the picture
Well Tankers are are bigger than Warships woch makes them harder to sink ,the anti ship missiles werent that precise and the Tanker was filled with oil wich certainly helped to stay afloat. Also As 30 weren't like specifically anti ship missiles but rather precision Rockets for ground attack
given that she was on a reef, and the AS-30 was designed to strike pretty high above the waterline and had an armour piercing warhead, it wouldn't surprise me if the missiles just went right through the superstructure of the ship without exploding and hit the water some distance away, harmless to the single hulled behemoth.
I remember the Shackeltons (along with the Buccaneers) when they were based at RAF Lossiemouth. I will never forget the sound of those Griffon engines.
While stationed at RAF Kinloss during the early 80’s, I was lucky enough to get a flight in an 8 Sqn Shack. 11 hours over the North Atlantic- it took almost the same amount of time for my hearing to recover and the curious buzzing sensation to ease! It was a fantastic experience and I was very aware that I was flying in a unique example of British aviation history.
@12jsteve. 11 hours you are lucky, I know someone (a rock FSgt) who was at Lossie, saw a Shack land, and said to an officer 'I would love a flight in one of those!' A few days later he got his wish! Over 11 hours later he was seen by the same officer who asked him if he had enjoyed his jolly. His response was 'Peace off!' At least the officer just laughed!!
I lived just 900 mt from the Ysterplaat runway back in the sixties. Nothing like it to see these coming in low on final approach with landing lights blazing and deafening noise right over our house....magnificent!
My father was a Shackleton pilot out of Ballykelly and for a while Sharjah airfields. No. 210 Sqn. Died some years ago. He managed to wreck one on landing at Ballykelly but all on board survived with only very minor injuries. I would really love to see WR963 in the air again, there really is no sound like it.
@@andyharding1514 Avro had a plan to do a flypast at the Farnborough Air show with all 4 RR Griffins feathered and just flying on the jets. Not sure if it was allowed due to the operation time limits on the jets. The jet engineer said it would not be a problem but I am not sure what happened.
My grandparents lived across the road from AFB Ysterplaat, and I grew up hearing these amazing planes taking off, and landing. We could just about see the runway, and I could hear them warming up, and then taxiing! Loved watching them!
I was a young sailor recruit in the South African Navy in the early 80s (Cape Town) -The shacks used to fly over the training base embarking on maritime patrols-something I will always remember.
I live only a few miles from Hamilton, Ontario, where the Canadian Avro Lancaster is kept. I often see & HEAR the Lancaster fly overhead, once buzzing my family at a Remembrance Day ceremony (my Dad was Lancaster mechanic during WWII). It would be wonderful to see one of these Shackletons do a fly by...especially since I didn't even know of their existence before this time. Thanks again for an informative video.
@Jake Roberts WELL this being South Africa, the Corona virus is saving more lives than it's taking. With all the liquor stores being closed, crime is down 200%. Only in the RSA. Oh the irony.
Yes and you can claim that you solved an ecological disaster by doing more ecological damage, sinking an oil tanker that will pollute the sea for 50 years!
@@bobmarshall3700 said by the usual poorly informed suspect, you underestimate just how vast the ocean is, the only reason oil is a problem is when its on the surface and can coat things, dispersed deep, its just food for bacteria. Its like how democrats in the us have no clue that almost 3 million die on a normal year when they cry about the virus.
I remember watching a Shackleton flying over the North Sea when I was a kid. A fisherman had fallen overboard and it had been sent to search for him. Unfortunately they never found him. And yes it was very noisy. I was stood on the beach watching it flying around and though it was some distance away I could still hear it.
My Dad, as a flight engineer flew Lancasters, and Lincolns after WW2 ( then the B29) and said that they were the noisiest planes ever but he loved his experience. So fast forward to the mid 70’s and as a pilot I was flying a Beechcraft Queen Air at about 1000 feet over the Moray Firth to Dounreay when a Shackleton formated on my left wing... very close. I was so impressed and nostalgic, we flew for about 50 miles together. The Queen air was a very noisy plane but the Shackleton could be heard very loudly in our plane, we waved goodbye as the cliffs appeared to the north.
That'd be something to have a formation made up of an Avro Lancaster and Shackleton flying overhead. Imagine the wonderful symphony of sound of the Rolls Royce Merlin (Lancaster) and Griffon (Shackleton) engines being heard overhead! Nice story about the "shack" and thanks for sharing!
Thanks for this one Mark, I was 10 years old growing up in Cape Town and remember this incident vividly. I and the rest of Cape Town also grew up with Shacks flying out of Ysterplaat AFB all through my youth. They were majestic and loud.
Great story. An old SA friend did his military service as groung crew for one of these planes. Not justifying apartheid in any way, but SA furnished valuable Intel to the west on Russian naval activity.
Sad to say that politics got in the way of the proper recognition of SAAF's contribution in the desert in WW2. I'm no supporter of apartheid, quite the opposite in fact, but the SA pilots made a great contribution in Hurricanes and Spitfires that were a bit worn out to say the least.
What a great video. That brings back memories because we used to live near RAF St Mawgan in the 1960s and Shackletons used to fly low over our house making an incredible noise. Residents didn’t like the noise but I used to love it as a teenager. The Shacks had 37 litre Rolls Royce Griffon V12 engines, a derivative of the famous 27 litre Merlins. Those bigger engines and the contra-rotating props are what gave the Shacks their distinctive sound. The Mark 3s had a tricycle undercarriage with the retractible radar dome at the rear of the aeroplane, I always thought they were better looking than the Mark 2s with the rear tail wheel and Radome in the nose. Several kids at my school had fathers who either flew in them or worked as ground crew.
Thanks for this wonderful episode Mark. I've read a lot of the comments questioning the methods used to dispose of the problem but no-one seems to realise that it was an entirely different era and the SAAF probably only followed the actions of the RAF during the Torrey Canyon disaster of 1967. It is clear that the South African government did wake up to the pollution dangers after the sinking of the Wafra, and since the closure of the Suez Canal (1967to 1975) meant more traffic and ever larger ships rounding the Cape; they funded 2 hugely powerful tugs and a fleet of anti-pollution vessels to counter such an occurrence. The tugs were named Wolraad Woltemade and John Ross; after two historical South African heroes.
My dad flew this in the 50’s in Scotland. As a boy he took us to the observation deck at Heathrow to watch planes taking off and landing. He was still with us when I got hired with the commuters in the USA but gone by the time I got to the majors. We never got to take our planned flight together but one day we will. RIP dad.
The Avro Shackelton only retired from South African Air Force in 1990. I live in Cape Town South Africa and Ysterplaat Airforce base have been their main base when they where operated. Thanks for your videos. Like your channel
Was given the chance to go up in a Shack in 1957 whilst on HMS Defender to have a go at A/S detection from an aircraft. Instead ended up tracking 2 Russian destroyers that had entered the Med. Our radio packed up so no one knew if we were still up there. Landed 8 hours later.
A friend of mine died when his Shackleton flew into the hills on the Western Isles in 1990. I remember the magnificent site and sound of them flying over when I lived in Lossiemouth.🎉
Great aircraft! The sound of the Griffon engines is always awesome!!!! Served in the SAAF as Logistician many moons ago.. when it was still a functional force.
Nice to see this particular video. I was stationed at St. mawgen at the turn of the century as part of the Joint Maritime Force manning the undersea surveillance system (IUSS). Every day we came to work there sitting on it's haunches was the Avro Shackleton. Cornish aviation societies were always there on weekends attempting various restorations. Nice to see the level of enthusiasm.
Dankie dr. Felton. I recall the oil - tanker. On holiday to Struisbaai & L'Aghullas the rocks was all covert with the sticky staff. My brother, Nel, served his 2 yrs at SALM/ SAAF at Langebaanweg in mid 1980's. ( Langebaanweg Airforce Base is close to Saldanha baai/ bay.) After his time he worked at Atlas Vliegtuigkorporasie/ - Airplane Corporation. He said South Africa had a problem to get new parts for the planes. To make the part form new was to build a machine and very expensive. It was ("much") cheaper to import from England or France. But we can't import. To day he is in New Zealand. Never in his live (1960-2000+) did he ever thought in post 50-th birthday, he'll serve a different country...
Sadly, "was" being the most operative word in the sentence. They even started early... mere months into the "new dispensation"... by ditching one of the last flying Shacks in the Sahara desert, where it lies rotting to this day. SAAF museum declined seriously after that. Another sad loss was the Spitfire... personally, I believe lost to egotism.
@@ttggreen1 Or as some call it of late South African Air Farce. They even ran out of fuel one year, having to cancel all airshows and unnecessary flights without notice
Thank you for the mention of the Pima Air Museum, a world class aviation museum that spans all decades of flight! I've glanced at their Shackleton as I've driven by.
I recall spending a few nights in a tent on a camp site overlooking RAF St Mawgan, back in the 1960s, and listening to Shacks doing practice 'Circuits and Bumps' over the tent. I could almost reach up and touch them! Tended to disturb the night sleep :grin:
As a South African, I must say thanks for this video. Unfortunatly because this happened during apartheid and our government loves covering up anything good that happened back then that shows the apartheidsgovernment in a good light.
If the dumb morons in the South African Gov't had a simple thing like an ocean-going tug on immediate standby in one of the busiest sea lanes for oil tankers in the world - even subsidized by the mega-trillion dollar oil companies whose tankers use those sea lanes on a regular basis - this tanker would have probably been rescued before it hit the rocks in the first place, and this whole ugly oil mess could have been prevented.
I think I need to sue Mark for pain and anguish. When he said "100 thousand rivets flying in close formation," I choked on my coffee! As for the Wafra, after suffering 7 missile hits and not sinking, it was a lowly tanker with the heart of a battleship. I can imagine it saying, "We are entering the digital age and I will start by giving you the middle digit of my starboard side!"
I live near Gatwick AM, so I've been on the Shackleton there. I sat in the cockpit and thought, "don't press anything, you may start the engines!". One of the men there who served on a Shackleton said that there is more electricity in my phone at full charge than the entire aircraft.
As a kid in the early 60's i holidayed in Newquay Cornwall (UK) and used to see the Avro Shackleton's flying overhead regularly from their base at RAF St. Mawgan. They certainly were loud!
Thanks for this. Had two Shackletons at RAF Gan in the Maldives when I was stationed there in 1969/70. Have the Shack to thank for getting me off the Island for a short break in my Tour when I was deployed to RAF Changi in Singapore for a two week familiarization course ....
These monsters used to occasionally fly over my house at low level when I was a kid. I can attest that they were chest rattlingly loud but that never stopped me from racing outside to watch.
Our family were housed at RAF St. Eval in Cornwall in 1956 -1964. When we first moved there the Shackletons flew over the roof of our house on one of the approaches to the runway. A short time later the operations at St. Eval were closed down and the airfield became a big playground for us kids. The Shackleton squadrons and supporting groups including my dad (Air Traffic Control) were moved to RAF St. Mawgan; now Newquay Airport. The Shakletons were still there when we moved to Malta in April 1964.
I lived near RAF Langar in Notts when these were still in service and my father used to take us up there in the 60's to watch them coming in and taking off as they changed rotas.
Picture the scene: 2020. Two retired South African Air Force fitters meet in a bar. After swapping personal histories, it becomes known that one guy is ex 35 Squadron (Shackeltons) and one is ex 28 Squadron (Buccaneers) . An awkward silence follows, and then the 35 Squadron guy says quietly :"SS Wafra" and nods sagely. The 28 Squadron guy slinks out of the bar in embarrassment. "Shaya amanzi!" the 35 Squadron guys says to himself and smiles thinly. (Zulu for "Strike at the water", 35 Squadron motto.) This scenario could have happened, if it wasn't for the Battle of Cassinga, where the Buccaneer boys earned their self respect back again.
I used to love seeing the Meteorological Shackleton flying in the mid 1980's when I was working as a gardener on a large estate near Stranraer on the West Coast of Scotland. Beautiful old girl with very distinctive engine/propeller sound. It used to fly over at least weekly and would turn over the estate and continue back carrying out weather surveys I believe. Thanks for another great bit of un-remembered history and a forgotten war bird. Peace Charlie 🇬🇧
The last remaining running Shackleton gets ground started once a month for fans to come watch. Went just this Saturday. Engine sound is amazing even at 1/4 of full throttle.
For anyone who loves a great tale of courage and indomitable will, the Shackleton is named after Earnest Shackleton, whose Antarctic expedition turned into the most amazing story of human survival of all time. The two best books on it are written by the expedition's doctor and Shackleton himself, take your pick -- you won't be disappointed.
Yes you are quite right, the plane was named after my late grandfather Sir Ernest Henry Shackleton (1874-1922) the famous Antarctic explorer, by the designer of the Lancaster Roy Chadwick, his daughter Margaret was walking out with my father when they both young and were courting but they never got engaged or married to each other, Margaret married a man called Mr Dove, I had the honour in meeting Margaret Dove in the 80s we went to the Hendon Air Museum as both guess on the day that a Shackleton plane came to stay there as a permanent fixture, I don't know if it's still there or not, we both arrived in style I was driving my Grandfathers Motor Car, it's a 1912 Ford Model T., and I still have it today., I am James Shackleton the Grandson of Sir E H Shackleton & Director of J F Shackleton & Sons Funeral Director / Undertakers since 1703
@@jamesshackleton9525 Everyone should have REAL personal heroes, not comic book and movie heroes. I wish more young people understood that they don't need fictional heroes to look up to when true men and women of great achievements and character, past and present, exist. Your great grandfather is one of my personal heroes.
On my RAF Passing-out Parade at RAF Swinderby, the reviewing Officer was the Station Commander from Lossie and we had two Buccs & Shack for the fly-past. I still remember the drone of the Shack after the buccs had gone.
Me neither - i'm guessing dissipating the oil 100's of miles away in a remote area at the time was the better option than close to the coast. I think the oil in time would degrade.
@@Gloopular more that because the oil is so far underwater That the oil will gradually disperse thanks ot ocean currents. Its not crude oil thats dangerous, its large concentrations of it
The idea here wasn't to stop it from leaking completely. It was to keep the oil from washing up all over the South African coast, because coastlines are where oil spills actually do the most ecological damage.
I used to work on Sepecat Jaguars at Lossiemouth back in the mid 80's. We shared our flight line with the Shacks of 8 Squadron and i used to love watching them flying around. One of my most vivid memories was when i was stood on top of a Jaguar when 8 squadron's C.O. was flying his last sortie in a Shack. It flew down our flightline at about 50 feet and when something that big flies so close over your head, it sticks in your memory. Happy days!
I was recently at Pima Air and Space Museum admiring the Shackleton on display there. FWIW, that museum has a excellent display of Cold War era aircraft from the UK.
Fascinating story . One issue I have though is the idea that sinking it relieves the environmental fall out . The oil is still causing ecological damage,,,,you just can’t see it . I saw the same mentality with the Horizon Adventure . They used dispersants which true ,,,made it go away,,,but it just sank to the bottom ....and then moved with the current . In the USA if you use dishwashing soap to make a fuel spill disappear the coast guard will hang you . If your BP though you get an atta’ boy ,🤨
While in the Navy with VP-22 at Sangley Point NAS in the Philippines I was permitted by the British ground crew to walk (and because of the wing) crawl through the aircraft parked there. Thanks for the great video.
Mk 1 and 2 were tail draggers, while the Mk 3 had a nose wheel. The Mk 3 also had a jet engine in the rear of each inboard nacelle to assist in take off.
I really don't understand how they did that. I would have thought it was such a fundamental part of the design that it couldn't be altered. Did they shift the main wheels back and/or extend the fuselage forwards to alter the balance?
@@caw25sha the 2 main gear wheels carry all of the weight in either configuration, the nose or tail wheel is just a prop to keep the ends off the ground ;-)
I remember these aircraft so well whilst living in CAT. I remeber the WAFRA saga but always loved seeing the Shacletons flying over the Cape Penninsula
4 RR Griffons, 8 props, smooth as silk on take off which I experienced once in a RAF Shackleton. Quite a contrast to the rowdy radials of the Sunderlands which I was crew on.
It doesn't. But the intense currents down there and low temperatures will stretch, fold the oily fluid and break it up into droplets that end up suspended in a slurry, like mud. Then oxidation chemistry will finish the job.
The aim wasn't to stop it leaking, it was too late to do that. The reason they wanted to sink it, was because if the ship stayed afloat and drifted back to shore it would cause an ecological disaster on the South African coast. Something they wouldn't be able to ignore and would cost a lot. Whereas this way you can just pretend for the most part it didn't happen and it costs a lot less.
My guess is it will have more time to disperse and possibly degrade in the water, or maybe putting it beyond the continental shelf helped with the oil not being brought to shore as fast.
Having served in the RAF 1961-1975, I often saw Shackletons flying about over the seas, at various Stations I was at (Cyprus for example), possibly practising their search and rescue capabilities, and were a reasonably common site. But that was in the days of Lightning interceptors, Buccaneers, Hunters, Venoms, Canberras, Vulcans, (maybe Victors and Valiants...long time ago now), Harriers, and a delta winged fighter that I cannot remember the name of now. I also saw some Meteors in a hanger and took (on the sly) some b&w pictures of them, and forget where now, but they seem to have been lost now over time and house moves.....
thank you for this, As a SOuth African its nice to hear about things our air force did i havent heard about. remember the crash in the desert watched in the news at the time. was big news at the time.....
@@scottmcintosh4397 She lied in a Tobruk museum in the open air alongside some wrecked 25 pounders and pak's. I had the chance to look around her in 2010. Underneath her paint was immaculate.
Mark Felton does such a good job I'd watch him make a documentary about him making coffee in the morning.
I like to think that he uses the opening music as his ring tone.
That put a smile on my lips!.
And it's true too.
Dr.Felton's work is unimpeachable.
#de cam: please don't say things like that aloud. He may take it seriously and start charging us for it
The National Geographic and History channel could save millions. Fire all the staff - except Jenny and Chris to answer the phones - and just show Dr Feltons output.
He does more in 10 minutes than these channels do in an afternoon!
“At 7:36 am, the kettle began to show signs of boiling, but a nice cup of tea was hardly a foregone conclusion.”
"100 000 Rivets flying in close formation"
Damn thats funny.
rivets
@@ColinH1973 thank you
@@jakobc.2558 no worries mate 👍
Yeah 😄
And it was the propellers’ tips breaking the sound barrier and creating turbulence to the propeller behind what cause the noise I think.
Mechanically the gearbox and engines (2) can’t produce that noise with out exploding, noise is energy and that makes metals break
I've worked on a shackleton and its more than true 🥴.
If there was a space it was filled with a bolt or a rivet !
South Afrika used these aircraft probably longer than any nation as first line aircraft. Loved watching them land and take off during operations.
The geographic location of SA made them vulnerable to the USSR attacks, like the wars they fought to the north.
The Apartheid - Afrikaner nonsense, a religious thing, made everything toxic...
Not every Afrikaner was like that, as with every ideological tragic story... same with the soviets, or today’s communist atrocities: weakness and fear fuels this nonsense
@@RebeccaCampbell1969 This sounds a lot like terrorist talk and is therefore dismissed. Anyways yes, it is a shame that the SATO proposed by von Mellenthin wasnt established.
The RAF used them at least into the seventies. A pair of them used to fly fairly regularly over my school back then. The last one was retired in 1991.
No, as was pointed out, RAF Shacks retired in 1991. The last Squadron (12 Sqn I think) being based at RAF Lossiemouth.
I grew up in Cape Town and was into surfing. Sitting waiting for waves they'd fly over heading out to sea on maritime patrol. They never flew North into the operational areas, that was not their mission with the SAAF.
"A Shackleton taking off was the best sound in the world to hear, because it meant you weren't on board."
With the longest mission in one being slightly under 24 hours thats understandable. You'd be surprised how many people want to be inside one now though!
Lol
WHATD YOU SAY?
Unless you were hearing it from the inside.
@@mitseraffej5812 The joke is that Mr.3 Shalcktons were soundproofed on the inside as well as other crew comforts due to the awfully loud engines and what I presume was rattling of the rivets.
With only 2 Lanc's still airworthy, in in UK and the other in Canada, seeing the Shackleton and the Lancaster in the air together would be a truly remarkable feat.
I live in West London and always see one of the original Lancasters flying low over my house every time they are used in fly-bys for any big Royal events a couple of miles away over Buckingham Palace,and Spitfires too,always an awesomely good looking and sounding experience!!...Very moving too.
Nothing like the sound of a shack sadly missed in the skies and thank you mark for this i worked at the factory where all shackleton's where made 💓👍
Good for you mate. Mate of mine my want a word though, he had farmers caused by tons of hours on Shacks as a nav. He said his arse couldn't cope with seats. Couldn't you have done something?!
@@bilbobigbollix7318 i was only a contractor at the chadderton and woodford factories so not down to me sorry about your mate though lol and i can tell you now anyone who flew in them or was involved loves them and would go and fly in one right now lol
@@steveholmes5207 - Yeah, he loved 'em despite the painful memories! I've got an old movie film clip that dad took of a low level Shack bimbling along off the coast of St Ives in 1966. Alway wondered if it was my mate getting lost in it!
@Steve Holmes: Why didn't you name the factory, if you worked there? Assuming a young man 21 years of age as the worker you claim, you'd be some 90 years old making this comment, which is thus suspiciously apocryphal.
@@elrjames7799 i did in another message to someone else built at chadderton nr Manchester and assembled and flown at woodford in Cheshire i was there when the last when the last 5 RAF Mk 2 AEW shackleton's all came to woodford so why would you dispute that i had worked there or not i saw all the AEW nimrod being manufactured i saw the first flight of the ATP advanced turbo prop p.s my father is the president of the woodland of the aviation heritage centre at woodford which is no longer a working airfield hope that put your mind at rest and put you in the picture
so no one is going to talk about how a severly damaged cargo ship managed to take 7 anti ship missles and still stay afloat?
sods law
She was a tanker and tankers are very hard to destroy with anti ship missiles.
Well Tankers are are bigger than Warships woch makes them harder to sink ,the anti ship missiles werent that precise and the Tanker was filled with oil wich certainly helped to stay afloat. Also As 30 weren't like specifically anti ship missiles but rather precision Rockets for ground attack
given that she was on a reef, and the AS-30 was designed to strike pretty high above the waterline and had an armour piercing warhead, it wouldn't surprise me if the missiles just went right through the superstructure of the ship without exploding and hit the water some distance away, harmless to the single hulled behemoth.
What is it with those anti-ship missiles and having dud warheads? Happened in the Falklands War as well, loads of hits, none exploded inside the ship.
I remember the Shackeltons (along with the Buccaneers) when they were based at RAF Lossiemouth. I will never forget the sound of those Griffon engines.
the sound was fabulous, loved seeing them and the Bucks as they screamed down through the Spey valley on exercise
A common sight in my youth in Moray
I remember them at RAF Kinloss, just along from Lossiemouth, which at the time was a Fleet Air Arm station HMS Fulmar I think.
South Africa was the only country besides UK to fly the "Bucc". Used very successfully in Angola as a ground and strategic target attack aircraft.
Yep the slow drone as the flew out on missions at night whilst as a kid i lived in Forres
While stationed at RAF Kinloss during the early 80’s, I was lucky enough to get a flight in an 8 Sqn Shack. 11 hours over the North Atlantic- it took almost the same amount of time for my hearing to recover and the curious buzzing sensation to ease! It was a fantastic experience and I was very aware that I was flying in a unique example of British aviation history.
@12jsteve. 11 hours you are lucky, I know someone (a rock FSgt) who was at Lossie, saw a Shack land, and said to an officer 'I would love a flight in one of those!' A few days later he got his wish! Over 11 hours later he was seen by the same officer who asked him if he had enjoyed his jolly. His response was 'Peace off!' At least the officer just laughed!!
Info on Ernest you get almost anywhere, to learn about Avro Shackleton you're at the perfect place at Felton's.
The Lincoln has a few good tales.
@@scottleft3672
Tales or tails? 😉
@@TheCimbrianBull both.
I love how the Shackleton served into 1991. It retired just 2 years before the Handley Page Victor.
Fondly remember the Shackleton, and there were many in service when I served with RAF Bomber Command in the 1960s
I lived just 900 mt from the Ysterplaat runway back in the sixties. Nothing like it to see these coming in low on final approach with landing lights blazing and deafening noise right over our house....magnificent!
My old friend was aircrew on these beasts. Sadly he passed away 18 months ago. He had some great stories! RIP Sqn Ldr Tim Cherry MBE RAF.
My father was a Shackleton pilot out of Ballykelly and for a while Sharjah airfields. No. 210 Sqn. Died some years ago. He managed to wreck one on landing at Ballykelly but all on board survived with only very minor injuries.
I would really love to see WR963 in the air again, there really is no sound like it.
Pedro Conejo was your father’s crash on 1st April 1968? If so, I witnessed it!
@@PedroConejo1939 We're working on it. We'll get WR963 up there one of these days. :)
Four Rolls Royce Griffons singing their serenade!!!
Yes, but accompanied by contra rotating props at that!
two Armstrong Siddeley Viper turbojets too on later models
@@andyharding1514 Avro had a plan to do a flypast at the Farnborough Air show with all 4 RR Griffins feathered and just flying on the jets. Not sure if it was allowed due to the operation time limits on the jets. The jet engineer said it would not be a problem but I am not sure what happened.
My grandparents lived across the road from AFB Ysterplaat, and I grew up hearing these amazing planes taking off, and landing. We could just about see the runway, and I could hear them warming up, and then taxiing! Loved watching them!
And the Harvards! Another wonderful aircraft. That engine drone is so distinctive.
I was a young sailor recruit in the South African Navy in the early 80s (Cape Town) -The shacks used to fly over the training base embarking on maritime patrols-something I will always remember.
I live only a few miles from Hamilton, Ontario, where the Canadian Avro Lancaster is kept. I often see & HEAR the Lancaster fly overhead, once buzzing my family at a Remembrance Day ceremony (my Dad was Lancaster mechanic during WWII).
It would be wonderful to see one of these Shackletons do a fly by...especially since I didn't even know of their existence before this time. Thanks again for an informative video.
We had our own Canadair Argus filling that role before the Aurora. The Argus was an amazing ASW aircraft.
We South Africans are grateful for this content!
Yes we are!🇿🇦
@Jake Roberts WELL this being South Africa, the Corona virus is saving more lives than it's taking. With all the liquor stores being closed, crime is down 200%. Only in the RSA. Oh the irony.
Yes and you can claim that you solved an ecological disaster by doing more ecological damage, sinking an oil tanker that will pollute the sea for 50 years!
@@bobmarshall3700 said by the usual poorly informed suspect, you underestimate just how vast the ocean is, the only reason oil is a problem is when its on the surface and can coat things, dispersed deep, its just food for bacteria. Its like how democrats in the us have no clue that almost 3 million die on a normal year when they cry about the virus.
@@churblefurbles well said , were the South Africans supposed to fetch the crude with buckets and take it to a disposal site?
I remember watching a Shackleton flying over the North Sea when I was a kid. A fisherman had fallen overboard and it had been sent to search for him. Unfortunately they never found him.
And yes it was very noisy. I was stood on the beach watching it flying around and though it was some distance away I could still hear it.
@Nimbus Nimbus "unfortunately they never found him".......
@Nimbus Nimbus Haha fair pley
*play
My Dad, as a flight engineer flew Lancasters, and Lincolns after WW2 ( then the B29) and said that they were the noisiest planes ever but he loved his experience.
So fast forward to the mid 70’s and as a pilot I was flying a Beechcraft Queen Air at about 1000 feet over the Moray Firth to Dounreay when a Shackleton formated on my left wing... very close.
I was so impressed and nostalgic, we flew for about 50 miles together.
The Queen air was a very noisy plane but the Shackleton could be heard very loudly in our plane, we waved goodbye as the cliffs appeared to the north.
That'd be something to have a formation made up of an Avro Lancaster and Shackleton flying overhead. Imagine the wonderful symphony of sound of the Rolls Royce Merlin (Lancaster) and Griffon (Shackleton) engines being heard overhead! Nice story about the "shack" and thanks for sharing!
Add an Avro York and an Avro Lincoln and you've have the complete set!
You wouldn't hear the Lancaster if it was in formation with a Shackleton.
How about adding the Lincoln as well
What about the Wyvern lol
One used to turn up at the Whitley Bay show every year and do low passes - mind buggeringly loud, but most awesome to witness!
Thanks for this one Mark, I was 10 years old growing up in Cape Town and remember this incident vividly. I and the rest of Cape Town also grew up with Shacks flying out of Ysterplaat AFB all through my youth. They were majestic and loud.
Great story. An old SA friend did his military service as groung crew for one of these planes. Not justifying apartheid in any way, but SA furnished valuable Intel to the west on Russian naval activity.
Sad to say that politics got in the way of the proper recognition of SAAF's contribution in the desert in WW2. I'm no supporter of apartheid, quite the opposite in fact, but the SA pilots made a great contribution in Hurricanes and Spitfires that were a bit worn out to say the least.
What a great video. That brings back memories because we used to live near RAF St Mawgan in the 1960s and Shackletons used to fly low over our house making an incredible noise. Residents didn’t like the noise but I used to love it as a teenager. The Shacks had 37 litre Rolls Royce Griffon V12 engines, a derivative of the famous 27 litre Merlins. Those bigger engines and the contra-rotating props are what gave the Shacks their distinctive sound. The Mark 3s had a tricycle undercarriage with the retractible radar dome at the rear of the aeroplane, I always thought they were better looking than the Mark 2s with the rear tail wheel and Radome in the nose. Several kids at my school had fathers who either flew in them or worked as ground crew.
Yes I Remember watching the Shackletonf flying low over Tretherras School In Newquay in The 60s
I wish an old friend of mine could see this He was a engineer on Shackleton in the 1950s and 1960s RIP Mitch I will always rem member you
Thanks for this wonderful episode Mark. I've read a lot of the comments questioning the methods used to dispose of the problem but no-one seems to realise that it was an entirely different era and the SAAF probably only followed the actions of the RAF during the Torrey Canyon disaster of 1967. It is clear that the South African government did wake up to the pollution dangers after the sinking of the Wafra, and since the closure of the Suez Canal (1967to 1975) meant more traffic and ever larger ships rounding the Cape; they funded 2 hugely powerful tugs and a fleet of anti-pollution vessels to counter such an occurrence. The tugs were named Wolraad Woltemade and John Ross; after two historical South African heroes.
And the John Ross is still protecting our coast today.
@@Davidkxf I think it has since been scrapped, unfortunately
Tanker: "I won't sink."
*Shackleton makes for noisy approach*
*Profuse sweating of the tanker*
You will always have at least one American friend watching. You are the only channel I subscribe to, for the consistently excellent content.
You should subscribe to DRAIN ADDICT from Sydney . He always has consistently excellent content .....
@@Rusty_Gold85 lol, I stay busy dealing with my own toilet.
It should also be noticed that natural oil leaking in the oceans is common. So, Mark said destruction to the “coastline” was avoided. Bravo!
My dad flew this in the 50’s in Scotland. As a boy he took us to the observation deck at Heathrow to watch planes taking off and landing. He was still with us when I got hired with the commuters in the USA but gone by the time I got to the majors. We never got to take our planned flight together but one day we will. RIP dad.
The Avro Shackelton only retired from South African Air Force in 1990. I live in Cape Town South Africa and Ysterplaat Airforce base have been their main base when they where operated. Thanks for your videos. Like your channel
Salute and respect for south African airforce
As an expat I will second that, but unfortunately, it is no longer a force to be reckoned with, thanks to incompetence and corruption.
Was given the chance to go up in a Shack in 1957 whilst on HMS Defender to have a go at A/S detection from an aircraft. Instead ended up tracking 2 Russian destroyers that had entered the Med. Our radio packed up so no one knew if we were still up there. Landed 8 hours later.
One of the old fellas who drinks in our local WMC used to be a shackleton pilot. Always gets emotional about them when he's had a few 👍
A friend of mine died when his Shackleton flew into the hills on the Western Isles in 1990. I remember the magnificent site and sound of them flying over when I lived in Lossiemouth.🎉
Excellent video thank you have a great day everyone.
Great aircraft! The sound of the Griffon engines is always awesome!!!! Served in the SAAF as Logistician many moons ago.. when it was still a functional force.
your video are a god send with this lockdown your voice is so relaxing thank you mark
thank god got loads of your videos keep safe
Nice to see this particular video. I was stationed at St. mawgen at the turn of the century as part of the Joint Maritime Force manning the undersea surveillance system (IUSS). Every day we came to work there sitting on it's haunches was the Avro Shackleton. Cornish aviation societies were always there on weekends attempting various restorations. Nice to see the level of enthusiasm.
Good to see the SAAF content! Loved those old birds... seeing them flying was special. Knew most of Pelican 16's crew... great guys!
Dankie dr. Felton. I recall the oil - tanker. On holiday to Struisbaai & L'Aghullas the rocks was all covert with the sticky staff. My brother, Nel, served his 2 yrs at SALM/ SAAF at Langebaanweg in mid 1980's. ( Langebaanweg Airforce Base is close to Saldanha baai/ bay.) After his time he worked at Atlas Vliegtuigkorporasie/ - Airplane Corporation. He said South Africa had a problem to get new parts for the planes. To make the part form new was to build a machine and very expensive. It was ("much") cheaper to import from England or France. But we can't import. To day he is in New Zealand. Never in his live (1960-2000+) did he ever thought in post 50-th birthday, he'll serve a different country...
"Was one of the most formidable and highly trained" being the operative word for the current SAAF.
That sadly goes for more countries.
Sadly, "was" being the most operative word in the sentence. They even started early... mere months into the "new dispensation"... by ditching one of the last flying Shacks in the Sahara desert, where it lies rotting to this day. SAAF museum declined seriously after that. Another sad loss was the Spitfire... personally, I believe lost to egotism.
@@ttggreen1 or South African Air Force?
@@ttggreen1 South African Air Force
@@ttggreen1 Or as some call it of late South African Air Farce. They even ran out of fuel one year, having to cancel all airshows and unnecessary flights without notice
Thank you for the mention of the Pima Air Museum, a world class aviation museum that spans all decades of flight! I've glanced at their Shackleton as I've driven by.
I love seeing the Shackleton out here in Tucson. Shes in good company.
I recall spending a few nights in a tent on a camp site overlooking RAF St Mawgan, back in the 1960s, and listening to Shacks doing practice 'Circuits and Bumps' over the tent. I could almost reach up and touch them! Tended to disturb the night sleep :grin:
I’ve seen the Shackleton at the Pima Museum in Tucson. It is magnificent.
there was a Shackleton abandoned at Nicosia Airport when I was stationed there with the UN in 1990
As a South African, I must say thanks for this video. Unfortunatly because this happened during apartheid and our government loves covering up anything good that happened back then that shows the apartheidsgovernment in a good light.
If the dumb morons in the South African Gov't had a simple thing like an ocean-going tug on immediate standby in one of the busiest sea lanes for oil tankers in the world - even subsidized by the mega-trillion dollar oil companies whose tankers use those sea lanes on a regular basis - this tanker would have probably been rescued before it hit the rocks in the first place, and this whole ugly oil mess could have been prevented.
What is the 'good' part here?
I think I need to sue Mark for pain and anguish. When he said "100 thousand rivets flying in close formation," I choked on my coffee! As for the Wafra, after suffering 7 missile hits and not sinking, it was a lowly tanker with the heart of a battleship. I can imagine it saying, "We are entering the digital age and I will start by giving you the middle digit of my starboard side!"
I live near Gatwick AM, so I've been on the Shackleton there. I sat in the cockpit and thought, "don't press anything, you may start the engines!". One of the men there who served on a Shackleton said that there is more electricity in my phone at full charge than the entire aircraft.
that's because the Shack turned all her 'power' into 'noise'.
As a kid in the early 60's i holidayed in Newquay Cornwall (UK) and used to see the Avro Shackleton's flying overhead regularly from their base at RAF St. Mawgan. They certainly were loud!
There's a Shackleton at Newark Air museum that u can go inside.
The museum is closed. You can't go inside until further notice.
Is that Newark, England, or Newark, New Jersey USA?
@@jasonwalker5679 UK
@@BrettonFerguson coronavirus? Not been in a couple of years.
Love that museum.
Thanks for this. Had two Shackletons at RAF Gan in the Maldives when I was stationed there in 1969/70. Have the Shack to thank for getting me off the Island for a short break in my Tour when I was deployed to RAF Changi
in Singapore for a two week familiarization course ....
These monsters used to occasionally fly over my house at low level when I was a kid. I can attest that they were chest rattlingly loud but that never stopped me from racing outside to watch.
Our family were housed at RAF St. Eval in Cornwall in 1956 -1964. When we first moved there the Shackletons flew over the roof of our house on one of the approaches to the runway. A short time later the operations at St. Eval were closed down and the airfield became a big playground for us kids. The Shackleton squadrons and supporting groups including my dad (Air Traffic Control) were moved to RAF St. Mawgan; now Newquay Airport. The Shakletons were still there when we moved to Malta in April 1964.
If y’all haven’t checked out the Pima air and space museum you HAVE TO it’s the best Air museum out there I’ve personally been there over 60 times
OK. What about the Museum of the Air Force in Dayton Ohio??
David Vance sadly no the the shakleton @ Pima isn’t airworthy 😭
Some mad giggles there when it wouldn't sink, and the 100,000 rivets flying in close formation :)
Awesome work Mark! Love seeing topics related to South Africa!
I lived near RAF Langar in Notts when these were still in service and my father used to take us up there in the 60's to watch them coming in and taking off as they changed rotas.
Picture the scene: 2020. Two retired South African Air Force fitters meet in a bar. After swapping personal histories, it becomes known that one guy is ex 35 Squadron (Shackeltons) and one is ex 28 Squadron (Buccaneers) . An awkward silence follows, and then the 35 Squadron guy says quietly :"SS Wafra" and nods sagely. The 28 Squadron guy slinks out of the bar in embarrassment. "Shaya amanzi!" the 35 Squadron guys says to himself and smiles thinly. (Zulu for "Strike at the water", 35 Squadron motto.)
This scenario could have happened, if it wasn't for the Battle of Cassinga, where the Buccaneer boys earned their self respect back again.
I had to google that.
An interesting battle in a war I knew nothing about.
I remember as a kid reading books about the Shackleton. A legendary aircraft
Yes, Communism is evil.
Send Jimmy Stewart to the desert to get the plane up and running.
"The flight of the Phoenix" what a great movie
Send Jimmy Saville's corpse to the oil tanker and use it for target practice.
I used to love seeing the Meteorological Shackleton flying in the mid 1980's when I was working as a gardener on a large estate near Stranraer on the West Coast of Scotland.
Beautiful old girl with very distinctive engine/propeller sound.
It used to fly over at least weekly and would turn over the estate and continue back carrying out weather surveys I believe.
Thanks for another great bit of un-remembered history and a forgotten war bird.
Peace
Charlie 🇬🇧
7:42. There Is footage of a run up of this planes engines. The back wash is so powerful the brick wall behind the plane is blowen down.
The last remaining running Shackleton gets ground started once a month for fans to come watch. Went just this Saturday. Engine sound is amazing even at 1/4 of full throttle.
For anyone who loves a great tale of courage and indomitable will, the Shackleton is named after Earnest Shackleton, whose Antarctic expedition turned into the most amazing story of human survival of all time. The two best books on it are written by the expedition's doctor and Shackleton himself, take your pick -- you won't be disappointed.
Yes you are quite right, the plane was named after my late grandfather Sir Ernest Henry Shackleton (1874-1922) the famous Antarctic explorer, by the designer of the Lancaster Roy Chadwick, his daughter Margaret was walking out with my father when they both young and were courting but they never got engaged or married to each other, Margaret married a man called Mr Dove, I had the honour in meeting Margaret Dove in the 80s we went to the Hendon Air Museum as both guess on the day that a Shackleton plane came to stay there as a permanent fixture, I don't know if it's still there or not, we both arrived in style I was driving my Grandfathers Motor Car, it's a 1912 Ford Model T., and I still have it today., I am James Shackleton the Grandson of Sir E H Shackleton & Director of J F Shackleton & Sons Funeral Director / Undertakers since 1703
@@jamesshackleton9525 Everyone should have REAL personal heroes, not comic book and movie heroes. I wish more young people understood that they don't need fictional heroes to look up to when true men and women of great achievements and character, past and present, exist. Your great grandfather is one of my personal heroes.
On my RAF Passing-out Parade at RAF Swinderby, the reviewing Officer was the Station Commander from Lossie and we had two Buccs & Shack for the fly-past. I still remember the drone of the Shack after the buccs had gone.
The sinking of a badly leaking oil tanker doesn't seem like an ecological crisis solved to me.
Me neither - i'm guessing dissipating the oil 100's of miles away in a remote area at the time was the better option than close to the coast. I think the oil in time would degrade.
@@Gloopular more that because the oil is so far underwater That the oil will gradually disperse thanks ot ocean currents. Its not crude oil thats dangerous, its large concentrations of it
The idea here wasn't to stop it from leaking completely. It was to keep the oil from washing up all over the South African coast, because coastlines are where oil spills actually do the most ecological damage.
@@connorclabaugh9962 Thanks Connor now I see things a bit differently .
@@connorclabaugh9962 give that man a cigar 😆
Amazing how these planes that are underrated can suddenly become heroes. Even aircraft you least expect can be very handy in times of need.
THIS IS THE BEST UA-cam CHANNEL EVER!!!
I used to work on Sepecat Jaguars at Lossiemouth back in the mid 80's. We shared our flight line with the Shacks of 8 Squadron and i used to love watching them flying around. One of my most vivid memories was when i was stood on top of a Jaguar when 8 squadron's C.O. was flying his last sortie in a Shack. It flew down our flightline at about 50 feet and when something that big flies so close over your head, it sticks in your memory. Happy days!
6:14 : Shackleton taking off.
Subtitles: [Music]
Indeed.
I remember this incident. I was in Grade 12 close to Cape Town. Thanks for reminding me
Everytime I hear the intro music I feel like Mark Felton is in his way to the ring in to kick some ass in WWE
I was recently at Pima Air and Space Museum admiring the Shackleton on display there. FWIW, that museum has a excellent display of Cold War era aircraft from the UK.
She's such a gorgeous aircraft, shame none are airworthy at the moment.
Tks for mentioning my home town. I was born in Ras Tanura in 1951.
MARK I LOVE YOU
Steady on!
Fascinating story . One issue I have though is the idea that sinking it relieves the environmental fall out . The oil is still causing ecological damage,,,,you just can’t see it . I saw the same mentality with the Horizon Adventure . They used dispersants which true ,,,made it go away,,,but it just sank to the bottom ....and then moved with the current . In the USA if you use dishwashing soap to make a fuel spill disappear the coast guard will hang you . If your BP though you get an atta’ boy ,🤨
I love your videos, every time one comes up I always have to click it no matter where I am.
Saw a Shackleton in Newark air museum. Met the pilot too. Nice guy
Britain: Look at our loud 4-engine monster with counter-rotating propellers.
Russia: Hold my vodka.
Spits out a ten jet engine flying ship
Laughs in bear.
@@soundslave And they're still laughing as it's still in service today.
Is it true that SOSUS could detect the Tu-95
Contra*
As a boy I used to watch these fly into RAF Lossiemouth along with the Buccaneers around 1987. They were both very old then!
Got to love British aircraft,these old bombers have a proud heritage.
While in the Navy with VP-22 at Sangley Point NAS in the Philippines I was permitted by the British ground crew to walk (and because of the wing) crawl through the aircraft parked there.
Thanks for the great video.
Interesting that some have tricycle gear, some are taildraggers.
Mk 1 and 2 were tail draggers, while the Mk 3 had a nose wheel. The Mk 3 also had a jet engine in the rear of each inboard nacelle to assist in take off.
I really don't understand how they did that. I would have thought it was such a fundamental part of the design that it couldn't be altered. Did they shift the main wheels back and/or extend the fuselage forwards to alter the balance?
@@caw25sha the 2 main gear wheels carry all of the weight in either configuration, the nose or tail wheel is just a prop to keep the ends off the ground ;-)
@@caw25sha Just the added weight of the nose gear and the supporting structure at the nose would have altered the balance
@@blueboats7530 Now you've got me imagining a Spitfire with a nosewheel...
I remember these aircraft so well whilst living in CAT. I remeber the WAFRA saga but always loved seeing the Shacletons flying over the Cape Penninsula
[aircraft flying away from massive mushroom cloud] Pilot: "We did it Patrick! We saaaaaved the village!"
My father was flight engineer on one of the Shackletons in SA. This brings back so many memories of my childhood.
The one in the desert reminds me of Flight of the Phoenix.
4 RR Griffons, 8 props, smooth as silk on take off which I experienced once in a RAF Shackleton. Quite a contrast to the rowdy radials of the Sunderlands which I was crew on.
What a big bomber
Another great story Mark
Great work on the research
Good job👍
it is unbelievable how many avro Shackleton videos have popped up in my recommended recently. even mark now!
How does sinking the tanker stop the oil from leaking?
I was wondering the same thing. Would the pressure keep the oil in the tanks or something? sounds weird!
It doesn't. But the intense currents down there and low temperatures will stretch, fold the oily fluid and break it up into droplets that end up suspended in a slurry, like mud. Then oxidation chemistry will finish the job.
yeah someone in the process of that didnt think the plan through
The aim wasn't to stop it leaking, it was too late to do that. The reason they wanted to sink it, was because if the ship stayed afloat and drifted back to shore it would cause an ecological disaster on the South African coast. Something they wouldn't be able to ignore and would cost a lot. Whereas this way you can just pretend for the most part it didn't happen and it costs a lot less.
My guess is it will have more time to disperse and possibly degrade in the water, or maybe putting it beyond the continental shelf helped with the oil not being brought to shore as fast.
Having served in the RAF 1961-1975, I often saw Shackletons flying about over the seas, at various Stations I was at (Cyprus for example), possibly practising their search and rescue capabilities, and were a reasonably common site.
But that was in the days of Lightning interceptors, Buccaneers, Hunters, Venoms, Canberras, Vulcans, (maybe Victors and Valiants...long time ago now), Harriers, and a delta winged fighter that I cannot remember the name of now.
I also saw some Meteors in a hanger and took (on the sly) some b&w pictures of them, and forget where now, but they seem to have been lost now over time and house moves.....
What a coincidence, I was just this morning watching Andrew Saint Pierre White’s documentary about the crash landing of one of these planes
yeh popped up in my lists last week too
thank you for this, As a SOuth African its nice to hear about things our air force did i havent heard about. remember the crash in the desert watched in the news at the time. was big news at the time.....
have you read 'North of the Red Line'?
@@jahnkaplank8626 no, havent even heard of it till now, thanks will order it. My collection of border war books is growing...:)
So the "Lady be good" was replaced by a Shack in the Sahara. Nice.
The loss of the "Lady" vastly improved our knowledge of desert survival probability, although in a very tragic manner.
No, she didn't replace her. She joined her!
@@johnemerson1363
No. Lady Be Good was recovered from the desert & is now on display in a museum ✈✈
@@scottmcintosh4397 She lied in a Tobruk museum in the open air alongside some wrecked 25 pounders and pak's. I had the chance to look around her in 2010. Underneath her paint was immaculate.
@@scottmcintosh4397 I didn't know that! Thank you for the update.
I for one don't not want to be a patron but Iv few I like but Mr.Fenton an old time radio ,your an education, and I thank you.