Isn't that kinda nice to see though? Obviously it's impossible to make everyone happy. But as long as they stay on top of everything with the updates, they should be able to get to a place of balance. Or at least have rotating metas more on par with each other much like any other BR, looter shooter title. The real question, is the end goal to have a balance between ALL classes, or are they going for more of a rock, paper, scissors style of class system?
@@gabriellessa7706 most of the people playing rogue were chasing the meta. They’ll switch to the second most OP class now. Most assume that’s ranger but at the same time most people don’t bother putting nearly as much effort into dodging ranger arrows as they do skele and gobo arrows.
yeah it was very well played holding down an angle with a ranged weapon, 4 traps on one entrance and with no counterplay to it xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
@@lodowykrol2489so you’re saying he was wrong to play to his class’s strengths in a 3v1 situation where the team of 3 is also cheating and watching his every move on stream? Bold choice.
@@lodowykrol2489 my dude they were 3v1, stream sniping so they knew where all the traps were, got a guy to succesfully flank and still lost, they just are shit
@@lodowykrol2489 no counterplay? the rogue jumped over the trap. those rogues just sucked at the game. the last one wouldve killed him if he wouldve just pushed through the molly instead of running for cover. what a dumby
@@lodowykrol2489 It's a 3v1 if they simply all push at the same time & DJ maybe only 1 will get trapped, Plus they had the stream up so they can see where the traps are. Or they can all bring 15 stacks of throwing knives
Every single time I use smart traps to cover a zone, I end up walking in them or my allies do. And I felt insulted you didn't, then you finally reminded us that it happens to the best of us :D
I can't even count how many times I've stepped in my own traps... You think you know where they are, you think you can handle your own stuff... But you can't.
Rogue is still playable but no longer has a dedicated niche. It's kinda just worse Bard atm in my humble opinion. Same effect range (not including the superior bard crossbow that doesn't need a perk) fast looting (bard song opens every chest and picks all locks in an aoe and doesn't need a perk) similar loadout (Bard can use falchion or Arming sword after Dagger nerf, rogue's are stuck to using rapier and we don't spawn with one) Bards are faster while playing speed song, have faster door interact, and above all else have team wide utility to heal, give spells, buff/debuff, and do a little magic damage. The only reason to pick rogue right now is double jump cheese, which addmitedly is very funny. In any other scenario, while Rogue is technically still a playable class, just play Bard lol. It fulfills the class fantasy without the added negative of getting 1 tapped by Grey Barbarians. Hell, even invisibility lasts longer even if it is counterintuitive to play a loud ass song first lol Rogue just needs a new identity. I quite like the swashbuckler theory, give em a buckler or parrying knife, more hp, and let them be like a dex fighter as opposed to the full plate strength fighter. I think that would satisfy everyone and give rogue a new home in the meta
As a rogue main myself I'm actually happy as fuck that they nursed them. They were way overpowered and any time I played a different class I would give one shotted out of ambush hiding and it would piss me off. It happened every single time I went to the goblin caves on anything but a rogue
as someone who doesn’t play rogue I agree with all the changes except for the dagger damage decrease (they will now take forever in PvE) and the hide decrease because they took over 50% of the duration of hide away which is crazy because the fact that rogues were hiding wasn’t the problem, that’s pretty much how you play the class- the problem was them coming out from hiding and being able to do 90% of your hp before you can register that you got hit
@@Foxkhine them being invis for a long time wouldnt be a problem if they didn’t do such high burst damage. If they popped out of invis and didn’t do half your hp in 1 hit then the long invis time wouldnt be a problem
As a rogue 1 trick that has played through the last 3 playtest I agree that these changes had to be made. I didn't realize how broken rogue was untill I saw your last video 😂. It's hard to see your main class get nerfed like it did but at the end of the day I feel like alot of rogue mains were living in ignorance because of the success they found with the class 😂.
I agree this is not your fault. You made good points and never advocated for nuking rogue in your last video. This is definitely a stopgap from Ironmace.
@@TheSpudHunter Yup. VFX artist for a game studio myself, the devs I watch usually go 'nuclear' and dial it up slowly cause it's a lot easier to do that then trying to do lots of marginal tweaks. Takes up much less time and feels more impactful for the community.
Why are we apologizing to these people or defending our stances on this issue? A large majority of people who were abusing the cookie cutter power of the Rogue meta are not even people who enjoy playing the game in any capacity. They only did it to troll and grief other people into basically quitting the game. Fuck them, they can wait until the data proves that their class is unplayable, and maybe then they can wait over 3-4 weeks for changes.
That quiver in your voice at 4:57 as you say chasing says it all. This is a man with severe PTSD. Thousand yard stare all day as soon as he gets off stream. Nightmares about being chased down by stream snipers every night. Get well soon, Spuddy! Keep fighting the good fight!
I think part of it was the insanely bad timing. Your rogue video came out and within 24 hours the rogue gets gutted. Now people with brain cells understand it takes time to code, and these changes were in the works for weeks prior. But to the average rogue enjoyer, the timing was to final straw. Spud called up the devs on his red phone, talked to SDF and got rogue nerfed. No other explanation.
Idk, Ranger definitely needs some nerfs, but since the Rogue nerf, they've been complaining as if Ranger is as much of a problem as Rogue was. It's a problem, but it's not on the same level at all. Your clip against the stream snipers showed that you had to plan out, use like 5 or 6 traps in smart ways so they couldn't be double jumped easily, actually hit your shots, then space them out with your spear when they did get in close. It took a ton of skill to handle those guys, and they had to misplay AND you had to play it super tight in order to win there. Rogues never had even had to try, but they could just 1 or 2 shot everyone.. Literally DPS checking Fighter with 50%+ PDR and winning.. Rogue mains need a reality check before they keep complaining.
ok chat, He survived the first hit. Lets see if he survives the second hit. First person to stream snipe him and kill him 10 times with a rogue gets 10,000 gold
Like you said. Lot's of ways that burst damage needs to be scaled back. I was talking with a buddy the other day and he suggested quick-shot be changed to the bow type, survival shooting 4 arrows, recurve 3 and long 2 that way they're scaled to be about the same damage across the board.
Rogues were stupid because they could camp behind a door and there wasn't much you could do. Rangers ARE stupid because they can camp an entire room since they can put on multiple traps and cover 2 to 3 doors at once and there's nothing you can do to enter that room unless the ranger fucks up
Rogue should be primarily a solo rat class with a lot of mobility and utility. A lot of their utility perks should be combined so they can lean into that a lot more. Combine creep and stealth, combine lockpick with something useful or make it baseline, etc. They should have a good combat build for 3s but it shouldnt revolve around stealth and burst. The fact that they can get the jump on people to start the fight should be enough. Don't need extra burst on top of that.
The deep and guttural satisfaction I got from 8:52 when you could tell he knew he didn't have it in him to win this fight. I don't even play this game but that shit was money.
The funny thing is, if they left the agility alone for the attack speed then poison builds would have been fine, and they feel more balanced to play against as well. (Poison stacks with added magic damage well enough). But with the agility nerf too it kinda killed them for awhile. Personally I think their gameplay style just needs a rework, the invisible rogue death bombs were only fun for the rogues themselves, but now they have very few tools for actually holding their own in a fight. With how squishy they are without high tier gear, they really needed the mobility and burst, but maybe there is some other skills they can add that will give us an alternate playstyle that is both fun for us rogue mains AND fun for people to play around? The invisible one hit rogue was NOT really something you can play around as other classes
Nerf bard into the sidewalk. Community: Deserved remove bards. Nerf rogue into the ground. Community: Awwwwwww poor rogues. We didn't want you this nerfed gosh darnit! Feelsweirdman...
People need to understand that this game is early access, by all means there'll be huge changes frequently exactly because we are playing the game, each of us differently, and they're watching and addressing accordingly. They can't make everyone happy, even themselves, at least yet, but they're trying, and we gotta respect that, and keep playing so they can keep making it better. People see nerfs and stuff negatively but on the contrary it's actually a positive thing cause it means they are working in every aspect of their product frequently, instead of just sitting on their asses.
I love playing a skillful melee fighter but it feels like my only option is rogue. I despise the invisibility on it, I want a to play a fast, nimble, skirmishing playstyle, and the rogue is really my only option. Barbs are too slow and clunky and fighter just feels milquetoast and too gear dependent for me to enjoy. I loved my time with warlock but he still needs some work done first. That leaves me with rogue. I just want to dash around with a rapier, accept that I can be killed fast, but have the ability to skirmish and harass my way to victory. I would love if poison and the movement abilities were buffed, backflip is a joke. I should lose if my positioning is bad or I mess up my spacing, I shouldn't be able to win a straight up fight against a spear/longsword. I want to be able to pluck away from a distance and be able to reposition quickly. Kind of a swashbuckler, high risk high reward.
Yeah I swore off playing until the rogues got nerfed. Glad to be able to play again. I died 4 games in a row to 2 taps out of invis when I was fully geared and buffed completely as bard and said screw that noise.
@LegendsAndFriends have you not watched the videos of rogues 2 tapping fully blue fighters? If they are on the other side of a door invis and you open it even when fully geared if they’re geared too you barely have time to react let alone get off swings.
Game is so much better without excessive camping 1-shotting, 2-shotting, 3-shotting rogues. THE ROGUE OPPRESSION HAS BEEN LIFTED! GLORIOUS DAYS HEAR YE HEAR YE!!!!!!!!
@TheSpudHunter My 3 year old son's favorite class was Rogue, but today he came to me crying and said an angry potato deleted his character from the game. I hope you're happy with yourself, you made a child cry on his birthday.
Wdym good nerf? They completely gutted the main gimmick behind a rogues kit. INVISIBILITY. Now they just added a shit ton of more bloat perks to the rogue just so it can *try to be viable
Good nerf as in the class was oppressive, like how wizard got nerfed hard multiple times, to sus out the power they should be at. I get feeling like it gutted the class, i main wizard, but its all to figure the balance out
After the nerf so many rogues keep saying "ambush hide wasn't the real problem" and then proceed to shit an essay about how people saying that classes like barbs getting one shot by rogues is fake news and how this or that class is the op one... Then you link them videos but they refuse to accept evidence... Lots of smooth brain rogues let's be honest, but that's not because all rogue players are smooth brain, it's because the majority of the playerbase plays rogue...
in DaD discord i replied to somebody about the duration change, "hide was 60 second man", and some people responded about the buff duration penalty, since they have low will and immediadly followed up with vitriolic flame how im a noob and a loser and if I even know how stats work. Absolute cretins taking any and every opportunity to insult eachother like it's a reddit forum makes me reconsider interacting with the community altogether. Shoutout to the fighter-channel, they've been the most chill and levelheaded. Love my fighter bros.
Actually, I was wrong and you are right. Can't wait for other classes to get a balance, and the burst slowing down, interesting fights and builds, I played rogue with different builds and it's hella fun! Have fun guys
Every class needs to be balanced down, especially with additional training coming at some point. Easy rogue life needed this as does fighter, ranger, and barbarian. The biggest problem I see is gear disparity.
The only issue with Triple shot is it negates every weakness with the Longbow. I propose that they remove the triple shot, so it opens up diversity. For example, with the Quick Fire perk (50% attackspeed for 8 seconds) you shoot a Survival bow crazy fast. Or you can run Xbow builds, or whatever. Longbow SHOULD have slownfire speed, long reload, and low max ammo. Rapid Fire (triple shot) just ignores all those weaknesses
While I think the nerfs were too much, I think the devs were like "We need less people on Rogues asap!", so they just went with stuff that would hit them hard. This gets a few things to happen, 1) Fewer people will play Rogue, 2) Internal Feedback will come quick, 3) Player Feedback will come quick. Yes, the devs will catch flak for doing this, but from a balancing standpoint, if they want quick and effective information, that is one way to do it. Going into the Official Discord after the nerf was known about... Oh my... That place was just pure toxicity. Can't even state your opinion without a bunch of non-rogues and/or rogues mains coming out of the woodwork to just fly off the handle at you.
"Look Spuddy, I going to make you an offer that you can refuse . Give a break to Rogues players , I warned you . Revenge is a dish that tastes best when served cold. " The Rogues Mafia
The first thing I thought when I saw the patch notes was "hehe this is spuds fault 🙃" Real talk tho all they needed to do was remove ambush perk. Instead, IM said drop your pants and bend over.
I wasn't convinced by your last video, I put the problem down to other classes having no defence against ambushes, but that clip of a Cleric getting 1 shot with a dagger is just ridiculous. I said that Rogue's should be able to kill quickly but I didn't know that was even possible. I still think the way to go is to ease off on the rogue nerfs and to give other classes better tools to deal with them because this could create a meta that constantly shifts. If you think about it, there aren't very many perks that are designed to counter other playstyles. I think that would be a good addition to the game.
I think these massive nerfs are a bit of a hint as to the "sweeping balance changes" we will see on Tuesday I expect TTK will go up considerably across the board
be cool if you didnt die instantly to a barb if he gets 2 hits in. 2 hits with even a green wep kills all but plate cleric and fighter, against a class that basically has sprint AND a slow. and even against those 2, its just 3 instead of 2. throw crush on there and you can't even block it. if they get in, you are 100% dead no counterplay. not a fan of it. without even getting into if they have their cleric and wizard girlfriends plugged directly into their anal cavity enabling it even further
As a bard main knowing they said bard would be COMPLETELY reworked and if you go to the blog post on the website it says something along the lines of "these changes will effect almost every class weapon and skill" so pretty sure a big bard nerf/buff is coming again
@@captaintoenail8232 thanks detective, i think the fact that they said bard is being reworked pretty much denoted that but, your slow input on the situation is greatly appreciated lol.
Saw brad quackson get outran by a fighter with sprint today. He had legendary gear and was holstering his rapier. But good thing for +5 resourcefulness so we can open doors and chests a bit quicker :)
@@manfallingoffaladder was the fighter also geared? is it suppose be impossible to catch a rogue if you build for speed that would be dumb and unfair especially while using sprint. That is when skill comes into it
The big reason I’m celebrating is because being one shot in the level 1-14 goblin caves feels wrong (especially after someone is camping the iron gate and they one shot me as I’m literally heading up the stairs) but yeah, the changes should be dialed back a bit
@LegendsAndFriends Bro this was the first week I was playing the game and on a new character (because I wanted to try out using a cleric instead of a fighter)
I support direct class buffs and nerfs but I do not like them nerfing weapons and rolls between wipes. It makes the "legacy" items OP and worth fortunes, I'd rather them tune the weapons after wipe.
I dont think we should be looking at the most sauced rogue in the game and balance based off of that. Also, Jay and Repoze are two of the best players in the world. I dont think the average rogue player is on the same level as those two or near as geared.
The only part about Rogue that was the problem was what you said. It's insane they could sit invis for 60 seconds and then pop out and one-shot you if your playing a squishy class. Other than getting rid of the 50% damage increase ability and the nerf to invis time the nerfs were not necessary. However I'm a wizard main so I'm going to thoroughly enjoy rogues being dick in the meantime.
"Jay and Repoze was actually kicking some ass post nerf" shows a clip where it took 6 kris dagger hits with rupture and poison weapon to kill a ranger. Seems good
That fight was so fucking hype. You fucking dismantled them so expertly and strategically. Well played, brotha. You make me respect rangers, which are my second most hated class lol
I think the best way to nerf rogue is to have their ambush strike be incredibly slow at the cost of dealing mad damage. Like... activating it makes your next attack have a slow windup so you really have to sneak up on someone to use it.
Its not the first attack. It's the third overhead stab on the Castillion. If you have the ambush damage perk and weakpoint/thrust you can almost do true damage up to 200+. Try on the dummies yourself with purple Castiglione and strength/weapon damage attributes. Activate weakpoint, go hide, swing twice in the air and the third hit in combo make it land on the head and it one shots everything
NGL a blue recurve with quick shot and triple shot stacked is kinda nasty Spud. Especially since triple stack doesn't require ammo to be loaded. You can dish out a stupid amount of arrows in a short amount of time. My love started from using it on dual wield fighter just to be more mobile. Then I realized I could abuse the triple shot mechanic to bait people who pushed the reload. Still hate ranger for mobs though 😂
As a rogue, I don’t blame you for this Spudbud. We definitely needed a nerf lol, but I think it’s comical how big it was. It’s all for the game testing so it’s fine, and Tuesday we’ll get to see what IM is up to so it’s all worth it! Love ya spud! Also an obligatory FUCK RANGERS.
how many fighters are in top 100 kills , YES the one you complained by bringing a 20k gold set into a game with full of grey geared people and said it was broken , any class with light gear can infinitely hit fighter and run back because of how heavy armor slows you down alot and no crossbow and speed buff isnt enough even as a rogue with rapier i killed more 85% phys reduction fighters than you could imagine they simply cannot go for a reload on crossbow because i will simply push and kill them , and they cant catch me i wait out their swing and time my rapier pin point to head , this is against a rogue , also i could just simply put a hand crossbow perk and poison him at the same time too , and go for slashes if he went for a crossbow reload , wizard 100% wins i dont even need to explain why its just a 200 movespeed turtle getting hit by everything , warlock fucks up fighter too also (talking about what spud complained heavy armor 85% phys reduction) , now with the new armor penetration on crossbow etc , and the skill of archer , and the projectile reduction going down from 40% total from heavy gears to around 9% , making fighters take literally true damage now , you just gave a shitty example against shitty players , with my 85% phys reduction set , a ranger (actually geared not grey geared like you tested with) dealt 70% of my hp with 1 bolt , and how can i catch them with fighter? i cant , maybe with bard and wizard hasting the fuck out of me. still i am sad of how limited your brain is in comprehending things in bigger and detailed levels.
Its almost like this game is early access and we are helping the dev make the game balanced.
A balanced take
@@TheSpudHunter When the body is imbalanced, so are the decisions.
Forget double jump, a single jump CC locks these fat fucks.
Isn't that kinda nice to see though? Obviously it's impossible to make everyone happy. But as long as they stay on top of everything with the updates, they should be able to get to a place of balance. Or at least have rotating metas more on par with each other much like any other BR, looter shooter title. The real question, is the end goal to have a balance between ALL classes, or are they going for more of a rock, paper, scissors style of class system?
how dare you make a logical take. When we asked for EA we meant a finished fully balanced game /s
@@TheHuskinator most people rejected him, they hated the gamer when he spoke the truth.
An apology from the lead dev, very sincere too.
I appreciate you Spuddy
You made me like this game even more with your latest update. Thanks lead developer!
For shure let rogue suffer the same time we suffered with their OPness
@@gabriellessa7706 most of the people playing rogue were chasing the meta. They’ll switch to the second most OP class now. Most assume that’s ranger but at the same time most people don’t bother putting nearly as much effort into dodging ranger arrows as they do skele and gobo arrows.
The way you handled the stream snipping sutiation, GOSH... you rock mate..! Very well played!!
yeah it was very well played holding down an angle with a ranged weapon, 4 traps on one entrance and with no counterplay to it xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
@@lodowykrol2489so you’re saying he was wrong to play to his class’s strengths in a 3v1 situation where the team of 3 is also cheating and watching his every move on stream? Bold choice.
@@lodowykrol2489 my dude they were 3v1, stream sniping so they knew where all the traps were, got a guy to succesfully flank and still lost, they just are shit
@@lodowykrol2489 no counterplay? the rogue jumped over the trap. those rogues just sucked at the game. the last one wouldve killed him if he wouldve just pushed through the molly instead of running for cover. what a dumby
@@lodowykrol2489 It's a 3v1 if they simply all push at the same time & DJ maybe only 1 will get trapped, Plus they had the stream up so they can see where the traps are.
Or they can all bring 15 stacks of throwing knives
That primal scream of “COME ON” was fucking beautiful
Every single time I use smart traps to cover a zone, I end up walking in them or my allies do.
And I felt insulted you didn't, then you finally reminded us that it happens to the best of us :D
I can't even count how many times I've stepped in my own traps... You think you know where they are, you think you can handle your own stuff...
But you can't.
I think the boomerang rule appplies to traps... Whenever you use it, it's coming back for you@@knighttemplaroftentacult7123
Rogue is still playable but no longer has a dedicated niche. It's kinda just worse Bard atm in my humble opinion.
Same effect range (not including the superior bard crossbow that doesn't need a perk)
fast looting (bard song opens every chest and picks all locks in an aoe and doesn't need a perk)
similar loadout (Bard can use falchion or Arming sword after Dagger nerf, rogue's are stuck to using rapier and we don't spawn with one)
Bards are faster while playing speed song, have faster door interact, and above all else have team wide utility to heal, give spells, buff/debuff, and do a little magic damage.
The only reason to pick rogue right now is double jump cheese, which addmitedly is very funny. In any other scenario, while Rogue is technically still a playable class, just play Bard lol. It fulfills the class fantasy without the added negative of getting 1 tapped by Grey Barbarians. Hell, even invisibility lasts longer even if it is counterintuitive to play a loud ass song first lol
Rogue just needs a new identity. I quite like the swashbuckler theory, give em a buckler or parrying knife, more hp, and let them be like a dex fighter as opposed to the full plate strength fighter. I think that would satisfy everyone and give rogue a new home in the meta
why is everyone now fully chad geared in every normal round I play?
THE THREE PIECE MCNUGGETS DELIVERED HOT AND FRESH TO YOUR CAR. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS WAIT FOR IT
As a rogue main myself I'm actually happy as fuck that they nursed them. They were way overpowered and any time I played a different class I would give one shotted out of ambush hiding and it would piss me off. It happened every single time I went to the goblin caves on anything but a rogue
as someone who doesn’t play rogue I agree with all the changes except for the dagger damage decrease (they will now take forever in PvE) and the hide decrease because they took over 50% of the duration of hide away which is crazy because the fact that rogues were hiding wasn’t the problem, that’s pretty much how you play the class- the problem was them coming out from hiding and being able to do 90% of your hp before you can register that you got hit
I could be a fighter in random blues with 45% damage reduction and get three shot by a rouge with weak point standard gear
Yeah no, they needed the invisibilty nerf, a hole ass minute to become a fucking landmine? Yeah no
more like 40 seconds with their low wis but yeah in general. Daggers should have been left alone tho @@Foxkhine
@@Foxkhine them being invis for a long time wouldnt be a problem if they didn’t do such high burst damage. If they popped out of invis and didn’t do half your hp in 1 hit then the long invis time wouldnt be a problem
As a rogue 1 trick that has played through the last 3 playtest I agree that these changes had to be made. I didn't realize how broken rogue was untill I saw your last video 😂. It's hard to see your main class get nerfed like it did but at the end of the day I feel like alot of rogue mains were living in ignorance because of the success they found with the class 😂.
how can you play a class for so long and have no clue how to build it optimally?
@@poppetx so true
I agree this is not your fault. You made good points and never advocated for nuking rogue in your last video. This is definitely a stopgap from Ironmace.
They'll dial it back next major patch. It's what class based games and their developers usually do. Nerf into the ground and then lift up slowly.
@@TheSpudHunter Yup. VFX artist for a game studio myself, the devs I watch usually go 'nuclear' and dial it up slowly cause it's a lot easier to do that then trying to do lots of marginal tweaks. Takes up much less time and feels more impactful for the community.
“Rogues are still strong”
*1v3s rogues taking only 1 hit*
Celebration indeed. Agree 100% - Make Rogue great again, just in different ways.
Why are we apologizing to these people or defending our stances on this issue? A large majority of people who were abusing the cookie cutter power of the Rogue meta are not even people who enjoy playing the game in any capacity. They only did it to troll and grief other people into basically quitting the game. Fuck them, they can wait until the data proves that their class is unplayable, and maybe then they can wait over 3-4 weeks for changes.
That quiver in your voice at 4:57 as you say chasing says it all. This is a man with severe PTSD. Thousand yard stare all day as soon as he gets off stream. Nightmares about being chased down by stream snipers every night. Get well soon, Spuddy! Keep fighting the good fight!
You're not getting cancelled by rogues, you're getting cancelled by people who wanna play the game on easy mode, lol.
You're a good content creator, smash it bro.
Hey Cheers
[ Greed is Good ] < Check this game, Clone of Dark And Darker (?????)
What is happening?@@TheSpudHunter
Rogue tears are the best. People complaining were the 100% braindead rogues that would just wait for 50seconds to only w+mouse1.
Seriously, if anything is going to kill this game it's when the majority of the players only want to use whatever is most OP at that moment.
Let me tell you before even watching this... YOU SAVED THIS GAME MANY TIMES BROTHER CHEERS!!!
When that last Rogue heard "COME ON !!!!" over VoIP, that's the moment he knew he f*cked up
If you guys want to see some bad takes, go look at the comments under spud's post on reddit
I think part of it was the insanely bad timing. Your rogue video came out and within 24 hours the rogue gets gutted. Now people with brain cells understand it takes time to code, and these changes were in the works for weeks prior. But to the average rogue enjoyer, the timing was to final straw. Spud called up the devs on his red phone, talked to SDF and got rogue nerfed. No other explanation.
sounds like you just have a grudge against rogue
As soon as I saw the changes in the patch notes I wanted to see Spuddy's reaction so badly lmao
This rogue slayer clip might be better than the 1st viral 3v1. Banger vid :)
Here, take my forgotten cleric tears
Idk, Ranger definitely needs some nerfs, but since the Rogue nerf, they've been complaining as if Ranger is as much of a problem as Rogue was. It's a problem, but it's not on the same level at all. Your clip against the stream snipers showed that you had to plan out, use like 5 or 6 traps in smart ways so they couldn't be double jumped easily, actually hit your shots, then space them out with your spear when they did get in close. It took a ton of skill to handle those guys, and they had to misplay AND you had to play it super tight in order to win there. Rogues never had even had to try, but they could just 1 or 2 shot everyone.. Literally DPS checking Fighter with 50%+ PDR and winning.. Rogue mains need a reality check before they keep complaining.
peak gamer performance and then you pump out the video within the next 12 hours. this is why you are our streamer!
ok chat, He survived the first hit. Lets see if he survives the second hit.
First person to stream snipe him and kill him 10 times with a rogue gets 10,000 gold
Like you said. Lot's of ways that burst damage needs to be scaled back. I was talking with a buddy the other day and he suggested quick-shot be changed to the bow type, survival shooting 4 arrows, recurve 3 and long 2 that way they're scaled to be about the same damage across the board.
Thats actually a really good idea...
Damn thats actually decent a idea
i used to hate rangers with passion but rogue players with their 15yo personalities take the cake oficialy
Rogues were stupid because they could camp behind a door and there wasn't much you could do. Rangers ARE stupid because they can camp an entire room since they can put on multiple traps and cover 2 to 3 doors at once and there's nothing you can do to enter that room unless the ranger fucks up
Rogue should be primarily a solo rat class with a lot of mobility and utility. A lot of their utility perks should be combined so they can lean into that a lot more. Combine creep and stealth, combine lockpick with something useful or make it baseline, etc. They should have a good combat build for 3s but it shouldnt revolve around stealth and burst. The fact that they can get the jump on people to start the fight should be enough. Don't need extra burst on top of that.
nerf the damage thats fine i say but do not touch the stealth duration, thats just not right... i mean, its utility...
The deep and guttural satisfaction I got from 8:52 when you could tell he knew he didn't have it in him to win this fight. I don't even play this game but that shit was money.
ranger being bad at mele combat is the biggest joke ever (can literally equip high range mele weapons and has healing preinstalled in the kit)
The funny thing is, if they left the agility alone for the attack speed then poison builds would have been fine, and they feel more balanced to play against as well. (Poison stacks with added magic damage well enough). But with the agility nerf too it kinda killed them for awhile. Personally I think their gameplay style just needs a rework, the invisible rogue death bombs were only fun for the rogues themselves, but now they have very few tools for actually holding their own in a fight.
With how squishy they are without high tier gear, they really needed the mobility and burst, but maybe there is some other skills they can add that will give us an alternate playstyle that is both fun for us rogue mains AND fun for people to play around? The invisible one hit rogue was NOT really something you can play around as other classes
Its funny cuz when u think of what kind of player in dark and darker would stream snipe someone, you think of rogues immediately 🤣
As someone who gets sniped. It's literally the sniper class XD
@@TheSpudHunter well, ranger could do just as well lol it's just that steam snipers are poosees and need invis 🤣
Nerf bard into the sidewalk. Community: Deserved remove bards. Nerf rogue into the ground. Community: Awwwwwww poor rogues. We didn't want you this nerfed gosh darnit! Feelsweirdman...
People need to understand that this game is early access, by all means there'll be huge changes frequently exactly because we are playing the game, each of us differently, and they're watching and addressing accordingly. They can't make everyone happy, even themselves, at least yet, but they're trying, and we gotta respect that, and keep playing so they can keep making it better. People see nerfs and stuff negatively but on the contrary it's actually a positive thing cause it means they are working in every aspect of their product frequently, instead of just sitting on their asses.
removing the 50%damage from the skill was a loss, and I'm a poison short sword rogue... now I'll be a crossbow double-jump rogue.
I love playing a skillful melee fighter but it feels like my only option is rogue. I despise the invisibility on it, I want a to play a fast, nimble, skirmishing playstyle, and the rogue is really my only option. Barbs are too slow and clunky and fighter just feels milquetoast and too gear dependent for me to enjoy. I loved my time with warlock but he still needs some work done first. That leaves me with rogue. I just want to dash around with a rapier, accept that I can be killed fast, but have the ability to skirmish and harass my way to victory. I would love if poison and the movement abilities were buffed, backflip is a joke. I should lose if my positioning is bad or I mess up my spacing, I shouldn't be able to win a straight up fight against a spear/longsword. I want to be able to pluck away from a distance and be able to reposition quickly. Kind of a swashbuckler, high risk high reward.
Targeted hit from the rogue mafia 🤣🤣
Yeah I swore off playing until the rogues got nerfed. Glad to be able to play again. I died 4 games in a row to 2 taps out of invis when I was fully geared and buffed completely as bard and said screw that noise.
@LegendsAndFriends have you not watched the videos of rogues 2 tapping fully blue fighters? If they are on the other side of a door invis and you open it even when fully geared if they’re geared too you barely have time to react let alone get off swings.
I'm about to start playing again because of this nerf
I would wait for the wipe, it will introduce buffs and potentially buffs for rogue hence the reason for the major nerf to rogue.
I can’t say I’m disappointed, but DAMN rogues got shafted
I spit in the general direction of the foolish and pathetic rogue mafia
Game is so much better without excessive camping 1-shotting, 2-shotting, 3-shotting rogues. THE ROGUE OPPRESSION HAS BEEN LIFTED! GLORIOUS DAYS HEAR YE HEAR YE!!!!!!!!
Lmao classes like barb / fighter / ranger still 1 - 2 shot most squishy classes. How do people only see this as a rouge problem lmaooo
@@Lavaevocoolrogue is fast and can go invisible. You can run from barb and fighter. And dodge rangers arrows.
The best way to play Rogue is like Repoze with insane gear and just W key left click. Huge skill. Invis not necessary.
8:50 the intensity
@TheSpudHunter My 3 year old son's favorite class was Rogue, but today he came to me crying and said an angry potato deleted his character from the game. I hope you're happy with yourself, you made a child cry on his birthday.
Rouge had the most perks and the least varity of playstyles before this, good nerf.
Wdym good nerf? They completely gutted the main gimmick behind a rogues kit. INVISIBILITY. Now they just added a shit ton of more bloat perks to the rogue just so it can *try to be viable
Good nerf as in the class was oppressive, like how wizard got nerfed hard multiple times, to sus out the power they should be at. I get feeling like it gutted the class, i main wizard, but its all to figure the balance out
After the nerf so many rogues keep saying "ambush hide wasn't the real problem" and then proceed to shit an essay about how people saying that classes like barbs getting one shot by rogues is fake news and how this or that class is the op one... Then you link them videos but they refuse to accept evidence...
Lots of smooth brain rogues let's be honest, but that's not because all rogue players are smooth brain, it's because the majority of the playerbase plays rogue...
in DaD discord i replied to somebody about the duration change, "hide was 60 second man", and some people responded about the buff duration penalty, since they have low will and immediadly followed up with vitriolic flame how im a noob and a loser and if I even know how stats work.
Absolute cretins taking any and every opportunity to insult eachother like it's a reddit forum makes me reconsider interacting with the community altogether.
Shoutout to the fighter-channel, they've been the most chill and levelheaded. Love my fighter bros.
Too hard on weakpoint and daggers but nerfs were needed
Weakpoint worked too well with ambush so it had to go
spud, youre great at these vids, script, edits, everything. keep up the good werk bro
Cheers
i'm glad rogue got nerfed to the ground, it was genuinely so incredibly toxic.
Clerics :(
Actually, I was wrong and you are right. Can't wait for other classes to get a balance, and the burst slowing down, interesting fights and builds, I played rogue with different builds and it's hella fun! Have fun guys
For me it's not about being right, just want the game to be fun for all.
Every class needs to be balanced down, especially with additional training coming at some point. Easy rogue life needed this as does fighter, ranger, and barbarian. The biggest problem I see is gear disparity.
The only issue with Triple shot is it negates every weakness with the Longbow. I propose that they remove the triple shot, so it opens up diversity.
For example, with the Quick Fire perk (50% attackspeed for 8 seconds) you shoot a Survival bow crazy fast.
Or you can run Xbow builds, or whatever.
Longbow SHOULD have slownfire speed, long reload, and low max ammo. Rapid Fire (triple shot) just ignores all those weaknesses
Cutthroat actually goes crazy against any buffs. Owns bard, owns cleric, owns barbarian. Its actually crazy.
Repoze was doing good after changes? I wonder if all his pre nerf bis had anything to do with it
While I think the nerfs were too much, I think the devs were like "We need less people on Rogues asap!", so they just went with stuff that would hit them hard. This gets a few things to happen, 1) Fewer people will play Rogue, 2) Internal Feedback will come quick, 3) Player Feedback will come quick.
Yes, the devs will catch flak for doing this, but from a balancing standpoint, if they want quick and effective information, that is one way to do it.
Going into the Official Discord after the nerf was known about... Oh my... That place was just pure toxicity. Can't even state your opinion without a bunch of non-rogues and/or rogues mains coming out of the woodwork to just fly off the handle at you.
I will say in the Barbarian private Discord & The barbarian chat WE WERE SINGING, DRINKING, AND BUTTHEADS SMILING when that update came out.
Get Spud into the RPS (rogue protection program) right now!
My first reaction to the nerfs was "This is exactly what SpudHunter didn't want."
Rogues get nerfed
Wizard mains: “First time?”
People complaining about ranger have never played Ranger, not even top 0.1% ranger players can hit all three rapid shots
Mage need only 2 arrows. Some times 1 is enought.
"Look Spuddy, I going to make you an offer that you can refuse . Give a break to Rogues players , I warned you . Revenge is a dish that tastes best when served cold. " The Rogues Mafia
The first thing I thought when I saw the patch notes was "hehe this is spuds fault 🙃"
Real talk tho all they needed to do was remove ambush perk. Instead, IM said drop your pants and bend over.
I wasn't convinced by your last video, I put the problem down to other classes having no defence against ambushes, but that clip of a Cleric getting 1 shot with a dagger is just ridiculous. I said that Rogue's should be able to kill quickly but I didn't know that was even possible.
I still think the way to go is to ease off on the rogue nerfs and to give other classes better tools to deal with them because this could create a meta that constantly shifts. If you think about it, there aren't very many perks that are designed to counter other playstyles. I think that would be a good addition to the game.
I think these massive nerfs are a bit of a hint as to the "sweeping balance changes" we will see on Tuesday
I expect TTK will go up considerably across the board
be cool if you didnt die instantly to a barb if he gets 2 hits in. 2 hits with even a green wep kills all but plate cleric and fighter, against a class that basically has sprint AND a slow. and even against those 2, its just 3 instead of 2. throw crush on there and you can't even block it. if they get in, you are 100% dead no counterplay. not a fan of it.
without even getting into if they have their cleric and wizard girlfriends plugged directly into their anal cavity enabling it even further
God I hope so. Drawn out, highly tactical fights are the best part of this game imo
@@lukatroopa4291 bingo, the aspects of the game that have 0 counterplay, or instakill, gotta go.
As a bard main knowing they said bard would be COMPLETELY reworked and if you go to the blog post on the website it says something along the lines of "these changes will effect almost every class weapon and skill" so pretty sure a big bard nerf/buff is coming again
@@captaintoenail8232 thanks detective, i think the fact that they said bard is being reworked pretty much denoted that but, your slow input on the situation is greatly appreciated lol.
Watched another guy complain about the rogues speed saying its dead. they being a bit dramatic actually have to fight now
Saw brad quackson get outran by a fighter with sprint today. He had legendary gear and was holstering his rapier. But good thing for +5 resourcefulness so we can open doors and chests a bit quicker :)
@@manfallingoffaladder was the fighter also geared? is it suppose be impossible to catch a rogue if you build for speed that would be dumb and unfair especially while using sprint. That is when skill comes into it
But bro the fact that you can bring 12 traps is dumb. Bow nerf need across the board imo.
Well said Spuddy. I think a lot of people who saw the last video missed the closing marks entirely.
The big reason I’m celebrating is because being one shot in the level 1-14 goblin caves feels wrong (especially after someone is camping the iron gate and they one shot me as I’m literally heading up the stairs) but yeah, the changes should be dialed back a bit
@LegendsAndFriends Bro this was the first week I was playing the game and on a new character (because I wanted to try out using a cleric instead of a fighter)
That rogue's face at 4:55 looked pretty rapier-y
tbh imo they nerfed him into the ground like that rather that make nerf meaningless
I support direct class buffs and nerfs but I do not like them nerfing weapons and rolls between wipes. It makes the "legacy" items OP and worth fortunes, I'd rather them tune the weapons after wipe.
Big brain rouges jumping around in a hallway in front of a ranger 🧠🧠🧠
I dont think we should be looking at the most sauced rogue in the game and balance based off of that. Also, Jay and Repoze are two of the best players in the world. I dont think the average rogue player is on the same level as those two or near as geared.
Imagine being shit on by a solo ranger as a 3 man rouge squad even after stream sniping. How bad can you be. 😂
The only part about Rogue that was the problem was what you said. It's insane they could sit invis for 60 seconds and then pop out and one-shot you if your playing a squishy class. Other than getting rid of the 50% damage increase ability and the nerf to invis time the nerfs were not necessary. However I'm a wizard main so I'm going to thoroughly enjoy rogues being dick in the meantime.
"Jay and Repoze was actually kicking some ass post nerf" shows a clip where it took 6 kris dagger hits with rupture and poison weapon to kill a ranger. Seems good
MY PERSONAL IDENTITY IS BUILT AROUND PLAYING ROGUE THEREFOR YOU HAVE PERSONALLY ATTACKED ME BY SUGGESTING NERFS, HAVE AT YOU KNAVE!
fuck g the way you cleaned those rogues up was UNREAL
Thank you lead game dev designed Spud for making this game playable!
That fight was so fucking hype. You fucking dismantled them so expertly and strategically. Well played, brotha. You make me respect rangers, which are my second most hated class lol
Cheers
I think the best way to nerf rogue is to have their ambush strike be incredibly slow at the cost of dealing mad damage. Like... activating it makes your next attack have a slow windup so you really have to sneak up on someone to use it.
Its not the first attack. It's the third overhead stab on the Castillion. If you have the ambush damage perk and weakpoint/thrust you can almost do true damage up to 200+. Try on the dummies yourself with purple Castiglione and strength/weapon damage attributes. Activate weakpoint, go hide, swing twice in the air and the third hit in combo make it land on the head and it one shots everything
Rogue Mafia got reversed hit by the Ranger Gank Squad. Good representation Spudster 😎
NGL a blue recurve with quick shot and triple shot stacked is kinda nasty Spud. Especially since triple stack doesn't require ammo to be loaded. You can dish out a stupid amount of arrows in a short amount of time. My love started from using it on dual wield fighter just to be more mobile. Then I realized I could abuse the triple shot mechanic to bait people who pushed the reload. Still hate ranger for mobs though 😂
Are we ignoring the fact that for a rogue to truly be in one shot range prior to nerfs they needed to become a pinata worth 5k+ gold?
As a rogue, I don’t blame you for this Spudbud. We definitely needed a nerf lol, but I think it’s comical how big it was. It’s all for the game testing so it’s fine, and Tuesday we’ll get to see what IM is up to so it’s all worth it!
Love ya spud!
Also an obligatory FUCK RANGERS.
Where can I get the mixtape? 😃
From Darthsilvereyes in dark and darker- IF you had a hit from the rogue mafia you would be gone.
"the class isnt dead" I START WITH A FUCKIN 13 DAMAGE RONDEL DAGGER THAT DOES SAME DAMAGE AS TORCH
That was such an amazing fight
Cheers
On the behalf of literally everyone: Thank you for shitting on those rogues at the end of
how many fighters are in top 100 kills , YES the one you complained by bringing a 20k gold set into a game with full of grey geared people and said it was broken , any class with light gear can infinitely hit fighter and run back because of how heavy armor slows you down alot and no crossbow and speed buff isnt enough even as a rogue with rapier i killed more 85% phys reduction fighters than you could imagine they simply cannot go for a reload on crossbow because i will simply push and kill them , and they cant catch me i wait out their swing and time my rapier pin point to head , this is against a rogue , also i could just simply put a hand crossbow perk and poison him at the same time too , and go for slashes if he went for a crossbow reload , wizard 100% wins i dont even need to explain why its just a 200 movespeed turtle getting hit by everything , warlock fucks up fighter too also (talking about what spud complained heavy armor 85% phys reduction) , now with the new armor penetration on crossbow etc , and the skill of archer , and the projectile reduction going down from 40% total from heavy gears to around 9% , making fighters take literally true damage now , you just gave a shitty example against shitty players , with my 85% phys reduction set , a ranger (actually geared not grey geared like you tested with) dealt 70% of my hp with 1 bolt , and how can i catch them with fighter? i cant , maybe with bard and wizard hasting the fuck out of me. still i am sad of how limited your brain is in comprehending things in bigger and detailed levels.
The fact that you got targeted by a rogue three stack AND they sucked complete BOOTY hole is the best thing ever.
Rogue SHOULD be the highest skill requirement character