K4OGO Vertical No Radial Portable HF Antenna
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- Опубліковано 21 жов 2024
- First build of the K4OGO “Coastal 20” Antenna. An original design and experiment I put together for a Vertical No Radial Portable HF Antenna. #hamradioantenna #hamradio #verticalantenna
Thanks Walt. With so many teeny tiny parts in radios today it seems that antennas are still the one thing we can experiment with. You're doing great.
Thanks Rusty!
@@COASTALWAVESWIRES but 5 degs of take of angle would work that why the ham sticks as a dipole will work
...& ur the Antenna Man, the nemesis of antenna experimenters!👍🇺🇸
I think I just have a sickness or obsession LOL
@@COASTALWAVESWIRES No, ur a ham, ur required to be that way!😂🇺🇸
As always, a fun way to learn about building a working antenna! Thanks Walt! Can't wait for warmer weather here to try some things out!
Thanks Carol!!!
I learn so much from these little workshops that you produce. Thanks Walt!
Thanks for the kind words Jason!
As far as the contests go , I frequently head for 17 ,15 , and 12 , and 10 when the contests are on ! Don't feel that I am having a go at those hams , because I am not ! It is another flavour of our wonderful hobby !
Roger that!
Top effort Walt!! Fabulous. Bug me whenever my friend 73
Thanks Tim! Oh don’t worry I will hahaha
Another enjoyable fun video 73 from Texas KV5P
Thanks Mike! 73 from Poland
Excellent idea and a great design! Love the no-radial concept! -KC4PPS
Thanks! 73, Walt K4OGO
I like it - thanks for this. I would rather mess with 3 guy ropes than 8 (or even 4) counterpoises on the ground, at least for portable ops. I am going to try this! I have been using MFJ mast and fishing poles and although a quarter wave vertical can net some contacts, I want to try "easy-up" solutions for portable use, and I like your ideas. Also I do like the various physical arrangements available with an EFHW antenna. Still going to do more with that! All the best Walt, and also to others experimenting with antennas! Dave WA4NID
Thank you! 73, Walt
Very interesting design, thanks for the great video. This antenna actually is close to a Rybakov antenna you covered in another video, with a short elevated radial, isn't it?
In this other video you used a 4:1 unun. Wondering if it would have given better SWR results...
And by the way, I really dislike contest week-ends. No fun in these chain QSOs. Not my conception of ham radio. It's frustrating when you don't get a chance to exchange some info about gear, antennas and such.
Contesters would drive me absolutely nuts.
Yes I’ve had enough lol
This is Walt’s K4OGO UA-cam channel
This is another great idea Walt. I live on the Cumbrian coast on the Solway Firth and with a 10 meter tide, sometimes on the beach I can be 4 miles from open water. So this idea will be a good one to try. I wish I could find a UK supplier of that natty little 1:1 choke you have there. All the best, Pete
Thanks! I need another one of those baluns, mine is getting loose and worn. Unfortunately he hasn’t had any in stock in a long time
@@COASTALWAVESWIRES I was watching a 2 year old video by Tim where he was making a 2m antenna and he made a choke using 10 turns of coax on a small piece of conduit. Would that work on 10 and 20m , or am I just a hopeless chancer? All the best, Pete
@@Crusty_Camper yes that would work as a choke!
@@COASTALWAVESWIRES Great ! I'm getting so many good ideas from you two and now you have saved me £35. Thanks Walt and Tim, Pete
Great stuff Walt, contest can be a blessing as a good test sometimes
Yes they can, especially when I’m in North America and not next to Russia during a Russian contest hahaha. Thanks for watching my friend!
Nice work Walt! I was just down in VAB this weekend. We’ll catch up eventually! 73 de K3JRZ
Thanks! Yes we will, 73 de K4OGO
I'm stitting here in Upstate NY with an outside temp of 26F and a friendce NW cold wind blowing. I only wish I could be experimenting with the verticals that you descrdibe so well. Hopefully, next month. Spring begins Monday here which is only a bad joke.....safe travesl and thanks again, as alwasy for your great vids. lc
Awesome, thank you my friend!
Hi Walt, CQ contest nope I won't go there honest 😁🤣, I sort of use a variation of a theme not that different to what your using, I've got a local park a few minutes away from home, I go there if I've got some spare time to test different things out or just to chill out for an hour or two, I often use a copper rod a ground spike with a 3/8 mount 17 foot telescopic whipp with a 9 to 1 Unon maybe a single radial common mode choke or take the Unon out of line and add a loading coil either the MFJ-63 or slide winder both work well with 17 foot telescopic whipps for something that's really quick and easy to setup it performs really well, thanks for the video all the best Adam G7CRQ.
Thanks for sharing Adam! Yes I’m tired of the contests. 73 my friend!
What happened to the old coastal waves and wires ident Walt :) I liked that over the morse thing.
Ok I’ll go back to it! Thanks for the input my friend
Ok so the more I look at this the more I really like it. I liked it before, but I thought I wanted a beam but they're ungodly expensive, and difficult to deal with.
My goal is for a single antenna to hit 20, 17, 15, 12, and 10 meters. I'm looking to hit targeted contacts, so that's why I was looking at beams (south florida to eastern Arizona being one goal). That's also why 17, and 12 are very important to me - there's no contesting there.
Ideally, I'd like to keep all bands roughly around 3:1 or less, 10 leaves a LITTLE to be desired, but - I have a hamstick dipole for that too. Mines going to be more of a permanent-ish install.
I REALLY want to see updates on this one as it's improved! It's SO inexpensive to make, and low profile it's hard to justify a beam.
I'm using an N9SAB EFRW and like it very much. I have one of his OCFD aerials ordered.
Amazing. Makes a lot of sense to have an antenna for 20 and 10 meters, as these seem to be where real DX seems to happen, no? Looking forward to seeing your next videos on this antenna!
Thanks for watching Levy!
Hey Walt, just seeing this video. Do you have an update on this upon your return? I would like to see the changes made and outcomes on your modeling effort.
Thanks
Wayne
Hi Wayne, I’ve done a couple since. Here’s the latest:
ua-cam.com/video/7qkOzQTQZWQ/v-deo.htmlsi=AGKgyPUF60eQl8qj
Way to go. I like this.
Thanks! 73
Interesting! You're really onto something!
~ airheadzradioadventures
Thanks for watching! 73
Love the design and ingenuity Walt. Does the feed line need to be mounted horizontally like you did or was that for convenience?
Thanks James! To be honest I’m not sure yet, I’m thinking it will be ok to at least get it angled away about 45 degrees. I’m going to experiment more and see.
Did you ever try to have the coax just go straight down instead of 90 degree to the antenna? Does it work or interfere with the shorter element? Would be even faster deployment for any POTA type setting.
Also, what is the ratio between long and short element (e.g. 30/70 like a standard OCF)?
Cheers, K4TMO
I have not tried it that way. I really didn't ratio it, it was more of an attempt to stay on non-resonant "random wire" lengths.
10:20 that spacing between calls… also the operator went to the bathroom and forgot the radio calling 😂
Next weekend is the WPX SSB, if you open the sink faucets there will be DX. I like contests, but this amount of contests we have today is actually bad. People learned that most hams will only be on the air for contests so they are creating too many contests trying to get hams on the air.
I have almost the same problem you have. People are so curious that sometimes I’m in the middle of the snow, up to my knees, in a gigantic park where no one goes in the winter for any reason. Then suddenly someone decides that it’s fun to walk on high snow just to see what I’m doing. Then they trip on the wires…. Now I’m deploying my antennas on top of fences, with no counterpoises (the fence is the counterpoise). So far, no one walked on top of the fence… yet.
73
Hahaha I feel your pain. I’m actually looking forward to next weekend. 73 my friend!
Safe travels back…
Thanks Ken!
Listening to those contesters was amazing! Do you have measurements for using a telescopic pole for 20m to 10m? TNX.
Hi David, try this:
20M - 16.4’
17M - 12.9’
15M - 11’
12M - 9.38’
10M - 8.25’
My buddy in Florida couldn’t replicate your good swr results. 10m was 5:1. 12-40 was not bad. Better when took the 1:1 choke out.
Interesting, thanks for sharing
For the lower section if ya add a bit more wire with a clip to a tent peg ya might get 20 better but havin the 9:1 and the choke in 1 box would make it easier for ya
I’ll look into that
Because of illness, but hot spring day, so used my balcony (with windows) as a portable position to test antennas (DL1DN and DIFONA verticals on 20m) for SWL only.
Hi Walt made your antenna today however I did not have a 1:1 balun like NSAB. I have an ordinary balun 1:1 that is the SO 239 socket and a terminal on each side. Not sure if I can utilize that or not. You might be able to tell if I can or not. 73 Richard
I’m sure it will work great. It’s all about experimenting, give it a try!
Hi Walt. I have good news for. I have found that I had soldered 1 wire onto a wrong connection. Pulled everything apart and with antenna on the floor in my messy shack I am receiving S3 from the USA. Is that good ? I reckon it is and change of rx when I touch the connector. Have not tried it outside however I think I am on the winning side.
Interresting design. I tried your antenna data in Eznec (now freeware) and looked at the impedances on the bands, they are on all bands way off to the 450 ohms of the 1:9 UnUn. So all your results (and losses) depend on the coax cable length. Example: your antenna shows on 20m a R35 -j1296 and you transform that by a 1:9 down into an impedance of R9.83 - j212 Fed this into a 8m long RG-58 coax (as an example), we will find at the end of the coax R6.58 - j60 This low impedance can be matched with the tuner for a good SWR on the G90 side into 50 ohms. Further simulation with tools of DL1JWD and AC6LA shows - around 70% of your power is lost due to reflection in your coax. The tuner can not compensate the reflection losses in the coax cable - even if former one is called 'antenna tuner'. ;-) But the saying goes: 'any antenna is better than NO antenna'
Interesting model results, I’m curious which band was worse case and which was best. My real world results don’t seem to completely agree with this when running the antenna analysis tools in the rig. I’ve built it now with both a long and short coax and didn’t get that great of a loss in any band. Yes there is loss for sure as this antenna is absolutely a compromise but nothing in the range of 70%. I’m seeing the greatest loss at 36% on one band.
@@COASTALWAVESWIRES the losses in the cable up to the feed point of the antenna can be calculated - but they are very difficult to measure. Because you would need to do that at the feed point. How did you find out ?
@@WolfgangKMeister did you include the choke at the feed point in your model?
@@COASTALWAVESWIRES will send you more details with email
wonder what the difference would be between the OCF diopole, and a true EFHW? OH! Where can someone find the small compact 1:1 current unun that you have?
That little 1:1 is built by N9SAB and sold on eBay. Here’s the link: www.ebay.com/itm/164358440127?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=TIbkpe2XS0m&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=IVyKb51XQj2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
On a 9:1 Unun how is the second wire attached? Does it go on the earth connection?
Yes the short lower wire is to (-) ground side, upper wire to (+)
Walt, I think I heard you on 17m band about 2 days ago. 5-9!
Yes I've been hunting and answering calls on 17, it was probably me. thanks for the report!
I have a question, if I use my DX Commander Expedition Mast and my PackTenna EFHW antenna will that work the same as you described in this video??? KN6STX
It will work great but it’s much different than this.
I have another problem and hope you you can assist me. When I connect everything up I did notice that when I touched the PL-259 plug the receive can up as though I have an earthing problem. Do I require an earth?
That’s interesting and no I don’t think it’s an earthing problem. It almost sounds like common mode current in your coax. Are you getting this at the feed point, after the choke balun or at the radio?
@@COASTALWAVESWIRES I am using a 1:1 balun as the choke which is 140-43 and the ferrite core in the 9:1 is a 240-52. I was going to use a 240-43 in the 9:1 but its 3MHz to 20MHz. The 240-52 is 1 -50MHz. Have you a better ferrite to use?
@@RichardOSBORNE-z8p wow, I’m stumped on this one
Very cool.
The holder is called a sand screw
as always, really interesting & fun to learn more abt ur antenna ideas! 🇺🇸 WA4ELW 😃
Thank you! 73 my friend!
@mikenikolich1569
0 seconds ago
Great video, 007! Ham radio is a magical hobby, isn’t it? I just worked IK4POI from a park in Naperville, Illinois. I was using a speaker stand-mounted MFJ vertical running 30 watts USB, and he was running 600 watts into a yagi. Both of us were 5-7! Keep us posted about this antenna.
Thank you! That’s a great contact!
This is Walt’s UA-cam channel
...ur the nemesis, the rival of antenna experimenters worldwide 🌎 😃 🇺🇸 (just please, please, don't ever start using the metric system to explain ur antenna ideas...I'll need an interpreter😂!) WA4ELW 😃
Haha don’t worry I’m an old school American engineer
Yes, u ARE 007😂! Great job, Mr. Bond, James Bond!😂🇺🇸
Blahahaha 😂😂😂
Mr Bobd... Walt Bond de K4OGO.. 😅😂
Walt Bond. 007 003 😎
Russian DX contest 😞 12m (24.9MHz) is not allowed for contests. 😞
Lol,007
Hahahahaha