Okay, so here's the deal. 1. The comparison video deserves all praise for the work in collating it. 2. It definitely shows that the new cars are rather fast -- which is a very good thing. Now... as to whether it proves they are faster than the former WRC cars, I don't think it does. a) the conditions of the road may not be sufficiently comparable (although, we can kind of see that they seem similar), b) a test is a test -- you don't drive a test like a normal stage. You can have fresh and optimally warmed tires, you can have the optimum amount of petrol, you can have the full electric charge (which might not be the case if that is not the first stage of a loop), etc. Also, in a test session, you have consecutive goes over a short section of a stage -- you often get it fully memorized, including minuscule details which let you scrape of the last tenths of a second. c) a vehicle's radar-measured speed is not a great measure of its pace on a stage as a whole: especially when comparing cars built to two very different specifications. The hybrid car may well be set to capitalise on the faster stretches of road, and their speed there may be balanced by the need to harvest energy (rather than brake super efficiently) in the slower bits. Also, we know for a fact that the aero on the Rally1 cars will be lesser than on the WRC's of the last generation, so it's only reasonable to assume that the WRC's top speed was compromised (for the benefit of being able to corner on the fast stuff without slowing down too much), and that the cars with less downforce will potentially reach higher top speeds (which would have to be reduced more before fast corners). Sorry for the long comment.
Hello Barsorrro thanks, but this video shows that the 2022 speeds are much higher than the old WRC+ for various reasons; the 2022 cars have covered a few kilometers on this road and the drivers do not know them yet. The tests are done precisely to find different set ups, it is easy that in the various steps, the set ups are not the correct ones. In the race I chose one of the best times of the special. In the race the pace is certainly more intense, the tires warmer, the driver's concentration is only to set the best time instead of checking the reactions of the car that he would have during a test. The conditions of the road surface were identical except for the WRC + 2019 in the section RADAR 4 and RADAR 7 a surface with icy sections
@@rivierarallynet Yes, you have a point there. It's difficult to judge the commitment level of a driver while testing and while driving in an actual rally. You're obviously right in saying that the scratch time isn't a priority during a test. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that some of the test runs are carefully timed, because at the of the day it is only so much about the improvement in the car setup that you can tell from how the driver feels about it -- it is often in rally stages that drivers are surprised with their exceptionally good/bad time results, since in their perception they've had a good run. Also, you will admit that driving the same short stretch of road over and over again, a driver will naturally become quicker and his commitment on the fast corners will be greater. But I'm not adamant about this point. I actually think that what I mentioned in point c) is more important. A car which presents a higher top speed in a certain (fast) straight section might not be quicker at all. And I'd like to reiterate one point, which may seem not that intuitively obvious: a car with more aero will corner much faster (especially on fast corners), but in the fast bits in between corners it will be notably slower than a car with less aero. Downforce = drag = lower top speed.
@@rivierarallynet Budy even tyres is not the same what tallking abaut driver's weight whitc increase a average speed, you shuold take all neuvile video and comparing only neuvile who was driving hyundai for a long time, but not random driver. the speed is only in some place 5 km/h faster so to put highter presure in tyre can increase that speed easily.
Oh no! You uploaded facts for the people that said WRC is dead cause of the hybrid lmao, I bet they gonna say this is fake or made up, amazing work with the video doe.
Incredible work put into this video. I did not expect hybrid cars being so fast in comparison. The unknown factor will be the utilization of electric power
I think the Hybrid cars will clock faster speeds vs. the 2017-spec cars, but I don't think there's any way that they will compete for times over an entire stage with the 2017 cars; they just don't have the aero to keep up in the faster corners and the electronic centre differential to help out in the slower corners. I think they are already quite spectacular, but for different reasons. A major plus though is that they sound great. I think the speeds they will achieve in very fast, straighter sections will shock people, but that lack of aero will be the deciding factor. That's why the FIA has already decided that 2017 cars may be used by privateers for WRC events, but that the the power has to be dialed down from 380HP to 350HP. They wouldn't do that if they weren't concerned that the 2017 cars in their original trim would upstage these new Hybrid cars. All of this being said, the 2017-2021 era is now over. It was a great era, but now we have something new to look forward to. I say embrace it and let the racing commence. I think it's gonna be exciting.
Guys, different rallies are better for cars with more horsepower than others. Tarmac with a lot of straights and then hairpins is basicly the perfect road for the new cars. Fast or slippery bits of corsica or spain could be worse, Finland or Estonia could be good and Portugal, Sardegnia or Greece (maybe + rain) could give them trouble again. All depends on how they get the power down and how they turn, but here in this test both things were absolutly no problem so its logical that they are faster.
Hmmm, l'outil de mesure, les conditions de route, les pneus et l'environnement ne sont pas identiques. Les embarquées WRC+ ne sont pas aussi précises/justes que le radar. En essais, si vous ne prenez pas la mesure lors des 2-3 premiers runs, cela devient moins "rally" réalistique. Mais le jeu est interessant, ca donne une tendance ;).
bonsoir Thomas je peux t assurre que le radar est just en rapport a WRC , je dejà compare , et le condition de la route est presque identique sauf que pour 2 section a defavorable pour la WRC+ 2019 , pour le RADAR 4 et 7
I think the electric motors generally have better start (like 0-100) so better cornering exit speed, so the comments saying that only top speed in flat out straights are better than wrc+ may be false, thats why they call it hybrid boost, electric motors have faster rpm's therefore faster acceleration. At the other hand the side intercoolers reduce the aero.. idk
The conditions during race 2019 are lot worst than 2022 test. There's no way 2022 spec be faster than a 2021 wrc car. And we will see it soon. Even if Monte is not the best place to see that. Best waiting for the first gravel /termac round.
I'm curious what those speeds would be 20 years ago, when I watched old videos, cars was pretty lazy in gaining speed back then, or in numbers: Peugeot 206 WRC 2002 Power to weight ratio 0.24 bhp / kg Ford Puma WRC 2022 Power to weight ratio 0.4 bhp / kg which is huge 40% difference.
ciao difficile dirlo , La differenza importante sarà nei tratti sterrati dove secondo me le WRC+ anno 2021 , saranno piu veloci sicuramente , sopratutto dove ci saranno meno rettilinei e quindi la potenza dell'elettrico sarà meno efficace . Comunque secondo me queste Rally1 sono più performanti delle WRC+ del primo rallye di Monte Carlo 2017 . saranno meno spettacolari delle WRC+ dell'ultimo periodo (2021) sicuramente , sarà comunque un anno 2022 con tante novità e con tanti pretendenti al titolo
@@rivierarallynet the new cars will be slower in case of stage times. But yes they are really fast out of corners like this test run in monte. But wait to finland, they will be out of electric juice half in the stage and have to drive with that ekstra battery weight and simpler diff/suspension setup than the old cars. Here the new cars will be slower. Thats my guess, will have to wait and see.
ciao difficile dirlo , La differenza importante sarà nei tratti sterrati dove secondo me le WRC+ anno 2021 , saranno piu veloci sicuramente , sopratutto dove ci saranno meno rettilinei e quindi la potenza dell'elettrico sarà meno efficace . Comunque secondo me queste Rally1 sono più performanti delle WRC+ del primo rallye di Monte Carlo 2017 . saranno meno spettacolari delle WRC+ dell'ultimo periodo (2021) sicuramente , sarà comunque un anno 2022 con tante novità e con tanti pretendenti al titolo
speriamo nell affidabilità delle vetture ....quest anno molto difficile per la sola assistenza la sera ....durante la fine del primo giro di prova nessuna assistenza prevista
2022 cars would be faster - at least in straight lines - than 2021 simply because weight/power rate is better. 2021: Minimal weight 1350kg/380bhp = 3.55 2022: Say electric system is adding 100kg and 134bhp, 1450kg/514bhp = 2.82 Also the electricity additional torque way better than traditional engine torque, say max torque at 0rpm. Now the electric additional power management complexity would lead to lack of this additional power in some circumstances degrading the weight/power rate. Also physics laws are physics laws, in corners, less weight is better, those 2022 WRC's would be slower in some corners (TBC). High temperature would potentially degrade the electricity power, we know electrical cars can suffer from high temp, Monte not in question but other rallyes can lead to such issues. This being said, we can assume the WRC 2022 will still be very fast and spectacular. I'm more concerned about the crashes, high current electricity + battery + big crash does not fit together, hope there will be no drama this year.
Good work, but for me the hybrids are not faster than the 2021 WRCs. As they do not have a central differential they are slower in the curves, they are heavier because they have batteries and also they do not have a good suspension development. The only moment that they can be fast is when they activate the hybrid system, but that will happen in some moments of the section. For something to the 2021 WRCs that compete in 2022 they reduce the engine power.
I think over time the teams will start to get used to the new rules and develop technology to make them faster. This is new technology after all, and if they're isn't an agenda to slow them down, they will improve I believe....
Well everybody always wishes for group b to come back. And while I think the best thing about the 80s was the completely free development in regions like aerodynamics, less downforce and more power should be quite the right way for most people?
@@FeddeVega The new regs might be the true group B. Considerable more power with less suspension travel and downforce. The 2017 were fast, but also very stable through to the aero. I expect more driver errors with the Rally1 cars. But let's see.
Even if this isnt serious, its a valid opinion against racing. Which is why these cars run on E-fuel and electricity. And yet they sound even better than the plus cars.
Okay, so here's the deal.
1. The comparison video deserves all praise for the work in collating it.
2. It definitely shows that the new cars are rather fast -- which is a very good thing.
Now... as to whether it proves they are faster than the former WRC cars, I don't think it does.
a) the conditions of the road may not be sufficiently comparable (although, we can kind of see that they seem similar),
b) a test is a test -- you don't drive a test like a normal stage. You can have fresh and optimally warmed tires, you can have the optimum amount of petrol, you can have the full electric charge (which might not be the case if that is not the first stage of a loop), etc. Also, in a test session, you have consecutive goes over a short section of a stage -- you often get it fully memorized, including minuscule details which let you scrape of the last tenths of a second.
c) a vehicle's radar-measured speed is not a great measure of its pace on a stage as a whole: especially when comparing cars built to two very different specifications. The hybrid car may well be set to capitalise on the faster stretches of road, and their speed there may be balanced by the need to harvest energy (rather than brake super efficiently) in the slower bits. Also, we know for a fact that the aero on the Rally1 cars will be lesser than on the WRC's of the last generation, so it's only reasonable to assume that the WRC's top speed was compromised (for the benefit of being able to corner on the fast stuff without slowing down too much), and that the cars with less downforce will potentially reach higher top speeds (which would have to be reduced more before fast corners).
Sorry for the long comment.
Just wanted to write what you wrote in 1. a) and b).
Now I have just to like your comment. Thank you.
Hello Barsorrro thanks, but this video shows that the 2022 speeds are much higher than the old WRC+ for various reasons; the 2022 cars have covered a few kilometers on this road and the drivers do not know them yet. The tests are done precisely to find different set ups, it is easy that in the various steps, the set ups are not the correct ones.
In the race I chose one of the best times of the special. In the race the pace is certainly more intense, the tires warmer, the driver's concentration is only to set the best time instead of checking the reactions of the car that he would have during a test. The conditions of the road surface were identical except for the WRC + 2019 in the section RADAR 4 and RADAR 7 a surface with icy sections
Well, monte is just a few days away, let's wait and see the times they make
@@rivierarallynet Yes, you have a point there. It's difficult to judge the commitment level of a driver while testing and while driving in an actual rally. You're obviously right in saying that the scratch time isn't a priority during a test. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that some of the test runs are carefully timed, because at the of the day it is only so much about the improvement in the car setup that you can tell from how the driver feels about it -- it is often in rally stages that drivers are surprised with their exceptionally good/bad time results, since in their perception they've had a good run. Also, you will admit that driving the same short stretch of road over and over again, a driver will naturally become quicker and his commitment on the fast corners will be greater.
But I'm not adamant about this point. I actually think that what I mentioned in point c) is more important. A car which presents a higher top speed in a certain (fast) straight section might not be quicker at all. And I'd like to reiterate one point, which may seem not that intuitively obvious: a car with more aero will corner much faster (especially on fast corners), but in the fast bits in between corners it will be notably slower than a car with less aero. Downforce = drag = lower top speed.
@@rivierarallynet Budy even tyres is not the same what tallking abaut driver's weight whitc increase a average speed, you shuold take all neuvile video and comparing only neuvile who was driving hyundai for a long time, but not random driver. the speed is only in some place 5 km/h faster so to put highter presure in tyre can increase that speed easily.
It's amazing the progress the 3 teams have made with the '22 cars in the last 6 months. Can't wait for Monte
yes that's right, in my opinion we will see a great world championship open to at least 4 drivers
Looks like 2022 Rally 1 are not slow. Great comparison video. 👍
thank you very much, yes for now it proves that
Oh no! You uploaded facts for the people that said WRC is dead cause of the hybrid lmao, I bet they gonna say this is fake or made up, amazing work with the video doe.
As you can see already they are saying that the 17-21 cars are faster lmao
thanks !
splendida idea e ottima realizzazione!
grazie Tante !!!!!!
Bon vidéo! 😉👍
thanks
毎年、どれくらい変わってるのかわからなかったが、ここまで速度が違うんですね。素晴らしい動画でした
Incredible work put into this video. I did not expect hybrid cars being so fast in comparison. The unknown factor will be the utilization of electric power
I think the Hybrid cars will clock faster speeds vs. the 2017-spec cars, but I don't think there's any way that they will compete for times over an entire stage with the 2017 cars; they just don't have the aero to keep up in the faster corners and the electronic centre differential to help out in the slower corners. I think they are already quite spectacular, but for different reasons. A major plus though is that they sound great. I think the speeds they will achieve in very fast, straighter sections will shock people, but that lack of aero will be the deciding factor. That's why the FIA has already decided that 2017 cars may be used by privateers for WRC events, but that the the power has to be dialed down from 380HP to 350HP. They wouldn't do that if they weren't concerned that the 2017 cars in their original trim would upstage these new Hybrid cars.
All of this being said, the 2017-2021 era is now over. It was a great era, but now we have something new to look forward to. I say embrace it and let the racing commence. I think it's gonna be exciting.
Guys, different rallies are better for cars with more horsepower than others. Tarmac with a lot of straights and then hairpins is basicly the perfect road for the new cars. Fast or slippery bits of corsica or spain could be worse, Finland or Estonia could be good and Portugal, Sardegnia or Greece (maybe + rain) could give them trouble again. All depends on how they get the power down and how they turn, but here in this test both things were absolutly no problem so its logical that they are faster.
hello I think so too, correct thinking
Hmmm, l'outil de mesure, les conditions de route, les pneus et l'environnement ne sont pas identiques. Les embarquées WRC+ ne sont pas aussi précises/justes que le radar. En essais, si vous ne prenez pas la mesure lors des 2-3 premiers runs, cela devient moins "rally" réalistique.
Mais le jeu est interessant, ca donne une tendance ;).
bonsoir Thomas je peux t assurre que le radar est just en rapport a WRC , je dejà compare , et le condition de la route est presque identique sauf que pour 2 section a defavorable pour la WRC+ 2019 , pour le RADAR 4 et 7
@@rivierarallynet Ok, merci. Savez-vous si la rallye 1 avait le boost déclenché ou pas lors de la mesure?
Buenísimo vídeo 👏👏
thanks
Great video comparison!!!
Very Very Gooood!!!!!
thanks Riccardo !!!!
Le nuove rally1 vanno forti come le wrc plus?
Currazo guapo!! Cada vez más finos los wrc 👏🔝
hello Nanito thanks
EXCELLENT video
I think the electric motors generally have better start (like 0-100) so better cornering exit speed, so the comments saying that only top speed in flat out straights are better than wrc+ may be false, thats why they call it hybrid boost, electric motors have faster rpm's therefore faster acceleration. At the other hand the side intercoolers reduce the aero.. idk
The conditions during race 2019 are lot worst than 2022 test. There's no way 2022 spec be faster than a 2021 wrc car. And we will see it soon. Even if Monte is not the best place to see that. Best waiting for the first gravel /termac round.
I'm curious what those speeds would be 20 years ago, when I watched old videos, cars was pretty lazy in gaining speed back then, or in numbers:
Peugeot 206 WRC 2002
Power to weight ratio 0.24 bhp / kg
Ford Puma WRC 2022
Power to weight ratio 0.4 bhp / kg
which is huge 40% difference.
Ho una domanda per rivierarally, le nuove rally1 vanno forti come le wrc plus?
ciao difficile dirlo , La differenza importante sarà nei tratti sterrati dove secondo me le WRC+ anno 2021 , saranno piu veloci sicuramente , sopratutto dove ci saranno meno rettilinei e quindi la potenza dell'elettrico sarà meno efficace . Comunque secondo me queste Rally1 sono più performanti delle WRC+ del primo rallye di Monte Carlo 2017 . saranno meno spettacolari delle WRC+ dell'ultimo periodo (2021) sicuramente , sarà comunque un anno 2022 con tante novità e con tanti pretendenti al titolo
hhybride is faster in acceleration in straight but wrc is faster in corner
hi Jordan , the speeds detected even in short stretches, says the opposite
@@rivierarallynet on fast tarmac not really big difference but on slow corner yes and because of new regulation they will slower than wrc
@@rivierarallynet the new cars will be slower in case of stage times. But yes they are really fast out of corners like this test run in monte. But wait to finland, they will be out of electric juice half in the stage and have to drive with that ekstra battery weight and simpler diff/suspension setup than the old cars. Here the new cars will be slower. Thats my guess, will have to wait and see.
Le nuove rally1 vanno forti come la wrc plus?
ciao difficile dirlo , La differenza importante sarà nei tratti sterrati dove secondo me le WRC+ anno 2021 , saranno piu veloci sicuramente , sopratutto dove ci saranno meno rettilinei e quindi la potenza dell'elettrico sarà meno efficace . Comunque secondo me queste Rally1 sono più performanti delle WRC+ del primo rallye di Monte Carlo 2017 . saranno meno spettacolari delle WRC+ dell'ultimo periodo (2021) sicuramente , sarà comunque un anno 2022 con tante novità e con tanti pretendenti al titolo
speriamo nell affidabilità delle vetture ....quest anno molto difficile per la sola assistenza la sera ....durante la fine del primo giro di prova nessuna assistenza prevista
@4:05 some one needs to check that radar 10!
the pilot Solberg had just picked up the car; second test of the year
2022 cars would be faster - at least in straight lines - than 2021 simply because weight/power rate is better.
2021: Minimal weight 1350kg/380bhp = 3.55
2022: Say electric system is adding 100kg and 134bhp, 1450kg/514bhp = 2.82
Also the electricity additional torque way better than traditional engine torque, say max torque at 0rpm.
Now the electric additional power management complexity would lead to lack of this additional power in some circumstances degrading the weight/power rate.
Also physics laws are physics laws, in corners, less weight is better, those 2022 WRC's would be slower in some corners (TBC).
High temperature would potentially degrade the electricity power, we know electrical cars can suffer from high temp, Monte not in question but other rallyes can lead to such issues.
This being said, we can assume the WRC 2022 will still be very fast and spectacular.
I'm more concerned about the crashes, high current electricity + battery + big crash does not fit together, hope there will be no drama this year.
BEST power
thanks Paco Perez !!!!
Group S rally is back
Good work, but for me the hybrids are not faster than the 2021 WRCs. As they do not have a central differential they are slower in the curves, they are heavier because they have batteries and also they do not have a good suspension development. The only moment that they can be fast is when they activate the hybrid system, but that will happen in some moments of the section. For something to the 2021 WRCs that compete in 2022 they reduce the engine power.
I think over time the teams will start to get used to the new rules and develop technology to make them faster. This is new technology after all, and if they're isn't an agenda to slow them down, they will improve I believe....
Well everybody always wishes for group b to come back. And while I think the best thing about the 80s was the completely free development in regions like aerodynamics, less downforce and more power should be quite the right way for most people?
@@QuinnBoone I think the same as you, as the year 2022 transits, they will improve them.
@@PHHE1 I think the closest thing to group B was last year's cars. But hey, you have to accept current technology, which is not so bad either.
@@FeddeVega The new regs might be the true group B. Considerable more power with less suspension travel and downforce. The 2017 were fast, but also very stable through to the aero. I expect more driver errors with the Rally1 cars. But let's see.
why this race we have global warming stop it!
😂😂😂😂😂
Even if this isnt serious, its a valid opinion against racing. Which is why these cars run on E-fuel and electricity. And yet they sound even better than the plus cars.