Top 10 Sequels That Aren't as Bad as Everyone Says (2010)
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
- In this Classic Cinemassacre Video from 2010, we count down the Top 10 Sequels that aren't as bad as everyone says!
ORIGINAL AIRED: JULY 1, 2010
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I loved the whole Back to the Future trilogy. It's like one whole movie to me
I never realized people didn’t like it. Number 2 if anything has a bit too much going on
Same, it’s all good
yeah for me it's the same with The Lord of the Rings trilogy as well even if say ROTK is better than the others or FOTR or TTT it's still important to watch all 3 in order to fully get the whole story
@@poleon2003 That one too
BTTF 2 isn’t my favorite of the three, but I still like all of them.
Terminator 2 originally had an ending where an elderly Sarah Conner is sitting on a bench in Washington DC. She’s watching her now adult son, Senator John Conner playing with her granddaughter.
The reason they scrapped that ending is because they thought it would be too unrealistic for John to become a senator after having been involved in the incident at Cyberdyne.
@@silvervalleystudios2486 If only they knew that much crazier things have happened. All sort of ridiculous people become politicians now.
The original T 2 ending was the best way to end it.
And the other reason that they scrapped the good ending was money. By using a more uncertain ending they were able to leave it open for all of the unnecessary further sequels that we've gotten in the three decades since.
“Is that how we critique movies nowadays? By just ranting and nitpicking the individual moments we hated?”
This video was originally from 2010. If only James knew how true his words were back then.
I got a good laugh too, even if I do agree that the best critique is picking apart the product as it proceeds
Maybe it's overcompensating for the massive defense and slander by influencers and the media? Maybe it's a big grift that people put on because people thrive on negativity? Maybe it's just the norm that we can never return from, who knows really...
nowadays they dont critic a movie if there is actor they love is in it
To me, being born in 83, Ghostbuster 2 was the opportunity to see Ghostbusters in the theater at 6, being the perfect blend of scary, cartoon and comedy. Will always rule in my mind
You are old 😂
Nothing makes me happier than a cinemassacre top 10 video, James, 16 years of watching you and I still love it
me to
another life saved by the bim
This video is like 12-13 years old.
It's from 2010
@@finnylettuce8566 hilarious and original
Ghostbusters 2 will forever reign underrated in my opinion. It's still a terrific movie. The entire court room scene is just as magic as it ever was.
Amen!
As a kid I genuinely preferred the second movie
I think you just like the word “underrated.” Just like so many other people on UA-cam. Ghostbusters 2 was not underrated! It got just the amount of credit it deserved… it was a good movie in it’s own right, but paled in comparison to the original movie. And it was way better than any other Ghostbusters movie that came out after it. So I say again, it wasn’t underrated. I strongly recommend that you go to a psychiatrist and cure yourself of this obsession with inaccurately using the word “underrated” so much
@@nsasupporter7557 I think you should mind ya business on what I write and how I write it. It's underrated. It will always be underrated. It's as underrated as I want it to be. My opinion is probably underrated. From where I'm standing, that's as underrated as it gets. You feel me?
Underrated.
@@ryanwilcox3081 you need to start a cult where you can worship the word “underrated” since you’re so infatuated with it. That might make you happy… you say “underrated” over and over again and masturbate to it
Predator 2 is awesome.
I just didn't like Danny Glover without a moustache.
Better than 'prey'
@@Devilsblood
That film was terrible.
@@anubusx
❄
agreed
"Is that how we critique movies nowadays? By just ranting and nitpicking about all the individual moments we hated?"
*glares daggers at CinemaSins*
Seeing what AVGN said about How everyone reaction to 4th Indiana jones movie is like Me and my friend james reaction to lightyear
Doesn't CinemaSins do that as a joke?
@@Shady-rl8mk they do, but almost every video they will insert one where they seriously elaborate on a nitpick or just laugh at something for 15 seconds, so they lowkey believe everything they are saying.
The crane scene in Terminator 3 was amazing
Bravo! Such a shame most people don't remember how to have fun with movies. It's not about being better than the original it's about revisiting a world with characters and places we love
Ah, I love revisiting classic Cinemassacre. Talk about taking you back to the past. Weird to think this video is as old to us as Super Mario World was to the Nerd when he began the show.
so do i
The fans have already demanded
*"Top ten Sequels" **_part 2_*
This was the video that made me check out Halloween 3 and James was spot on. It’s my second favorite Halloween after the original.
to me Halloween 3 works as it like looking at power rangers turbo we saw the original team left and the next generation took over also Infinity train after tulip storyline there was no need to see her anymore so a new hero took over showing you can alter the staus quo and show people there no need for things to stay the same
The silver shamrock tv toy apocalypse??????????? Its a great film as standalone film for me. The fact that it was an attempt to turn the Halloween franchise into an anthology of unrelated horror films is the dealbreaker for me. It was more suited as a segment on Creepshow.
@@silvervalleystudios2486 to me had John and Debra stayed with their plan Anthology idea and showed people there was no need for Michael to return maybe we would've had better Halloween films than Michael returning every time
I agree. I honestly wouldn’t have minded getting a Halloween Anthology series. If you’re a fan of the OG Halloween perhaps give my crew a shot and check out “You Can’t Kill The Boogeyman” as it’s our sequel to H1 on the same night! 🤟🏽
I was a young teen when Rocky 5 came out. I always liked Rocky 5.
And so did all my friends.
It seemed like the most logical progression in the series. He was too old to fight anymore so it was just logical for Rocky to want to live vicariously through a protege.
Man we used to watch all the movies in a long marathon and we loved all the movies!
For me is robocop 2. Many people trash on that movie because they claim it retcons robocop acepting he is alex murphy during the beguining of the film but they are skipping the point. At the end of robocop 1 he accepts he is alex murphy, that never changes but now in robocop 2 he has to accept that tho he is alex murphy he still will never be able to have the normal life he had before, when he tells his wife ''alex murphy is dead, i dont know you'' he does that to ease her pain so she can be able to move on by herself, to let the past go and have a chance to redo her normal life, something he cannot do anymore. If you check that clip the moment he says ''i dont know you'' you can feel his pain. Besides many people called stupidly unrelistic how a corrupt corporation managed to put down the local goverment and such goverment looks to the local criminal gangs for help at exchange of freedom and power making them into super criminal organisations. Yea...not soo unrealistic now isnt?
Robocop 2 is lousy. And it has nothing to do with either example you mention.
I kind of like Robocop 3
Lol I watched it again last night, still a great movie
To me it has to be book of shadows blair witch project 2 as not only did i see it as the darker take on Scooby doo but also showing and paying respect to people and the fandom for loving the original blair witch movie but also having the cast in book of shadows in the role of a scooby-doo like movie
RoboCop 2 is underrated as hell. Is it terribly flawed? Yes. But it's entertaining as hell.
I might be the only one who truly loves Tron Legacy. Saw it in IMAX 3D and was in awe! It's a great, misunderstood sequel that deserves more love IMO.
I hated that movie so much, I don't even consider it a sequel. It has little to nothing in common with the original 1982 film.
@Lunartat77...I loved it ... I thought it was a great sequel and the last decent movie Disney ever made ..
I love Gremlins 2! In my opinion, it's way more fun than the original. Its persistent over the top self awareness is perfect!
Fun fact Dan Akroyd is obsessed with the crystal skulls
Even has his own vodka based off them
@@GrosvnerMcaffrey Dan Aykroyd deliveres movie exposition in a mesmerizing way that, in my opinion, is unmatched by most actors!
If he hosted a documentary on Crystal Skulls (or, hell… stamp collecting) I’d watch the shit outta that!
And I’m not just saying this because I’m also a Southpaw!
😁👍
Hes obsessed with alot of things supernatural
His crystal skull vodka is the best vodka I have ever had
In Spiderman 3 when Jamison spills the pills over his desk is the hardest I've ever laughed in a movie
*BZZZZ* "Not that one."😂😂😂
I've seen all these movies, except for Psycho 2 and Halloween 3. And I can say that I agree with the choices that the AVGN made when he made this list.
That being said, I wonder if he decided to make an updated version of this list, how much would've changed.
This is Cinemassacre. No games in this video 😉
Halloween 3 is my favorite one.....but I'm wierd I guess
The ending of this video aged so well.
I don't think James makes any content that ages bad.
Yes it has
huh?
@@spacemanmonster23 Media criticism now is mostly just people ranting about specific things they didn't like, without looking at the whole picture, which others flock to
@@mr.person4050 Don't forget with UA-cam now and People seeing things as a golden ticket to get famous than really admitting any fault for not crashing and burning things than seeing any fault in their actions
The lost world was great....and for me it perfectly captures that jurrasic park feeling of being trapped on a Dino island Friday night vibe
I loved watching this list from James and it’s great to see this back up again.
same
True. The audience’s reaction to Indy 4 annoyed me so much more than the movie itself, even back then.
CGI monkeys justified outrage; Cool premise but bad execution.
Screw critics and keyboard warriors. Sequels don't need their approval to be good. Ghostbusters II, Gremlins 2, Psycho II, BTT3, all gems that don't need any polishing.
I like to think that the scene of the manager getting punched by Rocky at the end of Rocky 5 was inspired by the scene of the bad guy's lawyer getting punched by Ka-Kui at the end of Police Story 😄
And the Duke was an obvious ripoff of real life boxing promoter Don King. I'm surprised King didn't sue Stallone.
@@silvervalleystudios2486 interesting
We definitely need an updated version of this covering sequels from the last 12 years considering how many have come out since 2010!
Gremlins 2 and Jordan Peele explaining how it came to be is what i think of whenever I hear about this movie. But Halloween 3 is my favorite Halloween movie, I love it and always will.
Season of the witch will always be in my top ten films. It's a good mix of funny and freaky
A second one of these would be outstanding. So many posters that were shown on screen deserve the same defense.
You just gave me a better appreciation for the Kingi of the crystal skulls.
The little kid in back to the future was signaling he had to pee during filming.
Rocky V came on TV years ago and I gave it a shot. It's better than I expected. I like Rocky going back to his roots and mentoring a new fighter.
me to and I like Rocky 5 to
4 and 5 are actually the only two I'll ever watch.
@@D-Fens_1632 what stuff are you on ?
Heisenbergs ?
Man I missed this list. Been watching Cinemassacre for a long time and it’s always a treat when a new vid releases
16:26 You sure about that James? Could’ve sworn in interviews Matt Stone hated Crystal Skull like everyone else and we all know he’ll frequently use South Park as his soap box.
The Naked Gun was a great trilogy
Compared to sequels nowadays those were rather amazing.
@Spectrum Ace That is my personal opinion. Why, what did the internet say.
@@punawelewele better question when did the internet start talking?
The last great sequel for me is Quantum of Solace. It can be watched back-to-back with Casino Royale as one movie.
Are they? You take the good with the bad, same as it always was.
Like, the last three Halloween movies were cringeworthy, but so were the other nine.
On the other hand, there's the new SW trilogy (at least two-thirds of it), No Way Home, Top Gun, Mad Max: Fury Road, Logan, Toy Story 3, Creed...
Still lots of good stuff to enjoy. :)
@@silvervalleystudios2486 Is that a joke? Quantum of Solace was one of the worst movies I've ever seen...
Updated Sequals List! Whose with me!
When James said that Terminator 3's crane chase was the best action scene from the past decade, I grew 3 grey hairs spontaneously.
Which film Top it ?
It’s weird because the movie is actually 20 years old.
Sam Raimi admitted that Spider-man 3 sucked when he said, “It’s a movie that just didn’t work very well. I tried to make it work, but I didn’t really believe in all the characters, so that couldn’t be hidden from people who loved Spider-Man. If the director doesn’t love something, it’s wrong of them to make it when so many other people love it. I think [raising the stakes after Spider-Man 2] was the thinking going into it, and I think that’s what doomed us. I should’ve just stuck with the characters and the relationships and progressed them to the next step and not tried to top the bar”
@@Dino23968 Spider-Man 3 might not have been the best, but it was still better than the Amazing Spider-Man garbage
James defending Spider-Man 3 makes my heart melt 🥹🥹
Yes, Spider-Man 3 wasn’t the best. But it was definitely better than the Amazing Spider-Man movies, those were trash
@@nsasupporter7557 all 3 of those movies were bad.
@@blunew467 there were only 2 Amazing Spider-Man movies and yes they were bad. Goes to show why they never made a 3rd one
@@nsasupporter7557 I meant all 3 as in Spider-Man 3 and The two Amazing Spider-Man movies. Spider-Man Homecoming and Far from Home were decent, No Way Home was pretty overhyped and not as good as people made it out to be. My ranking is:
1. Spider-Man into the Spiderverse; 9/10
2. Spider-Man 2: 9/10
3. Spider-Man: 8/10
4. Homecoming: 7/10
5. Far from Home: 7/10
6. No Way Home: 6/10
7. The Amazing Spider-Man: 4/10
8. Spider-Man 3: 3/10
9. The Amazing Spider-Man 2: 3/10
Venom: 4/10
Venom Let there be Carnage: 4/10
Morbius: 2/10
@@blunew467 ohhhh wow! Ok, I thought you meant the 3 Tobey Maguire movies. I was just trying to mess you when I said that about there only being 2 Amazing Spider-Man movies lol
The Back to the Future trilogy have always been my favorite movies, so of course I love 3 (just as much as 1 & 2). But I also think Halloween 3 is the best of the series. And yeah Terminator 3 wasn't as bad as everyone says, either.
Lots of people hatin on James, but I still love him. Keep up the fine work my friend. Hate the game not the playa
The sequel to Guillermo Del Torro's "The Shape of Water" was entitled "Fish F%ckers 2: Barely Seagull" and was an underrated gem.
Critics rave "I was up to my gills in suspense"
Guillermo only produced. Swedish director Anel Seaman knocked that 1 out.
Allow me to fix that title...
"Fish FUCKERS 2: Barely Seagull".
Sorry... can't stand censorshit.
Nicely done with the parody name, though. Seriously.
@@thisisnotachannel Sometimes, comments can be removed because of spicy language. I'm no fan of censorship, either.
@@FatNorthernBigot Yeah, I figured that much.
Damned fuckin' ScrewTube...
0:43
The Lost World: Jurassic Park (1997)
1:26
Ghostbusters II (1989)
2:51
Terminator 3: Rise Of The Machine (2003)
4:09
Gremlins 2: The New Batch (1990)
5:24
Psycho II (1983)
6:36
Back To The Future Part III (1990)
7:36
Rocky V (1990)
9:01
Spider-Man 3 (2007)
10:33
Halloween III: Season Of The Witch (1982)
13:00
Indiana Jones And The Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull (2008)
i love how hyper jpegged this video is, now i really feel like im back in the past
I was thinking Ghostbusters 2 before the video began to play. It was still funny.
Leave naked gun out of this police squad and every movie are hilarious
Indiana Jones got the reputation because the public has been so spoiled with Harrison Ford doing movies without much CGI or any effects. This movie really changed it all-
When the Hulkster appears in Gremlins 2 it is awesome
Been a JP fan since 1993 when I was 5. I have always adored Lost World. Great movie. Not as good as the original, naturally, but it’s got its own place.
Little correction on Halloween III.
Halloween from it's inception was originally intended to be an anthology series, like Halloween 2 was never intended to be made. However with the success of Halloween and with a demand to bring Michael back, they made Halloween 2 to kill off Michael so they could then get onto the anthology, hence where Halloween III then comes in. As for after Halloween III, due to the confusion of not having Michael Myers, lead to it's bombing at the box office and the demand for Michael became higher, after that John Carpenter walked away from the series until 2018 when Halloween (requel) was made.
With Gremlins 2 there were actually 2 different versions. The Hulk Hogan one for TV was with tv series etc, the theatre version had movie references ending with a western shootout (with the gremlins) in that part.
Hulk was in the theatrical version. John Wayne was in the VHS release version.
Cool to finally see this. I remember you mentioning it during your Halloween 3 review and I could never find this video. Even on the Cinemassacre site
The best part of Gremlins 2 is composer Jerry Goldsmith gets to stretch his acting chops and has a speaking part.
Honestly my prediction is that once Dial of Destiny comes out I can imagine a trend of people saying "Wow Dial of Destiny was so bad it makes Kingdom of the Crystal Skull look like a masterpiece in comparison" I mean who knows but that's what my prediction would be but honestly I can't wait for a lot of people saying that statement XD
Sadly, it came true. The irony is that I think Dial was solid enough that it made Crystal Skull look even worse.
@@coolnerdlll6053 Yeah the reason why I thought this was because of what I saw with the Star Wars Sequels where some people thought it made the prequels look good
I fucking loved gremlins 2, Gremlins scared the shit out of me as a kid. But gremlins 2 was fun and I loved all the mutated gremlins with super powers made even better when Gizmo goes Rambo mode which is the manliest/cutest thing rolled into one on film, period.
Out of these my favorites are back to future 3 and indiana jones i agree alot of these arent bad at all pretty good actually just following up classics isnt at easy as some think..
I don't know all of those were great sequels I enjoyed them all. Great list James. I hope you have a happy and prosperous New Year 2023 bro!🎉
The problem with Ghostbusters 2 is that the cartoon used up all the A+ material for storylines. By the time the sequel came out we got a B- experience. Just my two cents.
Who said Psycho II was bad? That movie is a minor miracle.
Happy new year everyone
Alien 3 all the way.
I saw it when it came out in theaters and still liked it even though it wasn't as action packed as the last one.
The horror fan in me liked the bleakness of the setting.
I was only about 10 or 11 when it came out if I remember correctly.
@@davidcatlett4052 that's awesome. I wasn't born yet but I wish I had seen it in cinemas. It's my second favorite of the series.
That's another one that gets kind of a raw deal. Yes, it doesn't have quite the spectacle of Aliens and retreads some of the ground of Alien. And the creature effects are a little dodgy in places. But as a stripped down, "back to basics" film about a isolated group trying to survive being locked in with the monster it's tone, atmosphere, and style do work. And though it's a little heartbreaking, it does bring Ripley's story what, honestly, was probably its best logical conclusion. Giving her some closure and peace by the end.
It's nothing we haven't really seen before, but at least it does well.
@@steampunker7
Yeah it also made the alien intimidating again. They were a threat in aliens but they were way easier to kill and often just ran into gunfire.
Honestly I've always liked kingdom of the crystal skull. It's not my favorite of them but it was enjoyable and the hate it got kinda made me like it a bit more if anything lol.
I’m wondering where that old Rambo a thon cinemassacre video went, I can’t find it on the og website either
"Think for yourself" is an excellent advice. Especially in the time we are currently living in. Merry christmas, James : )
How anybody can see "Gremlins 2" as bad is beyond me.
It's a masterpiece!
I have never commented on anything you do but after 17 years I loved all these sequels......I have played games all my life.....and watched all your videos.....it has been nice to watch someone with the same opinions as me.....
Thanks for uploading this! I love this countdown
Prometheus got pummeled because of just 2 scenes as well, but it's a great sequel. The toxic nitpicking has only gotten worse in the years after this video.
I never seen it but many claim Alien Covenant is worse
Oh, Covenant is a hot pulpy mess, but still enjoyable and very goodlooking. 🙂
That the thing Most people On IMDB or Rotten tomatoes think they are doing a review or making a difference even know they are seeing things as a golden ticket or never stopping to think if it will backfire on theme
Spiderman 3 suffers from over-management - The producers being micromanaging. Not fan-appeasement.
@Spectrum Ace
Way to miss my point 🙄
@Spectrum Ace
I literally didn't speak ill of the movie, nor do you understand what I'm saying about fan-appeasement... did you watch the video and listen to what I'm responding to?
You just became my favorite reviewer for sticking up for Rocky V and Ghostbusters II. Then you dropped Spider Man 3... which I begrudgingly agree with but that almost made me laugh.
I read somewhere that the gesture the kid is making in BTTF3 is a sign to the director that he had to pee.
Fun fact: in Halloween 3, originally they were going to have children screaming but it was deemed as to dark
I liked Gremlins 2 MORE than the original when I was a kid... now, as a 41 year old man (child), I appreciate the original more. But I still love both... especially the "Gremlins Main Theme"... when the Gremlins join in on chorus...
Nyah nyah nyah nyah, nah nah... nyah nyah nyah nyah, nah nah... nyah nyah nyah, nyah nyah nah nah nah nah!
All time classic film theme!
Oh yeah... Wienstien's company (uhh... Dimension?) has actually rebranded their "Halloween trilogy", with the exception of H20, anyway... so that they are now numbered as follows:
"Halloween 6 , The Curse of Micheal Myers",
"Halloween H20: 20 Years Later", and finally
"Halloween VIII: Resurrection". These are now the official names of these movies.
And yes... they use Roman Numerals for "Resurrection", while using a regular ol' number for "Curse of Michael Myers".
I guess were just lucky they didn't change the name of "H20" to "Halloween 7: H20"...
The kid at the end of BTTF 3 was signaling the director that he had to pee....
After seeing this was an almost 13 years old video I thought they Sequels in the Top 10 were gonna feel outdated but no, I think most or all of them are still relevant today.
I like Halloween 3: Season of the Witch. BUT, it should've been Halloween 2. They shouldn't have made a w parter on Michael Myers then started an anthology
Who disapproves of Gremlins 2? Let me at 'em! Also, who disapproves of Back to the Future 3? Let me at 'em!
Does this video look like it's stuck in 240p for anyone else? I have it at 1080, but it's still a blurry mess.
I have no doubt that The Dial of Destiny (ugh) will make The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull look like a masterpiece in comparison
Thays a good possibility. They should've stopped at 3. It was my favorite and an instant classic! R.I.P. Sean Connery
Doubt it. James Mangold is an awesome director and the bar is not very high with Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.
Wait for indiana jones 5 to come. After that ones out, you'll see a ton of people saying they prefer KOTCS lmaoo
I love revisiting classic Cinemassacre and the ending of this video is good
I like Terminator 3 a lot. Its ending scene is chilling and dark.
Kind of made me upset. Miles Dyson sacrificed himself for nothing. Judgement day still happened.
Spider-Man 3 was definitely overlooked at the time. Even though I loved it and was only 6 years old, I still think it's good and pretty solid despite it's flaws.
In his review of the film itself, I do agree it was best not to make a 4th film (for the most part). However, after watching No Way Home, there could be hope for seeing Tobey (and Andrew) again either on another MCU Film or a Solo film.
I'm not sure I would want to see either Tobey or Andrew as their respective Spider-Men again: It was wonderful to have them come back after so many years, but I'm afraid any further appearances could undo the happy endings they both got. I think it'd be best to let our last memory of their characters be one where they're happy and content, unlike so many other legacy characters Hollywood has mangled and cast out.
@@Leprechaunproduction That's a legit point!
@@Leprechaunproduction agreed, even though Maguire was the best Spider-Man. He’s too old for the role now
Wow James saying do we nitpick and critique every single scene or should we judge by the overall picture and that's pretty much all the spoiled kids crying about video game and movies nowadays. I say this to myself every time I see a crying 12 year old online.
I love these classic cinemassacre videos❤
Ghostbusters II is awesome
Indy 4 really isn't that bad, neither Spiderman 3. I think the Transformer squeals aren't bad either, even 4. You just need to be in the mindset of laughing at it rather expecting an actual movie. I mean nothing can beat a transformer where his face turns into a gun...
I agree with most of what you said. A lot of these are good movies.
Great video!
After seeing number one I wonder what your thoughts will be on the new Indiana Jones flick will be.
I think Mangold with give it a great revival. Hes a very underrated director.
Wow it's amazing how much the video quality evolved from 2010 to our present time.
Rocky II + Rocky V = Rocky VII “ Adrian’s revenge!”
I hope James remakes this list, with all the sequals that have come out in recent years, It would be perfect.
In my opinion, which is worth fool's gold, Halloween I and II is one really big movie what we call today a mini-series. Together they make Halloween I. Halloween H20, with Laurie attempting to run rather than fight, is Halloween II and finally realizing that even running cannot hide from The Shape, the three part "mini series" (2018-2022) makes Halloween III.
The issue with Terminator is you can redo the movies forever.... cause it plays heavily off the time paradox because as soon as skynet finds out the humans went back in time then goes back in time itself. It literally a never ending war. What we need is a movie from skynet nuking and then the human survival till john conners father gets sent back in time and then after to set a new time line.
great review
I was obsessed with Jurassic Park 2 when I was a kid
Old cinemassacre videos are peak comfy.
I don't count Season Of The Witch as a sequel.
I thought the mastermind in Halloween 3 was a witch. Or a warlock. But I think it's a great movie
It's my favorite one....that and the original
He is a witch. An OG Celtic witch.
There's no such thing as a warlock. Society thinks it means "male witch," but a male witch is just a "witch." "Warlock" comes from a Celtic word that means "liar." So if someone claims they're a warlock... they're telling you the truth. :)
Cant believe i haven't seen this yet.